A word about ‘oversigning’ (and revisiting Saban’s dance)
The numbers show Alabama coach Nick Saban has learned creative ways to say goodbye to some players. (AP photo)
It’s the home stretch of recruiting season, which generally isn’t my favorite time of the year, partly because I find the whole concept of obsessing over where an 18-year-old goes to school as, I dunno, a little creepy.
But here’s one of my biggest issues with recruiting: The practice of “oversigning.” It’s exactly what the term says. NCAA rules mandate a football program can’t give out more than 25 scholarships in one class and have more than 85 scholarship athletes on the roster at one time. Often, the math doesn’t work.
A team may have only 18 spots open but it gives out 25 scholarships. This is “oversigning.” It’s a gray area in the rulebook. Coaches get away with it by rationalizing than some players don’t qualify. So the players are stashed at prep schools or junior colleges, while others are convinced to take medical scholarships. Others are pressured into transferring.
The fact is, some kids are run off because they didn’t turn out to be as good as coaches hoped. So much for the concept of amateur athletics.
Nick Saban is the current poster boy for this practice. The Wall Street Journal did a terrific story back in September, quoting three former Alabama players who said they were pressured into leaving the program, presumably to open spots on the roster.
The website oversigning.com is tracking school’s commitments and available slots. Currently, Mississippi and coach Houston Nutt are at plus-11, followed by Saban/Alabama at plus-10, Les Miles/LSU at plus-9 and Bobby Petrino/Arkansas at plus-8.
Suffice to say, this is a horrible practice. I’m going to expand on this topic more in a column in my next post. I spoke to former Baylor head coach Grant Teaff of the American Football Coaches Association (AFCA).
But until then, this will either amuse you or make you sick. Here’s a transcript of a conversation from 2008 between Saban and former Birmingham News staff writer Ian Rapoport (who now covers the New England Patriots for the Boston Herald). Ian’s a good guy, a solid reporter and a bit of a smart aleck, which is probably why I like him. This give-and-take between he and Saban will tell you all you need to know about how coaches try to finesse things to make the numbers work.
April 15, 2008.
By Ian Rapoport
Some questions, you can’t wait to ask. If a pitcher coming off arm surgery throws a no-hitter in his first start back, it would be fun to ask him, So how does that feel? On the other hand, there are some questions that you simply have to ask. Ya know, because it’s your job. A lot of times, it’s clear that while the answer will be valuable, the process getting there won’t be pretty. Your subject might not want to talk about it. Yeah, you might get yelled at. (Not that you mind…)
Today, after Alabama’s last spring practice, I had one of those situations. One of the big questions, I think, for the offseason is how will coach Nick Saban whittle the roster down to just 85 scholarships? There are 66 on scholarship now, and assume 25 freshman will enroll. That’s 91. So six have to go by August. How? That’s what I asked Saban today. He was entertaining as always. Let’s just say, the conversation was classic:
Me: “The numbers [are the] issue. First, do you know, is Colin Peek on scholarship?”
Saban: (Time to play dumb.) “I don’t know. You ask me, do I know…” (Bad question. Clearly, he knows.)
Me: “I think you do know.” (See?)
Saban: “You’ll have to ask somebody else.” (Cue mischievous grin) “You’re asking the wrong guy.”
Me: (Alright, come on, it’s getting late.) “He is, right?”
Saban: “Yeah.” (Round one: Me!)
Me: (The real questions) “How are you going to handle the numbers and when do you start to worry about it?”
Saban: (Getting a little loud… What, Saban worry?) “I’m not worried about them. It’ll all work out. I mean, the whole thing has a solution to every issue. You don’t put yourself in a position where you don’t know what’s coming, then have to take it in the chops.” (”Chops” is such a dad word. Not that there is anything wrong with that) “Alright? We know how it has to be managed, and it will be managed.”
(Pause)
Saban: “And you don’t need to call me and ask me to write a column for you, and I won’t call you and ask you how to manage our numbers. How’s that?”
Me: (Deal! But when did I suggest how to manage the numbers? If he did ask… I digress.) “I don’t even have a calculator.” (Can’t do math without one of those.)
Saban: (The smile returns.) “You don’t need one to do this.”
Me: (Throwing the hands up in the air.) “So you’re not going to tell us?”
Saban: “I’m not going to tell you what?” (That exit is looking mighty welcoming now.) “It’s none of your business. Alright? And don’t give me this stuff about the fans need to know, because they don’t need to know.”Me: “I would never say that.”
Saban: “Don’t even ask. Alright? So. (Starts to walk out, but he’s got one more zinger before he leaves.) Ya know, I thought we could get this one last thing without having to…” (attempt a scolding?)
Me: (Even I start to laugh at that) “You really thought that? No chance.”
Saban: (Off the podium, he can’t help giggling to himself, too) “Not with you.”
Media relations guru Jeff Purinton: (Escorting Saban out the door) “He (me) needed something to hold him over until the season…”
True. Good times…
I’ll be back later with a column on this topic. Until then, what are your thoughts on the practice of oversigning?
By Jeff Schultz
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– Time to mock! Kiper, McShay say Falcons take . . .
– Stacy Searels leaving Georgia? Can I offer him a lift?
– SEC’s get into ‘Smack Wear’ with BCS T-shirt (really?)
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296 comments Add your comment
Tide Rising
January 20th, 2011
2:40 pm
Alphare,
On top of what you stated we already have 1-2 players who will not academically qualify in time to enroll and will have to go juco route for a year or 2, 1 player is transferring for lack of playing time which happense everywhere, and 1-2 players who had severe knee injuries in high school that will keep them out of the 2011 season are expected to grayshirt because they will not be ready in time for the season. When we factor in those additional numbers we will end up okay.
The reason it doesn’t look that way with this guy on oversigning.com is because this is one guy using wordpress who really doesn’t know what’s going on inside each and every program out there. He has no clue about injury situations, academic and discipline casualties,etc. He is just one guy with an opinion and wordpress.
Incidentally I think your AU tigers took 32 committments last year. I’ve no problem whatsoever with that because Chizik knew the numbers including academic casualties and AU, like everyone else, ended up at the appropriate numbers.
Willie Nelson
January 20th, 2011
2:41 pm
Crybaby dawg fans:
My quarterly estimated tax payment is more than you make in a year. Let me know if you don’t know what a quarterly estimated tax payment is.
monkey on Richts back
January 20th, 2011
2:42 pm
Hey dummy, some of us have real jobs and work takes precedence over helping you do research.
When I am back in a position where I am not sitting in downtown traffic I will be more than happy to point you in the right direction.
MikeP? It has to be you copying and pasting again, or is it ha ha, mindy…others have slapped you down on these blogs,
You must ne into s and m as much as you like getting beat down on a daily basis.
KimZ'sPackage
January 20th, 2011
2:43 pm
I love all the pretty young girls on SEC campuses during football season. Problem is they all turn out fat and discusting like their moms. Pretty from 16 to 26 after that it is a crap shoot on the weight scale.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:44 pm
“How is Jarrod Massey connected with Auburn? Here is the article from yesterday”
Try again, tax evader. There is nothing in the article about Auburn.
Concern
January 20th, 2011
2:44 pm
Great informative article. Keep up the pressure on the issue of over signing giving a coach an unfair advantage.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:45 pm
“My quarterly estimated tax payment is more than you make in a year. ”
And you know this how, moron?
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:46 pm
“Hey dummy, some of us have real jobs and work takes precedence over helping you do research.”
That may be the dumbest comment today. You work yet you are here blogging! Priceless.
“When I am back in a position where I am not sitting in downtown traffic I will be more than happy to point you in the right direction.”
Ok, so you’re putting other people’s lives in danger by blogging………..
jasont13
January 20th, 2011
2:47 pm
What pisses people of about the over signing issue is the fact that if a kid is given a scholarship and after one year it’s pulled or he is asked to transfer so another player can he his scholarship, this kid has to sit out a year and miss out of a season of football. That is what pisses people off with this issue.
monkey on Richts back
January 20th, 2011
2:49 pm
The article was in the financial business quarterly on Jan 14, and blurbed in the montgomery ad.
On sunday. The article was about options that others have and that on april 9th the 302’s will be released on the day the trial starts.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:50 pm
monkey on Richts back
So……..that has what to do with Auburn? You really aren’t smart are you.
Lakedawg
January 20th, 2011
2:53 pm
What a bunch if idiots on here today. Will be good news for Dawgs tonight, Rome and Mitchell.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:53 pm
monkey on Richts back
You sound like all the other goobers who get their info from tiger droppings. Nothing but conspiracy theories.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:53 pm
“What a bunch if idiots on here today.”
Hey, when you call someone an idiot, can you at least proof read your insult so you don’t look like one?
monkey on Richts back
January 20th, 2011
2:54 pm
Crybaby, mikep,mindy, ha ha toof…it had to be you,
Never answered the question last time I asked you,
When was the last time a team won a BCS title and ESPN runs a scroll. Poll asking if Auburns title was TAINTED?
Over 80 percent said yes just like your 1957 team…..
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:56 pm
“When was the last time a team won a BCS title and ESPN runs a scroll. Poll asking if Auburns title was TAINTED?”
I had no idea ESPN polls affected National Titles.
“Over 80 percent said yes just like your 1957 team…..”
And this matters why?
BTW, didn’t you say that you were driving in traffic? If so, please do us all a favor and STFU and concentrate on driving.
monkey on Richts back
January 20th, 2011
2:56 pm
You are the only idiot on here and everyone recognizes it.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:57 pm
“You are the only idiot on here and everyone recognizes it.”
Says the gal who’s texting while driving.
You never did answer my question: What does the article you posted have to do with Auburn?
Tide Rising
January 20th, 2011
2:58 pm
“What pisses people of about the over signing issue is the fact that if a kid is given a scholarship and after one year it’s pulled or he is asked to transfer so another player can he his scholarship, this kid has to sit out a year and miss out of a season of football. That is what pisses people off with this issue” -jasont13
Jason,
That would tick any one off. What I’m trying to convey is the fact that this rarely if ever happens. I can’t think of one SEC school that basically just cuts players after a year and yanks their scholly. It doesn’t happen. Its just misleading articles like this one that give that impression. And the only kids who are asked to transfer are kids with serious disciplinary problems and that happens everywhere. Other than that I can’t think of a single program here in SEC country that basically just boots players after one year other than for disciplinary actions.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:58 pm
“You are the only idiot on here and everyone recognizes it.”
Define everyone, troglodyte.
jasont13
January 20th, 2011
2:58 pm
Crybaby dawg fans….
January 20th, 2011
2:15 pm
“Just read where Peachtree TV dropped THREE Georgia games for next season.”
Yeah, they wanted something that would actually attract viewers.
Not sure where you saw this but it was not in the article at ajc.com. Interesting how there is nothing on the internet to prove your claim….Funny how you just try to spread rumors and show your hatred to a school.
monkey on Richts back
January 20th, 2011
2:59 pm
In a Limo you dummy, but I am pulling into my office, sorry you are the !-//24( LOSER.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:59 pm
jasont13
I didn’t make the statement about Peachtree TV dropping UGA games. Try again, Forrest.
“.Funny how you just try to spread rumors and show your hatred to a school.”
What rumor?
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
3:00 pm
“In a Limo you dummy, but I am pulling into my office, sorry you are the !-//24( LOSER.’
Oh, so you’re a limo driver.
Paul N Destin
January 20th, 2011
3:00 pm
Cry me a river folks. UGA doesn’t have a problem culling folks they just allow the prison system to do handle! Nick doesn’t run off folks unless they fail drug test or other personal issues. Nick has used the medical scholly many times but that allows the kid to complete their education!!! Only the team doctor can advise Nick on use of the medical scholly!!What you UGA fans need is a coach and the will to win. The Ga Tech fans need to consider 7 man football. Dodd left the SEC because he was a softy and couldn’t handle it when Bryant arrived and made him work for a living. Get off your azz stop the bit*ch*ing! Losers
gdawginkalamazoo
January 20th, 2011
3:00 pm
How much trouble is that Massey guy looking at? Gee, please let me IN prison before I get hurt out here.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
3:01 pm
“UGA doesn’t have a problem culling folks they just allow the prison system to do handle!”
Bingo.
Scooter
January 20th, 2011
3:01 pm
It is amazing how many DA’s (like Jeff) write, blog, and vent about firing coaches who do not win enough (CMR), then blast the coaches who do what it takes to win. Want to talk character, why don’t you blast those who call for firings? Jeff, how’s the view up on that pedistal? You have a bully pulpit with moron followers. Count me as one of them. I was stupid enough to read your crap and respond to it. We all get dumber by the day with the Democrats in power. (I had to throw in a liberal jab at Jeff, too. What a tool!)
Bodda Getta
January 20th, 2011
3:03 pm
Those in favor of the existing rules have made credible points here on why the current system works and is best for the player.
Those opposed (the Georgia fans) have made nothing but juvenile insults.
Judge Smails
January 20th, 2011
3:04 pm
Looks like someone riled up the cow college……
Sportsrealist
January 20th, 2011
3:04 pm
I’d hate do be Nick Saban’s kid. Seems like every time someone questions his “all powerfulness” he starts yelling. Seems like he could ….I don’t know….come up with an educated answer. Better yet, he could try generating a little ethical standard so these questions wouldn’t have to be asked. We all know that’s not gunna happen.
jasont13
January 20th, 2011
3:05 pm
Interesting, you didn’t make that comment? Hmm well this was copied from page 4.
Crybaby dawg fans….
January 20th, 2011
2:15 pm
“Just read where Peachtree TV dropped THREE Georgia games for next season.”
Yeah, they wanted something that would actually attract viewers.
I guess that was someone else using your name that posted that.
Nick Saban
January 20th, 2011
3:07 pm
Sportsrealist,
Jealous are we? Go back to being a 6-7 loser son.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
3:07 pm
“I guess that was someone else using your name that posted that.”
I guess you can’t read, Forrest. See below
Joe Tech
January 20th, 2011
2:14 pm
Just read where Peachtree TV dropped THREE Georgia games for next season.
Sportsrealist
January 20th, 2011
3:08 pm
@Nick Saban
Way to dodge the real issue of this article.
Bama
January 20th, 2011
3:09 pm
Shawn you are crazy. You said Nick Saban is not a good evaluaor of talent. He is regarded by most experts as one of the best evaluators of talent in the country. There are stories after stories of him recruiting kids long before other schools are, and then the other schools join the party.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
3:09 pm
“Interesting, you didn’t make that comment? Hmm well this was copied from page 4.”
You should actually look at WHO made the statement about UGA not being on Peachtree TV, Forrest. I just commented that Peachtree wanted to attract viewers. If you actually looked at the tv ratings for UGA football, you’d see where viewership dropped off tremendously after the Arkansas game.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
3:10 pm
Bama
dawg fans are angry and upset because their program is now on par with Vandy and Ole Miss.
Bodda Getta
January 20th, 2011
3:10 pm
The real issue of the article is that it is no one else’s business how a school manages its own scholarships.
Nick Saban
January 20th, 2011
3:10 pm
Sportsrealist,,
Calling Nick Saban unethical? You lost all credibility at that point and are just another jealous rival trying to tear down a winner. Saban plays with 85 scholly players ever year same as everyone else. End of story. Go back to your corner now.
Bodda Getta
January 20th, 2011
3:11 pm
Georgia is better than Vandy, but Ole Miss is in better shape than Georgia.
Ole Miss gets it.
gdawginkalamazoo
January 20th, 2011
3:13 pm
Crybaby, I hate to disagree but right now our program is in a category all by itself. We are not on par with anybody SEC or Conf USA? ACC ehhh?
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
3:14 pm
“Ole Miss gets it.”
They do?
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
3:14 pm
gdawginkalamazoo
Ok
Bodda Getta
January 20th, 2011
3:18 pm
Ole Miss maximizes their signees and it resulted in their first back-to-back nine-win seasons and new years day bowl appearances since 1962.
Yes, Ole Miss gets it.
gdawginkalamazoo
January 20th, 2011
3:18 pm
Bodda, I don’t know about Ole Miss “getting it” They did sign Masoli for a year. IMO that was a huge mistake that set them back 2-3 years in the QB dept.
WIN WITH RICHT
January 20th, 2011
3:18 pm
Auburn looks a lot like SMU did in the early 80’s when thet had Dickerson and James. They were flying high until they went down in flames. Saban is pissed because UGA gets Cootie and BAMA doesn’t.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
3:18 pm
gdawginkalamazoo
Ole Miss gave up Col. Reb to get Masoli. LOL, that turned out well!!!!!!!
Tide Rising
January 20th, 2011
3:19 pm
January 20th, 2011
3:10 pm
“The real issue of the article is that it is no one else’s business how a school manages its own scholarships.”- Bodda Getta
That statement pretty much sums it all up. This guy at wordpress does not know the numbers at each and every particular school and its inner workings as to what is actually going on.
He has no freaking clue like the coaching staff does as to which recruits are likely to academically qualify, which players buried on the depth chart are asking to transfer, which players are looking at potentially career ending injuries, which players could end up being disciplinary problems and asked to leave, the medical status of players injured in high school who may take a grayshirt, and which recruits have no problem with taking a greyshirt and delaying enrollment if the school has a numbers crunch.
Only the people intimate with the program- the coaching staff- knows all these intangibles. And yet people actually put credence in what some joe with wordpress says and gloss over or ignore all these various intangibles that only the coaching staff knows. Amazing aint it.
Will
January 20th, 2011
3:19 pm
Maybe Saban just thinks he has more than 1 coke dealer on his team.