Tim Hudson: Braves were too ‘passive’ in past seasons
Tim Hudson sees something in the 2010 Braves that had been absent. (Curtis Compton/AJC)
There’s something about sports teams that don’t impress you on paper but wow you on the field. It’s what made the story of the 1991 Braves so special. Well, that and just playing a meaningful game after Memorial Day seemed cool.
But for too many Octobers in the 1990s, the Braves seemed just the opposite: They impressed you on paper but not on the field. Some considered the team good but robotic, lacking passion. This year’s team is different. They are playing above their depth, certainly when you consider the “stars” who aren’t performing. We’ve all noticed it. Tim Hudson has noticed it.
In fact, the Braves’ pitcher had some remarkably candid comments late Thursday night following his win over Tampa Bay. While praising this year’s team for it’s passion and aggressiveness, he pretty much indicted Braves teams in the past few years for being “passive.”
Here’s a Q-and-A with the pitcher.
♦ Question: You’ve been able to beat a lot of great teams in this stretch. What is it that stands out?
Answer: “On paper and out there on the field, I don’t think people look at us with a lot of fear. You know, ‘Gosh, here come the bombers to town.’ But I think after we play anybody and after somebody sees us for a while, they know that we’re no pushovers. The way we pitch. We love to play defense. We don’t throw away many at-bats. We’re a tough, gritty team. To be honest with you, that really wasn’t the personality of the Braves in a few years past. Now we have a little bit of a different personality on the field. I think it shows in the games that we play and the games that we win.”
♦ Question: How did that change?
Answer: “It’s amazing. You get a few pieces in here, and all of a sudden your team can take on a different personality. Whether it be from a couple of guys coming off the bench, keeping everybody ready. Or sometimes it’s just winning. That can change your attitude a lot, realizing you can play and win these kind of dirtball games.”
♦ Question: In past years, did you realize at the time that the team wasn’t tough and gritty?
Answer: “It seemed a bit passive. It seemed a little bit passive and not a real aggressive type of baseball. You come in now and you’ve got guys who are really ticked off when they get out, really ticked off when they give up a run, really ticked off when they don’t do the little things to win. I’m not saying you have to tear down the dugout and tear down the bat rack and go nuts. But it’s nice to see somebody with a little fire up under him and not take it well.”
Some pretty revealing stuff. We’ve all speculated about this being a Braves’ problem in past seasons but it means more when a guy like Hudson says it. Do you agree with him?
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123 comments Add your comment
DoninAcworth
June 18th, 2010
9:41 am
Been saying itall along….I like this team because of what Huddie is talking about. And our present line up is just fine! “They” are coming together!
TrueDawg
June 18th, 2010
9:45 am
@DJ — thanks for catching that. Can you tell my mind is already drifting to the fall?
Fire Frank Wren
June 18th, 2010
9:47 am
Nobody is going to say it but Chipper is so laid back and even keeled that he set the tone in the past. A little smile and a pat on the back and lets play. Now, it is Hinske throwing bats and Prado asking the ump where the pitch was and Heyward flying around the bases, it is alot more emotion and it is obvious. In the end the talent will be what matters but it is fun to watch for now.
DJ
June 18th, 2010
9:47 am
TrueDawg I cant blame you!! Go Dawgs Sick em!!!!!!!
JSS
June 18th, 2010
9:52 am
@ Sonny Clusters…
It would be like that episode of “Futurama” where they preserved the heads of MacGwire, Bonds, and Canseco! Hadn’t been right since they took off “Teddy Ballgame’s head,” too funny!
Rich
June 18th, 2010
9:54 am
To be quite honest, I think the Braves had been passive between 1997 and the announcement of Bobby Cox’s retirement. I haven’t seen the club play with this much passion since they were up 2-0 against the Yankees in the ‘96 World Series.
Something happened when they lost Game 3, and they never truly got it back. 1991-1995 were special years, and 1996 was fun, but it ended the magic. They made the playoffs for several more years after that, but mostly because they played in a weak division.
The 1999 World Series only happened because they won the East by beating crappy divisional teams and managed to get hot in october, before the Yankees brought them back down to Earth in 4 games.
The players became nearly as complacent as the fans. After a few seasons missing the post-season, it took Cox saying he was hanging it up, and the excitement of the best rookie in many years to wear the uniform, to bring back a spark, to both the players and the fans.
With this club appearing to have reinvented themselves again to be strong contenders once again, and possibly positioned for another long run of success, they learn as an organization from said complacency and take what they had before and improve, maybe bringing another title or more to Atlanta over the next decade.
JSS
June 18th, 2010
9:57 am
And there I thought I was the Ho Chi Minh of AJC blogging! That comment makes me feel like Charlie Sheen’s character on “Two and a Half Men” when he finally found a boundary of a woman he wouldn’t do! Sniff Sniff!!!
PMC
June 18th, 2010
9:58 am
He’s right, it’s a lot more fun watching guys who seem to have a passion for what they do.
The bench and the players they have coming off the bench really exude that passion. Over the course of the 90’s the team eschewed passion and dumped players who were vocal like David Justice. It left them a little hollow and boring.
asheville dawg
June 18th, 2010
10:30 am
This year started with Jason Heyward bashing cars in spring training, and waiting to see if he made the team. Other years were the boys are back in Disney World, ho hum, get a little bit of practice, then golf and fishing.
Prado winning the second base job last year started the transformation from corporate drone team to a nitty,gritty team. Brooks Conrad is one of those players who actually seems exited to be in the big leagues and producing. Sprinkle in a Hinske, you know, a guy with a few World Series rings,a Melky, a Yankee who should expect the playoffs, and the attitude changes.Remember they them trying to cool down the fiery Cuban Escobar?
And then the April bust of Glaus. Now we won’t be able to afford to resign him?
Yes, these Braves are different from past seasons. While i liked Francouer, he seemed to be used to “entitlement”. Of course, he was shown on local tv as a star since his junior year of high school.
All the new Braves didn’t help on that dreadful losing streak in April, but something sure did click when the calender clicked over to May. Hopefully, an exciting pennant race will bring back Braves fans. We now know, it’s not a gimmee to be in playoffs every year. This one hopes they earn their right to again participate in October baseball games again.
Ramblin Wrecker
June 18th, 2010
10:36 am
Honestly I think this new wave started last season, when the Braves organization itself grew a pair and jettisoned Jeff Francoeur. If a player ignores his coaches for so long but is allowed to continue, the whole team is compromised. By sending Francoeur out of town, despite his golden boy status, the Braves organization became more gritty, tough and passionate. Then you bring in Heyward and the kid does everything full speed (even run the bases after a HR) and takes extra bases, tries to win with every little thing he’s got and has great at bats. Then you have guys like Troy Glaus who has good at bats and the passion of Eric Hinske and the grit of Brooks Conrad. Now all of a sudden you have a lineup of guys who work the count, move runners over and do little things to win.
Ted M
June 18th, 2010
10:45 am
Yup, the Braves have needed a little fire in their bellies for a long while. They used to call their lack of fire professionalism and they lauded it but it was usually a fault
STONECOLD STEVE AUSTIN
June 18th, 2010
10:52 am
THAT COULD DEF BE MY CALLING! THIS WHOLE WRESTLING THING IS GETTING OLD!
Jeff Schultz
June 18th, 2010
10:54 am
Sonny Clusters — Pretty sure Billy Martin and Whitey Herzog cut off some heads, they just never got convicted.
GT Alum
June 18th, 2010
10:58 am
I don’t think it’s fair to blame the Braves’ lack of fire on Chipper. He’s not the most rah-rah guy in the world, but I’ve seen him get upset about a PA many times (just not throw equipment around, punch the clubhouse wall upset). The guy who got me was Andruw. He could be wearing the golden sombrero and would still be walking around with that goofy smile.
Carl
June 18th, 2010
11:03 am
Could I change the subject and ask why there has not bee any articles about the 2 UGA golfers who are playing in the Open at Pebble Beach?
steve brown
June 18th, 2010
11:05 am
Atlanta’s sports woes
Owner puts Hawks, Thrashers & arena up for sale
By JOSH KOSMAN
Last Updated: 5:44 AM, June 18, 2010
Posted: 12:49 AM, June 18, 2010
Comments: 0
| More Print [Follow Us on Twitter]
Today the National Basketball Association has a 2009-10 champion, but for the Atlanta Hawks the real battle has just begun.
The Atlanta Spirit, the group that controls the team, has put it on the block and, in recent days has started to solicit buyers for the franchise in a package with the Philips Arena where the team plays, according to sources with direct knowledge of the process.
The Spirit is also selling its Atlanta Thrashers franchise of the National Hockey League.
The Hawks posted an operating loss of roughly $20 million last year before servicing debt. The Philips Arena made $10 million.
NBA’s Atlanta Hawks, the NHL’s Thrashers and the Philips Arena are for sale.
AP
NBA’s Atlanta Hawks, the NHL’s Thrashers and the Philips Arena are for sale.
That means the package together is losing money, and if one bought the Hawks and tried to move them out of Atlanta it would trip a clause in the financing deal that would accelerate the remaining debt payments owed on the 11-year-old arena.
So a buyer would likely need to keep them in town, sources said.
As for the Thrashers they are being sold separately and lost about $30 million in the last 12 month, according to figures compiled by the Spirit, the source said.
The owners have hired the Raine Group, a New York investment bank, to sell the teams, which both just completed winning seasons.
This dilemma is part of a deeper problem the NBA faces in that its teams posted an overall loss of $400 million, according to Commissioner David Stern.
At the same time, many of the team owners who were very rich have lost money in the recession and cannot afford to keep funding money-losing teams.
Owners too have a quickly depleting number of wealthy financiers to whom they can sell their teams.
For example, the money-losing New Jersey Nets searched 18 months for a buyer until they got lucky and found billionaire Russian Mikhail Prokhorov, the source said.
Another source in the sports business said, “There will be more foreclosures. In five years you’ll have a lot fewer teams and buildings will go dark.”
In other industries you would see mergers and cost cuts, but in sports salaries are fixed, the other source added.
The Atlanta Spirit could not be reached for comment.
In 2004, the group paid $250 million to buy the basketball and hockey teams, along with Phillips Arena, from Time Warner.
Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/atlanta_sports_woes_nFWtCfbmsxk5uXjNim4q1O#ixzz0rDTXjHYz
TommyJack
June 18th, 2010
11:09 am
Hudson thinks he cooler than the other side of the pillow. He’s indirectly taking a shot at Bobby.
Sometimes it’s ok to just say nothing.
GT Alum
June 18th, 2010
11:09 am
PMC, it’s funny, though. Justice ticked off a lot of people with some of his “fiery” comments. And there’s a lot of people who have wanted Yunel run out of town for his antics. It’s funny how the same characteristics that annoy some people are the characteristics that some people think this team needs.
It is interesting now, a lot of the guys people are talking about are more OBP and mostly doubles with some HR power guys. I think part of it is this team was built around the HR for a lot of the past 15 years. Cox doesn’t have a roster of sluggers now. He has a roster of ballplayers.
thunderbull56
June 18th, 2010
11:10 am
It’s ironic, but true.Without coming right out and saying it,Tim has observed a glacial changing of the guard.It’s also sad that it’s taken the demise of our icons for this to occur.
GT Alum
June 18th, 2010
11:13 am
Wow, Jeff. How’d the AJC let the Post scoop them on that story?
S.C.Smith
June 18th, 2010
11:22 am
This season Wren got it right, added players like Hinske, Melky, Glaus…players with a little more fire and don’t accept losing. Prado, J-Hey, Infante, Ross already here. Thats the heart and soul of the team. Oh yea and Wags is pretty tough too.
Jimbo
June 18th, 2010
11:22 am
KAWAKAMI TRADED TO PHILS: http://TwitPWR.com/KOo/
Jake
June 18th, 2010
11:23 am
Here’s a thought: ASK Hudson who the gritty guys are. What a concept!
Personally, I agree with someone above: Conrad, Prado, Hinske and I would add Medlen who seems to be tenacious and maybe even Billy Wagner, whom everyone seems to respect and even be in awe of.
Coach (2011 or Bust)
June 18th, 2010
11:27 am
What Whitey Herzog’s teams accomplished on the field was the epitome of aggression. Those great Cardinal teams played small ball on “steroids” as it were. They ran , then ran some more but probably eschewed the long ball a bit much. You gotta hit the ball with authority first and then run the bases.
That said, I’ll agree to disagree with Tim Hudson. Yes, this team is gritty and smart. They play the game with the proverbial fire in the belly. But they are flawed in spite of being in first place. The Braves 302 walks leads the Major Leagues. But they rank 24th in stolen bases with 32 and 21st in HR’s with 54. I’ll say it out loud: It’s the pitching STUPID! Their 3.71 ERA is seventh overall. Great pitching will cover up many flaws like make up covers a woman’s bad skin, but she’s still ugly under the covers at night.
I said all that to say this, the Braves clearly need another big bat because they are never gonna be fleet of foot on the base paths.
Tweets that mention http://blogs.ajc.com/jeff-schultz-blog/2010/06/18/tim-hudson-braves-were-too-passive-in-past-seasons/?cxntfid=blogs_jeff_schultz_blog%3Futm_source%3Dpingback -- Topsy.com
June 18th, 2010
11:34 am
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by . said: [...]
Left wing management
June 18th, 2010
11:34 am
I think there’s something to this. It’s almost been like there’s something too, how to say it, gentlemanly about the Braves. Like a bunch of really nice guys, but not necessarily having the will to do what it takes.
cantondawg
June 18th, 2010
11:40 am
i really love this team. It reminds me of the 1991 worst to first year. I agree that the old Braves team lacked passion.
Michael
June 18th, 2010
11:46 am
They’re all so rich.
Sonny Clusters
June 18th, 2010
11:47 am
We was thinking that when Bobby finally benched Jeff and let somebody else hit and they won the game it was a turnaround of sorts for this team. Again and again the team would fight back and have something going on the bases and Bobby would send up Andruw or Jeff or KJ and would say, “C’mon kid” and they would strike out and somebody that could put the ball in play would not get a chance to hit. We watched that for a long time. That could take its toll on team after awhile. Sorta like having your head cut off and pickled. Jeff, it sure looks like a trend. Could that be what is holding up a decision for Chipper? Are they wanting to pickle him and clone him for later?
tampadawg86
June 18th, 2010
11:50 am
I have a question for Huddy. Before I go further I’m a Tim Hudson fan! Okay so Huddy was a CY pitcher over there when he played for the Oakland A’s. What happened when he moved over here and got his butt kicked? My question is why did it take so long to figure out he arm was hurt? Seriously? He is pitching some nasty stuff right now. I think he might be better than he was in Oakland. His sinker is pretty much unhittable. Why did it take till last season to figure this out?
Squirrel Ninja watcher
June 18th, 2010
11:52 am
In the post season they always seemed to want to be somewhere else, like they had booked their tee times already.
Reid Adair
June 18th, 2010
12:01 pm
Tim Hudson makes some very interesting comments. While they are “candid,” they’re very positive about the Braves’ current roster.
On a somewhat related note, I’m glad to see Hudson having such a great comeback season. It’s a shame when the media worries about other issues and ignores stories like his.
Jimbo
June 18th, 2010
12:02 pm
Hudson’s new elbow is bio-mechanical…he had a horse ligament put in there
extremus
June 18th, 2010
12:09 pm
It’s good to see passion for the game returning to the Braves’ dugout. I too feel that for around a decade now they simply didn’t allow enough emotion and fire on the field and in the clubhouse. Sure, things were remarkably stable and professional, but it always seemed that come October we were the better team, but not the more mentally prepared team. I think the reason the Braves overcame a heavily favored Cleveland Indians team in 1995 for their only World Series title was the very fact that A) they were still trying to get to the top and B) few expected them to outside Atlanta. But that fire was extinguished right about the time Mark Wohlers threw that eighth straight slider to Jim Leyritz in ‘96; after that something was missing, as if the team felt they were indeed snake-bitten.
But who knows, this could be the year that all of those disappointments could be put behind this team for good, where Bobby Cox could go out a winner, and Chipper Jones could bookshelf a superb career with World Series championships (he won his first as a rookie). Here’s hoping.
Oh, and it was nice to see Jason Heyward drive the ball with power again last night, though I’m not convinced about his swing; the past month or so his power numbers have dropped off the table and his strikeouts have soared compared to the first two months. Something’s definitely off with him, and I hope he can turn it around in time to preserve his Rookie of the Year candidacy (a lot of stiff competition nipping at his heels already).
GT Alum
June 18th, 2010
12:18 pm
extremus, when it comes to Heyward, remember he is playing with a hand injury. It’s definitely impacted his swing a bit.
Ray Pugh
June 18th, 2010
12:20 pm
Jimbo,
If he had a horse ligament, it wouldn’t be mechanical ya dumb@$$…
All I'm Saying...
June 18th, 2010
12:22 pm
Let’s just say that the one time we won the World Series, we played with an edge. I remember three examples from 1995 WS:
1) Bobby Cox calling for a squeeze bunt that Belliard pulled off scoring a run after going out and arguing in an animated fashion a close play at second base
2) David Justice calling out our fans for nervously sitting on their hands instead of boldly helping the home team by trying to stir things up with either the chop or rhythmic chanting/cheering; and
3) Mark Lemke getting worked up about the Indians players saying Braves couldn’t win a World Series
Having players like Marquis Grissom who played boldly and better during the playoffs versus the regular season also helped us in 1995.
In 1996, I recall the team really responded led by Crime Dog after being down three games to one to the Cardinals in the NLCS. Then we got complacent after winning the first two in NYC in WS and never rebounded from Leyritz’ homer as I think we tightened up.
In 1997, Justice and Marquis were no longer with the team and Chipper was the de facto leader and he was into himself and appeared too cool in his outward play and persona. I think the team adopted that attitude and never cut loose.
With BC as the manager, you have to take the good with the bad. His demeanor is perfect for the long regular season but his calmness can sometimes cause his players not to realize that they have to raise their game in the playoffs and step up their performance to command the moment.
As for 2010, its all about Prado as he makes this team go. Throw in Heyward’s its-all-new-and-I’m-loving-every-moment state, Hinske’s grittiness, Infante’s drive, Huddy’s focus and don’t forget what not making the playoffs for several years will do to your perspective and you have a team that doesn’t take anything for granted.
LET’S GO BRAVES!
GTSteve
June 18th, 2010
12:37 pm
Got alot of “team players” on this team also…I think that helps
Whether Spirit is selling teams or not, scrutiny is justified | Jeff Schultz
June 18th, 2010
12:39 pm
[...] ♦ Tim Hudson: Braves were too ‘passive’ in past seasons [...]
Tweets that mention Tim Hudson: Braves were too 'passive' in past seasons | Jeff Schultz -- Topsy.com
June 18th, 2010
12:49 pm
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Chuck Prince, billyhayes. billyhayes said: Tim Hudson: Braves were too 'passive' in past seasons: Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) That comment makes me f… http://bit.ly/9wgrLG [...]
gcs
June 18th, 2010
12:50 pm
I don’t want to get too giddy just yet but this team has a chance at being something special.
Most often, the team that has the most success (think the 1991 Braves) has someone different stepping up every night. In recent years, much of the load has been put on the “stars”. However, I believe this year’s team realizes they don’t really have any “stars” to carry that load.
One night it is career minor leaguer Brooks Conrad’s walk-off grand slam. The next night it is rookie Jonny Venters throwing a one pitch save. It’s Prado; it’s Glaus; it’s Hanson; it’s Hudson; it’s JHey. Even Nate McLouth had a walkoff home run off the Phillies.
.
Jeff Schultz
June 18th, 2010
1:13 pm
Steve Brown — just posted a blog on that. For what it’s worth, ASG denies it.
http://blogs.ajc.com/jeff-schultz-blog/2010/06/18/whether-spirit-is-selling-teams-or-not-scrutiny-is-justified/
Kurt
June 18th, 2010
1:13 pm
I blame the new grit all on Eric Hinske. Did you see the other night in Minnesota when he popped up to the infield and got so freaking mad he threw hit bat all the way back to the dugout? Man, that’s fire and it’s contagious. And that’s only one instance. That dude has brought much more to this team that his stats will ever reveal. Maybe it’s a coincidence that he has played in the last 3 World Series, maybe it’s not. Maybe being a major league ball player for a few years can cause some complacency to set it without ever realizing it and teams need someone like him to knock the cobwebs out and lead by example. Whatever it its, I hope they give the dude a lifetime contract.
Such has been a fresh break from watching Andruw smiling so big after a strikeout.
Jeff Schultz
June 18th, 2010
1:14 pm
GT Alum — It’s only a “scoop” if it’s true.
Jeff Schultz
June 18th, 2010
1:14 pm
Jimbo — Nice photoshop.
Jack
June 18th, 2010
1:17 pm
My wife didn’t like it the other night when Hinske struck out and threw a hissy fit. “what a way for a grown man to act” she said. “It’s about time!” I said.
Nate McLouth
June 18th, 2010
1:24 pm
Cut me please!
Luv 2 Hate Me
June 18th, 2010
1:26 pm
Just when I started to doubt Frank, he’s come through with a good lineup and maybe a WS team. Good job Frank!
eazye
June 18th, 2010
1:29 pm
i am so tired of the chipper jones saga.. so f—ing what??? who cares if he does or doesnt retire. it seems the braves and certain personalities seem to always take up for him….
why not mention the kid he had out of wedlock with the hooters waitress.. because he is white thats why……….. duh….lol
. he seems like a racist, homophobe, good ole’ boy that can do no wrng for the braves or the city.. get over it………………..
he just looks like a hilibilly and nate mcclouth looks inbred………….lol
Mike
June 18th, 2010
1:39 pm
It depends on what you mean by “these past seasons”. If you mean during their 14 year playoff run, then yes, I think often the team lacked fire. They had the talent to go further than what they did.
Its hard to know these last few years for fire because of the money problems. Slimming payroll while still having to carry monster contracts like Andruw Jones and Mike Hampton isnt easy. Last year, they got off the books and the Braves were finally in full control of their payroll.
They had to enter each season with a glaring weakness due to money and try to fix it in mid-season moves. Starting pitching had no depth one year. Another year they had the cheapest bullpen in baseball that couldn’t hold a lead. Last year, the pitching was solid, but they had at least 4 near automatic outs in the lineup until mid season.
Keeping the team that ended 2009 relatively intact plus going out and getting guys like Glaus and Wagner were not luxuries they have had in the past few years.