Fixing the Hawks: fire Woodson, trade Joe, keep Josh

Could it be? First?

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Ok, on to the serious stuff.

First of all, can Josh play the 3? Do you really want him on the perimeter taking jump shots or, even worse, 3-pointers?

That sounds like a really bad idea to me.

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Jeff, I mostly agree except that Josh Smith can’t play the 3 on either end. He is effective around the basket but not out in space on either offense or defense. Horford and Smith are both 4’s, but there are no more of a handful of legitimate 5’s in the NBA. If the Hawks could somehow get one they’d need to move Smith in the trade or subsequently trade him for a legitimate 3 or a point guard.

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I agree with just about all of this.

Except, I would look into trading Josh Smith. I am just fed up with him. How is he going to respond to a new coach? I think you will see major problems if a new coach comes in and benches him for shooting his stupid jump shots or not getting back on D because he had to argue with a ref. Josh Smith is Josh Smith. This series proved that. There is a market for him. I think the Hawks should take a look.

I hope they can find a way to trade Joe Johnson to the worst team in the league.

Agree that Woodson needs to go. But, I put this debacle on the players. They are the ones who should be most accountable. Complete lack of effort. No pro athlete should ever have that problem.

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Everything but #4 is spot on. We definitely do not want Josh Smith to be moved to small forward, where his poor shooting habits will be maximized and his ferocity in the paint will be minimized. Rather than focusing on bringing in a new center, a position where we’ve already got a starting all-star, we should start exploring our trade options for a new small forward. Perhaps by packaging the rights to J-Chill and maybe a draft pick or two along with Marvin, we could bring in someone with a pulse. Marvin needs a change of scenery to get out of Chris Paul’s shadow in ATL anyways.

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Do you have specifific info that ‘Bosh’ would love to come back?
-or-
speculation?

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Jeff, the rumors are out there that Tony Parker may be available as well as Darren Collison. Would either of those guys be a good fit here. I would like CP3 as well as the next guy but I think that a lot would have to be given up to get him.

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Woodson does not need to be fired, his contract is up, just do not rehire him. He should be respected enough to not fire him, for what he HAS done. He definitely has talent to coach, but not at the playoff level. Kind of like Bobby Cox in that format. Neither one of them knows how to raise their coaching level, to the next level, to win the big games.
Trade Joe Johnson? Definitely, either for a center, or for draft picks, so we can move up in the draft to get a center. Joe Johnson is no more useful to the Hawks than tradebait. Mike Bibby, say bye, he is not an elite player at his position, good, yes, great, no.
Josh Smith, Al Horford and Crawford stays. Build the team around them. If one of them goes, fire the one who made the decision to trade him.
Fact. No team makes it past the second round without an outstanding center, and with a forward who stops going forward in the playoffs. We have no natural center, Joe Johnson stops at the gate entrance when it comes to the playoffs. Just imagine how good Al Horford will be when he can play his natural position fulltime, without having Joe Johnson around. Al Horford is a phenominal player. Some people have “it” to play at a high level during regular competition. The great ones have the ability to raise their level even high, that is Horford and Crawford, time will tell on Josh Smith, when he matures into his talent.
Remodel this team – do not tear it down and rebuild it. BUT, who is the coach to take this team to the next level. I have no idea. Suggestion Do not renew coach Woodson’s contract. Put out a statement “all who are interested in this job, please send me your resume. It is time to take the next step. We just do not know that man’s name today.” Ask the great coaches who are active, but not going anywhere “who would hire if you were me?”
Just now re-read your comments on Chris Bosh. If you are just replacing Joe Johnson, you are not upgrading. GET A REAL CENTER.

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Oh yeah, don’t get your hopes up about Jeff Teague…watched him for two years playing for my alma mater. He’s a whiny, spoiled brat who can’t play defense. Darren Collison, hell he might make Chris Paul expendable due to his salary point, is definitely a better option.

Too bad y’all won’t be able to afford Chris Bosh since you paid Mike Bibby 4 times what he’s actually worth! The ASG would be much better off spending $6 M for Sergei Gonchar or $5 M for Anton Volchenkov. If the Habs can play lockdown D with the stiffs they have on the blueline, then the playoff revenue future for the Thrashers should be bright.

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Sign Rudy Gay to offer sheet. Trade Joe to Spurs for Parker.

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I agree with all of this, except the recommendation for the new coach. It needs to be someone with head coaching experience and a successful track record. The fans are not going to be happy about giving the job to an untried assistant from a failed regime.

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Jeff: You got it right, all right, and Joe Johnson is the prim a dona type that holds his own value higher than anyone else does. A center is an absolute necessity if the Hawks will ever have a chance to beat Orlando.

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Josh Smith is a loser – can anyone ever imagine any of the greats loafing like he did in the middle of a PLAYOFF series??
Time for a new coach – the players have stopped listening, and there needs to be some sort of a half-court offense other than clear-outs.
Find a way to replace Joe Johnson – he can NEVER redeem himself here after playing so small…..

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In case Rick Sund is reading this

Here are some options I saw online @http://www.onlinebasketballbetting.net/what-the-atlanta-hawks-can-do-if-joe-johnson-wants-out/

No.1: Hawks get Devin Harris and Courtney Lee, Nets get Joe Johnson.
No.2: Hawks get the draft rights to Ricky Rubio and a future first round pick, Timberwolves get Joe Johnson.
No.3: Hawks get Monta Ellis and CJ Watson, Warriors get Joe Johnson.
No.4: Hawks get Michael Beasley, Miami’s 2010 first round pick and a couple of future first rounders, Heat get Joe Johnson.

All of these are great ideas as Far as I am concerned

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Can someone explain to me “sign and trade?”

I thought Joe could walk after the season?

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dtc,

I believe the Celtics just one it all without a ‘outstanding’ center. It can be done and is not our most glaring need. If we let joe go we have got to get a good, tall, physical PG who can defend. We can not start Crawford without a good defensive PG it would be a ugly and we would need to score 120 pts a game to win.

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The Devin Harris trade option would solve both the Joe Johnson and defensive PG problem

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Rajon Rondo took quite a while to round into an elite point guard so we can hope for Jeff Teague… though sitting on the bench and not playing at all I’m not sure has worked much for him because he’s going to have to take another year to learn on the court but Woody is the coach….and that’s his philosophy.

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The Magic have a Superstar center who basically sets the tone for the rest of the Team. There are not very many big men available, unfortunately. It’s a lot like the Dawgs – we had three big men this past year, but none of them were above average talent. In modern basketball in either D1 or the pros, you have got to have strength and power in your inside game. Travis Leslie is an extraordinary talent, but once the best teams in the SEC figured out that his game is to try to go the rim, they were able to blunt much of his attack (the dunk over Kentucky notwithstanding). His size hurts him when he trys to “muscle it” inside. Not only that, but the Hawks have no reliable outside shooters that you can count on for 20 points a game (and no,I don’t think Joe fits the bill – he has shown time and again in the playoffs that he does not have what it takes to be a true leader).

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@Rock Preston I agree with you. With Rudy Gay, plus trading for Devin Harris and Courtney Lee, we are actually an improved team.

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hawks do not have a leader on the team! Need team leder(s) not a team with egos!!

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If the NETS really think Joe will help them form a “lethal” backcourt. I say let them have at him and we will be better off. If the NETS get the number one pick, no way they keep Devin Harris. I think we need to get on this deal ASAP.

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[...] moves were anticipated as much as that of Simon Phipps (above). You might call him the Joe Johnson of Sun open source. So far he has gone all Matt Asay on us with a blog, and announced he is joining [...]

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I agree with this whole article and do need to keep Josh I just think Josh isn’t really trying because of the fact that their coach was Woody and he and Woody have never really got along so this is pretty obvious that a new coach will push him and Josh is young and has a lot of potential as fans I want someone who is young who has talent Josh just needs heart and a new coach can do that as far as Joe, I think his time has come & it’s time for him to go…

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Ok. Here it is one more time for those who are not seeing the genius.
Starters
Devin Harris
Courtney Lee
Rudy gay
Josh Smith
Al Horford

Bench
Jamal Crawford
Marvin williams
Mike Bibby(if not dropped or traded)
Jeff Teague
ZaZA P
and spare parts

Coach
Avery Johnson.

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Trade Josh

JOSH is a QUITTER, he has proven it on multiple occasions. Mental toughness and focus are what you develop as a child…NOT 6 YEARS INTO YOUR CAREER!!!!

KEEP JOE

6′7 240 lbs 21pts 5rbs 5ast and our best perimeter defender…YOU DON’T GET RID OF GUYS LIKE THAT. GET YOUR HEADS OUT OF YOUR BUTTS!!

PLUS…If Josh leaves Al will assume he place as the leader of this team..JOSH WILL NOT BE LEAD…we have 6 years of proof.

JOSH TRADE…could equal Monta Ellis, Devin Harris or Tony Parker. My choice is Parker…Contract is shorter and the(Spurs) may have to take Bibby to get it done.

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Hawks Suck!!!! Fire,trade everyone time to start from the begining and by the way, Joe will not help any team in the NBA,so over rated.

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Wow – Bosh would be a fantastic fit. I loved watching this team develop the past few years, but I have to admit that they’ve gone about as far as they can go without some major shape ups. I also don’t think I can stick up for Woodson much anymore. I think the lack of creativity hits the nail on the head pretty well (along with not being able to get these guys motivated).

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keep Josh Marvin Teauge Crawford Horford & ZaZa, Put Horford at the 4 spot, let Josh and Marvin have the three together, let teauge start, and bring Crowford off the bench, find a center and a shooting guard and put them all on ten day contracts.

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Also, Najeh makes a great point, Josh is NOT a 3. If you’re gonna slide Al to the 4, Josh has to go.

To that end, if I talk to Golden State, I’d see if I could do Monta for Josh. Or maybe Josh for a package including Anthony Randolph (along with Turiaf, Biedrins or whatever contracts to make it work).

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@Schultz: You stealing my ideas? I said Jeff Van Gundy over a week ago.
And now you suddenly want to get rid of Joe Johnson days after I register the domain number2sucks.com? I am flattered.
Now if I can get you on the Devin harris, Courtney Lee, Rudy Gay train we will be just peachy.

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I agree on not signing woodson and letting joe walk and even also keeping josh. I just think josh needs a different coach, the right coach to straighten him up a little bit more. look how far he has come, he will only get better. Statistics have proved that. I would love to see tony parker come in because we are missing that superstar at point. We wont be able to get cp3 because we will have to give up to much. The one thing that I do not agree with is signing chris bosh and not getting a legitamate 7 footer. If we sign bosh we are still in the same boat we are in now and thats nobody to guard howard or any other big man in the league. That means you still leave horford at the 5 spot. Everyone needs to give sund a chance because as any true atlanta hawk fan would know we are still trying to overcome all of the bad moves that billy knight made. Sund is on the right track and this will be his 3rd season coming up so this one is very important since there are some key moves that need to be made. He knows just like we all do what needs to happen with some things, im sure he gets on here or hears some of the stuff that we say on here. Trust Sund, he will make the right moves.

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Get a new coach get rid of Woodson. Joe can sign and trade. “No.4: Hawks get Michael Beasley, Miami’s 2010 first round pick and a couple of future first rounders, Heat get Joe Johnson.”
Dr. PHil dont do it Beasley has no work ethnic. Keep Josh see if a vetern coach can get something out of him if not look to trade next year mid season. As for point guard sit Bibby look to develop Teague also bring in a guard but its a known fact Woodson doesnt like playing rookie. We are the four best team in the east but it is a large gap between us and the top 3. Start with the Head coach and when you hire a new one let him help you decide what we need to do. But go for a vet first whos been in the league and knows basketball. not a group of people that just tired of us losing

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You skipped the real first 2 steps.

Sund needs to figure out the best style of play for this team. Then he makes roster assessments on who is a keeper and who is the subject of well placed trade rumors within the media.

After that, you get your new coach.

Personally, aside from Al, I doubt I would say anyone is untouchable. However, some are more likely to stay than others. Keep in mind that Joe didn’t play ISO Joe until he met Woody. They didn’t play all dribble no drive in Phoenix.

Somewhere in your plan, you need to allocate space for a shooter. If Joe leaves, while Bibby & Marvin hit the bench, then you either need an Okur type shooting center or a new SG who has range. Otherwise, everyone will pack it in and let Josh fire up 3s.

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I agree with a lot of the comments already posted. Josh Smith cannot play the 3 position. NO seems to have fell in love with Darren Collison, so they may be open to trade Chris Paul. Al Horford needs to be moved to the 4 position. Josh Smith will either have to come off the bench or package him in a trade to bring in a Center or PG.

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[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Tony Simmons. Tony Simmons said: Fixing the Hawks: fire Woodson, trade Joe, keep Josh http://bit.ly/b2e6Rd [...]

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Let Joe go and sign Wade. Then sign Allen Iverson for some major scoring punch! Mutombo could be coaxed out of retirement for a bargain. Trade Josh Smith + Jeff Teague for Dwight Howard and Marvin Williams for Brandon Roy. Package Bibby, Randolph Morris, and Zaza for Nowitzki. Get Marbury back to the NBA. Steve Smith still works out and practices at small forward now, so we might as well take advantage of that. Penny Hardaway is probably cheap now too and he can come off the bench. Then get Viliu Roskanovich from the Russian League who has been lighting it up. Keep Jason Collins who showed some great D in the playoffs. Brad Stevens will come here to coach and get control of these players.

Iverson/Marbury
Wade/Roy/Penny
Steve Smith/Roskanovich
Nowitzki/Collins
Dwight Howard/Mutombo

Coach Brad Stevens

Is no one else seeing the genius in this?

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MannyT if that is the case about Sund if he does it the way you said then when a new coach comes in his hands is tied as to how to run his offense and defense. and that will put the hawks behind a year. Bring coach in first and coach and Sund sit and decide together whats the next step.

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just read a rumor on espn.com nba’s home page that joe johnson might be doing a sign and trade with dallas which would be great. If they want him bad enough dallas will give up some pieces. That means you get a legit 7 footer in brendan haywood and a good scorer in caron butler. That would be a great trade. You answer one of your holes you have and everyone will get to see horford go to his natural 4 position.

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@Jeff Schultz…
OK, I told you last night I wanted to hear “specifics.” There were some, but I still see a lot of “ifs.” That is not a criticism, it is a point.

So let me go through this, from the bottom to the top, so indulge me…
You call it getting “tougher.” Michael Cunningham calls it “basketball intelligence.” I call it “athletic accountability.” Self awareness is the most liberating thing in the creation. It keeps one from lying to one’s self… This team lacks this in truck loads. If they had it, they would have been driving to the basket, cutting through the high and low posts and having 4 players crushing the defensive boards from the opening tip of game 1. It is no secret why this team has regressed as Mike Bibby’s skills have deteriorated. He (and Horford) is the only player on that roster who have inkling of on the court basketball sense. Unfortunately, he is now Craig Hodges, Steve Kerr, Sidney Moncrief at the end of his run, just a shell of what he was, a 19-20 min. hired gun who should float into the offense but can not defend any more. In the best of all worlds, you have a Lamar Odom at 3/4 or Derek Fisher that can stabilize you when your star is off the floor. Childress can’t do that, Flip Murray can’t do it and sure enough Marvin Williams has never warmed to it… Only two players on the current roster have any basketball IQ, and they both over the hill (Bibby and Joe Smith).

Coaching is study, preparation, teaching and in-game execution. Look, Al McGuire couldn’t coach offense to save his life. He was a demon of a defensive coach but his offensive accoutrement was zero. He had the good sense to hire Hank Raymonds who was this side of Tex Winter a offensive flow genius. Players must become extensions of what you plan. This team has never appreciated that driving to the basket is an art. There 3 things that Hawks GM and owners need to demand of whoever they bring in as a coaching candidate. 1. Have them sit in a 1 hour tape session with Jeff Teague, Josh Smith and Marvin Williams individually and collectively. In that session make those players breakdown what is happening on the floor and their responsibility, their teammates job and what went wrong or right on those plays. After that, if that coach can’t tell you how to work with those 3 players, move on to the next candidate. 2. Any candidate must have a bench coach with NBA head coaching experience or extensive D-1 head coaching success. I don’t care if it is Terry Porter, John MacLeod, anybody but Fratello. A great candidate would be Ritchie Adubuto simply because he knows the Magic inside/out since he been doing radio color for them. 3. Hire Mark Price as your full time shot coach, no outside consulting, strictly Hawks and make him your offensive asst. head coach.

Finally Organization….
This team must reevaluate, what are we? How did we fail so badly? Where do we plan to be at the end of 1st mini camp?

There is so much more, but that is where I’d start…

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Coach – Doc Rivers, he said he is leaving boston.

Center – Horford he is a future Tiny Tim almost as good size matters only against Howard

Power Forward – Josh Smith, Maybe being beat by a friend and seeing how listening to a vet (Ewing) and working on his game has taken that friend to another level may wake him up. (Howard did’nt listen at first) OIA shh noly in Atlanta.

Small Forward – Marvin Williams, If Kobe only got 10 shots a game and no plays his avaerage might be the same.

Shooting Gaurd – Jamal Crawford, let’s get someone that can be groomed to start and let them come off the bench for at least half the year.

Point – If we can’t get a pure point that can start let Teague try it.

Bench – Pa P’U’ la must go and find a real center to back up Horford and play alongside him in certian situations.
Spot up shooter like Mark Price and Kerr to stretch a defense (deadly accurate)
Defensive specialist and banger.

These are your tools to succeed

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Too bad the ASG doesn’t have enough money to actually afford guys like Rudy Gay or Devin Harris to play with JJ and J-Smoove. They’d be better off getting rid of JJ and letting Crawford play the 2. Teague, while defensively weak, can push the tempo and get teams on their heels, which will open things up on the perimeter for Crawford, Evans and Bibby off the bench. Bring in some defensive minded types who will commit to playing an up-tempo, pressure the ball style of b’ball. Force teams to play at your speed and hope for the best. Dwight Howards and Stoudamires don’t grow on trees so you’ll be forced to do things a different way. But the Orlando Magic don’t exactly rely on Howard to dominate a game. The biggest difference is their commitment to defense and the ability to SHOOT THE BASKETBALL CONSISTENTLY.

So, in other words ASG, you are better off in investing in a quality puck mover like Gonchar and a true pivot like Plekanec to take your team to the playoffs and get yourself some of that NHL playoff money. You will have guaranteed sell-outs without having to discount your lower level seats…hardy har har!

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Jeff Teague should’ve taken care of his own development…

…BY STAYING IN COLLEGE FOOL!

Then again, Gaudio couldn’t coach is way out of a paper bag.

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The Hawks are a nice young athletic team with no real center. Al Horford would be a great PF, but to put him up against D-Howard is not fair. The Magic was the worst possible matchup for the Hawks. The Magic are for real, and the Cavs/Celtics better beware.

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I like most of the ideas here.Bringing in Haywood and Ridnour would be good moves.I love the idea of Bosh coming here,but there is o way Josh can play the 3.We dont have the cap space to sign Bosh.The only way to pull that off would be sign and trade.Who should we give up Josh or Joe.Jeff says let Joe go and keep Josh.If Josh could play the 3 i would agree,since he cant u have to keep Joe.Therefore trade Josh,Bibby,and Childress for Bosh and Calderon.If that cat be done then maybe they should put together a package and go after a pg like Harris,Parker or Paul.It is not time to break the team,but a few tweaks cant hurt.

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New coach, No more Joe, Give Josh another chance with a new coach, bench or fire Bibby, Bosh would be SWEET and definitely give Teague his shot at running the team. Nobody has any idea what he can do yet because Woody didn’t let him play. At least give him the ball and see what happens. It can’t get worse at the point than what it is now!

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Amare Stoudemire can’t guard centers and he gets most of his offense off of great passes from Steve Nash. If Al Horford and/or Josh Smith got the chance to play with a great point guard like Nash or Chris Paul or Deron Williams, they’d look like much better offensive players than they do when they’re standing around watching iso-Joe.

And K-Dub, Najeh and others are right about Josh Smith. He can’t play the 3 on either end. The TNT crew pointed out last night how his shot blocking had been taken away in the Orlando series because they pulled him away from the basket. Not that he figured out how to go out as far as the 3 point line to defend Rashard Lewis. Josh can’t guard a perimeter oriented 4 like Lewis or Nowitzki and some people actually think he can guard 3’s?

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Jeff I’m not sure this ownership group will be able to get us to the next level. The Hawks have improved that’s for sure but they haven’t been too open to opening their wallets to buy some proven talent. I remember well the Falcons and what it took to generate a winning team and mentality-new ownership.

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first hire head coach who can coach. Sign Dwayne wade.trade bibby for point guard. if we cant sign D wade go after A.Stoudemire or Bosh. then find some pure shooter to come of the bench.

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I say keep johnson and get devin harris.. Get Avery Johnson who has coached Harris in the past.. Add Brandon Haywood and you might have a better team!!!! Trade Bibby and Marvin for Harris

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When Woodson was hired he was a nobody and still is. There were three coaches available at that time that had Championship experience. They went the cheap route. Yes Hawks have gotten better. To get sweeped two years in a row. Hello, wake up. Get a real coach.

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ok….ok….ok….i got it….here we go….

1st: IMO get a new management team…ASG just sucks big time.

2nd: Get rid of Sund. Horrible GM so far… The Jamaal signing was a GIFT from an old friend.

3rd: Get rid of Woody. Nuff said.

4th: Joe has got to go. Obviously.

5th: Marvin’s time has run out.

6th: Bibby’s days are numbered. Release him.

7th: Josh is the only player with any trade value. Sorry Josh. See ya.

8th: Everyone on the bench is worthless except for Jamaal and Teague. Get rid of the rest.

9th: KEEP AL!!!!

So…..lets see….that leaves Jamaal and Teague and Al and infinite possiblities.

GO HAWKS!!!!

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Hey, I can coach both. We run the same offense.

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YEAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

96!!!!!

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

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I think the Hawks should keep Woody he is a great coach and you need consistancy with the coaching staff and get a Center. Get rid Joe Johnson and a real team leader who can tell thst young team some on the court toughness in the 4th quarter. AGain KEEP WOODY!!!!!!!

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@K-Dub: I totally agree with you…That would be horrible to see Josh out there chasing the Paul Pierces, Vince Carters, and Danny Grangers of the world. It is obvious that Josh could NEVER be able to play the 3. I mean, there is real problem, when, you’re on the perimeter, no one is even attempting to go guard you because they know you’re not going to make it and the whole arena is yelling “NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO JOSH!” LOL. You would think that, for someone who has been in the league as long as he has, he would have developed some kind of jumpshot…It’s time to trade Josh.

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Exit: Woodson, Bibby, Mo Evans

Enter: Avery Johnson, Travis Outlaw, Brendan Heywood, and A.J Price

Draft: Gordon Heyward or Gani Lawal

Re-Sign: Joe Johsnon

GET ER’ DONE SUND!

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Since Atlanta won’t want to spend money on a big name coach, if they were smart they would look down the bench of the team that just smacked them upside their heads. Patrick Ewing has been waiting for a head coaching spot for years and is chomping at the chance. Plus he’s the one that works with Howard on a regular basis. What better seneraio could you ask for, you get a cheap coach that knows your main divison competition inside and out, and you get to cripple that team and their best player. Sounds like a no brainer to me.

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.
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#7) Disregard #’s 1-6 above and cease to participate in this madness!

Really, does anyone reading my words right now truly believe that in today’s modern world we need to be financing a bunch of illiterate, tattooed goons run up and down a wooden floor to put a round ball inside a larger round circular device in exchange for millions upon millions of dollars? Hey, I’m all about free enterprise and all but buying tickets to sit in tiny little chairs and contributing to this silliness just doesn’t strike me as an intelligent use of my time and money.

The answer for this is the same for most of us reading this. Stop awarding these uneducated and ungrateful taller men and their sleaze agents with enormous, guaranteed multi-year contracts and place all of them on a $100,000 base salary with performance incentives that could yield up to $500,000. All of the same players you watch would still be there as none are capable of or smart enough to make this anywhere else and never again will you have to watch a player loafing or staring at something other than his coach during a timeout. If they get it, they will have earned it!

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I agree with the decision to get Doc Rivers… He could develop Teague into a Rondo-esque player. Not to mention his demeanor of actually caring would help gain the confidence of his players. The only thing Woodson developed was that nasty looking goatee.
Joe missed his big pay-day by turning down Atlanta’s offer earlier this season. He definitely won’t get the kind of money he was looking for now; especially going “O”-for…
I say we keep Josh Smith and just have Doc busts him in the mouth the first time he whines or has an outbursts. Woodson was so passive that disrespect and discord was obvious on the team. These guys are young men and boys and they need leadership that sometimes calls for tough love.
I like Zaza because of his work ethic and hustle, but he needs to develop a jumper in the off season. Horford could also practice his vert in the off season. I’ll never understand why someone that big will settle for a 1 foot jumper??? Trade Marvin Williams, M. Bibby, Jason Collins, and Joe Smith for a true center (Tyson Chandler??).

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All good points, nice blog. I think a new coach = Josh Smith being a better player. He hates woody & so do I!! Lol, what a freaking train wreck that series was. But the Hawks are NOT that far away, have talent but need exactly what you said Shultz. Now the reality of actually doing a sign and trade with Joe, in my opinion, isn’t likely. I think he has KILLED himself with this post season.

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Shultz, Van Gundy is a loser in the playoffs also why would we want him? Maybe he can hold onto Howard’s leg to slow him down?He also had one the 50 greatest players of all time Mr. Patrick Ewing, who is helping Dwight Howard to be a player and still lost in the playoffs. Woody needs to change his staff up, get a big man and a point guard coach to work with the team Woody has loser assistants around him what have they won on any level, I think we’re find as far as a coach but If we do need a new coach I think it should be Mo Cheeks, he has won a title as a player, he could bring in Moses Malone(winner) to work with the big men, and Andrew Toney(winner) to work with the wing players. Drew can’t lead this team, nor could Van Dummy! In closing when Terrence Moore call Bobby Cox’s job years ago the rest of you guys (media) swept in under the rug. Bobby Cox had the best pitchers Money could by for 10 yrs or longer, know ones was calling for his job but Mr. Moore! Stop asking for a new Coach, we need a 1 and a 5 in The ATL.

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[...] moves were anticipated as much as that of Simon Phipps (above). You might call him the Joe Johnson of Sun open source. So far he has gone all Matt Asay on us with a blog, and announced he is joining [...]

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Larry: I’m all for it as long as you force the executives of all the major corporations do the same. You see, they have ripped the American people off for BILLIONS AND BILLIONS of dollars.

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Jeff, all great points. Will you be addressing the ASG as part of the equation in upcoming articles? Maybe there is nothing left to say about this merry band of owners that the fans of bb & hockey have not already figured out.

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Jeff, whose team does this become if Joe is traded for role players, draft picks and/or expiring contracts? Is it possible for Josh Smith or Al Horford to be the man in ATL?

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I think Horford should be the captain/leader of the team. He’s showing he’s not afraid to be vocal, and he’s the most consistent and level-headed of the starters.

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Bosh at center, he’s a power forward, that’s the problem now. How about coaching the two they have, Haywood was giving a chance to play and he’s improved. Coaching and a chance to play could do wonders

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Jonh Koncak,

In either case, the NBA or Executives from major corporations, we can excercize the choice to support their businesses or not. What is your choice?

Besides, I know of no “executive” that has a 6 year contract for 20 million a year to play about 40 minutes of round ball 3-4 times a week! Do you?

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Most ex coaches sound like John Wooden when doing game analysis on TV. Remember all of them that you hear on TV were fired several times (Jeff Van Gundy, Hubie Brown, Mike Fratello, Doug Collins) and usually for good reason). Hell, if Mike Woodson was on TV we would probably want him to coach the Hawks.

Jeff Van Gundy – his offenses in New York and Houston were as predictable as Woody’s.

Hubie Brown – besides the fact that he damn near 80 years old, I don’t think most of the bloggers here remember when Hubie coached the Kentucky Colonels, Atlanta Hawks and New York Knicks. GREAT X and O guy but he has some major personality issues.
A little Hubie history….. http://lexnihilnovi.blogspot.com/2009/11/hubie-brown-bill-russell-is-moron.html

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JC, my money would be on AH, if (and I mean IF) Sund is smart enough to see that a true BIG man is needed in the worst way. That would free AH to return to his roots as a power forward where I happen to think he could do some damage. The kid has skilz! And JS ain’t no leader man! He’s unfortunately suffering from the hometown disease. He’s got way too much on him. I think you do something with him too while he has mad value.

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You’re right Larry. The Execs steal more like 20 million a month for having cocktail parties and giving themselves bonuses for making their bonus.

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Three players the Hawks should pursue this offseason:

Chris Bosh- A true center who is a proven leader and a defensive presence. Too long have other teams (Boston, Orlando, Cleveland, LAL, etc.) bossed us around inside with little if any shots contested. Bosh would love to come back “home” and play for fans willing to embrace him.

Dwayne Wade- This will probably not happen, but Rick Sund owes it to the fan base to entertain the idea of a true superstar coming to town. He would replace JJ and go beyond the offensive and defensive capabilities JJ has shown. Perhaps most importantly, Wade has proven that his level of play only increases in the playoffs (something JJ could not figure out). Just tell the fans this idea is being entertained.

Ray Allen- A veteran presence. The last “pure” 3-point shooter. This guy can still get it done. He’ll be an unrestricted free agent after this season. He’s been on a championship team in the past, so he knows what it will take. Not the player he was five years ago, but will still put 20 points/game when given the opportunity.

Sund– please just tell us, the fans you are interested in these options. We need proven players here to put us over the top.

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Ive been saying all along that the Hawks had their chance to win a title this season and they blew it. The things that got the Hawks in trouble in the series, could have been fixed; and Ill always say that they could have been fixed. During this past offseason, Rick Sund blew a golden opportunity to fix the Hawks by bringing in or signing two free agents who were available for anyone in the league to sign. The Hawks felt they didnt need those guys and the window of opportunity for the Hawks has now officially closed. Those two guys are no longer available AND those particular needs are now going to be quite costly to fix and address. Two of the issues that were hurting the hawks this year; #1) not having a great point guard to run the team and #2) stagnant offense that is very predictable; either joes iso plays; jamals iso plays; josh smith launching ill-timed and ill-advised jump shots #3) blown leads late in games #4) players throwing up untimely shot because the 24-second clock was about to expire (bad clock management), etc. All of those needs could have been fixed had the hawks signed Rafer Alsten and Heidu Turkelu, formerly of the Orlando Magic after the end of last season. Both of those guys could have been signed for pennies on the dollar. Could Rafer Alsten run the Hawks? Yes he could. Rafer ran the Magic when Jamir Nelson was injured at the start of last year and filled in so well that Rafer felt he should be a starting point guard. Rafer led the Magic to the NBA finals and we should have signed him and brought him in to run our team, replacing Mike Bibby, moving Bibby to the bench. In addition, by bringing in Heidu Turkelu a proven commodity at forward, a skilled guy who can not only pass, shoot, score and rebound on a very high, all-star level, Heidu is skilled enough that you could have your entire offense run through him, the same way that the Cavs run their offense through LaBron James. So by bringing in Heidu and Rafer, the Hawks offense would never go stale, which means no blown leads late in games, no problem keeping the offense running smooth, getting the ball to the right open guy to deliver the shots on time, and having two fabulous players would could keep your offense fresh all the time. THE HAWKS PASSED ON THOSE GUYS THINKING THEY WERE A BETTER TEAM WITHOUT THEM. Last night the Hawks set a record for being the team that has gotten blown out the worst in NBA history over a 4-game sweep. WHAT A DISTINGUISHED HONOR TO HAVE. The team we had, with the additions of Rafer Alsten and Heidu Turkelu would have given the Hawks the GOLD TROPHY, even having Mike Woodsen at the helm. The Hawks would have gotten the Gold Ball despite having Mike Woodsen as their head coach. Its unfortunate that Im not running the Hawks because I know that if I had acquired those two guys, the Hawks would have won the title this year. Now the Hawks will have to blow up the team and start over from scratch. I wish we keep Joe Johnson, though, because in my mind hes the third best closer in the game behind Kobe and LaBron.

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I have serious questions about this team’s mental toughness and how they prepare. Hard to know how much of this is the coach and the comment from JJ makes me wonder if he is part of the problem. If you remember a couple years ago Childress complained about some issues in the locker room and you wonder if they have come home to roost. He may be more likely to return if JJ and Woody are gone. He could be part of the solution.

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Avery Johnson uses a controlled Nelly-ball style offense….I think he will be a good fit. He will also give this team the leader it desperately needs! He’s serious Defensively as Well!!!!

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You are right Larry. The Execs steal more like BILLIONS under the guise of giving themselves bonuses for making their bonus.

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if I was in charge I WOULD get Bryon Scott, only cause you could use that to sway Chris Paul from N.O.

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People cry about Josh, but Marvin is the biggest enigma I’ve ever seen. Is he “soft?” Maybe… Is he just Rasheed Wallace wondering aimlessly waiting to be pushed by the right coach in the right direction? Probably, people need to get off of where he was picked (like Jamal Anderson). What in the heck can we do with him is the question, and the answer is very important… Why? Because next summer Jamal Crawford and Horford contracts are up!

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I don’t know what on earth makes anyone think Josh Smith is worth a dime. Other than the fact that he’s a basketball moron and has no heart, he’s great though.

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Josh Childeress is not the answer for the Hawks. He was good when he was here five years ago but time has robbed him of his game. Hes good if the Hawks were in Greece or overseas, but in Atlanta Chills game has gotten incredibly cold and we dont need him anymore. We can find an adequate replacement for Chills. We need to trade Josh Smith because Smith will never be anyting more than a wannabe basketball player. Smith will never get any better than he is now, who has the game of a stubborn mule who will not listen to coaching. Joshs three highlights of the playoffs this year #1) repeatedly throw up ill-advised, untimely BRICKS; #2) dribble the ball down the court like a guard and promptly turn the ball over; and #3) SULK when you dont get your way and walk down the court, crawling at a snails pace, TEMPORARILY SHUTTING THINGS DOWN, completely indifferent to coaching, fans or anybody. JOSH SMITH SHOULD BE KICKED OFF THE TEAM.

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I can’t wait for Josh Smith to be traded so he can get with a REAL COACH and come back and CRUSH the Hawks. It will be UUUGGGGLLLLYYY!!!

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Rick Sund now is the time to hire Mike Woodson replacement. If you wait to long, all the good coaches will be taken. You have Bill Laimbeer, Avery Johnson, Byron Scott, Sam Mitchell and maybe Glen Doc Rivers, but before the Hawks make any player movement they need to hire a new head coach first!!!

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Great blog Jeff.

Just for lack of leadership alone, Johnson needs to go. Unfortunately, unless Sund is a miracle worker, I don’t envision a huge return, simply because GMs must leverage a sign and trade as a desperation-type move. Also, it’s not like the Hawks would be picking the team – Johnson has the leverage too.

We know the Knicks covet him. If they offered David Lee, a handful of picks that weren’t lottery protected, and a bag of doughnuts, I’d take it. At least we know we’d be getting an ‘effort’ guy!

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“I can’t wait for Josh Smith to be traded so he can get with a REAL COACH and come back and CRUSH the Hawks. It will be UUUGGGGLLLLYYY!!!”

Funny for two reasons: a REAL baller doesn’t need to blame poor coaching for being an lazy idiot, and it’s “Jon”, not “John.”

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FOR SOME REASON, Joe wants a max contract and we will never see the Joe Johnson who is the third best closer in the game until Joe inks his max contract. Joe will continue to HOLD BACK HIS SKILLS AND NOT PERFORM until him and his agent gouge some team for maximum money.

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I meant only one Smith, Josh, not Joe.

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Good article and very interesting and I agree with most of your comments.. But we really need a small forward that is a consistent scorer.. Marvin Williams is just not good.. He’s average at best. Teague is going to be great.. He’s raised in Indiana and has played against the best through his high school day’s to college to now.. He’s confident and if the right coach comes in.. He could be a future All Star.. Go Hawks and bring a coach in to get these guys to Play Hard all the time..

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@ Simpledawg
You only have Laimbeer (if you’re lucky) and Mitchell… Johnson is just craziness waiting to be unleashed again… It could be a new show on PBS: “Young Nellie Revisited!”

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I stopped reading when you said your dream world coach was Doc Rivers. Have any of you ever heard of a salary cap by the way ?

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@PlusSizeMode: Funny for two reasons….1. WTF does a “plus size model” know about “a real baller”? 2. Who the fck are you to tell me how to spell my name?

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We need to bring Thibodeau down here to prech DEFENSE! Also the Spirit Group needs to stop being cheap and get a free agent.

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Josh is the player. If he can’t act like a man and own up to his mistakes then he will get benched nuff’ said. If he wines about getting benched the he STILL won’t play……IDK whats so hard about that.

It’s PPL workin’ their azzes off tryna feed their families on minimum wage paychecks and you mean to tell me this fool Josh smith should be allowed to step foot on the court with the wrong atttitude???? Making 10mill a year???? F-outta here!!!!

He can sit his butt on the bench or get traded. He sould be thanking God for the position he’s in!!!!!

If I was his coach he’d learn real quick! MIKE WOODSON IS SOFTER THAN COTTONELL TISSUE PAPAER!!!!!!!

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I shall forgo, for the moment, the obligatory call for burning the city, plowing the fields and sowing them with salt, which is an old Atlanta tradition after yet another sports disaster [another old Atlanta tradition], Watching the Hawk’s season “augur in” [in Tom Wolfe's nice phrase] brings the franchise to a point where conclusive proof has been offered that fielding a team of undersized front line players with oversized guards is not a recipe for post season success.
In a perfect world, there would be a Chinese real estate billionaire looking to get his money offshore before things blow up in the Middle Kingdom, and he would be a big basketball fan. With a generous supply of his [or her] money, many of the excellent suggestions offered above might actually be possible to execute.
Accepting for a moment, that the world might not be perfect [nor conform to our expectations for it], the Hawks might accept that Georgia is a low middle tier market for professional basketball and that the basketball equivalent of “Moneyball” would be the most appropriate match for its reasonable expectations of revenue streams in the future. The ideal leader for this franchise would be a Billy Bean-like professional who focussed on undervalued productivity in the league, and assembled his team to be coached in a manner that maximized the talents of the players and exploited the weaknesses of the competition. The Utah Jazz are the closest NBA team to this organizational philosophy, and they have been competitive and watchable since the ’80s.
Watching the Hawks over the years has been like trying to catch the pea being palmed before it gets placed under the shell, or observing the deckchairs being re-arranged on the Titanic.

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Jeff–I made the Tony Parker suggestion 36 hours ago near the top of a previous column…just sayin’, my friend.

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How can a team give Mike Woodson a two year contract and he be held accountable. And give Marvin Williams a 4 year contract and Mike Bibby a 3 year contract?

While I don’t care for Woody as a coach for the very reason JS states above, his contract doesn’t kill this team. Marvin’s and Bibby’s 5 year contract last year and 3 year deal before this season (for the money) respectfully, straps this team down and restricts improving the team.

So Woody’s is just money, but doesn’t limit the team. I would say goodbye to Woody and thank him for improving the team… But i agree with Jeff, the players have tuned him out. Unfortunately, I think it reflects more poorly on the players than Woody.

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Webb, Nique, Ehlo, Blaylock, Steve Smith…guys with heart!!!

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I mean, it’s not like Woody was saying anything important in those huddles anyway. Josh has been hearing the same thing for six seasons “Defense, Rebound, Play harder, Switch, Iso-Joe!, Come on guys!, we gotta get a stop right now, Play!, we need some offense!”

No real strategy…..just weak general motivational statements. Josh KNEW woody didn’t have any answers, so did the rest of the squad. Face it people, Woodson reached his limit.

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@Jeff Schultz

Problem is, there is no center as good as Howard. You have to do what the Bobcats were able to do to him. Have a bunch of big bodies that can give you a couple of putbacks at least (the hawks bigs cannot do that), and hope for the best. Perimeter players have to stay on the shooters.

The only center that can somewhat guard howard one-on-one is Andrew Bynum, because of his size. I think Bynum can be had, we just have anything good to give up for except Josh Smith, who we should not trade

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That Bosh thing is pure speculation. I have never heard anything about him wanting to play in Atlanta again. He played at Tech for 1 year and nothing has indicated he has loyalty to our city. He is from Houston and I heard ESPN a few days ago talking about how the Rockets have all but locked it up with him

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The main thing the Hawks need, first step is to have HEART and a Competitive Nature. Larry Drew as head coach, good grief. Get Fratello back or Ty Corbin in Utah. Someone that won’t put up with Josh Smith watching Kiss Cam during a time out. As Barkley said last night, this team is as good as it is going to get and they need to break them up.

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There’s no one from the Mavericks worth having except Dirk and J.Kidd, which the would promptly veto a trade to the Hawks

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Mr.Schultz, I have a suggestion: Let’s trade the whole team to Orlando for the ATL native, Dwight Howard. Then we can sign some CBA players who are willing to listen to their coach.

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And hey Jeff: There’s more to basketball than reading the box scores and looking at the players’ heights on their ESPN stat pages.

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Jeff, LMAO…great comeback to DeepDiver

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Sign and trade JJ…get rid of Marvin Williams somehow, or lay him down on the bench, and get rid of Bibby.

problem solved

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Ted Striker agrees on every single point in this column. Each suggestion Jeff makes addresses either attitude, effort, or technique (or some combination). Thomas has done rubbed off on you.

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Josh Smith needs a real hard-a$$, spit in your face kind of coach…no doubt.

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Josh Smith for player-coach!

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Doc is retiring for now, he’s not looking to leave Boston to get another coaching job. He’s got yound kids that he wants to spend time with. His son is gonna be a Sr. PG at Indiana, & he also has a daughter playing a sport, he wants to be able to go watch them. But it would be great to get him, & would keep the fans interested.

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Jeff,

If you paid attention to the Hawks for more than 10 games per year, maybe your posts would reflect an ounce of basketball common sense. But since you won’t, let me give you some sound advice on how you could make sure that your posts don’t make a mockery of basketball writing.

Please, find me a professional scout or analyst who has watched Hawks game tape this year and who says that Josh Smith can play the SF. Or find me someone who thinks that the Hawks have the pieces to S&T for Bosh AFTER we S&T Joe. Or find me someone who has read the CBA who says that we have rights to trade in Josh Childress (we don’t – he’s a free agent, and we have NO rights in him except the right to match other NBA teams’ offers).

Or how about this – email your piece to Charley Rosen, Hubie Brown, or Sam Smith. Ask what they think of your half-assed attempt at basketball writing. At least pretend that you have the desire to learn 10% as much about the NBA as you know about the Braves and Bulldogs training camp machinations.

Spend time doing stuff like that instead of talking out of your ass. Then you won’t be a laughingstock on blogs where the fans live and breathe NBA basketball year-round, in contrast to people like you and Bradley who only skim the box scores and watch when the Hawks are on national TV.

Just because you know something about some sports doesn’t imbue you with knowledge of all others. Stop acting like it does.

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Jeff – thanks for responding. Easy to sit on your smarmy perch and rain conjecture and generalities.

The fact is, there is no feasible scenario in which Bosh or Dwayne Wade (whose signing here you and Bradley often speak on as if it were at all possible) can arrive in a Hawks uniform, unless they want to take substantially less money than the max (or if Miami or Toronto wants to do a SNT for JJ – ha!).

I am a fan of yours generally but your six or seven Hawks articles a year are so blatantly misinformed it drives me up the wall. Thanks again for taking the time.

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Jeff, I would advise you to do what other long-timers do on this blog….skip niremetals posts.

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@niremetal

First, find me a professional scout or analyst who has watched Hawks.

None of them really seemed to have watched Hawks games prior to these playoffs. Most work on stats, measurables, and rehashed catch phrases.

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Marvin W. a PF?? What are you smoking my friend?!???

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1.trade marvin,za za,a first round pick and the rights to j.chill for mr.bosh.2.keep joe.joe we can’t max you if you want to win big.that would give us teague,joe,yes josh at the 3(bosh can play some one the outside that helps josh from being a traditional 3)al at his correct postion(all star).and bosh.you now have a true running team with nice size everywhere you need it.i do think the team loves woody as a coach.he makes all kinds of bets with them at his expense(remember the afro and no eyebrows).players love a coach like that.everytime in the last three years(atleast five times)woody was as close as one game from being fired.the team always play its best ball.that being said.woody has taken them as far as he can.he has taught them how to win but he hasnt given them no offenssive idenity.what type of offense do we run anyway?i know we run iso.isn’t there suppose to be more.

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Yeah thats why im saying schultzy that if we do a sign and trade with dallas we could get haywood and butler from them. what do you think?

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@JSS ditto

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This needs one solid thing before any changes are made “Leadership”. Joe Smith was brought in for exactly that reason( he’s at tail end of a decent career) + the resigning of Bibby who was thought 2 also establish himself as a leader ,has failed. I have no earthly idea why we signed Marvin 2 any type of deal, he has been given 2 much time 2 prove his worth, I even think that Josh Childress contributed as much as Marvin has. This league is now being built on guys who play solid D at the 2 or 3 spot & still can hit a three if needed in key situations. Guys like Ariza,Barnes, & Artest have particular roles on their squads. Look at Rashard Lewis he’s not a true 4 but he plays hard &under control which make up for his shortfalls at the 4. Look I don’t know or care what management does with Woodson, they are 2 blame for Hawks present state, by not leaving yourself any type room to improve your team by trades or free agency you will not keep a loyal fan base.It’s a shame though, with all the youth on this squad, the Milwaukee Bucks future looks brighter than ours !!!!!

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The Hawks need to get D-Wade, Bosh and give max money to JJ, for his leadership. With those 3 and Josh, the Hawks can go deep in the playoffs in 2011! Hawk owners—pay up—it will take $20 mil plus per year for D-Wade, plus a ton of cash for JJ, Bosh and Smith will want a bunch more money to stay around too.

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Here are 3 players big men the Hawks should target in a sign and trade Boozer,Chris Bosh,and Dirk Norwinzki. I am hearing that Joe Johnson could be traded to Dallas.

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Dirk may also be available through a sign and trade. If you could turn Joe and Marvin into CP3 or Parker. Then, turn Smoove into Dirk. Well, now your talking contenders.

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No secrets about the Hawks issues and those issues start with the coach and end with Joe Johnson. Woody has earned his firing by because he could not adjust his style to fit his talent, but nobody can say that Woodson did not have something to do with the Hawks overall turn around. Good luck Woody and thank you for the time and effort, but it’s time to move on.

Joe Johnson is much like Woodson in the fact that he could not lift his game or the game of those around him in the playoffs. Joe you too gave Altanta winning basketball and for that I thank you, but as with Woody its time to move on.

I like I’m sure most in Atlanta love the idea of Chris Bosh and I hope the Hawks will attempt to make that happen. John Salmons is also an interesting idea and may fit this club? The big issue is getting a coach that demands respect and has an idea how to make this team see its fully potential. I like Jeff Van Gundy, Avery Johnson, Marc Jackson, or Byron Scott. The Hawks really need to make a play for a big name coach to get some street credit from the players.

Overall, I give the Hawks a B- grade this year and that could have easily been a B+ or even an A had they really played with heart in the playoffs.

Hordford: A
Crawford: B+
Smith: B
Johnson: B-
Bibby: C
Williams: D
ZaZa: D
Woodson: D

Couple of changes and some inside help with leadership qualities “Horford” the Hawks should be fine going forward.

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They need to gamble….it was a huge deal for us to let Hedu go and it looked real bad until we knew we had Vince and the giant bonus of Anderson in that deal. We took a chance years ago on a young Tracy McGrady who got no playing time in Toronto. Choosing Dwight over Okafor was a gamble….roll the dice.

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@Brad
Hmmm, Dirk is $20 million… Josh $10.8… How?

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I told you so…

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1. Get D-Wade —- pay whatever he wants–he’s worth it
2. Get Bosh
3. Fire woodson
4. Get rid of johnson and josh smith—two losers who have quit the team (they are just collecting paychecks)
5. Find a real point guard

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JSS.. Marvin and Smoove should work out pretty even $$ wise. Joe and Marvin would definately work. Then maybe Smoove straight up for CP3 or Parker.

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Steve Belkins was going to give Billy Knight additional draft picks to work with… No thanks!!!

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I cant understand the people wanting to trade Josh. Yes his gets upset at times on the floor. But its mostly when he is helping on defense and his team mates dont rotate to cover his man. It makes him like bad most of the time. Joe does need to go. Sign and trade or straight up letting him sign with another team. Take that money ang get a center and hopefully through trades/signings bring in a PG(s) and SG(s). As for the coach…Woody has done all he is can do for this team. People, This team is not far from completing for a conference title over the next few years. Just a few changes is all thats needed. It will happen!

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AJC HELP WANTED —– EMPLOYER – The Atlanta Hawks (positions must be filed before the start of next season)

NEEDED – A New Coach (NBA experience preferred)
– A New Center (a stud that clog the lane and be successful in the paint)
– A European Shooting Guard (must be able to consistently hit 3s…..
country of origin….optional….name doesn’t necessarily have to fit on
the back of a jersey)

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[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Mohammad Ridwan. Mohammad Ridwan said: Fixing the Hawks: fire Woodson, trade Joe, keep Josh http://bit.ly/aLdLHZ [...]

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The team looks like it has run it course. We will probably wait too long to do anything of significance and we will probably be hoping for the 8th seed in 2 years….

1. We need to trade Joe (he dribbles more than anyone in the league).
2. We need Josh to take a maturity class.
3. We need Marvin to take a basketball class.
4. We need Bibby to take a class on how to turn the clock back to 2004.
5. We need ZaZa to gain 30 pounds and become a dominate force in the middle.
6. We need Teague to become Chris Paul.
7. We need Childress to want to play for Atlanta.
8. We need someone stupid enough to give us something awesome in return for Joe.
9. We need Hawks ownership to pony up some big bucks and get a decent coach in here.
10. We need Horford to transfer his energy to the other 12 guys on this team.

Bonus
11. Crawford needs to have a better season in 2011 than he did in 2010 for the Hawks to be in contention.

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Enter your comments here

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make sky high offers for Lebron, Kobe and D-Wade, the Hawks will reach the NBA finals! Bank on it!!!

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1) Let Woody Go . . . OK. But if the ASG goes the cheap route, and simply hands over the reigns to Drew, this fan base WILL NOT BE HAPPY. They want a big name coach. But you’re right. I could easily them simply hiring Drew at 4 yrs – 8.5 million

2) Trade Joe Johnson . . and replace him with John Salmons? OK. Decent player. Nowhere near a replacement for JJ though. In this scenario, whomever is the PG must play well right out of the gate. Otherwise, the new coach is going to be forced to go with a Crawford – Salmons backcourt. A backcourt that consists of two shooting guards that look to shoot first and not pass to our developing young forwards. And a backcourt that would be weaker defensively. But we have to get SOMETHING I guess . . . so OK.

3) Don’t trade Josh Smith . . . OK. His potential is definitely not one to be given up on. He’s still very young. He’s the face of the Hawks. He’s also the box office attraction. But his tweener status is part of the problem with this team. The team is “out of balance”, due to the lack of a true center and lack of a true leader-type PG. Smoove needs to play PF to maximize his effectiveness in the NBA. Putting him at SF reduces his impact on a game tremendously, because you take him away from the basket on both ends of the floor. If you sent him to the bench ( to balance out the team if we acquired a center ), but still got him his minutes, who knows how he’d respond to that.

4) Acquire a center ( or Chris Bosh ) . . . now we’re getting into the meat and potatoes of the issue. The only way you can do either of these things, is via a sign and trade. Going into next year, the only chips we have that people would possibly want, is to trade Jamal Crawford or Josh Smith. You’ve already traded JJ for Salmons, so these are the only chips left.

No one wants Marvin, especially with his long contract. Bibby still has 2 years on his deal, as well as Zaza, so no one wants them either, unless in a package deal involving one of our core. So if you’re Toronto, you’re trying to do the exact thing that Atlanta is trying to do in a JJ sign and trade. And when you’re talking about a sign and trade for Bosh, you’re also talking about trading a high salary core player ( Jamal or Josh ), plus a filler to make the numbers work ( like a Zaza or a Bibby ). You just don’t acquire a player like Bosh out of thin air, especially if you’re a team with no cap room, unless you give up something significant.

As for the acquisition of a center, that situation has turned ugly. Jermaine O’Neal is garbage, but would still be better than any backup center on the squad. But he’s garbage. Mement Okur re-upped with Utah, and is hurt. Camby ( the guy we could’ve desperately used ) re-upped with Portland. Shaq will be available, but will probably retire before he comes to ATL. Big Z re-upped with Cleveland. Tyson Chandler probably won’t exercise his player option to become a free agent. So our hope for a center will be some journeyman bench center, more than likely.

5) Bench Mike Bibby . . . ah yes. Bench Bibby to play the “savior” Jeff Teague. We pretty much have no choice in the matter now. Bibby has fallen off significantly. But if Teague is our only option at PG . . we . . are . . screwed.

We’re still going to have to either draft another PG, or sign one via free agency, just for insurance purposes for BOTH Bibby and Teague. I sincerely hope Teague proves me wrong, but with his inability to shoot the ball or finish in traffic, I seriously have doubts on whether this guy can even be better than Earl Watson. ( Earl is a UFA this season by the way ).

6) Get Tougher . . which takes us back to #3. The guy whose toughness is questioned frequently ( both physically and mentally ), is Josh Smith. So if the new coach can make him tough, then everything will be all good. If he can’t, this team will still have the same problems that plague them.

And don’t get it twisted about “toughness”. The Bucks had to get rid of A LOT of players, in order for them to get “tougher”. Remember, this was a team that had Charlie Villanueva, one of the softest, non defense playing players ever, getting major minutes. Michael Redd wasn’t “tough”. Richard Jefferson wasn’t “tough”. Ramon Sessions wasn’t “tough” ( although he had a pretty good year in 08 – 09 )

The truth is that the Bucks pretty much turned over their ENTIRE ROSTER, in order to get rid of those high non-productive contracts. In turn, Skiles brought in the guys that would make this squad “tougher”.

- drafted Brandon Jennings
- Kurt Thomas
- John Salmons
- Jerry Stackhouse
- Ersan Ilyasova

And in turn, those moves helped make Andrew Bogut a lot tougher than he’s ever been in his career. So the Bucks toughness didn’t come about with the same players that were heartless during the 08 – 09 season. No . . Skiles had to bring in those tough guys, both physically and mentally, in order for the Bucks to be the type of squad he wanted.

The same will reign true for the Hawks. If you want the squad to get tougher, you’re going to have to bring in tough players and maybe get rid of a few who aren’t tough. Bringing in a guy like Salmons may not be enough. You may have to bring in multiple “tough guys”. Bosh sure isn’t a “tough guy”.

***************************

Your plan is workable. A “stop gap” to see if our frontline can step their games up and become better players. But I believe the Hawks will take a step back in your lineup, mainly due to the fact that we’d still have the same weaknesses in the same areas as a team. I say that’s a 42 – 47 win squad. Good enough to make the playoffs as a 5 – 7 seed, but nowhere near being a viable threat to get to the next level. Defense would still be a MAJOR ISSUE with that team. And Crawford and Bosh will be taking most of the shots.

*********************************

Schultz’s Atlanta Hawks

PG – Teague
G – Salmons
F – Smoove ( at SF )
F – Bosh ( impossible without a sign and trade of either Smoove or Crawford )
C – Horford

Bench

G – Crawford
G – Bibby
F – Marvin
F – Evans
* 1st round pick
* 2nd round pick
* free agent center acquisition

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niremetal….if you live and breath NBA basketball 24/7 I think that is great for you because you enjoy it. You are a dying breed nonetheless. Most casual fans, those who might attend 3-5 games a year have been lost forever. Not just in Atl but in many markets. For most of us it is just not much fun to watch anymore. I am sorry because I used to be a hugh fan.

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Sign and Trade Joe Johnson to New Jersey for Devin Harris and Brooke Lopez

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I agree the Coach has to go, Sorry Woody. J. Smoove stays, Jamal Crawford stays, Marvin bench him or trade him, he hasnt lived up to the hype being drafted where he was drafted. Avery Johnson can lead and is all about defense. Jeff Van Gundy maybe he will fit maybe not. We need a Coach who will command his players attention all year long. I’d rather watch fishing than the Hawks next year if Johnson stays or Woodson, or Crawford leaves, honestly.

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Final answer. Get rid of JOE and WOODY. And some of the comments being posted are just straight dreams. We will not be getting Wade or James. We won’t be getting Iverson. So lets put an end to all that rubbish. Hire Avery Johnson before the draft so he can have input of the make up of the team. And once again Get rid of JOE and WOODY. While you are at it make sure you pay Crawford his worth. And for the record a true Hawks fan would have said we lost not the Hawks lost.

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You are so on point with the intangibles! That’s goes for teams across the board but definitely a good point on the Hawks… To me the Hawks over acheived this year. They have several people playing out of position with sub-par coaching. Joe Johnson isn’t going to be happy hear after making that statement. Woodson isn’t head coach material. So there has to be some changes on the floor and the bench! Should be interesting to see what moves are made! Chris Bosh? Hmm, I don’t think we need 2 power forwards. We must think bigger!

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Van Gundy is the right choice. But, it sounds like you don’t have any idea what this team is all about. That’s tough after a 50+ win season to want to get rid of everyone. But, Van GUndy will instill a defensive mindset and never lose by 40.

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Trade Josh Smith for a player with a brain.

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I think Charles Barkley said it best during the post game show on TNT… This particular group of players have peaked as a unit. They’ll be no better then a 52-win team and 2nd round playoff exit. That’s fine, I can accept that. We need to make changes to get better, but I’m a proud Hawks fan and the city should be proud we’ve maximized the talent we have in the last 5 years. It’s time to change though and build a team that can win a championship. Congratulations to Coach Woodson and Joe Johnson, as they started with nothing and turned our franchise into winners once again. Now we need to take the next step and build a championship caliber team

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Why can’t the Hawks get a premier star player ? We once had Dominique Wilkins. Why wouldn’t Bosh,Stoudamire,Wade,or anyone else not want to come to Atlanta and play alongside Horford and J.Smith ? Use J.J.’s money to sign either a point guard or center. Woody is a memory I hope.

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Please lord no. NOT Chris Bosh. Stay far away from him.

He is another Sharif Abdur Rahim (sp? .. just go with SAR for short), maybe a fraction better, bit a small one. I know, all you Tech fans will disagree, but a few years ago everyone loved us getting SAR and he turned out to be a major flop. Bosh is VERY similar. He is a very good complimentary player (just like Joe Johnson whom everyone wants to leave town). He is not the ANSWER, and I will be willing to be that he never plays for a championship team because he will soak up too much money and too many shots for whatever team he plays for to be able to build a strong team around him.

Just say no to Chris Bosh. I would much rather give a younger Marvin Williams the opportunity to become the man on offense without Joe Johnson and Mike Woodson blocking his growth.

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Any reason why RANDOLPH MORRIS can’t get any playing time??? Dude was a BEAST, every year he played for UK. Just consider the talent they let slip away…A.C. Law, Salim Stoudamire, etc., & for what…the likes of Bibby & Marvin Williams? You GOTTA be kiddin me. Tired of seeing ZaZa Pachulia out there too, with his Rocky Balboa lookin self. He has NO GAME either. Just like the 2010 Braves (minus Heyward + a select few), they just plain ole SUCK.

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Acie Law is lucky to still be in the NBA, he has absolutely no self motivation to get better. Salim, what do they say, if you don’t have anything good to say… Randolph Morris was a college star, enough said…

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Ok ppl here is the deal..I was born in Atl. Have been a fan of Atl sports for 30+ years. Have you all noticed that the teams in Atl wait till you can get nothing for a player, then want to release them. Here we go with the Hawks. Its time to get rid of Joe… Bibby..Marvin.and probably Josh while we can get a good return. And bring motivated team players who want to win. Instead of just getting a paycheck. Josh never got the college experience to hone his game..he is straight out of high school…he dont know any better.

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Jeff you’re correct about everything except keeping Josh Smith. The Hawks have too many “projects”…Smith, Williams…they need players. Let another team try to coddle a complete game from these bums, especially when there is no financial incentive.

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Blow it up, simple and plain, plus the only way it will really work in the long run

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Bob Weiss

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[...] Fixing the Hawks: fire Woodson, trade Joe, keep Josh Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) – May 11th – 09:32 [...]

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Eric Daniels- Avery Johnson? We are talking about a Hawks management team who dont want to spend money! I am sure they dont want to spend more than 2mil on a coach. The ownership group does not show the motivation to win a championship….POINT…BLANK…PERIOD!!!

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It’s easy

Woody stay or Fire doesn’t matter, If he goes get Laimbeer, Mark Jackson, or Patrick Ewing. You absolutely need young blood to intrigue the fanbase. I like the Tom Thibodeau idea but he has never played in NBA and you think a team full of guys who don’t listen are gonna listen to a guy who they can always push aside by saying he has never played in this situation is gonna work?

1. Sign Rudy Gay to a contract similar to Josh and Granger, you will have the money. Best case scenario Memphis takes Marvin and a future 1st round pick in a sign and trade.

2. Resign Joe Johnson. Yes it can be done because the rule states you can go over salary to re-sign your own free agent. On the other hand, if he wants more than 5 yr 75 mill, let him walk, Carmelo makes 5 yr 80 and Joe is not Carmelo.

2B. If Joe wants more than 5yr 75 mil, let him walk free unless you can get Devin Harris and a piece or maybe Rudy Gay and Conley for Joe and Teague or Joe and 1st round pick, but you must get a guy that could sniff or has already been a superstar in sign and trade situation or just let him walk.

3. Must draft really good and with a plan in place. For instance, you should already have under the table deals done with Joe before July 1st, so that you will know which way to go in draft. The 2nd round is important and treat it that way, I looked it up 15 of the 30 2nd round players taken last year made rosters. The great thing about 2nd round is you can offer them what salary you like and I dont think contracts are guaranteed.

4. Lastly, if we get Gay and Johnson resigns that will mean that we need to cut some payroll. So, management must earn there keeps in making shrewd moves like trading Jamal’s expiring $10.8 contract or ridding themselves of Zaza and Marvin for basically nothing in return.

5. Management must stop putting out a obviously flawed product then getting mad or giving away tickets when people dont show.

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truthspitter, I’m intrigued by your lineup

Jeff Teague
JJ
Rudy Gy
Smoove
Horford

Who do you think would be good coach for this group?

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Bibby and Marv are good guys and ppl you want on your team. But both are too inconsistent and make too much for what they do, or should I say don’t do! Someway, we have to get rid of one or both of them to free up some money.

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dtc has the most logic point….

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Mystikal: I have no idea, I like the possibility of Laimbeer but that does not look like his type of team, neither does it look like a Ewing team, that’s a newblood coaches team, such as Mark Jackson, or maybe a PG like Avery, Coach Cal would be good for that team, but he makes more at Kentucky then we would pay. Maybe even a guy like Mark Price if he wouldn’t to jump into it full fledge or if Mike Dantonio gets booted he would be good for that team.

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Fire Woody. Resign and trade Joe. Keep Josh. Sounds like a plan to me. For those who are suggesting trading Josh at this point I suggest to you that he is a player that ATL needs defensively. Keep him. If he can’t adjust to a new coach then there is time to trade him before real damage could be done. Oh, yes, get rid of Marvin. He just isn’t consistent enough to be a difference maker. If keeping Marvin then let him come off the bench only.

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These Blog cats on these comments dont know what there talking bout.Josh was a 3 when he came in the lead.And anybody can improve there shot.Where are the Die-Hard Fans?Getting rid of Joe is another thing because he is selfish.But look at offense and defense wise and joe is the best thang we got.These fans don’t know what they want.If we can get a Coach to use the hawks as there strong points and run the floor josh wouldnt have to shoot.Yall are crazy.Josh is young and has a lot of potential.He wants to wen bad and they don’t listen to Woody because he talks crazy.If we get a team we wouldnt have to worry bout a superstar.Like the Pistons wen they were good.That was a team not about one person.GET AVERY JOHNSON

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Aren’t we just great at fixing what is wrong. What don’t we all apply for Sunds job. Maybe between us we could really screw everything up.

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What the Hawks need is a proven coach, BYRON SCOTT, then we need to get CHRIS BOSH, and start developing Jeff Teague to be the point guard he was at Wake Forrest, or (better option) go get COLLISON from New Orleans, this is how we can keep up with the rest of the league and P.S. Somebody go get Josh Childress from Greece we need him back desperatley. Thats the gameplan, somebody forward this to Sund.

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WJ yep. It will never be the exact same. But thats the general idea. There are A ton of GOOD UFA coming up next year. Amare is the main target. Will Denver part with Mr.Big Shot?? the play of Ty Lawson says yes. Josh Marvin Zsa Zsa and Bibby are the outgoing targets. Get those two then maybe just maybe you can lure a few of the others at bargain prices for a chance to win and win another Ring. Oh yea somebody got spend some money!! Lux tax baby. But if you are putting an Allstar lineup on the floor guess what…. seats are filled money is made and maybe just maybe a RING is WON!!! And after the worst BEAT Down in Playoff history, Yeah you need something drastic.

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You clowns are crazy, I would not trade Josh. I repeat I would not trade Josh S. You guys must not have seen this kid play all season. First of all the kid can score consistently, against bigger guys inside Josh is quicker, stronger, and can jump over most bigs except Dwight H. Josh is an excellent passer from in the post and outside. Many of Horford’s easy baskets are because of him. At times and I watched 95% of their games this season Josh is a quadruple threat, with scoring, assists, blocks, rebounds, and even steals. The problem is like any young talent he got frustrated in the playoffs. Josh all season has had to cover defensively for Bibby, Crawford, and J.J. lack of defensive effort on the perimeter. When your being killed inside and being told to stay at home it is hard to get blocked shots and when your killing yourself on defense how hard are you going to play with prima donnas jacking up shots and playing no defense and not passing the ball. Under the right coaching Josh will be fine and will probably be better. I agree with Schultz sign and trade joe for a quality player – J. Salmons. Sign Brendan Haywood to play center and Luke Ridnour to mentor J. Teague and run play up and down basketball. Please get rid of M. Bibby trade him for 4 lug nuts and a cup of coffee. Quit hating on Josh Smith you playoff arm chair coaches!!! He is an emotional player but not a bad guy or player!!! Just needs a good coach!!!!

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Listenup!!!,

Thats a nice fantasy, but what so many posters fail to realize is, the Hawks have no cap room to sign any of the major players.

And whats up with all these crazy sign and trade scenarios people are coming up with. Why would a team who has cap space and is willing to sign Joe Johnson want to give you one of their important pieces? Sure they would part with a draft pick or a role player, like the Hawks did when they sign Joe from Phoenix, but thats about it.

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Jeff;

Thought your mention of Larry Drew was an interesting one…definitely see your points in his favor. However, my sense is moving in that direction breeds trouble, especially with the age and psyche of this group. The implosion over the last three-four weeks suggests there may be deeper problems regarding chemistry than just x’s and o’s. In fact,many of us already have alluded to our concerns relative to leadership (or lack thereof) throughout the Hawks entire organization. Bringing in an unproven commodity may look good on the balance sheet but I can see it being a real problem down the line given the youth and obvious quirks within the Hawks locker room.

For these same reasons, it seems a coach who wields a strong hand, has a pedigree beyond reproach and a history of winning would be ideal. Certainly, rapport with the players is an important consideration. In this scenario, Avery Johnson seems like the best choice.

Before any of this can happen, it seems ASG has to have a clear vision as to what they’re ultimately trying to accomplish. Are their goals—both player and coach-wise—short or longer-term (especially if JJ is a non-factor next year)? Coaching costs/needs will certainly play into this.

While I know you couldn’t cover everything, there was little reference to basketball IQ in any of your player scenarios. Except for Horford, this is an area where the team is SORELY lacking. Even with the right coach, tipping the delicate balance here the wrong way could be a minefield. Although he’s a veteran and plays hard, one could argue John Salmons leaves a lot to be desired in this area (shot selection, crunch-time decisions).

Lots of room for discussions among your suggestions…will be interesting!

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Hopefully, these worthless hawks and thrashers teams leave town soon—they are an embarrassment—go spew this trash in some other city with a bunch of chumps willing to pay for this “entertainment.” Good riddance!

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Chris Bosh is a force on offense. He won’t disappear in the playoffs like JJ did. I think you’ve got to sign a good free agent to get a second good free agent to sign. JJ & Woodson need to go period. Who wants any player like JJ on their team that takes shots at fans for HIS sorry ass play ? What does he expect home fans to do when he goes 3 for 15 shooting ? Applaud ?

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[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Brandon the Barber. Brandon the Barber said: How to fix my beloved #Hawks: http://bit.ly/aroNbX [...]

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Exit: Woodson, Bibby, Mo Evans

Enter: Avery Johnson, Travis Outlaw, Brendan Heywood, and A.J Price (gotta snatch him from Indy, next Mo Williams for sure)

Draft: Gordon Heyward or Gani Lawal

Re-Sign: Joe Johsnon

GET ER’ DONE SUND!

Lineup/depth chart (15 players)

Jeff Teague>>>>A.J Price
Joe Johnson>>>Jamal Crawford
Gordon Heyward>>>Travis Outlaw, Marvin Williams, Mario West
Josh Smith>>>>>Zaza/Travis Outlaw/Randolph Morris
Al Horford>>>>>Brendan Heywood/Jason Collins

We can win a title with this (Coupled with the right coach). Some of you are making too many changes to a 53 win squad. Half of it is nonsense/impossible moves. Be realistic please. PG was a huge problem. With Price and Teague you get twp big PG’s Teague at 6′2 and Price at 6′3 and poth play solid D and can stay in front of their man. With a new coach we wont have to worry about that stupid switching anymore. Gordon Heyward gets the start because he’s a beast pure shooter and More athletic/coordinated than Marvin. He will space the floor for us. Teague needs to dominate he ball and keep ito ut of JJ’s hands. He just moves too slow (it’s so annoying, but this might be b/c of
Woodson) he just needs to catch and finish quickly. I see Teague turning into a combination of Tony Parker and Rajon Rondo (somwhere in between).

Price is an exellent shooter who can play off the ball with the second unit since Jamal is at his best with it in his hands. Price is a good Ball handler as well. All of the Wings will be neede in the future (i’m assuming LeBron will stay in the East). We also have size up front with Heywood and others.

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Mikey G just put the Nails in the coffin on Woody according to interview with MC. I think Woody ends up in Carolina or Philly. I also think the Hawks miss the playoffs next year too. Just get ready to go backwards, this dude actually said Teague Collins and Joe Smith should have played more in this series, Yeah that would have changed things…. Clueless

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Another good addition for the Hawks would be Tayshaun Prince. Matter of fact trade JJ AND Josh to the Pistons for Prince and their 1st round pick. IF the Pistons win the lottery, trade the aforementioned AND Marvin for Prince and John Wall. PLEASE SIGN CHRIS BOSH!! PLEASE CALL THE DOC!!

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Fire everyone even slightly associated with the Hawks. This isn’t a team, it’s an undisciplined bunch of lazy loafers collecting obscenely huge paychecks.

Then run them out of town on a rail.

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I feel bad for Woodson. He has actually done a great job with the Hawks. He elevated them from a lottery team to a playoff team. I think this team needs a change in personnel more than it needs a change in coaching. This team has reached its ceiling. The Hawks in their current form will only manage to make the playoffs but never seriously contend for anything.

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We need a new coach, get rid of Josh smith, he’s a loser.Always has been ,always will be.

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D-WADE is the answer, the missing piece! It will cost a ton of cash, but D-Wade is the key. The Hawks need to break the bank and pay D whatever he wants, even $25 mil per year! Get D and bosh and it’s lights out baby!!!!!

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Josh smith is the face of the franchise and 24, going no where. Joe johnson is well past his prime and his asking price is to high for a 2 option.

It’s no point giving all that money to a second tier guy when you still need to acquire a true star to compliment him with yet another maximum pay scale.

We actually tried building around Joe back in 05 and it hasn’t quite worked out, now we have to compliment our young/dynamic front line excluding williams!!!!!

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I wish half of you people had a clue! Josh Smith is a cancer and no matter what team he is on his team will fail if he is a center piece. Also, what is the deal with Childress? He was at best an average player. Marvin is not worthy of a 3 pick but, he is a solid player. He doesn’t have plays ran for him or does he get the attempts that others get. Let’s package Smith and get a sign and trade with Johnson and get us a Center and a true point. This team is only a couple of players away from being a contender. But, listening to half of you people talk about bringing back Chillz and throwing Marvin away have really missed the boat. But, the biggest thing is getting rid of Josh Smith!!!! He is a cancer and all you will do is be drawn to being lazy and sorry because that is the kind of player he is.

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TaD,

You’re spot on with what i was gonna say

with a starting line up of:

PG: Chris Paul
SG: Crawford
SF: Marvin
PF: Horford
C: Amare Stoudamire

that would get us to the ECF at the very least.

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Jeff,

Why not try a sign and trade with Charlotte and get Captain jack and Tyson Chandler? That one with johnson

Thhen trade Marvin, Bibby, draft picks, and money for Bosh?

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This is the exactly what the hawks should do this offseason. Its a shame that an NBA coaach cant establish a half- court offense. I Work at Philips Arena an i’ve been preaching this exact samething to the fans all season long: get rid of joe johnson cuz he has no leadership skills an he buckles under preassure, get a ligit 7 ft. center, and finally fire Mike Woodson an hire sombody that the players respect an listen to.

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ricky rubio… i bet t’wolves trade him now since they have 21348127983412341234 young pgs

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