Trades (Part II): Should Hawks deal Josh for point guard?
Josh Smith had two offensive fouls and missed three three-point shots in fourth at Milwaukee.
(It’s trade talk Thursday. For Part I on the Thrashers, click here.)
There were few secrets about the Hawks going into this season.
We knew they overpaid for Joe Johnson but management felt his scoring couldn’t be replaced. We knew Al Horford made the All-Star team as a center but he would be so much better at power forward. We knew Josh Smith could be either the most dominant player on the floor or a complete pill, depending on the week, or the game, or the moment.
Here’s what we didn’t know for certain: Could Jeff Teague be an adequate replacement at point guard, since it had become apparent that Mike Bibby’s 32-year-old legs turned to linguini last season? The answer right now is no.
New Hawks coach Larry Drew has done an admirable job this season, steering the team to a 29-17 record despite several injuries and bringing a new philosophy to the offense. But unless the Hawks have a floor leader up top running the offense, they’re probably not going very deep in the postseason again.
This is when we come back to the issue of whether it’s time to change the look of this team. It’s not going to be at center because there just aren’t many good ones. So that means trading Josh Smith for a point guard.
Forget trading Horford, who’s the Hawks only universally embraced player. Forget trading Johnson, who makes too much money. That leaves Smith, who on some nights looks like he finally has arrived and on other nights looks like he doesn’t get it and will never get it — like Wednesday in Milwaukee.
Chauncey Billups would take charge for the Hawks.
The Hawks blew an 11-point lead by allowing the NBA’s worst offensive team (the Bucks) to score 34 points in the fourth quarter. Smith was the biggest problem. He had two offensive fouls and was one for six from the floor. He missed three three-point shots. Why did he even take three three-point shots?
It would be great if general manager Rick Sund could somehow swing a deal for a take charge point guard who simply would look at Smith waving his arms in the corner, laugh and then look in the other direction and give the ball to someone else. But the Hawks don’t have that leader right now. The two best candidates who could help this team likely require dealing Smith in a trade: Denver’s Chauncey Billups — not the Nuggets’ Carmelo Anthony, as rumored, because he’s a scorer and doesn’t fit what the Hawks need – or Phoenix’s Steve Nash.
Billups is 36 and Nash is 34. They’re old. But either would far exceed the three-headed monster of Bibby, Teague and Jamal Crawford (a terrific scorer but not a true point). Billups or Nash also would give the Hawks a couple of years to either develop Teague (if they still believe he can be developed) or draft somebody else to develop.
When asked about Teague, Drew admitted, “I had hoped he would be further along. So we’ve had to go with what’s been good to us. Mike is up there in age but he’s still been pretty productive.”
Drew said he’s resting Bibby enough that he’s not overly concerned about the player wearing down in the second half and in the postseason. When asked about defenses breaking down the Hawks, he said, “It does start [at point guard], but most of our breakdowns on top will be off the pick and roll. … From a breakdown standpoint, it’s certainly the head of the snake for us. We have to have ball containment. But that’s true with everybody on the perimeter.”
The NBA trade deadline is Feb. 24. Will Sund act? He never publicly discusses his plans (or sometimes even general thoughts) on the roster. But he is, by nature, deliberate. He doesn’t do things quickly. He doesn’t have a reputation for being real proactive. So it’s debatable whether a Smith deal would be seriously explored.
Also key: Hawks ownership always has been a big Smith fan, and believes he carries marketing value.
If Sund can make a deal for a point guard without trading Smith, great. The expiring contracts of Crawford ($10 million) and Maurice Evans ($2.5 million) have some trade value. But this team needs more than a Band-Aid at point guard. It might be time for a makeover.
By Jeff Schultz
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EARLIER: Trade focus (Part I): Thrashers need help but will they get it?
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201 comments Add your comment
Paul
January 27th, 2011
3:02 pm
So who would play the 3/4?
JSS
January 27th, 2011
3:09 pm
Who is going to keep teams from going Phi Slamma Jamma on the Hawks if you trade Josh Smith? This team’s problem has always been perimeter defense mitigated by having a player who at least challenges people coming to the rim.
The Hawks limited trade value is on the outside… If you deal Smith or Horford, all bets or off in terms of the defense…
matt r
January 27th, 2011
3:09 pm
No discussion of Marvin; would he get us anything decent in return?
JSS
January 27th, 2011
3:10 pm
“all bets or off in terms of the defense”
JSS
January 27th, 2011
3:11 pm
Should be “all bets are off in terms of the defense”
Cp8
January 27th, 2011
3:11 pm
Jeff, Thanks for the multiple pieces today. Both are excellent.
Love Josh, but I’m at that point where I think the Hawks are better off moving him….
TS
January 27th, 2011
3:13 pm
Yet another reminder why we should never forgive the Hawks for drafting Marvin and Sheldon Williams over Chris Paul and Brandon Roy. I was upset about those moves even back when I assumed Marvin would become a star, which he definitely is not. What’s Mookie Blaylock doing these days?
MaxxHawk
January 27th, 2011
3:18 pm
Are you kidding me? Josh is one of the best all around players in the NBA, entering his prime, getting exponentially better in all areas of his game, and you want to trade him for Chauncey Billups? This article is asenine
Why is Josh Smith Shooting J's
January 27th, 2011
3:23 pm
Josj Smith blows
Cp8
January 27th, 2011
3:30 pm
I’d take Chauncey and Nene for Josh RIGHT NOW.
EW
January 27th, 2011
3:30 pm
MaxxHawk..exponentially better? If that were the case he wouldn’t ever shoot threes.
STRETCH
January 27th, 2011
3:36 pm
JSmith for Billups/Nene….ANY DAY!!!!
JoeMamaWas
January 27th, 2011
3:37 pm
Josh is excellent with increased upside and one of our best interior threats on defense. Getting rid of him only makes us worse. Any trade should improve us and not hurt us. Getting an older point guard with an expiration date only puts us at further risk of getting worse and back to potential rebuilding mode when the old guard’s skills go down or his contract expires. This is a no go from the get go.
Word
January 27th, 2011
3:38 pm
Love Josh….but he is taking us no where. Love the highlights too, but hate the complaining that I would give up the highlights and give up Josh for a leader no matter what position ( a point would be dope though).
jp
January 27th, 2011
3:43 pm
Josh and Bibby for Billups and Nene
jp
January 27th, 2011
3:44 pm
If only Josh would stop shooting long jumpers this team would be better off
Halsey
January 27th, 2011
3:45 pm
The Hawks don’t have a championship front line as it is. They sure won’t have one without Smith. How many teams win a championship without at least one 6′10 or taller All Star on the front line? Zero. 6′9 Al Horford at center is a problem as it is. It will be a bigger problem without a quality power forward. The Hawks need to find their 6′10 or bigger All Star.
jp
January 27th, 2011
3:48 pm
how about Josh, marvin, bibby for Nene, Billups and JR Smith
allan in texas
January 27th, 2011
3:49 pm
I believe that you would have to get a little more than Mr.Big Shot for Josh Smith. Do you agree Mr. Schultz?
jp
January 27th, 2011
3:50 pm
you can’t start Josh, Horford and another player on the same lineup. There’s not enough scoring in that lineup even with Joe and Bibby
bill
January 27th, 2011
3:56 pm
JS one of the best players in the NBA…puhleeze!!!!! Last night’s collaspe against the toothless Bucks (without THEIR 2 best players) says it all.
Josh was a winer in AAU ball, and he still is…he needs to go to a proven team and coach that will keep him in line. But ASG loves him, so don’t hold your breath for a trade. The usual post-season nothing on the way…
GT Alum
January 27th, 2011
4:00 pm
A few points:
1) For everyone criticizing Josh taking 3 point shots, the only players on the roster that have a higher shooting percentage behind the arc are Jordan Crawford and Bibby, and he only hoists about 2 a game now. His 3 point shooting isn’t killing us.
2) Even in last night’s game, he had 11 boards and 3 blocks. This year, he’s averaging almost 9 RPG, 3.4 assists, over a steal a game and almost 2 blocks per game, in addition to 16 points per game. He provides the Hawks so much more than scoring. Trading Josh for a PG would just be filling one hole by creating another. What’s the Hawks front line look like then? Marvin-Horford-Collins? Yeah, the back court would be stacked, but you think a team with that front line is going to make noise in the playoffs? Or do you move JJ to the 3 and let Bibby and Nash/Billups play together in the back court? Because you’ll also have a hard time finding enough minutes for Bibby, JJ, Crawford and Nash/Billups if you play all of them at the guard spots.
3) So you want to trade a player who’s under contract for 2 more years and who the Hawks have Bird rights for a player who might only play 2 more years? Doesn’t seem like a smart move for the future of the Hawks.
CJ
January 27th, 2011
4:01 pm
The Hawks are playing well this year. A road loss doesn’t mean we should start tossing around trade ideas.
Trading Jamal’s expiring contract would take away tons of points from this team. Who is going to step in and give you that production? He gives us 10 more wins a season.
Have you ever watched a Hawks game when Josh Smith has been out of the lineup? We get owned in the paint (more so than usual).
Bibby is doing just fine this year and in some cases has been a difference maker shooting. This Hawks team is more complete than any team we’ve seen in the Woody era and I’d like to see the season play out.
SOUTH GA DAWG FAN
January 27th, 2011
4:03 pm
the hawks were still in it last night with 20 something seconds left and josh is the one taking the 3 Hmmm.
Kevin Willis always thought he could shoot the three too.
Art Vandelay
January 27th, 2011
4:09 pm
The more frustrated Josh gets over the course of a game, the more he loses his focus, which causes him to take dumb shots and sulk, which causes him to get frustrated, which causes him to lose focus, which causes him to take dumb shots and sulk, which causes him to get frustrated, which causes him to lose focus, which causes him to take dumb shots and sulk, which causes…and on and on.
Eventually, we end up with a complete meltdown like we saw in the 4th quarter last night. He also gave up an uncontested layup because he had his back turned to the play. All that said, when his head is in the right place and he’s playing within himself, I don’t know of another player that can take over a game as quickly or as forcefully as he can.
No thanks to a trade for Chauncey Billups, and I’m against trading him for Nash unless we’re getting more than one player in return. A one-for-one that nets us a PG with 1 or 2 productive years left isn’t worth it.
atldeville
January 27th, 2011
4:09 pm
alas , as has been pointed out , when the hawks chose to pass over those point guards in the draft and build around the forward position they set themslves back at least a decade . i hate smith’s game, but the lack of inside help for horford negates moving him. the only solution IS a younger take charge point guard.
PMC
January 27th, 2011
4:11 pm
No, don’t trade Josh for ANOTHER aging point guard.
Unless it’s Chris Paul, don’t even freaking discuss it.
CJ
January 27th, 2011
4:11 pm
If you think you’ve seen a headcase, see what would happen if JR Smith came here.
Also, maybe we can get Childress back in a Nash deal.
PMC
January 27th, 2011
4:12 pm
They would be better off tanking it and trying to draft the right PG.
This is just what we get for the sins of the draft (Marvin….Shelden)
Jeff Schultz
January 27th, 2011
4:12 pm
JSS — No question Hawks would take a hit defensively inside.
Smitty
January 27th, 2011
4:13 pm
Jeff, sometimes I just can’t believe how little you know about sports. Thank GOD no one would ever hire you to run a team!
Jeff Schultz
January 27th, 2011
4:13 pm
Matt R — No discussion of Marvin Williams because you’re not going to get anything/much for him.
Jeff Schultz
January 27th, 2011
4:13 pm
CP8 — Thanks.
Jeff Schultz
January 27th, 2011
4:14 pm
TS — Memories of the Chris Paul thing will live on at least until the Hawks have a a strong point guard.
Jeff Schultz
January 27th, 2011
4:15 pm
MaxxHawk — Josh certainly is one of the best all-around players in the NBA — when he wants to be.
Jeff Schultz
January 27th, 2011
4:17 pm
JP — Yes. If only.
FunkyBobbyJ
January 27th, 2011
4:18 pm
Trading Josh for Chauncey is ridiculous, but Schulzy is right that we are desperate for a point. We should be pushing the ball up the floor like nobody’s business. Bibby is a decent shooter, but horrid on defense. I think that we are just going to have to go with what we got until next year. And, you gotta play Teague enough to know whether or not he is your guy. Marvin is virtually untradeable right now. Al is fine at the 5, there are almost no true centers in the league – he is a tough matchup for big centers when he has the ball – so chill on moving Al to the 4 spot. This is your team for 2011. Now let’s whip the NY Bricks on Friday night.
Jeff Schultz
January 27th, 2011
4:18 pm
Allan in Texas — I would think you can get a lot for Josh.
Jeff Schultz
January 27th, 2011
4:19 pm
CJ — I’m not basing this trade thought on last night’s loss, even though I did reference the game.
Jeff Schultz
January 27th, 2011
4:20 pm
Smitty — Good argument.
DawgBoi
January 27th, 2011
4:20 pm
This is the trade we need:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6fxo7nl
steve brown
January 27th, 2011
4:21 pm
Nash is 37 this Feb and Billups is 34 later this year. I’m with CP8, Billups and Nene. What about Kaman from the Clippers? Much of Smiths number’s will be absorbed by others, particularly Horford, once the un-smooth is moved!
Fish Bisch
January 27th, 2011
4:22 pm
Go Hawks
O'Brien
January 27th, 2011
4:23 pm
GT Alum,
Have you looked at Josh’s trend?
November: 51% from the field, 35% from 3
December: 46% from the field, 39% from 3
January: 41% from the field, 32% from 3
I don’t know if his knee is bothering him, or if it’s because he is spending more time at SF, but he is not the same shooter he was earlier in the season.
He needs to realize that, and adjust his shot selection accordingly.
DawgBoi
January 27th, 2011
4:23 pm
Josh Smith is our best rim defender…
We need Josh Smith..
El Bravo
January 27th, 2011
4:23 pm
The only way I trade Josh for Chauncey is if we get Nene back in return. We would have to include Jamal Crawford and expiring contracts in the trade but it would give us the roster we desperately need. Who knows, Denver may be just desperate enough to keep Carmelo to wing such trade..
jg
January 27th, 2011
4:23 pm
don’t like trading smoove either–but he has no b-ball i-q. down 94-90 and still in the game last night and he jacks a three out of a timeout. is that the play we drew up. horford drive hard to the basket and kick. i don’t mind that as long as the kick out is to bibby, jamal or joe…josh has to realize that in that and in most of these situations it should be in his best interest to get his butt crashing the boards for a put back and maybe a foul. stupid decision on his part–and he continues to make them.
i think you have to get a lot more for josh than just chauncey. it has to be nash and lopez..billups wouldn’t be an upgrade too much from bibby. bibby is the true coach on the floor and gets us into whatever it is our offense is. without him the game last night-the offense looked lost–teague looks to be a bust unfortunately–so basically we’re in between the rock and the hard place. i can live with mike bibby on offense–but neither him or teague can guard anyone–can we not play zone. we tried it last night for one possession and some how we found a way to leave their best shooter wide open for a corner three. it’s called identify the other teams shooters guys–you don’t have to double everyone–a lot of these teams are horrible perimeter shooting teams and the bucks are one of them. the 4th quarter was a joke!
i can’t figure out how this team can go from so good to so bad or vice versa from quarter to quarter–so jeckyl and hyde it makes me sick…
herm
January 27th, 2011
4:24 pm
C’mon people, if u do not see that Josh is probably the most valuable on the team, u are not good at knowing what it takes to win. Josh is our “d” and when he is not playing well, it shows. Yes he has some faults, but I always look at the positive, If not for him we would be terrible. Why all the Josh trade talks, we need to get rid of the dead weigh like Marvin, Bibby and all those dead beat centers we have. Management need to look at the getting Nash and why did they let Shaq go? Nash will upgrade the team because he knows who to pass it to. I saw a play in the Mil. game that puzzled me, JJ was driving the lane and appeared to have a open 10 ft’er, but he passed to Josh on the 3 pt line.Why? No leadership.
steve brown
January 27th, 2011
4:24 pm
According to the NBA trade machine Kaman for Smith works. Gives us a true center, frees up Horford, and gives Marvin a chance.
For Real
January 27th, 2011
4:25 pm
I would like to see the Hawks run this lineup for a while:
PG: Joe
SG: Marvin
SF: Josh
PF: Al
C: Collins
I would like to see the Hawks work on this trade between the Hawks, Lakers and Pacers:
Hawks Get:
Bynum
Blake
Granger
Lakers Get:
Josh
Zsa-Zsa
Pacers Get:
Bibby
Evens
St. Bernard
January 27th, 2011
4:26 pm
I’d give anything for Paul. I would imagine that if Nash really came, that Marvin would become an all-star by the time Nash retired. Honestly, I might like to see Nash give us a shot at winning it all for two or three years than to keep hoping that we get a pg before the “core group” gets to old.
O'Brien
January 27th, 2011
4:28 pm
Josh’s defense is usually good regardless of his offense, but sometimes he pouts and whines too much (like last night when he was busy whining to the ref, so he didnt see 5′5″ Earl Boykins sneaking in for a bucket), and his shot selection is horrible at key moments.
I am a Josh Smith fan, but his inconsistency is maddening at times. He is young and talented, and with the right coach (not LD or Woody), I think he would improve even more.
If the Hawks do trade him, they better get a big return, because Josh is the kind of talent that if he ever puts it all together, could make the Hawks really regret trading him.
Jeff Schultz
January 27th, 2011
4:29 pm
Dawg Boi … And why does Phoenix want Marvin and Bibby?
For Real
January 27th, 2011
4:31 pm
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
Jeff Schultz
January 27th, 2011
4:32 pm
O’Brien (and others) about Josh shooting 3s — I really don’t have a problem with him firing them up once in a while. He’s not an awful shooter. But that’s clearly not the strength of his game. I’m opposed to anything that pulls him away from the basket. He needs to be flying to the hoop, crashing boards, etc. That’s his strength.
jfreak13713
January 27th, 2011
4:38 pm
Would hate to see Josh go because he seems to have more upside but the team as it is can’t win in a big time playoff series. I would prefere to trade Joe Johnson and Marvin Williams but nobody will take them so that really does leave only Josh Smith a trade bait? I don’t see the Hawks having the guts to make a big move but we’ll see.
By the way the Hawks are still pretty good team and we can be gratefull for that but with winning comes higher expectations and if the Hawks want their fans to have higher expectations which is what puts people in the seats then they need to seriously consider make some changes that would make them a better playoff team.
Dozer
January 27th, 2011
4:41 pm
Josh Smith is a tease – he plays great against inferior talent, but he isn’t mentally tough enough to lead a team or be a champion. He showed his true colors with his mail-it-in sullfest against Orlando in last year’s playoffs. I’ll take a trade if we can get fair value…….
JohnGTFan
January 27th, 2011
4:42 pm
“For Real”…are you under the assumption that Indiana is brain dead???? The fans would burn the arena down if they got back Bibby and Evans, AND THAT’S IT. WOW.
And let me say to everyone saying Josh is the “D” of the team. I love his energy and athleticism…I’m a big fan of his…always have been…but he’s truly not a “great defensive player”. He’s a great “HELP defender”. One on one defender…he’s average at best. And yes, playing the 3 or the 4, it’s the same, average at best. But when he helps, he’s amazing. IN saying that, I’m not trading him for any old PG, I don’t care if Nene or Lopez were to be included. His value is still ridiculous high. If you’re going to trade him, you better get back serious talent…and I don’t think it’s out there. Just my opinion. I want to see what the “core” lol can do when they’re all on the court together, hopefully for a change, over the next 2 or 3 weeks.
The Real Hawk
January 27th, 2011
4:43 pm
A point guard is needed, yes. However the need was and is a big center or big small forward. An enforcer. We need to know if Teague is another bust as well. That comes with playing him in games not practice.
Rufus1
January 27th, 2011
4:44 pm
I want S.Curry…
GT Alum
January 27th, 2011
4:50 pm
O’Brien -
The consistent decline in overall FG% is what would concern me. I’d be interested to see his shot selection to see if he’s been taking more shots further away from the basket over time. That was one thing I worried about with trying to play Josh at the 3 is that it would inevitably lead him to take more shots from the perimeter.
However, the 3P% isn’t that concerning. The fluctuation is not as severe, and it hasn’t been a steady downward trend.
If Josh is taking more j’s inside the arc, that could be a problem. But, as I said, his 3s aren’t killing the Hawks.
Cp8
January 27th, 2011
4:52 pm
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6avwars
DawgBoi
January 27th, 2011
4:54 pm
Jeff- bc their starting small forward is 38 with no forward depth behind him. Marvin is still young and has potential. Bibby can still shoot and run an offense but more than all of this is they aint winning with what they got now so maybe they go younger. Wishful thinking..
GT Alum
January 27th, 2011
5:00 pm
Josh straight up for either of those guys would not be to the team’s benefit. It would depend on who else is included. Without an actual trade to evaluate though, that means we’re all just throwing out trades that potentially work under the cap. It’s a pretty pointless exercise, unless you’re just working for a way to kill some time at work.
Moe Larry and Curly
January 27th, 2011
5:10 pm
Josh Smith = Andruw Jones
Lazy, Undisciplined, Unreliable
CONservative Johnson
January 27th, 2011
5:18 pm
Did someone actually make the argument that trading Josh Smith would “give Marvin a chance”? How many chances do people think he needs?
We want to give up a player that continues to improve every single year (no matter if some outsider calls him lazy) for a player on the tail end of their career? And some want to do it to give Marvin Williams (who hasn’t shown close to the same level of improvement) yet another chance? Amazing stuff . . .
CONservative Johnson
January 27th, 2011
5:19 pm
Moe Larry and Curly, you mean Andruw Jones who was the best player on the team for the last 10 years that he was here (including and especially in the playoffs)?
Jamaaliver
January 27th, 2011
5:22 pm
Josh Smith = Andruw Jones
PERFECT analogy. Lots of talent, very little discipline.
Jamaaliver
January 27th, 2011
5:28 pm
@CONservative:
Josh’s numbers are actually NOT improving. If anything they’ve dropped the last couple of years. he is now our 4th highest scorer. He’s toppoed out as a 16 ppg scorer.
Horford’s numbers have increased every year though. (Scoring, assists and FG%.)
steve brown
January 27th, 2011
5:31 pm
Kaman (Clipper’s center) is never mentioned by any of you. Am I seeing a racial bias?
the Owl of Prophecy
January 27th, 2011
5:31 pm
Who gives a “rats a$$” about these glanular freaks? They don’t care about winning…only their money!
Najeh Davenpoop
January 27th, 2011
5:40 pm
Neither Billups nor Nash is going to require trading Smoove. The Hawks can probably get either one by dealing Jamal Crawford and his expiring contract, which the Hawks have shown no interest in extending anyway. Considering how abhorrent this team is defensively without Smoove on the floor, trading him for a point guard is not going to make this team significantly better, especially if the point guard in question is Nash (who has always been a bad defender) or Billups (who is old and has lost a lot of the quickness that once made him a good defender).
Najeh Davenpoop
January 27th, 2011
5:41 pm
On the other hand, if you want to deal Smoove for Melo, that is a worthwhile trade provided Melo signs an extension.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 27th, 2011
5:43 pm
“I really don’t have a problem with him firing them up once in a while. He’s not an awful shooter. But that’s clearly not the strength of his game. I’m opposed to anything that pulls him away from the basket. ”
As long as the Hawks continue to use him at small forward in their “big lineup”, he is going to get pulled away from the basket.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 27th, 2011
5:43 pm
“No discussion of Marvin; would he get us anything decent in return?”
No.
GT Alum
January 27th, 2011
5:43 pm
I think his PPG have leveled off partly because of his role on the team. Up until this year, his shooting percentage had been consistently increasing, meaning he is finding ways to score the same number of points despite having fewer shots. His 3 point % has been consistently improving, and his assist to turnover ratio has been improving.
Also, Horford has 16.3 PPG and Jamal has 16.2 PPG to Josh’s 15.9. Josh could make up that difference with a couple of 25 point games. You make it sound like those guys lead him by a substantial margin.
the Owl of Prophecy
January 27th, 2011
5:48 pm
Folks, this is all well and good and fun to speculate; however, as long as the Atlanta Dumb and Dumber Group own the Hawks, they’ll always be fifth or sixth in the division. I’m thinking Jeff Schultz could have come up with a better topic…like “how many of the Hawks care about winning as much as the fans”.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 27th, 2011
5:51 pm
Here are two trades, either one of which would improve the Hawks and have at least a decent chance of being accepted by the other team(s) involved:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4gyywk6 (with the Hawks sending a first round pick to the Suns)
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6kfsh8z (with the Hawks and Pistons each sending a first round pick to the Nuggets and Carmelo Anthony signing an extension)
Najeh Davenpoop
January 27th, 2011
5:51 pm
Here are two trades, either one of which would improve the Hawks and have at least a decent chance of being accepted by the other team(s) involved:
Najeh Davenpoop
January 27th, 2011
5:51 pm
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4gyywk6 (with the Hawks sending a first round pick to the Suns)
Najeh Davenpoop
January 27th, 2011
5:52 pm
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6kfsh8z (with the Hawks and Pistons each sending a first round pick to the Nuggets and Carmelo Anthony signing an extension)
GT Alum
January 27th, 2011
5:55 pm
steve brown -
One concern I would have with Kaman would be that he’s only played in 60 games 1 of the past 4 years. How healthy is he?
The other concern would be he doesn’t appear to be a great rebounder. He’s 7′, but he only averages about the same number of rebounds that Josh does, and his block numbers aren’t as good as Josh’s. I haven’t watched the Clippers enough to really get an impression, but his main selling point appears to be that he’s 7′.
Hawks Making Trades? I really doubt it
January 27th, 2011
5:56 pm
“Will Sund act?”
you always here about “Core players” this and “Core players” that and how they don’t want to trade them and disrupt chemistry and such. So I’m pretty sure they’d consider JS a Core Player and as such I can’t really see them trading him (even if they should in order to take that next step). So yeah, consider me surprised if they trade Josh or really .. if they make any trades at all.
Dawg A
January 27th, 2011
5:57 pm
I so agree with you Jeff!!!! Josh is great one night then average the next! He is way too immature to survive in this league. If we can get a above average PG for him….. let him go!!!!
And Marvin Williams is dead weight! I told my wife to watch him the last few games we have gone to that he has played in and all he does is beg for the ball and he is clueless how to pass it once he gets it!! He has never met a shot he doesn’t like!!!
Great article Jeff!!
gimmeabreak
January 27th, 2011
6:00 pm
Jeff what does “Universally Admired” mean when you are refering to AL??? Code word for he is the only player ” WHITE PEOPLE ” Like?? SMH the more things change the more they stay the same. WOW
niremetal
January 27th, 2011
6:03 pm
So we have a problem defending the point, and one of Jeff’s proposed solutions is to trade for…Steve Nash. The one point guard in the NBA whose defense is universally recognized (by people who, you know, actually watch games) as worse than Bibby’s.
Alrighty then.
JSS – DBHB.
Get Real
January 27th, 2011
6:04 pm
How about draft Chris Paul or Deron Williams instead of Marvin Williams…oh…nevermind.
Triforce20
January 27th, 2011
6:17 pm
SCHULTZ,
Trading for Billups is a TERRIBLE idea. Billups is WAY older than Bibby, that is the wrong direction to go in the age department. Besides that, Billups would treat us like how he treated the Nets rumors…Billups was going to get bought out and go back to Denver. He’s from Denver, he loves Denver so much that he told Management that he was willing to stay even if next year is a rebuilding season. He’s not going to want to play for the Hawks. Doing this trade would be like the Gary Payton trade years back…we’d have to buy him out immediately.
Nash also would not want to play here…he knows all the talk is that he needs to win a championship to validate his career. He’s going to a contender, nothing less. Steve Nash would not make the Hawks a title contender. He ain’t coming here.
It’s probably a better idea to go after a different pg on the Nuggets…Ty Lawson. He looks like he will flourish in a starting position, plus Denver’s power forwards are overrated garbage.
Another target would be Golden State. They supposedly are shopping Curry and Josh Smith would fit right in that offense.
steve brown
January 27th, 2011
6:30 pm
GT Alum-in ‘O7-’08 he was an Allstar and 3rd in blocks and rebounds-he is a true center.
Year↓ Team↓ GP↓ GS↓ MPG↓ FG%↓ 3P%↓ FT%↓ RPG↓ APG↓ SPG↓ BPG↓ PPG↓
2003–04 L.A. Clippers 82 61 22.5 .460 .000 .697 5.6 1.0 .3 .9 6.1
2004–05 L.A. Clippers 63 50 25.9 .497 .000 .661 6.7 1.2 .4 1.1 9.1
2005–06 L.A. Clippers 78 78 32.8 .523 .000 .770 9.6 1.0 .6 1.4 11.9
2006–07 L.A. Clippers 75 66 29.0 .451 .000 .741 7.8 1.1 .6 1.5 10.1
2007–08 L.A. Clippers 56 55 37.2 .483 .000 .762 12.7 1.9 .6 2.8 15.7
2008–09 L.A. Clippers 31 24 29.7 .528 .000 .680 8.0 1.5 .6 1.5 12.0
2009–10 L.A. Clippers 76 76 34.3 .490 .000 .749 9.3 1.6 .5 1.2 18.5
Career 461 410 30.0 .489 .000 .737 8.4 1.3 .5 1.4 11.7
All-Star 1 0 10.7 .500 .000 .000 3.0 1.0 .0 .0 4.0
Ryan
January 27th, 2011
6:41 pm
Jesus, For real. That was the dumbest trade scenario I ever read. Every Laker fan thinks that if there is a big name available that they are going to pick them up in a trade. The strength for the Laker is their size on the inside, when healthy Gasol and Bynum are an impossible tandem to handle. Getting Josh Smith significantly weakens their size up front, not to mention ADDS MORE PAYROLL TO A TEAM 30 PLUS MILLION OVER THE CAP. Also, WHY IN THE HELL are the Pacers trading the best player they’ve had since Reggie Miller and the face of their franchise for Mike Bibby and his 1,000 year old Knees and Maurice “Evens” (It’s Evans, by the way) The Pacers already have two good point guards in Darren Collison and TJ Ford, they don’t need another one. You seriously should be banned from ever using the internet or watching basketball again.
Ryan
January 27th, 2011
6:43 pm
Najeh Davenpoop, have you even bothered to look at the Suns roster? They Carter/Hill/Dudley/Childress/Pietrus…All of which play the position that Jamal Crawford plays. The Suns aren’t trading the face of their franchise for an expiring contract and a mid level first round pick in one of the WORST draft classes in recent history. Not to mention, the Suns picked up an extra first round pick in the Orlando trade.
THINK before you POST. Remember, there are two teams involved in trades, not just one.
Legend of Len Barker
January 27th, 2011
6:45 pm
The Hawks are hilarious. They have had the same issues for 3-4 years now and have done nothing.
Teague – Supposed to be our point guard of the future, but the last two coaches barely play him.
Johnson – Past his prime. Everyone knows he’s the go-to guy in every situation. That’s what killed us in the playoffs last year. So, do we get him help? Absolutely not.
Bibby – He’s so far gone, he’s over a second hill. He was supposed to be a late-season playoff rush addition, not your starter for several years.
Pachulia – It’s sad that he’s one of our better big men. It’s really, really sad.
Josh Powell – Why?
Jordan Crawford – Why waste a pick if you don’t plan on playing him? Is it a rule that the Hawks can only play everyone else’s castoffs? Hanno Mottola got more playing time.
Marvin Williams – Can we finally admit that it was a dumb pick and dump him? He’s not going to get any better.
The Josh Smith-Andruw Jones comparison is quite accurate. Give Josh a few years and he’ll likely be just as fat with a shooting percentage that would translate into the Mendoza line.
hbcuclassics
January 27th, 2011
6:51 pm
Wow! Col. Shultz just wrote we should trade 24 yr. old Josh Smith for 36 yr. old Chauncey Billups! Is Denver going to throw in a 1st rd. pick and rocking chair too?
tony
January 27th, 2011
7:01 pm
Send JS and JT to NJ for Devin Harris(PG) and Johan Petro(C).
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
Draft Keith Benson(C)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekNfbYNNswU
GT Alum
January 27th, 2011
7:29 pm
steve brown -
He’s had 2 good years out of 7. He’s been even more inconsistent than Josh has, and he’s had injury issues. In the year you point to, he only played in 56 games. If the Hawks trade for him, how many of the good years are they going to get compared to how many ok years? And how much is he actually going to be in the lineup?
Maybe if he’s looking for a cheaper contract at the end of next season, but that’s very uncertain production for $11M-$12M per.
GT Alum
January 27th, 2011
7:46 pm
I’d trade for Kaman if we could get the Clippers to take Marvin and either ZaZa or Bibby back, but I doubt they’d do that. I wouldn’t trade him for Josh straight, and trading Jamal for him would probably put the Hawks over the cap next season.
Jon
January 27th, 2011
7:51 pm
for steve nash ALL day..chauncy no thanks….TRADE JOE JOHNSON THOUGH NOBODY WANTED HIM!
BravesFan79
January 27th, 2011
7:51 pm
How about that last play of the game the other night…. kick it out… to SMITH?? For a game tying 3!?? WTF He shouldnt of even been in the game at that point!
heartofdarkness
January 27th, 2011
8:01 pm
Walt Frazier is still around. Him and a box of Just for Men.
Grumpy
January 27th, 2011
8:29 pm
Steve Nash carries far more marketing value than Josh Smith.
honest_abe
January 27th, 2011
8:32 pm
josh can’t shoot from the outside. look at his career numbers not some hot month he had earlier in the season. you don’t go from being a classic brick thrower to a good shooter in a span of an offseason. he’s quite the talent but he’s a head case the hawks can do without.
sure the hawks would lose a shot blocker and an intimidator in the paint but championship teams don’t have captains that choose when they want to play hard. my biggest problem with josh is that he quits on himself and the team when times get tough. also, he’s not young anymore so we can’t use that excuse anymore when he makes bad decisions like shooting a ridiculous jump shot early in the shot clock or leading the break like he’s the poor mans lebron james. the guy needs to go. get something good while he still has some value.
Jeff Schultz
January 27th, 2011
8:56 pm
Dawg A — Thanks.
Jeff Schultz
January 27th, 2011
8:59 pm
Gimmeabreak — Seriously? You’re turning this into a race thing? Congrats, you get award for dumbest comment of the day. No, that’s not what “universally admired” means. Horford’s the only player on roster that everybody agrees is a keeper. Josh is loved by many, disliked by some. Same with Joe. Same with others.
Jeff Schultz
January 27th, 2011
8:59 pm
Triforce20 — Billups is older than Bibby but he’s also 10 times the point guard.
LAC
January 27th, 2011
9:07 pm
Nobody can believe these Atlanta STUPID Group, I have NEVER seen LIARS like this !!!
I hope they ALL GO TO HELL !
SleeplessinAtlanta
January 27th, 2011
9:13 pm
Apparently Deron Williams has stated that he wants to be traded from Utah. Can you confirm this? I would trade smith for Deron in a second.
Big Ray
January 27th, 2011
9:15 pm
Those of you who say the defense will collapse if Smith were to be traded….that’s exactly the problem.
Do you remember how stupid we kept saying it was to depend on Joe Johnson to BE THE OFFENSE?
Well it’s no less stupid to depend on Josh Smith to BE THE DEFENSE.
The Celtics don’t win because they have one or two guys who can really defend. They win because they have an entire rotation that believes in defending as a team.
The Hawks might actually have to trade Smith to help make this happen. If they don’t have to, then fine.
Yes, Smith has other-wordly talent. But he doesn’t bring it every night. Sometimes he doesn’t even bring it every week. This is not the characteristic of a true star. Sorry, but it’s just not. And this is coming from a guy who has been an unabashed Smith fan since we drafted him.
Mike
January 27th, 2011
9:16 pm
Why not Marvin and Bibby … 2 for 1.
Big Ray
January 27th, 2011
9:16 pm
sure the hawks would lose a shot blocker and an intimidator in the paint but championship teams don’t have captains that choose when they want to play hard. my biggest problem with josh is that he quits on himself and the team when times get tough. also, he’s not young anymore so we can’t use that excuse anymore when he makes bad decisions like shooting a ridiculous jump shot early in the shot clock or leading the break like he’s the poor mans lebron james.
So sad.
But so true.
Big Ray
January 27th, 2011
9:17 pm
Apparently Deron Williams has stated that he wants to be traded from Utah. Can you confirm this? I would trade smith for Deron in a second.
Me too…..
Najeh Davenpoop
January 27th, 2011
9:22 pm
“Najeh Davenpoop, have you even bothered to look at the Suns roster? They Carter/Hill/Dudley/Childress/Pietrus…All of which play the position that Jamal Crawford plays.”
First of all, Hill/Dudley/Childress are small forwards and Pietrus is a SG/SF. Jamal is a PG/SG. Jamal’s game is totally different from any of those players. Secondly, Jamal has an expiring contract, which if I’m not mistaken none of those players have.
There have been rumblings that the Suns may trade Nash all season, and if they were to do so, they would be doing it to begin a rebuilding process. Jamal’s expiring deal and a first round pick would give them cap space and an additional prospect going into next season, and if they like Teague that’s two prospects.
This is the way the NBA works. Teams never trade franchise players for other franchise players. When they trade them, they trade them for expiring contracts, draft picks, young players on rookie contracts, and cap space. Is that the best offer they could get for Nash? Maybe, maybe not. Do they even want to trade Nash? Who the hell knows — I certainly don’t, since I’m not some NBA insider. But if they were to choose to deal Nash before the deadline, that would be the kind of trade they would pursue.
Nola Slim
January 27th, 2011
9:35 pm
Dude, must be painful having to write about the Hawks – like somebody cares…
ATL FAN
January 27th, 2011
9:53 pm
YES!! Josh is not a SF, very inconsistent in that position, and he would be best used at PF to develop his post play. Problem is, Al is not a C, and he is also best used at PF. I’d take Al over Josh any day, and given Josh’s recent inconsistent play that has cost us games, we MUST trade him. Deal him for a PG that can run the offense and use Al Horford and swing the ball to an open Marvin…
SteveW
January 27th, 2011
10:03 pm
I like Nash and Billups, but I wouldn’t come close to trading Josh for either one of them.
Nire – Good point about Nash’s defense.
KevinM
January 27th, 2011
10:05 pm
1st LD mistake, making Smoove a captain..now how can you bench him if his game is struggling? And move he and Marvin…2 guys whose potential is going on right now.
Billups should be gettable with Marvin and a 1st rounder. We waste our draft picks anyway.
The easist position to replace in the NBA? Power forward….
Give me one of Houston’s…..Lowry or Brooks…both run circles around Bibby.
Kaman? Laughable…like everyone who pined for Camby…if the Clippers can’t win with both of these guys, what does that tell you about their value? Kaman is a lottery winner…with a salary to match.
Can you say DeAndre Jordan? Making less than 1M this year. I’m sure Sund explored that option already?….(eyes rolling).
Dr. Yale
January 27th, 2011
10:07 pm
Kevin if the Clippers had LeBron they couldn’t win…
bigeasy830
January 27th, 2011
10:13 pm
I would trade Marvin Williams for a good pimento cheese sandwich…..just saying
Air Zaza
January 27th, 2011
10:33 pm
None of these PG’s make us better long term. No point in trading Josh unless that’s address. I rather much rather trade Jamal.
Air Zaza
January 27th, 2011
10:36 pm
None of these PG’s make us better long term. No point in trading Josh unless that’s address. I much rather trade Jamal.
If we can’t get an All Star Center like Bogut or a superstar like Melo or Deron. We get worst and we are stuck in s***. We knew when we resigned Joe it became a need to get a superstar.
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10:57 pm
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roger
January 27th, 2011
11:15 pm
Jeff by far the best article you have ever written! Josh is a disease he leads the league in walking up and up and down the court! If he couldnt jump he would be in professional wrestling pouting and yelling at the official. Josh makes the team worse when he is playing If there was a one on one league he would finall be an all star. He is always open for the jump shot because they hope he will shoot! Please get a team player so we can be sucessful in the playoffs!
JSS
January 27th, 2011
11:22 pm
niremetal
January 27th, 2011
6:03 pm
@ niremetal…
SMDH…
bird
January 27th, 2011
11:26 pm
Im for trading Smith but we would have to find someone to defend the rim, Horford can’t do it. When Smith is not in the game, opposing players go to the hole whistling as they lay it up with ease. Not sure about Billups either, 40yr old PG? Really? well 36 but still, you get the picture.
bird
January 27th, 2011
11:31 pm
Trading Josh for a 36yr old point guard will not help the team defense. The Celtics have defensive minded bigs that thrive on playing defense.
bird
January 27th, 2011
11:35 pm
Please remind me why Woody got fired? Was it because he couldn’t get past the second round? Well I guess LD will get his walking papers this off-season.’
James
January 28th, 2011
12:24 am
Denver Gets:
Josh Smith
Marvin Williams
Mike Bibby
Hawks Get:
Chauncey Billups
J.R. Smith
Nene
James
January 28th, 2011
12:29 am
PG. Chauncey Billups
SG. Joe Johnson
SF. Josh Powell
PF. Al Horford
C. Nene
E43
January 28th, 2011
1:06 am
this trade can only happen if your satisfied with Jason Collins as center in the playoffs. he did do well when he was with jersey but this is a whole different scenario.
Timmy
January 28th, 2011
2:05 am
The Hawks only chance is to go in the tank in the next couple of years, hope and pray to get the #1 pick, and hope and pray that there is a star player available around whom they can build the team. Right now, the Hawks are a middling playoff team that has no shot at a title and is going nowhere fast. Bringing in Billups or Nash won’t put this team over the top. If I could get Carmelo, I would go for it and try to build a team around him. But I doubt he’d want to stay in Atlanta. I wouldn’t. In any event, at least he’d be a star, something Atlanta hasn’t had since Dominique. It’s really sad because Atlanta is a great basketball town and I think would really get behind the team if they had decent ownership that was serious about trying to build a championship team. But, then again, the NBA is really suffers in my opinion because there are only a few franchises that have a chance each year, and there are so many that have never really come close to a title (unlike the NFL).
JSS
January 28th, 2011
7:21 am
Timmy
January 28th, 2011
2:05 am
“The Hawks only chance is to go in the tank in the next couple of years, hope and pray to get the #1 pick, and hope and pray that there is a star player available around whom they can build the team.”
That is crazy talk! We did that already! You just need to make WISE MOVES! There’s only two teams who used the lottery to build a power house: San Antonio (who were constant 2nd rd losers) and Oklahoma City (Seattle)… It has not worked for Charlotte, Toronto, Golden State, New York, New Jersey, and Houston!
We’ve (the fans) have given him (Sund) a grace period given the mess that Billy Knight left him in Free agents, PG, SF, and 2nd unit. But, now is time to fish or cut bait! Rick Sund needs to earn his pay now…
VernC
January 28th, 2011
7:39 am
Enter your comments here
Walker, Texas Ranger
January 28th, 2011
7:59 am
answer, absotively
Geemack
January 28th, 2011
8:53 am
Jeff,
They should only trade Josh for and impact younger player, unfortunately Nash & Billups are to old.
If we could get CP3, D-Will, or Melo for Josh and Jamal I would pull the trigger in a heart beat.
coachx
January 28th, 2011
8:54 am
“Any time you sacrifice principle for talent you lose.”
Fran Tarkenton
That is what the Hawks are doing with Smoove. He is mental midgit with the worst shot selection in the NBA.
Anthony Lee
January 28th, 2011
9:03 am
R u out of your mind u telling me u going to deal a young Josh Smith for 2 old players because of one bad game . The hawks were going for a record for road wins they never did that with the great Mike Woodson and u gone get the same thing u gettin out of Mike Bibby old and slow !!!!
Stephen
January 28th, 2011
9:23 am
Jeff, with Dwight Howard possibly becoming a FA after next season, has there been any chatter about him wanting to come back home to play for the Hawks? and if so, does keeping guys like Josh Smith and Josh Powell around enhance that possibility?
Anthony Lee
January 28th, 2011
9:38 am
Here is the trade everybody should be pushing for Marvin and Jeff Teague for Ty Lawson !!!!!
rm
January 28th, 2011
9:52 am
So you are saying that Bibby is too old at 32 but the Hawks should trade for either a 34 year old or a 36 year old PG? Huh?
WcHaWkSwC
January 28th, 2011
9:55 am
JS i have been seeing alot about the Hawks getting Nash or Billups as pg, well i say for get about it, they do not need some old legs with a year or two left in the tank. Why not go get Chris Paul? I went to espn trade machine and traded MB, MW, Jamal C, and a first round pick for him.
JMS
January 28th, 2011
10:01 am
I could not agree more with this article! Personally josh smith is my favorite player on the hawks, but he is to hot and cold. At times he is throwing down monster dunks and blocking shots five rows into the stands. However at other times he is walking up the court and jacking up threes that he knows he can’t hit at a high %. The hawks need a true point that is a playmaker who can run the offense. Mike Bibby is way past his prime and teague looks like a bigger bust than marvin williams. Nash would bring a ton of attention to the hawks, he would make Joe and Horford even better, and could hopefully help develop Teauge!
Casey
January 28th, 2011
10:22 am
Not going to happen… we might as well be saying “Josh and Marvin for Bosh an Wade”.
VernC
January 28th, 2011
10:22 am
ForReal: While I would personally pick Bynum, Blake and Granger up from the airport, why would Indiana give away those players to get a 40 year point guard and a bench player? If they do, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell them.
Why Not..?
January 28th, 2011
11:00 am
Josh Smith
Marvin
Jamal Crawford
to New Jersey
Devin Harris
Troy Murphy
Travis Outlaw
Damion James
to the Hawks
lazydawg
January 28th, 2011
11:01 am
YES!
jack bauer
January 28th, 2011
11:10 am
Smith and this year’s first round pick for Lawson and Nene. Billups isn’t goig anywhere. He’s from Denver and says he’d on accept a trade to LA.
bob
January 28th, 2011
11:46 am
I think we should trade:
Jeff Teague and Pape Sy and a 2nd round pick for Steve Nash and Grant Hill then trade
Marvin Willams and a second round pick for Elton Brand to play center
C-Elton Brand
PF-Al Horford
SF-Josh Smith
SG- Joe Johnson
G-Steve Nash
BENCH
C-Zaza Pachulia or Jason Collins
PW-Grant Hill
SF-Maurice Evans
SG-Jamal Crawford
G-Mike Bibby
thats a tem that chould make it to the all the way
Joe
January 28th, 2011
12:02 pm
2005 NBA Draft
1. Andrew Bogut, MIL
2. Marvin Williams, ATL
3. Deron Williams, UTA
4. Chris Paul, NO
5. Raymond Felton, CHA
The funny things about this draft are that Deron Williams is never mentioned as being overlooked by the Hawks and Felton would have been better than any PG the Hawks have had since.
Tremaine
January 28th, 2011
12:25 pm
Josh Smith for Chancey Billups? Are you crazy. We should be able to get a lot more than Billups. We might be able to get Carmelo and Billups if we give up Josh/Marvin/Bibby.
JustAThought
January 28th, 2011
12:48 pm
How about Josh and Marvin/Teague to the Clippers for Kaman and Curry…..
JeJe
January 28th, 2011
12:57 pm
LOL LD is resting Bibby enough?
BS.
Bibby has had tons of 30+ minute games this year. Dude played 40 at NEW ORLEANS LOL
Tremaine
January 28th, 2011
1:04 pm
I don’t think the clippers will go for that plus Josh and Griffin play pretty much the same style.
Tremaine
January 28th, 2011
1:05 pm
What do you think about the hawks trying to get Mo Williams for maybe Marvin?
HawkFanFromWayBack
January 28th, 2011
1:16 pm
Pick-up Scottie Reynolds, then you won’t have to get rid of J. Smoove.
Art Vandelay
January 28th, 2011
1:17 pm
Bob, put yourself in the shoes of the Suns or Sixers. Why in the world would either of them go for the deals you’re proposing? You suggest giving up what amounts to a bunch of spare parts and useless draft picks for starting-caliber players.
Solo
January 28th, 2011
1:21 pm
Our main problem is not at the point, but in the paint we need a true big man that complements Al, If all the Hawks funs are watching most of the Hawks games you should understand by know the Hawks are going no where with Josh Smith this guy does notn get it at all and he will never will. We have great players in Joe Johnson and Al Horford and Teague will be a good point guard by next year until than we get get by with Bibby, But we need to trade Josh Smith, Mervin Williams and Zaza. The only time Zaza plays great is in his final year of his Contract. So the Hawks must trade Josh before the rest of the League finds out about him.
Ted M
January 28th, 2011
1:48 pm
The can’t (and won’t) trade Smith for either of those 2 old men.
Ted M
January 28th, 2011
1:49 pm
The Hawks
Ted M
January 28th, 2011
1:50 pm
Its hilarious when posters suggest trading bums for superstars.
Chuck
January 28th, 2011
2:03 pm
I agree with trading Josh 100%. I have nothing against Josh but the fact is he is a MAJOR liability when he plays SF. I do think we have to get a better return than a 34 year old PG.
Jeff Gibson
January 28th, 2011
2:25 pm
The Atlanta Hawks So Far this year have did well, Four Players are in top 1000 For PPG,+ RPG+APG
Combined. They are #26 Al Horford, #28 Joe Johnson, #36 Josh Smith, And #85 Jamal Crawford.
The Rest of Hawks are#141 Marvin Williams, #150 Mike Bibby, #288 Zaza Pachula, #300 Josh Powell,
#311 Jeff Teague, #314 Maurice Evans, #337 Jordan Crawford, #360 Damien Wilkens, #369 Jason Collins, #396 Etan Thomas. Of 438 Players Most of top players get more minutes.NBA.com Sortable Stats.
Others in Top #40 include Pau Gasol, Dirk Nowitski, Lamarcus Aldrige, Steve Nash (although 36 years old), Eric Gordon, Chris Paul, Louis Scola, Raymond Felton, Danny Granger, David Lee, Rudy Gay, Andrea Bargini, Chris Bosh, Michael Beasley, DavidWest,, Kevin Martin,Joachim Noah, John Wall.If The Hawks ever make a trade be sure to get Equal Value or Strike a Good Deal and remember Some of these young Hawks Their Age is a Tremendous Advantage as a Young team. but I say hold onto him , Generally, He’s a Fan Favorite.
DawginLex
January 28th, 2011
2:41 pm
Jeff,
Why waste time dealing with the loser Hawks?
They suck and no amount of trades in the universe is going to change that fact.
On the other hand, you took time out to negatively comment about “The Dream Team”. A group of young men just beginning their college careers who in 2 or 3 years could help UGA win an SEC title.
Maybe if you spent more time looking at the positive side of things that have some sembalnce of reality instead of wasting your time on loser topics, you might get a raise.
whocares
January 28th, 2011
2:48 pm
It the freakin hawks. They never do anything right, nor does any team in this city. One fucin title in how many years. So yeah, who gives a flying fuc.
Sam
January 28th, 2011
3:26 pm
It would be good to keep Smith around for a while, until the Hawks develop some D. What he needs to do is use all of that athleticis and dominate the boards. There is absolutely no one in the NBA that would be able to stop him if he played around the foul box the entire game.
MJC
January 28th, 2011
3:54 pm
Anyone who thinks we need to trade Smoove for a 34+ yo PG doesn’t watch more than 10 games a year. The Hawks play terrible when he is not on the floor.
Personally, I like this lineup:
PG-Bibby
SG-Johnson
SF-Smith
PF-Horford
C-Collins
Play Crawford, Marvin, ZaZa, Powell, and Wilkens/JC2 as the reserves. Get rid of Evans, he takes too many 3s when there is still plenty of time on the shot clock.
DuntaRSucks
January 28th, 2011
3:59 pm
How about a trade for Augustin from Charlotte?
F-105 Thunderchief
January 28th, 2011
4:34 pm
Great young player for 34 or 36 year old point to replace the too old 32 year old point. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
AtlNative
January 28th, 2011
4:56 pm
Let’s face facts…..
The NBA is a STAR driven league. Without a bonafide superstar, you are not going anywhere in the playoffs. As it stands right now, the Hawks are a nice team, will win 50 or so in the regular season, and get bounced from the playoffs. The Celtics (Rondo, Garnett et al), the Magic (Dwight), and the Heat (you know who), all have proven – put a team on their backs superstars.
I say blow this thing up, if you arent built to win deep in the postseason, then what are you doing. As it stands now, the Hawks will not get by 3 (maybe 4 or 5) teams in their own division.
just an opinion
newt258
January 28th, 2011
4:57 pm
I glad somebody had the guts to say something. If Josh takes another 3 during crunch I’ll scream. You don’t think the other team is leaving him open for nothing. Wake up fans I’ll take the half dozen in the other.
athhawk
January 28th, 2011
6:04 pm
Thank you again, Billy Knight, for passing on Chris Paul and Deron Williams and giving us Marvin Williams, who didn’t start in college. And let’s not even discuss those who we may have passed on to draft Sheldon.
Double Zero Eight
January 28th, 2011
6:09 pm
As a previous blogger said, only if it is Chris Paul.
We know that won’t happen.
crabapplejoe
January 28th, 2011
7:47 pm
Just wait and pick Jimmer Fredette in the draft………
alan
January 28th, 2011
9:12 pm
Please stop with trading Josh Smith articles. The Hawks would be stupid to trade Josh. You don’t trade a All-Star type player who you’ve invested 7 years in just as he’s entering his prime.
As far as people in this thread complaing about Josh shooting 3’s. He’s hitting 37.3% of his 3-point shots this year!! For comparison Lebron James is hitting 35.4% of his 3’s this year. Dawyne Wade is hitting 30.1% of his 3’s. Kobe Bryant is hitting 30.9% of his 3’s. Should they stop shooting 3’s also???
It’s obvious Josh has put a lot of time working on his 3-point shot the past 2 years. I have no problem with him shooting 3’s when he’s making 37% of them!!!
alan
January 28th, 2011
9:17 pm
AtlNative
Here’s something to ponder. The last time the Hawks blew up there roster was when they had Mookie and Steve Smith. After the Hawks blew up the roster we where one of the worst teams in the NBA until 3 years ago. There’s no reason to blow up our roster. Are you forgetting we’re only 2 games behind the Miami Heat for 1st place and are 2-1 against the Magic this year.
AtlNative
January 28th, 2011
9:57 pm
@ Alan
Yep, you’re right. We will win lots of games – as I said. Heck, we may even finish in front of the big three. But what I am saying is, that is irrelevant in the POST SEASON.
As an ATL Native, I am tired of teams which are good in the reg season (see Falcons, Hawks, Braves, Thrashers, etc.) only to get blown out in the first round.
Let me ask you this alan, do you think this team has a chance of beating the Heat in a 7 game series? The Celtics? The Magic……..?
So, yes, it might have some growing pains associated with it, but I say do it now, get some real superstars to build around, and lets make a run for something that matters.
Here’s a thought experiment for you, can you name the last NBA champion that didn’t have at least one, and more likely 2 superstars?
just and opinion
Legend of Len Barker
January 28th, 2011
10:11 pm
I just watched J. Smith grab his crotch intentionally after making a 3-pointer and throw a punch in situation that didn’t originally involve him.
Yep. He’s a wonderful addition to the team.
Tim
January 29th, 2011
1:28 am
“Would look at Smith waving his arms in the corner, laugh and then look in the other direction”
Have you even watched this season? Or perform basic research before writing this article? There are doubts to whether plays should be drawn which put Smooth in that position, but there’s no doubt he’s been making that shot this year (Better than JJ, Marv, and Jamal).
CONservative Johnson
January 29th, 2011
8:21 am
Legend of Len Barker says “I just watched J. Smith grab his crotch intentionally after making a 3-pointer”
Sometimes the emotional leader of a team is unconventional. And nobody here can deny with a straight face that Josh Smith is the emotional leader of the team . . .
“and throw a punch in situation that didn’t originally involve him.”
And that’s a flat out lie. Josh Smith was in the middle breaking up the fight and did not throw a punch . . .
jim
January 29th, 2011
8:36 am
Trading Josh is ridiculous. He’s still basically a kid. Think about how far he’s gone since he got here and how much more he can improve. He needs to develop between the ears more and do what he does best. I agree about too many 3’s but he does make a few here and there. I agree that if we had Brandon Roy and Chris Paul we would be in the hunt and not even discusssing Josh. What a boondoggle management made passing up those two players. How about a Marvin Williams for Chris Paul? Ha Ha. Fat chance. JR
steveh
January 29th, 2011
8:45 am
Looking at the team overall, I can see that the team has physical talent, but depends on a lot mentally. You can see lulls in the game, sometimes with the game almost slipping away, until an emotional pick-me-up comes along to get things on track. At this point this may be the type of team the Hawks are. Exactly how this article pointed out, Josh had a poor game against the Bucks, and the Hawks lost. This tells you something. The team DEPENDS more on Josh what meets the eye. On a team that, for the moment at least, plays best on emotion, you do need that spark, and Josh is by far the most emotional player on the team, and his spark has refocused the team when needed. On days when the spark is not there, that is when the Hawks need to look for other ways, or to mature into a more consistent team, a little less dependent on emotion. But when the spark is there, who can say it is not exciting? What was that stat I heard on TV last night? The Hawks are like 22 and 2 when Josh has 2 blocks or more in a game? That is not completely a fluke stat. You also need to look at how this team is marketed. If you want to play on the Highlight Factory tag line, then you need highlights. Given an equal number of wins, would you rather be the “Highlight Factory” or the “Factory”. So sure, the Hawks lulls are frustrating to endure, but it is more than simply building wins. It is building entertainment, fan base, AND wins. So I think there would be value into looking at WHY this team is so dependent on Josh Smith and start from there. Trading Josh Smith would be a mistake in my opinion. There are other ways to look at this team, but fundamentally and emotionally, and gain improvement. It is the difficult losses and the fact that we, as fans, are used to the emotional boosts of HOW they win, that makes the losses stick, and help us gloss over a 29 and 16 record. And who would not have taken that if offered to them at the start of the season! So be smart, and carfully look at the dynamics of all elements of the team, and do not do anything that may get a few more wins, or no more wins, but also lower fan instrest at the same time.
gt
January 29th, 2011
9:02 am
New York’s Felton has looked good this year, with 2 years under his belt, hasn’t he. Go back the last few years and reread some of your and this papers solutions to the Hawks or even your estimation of the existing team and compare it to the reality. The Hawks like the Braves are an unappreciated commodity in this town, while a University of Georgia football team decays in Athens without a smell. Last year the fuss was we could never beat Orlando, we had to do emergency surgery right away or be second class for eternity. No real move was made, and Orlando is no longer our Waterloo. Every year we have made mark improvement though I agree Josh is a pill on occasions and is self absorbed. I think taking the college out of the pro experience either allows the immature to leave early or keeps them in that high school mentality. Just being on a college campus and seeing how the sausage is made in this country has a maturing factor on a player. They start to realize the world is bigger than they are and how they really play in this world. As for the point guard, my money is on the Wake Forest alumni being our man of the future. Notice a majority of the players on the Hawks came from very good academic schools. And their are enough smart mature guys on this team to contain one lost sheep. Hold the cards you have this dog hunts.
Go Hawks
January 29th, 2011
9:03 am
The hawks deserve a lot better from the A$C, jeff and others
Jeff
All you do is criticize the ownership, quite frankly they have done a decent job with the Hawks relatively speaking.
They are the most successful team in town over the last few years yet you spend time getting out of your cave to suck up to Blank or vice versa.
You have totally lost creditability when it come to the Hawks and for that matter the Thrashers (however they better start winning consistently).
Alan
January 29th, 2011
9:03 am
Legend of Len Barker
What game where you watching??? Josh did not grab himself after hitting the clutch 3 at the end of the game. Also Josh did NOT throw a punch, he was the main Hawks player trying to break up the fight. Are you really that blind??
By the way Josh Smith is now hitting 38% of his 3’s this year!!
Alan
January 29th, 2011
9:07 am
Do you know what you call a player who makes 38% of his 3’s?? You call him a good 3-point shooter.
grandmasterflash
January 29th, 2011
10:43 am
Najeh,
You are correct, you don’t have to trade Josh Smith for S Nash. Phoenix has no chance to complete for the WCF let alone a NBA championship this year. So moving Nash the year makes sense, Phoenix has publicly announced they are rebuilding. Carter’s expiring contract is worth 19 million and Hill’s (38 years old) tenure is ending. They are clearing unhappy with Josh Childress and he like M Williams can only be moved as a throw in piece because of his salary. Lopez and Gortat will become the foundation of the Suns. There is no place for Nash in a rebuilding faze. Now is the time to offer a package for him. Actually, The Hawks in the East are only team which need his services and desires a PG. The Bulls, Celtics, and Majic have not need for a PG. The Heat like the Hawks are desperate for one, but they have nothing to offer. The Hawks meet Nash’s desire to move to a legitimate contender and meet Phoenix’s desire for substance in return.
Desirable pieces – Jamal, Teague, Mo, Powell, E Thomas all have expiring contracts along with the Hawks # 1 pick. Phoenix already two # 1 picks, but to move J Childress (30 million/5 year deal) is going to require trading a # 1 pick. Who would take him without it? Jamal and Teague offer not only 12.2 millions in expiring contracts, but auditions for future players. Moreover after the CBA, if their auditions prove successfully, they both could be resigned at a saving.
GT,
Kaman (11.8 million/2 years) has been injuried for the few last years, but he can score and rebound on the offensive end. He is not a great defender or shot blocker, but he’s 6′11” 275 lbs space heater. LAC wants to dump him just like the Hawks want to dump the following players Marvin (7.5 million/4 years) , Bibby (5.7 million/2 years) or ZaZa (4.4 million/2 years). Bibby is probably more desrable because his contract ends next year and Marvin fits the SF need. Both teams get want they need players they want to move, fill needs, and contracts that end at the end of the 2012 season.
Finally, you do not trade Josh Smith until you provide a penetrating/facilitating PG ;and if then, he does not excel you trade him. These trades would give a the Hawks legitimate chance to contend for this year and next. Moreover, Nash and Kaman deals would end in 2012 which allows the Hawks to seriously pursue D Howard.
Paul
January 29th, 2011
11:48 am
He’s got to go! I am sick of watching him gripe to the refs about every little thing!
falconfan58
January 29th, 2011
1:17 pm
Josh Smith is a coaching problem. When he is playing bad the head coach must make the decision to pull him. There are always other players available. But for some unknown reason most professional coaches appear to be afraid to pull a player that is not performing. Cox did this all the time with the braves. Leave the player in until he works it out or until there are no more games to play that year. Coaches are there to make decisions for the team. Keep playing bad and loosing and you the coach will be out of a job-not the super pampered player. Lose of command and control in any area results in failure.
HAWKS FAN
January 29th, 2011
4:06 pm
Doesn’t seem like a smart move for the future of the Hawks. We need aggressive players like J Smoove. Just watching last night game their are no other players that rebound and steal the way Josh does. The talks of trading two of the most strong aggressive players (Josh & Jamal). Is the reason I did not purchase my half season tickets. I really hope this decision is seriously thought through. We need young players !!!!
Also Teague can’t get any better if we don’t play him a little more. How about trading Marvin & Evans!!!!
count_schemula
January 29th, 2011
4:55 pm
Marvin just does not have any real value. We are stuck with him. Josh has value and plays with the flash that gets attention, but I’ve never liked his mental game. He’s as likely to throw a game away as he is to dominate it. I would trade Josh for a PG in a second.
Sideline
January 29th, 2011
6:28 pm
The Hawks do not need an old point guard. They aren’t going to win the championship with Joe Johnson as the leader. Why trade for guys who could hit the old age wall at any time? Play Teague and let him learn on the floor. Look at the other point guards they got better by getting minutes (Paul, Walls, Williams, etc.). Look at Mike Conley of Memphis. He stunk up the place for 2 years and now he is playing well. Sacrafice some wins to develop the Teague. AND PLAY THE ROOKIE. He can get his own shot. Give him minutes. Don’t be fool into thinking the Hawks can win anything this year.
nique
January 29th, 2011
9:08 pm
worst trade ideas eva
Buddy Grizzard
January 30th, 2011
12:54 am
Jeff,
I remember when I had you on 640 GST with Art Mehring prior to the ‘05 draft. I wasn’t following college basketball at the time, so when you predicted the Hawks would take Marvin Williams, it was news to me.
It’s funny because Sekou Smith to this day claims he wanted the Hawks to draft Deron Williams. Wish I had saved my old Clear Channel emails because I can assure you, he was 100 percent on board with drafting Williams based on his “star potential.”
How different things would be now if we had drafted in ‘05 based on glaring need… point guard… instead of perceived potential. Billups and Nash both want to stay put and Josh Smith has more long term value than either. Marvin will never be the star that Chris Paul and Deron Williams are, but he is productive and we have our starting front court signed beyond the lockout.
The trade we should really be talking about is Joe Johnson to Cleveland for Antawn Jamison, Anthony Parker and a future first round pick. Clearly the Hawks are not going to win a title this year without a legitimate point guard. Getting out from under Johnson’s contract should be the only priority. Dan Gilbert is desperate to do something to turn Cleveland around after what happened in the off season. He’s the only possible taker.
HWJ
February 1st, 2011
12:36 pm
Trading josh makes our defense go down hill. Also some of these trades yall are proposing are just dream trades. I love the one where pacers get bibby and evans… that makes a lot of since for them to get rid of Granger to get those players in return… also lakers get josh but have to give up bynum.. you realize they have odom and artest at sf…
Tremaine
February 1st, 2011
1:11 pm
Chris Kaman is on the block.
ASHCAN.
February 1st, 2011
2:17 pm
My response to jeff schits question,HELL NO!
Ry
February 1st, 2011
3:45 pm
Teague is not getting any better. He has had chances to play and he is just mediocre. He is another Acie Law.
Tree Rollins
February 2nd, 2011
3:00 am
Trade Josh Smith and next years blogs will be about “will we make the playoffs” or how the hawks should trade for a defender because opponents are scoring 110 pts a game. I’ve never seen a media group point their finger at one dude so much. Every loss is Josh fault regardless of what anyone else does….a missed three from anyone else is not discussed…..though a guy who is shooting a solid percentage from three point line misses one in a loss and its time to trade him because missed. Its like AJC writers have nothing else to talk about so they say hmmmm lets write about how Josh shoots three’s and we would be better with Chauncey…I promise that would not be a good squad at all. Im not sure you would like the results of getting rid of a guy that does the dirty work for an aging good outside shooter.
J from the A
February 2nd, 2011
11:51 am
Josh Smith for a 30-something year old point guard. The Hawks trade, arguably, their most phenomenal player who still has a lot of upside in order to pick up a great but old PG. This is a joke, right?
Smith for Billups (or Nash for that matter) won’t win the Hawks a championship this year. It will leave a huge hole (depth-wise) at the forward and/or center positions. And it would leave the Hawks in an even worse position long-term wise.
Even the Hawk-hating national media types realize that this is a no-brainer don’t do. (In a recent broadcast on NBA TV, Nash trade talks were mentioned. The Hawks were mentioned as one of two playoff teams that could benefit the most from improved PG play. Then the question came up Josh for Nash. Without hesitation, they all said no. Then the question came up Josh for any other really solid PG. Again, without hesitation, they all said no.)
The ONLY way you consider trading Josh for Billups or Nash is if a starting-quality center or a 6th-man (or better) quality (non-guard) youngster is included. And this extra inclusion has to come without the Hawks giving up anything else meaningful.
flyer
February 2nd, 2011
2:44 pm
Even more teams would be laying in basket after basket as they do when Josh is on the bench full time… While a point guard would be good if you could maybe trade bibbie, Teauge and possibly Marvin or somebody for a great one.. The truth is the Hawks need a good big man a true center who can take up room like the 7 footer they have now but could also rebound block shots and just generally intimidate people….. That would help more than anything…
Donte080
February 2nd, 2011
4:33 pm
Jeff,
Trade our most popular hawk Josh Smith for a washed up Billups or a deteriorating Nash? Have you lost your mind?
RYan
February 3rd, 2011
8:17 am
There seems to be a trend in Atlanta sports that people automatically want to take whatever our best players are and trade them away, so someone else can enjoy them. . .
Hoops
February 3rd, 2011
1:44 pm
What point guard are you going to get? He better be good and have a long future if you are going to trade Josh Smith for him. D. Harris? Why not offer Crawford1 for Harris?
I’m kind of to the point that I don’t want to trade JJ, Horford, Josh, or Crawford1. Who else do we have that would interest other GM’s?