Wren’s problem: He hasn’t earned benefit of doubt
Here's Troy Glaus looking at a called third strike Wednesday night. He's hitting .203. So much for that experiment.
Frank Wren spent Wednesday at a high school game, coughing from pollen that triggers his allergies. That night, the Braves lost their eighth straight game in St. Louis, coughing from their apparent allergy — the other team.
They can’t hit long. They can’t hit short. Some nights they can’t field. Some nights they forget to tag up. Usually, they can pitch pretty well, although St. Louis hung 10 on them Thursday and there are some nights when Derek Lowe looks like he’s allergic to mounds.
When the Braves broke spring training, they looked like a possible playoff team. Now they have the second-worst record in baseball.
What is Wren doing about it? Nothing. Not trading. Not panicking. Not even twitching. Just waiting for the rain to wash away the pollen.
He will tell you the Braves have the advantage of time. But don’t even baseball time frames get shortened when a team has its longest losing steak since 2006 (the same year this non-playoff string began)?
“You can go from last place to first place pretty quickly this time of year,” he said. “I know everybody is jumping off the ship now. But this is like if the Falcons had played two games. We’ve only played one-eighth of the season.”
The math is accurate. But in the NFL, nobody asks, “When is the last time we lost two in a row?” When losing streaks are being researched, there’s a problem.
The Braves lost Thursday, 10-4. That makes nine straight. One more and marketing is going to have to start including lobster with the all-you-can-eat seats.
Their record is 8-14. They’ve been outscored 16-4 in the last two days. Total offense in the nine losses: 17 runs (including three shutouts).
Wren is preaching patience. If he is having a hard time finding support, it’s because that philosophy carries more weight when the preacher has a resume. The Braves have missed the playoffs four straight seasons. Wren is 0 for 3 since taking over. When the team hit a bump during John Schuerholz’ regime, it was easy to remain calm. Wren hasn’t earned the benefit of the doubt.
The leadoff spot figured to be a problem. It is. Chipper Jones’ health and production figured to be questions. They are. Troy Glaus figured to be a risk. Confirmation received. Nate McLouth, Melky Cabrera – it doesn’t end.
It was easy during the 10-game losing streak in 2006. You could look into the bullpen and say, “Their fault.”
Most of Bobby Cox's problems haven't been on the mound (Derek Lowe notwithstanding).
Now, the problems are everywhere. Every day is a new Bobby Cox lineup. Wednesday included six starters hitting .203 or less. Thursday’s lineup opened with Cabrera and Yunel Escobar, both hitting .197. (The blip is Martin Prado. He has no allergies.)
Wren said he is free to make a trade. He said, “We have some flexibility in our payroll,” though he didn’t quantify that.
“The other factor [in a trade] is how it affects us talent-wise. We have a farm system that we’re carefully stocking. We don’t want to do something that will lessen our ability to compete long term.”
It’s at this point that I mention the name: Mark Teixeira. In 2007, the Braves dealt a boatload of prospects to Texas for Teixeira. They hoped he would turn them into a World Series team. He didn’t. The thought occurs that memories of that deal would dissuade the Braves from making a significant prospects-for-All-Star trade again. (San Diego’s Adrian Gonzalez comes to mind.) But Wren said no.
“The Teixeira trade hasn’t impacted us at all,” he said. “If you look at the players we gave up, I’m not sure it’s had any effect on the major league club. We had Escobar ahead of [Elvis] Andrus at shortstop, we had [Brian] McCann ahead of [Jarrod] Saltalamacchia at catcher, the other guys wouldn’t have made our club. Neftali Feliz would be in our bullpen.”
So you wouldn’t be gun shy?
“No, not at all. We’ll make a trade if we feel it helps us.” But he added he won’t deal a prospect whom he feels can be part of the Braves’ future. That list presumably begins with Freddie Freeman.
It’s the end of April. General managers “tend to look at the quarter-poll,” Wren said. “Mid-May is when you start to get a sense where your club is. Really, June 1 is when you start making decisions.”
The math could work out. But if 8-14 turns into 16-28, just remember how early the cough started.
♦
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548 comments Add your comment
Fire Frank Wren
April 29th, 2010
2:10 pm
Agreed. Pendleton should go, too. All the Braves’ good assistant coaches went elsewhere. Ned Yost went to Milwaukee. Fredi Gonzalez went to Florida. Now we have TP, Snitker, and the bunch. Let’s just clean house except for Eddie Perez, who may make a fine Manager one day.
Kenny J
April 29th, 2010
2:12 pm
Not sure what to say about Wren because I don’t have a strong criticism of this roster, in fact overall I think it’s pretty good. But I sure have hopped on the No-No Pendleton bandwagon. Our blogs don’t mean much other than to throw out amateur lob shots for fun, but these guys are all all proven major league hitters, including enough power across the board to score plenty of runs. But they suck at the plate and have for a few years under TP. If I were Wren that’s the move I’d make. Get rid of Pendleton before the season is lost altogether and hire a hitting coach who can help these guys thrive again. You can’t help but notice Kelly’s NL leading HRs as a blatant recent example of this obvious truth.
J-MAN
April 29th, 2010
2:13 pm
We need to blow this team up
Mr. Blank CEO of the atlanta's only team that doesnt suck
April 29th, 2010
2:14 pm
Melky is a below average player who benifited from new yankee stadium. Glaus is old and only played ten games or so.
Chipper is washed up injured cant hit or field looks like he lost his love of the game. JHEY is only 20 folks. KK should of been gone in the offseason. Lowe has maybe a 2-3 years left. yunel is a premadona and has horriable hair. so its the Atlanta Prado’s. get help bye glaus, bye melky, bye kk, bye wren, tp is just that. time to rebuild around our future stars mccain, unil,hanson, prado, Jhey,and freddie . get older players worth a damn like Dunn or Die there cheap not glaus. i should run all atlanta sports teams even the chokeanta Hawks.
Hillbilly Deluxe
April 29th, 2010
2:18 pm
What does the team ownership have to do with it other than payroll?
Scouting and player development.
the braves suck my nuts
April 29th, 2010
2:19 pm
McCann needs to go? I don’t know what you’re smoking? Big-mac? Really?
Tmac
April 29th, 2010
2:19 pm
OMG, i just heard on the radio the trade the again for JD Drew.
SP Wainwright (stud)
SP Jason Marqui (decent starter)
RP Ray (left handed specialist)
for JD Drew (145 games)
Wow! That one didn’t work out to good, huh?
the braves suck my nuts
April 29th, 2010
2:20 pm
as much as i demise the braves big-mac is too special to be let go. He’s a once in a decade talent!
Tmac
April 29th, 2010
2:21 pm
sorry
RP Ray King (left handed specialist)
ChippersLoveChild
April 29th, 2010
2:29 pm
It’s very easy to play arm chair GM, but if they hadn’t made the Texiera deal and had low salaries all around the team with Salty, Andrus, Escobar, Prado, Heyward, etc.. they might have had the money to sign a guy like Matt Holliday for the OF.
ChippersLoveChild
April 29th, 2010
2:30 pm
To be fair the Braves got Eli Marrero too… not saying much, but he was productive here at times… and Marquis is only a decent starter because he normally benefits from lots of run support… not doing so hot this year in Washington.
Brownie
April 29th, 2010
2:32 pm
Lots a Wren-bashing going on here, but except for the Glaus decision, he hasn’t really screwed up too badly considering 2 things: he is still cleaning up many of the messes Schuerholz left him, AND Liberty Media has TIGHT reins on the spending (it was noted earlier the Braves are near the bottom on national league payrolls).
But, let’s get past the bashing and seriously look at what the Braves are now, and what should be done. They need to finally acknowledge what should have been stated 3-4 years ago: they are rebuilding.
To all of you who are screaming for trades (A Gonzo, J Dye, Sheffield…), get a grip. Do any of you seriously think anyone one of these overpriced/impossible to resign/past their prime players are gonna carry the Braves to the playoffs??? We can NOT repeat the Texeira mistake. Their farm system has some very good players, and we need to accept what 2010 is: a losing season.
They are 8-13 and sinking. To make the playoffs, they’ll have to win ~ 90 games, which means they’d have to go 82-59 the rest of the way….does anyone see ANY evidence they have what it takes to pull that off? NO!
The other thing regarding a trade: nobody is going to trade a valuable player until the trade deadline in over 2 months from now. By that time, IF the Braves have clawed their way into the playoff discussion, they very likely will be good enough to make it without trading away their future, and it would be unwise to trade signifcant talent on the CHANCE that it might get them over the hump (again, see the Tex trade).
Right now, considering that JJ, Heyward, Prado and McCann are untouchable, the only tradeable assets the Braves have are Hudson and Escobar. Regarding Yunel, he is a world class talent with a 10 cent head. He appears to have NO friends on this team, and will only talk to Chino Cadahia (bench coach). When Bobby retires at season’s end, Chino will be out the door as well, and Esco will have nobody here to help him focus. The Braves can’t wait until Esco reaches arbitration and will command larger money to play with no focus….they need to trade him by the trade deadline. They should get real value in return.
Finally, time for Chipper to retire. Hire him as hitting coach (great eye, talent, knows our players, and knows the opposing pitchers, etc.) to work out the remainder of his contract. If the new manager doesn’t keep Roger McDowell (who should remain), then hire Smoltz as pitching coach.
J Schafer should be ready to go by the end of the year, bring him and Freeman up. Melky, Nate, Glaus – bye bye.
Real UT
April 29th, 2010
2:36 pm
Atta baby Omar
Real UT
April 29th, 2010
2:41 pm
It will be interesting to see how long Cox stays with Medlen here.
Ray
April 29th, 2010
2:42 pm
Wren is only part of the problem. He took over when the team was fading. He has little real payroll flexibility. The Braves are fixated on drafting pitchers in early rounds. Then, they find they have no hitters. They finally get a high pick in 2009(#7) and they use it to draft an easily signable pitcher with only medium upside. They may not need Andrus or Feliz, but Wren implies they therefore have no value which is nonsense (as some of you have said already)
datominator
April 29th, 2010
2:50 pm
Ahhh, and so it begins. When they broke camp after Spring Training, there was a general consensus that they had a solid team, albeit with some question marks. Even many of last year’s Wren-haters were quiet for a time, but nothing like a losing streak to bring out the haters (”I knew all along it was a bad team, I just didn’t want to say it, so phooey!”). I agree that they look bad right now, but to see some of the, more creative shall we say, opinions of armchair GMs, the Braves must have an unlimited supply of money and prospects to simply blow up the current lineup and go get A-Gone from SD, or from . Sorry, but even if he were looking to make a deal right now, he’s not going to have any trade partners this early.
Henry
April 29th, 2010
2:57 pm
I think the braves need to barrow Thomas Dimitroff from the falcons. Maybe he would make some good hires and not trade what players they have. Wren sure didn’t learn very much from Schuerholz.
P.J.
April 29th, 2010
2:58 pm
In fairness to Frank Wren, did he not sign JJ, Vazquez, McLouth and Ross, and did he not draft, Heyward, Hanson, Medlin. JS had made some questionable trades prior to Wren taking over, as a result the farm was bare, and wren is replenishing the farm with good talent. The Tex, Kotchman, Laroche deal was bad, and the fact that none of those guys would make the Big League club does not matter. Those same players traded could be used to explore a more advantageous trade to the Braves.
Old devil
April 29th, 2010
2:59 pm
I’m going to the game Sunday, which, by the way, is Bark in the Park Day, and I’m wondering if I will get my money’s worth. But then again, my tickets are free. Some company trying to get us to buy their products. I’m sure I can stand the heat and the smell of dog poo-but can I stand the smell of the Braves stinkin’ up the joint!
the braves suck my nuts
April 29th, 2010
3:03 pm
7-1 cards. I consider this game over now! Oh yeah, the cards don’t even have albert pujols in their lineup! The braves sicken me!
Garett Anderson
April 29th, 2010
3:05 pm
We need a hitting coach a pitching coach and a manager
the braves suck my nuts
April 29th, 2010
3:05 pm
8-1! Pitching sucks, offense sucks, EVERYTHING about this team sucks! Braves are CRAP!
Peter
April 29th, 2010
3:06 pm
Hey Jeff…..Who is going to pay to see this mess ?
GTSteve
April 29th, 2010
3:12 pm
@Peter…I know who is NOT going to pay to see this mess…….ME
Marsha Sumner
April 29th, 2010
3:14 pm
Wren is a corporate hack who doesn’t have the guts to tell it like it is. He does not have flexibility with the payroll or the owners would be screaming for him to spend it to fix this mess before the fan revolt.
As for it being Bobby’s lineup…well what would you do? At this point they are all stinking up the field except for Prado.
tennisbrave
April 29th, 2010
3:15 pm
I’m afraid that this organization will not be turned around until changes are made at the top starting with Wren. He has had chances and does not seem to have made the right choices/he is way over his head in this job. Everybody knew that the leadoff position was a problem last year and going into this year. So what does Wren do about the problem? Enough said – end of story.
the braves suck my nuts
April 29th, 2010
3:15 pm
if not for stupidass chavez this game would be tied!
htownbravesfan
April 29th, 2010
3:17 pm
Sometimes I hate to be right, but as I just told my brother, I was dead on here. Glaus was one of the worst signings not only in Braves history but history period. McLouth is doing his best Andruw Jones/Jeff Francoeur impression and shows no signs of getting off stage. Cabrera was a product of the stars around him in New York. Why is Eric Hinske not the everyday first baseman, or at least in the lineup against righties? I’m confident McCann, Escobar, and Diaz will eventually come around, but I fear it will be much too late. As for Chipper, I never thought I would say this, but his spirit looks broken. Let’s see if he sticks to the retirement statement after this year. On a sad note, it’s ashame to see such good starting pitching go to waste, especially with regards to Hanson and Hudson. God bless Dale Murphy!
steelerssuck
April 29th, 2010
3:19 pm
The heat needs to be on Wren and Pendleton..This organization cannot blame the fans for not coming out to see them…why the heck should we? give me one reason why? I’m serious when i say, be sellers at the deadline..trade chipper to a contender so he can win another ring, and trade lowe..this is ridiculous..wren needs to step down at the end of the year…he is not a good GM..he’s not even mediocre….
McGuirk Lies
April 29th, 2010
3:19 pm
time to bring back the powder blue uniforms. Or maybe the red pinstriped ones! Ostrich races. I bet Willie Montanez can still play first better than what is currently available! Who needs Teixeira or Gonzalez! LONG TERM!
Thanks Liberty media. We don’t need another $50 million…LOL…Thanks McGuirk for covering for the people who pay you bonuses for taking the fall for these cheap bast…d’s
steelerssuck
April 29th, 2010
3:20 pm
It is not liberty’s fault…Wren has made some really bad moves…he is one that went out
and signed these duds….
kurula
April 29th, 2010
3:28 pm
okay…watching the game right now…i find this to be very telling: 2 of the 3 runs were scored by prado, who by FAR has proven to be the best hitter on the team. and all three of the runs were driven in by infante and hinske.
kurula
April 29th, 2010
3:32 pm
Enter your comments here
bob
April 29th, 2010
3:40 pm
wren is nuts. tex deal was the second worst (barker worst).
this season is lost despite wren’s public statements. and, trade will not do it….you can not trade an entire lineup.
time for chipper to leave third and become the most expensive bench player or go to the AL and become a DH. move mcann to third (as torre did years ago). bring up freeman in one month. release glaus and trade melkey or mclouth.
leave escobar alone. he can not be the scape goat for the losing streak. sure he is a bonehead from time to time. however he is a great rbi guy who makes contact with the ball.
tp must go and if this means that cox leaves early as well then so be it.
ugalaw
April 29th, 2010
4:03 pm
Wickman wasn’t with the Braves yet during the ten-game slide in ‘06. The bullpen, led by Chris Reitsma & Co., was the biggest culprit during that stretch. That’s the reason we went out and traded for Wickman midseason.
C from Marietta
April 29th, 2010
4:03 pm
Time to get my butt off the couch and do something else. I am done with all pro sports.
Kev
April 29th, 2010
4:08 pm
If I remember correctly, that 10 game losing streak in ‘06 came before we even acquired Wickman from the Tribe. But that comment still makes my day nonetheless. It is DEFINITELY time to rebuild. Chipper, Lowe and Glaus need to pack their bags and we need a COMPLETE overhaul in both management and front office personnel. Give us an organization that cares about winning, not one that’s corporate owned and won’t invest in quality players that aren’t over the hill.
kurula
April 29th, 2010
4:17 pm
kev–i somewhat agree with you. there are things that are good about the organization. the scouting for instance. maybe wren isn’t as bad as you think and he shows. the team needs an ownership that isn’t a corporate tax commodity. if you go back and check on the terms of the team sale, the team was a toss in on a much larger transaction. too bad we don’t have a passionate owner who loves baseball. this team is nothing but a bottom line to a company that holds many other commodities that actually dwarf this team. the braves are here to not lose money. and that is all. it makes me sad.
GTSteve
April 29th, 2010
4:19 pm
LaRoche…2 HR’s today
timbo
April 29th, 2010
4:19 pm
Chipper Jones would be a good DH for Boston, with good prospect in return. Can’t wait till 2011, go braves.
ronaldh
April 29th, 2010
4:24 pm
Ok, let’s take a look at what you wrote, Jeff. “When the Braves broke spring training, most thought this team could make the playoffs.” Then, later on, you wrote “The leadoff spot figured to be a problem. It is. Chipper Jones’ health and production figured to be questions. They are. Troy Glaus figured to be a risk. Confirmation received. Nate McLouth, Melky Cabrera – it doesn’t end.” Given the second quotation, how do you make any sense out of the first? There were/are way too many question marks for anyone to logically think “this team could make the playoffs.” 1. The leadoff spot figured to be a problem. 2. Chipper Jone’s health and production figured to be questions” 2. “Troy Glaus figured to be a risk. On and on we go. Nate McClouth and Mekly Cabrera…..So, Jeff, can you answer this question? Why did anyone expect this team to make the playoffs? I mean, face it. Someone in the Atlanta Press please write the following words. “This is a bad baseball team.” I don’t believe you will. No, Wren doesn’t have a history. Correction, he does not have a good history. Here’s another question. He knew all offseason long that this team had serious holes in its lineup. The best he could do to fill those holes was to obtain Cabrera and Glaus. The question, then, is this. If that’s the best he could do in the offseason, why would anyone expect him to make a good deal during the season, the type of deal that would fix this mess??
The Abs Man
April 29th, 2010
4:29 pm
A Nod is as Good as a Wink to a Blind Horse’ name of great Rod Stewart album of early 1970’s….
Succinct enough to apply to Cox and Wren?
Cox = delusional, denial, senile, just a stupid ol’ man. This is not Little League. Save your foolish happy talk for kids with happy meals.
Man up. Show some damn size. You put together this fetid roster. And unless the Make-A-Wish-Foundation helps out, this current lineup is dead. Now. And May and June. Dead is dead, no matter who you were in the past, rocket scientist, PhD, wino, hobo.
And Wren, as in Wreck. Broke-down ‘roid ranger Troy Glaus?
Needed to save money
The Abs Man
April 29th, 2010
4:30 pm
d Wren, as in Wreck. Broke-down ‘roid ranger Troy Glaus?
Needed to save money, so give away Javy Vasquez,,,for a rat named Melky. A rat in New York, A rat in Atlanta. But doesn’t stop Bobby from playing him every single day.
don
April 29th, 2010
4:32 pm
I just read the article on Wren. I always considered Wren was a moron. After reading his take on the Teixeira trade, I know that I was wrong. He must be somewhere between an imbecile and and a rutabaga.
By the way, Wainwright cleaned the Braves again today. Too bad Bob didn’t have a chance to see him pitch before trading him to the Cardinals in the obscene Drew trade. It is probably a good idea to observe your very top prospects before giving them to other teams for rentals.
And you guys wonder why the Braves are so pitiful. It isn’t too hard to figure out. The management is a bunch of liberals. They give everything away and, in return, receive manure.
ScottBravesfan
April 29th, 2010
4:49 pm
The Braves should try and trade for Josh Willingham on the Nats. There were rumors about a trade last year and the Braves were interested. The guy would be a huge improvement over Melky in left and can play both corner outfield positions. Then one Jordan Schafer’s wrist is fully healed get him in center and try and dump Nate unless he finally gets it together like he did in Pittsburgh.
chris
April 29th, 2010
5:02 pm
who is going to take the fall for things if the season don’t turn around? Will they fire Terry Pendleton for the sickening disply of no offense? McDowell for the pitching? How bout Hubbard because they’re not fielding. THe coachs and manager can only do so much and the issue with Wren not putting the right team on the field is the key. HE put this lousy lineup on the field, let him take the fall for it. Get someone in here with some guts to go after real ballplayers not aging Geritol commercial dudes. Is Julio still out there where?????????????????????
Bucky Blue hand it to Herschel
April 29th, 2010
5:05 pm
After the Hawks lose 4 straight to the inferior Bucks, what would you rather be, a Hawks fan or Braves fan???? hard choice lol Go Dawgs!
job
April 29th, 2010
5:21 pm
It is extremely difficult to compete with “bargain” retreads and someone over the hill (guess who)!! And can someone explain to me why the Braves gave Franceour away!
Terry
April 29th, 2010
5:26 pm
Well it looks like were back to the Braves of my youth in the 80’s. I shouldn’t have any trouble finding a seat when I take my family to the game next month.
scott
April 29th, 2010
5:48 pm
Wren panicked with his Glavine and Smoltz pr blunder by overpaying for Lowe. He would have been better not signing him and going with who he had. I dont fault the McLough deal but giving away the barn for Milkey? Trading popular and better first baseman for Troy? Not doing something with Escabar? I understand budgets but what is one or two million to keep LaRoach for two years? But Frank wants me to drive downtown with the kids, pay 10 to park, pay 100 for 4 tickets and 8 for a beer and 6 for a coke with this? I dont think so.