A word about ‘oversigning’ (and revisiting Saban’s dance)
The numbers show Alabama coach Nick Saban has learned creative ways to say goodbye to some players. (AP photo)
It’s the home stretch of recruiting season, which generally isn’t my favorite time of the year, partly because I find the whole concept of obsessing over where an 18-year-old goes to school as, I dunno, a little creepy.
But here’s one of my biggest issues with recruiting: The practice of “oversigning.” It’s exactly what the term says. NCAA rules mandate a football program can’t give out more than 25 scholarships in one class and have more than 85 scholarship athletes on the roster at one time. Often, the math doesn’t work.
A team may have only 18 spots open but it gives out 25 scholarships. This is “oversigning.” It’s a gray area in the rulebook. Coaches get away with it by rationalizing than some players don’t qualify. So the players are stashed at prep schools or junior colleges, while others are convinced to take medical scholarships. Others are pressured into transferring.
The fact is, some kids are run off because they didn’t turn out to be as good as coaches hoped. So much for the concept of amateur athletics.
Nick Saban is the current poster boy for this practice. The Wall Street Journal did a terrific story back in September, quoting three former Alabama players who said they were pressured into leaving the program, presumably to open spots on the roster.
The website oversigning.com is tracking school’s commitments and available slots. Currently, Mississippi and coach Houston Nutt are at plus-11, followed by Saban/Alabama at plus-10, Les Miles/LSU at plus-9 and Bobby Petrino/Arkansas at plus-8.
Suffice to say, this is a horrible practice. I’m going to expand on this topic more in a column in my next post. I spoke to former Baylor head coach Grant Teaff of the American Football Coaches Association (AFCA).
But until then, this will either amuse you or make you sick. Here’s a transcript of a conversation from 2008 between Saban and former Birmingham News staff writer Ian Rapoport (who now covers the New England Patriots for the Boston Herald). Ian’s a good guy, a solid reporter and a bit of a smart aleck, which is probably why I like him. This give-and-take between he and Saban will tell you all you need to know about how coaches try to finesse things to make the numbers work.
April 15, 2008.
By Ian Rapoport
Some questions, you can’t wait to ask. If a pitcher coming off arm surgery throws a no-hitter in his first start back, it would be fun to ask him, So how does that feel? On the other hand, there are some questions that you simply have to ask. Ya know, because it’s your job. A lot of times, it’s clear that while the answer will be valuable, the process getting there won’t be pretty. Your subject might not want to talk about it. Yeah, you might get yelled at. (Not that you mind…)
Today, after Alabama’s last spring practice, I had one of those situations. One of the big questions, I think, for the offseason is how will coach Nick Saban whittle the roster down to just 85 scholarships? There are 66 on scholarship now, and assume 25 freshman will enroll. That’s 91. So six have to go by August. How? That’s what I asked Saban today. He was entertaining as always. Let’s just say, the conversation was classic:
Me: “The numbers [are the] issue. First, do you know, is Colin Peek on scholarship?”
Saban: (Time to play dumb.) “I don’t know. You ask me, do I know…” (Bad question. Clearly, he knows.)
Me: “I think you do know.” (See?)
Saban: “You’ll have to ask somebody else.” (Cue mischievous grin) “You’re asking the wrong guy.”
Me: (Alright, come on, it’s getting late.) “He is, right?”
Saban: “Yeah.” (Round one: Me!)
Me: (The real questions) “How are you going to handle the numbers and when do you start to worry about it?”
Saban: (Getting a little loud… What, Saban worry?) “I’m not worried about them. It’ll all work out. I mean, the whole thing has a solution to every issue. You don’t put yourself in a position where you don’t know what’s coming, then have to take it in the chops.” (”Chops” is such a dad word. Not that there is anything wrong with that) “Alright? We know how it has to be managed, and it will be managed.”
(Pause)
Saban: “And you don’t need to call me and ask me to write a column for you, and I won’t call you and ask you how to manage our numbers. How’s that?”
Me: (Deal! But when did I suggest how to manage the numbers? If he did ask… I digress.) “I don’t even have a calculator.” (Can’t do math without one of those.)
Saban: (The smile returns.) “You don’t need one to do this.”
Me: (Throwing the hands up in the air.) “So you’re not going to tell us?”
Saban: “I’m not going to tell you what?” (That exit is looking mighty welcoming now.) “It’s none of your business. Alright? And don’t give me this stuff about the fans need to know, because they don’t need to know.”Me: “I would never say that.”
Saban: “Don’t even ask. Alright? So. (Starts to walk out, but he’s got one more zinger before he leaves.) Ya know, I thought we could get this one last thing without having to…” (attempt a scolding?)
Me: (Even I start to laugh at that) “You really thought that? No chance.”
Saban: (Off the podium, he can’t help giggling to himself, too) “Not with you.”
Media relations guru Jeff Purinton: (Escorting Saban out the door) “He (me) needed something to hold him over until the season…”
True. Good times…
I’ll be back later with a column on this topic. Until then, what are your thoughts on the practice of oversigning?
By Jeff Schultz
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– Time to mock! Kiper, McShay say Falcons take . . .
– Stacy Searels leaving Georgia? Can I offer him a lift?
– SEC’s get into ‘Smack Wear’ with BCS T-shirt (really?)
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296 comments Add your comment
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
3:20 pm
“They were flying high until they went down in flames.”
Auburn isn’t being investigated. But please, keep on talking because I love seeing UGA/Bama fans explode whenever their theories implode.
Tweets that mention A word about 'oversigning' (and revisiting Saban's dance) | Jeff Schultz -- Topsy.com
January 20th, 2011
3:21 pm
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Jeff Aleshire, Greg Eisenman, Parrish Walton, Matt Baxendell, Jeff Schultz and others. Jeff Schultz said: A word about ‘oversigning’ (and revisiting Saban’s dance) http://bit.ly/dZISbg [...]
Bodda Getta
January 20th, 2011
3:23 pm
Face it.
For some young men, football is their best chance to excel, make a name for themselves, and provide for their families.
At Georgia’s major universities, many of these men will never get the opportunity to realize their dreams if they can not execute a linear algebra equation or diagram a sentence.
(By the way, how many of YOU can execute a linear equation today? Or diagram a sentence?)
We know that not all of the best players will be able to do these things day one.
Auburn’s approach gives the best players the opportunity to show their skills on the practice field and the weight room. If they are good enough, they will get the opportunity (either directly or through junior college) to achieve entry and demonstrate these skills on the big stage.
It pains me to agree with Coach Saban, but he is right. These scholarships do not belong to the fans. It is none of their business how they are managed as long as it is within NCAA and SEC rules. The same is true for financial assistance given to any other student.
For those students who are not the best players, we give them immediate feedback and give them the opportunity to move on and focus their time on developing other skills which will make them successful. Depending on the situation, this will happen at the university or elsewhere.
We do not let them continue waste their time under a five year delusion that they will make the NFL if they continue their football career here.
The sooner they come to this conclusion, the more time they will have to plot the course which is best for them.
This is how real life works. We do not operate a baby sitting center, or live in some self-righteous fantasy world.
NCAA has lost sight of mission, needs to end ‘oversigning’ | Jeff Schultz
January 20th, 2011
3:28 pm
[...] in September quoted three Alabama players who were given medical redshirts. All said they believe coach Nick Saban tries to use the exemptions to clear roster spots for better players. Houston Nutt currently has 26 commitments for 15 spots, according to [...]
Loyal Dawg
January 20th, 2011
3:28 pm
This isn’t that hard folks. The primary reason for “oversigning” is that usually a handful of recruits fail to qualify academically. Simply don’t allow a letter of intent to be signed until a kid is qualified academically. A kid that doesn’t qualify academically is usually steered to a JC anyway and can transfer in later when qualified. Force all of these coaches to recruit academically qualified kids.
gdawginkalamazoo
January 20th, 2011
3:28 pm
Crybaby, yes I forgot about that one…. The Ole Miss Black Bear is spending the offseason as a greeter at Dollywood with its parents.
dj
January 20th, 2011
3:30 pm
I think oversigning should be banned, along with trying to get money from a school for your kid or using your athletic status to get free tattoos.
WIN WITH RICHT
January 20th, 2011
3:30 pm
Crybaby
You sound like the preacher that got caught naked in some hooker’s bed, Then claims his innocence. And blames it all on some conspiracy led by Satan.
Grammar Man
January 20th, 2011
3:31 pm
Saban, et. al. engage in a practice that encourages the athletes they bring on board to not earn a degree from the school. I’m not blind enough to think these kids are there for an education, but running a kid off from the school is beyond unethical. As for the comparisons to Marcus Dowtin and GTU transfers, there is a big difference between a school going from 84 to 83 schollies in January and a school going from 97 to 85 over the course of the summer. The first is natural attrition. The second is blatant running kids off.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
3:31 pm
“You sound like the preacher that got caught naked in some hooker’s bed, Then claims his innocence. And blames it all on some conspiracy led by Satan.”
You mean Jesse Jackson?
Sportsrealist
January 20th, 2011
3:31 pm
Nick Saban,
Your idea of ethical must be different from mine. I guess forcing player to leave the program is OK with you. The link to the Wall Street Journal article states this specifically. (you should try clicking on it, it’s in blue letters) This is the problem with back woods Role Tide homers like you. You regurgitate what you hear Bubba in the third trailer down from you say to try to justify the actions of a proven cheat just so you can have something to say to the Auburn fan who works at the same auto body shop that you do. If you’re Ok with this type of action, than I hope it happens to one of you illegitimate children so you can see how it makes them feel. FEEL…..there’s a novel idea for you. “End of story.” You can go back to you trailer now.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
3:32 pm
WIN WITH RICHT
Nothing will happen to Auburn. Period.
Ken Stallings
January 20th, 2011
3:32 pm
Oversigning is akin to cheating and the NCAA should treat it that way. Worried about non-qualifiers? Then don’t sign kids with questionable academic standings! Wait until they actually meet the published requirements before you offer!
The reality is coaches do this because they try to prevent rival schools from signing these players. If they keep them on an LOI or actual scholarship long enough, they can then employ a college waiver wire and relegate the kid to a lower division school because the rival universities already filled their quotas.
You might want to take a look at what Butch Davis did at UNC over the last several years. He is a big culprit in this area. When you combine that with the obvious agent and academic fraud issues at UNC, it points to a coach who doesn’t have much respect for the rules that govern his conduct.
I am glad to see you researching and writing about this issue. It is a real problem and the NCAA needs some serious pressure put on them to crack down on this. While the NCAA worries about petty issues of how many phone calls can be placed to a recruit, they willfully ignore this oversigning issue, which is clearly a significantly worse issue.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
3:33 pm
“Auburn fan who works at the same auto body shop that you do. ”
Yeah, but that Auburn fan is just there getting new tires on his Mercedes.
Judge Smails
January 20th, 2011
3:36 pm
Auburn fans plow the fields with Mercedes??
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
3:37 pm
“Auburn fans plow the fields with Mercedes??”
No, they just tell the Bama fan where to plow.
Judge Smails
January 20th, 2011
3:38 pm
Did they pick up fuzzy dice for the Mercedes also? What about curb finders and a nice crown air freshner? Awbarn exudes class….
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
3:39 pm
“Did they pick up fuzzy dice for the Mercedes also? What about curb finders and a nice crown air freshner? Awbarn exudes class….”
Comeback fail, turd.
Judge Smails
January 20th, 2011
3:39 pm
I didn’t know junior told Daddy where to plow…..I thought it was the other way around.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
3:40 pm
“I didn’t know junior told Daddy where to plow…..I thought it was the other way around.”
You must be related to David Duke.
Judge Smails
January 20th, 2011
3:40 pm
I see our blog expert has mastered the cut and paste function…..can’t get anything past this Einstein.
gdawginkalamazoo
January 20th, 2011
3:41 pm
I thought GPS told the farmers where to plow?
I love how these blogs always work there way around to preachers in bed with naked hookers.
Judge Smails
January 20th, 2011
3:41 pm
Who is this David Duke you speak of? Awbarn grad?
Judge Smails
January 20th, 2011
3:42 pm
Judges like hookers too…….
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
3:44 pm
“Who is this David Duke you speak of?”
A member of the KKK like you.
gdawginkalamazoo
January 20th, 2011
3:45 pm
See there is a perfect example. David Duke was going to be an kicker at Ole Miss but his scholarship was cut. See what happened.
Judge Smails
January 20th, 2011
3:47 pm
Ahh….going old school with the vitrol when nothing else works.
Judge Smails
January 20th, 2011
3:49 pm
Next will come the Arayan Nation comments….when your arguements fail you just simply resort to name calling
gdawginkalamazoo
January 20th, 2011
3:55 pm
The Arayan Nation never oversigns its players.
1eyedJack
January 20th, 2011
3:57 pm
Nick Satan’s heart is two sizes too small.
WIN WITH RICHT
January 20th, 2011
4:02 pm
Crybaby ! Stop living in a dream world. You know something stinks in Auburn. and it aint just the outhouses.
Judge Smails
January 20th, 2011
4:04 pm
Just win baby, win!!
woebegong
January 20th, 2011
4:14 pm
It seems to me, that a few stipulations added to the scholarship practice could end this discussion if the NCAA required them.
1. First, if the kid is not academically qualified to attend the university offering him the scholarship, there should be no JC tuition paid for by the school, he actually was recruited by. If the JC wants to give him a free ride, let them do it, but not the big school.
2. When schools are required to report their scholarship status in July, it has to be thorough and unless the kid did not meet academic standards, that school should be required to give him some type of other scholarship, so he can continue his education. I realize a lot of these kids just think of college as a fast track to the NFL, but they ought to be smart enough to face reality. I know though that there are kids out there who know, they can play on the college level but will not make the NFL. To cut them loose, unless it is for medical reasons or academic reasons should not be allowed. The kid took a chance as well as the school, so it is only fair.
3. I think that if we are going to continue this practice of over signing each recruiting year, a preliminary report should be sent to the NCAA, explaining exactly who will be losing their scholarship and for what reason. If you do not know by Feb. then you are probably going to mess up some kids life, or at least make his path in life a little harder than it should be. Be upfront with these kids and give trhem a realistic understanding of the whole process. If they can’t get it after that, they had better hope they are good enough to make it in a PRO sport because most likely, that will be their only avenue.
These kids not only represent their university, they also make the institution a fair amount of money, if they turn out to be super stars in college, The least we can do is be honest with these kids from the beginning, and if we do that, a problem will be solved.
WIN WITH RICHT
January 20th, 2011
4:18 pm
Crybaby!!! Yall going down for the long ride.
5IML
January 20th, 2011
4:23 pm
If BAMA was losing or UGA and Tech were winning, Saban and oversigning wouldn’t be an issue. As it stands, there’s a lot of griping in your Georgia.
Dumb dawgs
January 20th, 2011
4:33 pm
“You know something stinks in Auburn. and it aint just the outhouses.”
The only thing that stinks is UGA football.
Judge Smails
January 20th, 2011
4:35 pm
Looks like our Awbarn fan had to go plow the back 40.
Judge Smails
January 20th, 2011
4:37 pm
And his twin brother is back as a different moniker…..looks like brother taught him to cut and paste also. Can’t outsmart those plains people….they are S M A R T !!
ajgreen
January 20th, 2011
9:41 pm
another good article about oversigning at http://www.secsportsworld.blogspot.com
NCAA has lost sight of mission, needs to end
January 21st, 2011
12:23 am
[...] in September quoted three Alabama players who were given medical scholarships. All said they believe coach Nick Saban tries to use the exemptions to clear roster spots for better players. Houston Nutt currently has 26 commitments for 15 spots, according to [...]
chiefdawg
January 21st, 2011
8:14 am
it must not be bothering the players because Bama continues to get the best.
laugang
January 21st, 2011
8:25 am
what sad. is when a kid is “pressured” to leave they still are affected by the NCAA rule of having to sit out a year…thought one of the purposes of the NCAA was to protect the kids?
LCDawg
January 21st, 2011
12:32 pm
Sure Saban wins but he’s an absolute clown. And he has the balls to call out agents? he’s just as big of a scum bag.
Dave Schultz
January 24th, 2011
1:48 pm
The NCAA does not have a problem with the SEC’s implementation of the 85/25 rule…also, scholarships are for individual 1 year terms, not 4. If you are not productive at your occupation I rather doubt your firm will continue to provide employment.
Sounds to me like a group of insufferable whiners who are consistently taking beatings at the hands of the SEC.
NVRambo
January 24th, 2011
7:19 pm
This sure beats talking about Camgate and TheTatoo5 at OSU.
Voice of Reason
January 26th, 2011
9:37 am
Late to the story. Please do not use the does not qaulify academically rule to justify the oversignning. Some of these same programs also have the highest special admit rates as well and if a top player is not making it academically you can bet that will be fixed one way or another.