Larry Drew’s first issue: What to do with Joe Johnson? (UPDATED: Wade recruiting Joe)
Larry Drew needs to know what makes Josh Smith (left) tick, but Joe Johnson will be the centerpiece of the Hawks' offense if he re-signs with them. (Curtis Compton/AJC)
(UPDATE BELOW)
Now that they have hired their coach, the Hawks need to resolve their coach’s biggest player issue: Joe Johnson.
You thought I was going to say Josh Smith, didn’t you?
Smith can be a headache for a coach, given his fluctuating effort level (and maturity). But he’s not going to be the centerpiece of the Hawks’ offense. Johnson has been just that for the Hawks, and he’ll be that again next year — if he re-signs. The fact that Johnson is an impending free agent doesn’t give new coach Larry Drew much time to decide where he stands on the four-time All-Star. (Drew’s first chance to make a public declaration will come at his introductory press conference Monday at 4 p.m.)
We have to assume general manager Rick Sund’s preference is to keep Johnson because he has said as much. Shortly after the season, Sund told our Michael Cunningham:
“I’m hopeful and optimistic we can sign [Johnson] going forward. I told him we’ve come a long way, and it would be great if he can continue to be an important part of our team going forward.”
Here are the three key questions regarding the Johnson-Drew dynamic:
1.) Does Drew want Johnson back? Answer: Probably yes.
Notwithstanding another disappointing postseason by Johnson — and his less-than-brilliant decision to give a verbal backhand to fans following a second-round, Game 3 loss to Orlando — he is the team’s leading scorer. That counts for something.
2.) Does Drew want Johnson back under any circumstances? Answer: Probably no.
Drew knows the oft-seen “Iso Joe” offense is limiting. He almost certainly would prefer more creativity in the half court. He needs to be certain Johnson is willing to give up the ball in certain situations and sets for the betterment of the team. This is a bit of an unknown because we don’t really know what Johnson’s desires are, nor what past problems are merely the result of design by former coach Mike Woodson.
3.) Does Drew’s hiring sway Johnson’s desires one way or the other? Answer: Probably no.
I still believe this will come down to money. If Johnson can make more by staying in Atlanta, he will. If there’s a chance he can make the same (via free agency or a sign-and-trade) with another team that he might have a desire to play for, he’ll go. As much as Johnson likes living in Atlanta, part of him no doubt is a little tired of getting the blame every time the Hawks come up short. I just don’t think Drew’s presence looms bigger than either one of those issues.
What are you thoughts? Do you think Drew and Johnson can co-exist or should the Hawks part ways with Johnson?
(UPDATE: A story in today’s Florida Sun-Sentinel indicates Miami guard Dwyane Wade has spoken to both Johnson and Toronto’s Chris Bosh, another impending free agent, about signing with the Heat.)
Amid the promotional push by Pat Riley and the Heat marketing staff to retain the team’s All-Star leader this offseason, Dwyane Wade has gone national with his own push highlighting the benefits of South Florida to other free agents.
“It’s about who can come to Miami. It’s about who do you trust, who can fit the organization, who best fits you as a player, things of that nature,” Wade said, enhancing the perception that he will spend the start of the July 1 negotiation period more as a recruiter than as someone being recruited.
Wade told ESPN his conversations with other free agents, a group that includes Cleveland Cavaliers forward LeBron James, Toronto Raptors forward Chris Bosh, Phoenix Suns forward Amare Stoudemire and Atlanta Hawks guard Joe Johnson, would center on moving the Heat toward the “dynasty” vision that Riley has stressed.
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86 comments Add your comment
RambleOn84
June 14th, 2010
9:04 am
I hate to be such a pessimist, but the Hawks will never be a championship-caliber team with the management we have.
What was the point of firing Woodson just to promote his assistant?
Joe Johnson is not an elite player; his dream is to be Robin to Lebron’s Batman.
And especially after Joe showed his disdain for the home crowd, I do NOT want to see him in a Hawks jersey again.
Not so casual observer
June 14th, 2010
9:15 am
Joe must go for one simple reason. A 5 or 6 year deal for a 30 year old guard, who did not play out his college career (thus played 80-100 games each year rather then 30-40), only means the last 3-4 years of the deal the Hawks have a worn out player whose contract kills any chance for improvement, assuning he continues to play 40+/- minutes a game.
In answer to a previous question: Joe would take a sign and trade because the Hawks can pay him the most $$$$$. The problem is the compensation from a capped team to a capped team. A player and draft picks are unlikely to match, so the acquiring team will have to thow in other players to make the deal work. This creates a desire by the Hawks to acquire expiring contracts with the “throw-in” players – so which teams have these to offer and will Joe agree to go to those teams?
Joe, as mentioned earlier, was the best perimeter defender and often played defense against the point guards and small forwards and was also strong enough to defend a power forward for a short time on a switch – so where do the Hawks look for a replacement for all of these talents?
The emphasis here has been on his offensive production but he also was the most talented in other areas and replacing him will not be easy. If he stays and is not expected to carry the team offensively then he could be as productive as in the past, but more efficiently, and based upon his history and willingness to be a lesser light then he might be happier. As we have seen with Boston this year, limited playing time produces post-season success and could lengthen Joe’s career so that the 5 or 6 year deal would not be such a burden in the later years.
Akron Atlantan
June 14th, 2010
9:31 am
How about we trade Bibby and Marvin. Also, let Joe Johnson go and sign Lebron and D. Wade. We should also draft John Wall. You guys have some ridiculous fixes.
Billy O
June 14th, 2010
9:45 am
JJ has no heart…..all about what’s in it for him. Players like that can never lead to a championship. He is a really good player… but not a champion. Common sense tells you that……if you have common sense.
letjoego
June 14th, 2010
9:54 am
Joe’s game speaks for itself. No heart, lost a step, blames everyone but himself for the Hawks failures. He is considered a plus defender but that’s a joke. Watched him get blown by routinely and his rotations were half a**ed. His rebounding was weak for 6-7 240lb shooting guard, at that size you need to be a dominant rebounder for the position.Only thing we will miss is his ability to space the floor, still a great shooter, but he doesn’t seem willing so subvert his iso-game for the team’s good.
Jase
June 14th, 2010
9:55 am
Resign jj and get a center
JC
June 14th, 2010
10:03 am
They’ve gotten along well under Woody, I don’t know why that would change. You look at one of Drew’s support outlets – the locker room. The players like him. I think it’s a much safer assumption that Joe is among those voices of support than that he is harboring a secret grudge against an assistant coach. Drew was hired to win in the playoffs, and according to reports of his interviews with Sund and ASG, he’s got a pretty good plan.
If you’re playing for a team that’s pretty good with a coach that you like pretty well with a plan that’s not half-bad and a salary that’s out of this world, you could do much much worse.
really??
June 14th, 2010
10:43 am
Nothing on why the Hawks made this horrid hire???? The media in this town needs to get a pair!!!! Really, the asst coach for the coach that was fired??? Toooooo much!
Big Ray
June 14th, 2010
10:45 am
1) Yep, it all comes down to money in the end. Wanting to play elsewhere does factor in, of course. But why are we acting like there’s a choice between letting him go and letting him stay? The choice has been, and still is – Joe’s.
2) Playing ball in the way that best benefits the team should be something a professional like Joe Johnson can do. But don’t think for one minute that this will factor into whether or not we sign him. See Point #1. If Joe stays, it will be Drew’s responsibility to put Joe in the proper spots in his new offense. It will be Joe’s responsibility to adhere to the system. I don’t see how this will be an issue, especially if it works out to make things easier on Joe. Will it require an adjustment period? Probably. How long that takes is up to coach, player, and teammates.
3) If Joe wants to stay, the Hawks will keep him. However, a contract for 6 years is probably not a good idea, at least not at 18 mil per year. 5 years is better, but if Joe demands a sixth (again, at 18..or even more)year, then the Hawks may want to get serious about a sign and trade. Reason being, unless the Hawks believe that Johnson’s miserable playoff performance was directly related to Mike Woodson’s offensive system and/or the fact that the entire team quit on him, then Johnson has proven that he is not worth that amount of money.
The only caveat I can think of is that paying Johnson may be worth the money if no reasonably acceptable sign and trade deals exist. In other words, if you’re going to have your money tied up for several years, then you may as well have it tied up in known product that already exists on your roster, rather than one you’re bringing in, which may not only make the team worse, but actually damage it. This all comes down to proper asset management, which is never easy to do.
If Braves’ Pendleton got blame before, he better credit now | Jeff Schultz
June 14th, 2010
10:46 am
[...] ♦ Larry Drew’s first issue: What to do with Joe Johnson? [...]
Terrell
June 14th, 2010
10:46 am
Cedrick (Texas Hawk),
We know that Avery was a pretty good coach of a really good Dallas Mavericks team that was winning when he was an assistant there. This is a similar situation with Drew. The only difference was that when Nelson was the head coach of the Mavs he couldn’t get them to play D but Avery did. In Atl it’s the oppoiste. Woodson have a defensive philosophy that was effective most of the season, but his offensive play calling was in question. It’s been said that Drew was more creative in the offensive sets during practice with the 2nd unit.
Regardless of what is said, what hurt us was the offensive let downs that we had, because there were times our D was doing well but the O wasn’t on point and as a result it began to affect what happened on the D because players were getting frustrated.
Big Ray
June 14th, 2010
10:46 am
That is NOT to say that we shouldn’t try to keep Joe, but that we should be very careful about giving him anything like a max contract (6 yrs, 18 million per year).
Terrell
June 14th, 2010
10:51 am
really??,
Yep we fired the HC to hire the assistant. Kinda like Chicago did when they fired Doug Collins to hire Phil Jackson, or how when Don Nelson left a few years back and the Mavs hired assistant Avery Johnson, or how Terry Porter was fired and the Suns hired Alvin Gentry, or better yet when Pat Riely stepped down as HC and hired assitant Stan Van Gundy when he was with the Heat.
LEA
June 14th, 2010
10:54 am
I wouldn’t mind having Joe back, BUT not under any circumstance. That could cost us money or players. He’s getting older, and is just not worth max money..
Terrell
June 14th, 2010
10:56 am
Here’s the problem I see with the sign and trade of JJ. You all have said he’s not worth the big money based on what he hasn’t done in the playoffs. The only way a sign and trade would work is if we give him a max contract and another team believes he’s worth a max contract but from the looks of it I don’t think other teams feel that he is so that idea won’t work. As a result, he can sign with any team. The only leverage we have is that we can offer him 6 years, but if nobody else wants to do that then it doesn’t help us at all.
Halsey
June 14th, 2010
10:57 am
The Hawks should at least try for Dwayne Wade. JJ is good, but Wade is elite. There’s no harm in trying.
Wink
June 14th, 2010
10:59 am
The short answer should Joe go is No. I would prefer that he move on and we get a fresh start here.
That said this franchise does no show any signs of wanting to breathe new air into the Hawks growth. They are stuck in status quo:
Bring in Sund expecting change, we get Woody resigned for two years.
We change out the six man Crawford for Flip.
We mess up two drafts with no meaningful minutes for 1st round draft picks.
We resign they same players for the bench,(over pay Marvin, extend Bibby & ZaZa contracts)exhausting funds for FA 2010; Oh yeah we gave a player option to Mo Evans for 2 mil plus which he just exercised, eating up more cap space.
Let’s not forget we have not closed the door on Childress, that our annual indecisive question mark?
Of course we don’t resign JJ before we executed the before mentioned contracts; now we don’t know if we will have a marque player, although a very reluctant one in JJ.
Sund wines & dines two retreads in Collins & Joe Smith, which neither was given an opportunity to play as was expected from Woody.
Now we bring in Woody’s six year assistant, Drew, who was part of the staff, all he has going for him is familiarity. Can’t believe Woody did not listen to his lead assistant’s viewpoint for SIX years.
So good luck to Drew, because with 14 years experience as an assistant, I hope he can draw upon his experience from his other coaching stops prior to Woody; anybody but Woody and I guess Drew fits anybody request.
So expect JJ to resign with the Hawks because they can offer him the most money, provided Drew wants him on the team and JJ want hang with his teammates, thru thick & thin…maybe he will leave because the fans did not show him any love.
Your team for 2011 will be basically the same 1 thru 8 with little to no change at bottom of roster, unless the 1st round pick and some free agent castoffs make the team. Status Quo for 2011
Gamer
June 14th, 2010
12:15 pm
Usually, I don’t weigh in on these kind of scenarios, but Smoking Gun Joe Johnson is the Hawks best all-around player and he’s one of my favorite NBA players because of his end-to-end efforts he gives on a nightly basis. Especially, during the regular-season. I would like to see his shot percentage at or above 42% during post-season.
With this in mind, I think Joe’s decision will be contingent on money and a team that is championship ready…these are diagnosis.
But what do I know?
Tweets that mention Larry Drew's first issue: What to do with Joe Johnson? | Jeff Schultz -- Topsy.com
June 14th, 2010
1:54 pm
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by QRahevar, PRahevar, ORahevar, NRahevar, KRahevar and others. KRahevar said: What to do with Joe Johnson?: Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) This post was mentioned on Twitter by . said: [..... http://cli.gs/6XXWP [...]
Seth HArdizzle
June 14th, 2010
2:38 pm
I dont think Joe will be back because he wants to be a tag along with a lebron or d-wade. HOw bout this… we loose Joe and get a guy like Carlos Boozer. Plug him in at the 4 or 5 and move Josh to the 3 giving us a strong front court. Let Crawford and Teague run the back court. Not only does this help us on the boards and interior scoring but it puts Marvin on the bench where he belongs. Bibby can still come off the bench and if we could get another low profile solid team player to add we could have something.
FMX
June 14th, 2010
3:34 pm
JJ is only an allstar because he had the ball most of the time. His success is the direct product of Woody’s Iso-Joe offense. I doubt he hangs around now to be a part of the team. Woody’s offense had earned him his money. We are heading in a new direction. I think that guys like Marvin and Josh will benefit most with a new offense.
JC
June 14th, 2010
3:45 pm
If JJ leaves, according to the Ewing Theory, the Hawks will make the Finals next year:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/010509a
i_am_soulstar
June 14th, 2010
3:51 pm
No one seems to know what Joe is thinking, so unless Drew can find out and find a way to influence it, he’s better off focusing on what he can control.
The main complaint I’ve heard about the rookie is that while he has the tools to be a point guard, he’s soft spoken and laid-back ON THE COURT, and so doesn’t quite have the personality to quarterback a team. Any psychologist will tell you that behavior is the hardest thing in the world to change. So if Drew can have success getting Teague to command respect from his team and run the offense efficiently, he’ll have succeeded in my book.
i_am_soulstar
June 14th, 2010
3:57 pm
JC, greatest sports link I’ve ever clicked on. Thanks man.
NBA.com
June 14th, 2010
4:05 pm
http://www.nba.com/live1/
tyler
June 14th, 2010
4:25 pm
let joe go
Pat
June 14th, 2010
4:46 pm
The truth is that JJ would fit in better in Miami than in Atlanta. He is a true second option but not a first. He is Robin but not Batman. I would rather take that money and get a servicable defense minded center and a good spot up shooter.
harry the hawk
June 14th, 2010
5:00 pm
The Hawks have real chemistry issues that start at the top and seep throughout the organization. Sadly, getting rid of Woody only addressed one part of it. Sund’s wait-and-see attitude (in a “go-go” sport) on every key decision will always be a hurdle….consistent lack of leadership at point guard is already sending up red flags. ASG’s dysfunction/inept behavior seems to transfer directly from the courtroom to the hardwood .
Bottom-line is, this is a team strongly in need of a clear voice to help drive things to the next level. We already know this won’t come from Joe—for that reason (as our highest paid player) he has to go. I also have serious doubts that this will come from Larry Drew (too docile and too entrenched in the old system among some major player/management personalities).
Not a pretty picture in a stronger overall conference. As Michael Ray Richardson so eloquently stated about the Knicks, “The ship be sinkin”….
tidog
June 14th, 2010
6:08 pm
CMW designed the offense with Joe as # 1 iso. The ball remained in his hand too long to the detriment of the team. The simple offense was boring in the words of Kenny the jet Smith. It was a nesscessity early on and paid dividends. If the offense was able to evolve MW probably still is CMW. Joe has to adapt he has no choice. Teams aren”t willing to run that sort of offense. The hawks were the only team to consistently run the iso and it failed horribly in the playoffs. The hawks are his best fit. He is a go to player and you got to have a go to player in the league. Teams that don’t won’t be in the playoffs. If joe goes to a playoff team with its go to man he’ll have to adapt. Why not adapt with the new regime in atlanta.
tidog
June 14th, 2010
6:18 pm
The hawks are not a playoff team without Joe Johnson and you may as well face it. You can’t lose his ppg, not replace them and think you are in the playoff hunt. So leave the meth alone come off the high, he is the leader, the go to man. No Joe No Playoffs period.
BigCaliDawg
June 14th, 2010
8:09 pm
Our #1 objective last offseason was to sign a big to help out Al and Za Za. We signed Joe Smith. Letting JJ walk and plugging-in Jamal is a much simpler solution than the one we put a used band-aid on last off-season. Just because we signed Joe Smith does not mean that issue was solved.
I would much rather see us spend that JJ money on a big that can actually play, not those 2 stiffs we got playin’ pocket pool on the bench. One would think that the way Dwight abused us would be salient enough for ownership to:
#1 Fix last off-season’s problem first
#2 sign a back-up for Jamal
#3 Get last years draft pick some meaningful playing time
They just glossed over the dang thing. Joe Smith, whatever………….
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June 14th, 2010
9:59 pm
[...] ♦ Larry Drew’s first issue: What to do with Joe Johnson? [...]
Sid
June 15th, 2010
7:03 am
Johnson is a legend in his own mind, anyone that thinks team is spelled with an I should be sent packing. What would it hurt, aren’t we “starting over” anyway……………….?
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June 15th, 2010
12:34 pm
[...] ♦ Larry Drew’s first issue: What to do with Joe Johnson? [...]
NUNNA!!
June 17th, 2010
5:48 am
WOW!!
MSDEE SAID@JUNE 14 2:03AM,”I read people saying,”We should keep Joe if we want to stay a 53+ win team, or Joe is our top scorer, top assists guy, etc, blah blah..” Yeah, that may all be true but only b/c Joe had the ball 95% of the time. I truly believe Joe was the reason Josh Smith all of a sutton converted back to his ole bad-decision-making mentality b/c Woodson would allow Joe to be the only guy creating for himself and not involving others in plays. Josh wanted to be apart of plays too and thats why he would take matters into his on hands and create mess for himself instead of plays for himself. If Joe stays, I think that would make it much harder for Drew to get his team to play for him the way he intends for them to play b/c Joe WILL want to continue to have the ball in his hands 95% of the time which will ultimately have the team looking and playing just like Woodson had them. I say, do a sign and trade for Joe to get some really good pieces so that Drew could have HIS team instead of keeping WOODSON’S team!”
I COULD NOT AGREE WITH YOU MORE!!
I AGREE:That josh smith does want to be involved more and faltered on his process from the year before because of the ISO offense.
And, that we should let Joe go and let Drew make this team his team now!
We can get a poor mans joe johnson,in REGGIE HOLMES,out of HBCU’S Morgan State University..
According to a MSU media relations representative, Holmes pleasantly surprised several scouts during the camp in Portsmouth, Va., which invited the top collegiate players in the nation to show off their skills to be potentially drafted or signed by NBA teams or other professional basketball clubs.
Holmes, recorded double-figures in each of the three tournament games he competed in, scoring a game-high 24 points with six rebounds in game-one, 22 points with seven rebounds in game-two and 15 points and six rebounds in game-three.
He quietly goes about playing his game and leaves it out on the floor and is a team player.
BE REAL
June 17th, 2010
1:53 pm
1. Joe Johnson is the Hawks best player. We are not gonna get equal value back for him. So if we keep him, focus on making changes to complement him. If he leaves, focus on making smart, financially responsible moves to secure flexibility in the future.
2. Stop talking about moving Josh Smith to the 3. He can’t shoot and doesn’t move well off the ball. He is a PF.
3. True Center? WTF! Hawks need a PG first and foremost. Horford may be a little undersized, but he can play position defense well enough. Hawks just need better a better defensive scheme with better rotation.
4. Let’s recognize the real problem with the Hawks: MIKE BIBBY.
Here are his contributions: Spaces Floor
Detractions: Defensive liability, slows the pace, HORRIBLE contract, he’s getting older…