A word about ‘oversigning’ (and revisiting Saban’s dance)
The numbers show Alabama coach Nick Saban has learned creative ways to say goodbye to some players. (AP photo)
It’s the home stretch of recruiting season, which generally isn’t my favorite time of the year, partly because I find the whole concept of obsessing over where an 18-year-old goes to school as, I dunno, a little creepy.
But here’s one of my biggest issues with recruiting: The practice of “oversigning.” It’s exactly what the term says. NCAA rules mandate a football program can’t give out more than 25 scholarships in one class and have more than 85 scholarship athletes on the roster at one time. Often, the math doesn’t work.
A team may have only 18 spots open but it gives out 25 scholarships. This is “oversigning.” It’s a gray area in the rulebook. Coaches get away with it by rationalizing than some players don’t qualify. So the players are stashed at prep schools or junior colleges, while others are convinced to take medical scholarships. Others are pressured into transferring.
The fact is, some kids are run off because they didn’t turn out to be as good as coaches hoped. So much for the concept of amateur athletics.
Nick Saban is the current poster boy for this practice. The Wall Street Journal did a terrific story back in September, quoting three former Alabama players who said they were pressured into leaving the program, presumably to open spots on the roster.
The website oversigning.com is tracking school’s commitments and available slots. Currently, Mississippi and coach Houston Nutt are at plus-11, followed by Saban/Alabama at plus-10, Les Miles/LSU at plus-9 and Bobby Petrino/Arkansas at plus-8.
Suffice to say, this is a horrible practice. I’m going to expand on this topic more in a column in my next post. I spoke to former Baylor head coach Grant Teaff of the American Football Coaches Association (AFCA).
But until then, this will either amuse you or make you sick. Here’s a transcript of a conversation from 2008 between Saban and former Birmingham News staff writer Ian Rapoport (who now covers the New England Patriots for the Boston Herald). Ian’s a good guy, a solid reporter and a bit of a smart aleck, which is probably why I like him. This give-and-take between he and Saban will tell you all you need to know about how coaches try to finesse things to make the numbers work.
April 15, 2008.
By Ian Rapoport
Some questions, you can’t wait to ask. If a pitcher coming off arm surgery throws a no-hitter in his first start back, it would be fun to ask him, So how does that feel? On the other hand, there are some questions that you simply have to ask. Ya know, because it’s your job. A lot of times, it’s clear that while the answer will be valuable, the process getting there won’t be pretty. Your subject might not want to talk about it. Yeah, you might get yelled at. (Not that you mind…)
Today, after Alabama’s last spring practice, I had one of those situations. One of the big questions, I think, for the offseason is how will coach Nick Saban whittle the roster down to just 85 scholarships? There are 66 on scholarship now, and assume 25 freshman will enroll. That’s 91. So six have to go by August. How? That’s what I asked Saban today. He was entertaining as always. Let’s just say, the conversation was classic:
Me: “The numbers [are the] issue. First, do you know, is Colin Peek on scholarship?”
Saban: (Time to play dumb.) “I don’t know. You ask me, do I know…” (Bad question. Clearly, he knows.)
Me: “I think you do know.” (See?)
Saban: “You’ll have to ask somebody else.” (Cue mischievous grin) “You’re asking the wrong guy.”
Me: (Alright, come on, it’s getting late.) “He is, right?”
Saban: “Yeah.” (Round one: Me!)
Me: (The real questions) “How are you going to handle the numbers and when do you start to worry about it?”
Saban: (Getting a little loud… What, Saban worry?) “I’m not worried about them. It’ll all work out. I mean, the whole thing has a solution to every issue. You don’t put yourself in a position where you don’t know what’s coming, then have to take it in the chops.” (”Chops” is such a dad word. Not that there is anything wrong with that) “Alright? We know how it has to be managed, and it will be managed.”
(Pause)
Saban: “And you don’t need to call me and ask me to write a column for you, and I won’t call you and ask you how to manage our numbers. How’s that?”
Me: (Deal! But when did I suggest how to manage the numbers? If he did ask… I digress.) “I don’t even have a calculator.” (Can’t do math without one of those.)
Saban: (The smile returns.) “You don’t need one to do this.”
Me: (Throwing the hands up in the air.) “So you’re not going to tell us?”
Saban: “I’m not going to tell you what?” (That exit is looking mighty welcoming now.) “It’s none of your business. Alright? And don’t give me this stuff about the fans need to know, because they don’t need to know.”Me: “I would never say that.”
Saban: “Don’t even ask. Alright? So. (Starts to walk out, but he’s got one more zinger before he leaves.) Ya know, I thought we could get this one last thing without having to…” (attempt a scolding?)
Me: (Even I start to laugh at that) “You really thought that? No chance.”
Saban: (Off the podium, he can’t help giggling to himself, too) “Not with you.”
Media relations guru Jeff Purinton: (Escorting Saban out the door) “He (me) needed something to hold him over until the season…”
True. Good times…
I’ll be back later with a column on this topic. Until then, what are your thoughts on the practice of oversigning?
By Jeff Schultz
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296 comments Add your comment
First
January 20th, 2011
10:36 am
Woo hoo
PTC DAWG
January 20th, 2011
10:46 am
Oversigning should be banned by the Ncaa. PERIOD.
A Big Dog
January 20th, 2011
10:51 am
Dang, I wish our coach was as smart as Alabama’s Saban.
Bryan G.
January 20th, 2011
10:52 am
How can Ole Miss be plus 11? You’re telling me that Houston Nutt thinks there are players he’s recruiting that can’t get into….Ole Miss? Really?
MikeP
January 20th, 2011
10:53 am
Unless a coach can guarantee no player will get sick, get injured or simply want to transfer to someplace else, there is no way to avoid over signing and still maintain a full roster. Five or six dropping out over the summer is normal for most schools.
I would like to see $aban tarred and feathered for a number of things, but this is not one of them. Scholarships are issued on a year-by-year basis and the players know this when they sign.
PMC
January 20th, 2011
10:54 am
since when is this amateur athletics anyway? They only people buying that argument are on the NCAA’s payroll.
If it’s really “amateur” why not make every player qualify for the school academically before they are admitted?
Why? because it would degrade the quality of the college football cash cow that’s why.
Without a viable semi pro league as a feeder program for the NFL, this is what you get.
College Football in this country is FAR from amateur athletics.
BRAD STEVENS
January 20th, 2011
10:54 am
Recruiting is sad these days. In basketball it is awful and football it is headed in the same direction. I also agree that obsessing over 18 year olds is a little creepy and that a lot of teams cheat like crazy. I’m almost certain that every team in the SEC, excluding Vanderbilt, plays this numbers game all the time. I’m sick and tired of all the transferring from JUCO schools and doing whatever it takes to make kids eligible. Saban and Miles and Meyer are the worst at this but you would never see ESPN do a story on this because it hurts their baby(SEC).
I would love for all to see background and academic checks on AJ Green, Greg Reid, Cam Newton, Nick Fairley and many many others. I can tell you that it’s not pretty.
Russ555
January 20th, 2011
10:56 am
Saban has ten spots. He signs 25. Then before time to set his roster he kicks 15 off the team or talks 15 reshmen to go to a junior college for two years. Math made easy.
gcs
January 20th, 2011
10:57 am
oversigning.com com is a biased BLOG. It is NOT a reliable media source!
There is no mention of the four Ga Tech players who have already been run off.
82Dawg
January 20th, 2011
10:57 am
Why shouldn’t the NCAA be all over this?
SOUTH GA DAWG FAN
January 20th, 2011
10:57 am
So the dogs don’t over sign lately because not enough recruits want to come ?
RDUCK
January 20th, 2011
10:59 am
it’s a shame that these type of coaches are usually the ones to land the big time prospects. there is alot wrong with the whole recruiting process, but this is probably the worst. they promise to take care of these kids for 3-5 years and if the kid isn’t what the coach thought he had, then the kid pays the price. too much of this going on to ignore. this sport is supposed to be an amateur sport, but everyday it is becoming a pro business. i love college football, but there has to be some kind of protection for these kids that go to these schools and help make the millions of dollars for them…
ByteMe
January 20th, 2011
10:59 am
I think oversigning is fine as long as the kids kicked out of a program or dropped from scholarship are immediately able to play at any other school who wants them. That simple. If the bigs are going to play games with the lower 10% of their roster, let the smaller schools that have trouble competing for that level of talent benefit from the situation.
Or do like they do in baseball: you have a 70-man protected roster you have to declare and everyone else can change schools if they find another place to get a scholarship.
RTideR
January 20th, 2011
10:59 am
So many UGA fans will be up in arms about Saban and Bama oversigning. They will say how bad it is for some underachieving players to be run off and transfer. Quick question, How long do you think Quintavious Harrow will be a Bulldog? Do you think he will contribute? Or simply be forced to transfer after a year. I mean the kid had no offers from anyone. He wouldn’t be on Vanderbilt’s 2 deep. But the morally strong and non oversigning Mark Richt wouldn’t ever take advantage of a player just for a year so he can get his teammate would he? What’s the difference? By oversigning, some kids will eventually transfer. But I bet that Harrow will be run off as well.
Barry
January 20th, 2011
11:00 am
What a disgusting practice. These are boys’ lives you are dealing with. How arrogant and self-serving can you be?
Bryan G.
January 20th, 2011
11:00 am
I think the NCAA avoids it because Saban told them it was his dad oversigning all the players and not him. Saban denied any knowledge of the oversigning and thus the NCAA couldn’t punish him.
A Big Dog
January 20th, 2011
11:02 am
Barry….oh, I imagine Saban has about 5 million reasons to be self-serving and such
Lowcountry Bulldawgs
January 20th, 2011
11:02 am
With each passing season the NCCAA and college football becomes more fraudulent. I am finding the NFL more enjoyable as I get older. The players all get paid, the playing field seems to be as level as possible. College football is tarnishing itself right before our very eyes with grayshirting, the Cam Newton/Reggie Bush story’s and the BCS.
gcs
January 20th, 2011
11:07 am
Someone tell me why a scholarshipped player who underperforms deserves to keep their scholarship anyway?
If a person gets an academic scholarship and makes Cs and Ds, what happens to that scholarship? That is right. It gets taken away.
Most non-athletic scholarships have a GPA minimum that must be sustained – usually 3.0 – and you may be surprised to know that many of these scholarships also require leadership skills, extracurricular activities and community service.
Why shouldn’t athletes be held up to the same performance standards.
.
ez
January 20th, 2011
11:07 am
should be ‘between him and Saban’
Bruce Mac
January 20th, 2011
11:07 am
So our Dawgs are just plain stupid. It is apparently in the rules and legal. If you want to compete you have to take every advantage of every rule. Saban is smart and CMR is dumb, period. This is like me saying in my business, that giving Xmas gifts to customers is legal but not ethical so I won’t do it. My competition does it and gets all the business. So, who is stupid? Me!!!!!
Bruce Mac
January 20th, 2011
11:09 am
RTideR, Mr. Richteous will keep Harrow on scholly for four years. That is how dumb we are.
A Big Dog
January 20th, 2011
11:10 am
Bruce Mac…you really expect our coach to play tough…heck, the idiot can’t even use a cellphone correctly when recruiting!
Bruce Mac
January 20th, 2011
11:11 am
I can hope that he will. I guaranty you the next one will.
5150 P.O.A.D
January 20th, 2011
11:12 am
gcs
What are the Tech Players names you speak of.
And this is the Reason B Dodd hated Bear Bryant and Left the SEC over these types of recruiting issues.
RTideR
January 20th, 2011
11:13 am
Bruce Mac, If Crowell goes to UGA he will probably be worth 2 Scholarships. The thing people don’t realize is that college athletic scholarships are a 1 year agreement. Not 4 years. They are renewed each year and it is up to the discretion of the coach whether to renew them or not. You could sign 25 every year, not renew some scholarships every year, and be completely within the rules.
Trojan
January 20th, 2011
11:13 am
Saban does not equal character. He is out for winning and he will do anything, ethically or not, to make that happen.
DawginLex
January 20th, 2011
11:15 am
Nobody knows about Harrow or anyone else.
He was barely able to qualify academically and that overshadowed his athletic ability because of concerns about him being able to go to college.
He can do one of two things:
Bust his butt in the classroom and play 4 years and get a free college education.
or
Listen to you experts who say he is a flop and doesn’t deserve to get a scholarship.
i hope he chooses to prove you wrong.
Bruce Mac
January 20th, 2011
11:18 am
RTideR, I realize that but we will give him a scholly every year unless he does something stupid or flunks out. CMR will not pull his scholly just because he is not worthy. Never has, never will.
Buckshot
January 20th, 2011
11:19 am
RTideR made a good point. They are 1 year scholarships that are renewed each season. The student athlete should live up to the expectations of that scholarship in order to maintain it. It would be nice if UGA could have the same problem that UA has with over-signing.
Jeff Schultz
January 20th, 2011
11:20 am
ByteMe — I agree with you 100 percent on kids being allowed to play elsewhere right away and that will be a part of the column.
GTBob
January 20th, 2011
11:21 am
Oversigning should be banned. Plain and simple. It’s pretty disgusting what the NCAA and college football has become these days. If things like this are going to be allowed then they should just let them pay the players and fire them whenever they want. College Football is well past being an amateur sport at this point anyways.
Jeff Schultz
January 20th, 2011
11:21 am
GCS — 4 kids run off from Georgia Tech? Who?
heartofdarkness
January 20th, 2011
11:21 am
Bread and circuses.
CT_Jacket
January 20th, 2011
11:24 am
GCS,
It doesn’t matter if oversigning.com is a biased blog or not. Fox and MSNBC are biased. The question is, do they present the facts?
And the four Tech players that were “run off” are irrelevant to this discussion because GT hasn’t signed over 21 players in the last five years.
bjohndawg
January 20th, 2011
11:25 am
Ban it.Ban it. Ban it. Make it a 4 year deal. not a one year. With out clause for arrests for major charges, multiples, and grades.Otherwise its a four year ride.
Colleges should be ashamed of this lack of integrity.
A Big Dog
January 20th, 2011
11:25 am
JS….wasn’t the NCAA Academic Progress Report supposed to help stop the scholarship high turnover rate?
joe
January 20th, 2011
11:25 am
You’d think potential recruits would look at the numbers, check the depth charts and do the math to see if they could potentially be one of the ones that are “placed” elsewhere or are “run off/transferred” before signing at a particular school. If these schools are 8-12 OVER, whey would any recruit in their right mind sign there when there are other schools in need that offer a better opportunity for playing time…and provide just as good an education.
SouthGaBrave
January 20th, 2011
11:26 am
RTideR,
Harrow will be a Dawg his entire career. You’re obviously not a fan of Georgia, but if you were you would know the names Kevin Perez, Ricardo Crawford, and Tanner Strickland. All are scholarship guys who barely scratched the field, but were allowed to stay for 4 years and earn a degree. They would have been run off after 2 years in Tuscaloosa.
Lowcountry Bulldawgs
January 20th, 2011
11:26 am
The school’s are 1 year deals, but the kids should not be penelized for the coaching staff misevaluating a kids ability. That is the reality the coaching staff should have to live with.
DZ
January 20th, 2011
11:28 am
Regarding the so-called “terrific story” in The Wall Street Journal, I guess it was terrific to you because it told you what you wanted to hear.
1. The Wall Street Journal is not the prestigious paper it used to be. It has a lot of schlocky articles these days.
2. “Three Alabama players who’ve taken these exemptions say they believe the team uses the practice as a way to clear spots for better players by cutting players it no longer wants.” This is a lie. Only one of these players hints at this. Words were put in the other two players’ mouths.
3. There are no counter-interviews with anyone from the Alabama staff or administration. That is taught in Journalism 101.
4. I would think that the Alabama team doctors – which includes the world-renowned sports medicine surgeon Dr. James Andrews (ever heard of him?) – know what they are doing. Do you think these doctors would risk their careers by faking medical results???
5. It took two people to write this flimsy sad excuse for an article? (see item #1)
Bodda Getta
January 20th, 2011
11:31 am
Face it.
For some young men, football is their best chance to excel, make a name for themselves, and provide for their families.
At Georgia’s major universities, many of these men will never get the opportunity to realize their dreams if they can not execute a linear algebra equation or diagram a sentence.
(By the way, how many of YOU can execute a linear equation today? Or diagram a sentence?)
We know that not all of the best players will be able to do these things day one.
Our approach gives them the best players the opportunity to show their skills on the practice field and the weight room. If they are good enough, they will get the opportunity (either directly or through junior college) to achieve entry and demonstrate these skills on the big stage.
It pains me to agree with Coach Saban, but he is right. These scholarships do not belong to the fans. It is none of their business how they are managed. The same is true for financial assistance given to any other student.
For those students who are not the best players, we give them immediate feedback and give them the opportunity to move on and focus their time on developing other skills which will make them successful. Depending on the situation, this will happen at the university or elsewhere.
We do not let them continue waste their time under a five year delusion that they will make the NFL if they continue their football career here.
The sooner they come to this conclusion, the more time they will have to plot the course which is best for them.
This is how real life works. We do not operate a baby sitting center, or live in some self-righteous fantasy world.
Native Atlantan
January 20th, 2011
11:32 am
@ RTideR: Tim Jennings was a 2 star from Spartanburg SC and was headed to South Carolina State until UGA offered him near signing date. All he did was start 4 years and turn out to be a first round NFL pick. Who knows how some of these players will develop. Take a look at some NFL rosters and you’ll see plenty of guys from small schools or non football powers.
I’m willing to bet Harrow will stay at UGA as long as he wants. Sorry to hear the same can not be said for many players at Alabama.
Russ555
January 20th, 2011
11:34 am
Change the rule to only allow them to sign twenty a year, with a limit of only 80 at any time.
That would eliminate the problem of coaches having to run players off to make room for the next 25 victims, I mean freshmen.
SOUTH GA DAWG FAN
January 20th, 2011
11:35 am
one more season of Richt and I am afraid we might be glad to take the tides castoffs .
but this is a bad practice for the kids that lose their free ride .
#1BamaFan
January 20th, 2011
11:35 am
Some of the folks on this board do not know what they are talking about but they love to hear or read what they speak. If you dislike Saban, then so be it but do not make up stuff about how he is cruel to the kids or oversigns players and puts them in the street. Maybe the players want to be coached to the next level or want to play like a champion so they sign with BAMA. Why do the players sign with BAMA if SABAN is a tryant with there are plenty of offered schlorships available at other schools? RTR
RTideR
January 20th, 2011
11:35 am
I’m not justifying oversigning by any means. I’m simply saying that it is within the rules.
Tell the truth
January 20th, 2011
11:42 am
Bryan G. You may be on to something there. It has worked before.
AAron
January 20th, 2011
11:43 am
SouthGaBrave, I am glad you brought up Tanner Strickland.
This is the exact same thing that is going on in the ‘Wall Street Journal’ article except Strickland is accepting his fate. He has one more year of eligibility left but he is stepping aside so UGA can have one more scholarship.
It’s only fair that if someone is not going to play due to injury that they take the medical scholarship.
Under a medical scholarship a person still has room, board and tuition paid for by the university. Is there any reason for him to stand on the sidelines in uniform except to appease his ego if he is never going to play?
Jerry Pugh
January 20th, 2011
11:44 am
C’mon guys. After all, this is the SEC where your team can gets it’s rear kicked all year or in a bowl game, but as long as some SEC teams wins, you can cheer for them and pretend all is well with the world. This is the SEC where if your aren’t bending rules or cheating, then you just aren’t trying to win. And this is why coaches like Saban, Miles and Meyer migrate to the SEC. They know they can do whatever they want as long as they want and as long as they win, they will make the big bucks, and that’s all that they care about. You think Saban really gives a flip about Alabama or Miles LSU? Welcome to the Yellow Brick Road where life is beautiful all the time.
Tell the truth
January 20th, 2011
11:46 am
5150 P.O.A.D So you don’t think that Tech left the SEC because it got greedy? Because it went to a bowl game every year(there were not many at that time you will recall) and decided it would like all that revenue for itself as an independent??? Really?
GoJackets!
January 20th, 2011
11:47 am
Delta oversigns every flight
gcs
January 20th, 2011
11:48 am
Jeff Schultz— 4 kids run off from Georgia Tech:
Wide receiver Quentin Sims, safety Cooper Taylor, A-back Chris Jackson and quarterback Jordan Luallen.
Ironically, Alabama was criticized for running Chris Jackson off last year. But nobody says a thing when GT does it.
.
Geaux Tigers!!
January 20th, 2011
11:48 am
The scholarship is a renewable 1 year deal. If I player does not work out or does not show a desire to work hard and get better then I see no reason why a school should continue to give that kid a free ride.
All scholarships are like this. If your performance suffers, you lose your scholarship. So why is it ok in academics but not football? Everyone wants these kids to be student-athletes yet you don’t want to make them responsible for their actions/performance. Bull!!!
As for greyshirts, that’s a trickier situation. As long as a coach is honest with the kid from the beginning and said kid is ok with that, then I don’t see a problem with it. In the case of Elliot Porter at LSU, he had professed his love for everything LSU but also knew he was going to redshirt. Les Miles went to him (albeit, waaayyyy too late in the process) and asked him to take the greyshirt and join the team in Jan. on scholarship. He declined and Les granted him unconditional transfer. Porter, however, is now back at LSU where he will walk on and wont be eligible for a scholarship for 2 years. Porter has said himself that he should have taken the greyshirt.
My point being, that I think we are overreacting a bit when it comes to this. this is life. If you’re not getting better you’re being left behind. We’ve made college football what it is today by wanting our teams to win over anything. The players use these schools too though. Should be ban early entries or one and dones?
robodawg
January 20th, 2011
11:48 am
Just cuz it’s legal don’t make it right.
Georgia has plenty of guys who never make it off the practice squad but stay four years and graduate. One thing at least that Richt does the right way. Yes, it’s a competitive disadvantage, but I wouldn’t have it any other way.
Trupert
January 20th, 2011
11:48 am
Oversigning is wrong and it’s a unfair advantage to people who put winning a football game above all that is fair, honerable and honest and as long as people of low character ( SEE Saban, Miles, Nut etc) are given the wiggle room it will continue.
The $EC should make it against the rules but they won’t because money matters more than honesty and integrity to the $EC.
SouthGaBrave
January 20th, 2011
11:50 am
AAron,
You are correct. I have no problem with a guy like Tanner who, after completing 4 years and having a degree in hand, decides not to cash in on that 5th year of eligibility. Tanner has had shoulder issues in the past, but is completely healthy now. But he knows his future isn’t in the NFL, so why risk another year of mostly sitting the bench (and potential injury) when you already have your degree.
It is kids diappearing after their 2nd or 3rd year that most people have a problem with.
Dontavius Supremo
January 20th, 2011
11:50 am
We have allowed money and the love of money to dominate college athletics. It’s shameful.
Lowcountry Bulldawgs
January 20th, 2011
11:54 am
Watch this if you want to know more about oversigning. The 5th year Miami DE loosing his scholarship is a interesting twist into this.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/otl/index
Lowcountry Bulldawgs
January 20th, 2011
11:56 am
Watch the video entitled “Over the Limit”.
Terry Shirey, Sr.
January 20th, 2011
11:56 am
What I find creepy is you calling obsession with where an 18-year old is going to school creepy while you and your newspaper play a major role in creaing the obcession. You even have a writer devoted to nothing but recruiting. What if high school 5-star recruit “Joe Banana” gave a press conference to announce his school choice and no one showed up or reported it? Its the same as with sports writers complaining about pre-season and early season ratings playing too big an influence on BCS ratings when the sports writers are the one doing the ratings and the media is the one publishing them.
Tell the truth
January 20th, 2011
11:57 am
Please don’t tell me that the high and mighty-completely ethical-pin cushion for the country outside of the south- would dare to do something like this. Say it ain’t so Joe!!!
dawgster
January 20th, 2011
11:58 am
@SouthGaBrave… good points…and also if Tanner had wanted to continue Coach Richt and staff would have been delighted…I’m amazed at some of the posts on here saying how dumb Coach Richt is for not doing this…I understand its about “Winning”…but i think you can achieve that and still have honor…I’m not going to single out Saban, but there evidently is something to be said for his practices accordint the referenced articles…Again i’m proud to know that if my son played for a Coach Richt, i would know he would be treated fairly as long as he was at school and did things he was suppose to as a student’athlete…go dawgs
Paul H
January 20th, 2011
11:59 am
Jeff, we need to add savvy reporters to the GI Joe action figure list. They could be the bad guys and the coaches can be the good guys. Or would it be the other way around?
AAron
January 20th, 2011
12:02 pm
SouthGaBrave,
Who is disappearing after their 2nd or 3rd year?
Those who transfer to another school have every chance to get a degree at their new school. Those on medical scholarship, get to stay at their school and continue their full ride until they graduate. In that WSJ article, Alabama generously paid for that guy’s grad school (yet he still whines).
You are trying to make it sounds like they drive to the county line and drop them off at the side of the road.
Tell the truth
January 20th, 2011
12:05 pm
AAron Maybe they pack’em a lunch too.
Loyal Dawg
January 20th, 2011
12:10 pm
Kudos to Schultzie. I know the Bama fans don’t like this topic, but it is up for legitimate discussion. It opens up players to potential abuse by unethical coaches and essentially circumvents the intent of the annual 25 scholarship limit. A coach can stockpile kids that may would sign somewhere else, potentially preventing them accepting a scholarship from a school that had room on signing day. If the kids’ second choice holds a spot for him, he’s okay, but if the school signs someone else because they want to fill that scholarship right away, he’s out of luck.
Rumbo
January 20th, 2011
12:10 pm
Everybody knows which schools use the practice the most, which by the way is legal. The SEC lets you sign 28 every year. Gray-shirting is also a legal way to manage the numbers. The kids considering those schools are aware of it because opposing recruiters use it against those schools, moralists like Schultz write about it with regularity, and the subject is all over the internet. It’s all a known, it’s all legal and the recruits who sign with those schools are by now aware of the risks. It’s called capitalism in the corporate world and it makes moralists queasy to see it applied to college athletics. Such is life. So a kid winds up having to transfer? Boo Hoo. He still gets a scholarship.
DC
January 20th, 2011
12:13 pm
I’m glad you’ve made this article..we have been talking about this for while on Barnhart’s blog…its absolutely crazy what they can get away with. Jeff, check out the Outside the lines report on LSU and a quarterback who was kicked off the team. Good stuff…
SouthGaBrave
January 20th, 2011
12:13 pm
AAron,
I’m not trying to chase Saban/Bama down with torches and pitchforks. I realize things happen at a lot of schools. I was speaking in general terms, hence the reason I didn’t list names. Also, yes those students still can earn degrees and playing time at institutions they transfer too. However, their illusions of granduer upon signing at their first school go unfulfilled. To be sold on the recent history of winning at a program, and then transfer after 2-3 years (spun by the school as a “mutual decision”, but are usually far from it) is not the career these kids hoped for.
Since it’s obvious you don’t want Bama singled out, we’ll take LSU in an example. Say a kid grew up in Georgia as a fan of UGA or Tech, but were sucked in by LSU’s recent success, next year’s top 5 preseason ranking, and a smooth talking recruiter. So, them and their parents hide the homestate gear deep in the closet and they make the trek out West with promises in their head of championships and NFL draft status. After 2-3 years, they “mutually decide” to transfer to Directional State University to play out their final bit of eligibility and earn a degree. They come home to live/work and pull that old gear of the home team out of the back of the closet, but no one will ever forget that they left for bigger and better things. Kind of a hollow story….
Sports Blog Atlanta
January 20th, 2011
12:15 pm
There is a reason the NCAA follows every move Nick Saban makes. He decided to skirt the number of visits a coach could make by making video conference calls. While not a direct violation of the rule, it certainly violated the spirit of the rule regarding how many recruits you can visit.
I don’t fault Saban for trying to find a way to come up with a competitive advantage in what he does. Do you think the Alabama faithful care about Saban’s tactics as long as they win? Heck no! The fault lies with the NCAA for not doing something about it. The NCAA puts on a show about how they are for the “students” and maintaining their amateur status, but the reality is They keep quiet here because They benefit when certain schools like Alabama do well.
DC
January 20th, 2011
12:20 pm
I don’t blame the recruiter entirely..but they need to be held accountable..they are ruining kids lives and that needs to be put out there..NCAA needs to crack down hard on Saban…oh and *cough war eagle *cough
Loyal Dawg
January 20th, 2011
12:22 pm
I’m calling out all the coaches that abuse this loop hole, not just Saban.
Another Dawg
January 20th, 2011
12:22 pm
The NCAA needs to close an obvious loophole. Scholarships should require 4+ year commitments to a player. Medical hardships should be allowed, but they should still cost the team a scholarship for 1 year for a Sophomore or Junior, and 2 years for a Freshman. A team should only be able to oversign 1 player a year (to account for players not qualifying.) Reward the walk-ons with scholarships; they’re the swimmies that keep teams academically afloat, anyways.
PMC
January 20th, 2011
12:22 pm
You know though, the only people really crying about oversigning are the ones whose football programs aren’t winning titles.
There is no honor in this sport people. Amaturism does not exist in big money sports.
magnus dawgus
January 20th, 2011
12:23 pm
People keep bring up Meyer and Florida as engaging in oversigning. Check the numbers, they have not engaged in this practice.
The SEC West schools (surprise, surprise) are the biggest transgressors.
Tell the truth
January 20th, 2011
12:23 pm
Looks like they need to crack down on the SEC itself- top 5 teams listed all SEC teams.
JB
January 20th, 2011
12:34 pm
Sign of the times. Dawgs could only muster 18 recruits last year, two already gone…will struggle this year, we need 1,000 and will get 22-23……Bama on the other hand looks like an Army induction center on signing day…LOL…. They’ll sign what, 40?
Dr. Phil
January 20th, 2011
12:35 pm
I thought that once a player signed, the school had to honor the scholarship, unless the player beat up his girlfriend twice or habitually rode his motor scooter up one way streets and refused to get a license, or was incarcerated for 60 days during the semester like Randy Moss at FSU.
Ted Striker
January 20th, 2011
12:36 pm
Massive — emphasis on “massive” — oversigning is a shameful practice. That said, it’s not anything new. Interesting read on the link below about the old scholarship limit of 140 (with an annual signing limit of 45) and how it impacted Bobby Dodd’s/Tech’s decision to leave the SEC.
http://bit.ly/esULV2
McDawg
January 20th, 2011
12:37 pm
perhaps if we did more of it we would not of had all of the depth problems on the O-Line…..just saying
Shawn
January 20th, 2011
12:37 pm
Saban’s big problem at the Dolphins was evaluating talent. That’s why he came back to college. He is awful at evaluation so he just goes and gets as many as he can and weeds them out. In the NFL you have to draft on evaluations and there were reports that he would lose sleep over these decisions. “What do you mean I only get 7 picks? This is crazy. I gotta go back to college where I can get all I want.” Trust me, He is not worried about his character coming into question. The guy is a great coach but a terrible human! I respect CMR for continuing to give the promise of an education to guys like Q. Banks, T. Strickland……and yes, Harrow will get his 4 years if he chooses to continue making the grades!
Jeff Schultz
January 20th, 2011
12:38 pm
GCS — Not sure about that. Taylor and Sims left the program during the season, didn’t they? Can’t recall other 2. In any event, don’t remember Paul Johnson ever being accused of oversigning. There are legit reasons some kids transfer (or get kicked out). I’m not indicting every coach.
Joey
January 20th, 2011
12:41 pm
“I understand its about “Winning”…but i think you can achieve that and still have honor…”
******************************************
I want UGA Football to be honorable too, as long as we are competitive. 6-7, 3-5 ain’t very competitive, dawgster.
JSS
January 20th, 2011
12:43 pm
Ah Jeff Schultz….
You’ve let those “Stalkers of 18 year old boys” suck you in! It’s a sad day!
By the way, make these “student-athletes” “grant-in-aid” like everyone else… There is this word bandied about in these parts: “entitlement.” But it always seems to be thrown at everyone else…
A Big Dog
January 20th, 2011
12:47 pm
I wish our Coach was like Saban.
Alabama Jack
January 20th, 2011
12:52 pm
The Prince of Alabama cares only about winning football games and himself! A kid would have to be stupid to play for him but we are talking about the Alabama football program and the poor boys never graduate!
Bodda Getta
January 20th, 2011
12:53 pm
Two card players pay five-card poker.
Player one says, “Deal me five cards”.
Player two says, “Deal me seven cards”.
Best five cards win.
Better than 80% of the time, player two walks away with the winnings.
100% of the time, player one claims moral self-righteousness.
Nearly everyone else agrees player one is a dumbass.
David
January 20th, 2011
12:53 pm
Some kids don’t work out – literally. Some kids don’t study the playbook. If a kid isn’t “making the grade” on the field, then yes, his ATHLETIC scholarship is in jeopardy. Same as a kid who finds his ACADEMIC scholarship in jeopardy because he isn’t making the grades.
Since when is a kid guaranteed a 4 year free ride based on what he did in high school and IRREGARDLESS of what he accomplishes in college? Some programs are intensely competitive, because so many kids want to play there — just like any other hierarchy of organizations out there.
This is a ridiculous debate. As long as programs work to help kids land on their feet, then this is a total non-issue.
The practice of moving kids along will always continue. It’s just a question of whether or not programs do it before or after signing day. Doing it after signing day maximizes a kid’s chance to stay with a program (contingent to signing results, versus being forced to clear room for someone you might sign). So not only is the argument ridiculous, but it actually hurts the very kids it intends to help. Can no one in this society think more than once step down the road anymore?
Grammar Man
January 20th, 2011
1:00 pm
Kudos to Schultz for writing this column. I fear that many in the local sports media are afraid to speak up for fear of losing access to the offending programs. I even forgive you for the “begs the question” infraction. As I mentioned in my comment on the SEC t-shirt column, this is a horrendous unethical practice and I’m afraid that Georgia, Vandy, and Florida won’t have the power to force a change on the SEC. It will have to come from outside.
Bulldog Joe
January 20th, 2011
1:03 pm
JSS,
“Entitlement” is what Georgia players feel as soon as Coach Richt signs them to five year contracts.
01HAWK
January 20th, 2011
1:04 pm
Football Scholarships are just like academic scholarships. If you do not make the grades then you are off scholarship. Maybe that is why Georgia just does not get it.
It is sad to see all of the SABAN bashing. If he left BAMA for Georgia then 90 % or more would favor the move. But we know that will never happen………………….I mean, UGA is not an elite program, and why would SABAN take a step down. This would not even be a lateral move.
01HAWK
January 20th, 2011
1:06 pm
SEC EAST ………………………………………SUCKS !!!!!!!!!!!!!
JSS
January 20th, 2011
1:14 pm
Remember A.J. Bryant from Hawkinsville HS? He had absolutely no business going to UGA. Not because he was like a “Pulpwood Smith;” but because it was a result of it not being a good match… There’s a player who could have gone to a lesser D-1, 1-AA, D-II program and gotten a degree and prepared himself for a career at the next level. I have a creepy feeling that Nik Marshall may be walking down the same road.
The old Dodd quote was and is true… “It’s not the recruits fault for not making the squad (team), it was the coaches fault for misjudging their talents.”
Gatorman
January 20th, 2011
1:15 pm
Yeah, I like my Gators, but I didn’t cry uncontrollably when they had a mediocre season, nor will I next year if they don’t either. All of us should have a priority greater than football games, and if you don’t you might look inward to find out why not.
David
January 20th, 2011
1:15 pm
I had an academic scholarship in college. I had to make certain grades, or I lost the scholarship.
Let’s change the deal. I get a free ride — tuition, meals, lodging, everything — but I have to work 30 hours a week. (Sort of like a graduate assistantship, minus the tuition, meals and lodging.) I also get to work under some of the best-paid people in my profession in the country. The top 4 or 5 students in the program get paid at least $500,000 annually after graduation. Some of them don’t even have to stay 4 years, and a few even get 7 figure signing bonuses the moment they leave campus. However, I also have to be one of the best students in the region in order to remain in the program. It’s intensely competitive. People are constantly working to take my spot, as you can imagine.
Sounds sort of like life.
As long as the program works to help kids land on their feet, then this is completely a non-issue. It’s more than any company ever does for an employee, and it’s more than any university does for a kid who doesn’t meet the obligations of an academic scholarship.
I don’t know why sports writers get so bent out of shape over this. The kids are not being kicked out of school. They are losing a total free ride – a limited quantity item in high demand.
Rather than complaining about over-signing, why not hold up the NCAA to scrutiny? Why does the 85 limit exist? To make sure programs like USC can’t stockpile kids who might otherwise end up at Washington. It also levels the playing field — forcing a school with enough fan support to maintain 120 grant-in-aids (Alabama or Texas) to play by the economic realities of a TCU or Ole Miss.
Thinking. Priceless.
ommyTa
January 20th, 2011
1:15 pm
You really can’t compare academic scholarships to athletic ones. No one loses their academic scholarship because a new crop of better students comes in and takes them away. There are objective (somewhat) standards called grades, and the level of expected performance is documented in the scholarship (i.e., maintain a certain GPA). In college football, a kid could lose his scholarship purely at the coach’s discretion. I’m not advocating blanket protection for athletes, but let’s compare apples to apples.
dawgfan
January 20th, 2011
1:16 pm
How many times is Schultz going to claim that he doesn’t care about recruiting in a column that he wrote about…wait for it…RECRUITING?
Crusader
January 20th, 2011
1:16 pm
Jeff, please continue to report on this practice. It may not be against the rules but it is unethical. The coaches exhort the players to sacrifice for the team and then get pushed out for the same team. Is this the message we should be sending to these young men anything in the name of expediency it is simply going back to the corrupt practices prior to the most recent rule changes addressing recruiting abuses.
Crusader
January 20th, 2011
1:16 pm
Jeff, please continue to report on this practice. It may not be against the rules but it is unethical. The coaches exhort the players to sacrifice for the team and then get pushed out for the same team. Is this the message we should be sending to these young men anything in the name of expediency it is simply going back to the corrupt practices prior to the most recent rule changes addressing recruiting abuses.
Grammar Man
January 20th, 2011
1:17 pm
We all agree that Urban Meyer is a competitive guy. If there is nothing unethical about oversigning, then why didn’t Urban oversign? It clearly gives the team an advantage, so why wouldn’t he do it? The worst thing about oversigning is it has made me hate LSU, Auburn, Arkansas, Ole Miss, and Alabama more than I hate Florida and Tennessee, and me having a shred of respect for Florida just doesn’t feel good.
Belcher
January 20th, 2011
1:18 pm
Let’s cut all the B.S. and admit that it’s ALL about$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Will
January 20th, 2011
1:18 pm
Most academic scholarships are renewed annually on the basis of academic progress. Falling below a 3.0, for example, will cost you your HOPE Scholarship. Why should athletic scholarships be treated differently? If you fail to meet the athletic progress, you are not renewed.
Tell the truth
January 20th, 2011
1:19 pm
01HAWK that would be SEC LEAST to you.
Tell the truth
January 20th, 2011
1:20 pm
Grammar Man Amen brother.
Willy
January 20th, 2011
1:21 pm
gcs,
You have nothing to support your rationalized argument. Only those 4 players from Tech know their motivation for leaving. It is unfair to assume other people’s reasons for doing things.
gcs
January 20th, 2011
1:21 pm
My point is that so many people want to point the finger at schools like Ole Miss, Alabama & LSU for dastardly forcing a poor underperforming player to transfer. However, transferring happens all the time at every school including Georgia Tech.
99% of the time, athletes transfer because they want more playing time or are unhappy with the program. Saint Mark Richt is not immune to this. Just ask Marcus Dowtin.
.
Bishop Eddie Longs Red Panties
January 20th, 2011
1:22 pm
Saban is the 6 million dollar man get your facts straight There is a reason he makes that kind of
money and it all comes down to results on the gridiron The Alabama athletic program brings in 90
+ million dollars a year so paying him 6 million a year hell we are getting a bargain Roll Tide Roll!
gcs
January 20th, 2011
1:23 pm
EXACTLY, Willy.
So stop blaming the coaching staffs at other schools.
.
RollTideGamecocks
January 20th, 2011
1:24 pm
@ GTBOB…. your just upset that Georgia tech cant land one five star or more importantly keep one for over a night.
Willy
January 20th, 2011
1:28 pm
gcs,
I agree with you that most coaches are culpable for this practice. But it’s unfair to be cynical of EVERY progam.
Tide Rising
January 20th, 2011
1:28 pm
The sheer ignorance of the posters on this board about oversigning is nothing short of astounding. Let me help out a few of you ignoramuses with some logic and most of all some truth.
Point 1- Oversigning.com is not a credible website. Its one guy using wordpress and the site is this one guy’s opinion. This bozo obviously has an axe to grind.
Point 2- In the Wall Street Journal article only one of the 3 players was bitter about taking a medical redshirt- Kirschman. Kirschman was a leftover Shula recruit who played in all of 2 games in his career and in his senior year he would have sat on the bench his entire year. So what does it really matter anyway if he took a medical redshirt.
And is anyone on here really going to question the medical opinion of the world renowned orthopedic specialist Dr. James Andrews? On that point alone you should shut up.
Kirschman was also there 4 or 5 years- not run off in 2 years as some of you bozos insinuate. Bama paid for his graduate school education and he also gets the same perks as other players such as free player tickets.
Point 3- The other 2 players took the medical redshirts willingly- especially in the case of Hoke, and in the article neither of them had a negative comment about Bama. Again are you super geniuses going to question the medical advice of Dr. James Andrews?
Point 4- When its all said and done Bama fields a team with 85 scholly players year after year- just like everyone else. And if 1-2 players have to take a greyshirt and enroll a mere one semester later then they are fully apprised of that in the recruiting process and are well aware of it. If they don’t like it there are 119 other schools to sign with. No one is putting a gun to their head and making them sign with Bama.
Point 5- I challenge anyone on here to produce evidence of a single player who was run off for no other reason then to make room for another recruit. Otherwise STFU. The only players run off from the program were disciplinary problems such as Prince Hall- suspended 3 times before voluntarily transferring and was a starter as a redshirt freshman, Brandon Fanney- a 2 year starter who voluntarily transferred after being suspended for the season for breaking team rules, and Alonzo Lawrence- a former 5 star recruit who was pushed out the door for breaking team rules. Incidentally Lawrence transferred to Southern Miss and you guessed it- he was recently dismissed from the Southern Miss team for disciplinary reasons.
Bring it on boys- an open challenge and a $1,000 check to anyone who can show proof of Saban running off a player for other than disciplinary action simply to make room for a new recruit.
One last thing for the minions of morons out there. The last year or 2 Bama has had1-2 players who grayshirt typically because of a high school injury or because of lack of room until the next semester. 2 years ago AU and UT played with 72 and 68 scholly players because they did not sign adequate numbers. So that would be 30 open scholarships that went to waste for 30 young men that missed out on the opportunity of big time football on scholarship.
How do you morons morally justify that its somehow bad for 1-2 guys to delay enrollment for 1 semester but its perfectly fine for 30 schollys- mostly to be used by young black men from poor backgrounds- to go to waste all so that you can preach and be morally smug about the supposed harmful practice of oversigning. Didn’t think that one through did ya geniuses?
A Big Dog
January 20th, 2011
1:29 pm
McGarity….please find someone like satan….er I mean Saban.. for us!
Tosh.No
January 20th, 2011
1:30 pm
College is not supposed to be all about football. If you are good enough in high school to get a scholorship to a school, it is so you can go there and LEARN. Not just play football. To kick a kid off the team for not performing is shameful, and should be stopped. I understand if some kid wants to gray shirt, that is not a big deal to me, but to say that a kid is not as “good” as you thought he was and kick him off the team, and basically out of school for a newer athelete is disgusting and Nick Saban and the others that do this should be beaten with rebar. And all the Bama rednecks that are defending your golden boy are probably not even high school educated, so keep acting like your Ok with this type of thing because I will laugh my butt off if it happens to one of your kids one day. That is the one thing I respect out of Mark Richt, he will be loyal to the kids he gets to come to UGA. If you screw up bad like Mett or Dowtin, then your gone, but not because you were not as good as they had hoped.
David
January 20th, 2011
1:36 pm
Tosh — How in the heck is taking away a full free ride the same thing as kicking a kid off a team or kicking him out of class? They are NOT the same thing. If the university works to make sure a kid can stay in school (medical scholarship, transfer to another school with an available grant — whatever), then nothing harmful cited by you in your past has occurred. NOTHING.
Tosh.No
January 20th, 2011
1:38 pm
And Tide Rising, what an ignorant piece of garbage that post just was. Praying to whatever god is up there that this happens to one of your kids. Gonna be hilarious.
Chi Town
January 20th, 2011
1:39 pm
Blah! Blah! Blah!
Bama own the Mutts.
BG
January 20th, 2011
1:39 pm
Saban is a SNAKE in the grass! Saban will kick a player off the team in a NewYork second if the player is not performing like Saban thinks he should. Saban could care less about a young man getting a college education. Saban treats college football like it’s the NFL. If a player gets a career ending injury Saban will boot him off the team!
U Got Arrested
January 20th, 2011
1:40 pm
Easy solution: You can NOT sign a Letter of Intent unless you meet minimum NCAA qualification standards.
Chi Town
January 20th, 2011
1:41 pm
Tosh.No = Douche Bag
Tide Rising owns you.
Tosh.No
January 20th, 2011
1:41 pm
Lots of the Bama homers on here who love to defend garbage. Like I said, let it happen to your kid David and see if your feelings are the same. Jesus, some people become complete douches and ignore ethics in order to cheer for a team. Thats sickening. This is a game, getting a college education is forever. Anything to win, though. Right Bama fans?
Tosh.No
January 20th, 2011
1:43 pm
Oh no someone called me a douche. Grow up rednecks and get a life.
Tide Rising
January 20th, 2011
1:44 pm
“I understand if some kid wants to gray shirt, that is not a big deal to me, but to say that a kid is not as “good” as you thought he was and kick him off the team, and basically out of school for a newer athelete is disgusting and Nick Saban and the others that do this should be beaten with rebar”- Tosh.No
Tosh,
Please provide to me proof of one Bama player who was kicked off the team and lost his scholly to make room for a newer athlete at Bama. There’s a $1,000 check waiting for you if you can prove it.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
1:45 pm
“I would love for all to see background and academic checks on AJ Green, Greg Reid, Cam Newton, Nick Fairley and many many others. I can tell you that it’s not pretty.”
So where is your proof?
Tosh.No
January 20th, 2011
1:45 pm
And what are you his cheerleader Chi town. Got anything useful to say or you just here to troll it up? Didn’t think so. Anyway its clear from reading that piece right there above in Jeff’s article how ethical your coach is, and there is nothing you can say that can defend that. NOTHING.
Tide Rising
January 20th, 2011
1:46 pm
Tosh,
You sound like a rather intelligent fella calling other people rednecks. Still waiting on your proof sport.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
1:46 pm
“There is a reason the NCAA follows every move Nick Saban makes.”
Alabama is on probation until 2012. That could have something to do with it.
David
January 20th, 2011
1:46 pm
Tosh – I am NOT a Bama fan. I went to UNC. I just get tired of watching people think in lazy ways, then spill it out all over the Internet.
You keep equating the full free football ride with a college education. It’s not the same thing. I know plenty of kids who got an education without ever kicking a football or dunking a basketball. I know plenty of “underprivileged” kids who did the same thing. I tutor some on a volunteer basis. So stop preaching to me about educational equity. It’s important – and confusing it with nonsense issues like this one simply hurt the cause.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
1:47 pm
“The worst thing about oversigning is it has made me hate LSU, Auburn, Arkansas, Ole Miss, and Alabama more than I hate Florida and Tennessee, and me having a shred of respect for Florida just doesn’t feel good.”
So how do you feel about UGA having more players arrested than ANY other school in college football?
A Big Dog
January 20th, 2011
1:47 pm
Chi Town…are you a contradiction or what….a Red Neck Bamer from Chicago….is your name Musso or something
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
1:47 pm
“I just get tired of watching people think in lazy ways, then spill it out all over the Internet.”
And you’re here, why?????????????
Ted Striker
January 20th, 2011
1:48 pm
Tide Rising — You had 5 points, here are my rebuttals.
1) You say Oversigning.com “isn’t credible” however the numbers are the numbers. Also, the guy who runs oversigning is very willing to discuss/debate. If numbers/facts and a willingness to discuss them aren’t credible then what are you looking for?
2) You say (quoting you) “Kirschman was a leftover Shula recruit who played in all of 2 games in his career and in his senior year he would have sat on the bench his entire year. So what does it really matter anyway if he took a medical redshirt.” Congratulations. Your hubris fits in with oversigning.
3) You like talking about Dr. James Andrews and how he supports your position however if we were to say, call him up and ask “Tide Rising says you think such and such” do you think Dr. James Andrews would say “oh yeah, whatever Tide Rising says, yeah definitely.”
4) Gun to their head? You actually used the “nobody is putting a gun to their head” argument? That’s like something someone says before they smack their pregnant girlfriend.
5) …….
I didn’t read your point 5. I got bored.
Tosh.No
January 20th, 2011
1:50 pm
Why don’t you take that $1000 dollars and go buy some class. Or maybe put down a payment on a house so you can get out of the trailor park you live in.
And as far as proof:
Saban: “I’m not going to tell you what?” (That exit is looking mighty welcoming now.) “It’s none of your business. Alright? And don’t give me this stuff about the fans need to know, because they don’t need to know.”
Thats enough proof for me. Anything else?
JSS
January 20th, 2011
1:50 pm
Tide Rising
January 20th, 2011
1:28 pm
“How do you morons morally justify that its somehow bad for 1-2 guys to delay enrollment for 1 semester but its perfectly fine for 30 schollys- mostly to be used by young black men from poor backgrounds- to go to waste all so that you can preach and be morally smug about the supposed harmful practice of oversigning. Didn’t think that one through did ya geniuses?”
Because there are “other programs” and schools in say the State of Alabama where those same student-athletes can go to college and be better suited for their future.
‘Tide Rising,’ I generally enjoy your posts; but, you’re putting pride in program over the general best interest of all parties… Alabama football can succeed on the merit of its history and quality of the coaching leadership. Then why don’t you guys let that play out?
David
January 20th, 2011
1:50 pm
Crybaby — Oh so clever. When you actually have an argument — which does require a cognitive investment – feel free to have at it.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
1:51 pm
Ted Striker
You just don’t understand Bama logic. To a Bama fan, Bama never loses, they just let other teams win. Whenever Bama doesn’t go undefeated, the entire college football season is a down year. When Auburn wins, the SEC really sucks.
See where I’m going?
Judge Smails
January 20th, 2011
1:51 pm
Why not kick them out after a year if they are underperforming. All of these kids have been competing all of their lives to be on the team anyway. They understand from high school on that if you do not perform you do not make the team. Might as well teach them the lesson early on….besides they had one free year of college that others did not have. If they then choose not to take advantage of it then…..”The world needs ditch diggers too!!”
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
1:52 pm
“Oh so clever. ”
Since when did making an observation become “clever?”
“When you actually have an argument — which does require a cognitive investment – feel free to have at it.”
You must be on the rag.
A Big Dog
January 20th, 2011
1:53 pm
Crybaby dawg fans…. you and your foul mouth need to tone it down or leave
Bring Back Wally Butts
January 20th, 2011
1:53 pm
The airlines overbook too. Problem is sometimes everyone shows up for their flight and they have to pay people to “volunteer” to take the next available flight.
Are we suggesting that the NCAA isn’t a big business? Even if we were that naive, this year should have removed all doubt about the “amateur” status of college football. Dictionary.com:
noun
1. a person who engages in a study, sport, or other activity for pleasure rather than for financial benefit or professional reasons.
Personally, I have no problem with oversigning given the financial and fan importance of SEC football. Let’s face it, do 18 year old kids do what they say they will (see signing day) and not change their minds when they are 19 or get into trouble along the way (see UGA arrest record)? If I were an SEC coach making $mm, I wouldn’t let an 18 year old pampered kid from the ‘hood hang me, my team or my fans out to dry.
It’s a business, folks.
Tide Rising
January 20th, 2011
1:54 pm
Tosh,
Perhaps you and BG need some help in reading comprehension. In the case of the one single Bama player in the WSJ article who was bitter about being placed on medical scholarship his senior year he was at Bama for 5 years and Bama paid for his masters degree education.
“Saban could care less about a young man getting a college education.”-BG
Uh, BG Bama paid for Kirschman’s masters and his undergrad degree. What again is your point?
“If a player gets a career ending injury Saban will boot him off the team!”- BG
bg,
Help me out here sport. I’m still trying to understand your logic- or lack thereof. So Saban is expected to keep a player on the roster even though he has a career ending injury in which case he can’t really play? Something wrong with putting him on medical redshirt and paying for him to finish his education AND get his master’s degree. Get back to me on that one genius.
David
January 20th, 2011
1:54 pm
Crybaby — “On the rag?” Really? Insults are boring enough, but even cyberspace costs something. Avoid the cliches.
Chi Town
January 20th, 2011
1:56 pm
Saban owns the state of GA.
Has a house in Lake Burton and Bryant Denny Stadium East is located over in that dump they call Athens. Sanford and Son Stadium is our 2nd home.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
1:57 pm
“you and your foul mouth need to tone it down or leave”
1: What did I say that was foul?
2: How are you going to make me leave?
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
1:57 pm
“Insults are boring enough, but even cyberspace costs something. Avoid the cliches.”
Grow a pair.
Tosh.No
January 20th, 2011
1:58 pm
Tosh – I am NOT a Bama fan. I went to UNC. I just get tired of watching people think in lazy ways, then spill it out all over the Internet.
You keep equating the full free football ride with a college education. It’s not the same thing. I know plenty of kids who got an education without ever kicking a football or dunking a basketball. I know plenty of “underprivileged” kids who did the same thing. I tutor some on a volunteer basis. So stop preaching to me about educational equity. It’s important – and confusing it with nonsense issues like this one simply hurt the cause.
Was there a point somehwere in there? Yes, other people can go to college without playing football. No one said anything about they could not. I am saying that if a kid is picked by a coach to play for a team, and he can and is still willing to play for that team for the 4 years he has of eligibilty, then he should not have to worry about underperforming on that team and losing his scholly. That is un-ethical, and wrong in my opinion. Planty of teams have guys that don’t get to play a lot because someone else is better, but those teams don’t kick them off to find a better guy to play. College football is a game. Not a business.
Sopwith Camel
January 20th, 2011
1:58 pm
In a “Pollyanna” world, there would be no recruiting and universities would field sports teams from the universe of students are enrolled. There would be no making allowances for lower academic admission standards for athletes……everyone has the same standards. This would eliminate what amounts to putting together “professional” teams of athletes to represent the university when the university does not care one iota whether the kids go to classes there or not.
But that ‘ain’t’ going to happen and we’re stuck with sleasy recruiting tactics and dishonest ways of getting kids admitted who would never otherwise quality. For example, can you imagine for one minute the response that the football players at Ga. Tech or UGA would receive if they did not play football and they sent in their admission applications along with every other high school kid? I doubt seriously if any would be accepted. But because they play sports……OK, sure, let them in and we’ll bask in their on-the-field accomplishments and they will make us feel good about ourselves…….we just don’t mind that they may be dumber than dirt and don’t have any reason being in college. Just like the Roman gladiator days!! Go round them up, let them kill each other in the arena, and we’ll enjoy the view!!
wxwax
January 20th, 2011
2:00 pm
I just don’t understand what the NCAA stands for anymore.
Oversigning is a practice which clearly defeats the intent of squad limits.
And it hurts competitiveness in college football. The advent of squad limits is what led to the end of dominion by the old time powers and made upsets the order of the day in college football.
The fact that the NCAA, once again, does nothing in the face of obvious wrongdoing calls into question the reasons for its existence.
PHIL
January 20th, 2011
2:00 pm
RtideR the best indication of future behavior is past behavior. UGA has never done this to a player why do you think they would now? Especially one who can run 4,42? Many other schools would have offered this kid after his grades were good enough. He just took an offical trip to your school for goodness sake. So don’t ever bet he will be run off at UGA.
The other thing to be gleaned from your post as far as basing future behavior on past behavior is that you will continue to say moronic things in public.
A Big Dog
January 20th, 2011
2:00 pm
Crybaby dawg fans…. I will gladley report the incident to the owner of the blog…the AJC…they’ll make you leave
Navy92
January 20th, 2011
2:01 pm
What a waste of a story. You can only have 85 on scholarship. Bama, and every other school, abides by that rule every year. Only Nick Saban knows what’s going on at his program. Outsiders do not. I just wish people would stop trying to make a big deal out of something that is not a big deal. The rules are being followed.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:01 pm
“I just don’t understand what the NCAA stands for anymore.”
Not
Charging
Auburn with
Anything.
Tide Rising
January 20th, 2011
2:02 pm
JSS,
My point is that the players have freedom in choosing where to play and the few players that have to take a grayshirt due to oversigning are fully aware of this in the recruiting process. They don’t have to sign with Bama. Also, Bama under Saban I believe has only grayshirted 1-2 players in the past 2 years. I do know that 2 of these players- Kellen Williams and Wilson Love- suffered knee injuries their senior years in high school. They wouldn’t have been ready to play big time football anyway so they knew they would greyshirt. I see no fault with that.
Last, this all really started when Saban signed 32 players in his first full recruiting class in 08 and that’s when all the howling started. What really happened. 2 players went pro baseball. 3-4 didn’t academically qualify and had to go JUCO, and if I rememer correctly 2 had high school injuries such as ACL tears and did not enroll.
When it was all said and done Bama was actually one under the scholly limit when the class reported in the summer of 08. Funny but that never got reported and that is why we oversign- due to natural attrition.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:03 pm
“I will gladley report the incident to the owner of the blog…the AJC…they’ll make you leave”
OH NO!!!!!!!!!!! Some faceless blogger is gonna tattle tell on me!!!!!!!!!!! Dude, quit while you’re behind.
Again: Please point out what I’ve said that “offends” you.
5150 P.O.A.D
January 20th, 2011
2:03 pm
GCS
Cooper Taylor lost his starting job and transfered to RICHMOND.
I still talk to Jordan all the time. He was not run off. He knew he wouldn’t win the starting QB job so he left for Cincinnati. It is closer to home for him too.
I Guess you think Jaybo Shaw was run off too.
I don’t know what happen to Chris Jackson but he is at Alabama now.
I don’t know what happened to Q Sims
Tosh.No
January 20th, 2011
2:03 pm
Since when are we talking about Medical Scholly’s? We are discussing that article that you clicked on to join in this message board. It is discussing the practice of grayshirting and kicking people off teams to make room for better players. Jesus, get hooked on phonics or something.
Anyway, done arguing with jacka$$ rednecks with no job.
SouthGaBrave
January 20th, 2011
2:04 pm
JSS,
Not to nitpick, but AJ Bryant played at Peach County High in Fort Valley. Charles Johnson was from Hawkinsville…..
Brian Saul
January 20th, 2011
2:05 pm
I agree with BYTE-ME.
A Scholly should be for 4 years. If Saban and his boys thought you were good enough to offer a scholly too, then you should be good enough for 4 years. If you don’t graduate in 4 years, that is your fault.
If the team cuts you, you should be able to play D1 right away. The schools should have to cut after spring practice and that would give these kids time to get to another school. If you want to transfer, you sit out a year. If they keep you, they give you a scholly and it counts towards the 85.
They should probably also put in some type of practice player/academic scholly. If you sign with a team and you don’t play, they can put you on that type of scholly, but you can not dress or play. If you get good, they can move you to a football scholly, but only the following year. If you want to transfer and they agree, you can play D1 the next year. If you want to transfer and they wont let you, they have to give you a football scholly and it counts towards the 85.
Get rid of the medical crap, they are abusing it and some guys are getting put on it that have nothing wrong. If you are going to give a kid a medical scholly, give him an acidemic schooly and he cant play anymore.
Keep greyshirts but when a kid signs his LOI on NSD, it is a different LOI that says he is a grey shirt. Nothing hidden. He starts on the team next year.
Give every team 28 LOIs per year and this included Juco guys and everything. Each team would basically start spring practice with 112 players or less (I think thats right). If you greyshirt a guy, he is an LOI for the following year.
Those are just some quick thoughts and not really complete. Needs some work so I welcome any ideas.
tcraig
January 20th, 2011
2:08 pm
Schultz-
Interesting timing on your column with 2 big recruits deciding between UA and UGA this evening. What else can you dig up between now and then. BTW – it works both ways. How many colleges did Cam Newton attend?
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:09 pm
“How many colleges did Cam Newton attend?”
Three. Whats your point?
CW
January 20th, 2011
2:11 pm
I hesitate to inter the fray, but oversigning is wrong and is one more reason college footbal as currently organized must end. Athletic scholarships should end. College footbal has become so corrupt as evidenced by: 1) the practice of oversigning; 2) Injuries (especially concussions and leg injuries), which put the students lives, and quality of life, at risk; 3) Academics evidenced by a 30% greater likelihood of acceptance to Ivy League schools for athletes independent of their academic credentials, poor graduation rates (NCAA is making progress, but only by threatening to reduce scholarships), which means the schools are failing the student-athlete; and 4) General corruption of the academic purpose of universities/colleges evidenced by boosters and agents paying the sudent athletes or their families, preferential treatment (schools (high school and university level) appear ambiguous about managing situations of chronic law breaking and gender violence, academic fraud such as Florida State Un and Un of North Carolina scandals (classes taken at nonaccredited online universities, tutors preparing papers, lack of academic supervision, etc.). It is time for the NFL teams to establish their own farm systems and for universities to refocus on their prime objective — higher education of smart young adults.
David
January 20th, 2011
2:11 pm
Tosh — Pick one. You started by complaining that the kid was being denied an education – “to go there and LEARN.” That’s not happening, and since we’re now focusing on football, I guess we’ve made that much progress.
If you think a school should make a $200,000 investment in a kid based solely on his high school performance, without ever having an opportunity to revisit that based on their college performance, then more power to you. No other organization – business or academic – works that way.
Again, the programs are doing more to help these kids land on their feet – either at the same school or a different one — than any school ever does to help a kid who pulled a 2.8 and lost their academic scholarship. What’s “shameful” enough about that to “beat someone with rebar”?
Skitty Fritty
January 20th, 2011
2:11 pm
Wasn’t Bama pre-season #1 with the returning Heisman Trophy winner? Didn’t Bama finish with 3 losses just like the year UGA was pre-season #1 and finished with 3 losses.
Sounds like Saban is turning into Mark Richt.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:12 pm
“Sounds like Saban is turning into Mark Richt.”
Except Saban has two national titles on his resume.
JSS
January 20th, 2011
2:12 pm
Sopwith Camel
January 20th, 2011
1:58 pm
“In a “Pollyanna” world, there would be no recruiting and universities would field sports teams from the universe of students are enrolled. There would be no making allowances for lower academic admission standards for athletes……everyone has the same standards. This would eliminate what amounts to putting together “professional” teams of athletes to represent the university when the university does not care one iota whether the kids go to classes there or not.”
Funny, it works in the Ivy League and D-III… But, oops, funny, they somehow still “recruit.”
Willie Nelson
January 20th, 2011
2:13 pm
Mama’s Don’t let your Babies Play for Saban
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:14 pm
“Mama’s Don’t let your Babies Play for Saban”
Why, because you want your babies to grow up and go 6-7 at UGA?
Joe Tech
January 20th, 2011
2:14 pm
Just read where Peachtree TV dropped THREE Georgia games for next season.
Tosh.No
January 20th, 2011
2:14 pm
Former Alabama football players say the school’s No. 1-ranked football program has tried to gain a competitive edge by encouraging some underperforming players to quit the team for medical reasons, even in cases where the players are still healthy enough to play. At least 12 times since coach Nick Saban took over the program in 2007, Alabama has offered players a “medical” scholarship, according to public statements made by the team. These scholarships, which are allowed under NCAA rules, are intended to make sure scholarship athletes who are too injured to play don’t lose their financial aid. A player who receives one of these scholarships is finished playing with that team. Three Alabama players who’ve taken these exemptions say they believe the team uses the practice as a way to clear spots for better players by cutting players it no longer wants. These players said they believe Mr. Saban and his staff pressure some players to take these scholarships even though their injuries aren’t serious enough to warrant keeping them off the field. “I’m still kind of bitter,” said former Alabama linebacker Chuck Kirschman, who took a medical scholarship last year. Mr. Kirschman said Mr. Saban encouraged him to accept the scholarship because of a back problem that he believes he could have played through. “It’s a business,” Mr. Kirschman said. “College football is all about politics. And this is a loophole in the system.”
I’ll just leave this right here. Yeah some of them got to finish school and that is cool, but to encourage players to take them that were still healthy enough to play is not ethical. There is no defending those actions, so anything douche rising or the others have to say to even try to defend it is absurd.
Bishop Eddie Longs Red Panties
January 20th, 2011
2:14 pm
Im a tide rising cheerleader and you Tosh.No are a Idiot =P
Skitty Fritty
January 20th, 2011
2:14 pm
Crybaby dawg fans….
When does a Bama fan care about a LSU national title?
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:15 pm
“Just read where Peachtree TV dropped THREE Georgia games for next season.”
Yeah, they wanted something that would actually attract viewers.
Jason
January 20th, 2011
2:15 pm
There’s not a gray area on this issue. It’s black and white. If you don’t like the practice, ban it. But don’t act like coaches are skirting the rules on this one if they over-sign players. It is 100% within the rules.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:15 pm
“When does a Bama fan care about a LSU national title?”
You should ask that question to a Bama fan.
Willie Nelson
January 20th, 2011
2:16 pm
Crybaby dawg fans:
No, because you don’t want them to blow a huge lead against Auburn and get their tails whipped again by the Tigers!
David
January 20th, 2011
2:16 pm
Lovely. We’re now proposing the complete reorganization of college football based on out-of-context anecdotes that apply to less than 1% of all players. I believe Aristotle called this pathos.
Tide Rising
January 20th, 2011
2:17 pm
“It is discussing the practice of grayshirting and kicking people off teams to make room for better players.” Tosh.No
Tosh,
We are indeed still discussing kicking people off teams to make room for better players. And I’m still asking you to provide evidence of just one single player at Bama who was booted off the team and denied an education to make room for an incoming player. I even offered $1,000 for you to provide proof of this yet you still refuse to cite an example. Why?
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:17 pm
“No, because you don’t want them to blow a huge lead against Auburn and get their tails whipped again by the Tigers!”
WAR DAMN EAGLE!!!!!!!!!
Willie Nelson
January 20th, 2011
2:18 pm
You didn’t have to cuss!
JSS
January 20th, 2011
2:18 pm
SouthGaBrave
January 20th, 2011
2:04 pm
JSS,
“Not to nitpick, but AJ Bryant played at Peach County High in Fort Valley. Charles Johnson was from Hawkinsville.”
Not a “nitpick” at all, thanks for setting me straight…
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:20 pm
“You didn’t have to cuss!”
You obviously don’t know anything about Auburn football. Did you pay your taxes?
Bishop Eddie Longs Red Panties
January 20th, 2011
2:20 pm
Come on Tosh Rah! Rah! to Tide Rising $1000.00 Dollars waiting on you!!!!!!
monkey on Richts back
January 20th, 2011
2:21 pm
Keep on whining and complaining UGA fans, this is why YGA is so poorly run and. Is now a bottom feeder in the conference.
If UGA was not a member of the best conference in football you would be another BYU.
Outworked, outplayed and out recruited, the new UGA motto
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:24 pm
“Outworked, outplayed and out recruited, the new UGA motto”
I thought the new motto was “please don’t get arrested.”
Willie Nelson
January 20th, 2011
2:24 pm
No I didn’t pay my taxes, but I did take my toilet paper to Toomers Corner.
monkey on Richts back
January 20th, 2011
2:24 pm
Hey Auburn,
J. Massey cut a deal with the feds and he is telling. ALL. The 302’s are going to be interesting reading.
Who will cut the next deal?
Not good news for Auburn.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:26 pm
“J. Massey cut a deal with the feds and he is telling. ALL”
Link please.
Tide Rising
January 20th, 2011
2:27 pm
Tosh.No @2:14pm,
Perhaps you didn’t read the article sir. In the headline the WSJ states that 3 Bama players were bitter about being placed on medical scholarship. If you actually READ the article you will see that the only player who was bitter was Kirschman. The other 2 players willingly took their medical schollies and did not have a negative comment about Bama or Saban in the article. Go back and READ THE ARTICLE!
And once again I will defer to the expert advice of the medical staff and the world renowned Dr. James Andrews over the opinion of someone like yourself who has an opinion based on what?- some slam and blatantly misleading article?
As for the one bitter player Kirschman does it really matter? He was the very bottom of the whole team and wouldn’t have played one snap. It should also be noted that Bama paid for 5 years of education for the young man including his masters degree.
Please explain to me why the young man should have stayed on the team further risking injury in practice if he never would have played a single snap in a game anyway? Please explain the logic of that sir.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:28 pm
monkey on Richts back
Can you please post a link to your comment? I can’t find anything about what you’re talking about.
monkey on Richts back
January 20th, 2011
2:31 pm
On the Blackberry now, give me an hour. Al.com mentioned it in sundays paper in the main section after he changed his plea to guilty and he fired his attorney(the same attorney used by MM and Lowder) and his new attorney said he was working with the investigators in Alexandria Virginia to get him out of Alabama.
Let me get back and I will link it up.
Alphare
January 20th, 2011
2:32 pm
It’s me or the oversigning.com? Alabama will have more than 10 seniors to graduate(15?), some juniors leap to NFL(3?). And currently Alabama has 21 or 22 commits.
Where does the 10 come from by oversigning.com?
Delusional SEC fans
January 20th, 2011
2:32 pm
have an excuse for everything. Let’s be clear- No, everyone doesn’t do it. Only you do. Also, yes, it is a question of ethics and your’s are very, very ambiguous. Face it, your character and values pay a very steep price for all of your own field success… but enjoy it anyway. SEC fans are good at two things, rationalizing and being morbidly obese. How’s that type 2 diabetes treating you?
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:35 pm
“On the Blackberry now, give me an hour.”
You sound like Kenny Rogers. Be careful not to drop your blackberry in the toilet.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:37 pm
“SEC fans are good at two things, rationalizing and being morbidly obese. ”
What a stupid comment.
DC
January 20th, 2011
2:37 pm
last article on massey was back in DEC 21…..
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:37 pm
“Al.com mentioned it in sundays paper in the main section after he changed his plea to guilty and he fired his attorney(the same attorney used by MM and Lowder) and his new attorney said he was working with the investigators in Alexandria Virginia to get him out of Alabama.”
So what does that have to do with anything?
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:38 pm
“last article on massey was back in DEC 21…..”
Yep, I just read it. Nothing new.
I scanned al.com and there is nothing new about anything.
Willie Nelson
January 20th, 2011
2:38 pm
Crybaby dawg fans:
It’s ok to be morbidly obese. Your Mom still loves you.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:39 pm
“It’s ok to be morbidly obese. Your Mom still loves you.”
Is that the best you can do, tax evader?
Willie Nelson
January 20th, 2011
2:40 pm
How is Jarrod Massey connected with Auburn? Here is the article from yesterday
http://blog.al.com/wire/2011/01/former_casino_lobbyist_jarrod.html
Tide Rising
January 20th, 2011
2:40 pm
Alphare,
On top of what you stated we already have 1-2 players who will not academically qualify in time to enroll and will have to go juco route for a year or 2, 1 player is transferring for lack of playing time which happense everywhere, and 1-2 players who had severe knee injuries in high school that will keep them out of the 2011 season are expected to grayshirt because they will not be ready in time for the season. When we factor in those additional numbers we will end up okay.
The reason it doesn’t look that way with this guy on oversigning.com is because this is one guy using wordpress who really doesn’t know what’s going on inside each and every program out there. He has no clue about injury situations, academic and discipline casualties,etc. He is just one guy with an opinion and wordpress.
Incidentally I think your AU tigers took 32 committments last year. I’ve no problem whatsoever with that because Chizik knew the numbers including academic casualties and AU, like everyone else, ended up at the appropriate numbers.
Willie Nelson
January 20th, 2011
2:41 pm
Crybaby dawg fans:
My quarterly estimated tax payment is more than you make in a year. Let me know if you don’t know what a quarterly estimated tax payment is.
monkey on Richts back
January 20th, 2011
2:42 pm
Hey dummy, some of us have real jobs and work takes precedence over helping you do research.
When I am back in a position where I am not sitting in downtown traffic I will be more than happy to point you in the right direction.
MikeP? It has to be you copying and pasting again, or is it ha ha, mindy…others have slapped you down on these blogs,
You must ne into s and m as much as you like getting beat down on a daily basis.
KimZ'sPackage
January 20th, 2011
2:43 pm
I love all the pretty young girls on SEC campuses during football season. Problem is they all turn out fat and discusting like their moms. Pretty from 16 to 26 after that it is a crap shoot on the weight scale.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:44 pm
“How is Jarrod Massey connected with Auburn? Here is the article from yesterday”
Try again, tax evader. There is nothing in the article about Auburn.
Concern
January 20th, 2011
2:44 pm
Great informative article. Keep up the pressure on the issue of over signing giving a coach an unfair advantage.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:45 pm
“My quarterly estimated tax payment is more than you make in a year. ”
And you know this how, moron?
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:46 pm
“Hey dummy, some of us have real jobs and work takes precedence over helping you do research.”
That may be the dumbest comment today. You work yet you are here blogging! Priceless.
“When I am back in a position where I am not sitting in downtown traffic I will be more than happy to point you in the right direction.”
Ok, so you’re putting other people’s lives in danger by blogging………..
jasont13
January 20th, 2011
2:47 pm
What pisses people of about the over signing issue is the fact that if a kid is given a scholarship and after one year it’s pulled or he is asked to transfer so another player can he his scholarship, this kid has to sit out a year and miss out of a season of football. That is what pisses people off with this issue.
monkey on Richts back
January 20th, 2011
2:49 pm
The article was in the financial business quarterly on Jan 14, and blurbed in the montgomery ad.
On sunday. The article was about options that others have and that on april 9th the 302’s will be released on the day the trial starts.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:50 pm
monkey on Richts back
So……..that has what to do with Auburn? You really aren’t smart are you.
Lakedawg
January 20th, 2011
2:53 pm
What a bunch if idiots on here today. Will be good news for Dawgs tonight, Rome and Mitchell.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:53 pm
monkey on Richts back
You sound like all the other goobers who get their info from tiger droppings. Nothing but conspiracy theories.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:53 pm
“What a bunch if idiots on here today.”
Hey, when you call someone an idiot, can you at least proof read your insult so you don’t look like one?
monkey on Richts back
January 20th, 2011
2:54 pm
Crybaby, mikep,mindy, ha ha toof…it had to be you,
Never answered the question last time I asked you,
When was the last time a team won a BCS title and ESPN runs a scroll. Poll asking if Auburns title was TAINTED?
Over 80 percent said yes just like your 1957 team…..
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:56 pm
“When was the last time a team won a BCS title and ESPN runs a scroll. Poll asking if Auburns title was TAINTED?”
I had no idea ESPN polls affected National Titles.
“Over 80 percent said yes just like your 1957 team…..”
And this matters why?
BTW, didn’t you say that you were driving in traffic? If so, please do us all a favor and STFU and concentrate on driving.
monkey on Richts back
January 20th, 2011
2:56 pm
You are the only idiot on here and everyone recognizes it.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:57 pm
“You are the only idiot on here and everyone recognizes it.”
Says the gal who’s texting while driving.
You never did answer my question: What does the article you posted have to do with Auburn?
Tide Rising
January 20th, 2011
2:58 pm
“What pisses people of about the over signing issue is the fact that if a kid is given a scholarship and after one year it’s pulled or he is asked to transfer so another player can he his scholarship, this kid has to sit out a year and miss out of a season of football. That is what pisses people off with this issue” -jasont13
Jason,
That would tick any one off. What I’m trying to convey is the fact that this rarely if ever happens. I can’t think of one SEC school that basically just cuts players after a year and yanks their scholly. It doesn’t happen. Its just misleading articles like this one that give that impression. And the only kids who are asked to transfer are kids with serious disciplinary problems and that happens everywhere. Other than that I can’t think of a single program here in SEC country that basically just boots players after one year other than for disciplinary actions.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:58 pm
“You are the only idiot on here and everyone recognizes it.”
Define everyone, troglodyte.
jasont13
January 20th, 2011
2:58 pm
Crybaby dawg fans….
January 20th, 2011
2:15 pm
“Just read where Peachtree TV dropped THREE Georgia games for next season.”
Yeah, they wanted something that would actually attract viewers.
Not sure where you saw this but it was not in the article at ajc.com. Interesting how there is nothing on the internet to prove your claim….Funny how you just try to spread rumors and show your hatred to a school.
monkey on Richts back
January 20th, 2011
2:59 pm
In a Limo you dummy, but I am pulling into my office, sorry you are the !-//24( LOSER.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:59 pm
jasont13
I didn’t make the statement about Peachtree TV dropping UGA games. Try again, Forrest.
“.Funny how you just try to spread rumors and show your hatred to a school.”
What rumor?
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
3:00 pm
“In a Limo you dummy, but I am pulling into my office, sorry you are the !-//24( LOSER.’
Oh, so you’re a limo driver.
Paul N Destin
January 20th, 2011
3:00 pm
Cry me a river folks. UGA doesn’t have a problem culling folks they just allow the prison system to do handle! Nick doesn’t run off folks unless they fail drug test or other personal issues. Nick has used the medical scholly many times but that allows the kid to complete their education!!! Only the team doctor can advise Nick on use of the medical scholly!!What you UGA fans need is a coach and the will to win. The Ga Tech fans need to consider 7 man football. Dodd left the SEC because he was a softy and couldn’t handle it when Bryant arrived and made him work for a living. Get off your azz stop the bit*ch*ing! Losers
gdawginkalamazoo
January 20th, 2011
3:00 pm
How much trouble is that Massey guy looking at? Gee, please let me IN prison before I get hurt out here.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
3:01 pm
“UGA doesn’t have a problem culling folks they just allow the prison system to do handle!”
Bingo.
Scooter
January 20th, 2011
3:01 pm
It is amazing how many DA’s (like Jeff) write, blog, and vent about firing coaches who do not win enough (CMR), then blast the coaches who do what it takes to win. Want to talk character, why don’t you blast those who call for firings? Jeff, how’s the view up on that pedistal? You have a bully pulpit with moron followers. Count me as one of them. I was stupid enough to read your crap and respond to it. We all get dumber by the day with the Democrats in power. (I had to throw in a liberal jab at Jeff, too. What a tool!)
Bodda Getta
January 20th, 2011
3:03 pm
Those in favor of the existing rules have made credible points here on why the current system works and is best for the player.
Those opposed (the Georgia fans) have made nothing but juvenile insults.
Judge Smails
January 20th, 2011
3:04 pm
Looks like someone riled up the cow college……
Sportsrealist
January 20th, 2011
3:04 pm
I’d hate do be Nick Saban’s kid. Seems like every time someone questions his “all powerfulness” he starts yelling. Seems like he could ….I don’t know….come up with an educated answer. Better yet, he could try generating a little ethical standard so these questions wouldn’t have to be asked. We all know that’s not gunna happen.
jasont13
January 20th, 2011
3:05 pm
Interesting, you didn’t make that comment? Hmm well this was copied from page 4.
Crybaby dawg fans….
January 20th, 2011
2:15 pm
“Just read where Peachtree TV dropped THREE Georgia games for next season.”
Yeah, they wanted something that would actually attract viewers.
I guess that was someone else using your name that posted that.
Nick Saban
January 20th, 2011
3:07 pm
Sportsrealist,
Jealous are we? Go back to being a 6-7 loser son.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
3:07 pm
“I guess that was someone else using your name that posted that.”
I guess you can’t read, Forrest. See below
Joe Tech
January 20th, 2011
2:14 pm
Just read where Peachtree TV dropped THREE Georgia games for next season.
Sportsrealist
January 20th, 2011
3:08 pm
@Nick Saban
Way to dodge the real issue of this article.
Bama
January 20th, 2011
3:09 pm
Shawn you are crazy. You said Nick Saban is not a good evaluaor of talent. He is regarded by most experts as one of the best evaluators of talent in the country. There are stories after stories of him recruiting kids long before other schools are, and then the other schools join the party.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
3:09 pm
“Interesting, you didn’t make that comment? Hmm well this was copied from page 4.”
You should actually look at WHO made the statement about UGA not being on Peachtree TV, Forrest. I just commented that Peachtree wanted to attract viewers. If you actually looked at the tv ratings for UGA football, you’d see where viewership dropped off tremendously after the Arkansas game.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
3:10 pm
Bama
dawg fans are angry and upset because their program is now on par with Vandy and Ole Miss.
Bodda Getta
January 20th, 2011
3:10 pm
The real issue of the article is that it is no one else’s business how a school manages its own scholarships.
Nick Saban
January 20th, 2011
3:10 pm
Sportsrealist,,
Calling Nick Saban unethical? You lost all credibility at that point and are just another jealous rival trying to tear down a winner. Saban plays with 85 scholly players ever year same as everyone else. End of story. Go back to your corner now.
Bodda Getta
January 20th, 2011
3:11 pm
Georgia is better than Vandy, but Ole Miss is in better shape than Georgia.
Ole Miss gets it.
gdawginkalamazoo
January 20th, 2011
3:13 pm
Crybaby, I hate to disagree but right now our program is in a category all by itself. We are not on par with anybody SEC or Conf USA? ACC ehhh?
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
3:14 pm
“Ole Miss gets it.”
They do?
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
3:14 pm
gdawginkalamazoo
Ok
Bodda Getta
January 20th, 2011
3:18 pm
Ole Miss maximizes their signees and it resulted in their first back-to-back nine-win seasons and new years day bowl appearances since 1962.
Yes, Ole Miss gets it.
gdawginkalamazoo
January 20th, 2011
3:18 pm
Bodda, I don’t know about Ole Miss “getting it” They did sign Masoli for a year. IMO that was a huge mistake that set them back 2-3 years in the QB dept.
WIN WITH RICHT
January 20th, 2011
3:18 pm
Auburn looks a lot like SMU did in the early 80’s when thet had Dickerson and James. They were flying high until they went down in flames. Saban is pissed because UGA gets Cootie and BAMA doesn’t.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
3:18 pm
gdawginkalamazoo
Ole Miss gave up Col. Reb to get Masoli. LOL, that turned out well!!!!!!!
Tide Rising
January 20th, 2011
3:19 pm
January 20th, 2011
3:10 pm
“The real issue of the article is that it is no one else’s business how a school manages its own scholarships.”- Bodda Getta
That statement pretty much sums it all up. This guy at wordpress does not know the numbers at each and every particular school and its inner workings as to what is actually going on.
He has no freaking clue like the coaching staff does as to which recruits are likely to academically qualify, which players buried on the depth chart are asking to transfer, which players are looking at potentially career ending injuries, which players could end up being disciplinary problems and asked to leave, the medical status of players injured in high school who may take a grayshirt, and which recruits have no problem with taking a greyshirt and delaying enrollment if the school has a numbers crunch.
Only the people intimate with the program- the coaching staff- knows all these intangibles. And yet people actually put credence in what some joe with wordpress says and gloss over or ignore all these various intangibles that only the coaching staff knows. Amazing aint it.
Will
January 20th, 2011
3:19 pm
Maybe Saban just thinks he has more than 1 coke dealer on his team.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
3:20 pm
“They were flying high until they went down in flames.”
Auburn isn’t being investigated. But please, keep on talking because I love seeing UGA/Bama fans explode whenever their theories implode.
Tweets that mention A word about 'oversigning' (and revisiting Saban's dance) | Jeff Schultz -- Topsy.com
January 20th, 2011
3:21 pm
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Jeff Aleshire, Greg Eisenman, Parrish Walton, Matt Baxendell, Jeff Schultz and others. Jeff Schultz said: A word about ‘oversigning’ (and revisiting Saban’s dance) http://bit.ly/dZISbg [...]
Bodda Getta
January 20th, 2011
3:23 pm
Face it.
For some young men, football is their best chance to excel, make a name for themselves, and provide for their families.
At Georgia’s major universities, many of these men will never get the opportunity to realize their dreams if they can not execute a linear algebra equation or diagram a sentence.
(By the way, how many of YOU can execute a linear equation today? Or diagram a sentence?)
We know that not all of the best players will be able to do these things day one.
Auburn’s approach gives the best players the opportunity to show their skills on the practice field and the weight room. If they are good enough, they will get the opportunity (either directly or through junior college) to achieve entry and demonstrate these skills on the big stage.
It pains me to agree with Coach Saban, but he is right. These scholarships do not belong to the fans. It is none of their business how they are managed as long as it is within NCAA and SEC rules. The same is true for financial assistance given to any other student.
For those students who are not the best players, we give them immediate feedback and give them the opportunity to move on and focus their time on developing other skills which will make them successful. Depending on the situation, this will happen at the university or elsewhere.
We do not let them continue waste their time under a five year delusion that they will make the NFL if they continue their football career here.
The sooner they come to this conclusion, the more time they will have to plot the course which is best for them.
This is how real life works. We do not operate a baby sitting center, or live in some self-righteous fantasy world.
NCAA has lost sight of mission, needs to end ‘oversigning’ | Jeff Schultz
January 20th, 2011
3:28 pm
[...] in September quoted three Alabama players who were given medical redshirts. All said they believe coach Nick Saban tries to use the exemptions to clear roster spots for better players. Houston Nutt currently has 26 commitments for 15 spots, according to [...]
Loyal Dawg
January 20th, 2011
3:28 pm
This isn’t that hard folks. The primary reason for “oversigning” is that usually a handful of recruits fail to qualify academically. Simply don’t allow a letter of intent to be signed until a kid is qualified academically. A kid that doesn’t qualify academically is usually steered to a JC anyway and can transfer in later when qualified. Force all of these coaches to recruit academically qualified kids.
gdawginkalamazoo
January 20th, 2011
3:28 pm
Crybaby, yes I forgot about that one…. The Ole Miss Black Bear is spending the offseason as a greeter at Dollywood with its parents.
dj
January 20th, 2011
3:30 pm
I think oversigning should be banned, along with trying to get money from a school for your kid or using your athletic status to get free tattoos.
WIN WITH RICHT
January 20th, 2011
3:30 pm
Crybaby
You sound like the preacher that got caught naked in some hooker’s bed, Then claims his innocence. And blames it all on some conspiracy led by Satan.
Grammar Man
January 20th, 2011
3:31 pm
Saban, et. al. engage in a practice that encourages the athletes they bring on board to not earn a degree from the school. I’m not blind enough to think these kids are there for an education, but running a kid off from the school is beyond unethical. As for the comparisons to Marcus Dowtin and GTU transfers, there is a big difference between a school going from 84 to 83 schollies in January and a school going from 97 to 85 over the course of the summer. The first is natural attrition. The second is blatant running kids off.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
3:31 pm
“You sound like the preacher that got caught naked in some hooker’s bed, Then claims his innocence. And blames it all on some conspiracy led by Satan.”
You mean Jesse Jackson?
Sportsrealist
January 20th, 2011
3:31 pm
Nick Saban,
Your idea of ethical must be different from mine. I guess forcing player to leave the program is OK with you. The link to the Wall Street Journal article states this specifically. (you should try clicking on it, it’s in blue letters) This is the problem with back woods Role Tide homers like you. You regurgitate what you hear Bubba in the third trailer down from you say to try to justify the actions of a proven cheat just so you can have something to say to the Auburn fan who works at the same auto body shop that you do. If you’re Ok with this type of action, than I hope it happens to one of you illegitimate children so you can see how it makes them feel. FEEL…..there’s a novel idea for you. “End of story.” You can go back to you trailer now.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
3:32 pm
WIN WITH RICHT
Nothing will happen to Auburn. Period.
Ken Stallings
January 20th, 2011
3:32 pm
Oversigning is akin to cheating and the NCAA should treat it that way. Worried about non-qualifiers? Then don’t sign kids with questionable academic standings! Wait until they actually meet the published requirements before you offer!
The reality is coaches do this because they try to prevent rival schools from signing these players. If they keep them on an LOI or actual scholarship long enough, they can then employ a college waiver wire and relegate the kid to a lower division school because the rival universities already filled their quotas.
You might want to take a look at what Butch Davis did at UNC over the last several years. He is a big culprit in this area. When you combine that with the obvious agent and academic fraud issues at UNC, it points to a coach who doesn’t have much respect for the rules that govern his conduct.
I am glad to see you researching and writing about this issue. It is a real problem and the NCAA needs some serious pressure put on them to crack down on this. While the NCAA worries about petty issues of how many phone calls can be placed to a recruit, they willfully ignore this oversigning issue, which is clearly a significantly worse issue.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
3:33 pm
“Auburn fan who works at the same auto body shop that you do. ”
Yeah, but that Auburn fan is just there getting new tires on his Mercedes.
Judge Smails
January 20th, 2011
3:36 pm
Auburn fans plow the fields with Mercedes??
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
3:37 pm
“Auburn fans plow the fields with Mercedes??”
No, they just tell the Bama fan where to plow.
Judge Smails
January 20th, 2011
3:38 pm
Did they pick up fuzzy dice for the Mercedes also? What about curb finders and a nice crown air freshner? Awbarn exudes class….
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
3:39 pm
“Did they pick up fuzzy dice for the Mercedes also? What about curb finders and a nice crown air freshner? Awbarn exudes class….”
Comeback fail, turd.
Judge Smails
January 20th, 2011
3:39 pm
I didn’t know junior told Daddy where to plow…..I thought it was the other way around.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
3:40 pm
“I didn’t know junior told Daddy where to plow…..I thought it was the other way around.”
You must be related to David Duke.
Judge Smails
January 20th, 2011
3:40 pm
I see our blog expert has mastered the cut and paste function…..can’t get anything past this Einstein.
gdawginkalamazoo
January 20th, 2011
3:41 pm
I thought GPS told the farmers where to plow?
I love how these blogs always work there way around to preachers in bed with naked hookers.
Judge Smails
January 20th, 2011
3:41 pm
Who is this David Duke you speak of? Awbarn grad?
Judge Smails
January 20th, 2011
3:42 pm
Judges like hookers too…….
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
3:44 pm
“Who is this David Duke you speak of?”
A member of the KKK like you.
gdawginkalamazoo
January 20th, 2011
3:45 pm
See there is a perfect example. David Duke was going to be an kicker at Ole Miss but his scholarship was cut. See what happened.
Judge Smails
January 20th, 2011
3:47 pm
Ahh….going old school with the vitrol when nothing else works.
Judge Smails
January 20th, 2011
3:49 pm
Next will come the Arayan Nation comments….when your arguements fail you just simply resort to name calling
gdawginkalamazoo
January 20th, 2011
3:55 pm
The Arayan Nation never oversigns its players.
1eyedJack
January 20th, 2011
3:57 pm
Nick Satan’s heart is two sizes too small.
WIN WITH RICHT
January 20th, 2011
4:02 pm
Crybaby ! Stop living in a dream world. You know something stinks in Auburn. and it aint just the outhouses.
Judge Smails
January 20th, 2011
4:04 pm
Just win baby, win!!
woebegong
January 20th, 2011
4:14 pm
It seems to me, that a few stipulations added to the scholarship practice could end this discussion if the NCAA required them.
1. First, if the kid is not academically qualified to attend the university offering him the scholarship, there should be no JC tuition paid for by the school, he actually was recruited by. If the JC wants to give him a free ride, let them do it, but not the big school.
2. When schools are required to report their scholarship status in July, it has to be thorough and unless the kid did not meet academic standards, that school should be required to give him some type of other scholarship, so he can continue his education. I realize a lot of these kids just think of college as a fast track to the NFL, but they ought to be smart enough to face reality. I know though that there are kids out there who know, they can play on the college level but will not make the NFL. To cut them loose, unless it is for medical reasons or academic reasons should not be allowed. The kid took a chance as well as the school, so it is only fair.
3. I think that if we are going to continue this practice of over signing each recruiting year, a preliminary report should be sent to the NCAA, explaining exactly who will be losing their scholarship and for what reason. If you do not know by Feb. then you are probably going to mess up some kids life, or at least make his path in life a little harder than it should be. Be upfront with these kids and give trhem a realistic understanding of the whole process. If they can’t get it after that, they had better hope they are good enough to make it in a PRO sport because most likely, that will be their only avenue.
These kids not only represent their university, they also make the institution a fair amount of money, if they turn out to be super stars in college, The least we can do is be honest with these kids from the beginning, and if we do that, a problem will be solved.
WIN WITH RICHT
January 20th, 2011
4:18 pm
Crybaby!!! Yall going down for the long ride.
5IML
January 20th, 2011
4:23 pm
If BAMA was losing or UGA and Tech were winning, Saban and oversigning wouldn’t be an issue. As it stands, there’s a lot of griping in your Georgia.
Dumb dawgs
January 20th, 2011
4:33 pm
“You know something stinks in Auburn. and it aint just the outhouses.”
The only thing that stinks is UGA football.
Judge Smails
January 20th, 2011
4:35 pm
Looks like our Awbarn fan had to go plow the back 40.
Judge Smails
January 20th, 2011
4:37 pm
And his twin brother is back as a different moniker…..looks like brother taught him to cut and paste also. Can’t outsmart those plains people….they are S M A R T !!
ajgreen
January 20th, 2011
9:41 pm
another good article about oversigning at http://www.secsportsworld.blogspot.com
NCAA has lost sight of mission, needs to end
January 21st, 2011
12:23 am
[...] in September quoted three Alabama players who were given medical scholarships. All said they believe coach Nick Saban tries to use the exemptions to clear roster spots for better players. Houston Nutt currently has 26 commitments for 15 spots, according to [...]
chiefdawg
January 21st, 2011
8:14 am
it must not be bothering the players because Bama continues to get the best.
laugang
January 21st, 2011
8:25 am
what sad. is when a kid is “pressured” to leave they still are affected by the NCAA rule of having to sit out a year…thought one of the purposes of the NCAA was to protect the kids?
LCDawg
January 21st, 2011
12:32 pm
Sure Saban wins but he’s an absolute clown. And he has the balls to call out agents? he’s just as big of a scum bag.
Dave Schultz
January 24th, 2011
1:48 pm
The NCAA does not have a problem with the SEC’s implementation of the 85/25 rule…also, scholarships are for individual 1 year terms, not 4. If you are not productive at your occupation I rather doubt your firm will continue to provide employment.
Sounds to me like a group of insufferable whiners who are consistently taking beatings at the hands of the SEC.
NVRambo
January 24th, 2011
7:19 pm
This sure beats talking about Camgate and TheTatoo5 at OSU.
Voice of Reason
January 26th, 2011
9:37 am
Late to the story. Please do not use the does not qaulify academically rule to justify the oversignning. Some of these same programs also have the highest special admit rates as well and if a top player is not making it academically you can bet that will be fixed one way or another.