Trades (Part II): Should Hawks deal Josh for point guard?
Josh Smith had two offensive fouls and missed three three-point shots in fourth at Milwaukee.
(It’s trade talk Thursday. For Part I on the Thrashers, click here.)
There were few secrets about the Hawks going into this season.
We knew they overpaid for Joe Johnson but management felt his scoring couldn’t be replaced. We knew Al Horford made the All-Star team as a center but he would be so much better at power forward. We knew Josh Smith could be either the most dominant player on the floor or a complete pill, depending on the week, or the game, or the moment.
Here’s what we didn’t know for certain: Could Jeff Teague be an adequate replacement at point guard, since it had become apparent that Mike Bibby’s 32-year-old legs turned to linguini last season? The answer right now is no.
New Hawks coach Larry Drew has done an admirable job this season, steering the team to a 29-17 record despite several injuries and bringing a new philosophy to the offense. But unless the Hawks have a floor leader up top running the offense, they’re probably not going very deep in the postseason again.
This is when we come back to the issue of whether it’s time to change the look of this team. It’s not going to be at center because there just aren’t many good ones. So that means trading Josh Smith for a point guard.
Forget trading Horford, who’s the Hawks only universally embraced player. Forget trading Johnson, who makes too much money. That leaves Smith, who on some nights looks like he finally has arrived and on other nights looks like he doesn’t get it and will never get it — like Wednesday in Milwaukee.
Chauncey Billups would take charge for the Hawks.
The Hawks blew an 11-point lead by allowing the NBA’s worst offensive team (the Bucks) to score 34 points in the fourth quarter. Smith was the biggest problem. He had two offensive fouls and was one for six from the floor. He missed three three-point shots. Why did he even take three three-point shots?
It would be great if general manager Rick Sund could somehow swing a deal for a take charge point guard who simply would look at Smith waving his arms in the corner, laugh and then look in the other direction and give the ball to someone else. But the Hawks don’t have that leader right now. The two best candidates who could help this team likely require dealing Smith in a trade: Denver’s Chauncey Billups — not the Nuggets’ Carmelo Anthony, as rumored, because he’s a scorer and doesn’t fit what the Hawks need – or Phoenix’s Steve Nash.
Billups is 36 and Nash is 34. They’re old. But either would far exceed the three-headed monster of Bibby, Teague and Jamal Crawford (a terrific scorer but not a true point). Billups or Nash also would give the Hawks a couple of years to either develop Teague (if they still believe he can be developed) or draft somebody else to develop.
When asked about Teague, Drew admitted, “I had hoped he would be further along. So we’ve had to go with what’s been good to us. Mike is up there in age but he’s still been pretty productive.”
Drew said he’s resting Bibby enough that he’s not overly concerned about the player wearing down in the second half and in the postseason. When asked about defenses breaking down the Hawks, he said, “It does start [at point guard], but most of our breakdowns on top will be off the pick and roll. … From a breakdown standpoint, it’s certainly the head of the snake for us. We have to have ball containment. But that’s true with everybody on the perimeter.”
The NBA trade deadline is Feb. 24. Will Sund act? He never publicly discusses his plans (or sometimes even general thoughts) on the roster. But he is, by nature, deliberate. He doesn’t do things quickly. He doesn’t have a reputation for being real proactive. So it’s debatable whether a Smith deal would be seriously explored.
Also key: Hawks ownership always has been a big Smith fan, and believes he carries marketing value.
If Sund can make a deal for a point guard without trading Smith, great. The expiring contracts of Crawford ($10 million) and Maurice Evans ($2.5 million) have some trade value. But this team needs more than a Band-Aid at point guard. It might be time for a makeover.
By Jeff Schultz
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EARLIER: Trade focus (Part I): Thrashers need help but will they get it?
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201 comments Add your comment
Tremaine
January 28th, 2011
1:04 pm
I don’t think the clippers will go for that plus Josh and Griffin play pretty much the same style.
Tremaine
January 28th, 2011
1:05 pm
What do you think about the hawks trying to get Mo Williams for maybe Marvin?
HawkFanFromWayBack
January 28th, 2011
1:16 pm
Pick-up Scottie Reynolds, then you won’t have to get rid of J. Smoove.
Art Vandelay
January 28th, 2011
1:17 pm
Bob, put yourself in the shoes of the Suns or Sixers. Why in the world would either of them go for the deals you’re proposing? You suggest giving up what amounts to a bunch of spare parts and useless draft picks for starting-caliber players.
Solo
January 28th, 2011
1:21 pm
Our main problem is not at the point, but in the paint we need a true big man that complements Al, If all the Hawks funs are watching most of the Hawks games you should understand by know the Hawks are going no where with Josh Smith this guy does notn get it at all and he will never will. We have great players in Joe Johnson and Al Horford and Teague will be a good point guard by next year until than we get get by with Bibby, But we need to trade Josh Smith, Mervin Williams and Zaza. The only time Zaza plays great is in his final year of his Contract. So the Hawks must trade Josh before the rest of the League finds out about him.
Ted M
January 28th, 2011
1:48 pm
The can’t (and won’t) trade Smith for either of those 2 old men.
Ted M
January 28th, 2011
1:49 pm
The Hawks
Ted M
January 28th, 2011
1:50 pm
Its hilarious when posters suggest trading bums for superstars.
Chuck
January 28th, 2011
2:03 pm
I agree with trading Josh 100%. I have nothing against Josh but the fact is he is a MAJOR liability when he plays SF. I do think we have to get a better return than a 34 year old PG.
Jeff Gibson
January 28th, 2011
2:25 pm
The Atlanta Hawks So Far this year have did well, Four Players are in top 1000 For PPG,+ RPG+APG
Combined. They are #26 Al Horford, #28 Joe Johnson, #36 Josh Smith, And #85 Jamal Crawford.
The Rest of Hawks are#141 Marvin Williams, #150 Mike Bibby, #288 Zaza Pachula, #300 Josh Powell,
#311 Jeff Teague, #314 Maurice Evans, #337 Jordan Crawford, #360 Damien Wilkens, #369 Jason Collins, #396 Etan Thomas. Of 438 Players Most of top players get more minutes.NBA.com Sortable Stats.
Others in Top #40 include Pau Gasol, Dirk Nowitski, Lamarcus Aldrige, Steve Nash (although 36 years old), Eric Gordon, Chris Paul, Louis Scola, Raymond Felton, Danny Granger, David Lee, Rudy Gay, Andrea Bargini, Chris Bosh, Michael Beasley, DavidWest,, Kevin Martin,Joachim Noah, John Wall.If The Hawks ever make a trade be sure to get Equal Value or Strike a Good Deal and remember Some of these young Hawks Their Age is a Tremendous Advantage as a Young team. but I say hold onto him , Generally, He’s a Fan Favorite.
DawginLex
January 28th, 2011
2:41 pm
Jeff,
Why waste time dealing with the loser Hawks?
They suck and no amount of trades in the universe is going to change that fact.
On the other hand, you took time out to negatively comment about “The Dream Team”. A group of young men just beginning their college careers who in 2 or 3 years could help UGA win an SEC title.
Maybe if you spent more time looking at the positive side of things that have some sembalnce of reality instead of wasting your time on loser topics, you might get a raise.
whocares
January 28th, 2011
2:48 pm
It the freakin hawks. They never do anything right, nor does any team in this city. One fucin title in how many years. So yeah, who gives a flying fuc.
Sam
January 28th, 2011
3:26 pm
It would be good to keep Smith around for a while, until the Hawks develop some D. What he needs to do is use all of that athleticis and dominate the boards. There is absolutely no one in the NBA that would be able to stop him if he played around the foul box the entire game.
MJC
January 28th, 2011
3:54 pm
Anyone who thinks we need to trade Smoove for a 34+ yo PG doesn’t watch more than 10 games a year. The Hawks play terrible when he is not on the floor.
Personally, I like this lineup:
PG-Bibby
SG-Johnson
SF-Smith
PF-Horford
C-Collins
Play Crawford, Marvin, ZaZa, Powell, and Wilkens/JC2 as the reserves. Get rid of Evans, he takes too many 3s when there is still plenty of time on the shot clock.
DuntaRSucks
January 28th, 2011
3:59 pm
How about a trade for Augustin from Charlotte?
F-105 Thunderchief
January 28th, 2011
4:34 pm
Great young player for 34 or 36 year old point to replace the too old 32 year old point. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
AtlNative
January 28th, 2011
4:56 pm
Let’s face facts…..
The NBA is a STAR driven league. Without a bonafide superstar, you are not going anywhere in the playoffs. As it stands right now, the Hawks are a nice team, will win 50 or so in the regular season, and get bounced from the playoffs. The Celtics (Rondo, Garnett et al), the Magic (Dwight), and the Heat (you know who), all have proven – put a team on their backs superstars.
I say blow this thing up, if you arent built to win deep in the postseason, then what are you doing. As it stands now, the Hawks will not get by 3 (maybe 4 or 5) teams in their own division.
just an opinion
newt258
January 28th, 2011
4:57 pm
I glad somebody had the guts to say something. If Josh takes another 3 during crunch I’ll scream. You don’t think the other team is leaving him open for nothing. Wake up fans I’ll take the half dozen in the other.
athhawk
January 28th, 2011
6:04 pm
Thank you again, Billy Knight, for passing on Chris Paul and Deron Williams and giving us Marvin Williams, who didn’t start in college. And let’s not even discuss those who we may have passed on to draft Sheldon.
Double Zero Eight
January 28th, 2011
6:09 pm
As a previous blogger said, only if it is Chris Paul.
We know that won’t happen.
crabapplejoe
January 28th, 2011
7:47 pm
Just wait and pick Jimmer Fredette in the draft………
alan
January 28th, 2011
9:12 pm
Please stop with trading Josh Smith articles. The Hawks would be stupid to trade Josh. You don’t trade a All-Star type player who you’ve invested 7 years in just as he’s entering his prime.
As far as people in this thread complaing about Josh shooting 3’s. He’s hitting 37.3% of his 3-point shots this year!! For comparison Lebron James is hitting 35.4% of his 3’s this year. Dawyne Wade is hitting 30.1% of his 3’s. Kobe Bryant is hitting 30.9% of his 3’s. Should they stop shooting 3’s also???
It’s obvious Josh has put a lot of time working on his 3-point shot the past 2 years. I have no problem with him shooting 3’s when he’s making 37% of them!!!
alan
January 28th, 2011
9:17 pm
AtlNative
Here’s something to ponder. The last time the Hawks blew up there roster was when they had Mookie and Steve Smith. After the Hawks blew up the roster we where one of the worst teams in the NBA until 3 years ago. There’s no reason to blow up our roster. Are you forgetting we’re only 2 games behind the Miami Heat for 1st place and are 2-1 against the Magic this year.
AtlNative
January 28th, 2011
9:57 pm
@ Alan
Yep, you’re right. We will win lots of games – as I said. Heck, we may even finish in front of the big three. But what I am saying is, that is irrelevant in the POST SEASON.
As an ATL Native, I am tired of teams which are good in the reg season (see Falcons, Hawks, Braves, Thrashers, etc.) only to get blown out in the first round.
Let me ask you this alan, do you think this team has a chance of beating the Heat in a 7 game series? The Celtics? The Magic……..?
So, yes, it might have some growing pains associated with it, but I say do it now, get some real superstars to build around, and lets make a run for something that matters.
Here’s a thought experiment for you, can you name the last NBA champion that didn’t have at least one, and more likely 2 superstars?
just and opinion
Legend of Len Barker
January 28th, 2011
10:11 pm
I just watched J. Smith grab his crotch intentionally after making a 3-pointer and throw a punch in situation that didn’t originally involve him.
Yep. He’s a wonderful addition to the team.
Tim
January 29th, 2011
1:28 am
“Would look at Smith waving his arms in the corner, laugh and then look in the other direction”
Have you even watched this season? Or perform basic research before writing this article? There are doubts to whether plays should be drawn which put Smooth in that position, but there’s no doubt he’s been making that shot this year (Better than JJ, Marv, and Jamal).
CONservative Johnson
January 29th, 2011
8:21 am
Legend of Len Barker says “I just watched J. Smith grab his crotch intentionally after making a 3-pointer”
Sometimes the emotional leader of a team is unconventional. And nobody here can deny with a straight face that Josh Smith is the emotional leader of the team . . .
“and throw a punch in situation that didn’t originally involve him.”
And that’s a flat out lie. Josh Smith was in the middle breaking up the fight and did not throw a punch . . .
jim
January 29th, 2011
8:36 am
Trading Josh is ridiculous. He’s still basically a kid. Think about how far he’s gone since he got here and how much more he can improve. He needs to develop between the ears more and do what he does best. I agree about too many 3’s but he does make a few here and there. I agree that if we had Brandon Roy and Chris Paul we would be in the hunt and not even discusssing Josh. What a boondoggle management made passing up those two players. How about a Marvin Williams for Chris Paul? Ha Ha. Fat chance. JR
steveh
January 29th, 2011
8:45 am
Looking at the team overall, I can see that the team has physical talent, but depends on a lot mentally. You can see lulls in the game, sometimes with the game almost slipping away, until an emotional pick-me-up comes along to get things on track. At this point this may be the type of team the Hawks are. Exactly how this article pointed out, Josh had a poor game against the Bucks, and the Hawks lost. This tells you something. The team DEPENDS more on Josh what meets the eye. On a team that, for the moment at least, plays best on emotion, you do need that spark, and Josh is by far the most emotional player on the team, and his spark has refocused the team when needed. On days when the spark is not there, that is when the Hawks need to look for other ways, or to mature into a more consistent team, a little less dependent on emotion. But when the spark is there, who can say it is not exciting? What was that stat I heard on TV last night? The Hawks are like 22 and 2 when Josh has 2 blocks or more in a game? That is not completely a fluke stat. You also need to look at how this team is marketed. If you want to play on the Highlight Factory tag line, then you need highlights. Given an equal number of wins, would you rather be the “Highlight Factory” or the “Factory”. So sure, the Hawks lulls are frustrating to endure, but it is more than simply building wins. It is building entertainment, fan base, AND wins. So I think there would be value into looking at WHY this team is so dependent on Josh Smith and start from there. Trading Josh Smith would be a mistake in my opinion. There are other ways to look at this team, but fundamentally and emotionally, and gain improvement. It is the difficult losses and the fact that we, as fans, are used to the emotional boosts of HOW they win, that makes the losses stick, and help us gloss over a 29 and 16 record. And who would not have taken that if offered to them at the start of the season! So be smart, and carfully look at the dynamics of all elements of the team, and do not do anything that may get a few more wins, or no more wins, but also lower fan instrest at the same time.
gt
January 29th, 2011
9:02 am
New York’s Felton has looked good this year, with 2 years under his belt, hasn’t he. Go back the last few years and reread some of your and this papers solutions to the Hawks or even your estimation of the existing team and compare it to the reality. The Hawks like the Braves are an unappreciated commodity in this town, while a University of Georgia football team decays in Athens without a smell. Last year the fuss was we could never beat Orlando, we had to do emergency surgery right away or be second class for eternity. No real move was made, and Orlando is no longer our Waterloo. Every year we have made mark improvement though I agree Josh is a pill on occasions and is self absorbed. I think taking the college out of the pro experience either allows the immature to leave early or keeps them in that high school mentality. Just being on a college campus and seeing how the sausage is made in this country has a maturing factor on a player. They start to realize the world is bigger than they are and how they really play in this world. As for the point guard, my money is on the Wake Forest alumni being our man of the future. Notice a majority of the players on the Hawks came from very good academic schools. And their are enough smart mature guys on this team to contain one lost sheep. Hold the cards you have this dog hunts.
Go Hawks
January 29th, 2011
9:03 am
The hawks deserve a lot better from the A$C, jeff and others
Jeff
All you do is criticize the ownership, quite frankly they have done a decent job with the Hawks relatively speaking.
They are the most successful team in town over the last few years yet you spend time getting out of your cave to suck up to Blank or vice versa.
You have totally lost creditability when it come to the Hawks and for that matter the Thrashers (however they better start winning consistently).
Alan
January 29th, 2011
9:03 am
Legend of Len Barker
What game where you watching??? Josh did not grab himself after hitting the clutch 3 at the end of the game. Also Josh did NOT throw a punch, he was the main Hawks player trying to break up the fight. Are you really that blind??
By the way Josh Smith is now hitting 38% of his 3’s this year!!
Alan
January 29th, 2011
9:07 am
Do you know what you call a player who makes 38% of his 3’s?? You call him a good 3-point shooter.
grandmasterflash
January 29th, 2011
10:43 am
Najeh,
You are correct, you don’t have to trade Josh Smith for S Nash. Phoenix has no chance to complete for the WCF let alone a NBA championship this year. So moving Nash the year makes sense, Phoenix has publicly announced they are rebuilding. Carter’s expiring contract is worth 19 million and Hill’s (38 years old) tenure is ending. They are clearing unhappy with Josh Childress and he like M Williams can only be moved as a throw in piece because of his salary. Lopez and Gortat will become the foundation of the Suns. There is no place for Nash in a rebuilding faze. Now is the time to offer a package for him. Actually, The Hawks in the East are only team which need his services and desires a PG. The Bulls, Celtics, and Majic have not need for a PG. The Heat like the Hawks are desperate for one, but they have nothing to offer. The Hawks meet Nash’s desire to move to a legitimate contender and meet Phoenix’s desire for substance in return.
Desirable pieces – Jamal, Teague, Mo, Powell, E Thomas all have expiring contracts along with the Hawks # 1 pick. Phoenix already two # 1 picks, but to move J Childress (30 million/5 year deal) is going to require trading a # 1 pick. Who would take him without it? Jamal and Teague offer not only 12.2 millions in expiring contracts, but auditions for future players. Moreover after the CBA, if their auditions prove successfully, they both could be resigned at a saving.
GT,
Kaman (11.8 million/2 years) has been injuried for the few last years, but he can score and rebound on the offensive end. He is not a great defender or shot blocker, but he’s 6′11” 275 lbs space heater. LAC wants to dump him just like the Hawks want to dump the following players Marvin (7.5 million/4 years) , Bibby (5.7 million/2 years) or ZaZa (4.4 million/2 years). Bibby is probably more desrable because his contract ends next year and Marvin fits the SF need. Both teams get want they need players they want to move, fill needs, and contracts that end at the end of the 2012 season.
Finally, you do not trade Josh Smith until you provide a penetrating/facilitating PG ;and if then, he does not excel you trade him. These trades would give a the Hawks legitimate chance to contend for this year and next. Moreover, Nash and Kaman deals would end in 2012 which allows the Hawks to seriously pursue D Howard.
Paul
January 29th, 2011
11:48 am
He’s got to go! I am sick of watching him gripe to the refs about every little thing!
falconfan58
January 29th, 2011
1:17 pm
Josh Smith is a coaching problem. When he is playing bad the head coach must make the decision to pull him. There are always other players available. But for some unknown reason most professional coaches appear to be afraid to pull a player that is not performing. Cox did this all the time with the braves. Leave the player in until he works it out or until there are no more games to play that year. Coaches are there to make decisions for the team. Keep playing bad and loosing and you the coach will be out of a job-not the super pampered player. Lose of command and control in any area results in failure.
HAWKS FAN
January 29th, 2011
4:06 pm
Doesn’t seem like a smart move for the future of the Hawks. We need aggressive players like J Smoove. Just watching last night game their are no other players that rebound and steal the way Josh does. The talks of trading two of the most strong aggressive players (Josh & Jamal). Is the reason I did not purchase my half season tickets. I really hope this decision is seriously thought through. We need young players !!!!
Also Teague can’t get any better if we don’t play him a little more. How about trading Marvin & Evans!!!!
count_schemula
January 29th, 2011
4:55 pm
Marvin just does not have any real value. We are stuck with him. Josh has value and plays with the flash that gets attention, but I’ve never liked his mental game. He’s as likely to throw a game away as he is to dominate it. I would trade Josh for a PG in a second.
Sideline
January 29th, 2011
6:28 pm
The Hawks do not need an old point guard. They aren’t going to win the championship with Joe Johnson as the leader. Why trade for guys who could hit the old age wall at any time? Play Teague and let him learn on the floor. Look at the other point guards they got better by getting minutes (Paul, Walls, Williams, etc.). Look at Mike Conley of Memphis. He stunk up the place for 2 years and now he is playing well. Sacrafice some wins to develop the Teague. AND PLAY THE ROOKIE. He can get his own shot. Give him minutes. Don’t be fool into thinking the Hawks can win anything this year.
nique
January 29th, 2011
9:08 pm
worst trade ideas eva
Buddy Grizzard
January 30th, 2011
12:54 am
Jeff,
I remember when I had you on 640 GST with Art Mehring prior to the ‘05 draft. I wasn’t following college basketball at the time, so when you predicted the Hawks would take Marvin Williams, it was news to me.
It’s funny because Sekou Smith to this day claims he wanted the Hawks to draft Deron Williams. Wish I had saved my old Clear Channel emails because I can assure you, he was 100 percent on board with drafting Williams based on his “star potential.”
How different things would be now if we had drafted in ‘05 based on glaring need… point guard… instead of perceived potential. Billups and Nash both want to stay put and Josh Smith has more long term value than either. Marvin will never be the star that Chris Paul and Deron Williams are, but he is productive and we have our starting front court signed beyond the lockout.
The trade we should really be talking about is Joe Johnson to Cleveland for Antawn Jamison, Anthony Parker and a future first round pick. Clearly the Hawks are not going to win a title this year without a legitimate point guard. Getting out from under Johnson’s contract should be the only priority. Dan Gilbert is desperate to do something to turn Cleveland around after what happened in the off season. He’s the only possible taker.
HWJ
February 1st, 2011
12:36 pm
Trading josh makes our defense go down hill. Also some of these trades yall are proposing are just dream trades. I love the one where pacers get bibby and evans… that makes a lot of since for them to get rid of Granger to get those players in return… also lakers get josh but have to give up bynum.. you realize they have odom and artest at sf…
Tremaine
February 1st, 2011
1:11 pm
Chris Kaman is on the block.
ASHCAN.
February 1st, 2011
2:17 pm
My response to jeff schits question,HELL NO!
Ry
February 1st, 2011
3:45 pm
Teague is not getting any better. He has had chances to play and he is just mediocre. He is another Acie Law.
Tree Rollins
February 2nd, 2011
3:00 am
Trade Josh Smith and next years blogs will be about “will we make the playoffs” or how the hawks should trade for a defender because opponents are scoring 110 pts a game. I’ve never seen a media group point their finger at one dude so much. Every loss is Josh fault regardless of what anyone else does….a missed three from anyone else is not discussed…..though a guy who is shooting a solid percentage from three point line misses one in a loss and its time to trade him because missed. Its like AJC writers have nothing else to talk about so they say hmmmm lets write about how Josh shoots three’s and we would be better with Chauncey…I promise that would not be a good squad at all. Im not sure you would like the results of getting rid of a guy that does the dirty work for an aging good outside shooter.
J from the A
February 2nd, 2011
11:51 am
Josh Smith for a 30-something year old point guard. The Hawks trade, arguably, their most phenomenal player who still has a lot of upside in order to pick up a great but old PG. This is a joke, right?
Smith for Billups (or Nash for that matter) won’t win the Hawks a championship this year. It will leave a huge hole (depth-wise) at the forward and/or center positions. And it would leave the Hawks in an even worse position long-term wise.
Even the Hawk-hating national media types realize that this is a no-brainer don’t do. (In a recent broadcast on NBA TV, Nash trade talks were mentioned. The Hawks were mentioned as one of two playoff teams that could benefit the most from improved PG play. Then the question came up Josh for Nash. Without hesitation, they all said no. Then the question came up Josh for any other really solid PG. Again, without hesitation, they all said no.)
The ONLY way you consider trading Josh for Billups or Nash is if a starting-quality center or a 6th-man (or better) quality (non-guard) youngster is included. And this extra inclusion has to come without the Hawks giving up anything else meaningful.
flyer
February 2nd, 2011
2:44 pm
Even more teams would be laying in basket after basket as they do when Josh is on the bench full time… While a point guard would be good if you could maybe trade bibbie, Teauge and possibly Marvin or somebody for a great one.. The truth is the Hawks need a good big man a true center who can take up room like the 7 footer they have now but could also rebound block shots and just generally intimidate people….. That would help more than anything…
Donte080
February 2nd, 2011
4:33 pm
Jeff,
Trade our most popular hawk Josh Smith for a washed up Billups or a deteriorating Nash? Have you lost your mind?
RYan
February 3rd, 2011
8:17 am
There seems to be a trend in Atlanta sports that people automatically want to take whatever our best players are and trade them away, so someone else can enjoy them. . .