Yunel Escobar (.471) like a new player — should Braves care?
Yunel Escobar's grand slam against Baltimore was his first homer of year.
When the Braves traded shortstop Yunel Escobar for Alex Gonzalez, it was easy to understand their logic. Escobar was slumping, management was turned off by his perceived attitude and they viewed him as a potential road block to a grand postseason run.
I wrote at the time that the deal could come back to haunt them. Of course, my time frame wasn’t the next four games.
Have you seen Escobar’s numbers since the deal? He is 8-for-17 (.471) with three runs scored, seven RBI and a grand slam on Sunday (his first homer of the season). He has walked once and has yet to strike out. He has moved runners along. He has been solid defensively.
Also, he has yet to pout.
So I guess he doesn’t stink after all.
Now, from the Braves’ perspective, this trade will be judged at the end of the season by: 1) Whether they make the playoffs and how they do when they get there; 2) What role Gonzalez has in that run (for what it’s worth, he’s 3 for 16 with the Braves).
In that sense, Escobar isn’t even a factor. But the franchise’s worst nightmare down the line would be for him to turn back into the player they saw for three seasons.
Blue Jays manager Cito Gaston, who spoke to Bobby Cox about Escobar following the deal, said: “The kid’s played great here. He’s done everything we’ve asked him to do and more.”
Just want to take a pulse of Braves’ fandom here: Are you happy for Escobar, upset that he has been a success or really don’t care one way or another?
This might be even the bigger question: What will make the Gonzalez-Escobar trade a success or failure in your eyes?
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486 comments Add your comment
Dennis
July 20th, 2010
11:03 pm
Noticed Escobar was benched for the night…McDonald started. Is he tired already?
Ron
July 20th, 2010
11:15 pm
Players with “personality” don’t fit the inbred Braves culture. Hopefully, the next Manager will have some life in him.
ben
July 20th, 2010
11:56 pm
I’m happy for Escobar. Just kinda wish he was doing it here in Atlanta. In a sense, he was our prodigal son. He came up through the farm system and we watched him grow as a ballplayer. We should have waited till the trading deadline to make such a big decision.
Basically, I find it irritating that so many Atlanta fans try to justify a trade by listening to some unfounded rumors about bad attitudes and other nonsensical bull. Did Escobar ever break his bat in half or kick the Gatorade cooler in the dugout? Did Escobar ever throw an expletive-laced tirade in the clubhouse or in the dugout? Did Escobar ever just start destroying team equipment in the dugout after striking out? The answer is no. So what gives with the bad attitude accusation?
Advice to the Braves: Make trades based on talent, not based on your gut feeling or touchy-feely crap. It will serve you better in the future, allowing you to avoid making asinine decisions.
Braves Fan Since "80
July 21st, 2010
1:22 am
Ben…. I agree and I am hopeful that management knew more than we do….they get paid to do it….. but we never seem to pull the right buttons on players on the fringe…. David Justice, jermaine Dye, Kelesko,Vinny castillia, Mark derosa…. we tend to favor the Langerhans, kelly johnsons. The braves would have been better served investing in Rafeal Furcal vs Chipper but raffy did get that speeding ticket…. we would rather have a patchwork team and blame the best athlete if he is tempermental……. I love the braves but somedays they make you crazy
shane
July 21st, 2010
4:34 am
Players with “personality” don’t fit the Braves culture.
Right on Ron. See with the Braves its about team and winning. Not the “person”. Team comes first with Bobby Cox. See baseball is a team sport. Its not Tennis.
BUBBA GUMP
July 21st, 2010
5:24 am
HE HADS HIS CHANCES……………COX AND COMPANY GAVE HIM PLENTY OF CHANCES.
shane
July 21st, 2010
7:04 am
The braves would have been better served investing in Rafeal Furcal vs Chipper but raffy did get that speeding ticket.
Furcal couldn’t carry Chippers jock.
NickGranite
July 21st, 2010
7:42 am
Doesn’t matter what Escobar does in Toronto, he was a petulant child who underperformed here and it didn’t look to me like anything was going to change. I wish him well but the only way to judge the trade is how our new guy performs and so far he’s looking good at short.
ben
July 21st, 2010
7:44 am
And the other side of the coin is: Should you judge a player’s numbers based on half a season, and disregard the past 3 seasons?
Taken from the website below:
Escobar ranks 6th in OPS among the 27 shortstops since his major league debut.
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/yunel-escobar-may-have-attitude-problems-but-he-also-has-a-track-record-of-being-a-very-good-player.php
NickGranite
July 21st, 2010
7:46 am
Hey Ben
Escobar pissed off more umpires in a couple of years than Bobby in 25. Why else would the braves trade a slick fielding .295 lifetime hitting shortstop other than his brain locked, half-azz running to first base, no power hitting, arrogant, sneering, petulant bad attitude?
ben
July 21st, 2010
8:03 am
Braves Fan Since “80…good point about the trades we make these days. Remember, it wasn’t always like that. In the early to mid 1990s, the Braves made some wonderful player decisions. In fact, the AJC would run a column (in those days) on how former Braves were doing. Almost every player that left Atlanta (by choice or got traded or released) seemed to really struggle. Ron Gant is one of the examples that didn’t do well after he left (in large part, due to the motorcycle accident he had). Others come to mind like fan favorite Mark Lemke (Mr. October for the Braves, hitting 3 triples in the World Series). In return, we would get someone like Fred McGriff (in 1993, he helped the Braves capture the division after being behind 10&1/2 games at the All-Star Break). In the latter 1990s, the personnel decisions started to go the other way for us. Trading away Grissom and Justice for Kenny Lofton became an obvious mistake. Lofton stole 75 bases for the Indians, but only 27 bases in his only year for the Braves. These days, the trades are either a wash or very polarizing. Because the Braves are doing so well, I kinda don’t want to see any more trades or personnel decisions. I would like to see how far this team can go.
SavDawg
July 21st, 2010
8:04 am
Does anyone know who the Braves SS of the future is? They must have a great one since they traded Elvis Andrus and Escobar. Moving Escobar was a great move for him, now we see what he is capable of when he’s focused. He lost his focus in Atlanta…I just don’t think he was happy here. It would have been nice if Wren would have moved him in the Texas deal and kept Andrus.
fredi is next
July 21st, 2010
8:32 am
Everyone should have known he’d play great once traded. It was the slap upside the head he needed.
But, really, how long until he gets confortable and has a few run ins with the coaches before he goes back to his old lackidaisical self?
Crabkilla
July 21st, 2010
9:31 am
Glad Yunel is doing better even though he was a thorn in the braves side. The trade was legit. Yunel wasn’t doing jack at bat. If Gonzales doesn’t either, he is getting it done in the field. I don’t think it is going to make us any worse. We had to do something.
phoot
July 21st, 2010
9:48 am
I think Escobar was heading for a meltdown in Atlanta. I don’t think he was going to turn it around. He is lucky he was traded and gets a fresh start. Gonzalez is a pro and a good shortstop. We will be fine.
goodwyne
July 21st, 2010
9:56 am
In my book this was a good trade regardless of Escobar’s performance in Toronto. The Braves invested a lot in Escobar and he’s a very talented player but he was never a good fit. His attitude was always the problem and I have little doubt that it will show up again in Toronto. When he’s playing well the attitude isn’t much of a factor but when he makes an error or slumps, he’s a drain on the whole team. Stats are one thing but team chemistry is important as well.
I wish Escobar the best in Toronto. Maybe a change was just what he needed but I don’t believe he would ever have been a good fit in Atlanta.
As for Gonzalez, no, he hasn’t done much in Atlanta so far but at worst we’re even in the offense department. He’s provided solid defense and he’s a much better fit in the clubhouse. I have little doubt that he’ll come around at the plate considering what he’s done already this year.
Terry Strecker
July 21st, 2010
10:14 am
PJ has it right. We put up with his attitude and laziness for four years. Four games doesn’t change that. The trade probably woke him up, but he will revert to his normal behavior.
ICEMANcometh10
July 21st, 2010
10:15 am
Yunel can play hence the reason Bobby was so high on his POTENTIAL. The problem is when you have potential you must also have DESIRE and the drive to continually improve. He will do good for a while and fizzle when he wakes up and realizes he will not be on a good team for a long, long, long, long, long time. He could hit .900 and it would not help the Blue Jays………………………………..
Jimminy Cricket
July 21st, 2010
10:59 am
I predicted that Yunel would get off to a hot start with the Jays. Anger is not a steady motivator, though. I think he’ll start being the same player he was here in another 3 weeks or so.
Even if he does kick butt for the rest of the season, it’s still a good trade for the Braves, because he wasn’t doing it here and wasn’t going to do it.
Eric C.
July 21st, 2010
11:01 am
It is way too premature to make any performance judgements at this point. In any case, I trust in Cox with his judgement of clubhouse relationships.
Don
July 21st, 2010
11:05 am
Key point here – Braves management could not figure out how to correct his problems — There is no question about his talent.
And (at least long range) this deal is probably really going to come back to haunt them. The Jays are probably going to have a star shortstop for years to come.
And also, if the Braves were expecting to have a shortstop like Gonzolaz’s first half production, they are probably going to be greatly disappointed. He is a career mediocre hitter. He had 17 home runs in the first half. My bet is that his second half production with the Braves will be a lot closer to 5 than to 17 with a poor BA and OBA.
Garrett
July 21st, 2010
11:19 am
I fully support frank wrens decision to trade escobar. Its to early to make any assumptions that Gonzalez won’t be as good as escobar. Remember Francoeur after he left was racking it up at the beginning in New York. Now he is out of the lineup in NY
Lorenzo
July 21st, 2010
11:23 am
It’s as simple as this, he was being lazy and moody, and he thought himself to be a diva. Once he found out through the trade that he was expendable, he put his act together. Sorry it had to happen to us, because he will be very good for some years. But bottomline it was the right call by management at the time.
Eva
July 21st, 2010
11:38 am
I wish Yunel all the success in the world. I hope he wins the AL batting championship. The change of scenery was obviously good for him,and his departure was good for the Braves – no matter how well he plays in Toronto or how Gonzalez plays in Atlanta. For whatever reason, he wasn’t hitting with Atlanta this year. Discord in the clubhouse is not good. Everyone seems happier now that a change has been made.
bgvt
July 21st, 2010
12:04 pm
People keep talking about giving Jeff Francoeur away for “nothing”. The assumption seems to be that Francoeur is “something.” It looks like the Mets are now using him as a platoon/4th outfielder. His numbers for this year: BA: .244, OBP: .296, SLG: .380. He really is a “something.”
On the other hand, people claim that we traded Yunel Escobar (who I will admit is really something — when his head is in the game) for a “nothing” named Alex Gonzalez. If JF is a “something” this year then so is AG. At Toronto, AG’s numbers: BA: .259, OBP: .296, SLG: .497.
So … it seems like a “something” is a player that the Braves have and a “nothing” is a player for the other team?
A part of me misses Yunel — when he was on his game, he was exciting and enthusiastic. But, I saw other games where it looked like he wanted to be anywhere in the world besides wearing a Braves’ uniform.
ynot
July 21st, 2010
12:08 pm
I was surprised by the trade, not shocked. I think he can be a very good SS for years. He needs to stay focused on the game. Hitting wasn’t his only problem with the Braves. It included base running and fielding. He has all the tools, but didn’t seem interested on maximing his talents. There are less talented plays on rosters who play hard all the time. Mental lapses can’t be costing you games. Everyone notices those. No one accepts it.
Timbo
July 21st, 2010
12:10 pm
I guess it was good to get away from a team of players and a manager that didn’t like him . . .
Brave Dawg
July 21st, 2010
1:26 pm
Notice that all Wren actions are seen as stupid or lucky. No respect shown for his ability.
Texas Braves Fan
July 21st, 2010
1:29 pm
Jeff Francouer looked great for a few weeks after his trade too. Now the Mets wish they had Ryan back. As soon as Yunel’s pride gets heeled he will be back to his absent minded play. He will be traded before the end of next season and will have a hard time finding a place to land. If you test the patience of Bobby, see Norton, you have done what many have never done.
El Bravos
July 21st, 2010
1:32 pm
Screw him and the burro he rode in on.
See,the thing people don't understand is.....
July 21st, 2010
1:53 pm
Yunel at times gave me the impression that he just didn’t want to be there,and played in a way that made me think he wanted to be traded. I just don’t think he liked playing in Atlanta, but you don’t know what he was all about because he never gave interviews or spoke to the media so we couldn’t really get an idea of the kind of person he is. Anyway, good luck to him in Toronto and GO BRAVES!!!!!!
bob
July 21st, 2010
2:01 pm
Yunel gets to play preseason games for the rest of his career.
reason
July 21st, 2010
2:13 pm
You know you are going to be traded from the Braves, —
When — Bobby benches you for looking at him,
When — Chipper, doesn’t throw you the ball.
When — Joe Simpson, blames you for losing the game, or keeps talking about how lazy you are every inning.
When — They turn off the hot water – when it’s your turn to shower.– And when– the team bus leaves without you.
Sharon
July 21st, 2010
2:23 pm
Well we do need what Yunel is putting out I want to win it all and it will take the WHOLE Braves team to win it not just one player The front office do what they do and that is it let the Players play their game me personally we need us 2 more good pitchers for down the road and those ERRORS must stop. At the end of the day I do not want it to come down to one player the team must stay hot colegtively. I wish Yunel Well he is a player who is paid to play the game hats off now Alex hear as well as see Yunel work let Alex produce what he can.
Beer Angel
July 21st, 2010
3:06 pm
We are winning and we have been doing it without his bat all season. So at worst it’s a neutral on the field. It was not just Cox who had enough of him. He peers on the team had enough of him too. Let’s move on. I don’t think it is worth keeping score on this one. He was not going to work out for the Braves, like it or not. Clearly Escobar has the talent. The Braves knew that when they traded him. They simply did not want him at the price of him being a jerk. Let’s go get an outfielder.
sam
July 21st, 2010
3:34 pm
It’s all about race with me.
early in the season when the braves were in their slump…..people were on these ajc blogs calling for terry pendelton’s head.
now that they are winning…there is no justified reason to want pendelton fired….except for his race.
escobar’s hitting sucked as a brave right before he was traded….now he’s “tearing it up”!!!
was it pendelton’s fault that escobar sucked as a brave???
as whitney houston would say…HELL TO THE NO!!!
Paddy O
July 21st, 2010
3:47 pm
Call me in two months. Escobar has something to prove – like Manny Ramirez in Dodgertown. Wait until the all star break 2011. If he is hitting 350, good for him – as PJ said, he was NOT doing it here.
Paddy O
July 21st, 2010
3:49 pm
sam – race has nothing to do with it. If the team sucks, changes need to be made – unless you are patient. I am not TP supporter, but if the team is winning, there is not need to make big changes. You lose, you lose. Sam, your friendly neighborhood racist – not as good as a fascist, but almost a Nazi.
ben
July 21st, 2010
4:09 pm
Paddy O, lay off sam…the guy just stated his opinion. Quit flaming people. People here are just trying to have an open discussion about a controversial trade involving the Braves.
dub366
July 21st, 2010
4:59 pm
bottom line you redneck didn’t want him here. he’s in a better place now. the MVP of the team last year now he gone all because he has no HR’S hell look at Chipper what the hell is he doing he making all the money,plus running everybody else away trying to keep his sorry A–s happy,as long is he here braves aren’t going to win nothing, didn’t do it in his prime what make you think it going to happen now . HALL OF SHAMED
GaryG7
July 21st, 2010
6:02 pm
I saw Alex make a few plays last night that Yunel probably would have blown. Alex may not have all of the physical skills that Yunel has, but at least his head is in the game.
By the way, Alex is 4 for 17 with 4 walks.
TheProfessor69
July 21st, 2010
6:37 pm
…He is gone , I hope he does good , but I am very glad he is long gone … I just wanted him to do good when he played for the Braves , he was not going to do that .
Paddy O
July 21st, 2010
7:21 pm
ben – if people yell fire, and there is no fire, is this beneficial and wise? If not, it should be pointed out. I like TP as the 3rd basemen, my dislike of him as batting coach went along with the team stinkin’ up the joint – it has nothing to do with the color of his skin. People who yell racist need to kicked until they shut up, unless they are actually correct.
Paddy O
July 21st, 2010
7:22 pm
dub – 17 years of futility is a better place? Toronto will continue to stink, and never get in the playoffs with NY & the Sox ahead of them. So how is that a better place? Go watch a Jay’s game – the place is less filled than Miami.
Robert
July 21st, 2010
7:24 pm
Here’s what happens when a kid plays for an idiot, is almost ruined, and then gets traded to a team not managed by an idiot
rd46
July 21st, 2010
9:47 pm
I watch the blue jays and from what I see, while escobar has had an offensive bump in the short term, gonzalez is a better defender and has more power in the bat. Gonzalez had an excellent first half of the season on offense and defense. Gonzalez is a PRO, and I will miss him.
For the rest of this season, braves win this trade. The 6 year age difference makes up for that for toronto. In the longer term, who knows?
Ron
July 21st, 2010
10:43 pm
Here’s what happens when a kid plays for an idiot, is almost ruined, and then gets traded to a team not managed by an idiot
THIS.
Patrick
July 22nd, 2010
2:06 am
HE’S NOT STABLE! NO ONE LIKED HIM IN THE CLUBHOUSE AND IT WAS OBVIOUS THAT HE QUIT ON THE TEAM. NOW THAT HE ISN’T HERE, HE HAS SWITCHED GEARS AND DECIDED TO PLAY…LET HIM GO PLAY FOR THE LOSER BLUE JAYS….WHAT A MORON. IF HE HAD PLAYED HARD FOR THIS TEAM HE WOULD BE PLAYING IN GAMES THAT MEAN SOMETHING. THAT SHOWS WHAT AN IMMATURE BABY HE IS…..IF YOU CAN’T PLAY FOR BOBBY COX THEN YOU CAN’T PLAY.
PERIOD END OF STORY
Kyle
July 22nd, 2010
6:23 am
Regardless of anything – he still slings the bat.
davidingeorgia
July 22nd, 2010
7:58 am
bottom line: once Bobby Cox sours on a player, he never bothers trying to work with them to get them back out of the dog house and producing for the team again…Cox is one of the most petty, vindictive men ever to manage in the majors, and I won’t be sorry to see the door hit him in the butt on the way out at the end of this season. Yeah, “players love to play for him”…the ones who don’t tick him off and get on his bad side. And on a related Escobar-related note, I *still* have no idea why Terry Pendleton (one of my favorite Braves ever as a player) is still employed anywhere as a hitting coach.