A word about ‘oversigning’ (and revisiting Saban’s dance)
The numbers show Alabama coach Nick Saban has learned creative ways to say goodbye to some players. (AP photo)
It’s the home stretch of recruiting season, which generally isn’t my favorite time of the year, partly because I find the whole concept of obsessing over where an 18-year-old goes to school as, I dunno, a little creepy.
But here’s one of my biggest issues with recruiting: The practice of “oversigning.” It’s exactly what the term says. NCAA rules mandate a football program can’t give out more than 25 scholarships in one class and have more than 85 scholarship athletes on the roster at one time. Often, the math doesn’t work.
A team may have only 18 spots open but it gives out 25 scholarships. This is “oversigning.” It’s a gray area in the rulebook. Coaches get away with it by rationalizing than some players don’t qualify. So the players are stashed at prep schools or junior colleges, while others are convinced to take medical scholarships. Others are pressured into transferring.
The fact is, some kids are run off because they didn’t turn out to be as good as coaches hoped. So much for the concept of amateur athletics.
Nick Saban is the current poster boy for this practice. The Wall Street Journal did a terrific story back in September, quoting three former Alabama players who said they were pressured into leaving the program, presumably to open spots on the roster.
The website oversigning.com is tracking school’s commitments and available slots. Currently, Mississippi and coach Houston Nutt are at plus-11, followed by Saban/Alabama at plus-10, Les Miles/LSU at plus-9 and Bobby Petrino/Arkansas at plus-8.
Suffice to say, this is a horrible practice. I’m going to expand on this topic more in a column in my next post. I spoke to former Baylor head coach Grant Teaff of the American Football Coaches Association (AFCA).
But until then, this will either amuse you or make you sick. Here’s a transcript of a conversation from 2008 between Saban and former Birmingham News staff writer Ian Rapoport (who now covers the New England Patriots for the Boston Herald). Ian’s a good guy, a solid reporter and a bit of a smart aleck, which is probably why I like him. This give-and-take between he and Saban will tell you all you need to know about how coaches try to finesse things to make the numbers work.
April 15, 2008.
By Ian Rapoport
Some questions, you can’t wait to ask. If a pitcher coming off arm surgery throws a no-hitter in his first start back, it would be fun to ask him, So how does that feel? On the other hand, there are some questions that you simply have to ask. Ya know, because it’s your job. A lot of times, it’s clear that while the answer will be valuable, the process getting there won’t be pretty. Your subject might not want to talk about it. Yeah, you might get yelled at. (Not that you mind…)
Today, after Alabama’s last spring practice, I had one of those situations. One of the big questions, I think, for the offseason is how will coach Nick Saban whittle the roster down to just 85 scholarships? There are 66 on scholarship now, and assume 25 freshman will enroll. That’s 91. So six have to go by August. How? That’s what I asked Saban today. He was entertaining as always. Let’s just say, the conversation was classic:
Me: “The numbers [are the] issue. First, do you know, is Colin Peek on scholarship?”
Saban: (Time to play dumb.) “I don’t know. You ask me, do I know…” (Bad question. Clearly, he knows.)
Me: “I think you do know.” (See?)
Saban: “You’ll have to ask somebody else.” (Cue mischievous grin) “You’re asking the wrong guy.”
Me: (Alright, come on, it’s getting late.) “He is, right?”
Saban: “Yeah.” (Round one: Me!)
Me: (The real questions) “How are you going to handle the numbers and when do you start to worry about it?”
Saban: (Getting a little loud… What, Saban worry?) “I’m not worried about them. It’ll all work out. I mean, the whole thing has a solution to every issue. You don’t put yourself in a position where you don’t know what’s coming, then have to take it in the chops.” (”Chops” is such a dad word. Not that there is anything wrong with that) “Alright? We know how it has to be managed, and it will be managed.”
(Pause)
Saban: “And you don’t need to call me and ask me to write a column for you, and I won’t call you and ask you how to manage our numbers. How’s that?”
Me: (Deal! But when did I suggest how to manage the numbers? If he did ask… I digress.) “I don’t even have a calculator.” (Can’t do math without one of those.)
Saban: (The smile returns.) “You don’t need one to do this.”
Me: (Throwing the hands up in the air.) “So you’re not going to tell us?”
Saban: “I’m not going to tell you what?” (That exit is looking mighty welcoming now.) “It’s none of your business. Alright? And don’t give me this stuff about the fans need to know, because they don’t need to know.”Me: “I would never say that.”
Saban: “Don’t even ask. Alright? So. (Starts to walk out, but he’s got one more zinger before he leaves.) Ya know, I thought we could get this one last thing without having to…” (attempt a scolding?)
Me: (Even I start to laugh at that) “You really thought that? No chance.”
Saban: (Off the podium, he can’t help giggling to himself, too) “Not with you.”
Media relations guru Jeff Purinton: (Escorting Saban out the door) “He (me) needed something to hold him over until the season…”
True. Good times…
I’ll be back later with a column on this topic. Until then, what are your thoughts on the practice of oversigning?
By Jeff Schultz
Tweet
♦
Last 3 posts (in high-def!)
– Time to mock! Kiper, McShay say Falcons take . . .
– Stacy Searels leaving Georgia? Can I offer him a lift?
– SEC’s get into ‘Smack Wear’ with BCS T-shirt (really?)
♦
Follow me on Twitter @JeffSchultzAJC; friend me at Facebook.com/JeffSchultzAJC
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
296 comments Add your comment
Navy92
January 20th, 2011
2:01 pm
What a waste of a story. You can only have 85 on scholarship. Bama, and every other school, abides by that rule every year. Only Nick Saban knows what’s going on at his program. Outsiders do not. I just wish people would stop trying to make a big deal out of something that is not a big deal. The rules are being followed.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:01 pm
“I just don’t understand what the NCAA stands for anymore.”
Not
Charging
Auburn with
Anything.
Tide Rising
January 20th, 2011
2:02 pm
JSS,
My point is that the players have freedom in choosing where to play and the few players that have to take a grayshirt due to oversigning are fully aware of this in the recruiting process. They don’t have to sign with Bama. Also, Bama under Saban I believe has only grayshirted 1-2 players in the past 2 years. I do know that 2 of these players- Kellen Williams and Wilson Love- suffered knee injuries their senior years in high school. They wouldn’t have been ready to play big time football anyway so they knew they would greyshirt. I see no fault with that.
Last, this all really started when Saban signed 32 players in his first full recruiting class in 08 and that’s when all the howling started. What really happened. 2 players went pro baseball. 3-4 didn’t academically qualify and had to go JUCO, and if I rememer correctly 2 had high school injuries such as ACL tears and did not enroll.
When it was all said and done Bama was actually one under the scholly limit when the class reported in the summer of 08. Funny but that never got reported and that is why we oversign- due to natural attrition.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:03 pm
“I will gladley report the incident to the owner of the blog…the AJC…they’ll make you leave”
OH NO!!!!!!!!!!! Some faceless blogger is gonna tattle tell on me!!!!!!!!!!! Dude, quit while you’re behind.
Again: Please point out what I’ve said that “offends” you.
5150 P.O.A.D
January 20th, 2011
2:03 pm
GCS
Cooper Taylor lost his starting job and transfered to RICHMOND.
I still talk to Jordan all the time. He was not run off. He knew he wouldn’t win the starting QB job so he left for Cincinnati. It is closer to home for him too.
I Guess you think Jaybo Shaw was run off too.
I don’t know what happen to Chris Jackson but he is at Alabama now.
I don’t know what happened to Q Sims
Tosh.No
January 20th, 2011
2:03 pm
Since when are we talking about Medical Scholly’s? We are discussing that article that you clicked on to join in this message board. It is discussing the practice of grayshirting and kicking people off teams to make room for better players. Jesus, get hooked on phonics or something.
Anyway, done arguing with jacka$$ rednecks with no job.
SouthGaBrave
January 20th, 2011
2:04 pm
JSS,
Not to nitpick, but AJ Bryant played at Peach County High in Fort Valley. Charles Johnson was from Hawkinsville…..
Brian Saul
January 20th, 2011
2:05 pm
I agree with BYTE-ME.
A Scholly should be for 4 years. If Saban and his boys thought you were good enough to offer a scholly too, then you should be good enough for 4 years. If you don’t graduate in 4 years, that is your fault.
If the team cuts you, you should be able to play D1 right away. The schools should have to cut after spring practice and that would give these kids time to get to another school. If you want to transfer, you sit out a year. If they keep you, they give you a scholly and it counts towards the 85.
They should probably also put in some type of practice player/academic scholly. If you sign with a team and you don’t play, they can put you on that type of scholly, but you can not dress or play. If you get good, they can move you to a football scholly, but only the following year. If you want to transfer and they agree, you can play D1 the next year. If you want to transfer and they wont let you, they have to give you a football scholly and it counts towards the 85.
Get rid of the medical crap, they are abusing it and some guys are getting put on it that have nothing wrong. If you are going to give a kid a medical scholly, give him an acidemic schooly and he cant play anymore.
Keep greyshirts but when a kid signs his LOI on NSD, it is a different LOI that says he is a grey shirt. Nothing hidden. He starts on the team next year.
Give every team 28 LOIs per year and this included Juco guys and everything. Each team would basically start spring practice with 112 players or less (I think thats right). If you greyshirt a guy, he is an LOI for the following year.
Those are just some quick thoughts and not really complete. Needs some work so I welcome any ideas.
tcraig
January 20th, 2011
2:08 pm
Schultz-
Interesting timing on your column with 2 big recruits deciding between UA and UGA this evening. What else can you dig up between now and then. BTW – it works both ways. How many colleges did Cam Newton attend?
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:09 pm
“How many colleges did Cam Newton attend?”
Three. Whats your point?
CW
January 20th, 2011
2:11 pm
I hesitate to inter the fray, but oversigning is wrong and is one more reason college footbal as currently organized must end. Athletic scholarships should end. College footbal has become so corrupt as evidenced by: 1) the practice of oversigning; 2) Injuries (especially concussions and leg injuries), which put the students lives, and quality of life, at risk; 3) Academics evidenced by a 30% greater likelihood of acceptance to Ivy League schools for athletes independent of their academic credentials, poor graduation rates (NCAA is making progress, but only by threatening to reduce scholarships), which means the schools are failing the student-athlete; and 4) General corruption of the academic purpose of universities/colleges evidenced by boosters and agents paying the sudent athletes or their families, preferential treatment (schools (high school and university level) appear ambiguous about managing situations of chronic law breaking and gender violence, academic fraud such as Florida State Un and Un of North Carolina scandals (classes taken at nonaccredited online universities, tutors preparing papers, lack of academic supervision, etc.). It is time for the NFL teams to establish their own farm systems and for universities to refocus on their prime objective — higher education of smart young adults.
David
January 20th, 2011
2:11 pm
Tosh — Pick one. You started by complaining that the kid was being denied an education – “to go there and LEARN.” That’s not happening, and since we’re now focusing on football, I guess we’ve made that much progress.
If you think a school should make a $200,000 investment in a kid based solely on his high school performance, without ever having an opportunity to revisit that based on their college performance, then more power to you. No other organization – business or academic – works that way.
Again, the programs are doing more to help these kids land on their feet – either at the same school or a different one — than any school ever does to help a kid who pulled a 2.8 and lost their academic scholarship. What’s “shameful” enough about that to “beat someone with rebar”?
Skitty Fritty
January 20th, 2011
2:11 pm
Wasn’t Bama pre-season #1 with the returning Heisman Trophy winner? Didn’t Bama finish with 3 losses just like the year UGA was pre-season #1 and finished with 3 losses.
Sounds like Saban is turning into Mark Richt.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:12 pm
“Sounds like Saban is turning into Mark Richt.”
Except Saban has two national titles on his resume.
JSS
January 20th, 2011
2:12 pm
Sopwith Camel
January 20th, 2011
1:58 pm
“In a “Pollyanna” world, there would be no recruiting and universities would field sports teams from the universe of students are enrolled. There would be no making allowances for lower academic admission standards for athletes……everyone has the same standards. This would eliminate what amounts to putting together “professional” teams of athletes to represent the university when the university does not care one iota whether the kids go to classes there or not.”
Funny, it works in the Ivy League and D-III… But, oops, funny, they somehow still “recruit.”
Willie Nelson
January 20th, 2011
2:13 pm
Mama’s Don’t let your Babies Play for Saban
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:14 pm
“Mama’s Don’t let your Babies Play for Saban”
Why, because you want your babies to grow up and go 6-7 at UGA?
Joe Tech
January 20th, 2011
2:14 pm
Just read where Peachtree TV dropped THREE Georgia games for next season.
Tosh.No
January 20th, 2011
2:14 pm
Former Alabama football players say the school’s No. 1-ranked football program has tried to gain a competitive edge by encouraging some underperforming players to quit the team for medical reasons, even in cases where the players are still healthy enough to play. At least 12 times since coach Nick Saban took over the program in 2007, Alabama has offered players a “medical” scholarship, according to public statements made by the team. These scholarships, which are allowed under NCAA rules, are intended to make sure scholarship athletes who are too injured to play don’t lose their financial aid. A player who receives one of these scholarships is finished playing with that team. Three Alabama players who’ve taken these exemptions say they believe the team uses the practice as a way to clear spots for better players by cutting players it no longer wants. These players said they believe Mr. Saban and his staff pressure some players to take these scholarships even though their injuries aren’t serious enough to warrant keeping them off the field. “I’m still kind of bitter,” said former Alabama linebacker Chuck Kirschman, who took a medical scholarship last year. Mr. Kirschman said Mr. Saban encouraged him to accept the scholarship because of a back problem that he believes he could have played through. “It’s a business,” Mr. Kirschman said. “College football is all about politics. And this is a loophole in the system.”
I’ll just leave this right here. Yeah some of them got to finish school and that is cool, but to encourage players to take them that were still healthy enough to play is not ethical. There is no defending those actions, so anything douche rising or the others have to say to even try to defend it is absurd.
Bishop Eddie Longs Red Panties
January 20th, 2011
2:14 pm
Im a tide rising cheerleader and you Tosh.No are a Idiot =P
Skitty Fritty
January 20th, 2011
2:14 pm
Crybaby dawg fans….
When does a Bama fan care about a LSU national title?
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:15 pm
“Just read where Peachtree TV dropped THREE Georgia games for next season.”
Yeah, they wanted something that would actually attract viewers.
Jason
January 20th, 2011
2:15 pm
There’s not a gray area on this issue. It’s black and white. If you don’t like the practice, ban it. But don’t act like coaches are skirting the rules on this one if they over-sign players. It is 100% within the rules.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:15 pm
“When does a Bama fan care about a LSU national title?”
You should ask that question to a Bama fan.
Willie Nelson
January 20th, 2011
2:16 pm
Crybaby dawg fans:
No, because you don’t want them to blow a huge lead against Auburn and get their tails whipped again by the Tigers!
David
January 20th, 2011
2:16 pm
Lovely. We’re now proposing the complete reorganization of college football based on out-of-context anecdotes that apply to less than 1% of all players. I believe Aristotle called this pathos.
Tide Rising
January 20th, 2011
2:17 pm
“It is discussing the practice of grayshirting and kicking people off teams to make room for better players.” Tosh.No
Tosh,
We are indeed still discussing kicking people off teams to make room for better players. And I’m still asking you to provide evidence of just one single player at Bama who was booted off the team and denied an education to make room for an incoming player. I even offered $1,000 for you to provide proof of this yet you still refuse to cite an example. Why?
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:17 pm
“No, because you don’t want them to blow a huge lead against Auburn and get their tails whipped again by the Tigers!”
WAR DAMN EAGLE!!!!!!!!!
Willie Nelson
January 20th, 2011
2:18 pm
You didn’t have to cuss!
JSS
January 20th, 2011
2:18 pm
SouthGaBrave
January 20th, 2011
2:04 pm
JSS,
“Not to nitpick, but AJ Bryant played at Peach County High in Fort Valley. Charles Johnson was from Hawkinsville.”
Not a “nitpick” at all, thanks for setting me straight…
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:20 pm
“You didn’t have to cuss!”
You obviously don’t know anything about Auburn football. Did you pay your taxes?
Bishop Eddie Longs Red Panties
January 20th, 2011
2:20 pm
Come on Tosh Rah! Rah! to Tide Rising $1000.00 Dollars waiting on you!!!!!!
monkey on Richts back
January 20th, 2011
2:21 pm
Keep on whining and complaining UGA fans, this is why YGA is so poorly run and. Is now a bottom feeder in the conference.
If UGA was not a member of the best conference in football you would be another BYU.
Outworked, outplayed and out recruited, the new UGA motto
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:24 pm
“Outworked, outplayed and out recruited, the new UGA motto”
I thought the new motto was “please don’t get arrested.”
Willie Nelson
January 20th, 2011
2:24 pm
No I didn’t pay my taxes, but I did take my toilet paper to Toomers Corner.
monkey on Richts back
January 20th, 2011
2:24 pm
Hey Auburn,
J. Massey cut a deal with the feds and he is telling. ALL. The 302’s are going to be interesting reading.
Who will cut the next deal?
Not good news for Auburn.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:26 pm
“J. Massey cut a deal with the feds and he is telling. ALL”
Link please.
Tide Rising
January 20th, 2011
2:27 pm
Tosh.No @2:14pm,
Perhaps you didn’t read the article sir. In the headline the WSJ states that 3 Bama players were bitter about being placed on medical scholarship. If you actually READ the article you will see that the only player who was bitter was Kirschman. The other 2 players willingly took their medical schollies and did not have a negative comment about Bama or Saban in the article. Go back and READ THE ARTICLE!
And once again I will defer to the expert advice of the medical staff and the world renowned Dr. James Andrews over the opinion of someone like yourself who has an opinion based on what?- some slam and blatantly misleading article?
As for the one bitter player Kirschman does it really matter? He was the very bottom of the whole team and wouldn’t have played one snap. It should also be noted that Bama paid for 5 years of education for the young man including his masters degree.
Please explain to me why the young man should have stayed on the team further risking injury in practice if he never would have played a single snap in a game anyway? Please explain the logic of that sir.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:28 pm
monkey on Richts back
Can you please post a link to your comment? I can’t find anything about what you’re talking about.
monkey on Richts back
January 20th, 2011
2:31 pm
On the Blackberry now, give me an hour. Al.com mentioned it in sundays paper in the main section after he changed his plea to guilty and he fired his attorney(the same attorney used by MM and Lowder) and his new attorney said he was working with the investigators in Alexandria Virginia to get him out of Alabama.
Let me get back and I will link it up.
Alphare
January 20th, 2011
2:32 pm
It’s me or the oversigning.com? Alabama will have more than 10 seniors to graduate(15?), some juniors leap to NFL(3?). And currently Alabama has 21 or 22 commits.
Where does the 10 come from by oversigning.com?
Delusional SEC fans
January 20th, 2011
2:32 pm
have an excuse for everything. Let’s be clear- No, everyone doesn’t do it. Only you do. Also, yes, it is a question of ethics and your’s are very, very ambiguous. Face it, your character and values pay a very steep price for all of your own field success… but enjoy it anyway. SEC fans are good at two things, rationalizing and being morbidly obese. How’s that type 2 diabetes treating you?
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:35 pm
“On the Blackberry now, give me an hour.”
You sound like Kenny Rogers. Be careful not to drop your blackberry in the toilet.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:37 pm
“SEC fans are good at two things, rationalizing and being morbidly obese. ”
What a stupid comment.
DC
January 20th, 2011
2:37 pm
last article on massey was back in DEC 21…..
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:37 pm
“Al.com mentioned it in sundays paper in the main section after he changed his plea to guilty and he fired his attorney(the same attorney used by MM and Lowder) and his new attorney said he was working with the investigators in Alexandria Virginia to get him out of Alabama.”
So what does that have to do with anything?
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:38 pm
“last article on massey was back in DEC 21…..”
Yep, I just read it. Nothing new.
I scanned al.com and there is nothing new about anything.
Willie Nelson
January 20th, 2011
2:38 pm
Crybaby dawg fans:
It’s ok to be morbidly obese. Your Mom still loves you.
Crybaby dawg fans....
January 20th, 2011
2:39 pm
“It’s ok to be morbidly obese. Your Mom still loves you.”
Is that the best you can do, tax evader?
Willie Nelson
January 20th, 2011
2:40 pm
How is Jarrod Massey connected with Auburn? Here is the article from yesterday
http://blog.al.com/wire/2011/01/former_casino_lobbyist_jarrod.html