Wren’s problem: He hasn’t earned benefit of doubt
Here's Troy Glaus looking at a called third strike Wednesday night. He's hitting .203. So much for that experiment.
Frank Wren spent Wednesday at a high school game, coughing from pollen that triggers his allergies. That night, the Braves lost their eighth straight game in St. Louis, coughing from their apparent allergy — the other team.
They can’t hit long. They can’t hit short. Some nights they can’t field. Some nights they forget to tag up. Usually, they can pitch pretty well, although St. Louis hung 10 on them Thursday and there are some nights when Derek Lowe looks like he’s allergic to mounds.
When the Braves broke spring training, they looked like a possible playoff team. Now they have the second-worst record in baseball.
What is Wren doing about it? Nothing. Not trading. Not panicking. Not even twitching. Just waiting for the rain to wash away the pollen.
He will tell you the Braves have the advantage of time. But don’t even baseball time frames get shortened when a team has its longest losing steak since 2006 (the same year this non-playoff string began)?
“You can go from last place to first place pretty quickly this time of year,” he said. “I know everybody is jumping off the ship now. But this is like if the Falcons had played two games. We’ve only played one-eighth of the season.”
The math is accurate. But in the NFL, nobody asks, “When is the last time we lost two in a row?” When losing streaks are being researched, there’s a problem.
The Braves lost Thursday, 10-4. That makes nine straight. One more and marketing is going to have to start including lobster with the all-you-can-eat seats.
Their record is 8-14. They’ve been outscored 16-4 in the last two days. Total offense in the nine losses: 17 runs (including three shutouts).
Wren is preaching patience. If he is having a hard time finding support, it’s because that philosophy carries more weight when the preacher has a resume. The Braves have missed the playoffs four straight seasons. Wren is 0 for 3 since taking over. When the team hit a bump during John Schuerholz’ regime, it was easy to remain calm. Wren hasn’t earned the benefit of the doubt.
The leadoff spot figured to be a problem. It is. Chipper Jones’ health and production figured to be questions. They are. Troy Glaus figured to be a risk. Confirmation received. Nate McLouth, Melky Cabrera – it doesn’t end.
It was easy during the 10-game losing streak in 2006. You could look into the bullpen and say, “Their fault.”
Most of Bobby Cox's problems haven't been on the mound (Derek Lowe notwithstanding).
Now, the problems are everywhere. Every day is a new Bobby Cox lineup. Wednesday included six starters hitting .203 or less. Thursday’s lineup opened with Cabrera and Yunel Escobar, both hitting .197. (The blip is Martin Prado. He has no allergies.)
Wren said he is free to make a trade. He said, “We have some flexibility in our payroll,” though he didn’t quantify that.
“The other factor [in a trade] is how it affects us talent-wise. We have a farm system that we’re carefully stocking. We don’t want to do something that will lessen our ability to compete long term.”
It’s at this point that I mention the name: Mark Teixeira. In 2007, the Braves dealt a boatload of prospects to Texas for Teixeira. They hoped he would turn them into a World Series team. He didn’t. The thought occurs that memories of that deal would dissuade the Braves from making a significant prospects-for-All-Star trade again. (San Diego’s Adrian Gonzalez comes to mind.) But Wren said no.
“The Teixeira trade hasn’t impacted us at all,” he said. “If you look at the players we gave up, I’m not sure it’s had any effect on the major league club. We had Escobar ahead of [Elvis] Andrus at shortstop, we had [Brian] McCann ahead of [Jarrod] Saltalamacchia at catcher, the other guys wouldn’t have made our club. Neftali Feliz would be in our bullpen.”
So you wouldn’t be gun shy?
“No, not at all. We’ll make a trade if we feel it helps us.” But he added he won’t deal a prospect whom he feels can be part of the Braves’ future. That list presumably begins with Freddie Freeman.
It’s the end of April. General managers “tend to look at the quarter-poll,” Wren said. “Mid-May is when you start to get a sense where your club is. Really, June 1 is when you start making decisions.”
The math could work out. But if 8-14 turns into 16-28, just remember how early the cough started.
♦
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548 comments Add your comment
Real UT
April 29th, 2010
12:36 pm
I like our line up today. Infante and Hinske both playing. Chipper’s glove is out of the equation today. JJ throwin’. Streak ends today!
DeanMachine
April 29th, 2010
12:37 pm
it’s not liberty’s fault, wren should have never given Lowe such a big contact. Look at the Tampa Bay Rays, the best team in the bigs with young cheaper talent..they look like the 90s braves
Phil
April 29th, 2010
12:37 pm
“No speed, no power, horrendous batting average, poor defense, inexcusable baserunning, overpaid aging vets. What exactly do we expect?”
Better coaching can help on some of those issues.
Mitchell
April 29th, 2010
12:38 pm
The problem is Bobby Cox.
Frank Wren put together a team last year that by mid-September could have gone all the way to the World Series but our Hall of Fame manager screwed us over with his horrible managing.
Honestly, the best possible thing that could happen would be for the Braves to finish in last place this year. Whoever is chosen to succeed Bobby, even if he’s a complete idiot, he has the last four years to look at as a lesson on what not to do.
But seriously, Frank Wren is not the problem. By the end of 2008 he saw that if we were going to have any chance of making it back to the playoffs he would have to put his focus on the starting rotation and what happened? Last year’s starting staff turned out to be one of the best the Braves have ever had. All Bobby had to do was get his team to score runs for them and, you know, maybe not take Tommy Hanson out of a 1-0 game against the hopeless Houston Astros in favor of an over-worked Soriano.
Bobby’s not getting the job done. Either fire his @$$ and get a competent manager or hold onto the prospects and wait till next year.
joemoedee
April 29th, 2010
12:39 pm
Sign Jermaine Dye? No one has, so it’s not like he’s exactly a hot commodity. (No field, and his hitting fell apart the 2nd half of the year) Delgado? Seriously? I’d check my chances on Julio Franco.
It’s still early in the year, and the baseball season is a marathon, not a sprint. The Phillies’ pitching staff sans Halladay is suspect at best. The Mets are, well, the Mets.
Chipper hasn’t been hitting, but he’s still at almost a .400 OBP. You have to believe his bat will turn around. McCann’s slumped, we know he’ll get it together. Escobar, Cabrera, McLouth, and Diaz are NOT ~.200 hitters. Heyward’s young, and Glaus is an affordable experiment at 1B. The bats will turn around, and there’s enough pitching to keep the team in contention. Stop panicking.
Phil
April 29th, 2010
12:39 pm
“Whoever is chosen to succeed Bobby, even if he’s a complete idiot, he has the last four years to look at as a lesson on what not to do.”
Could be TP you know. More of the same would follow.
groundfog
April 29th, 2010
12:40 pm
did anybody think glaus was better than Laroche? We could have had Laroche for cheap if wren would have waited. We took a huge step back at first base.
Jesse Stone
April 29th, 2010
12:40 pm
Mitchell, you can’t be serious in saying tat last year’s roster was World Series caliber. Little League World Series? Remind me again of our outfield situation last year.
Real UT
April 29th, 2010
12:41 pm
Jesse Stone, I like your criticism of Wren. It is fair and accurate. I question is assessment of young talent, too, i.e. McLouth and Cabrera. Also, I would of rather kept a slumping Frenchy last year than given him to the Mets of all teams, and what did we get in return? RYAN CHURCH? Now we have a shot at watching a former prospect burn us every year. If your gonna trade a guy, send him out of the division. Send him to the AL. I hope Frenchy makes Wren chew on that move fora while.
groundfog
April 29th, 2010
12:42 pm
I quit listening to 680 the fan. Kincaide is nothing but a Wren apologist, it’s disgusting.
dub366
April 29th, 2010
12:43 pm
Replacement Chipper,Glaus,Mclouth & Melky need to go right now
Chip
April 29th, 2010
12:45 pm
Nice article Jeff Schultz……After doing a little research on Frank Wren, I can’t even fathom why he was hired by the Braves as the GM. He was part of the Marlins but not the GM win they won the WS with the expensive veterans they purchased for that 1 and done season.
He then went to Baltimore as GM, which turned into a disaster and he was fired after the 1st year of his 3 year contract. Next HE was hired by Schuerholz, and worked with him until he became the Braves GM in 07.
Wren is probably a pretty good baseball guy in some capacity, but he’s definitely not a guy you’d want as your GM.
Joe
April 29th, 2010
12:46 pm
The Braves are done hopefully 2011 season would be better.
Cracker Jacket
April 29th, 2010
12:47 pm
Can’t win with bargain basement players!
jim
April 29th, 2010
12:49 pm
Make Wren accountable for the current Braves team. If you do he would be fired. Just like the leader of any company, if the results are bad for three straight years with no improvement in sight, get someone else.
Braves One
April 29th, 2010
12:49 pm
Braves players will improve!
McLouth will be a 20/20 man again,
Cabrera will threaten with a .300 batting average,
Kawakami will pitch well in some clutch ball games,
Just not with the Braves. They will be off-loaded at midseason and join the ranks of Kelly Johnson and others who have left the Braces and regained their form. I hope not as I really like Nate McLouth, but that’s the way it has gone in recent years.
Phil
April 29th, 2010
12:50 pm
“Wren is probably a pretty good baseball guy in some capacity”
Yea, like walking up and down the aisles yellling “Get your Hot Dogs and Cold Beer here!”
Cracker Jacket
April 29th, 2010
12:51 pm
Can’t win with bargain basement players! May have a cheaper payroll but the empty seats will do the Braves in!
Delbert D.
April 29th, 2010
12:52 pm
“We need to manufacture runs.”
The obvious answer to that is China.
is30303
April 29th, 2010
12:52 pm
what does terry pendlelton do? seriously. i haven’t heard a thing about him as a hitter coach from the braves players or management. we know the top two hitters in this club don’t rely on him. frenchy turned to some guy in texas. even going as far back as Andruw – didn’t Bobby fix his swing for that 50hr year?
i don’t want to criticize TP because there are limitations to what a coach can do (i don’t think anyone on the planet can help my swing) but isn’t there someone better? I’ve been asking about Don Baylor – he was a pretty good hitting coach back in 99.
Can we get Don Baylor back in this town?
Ripped Again
April 29th, 2010
12:54 pm
Wren was on 680 the Fan monday and sounded like captian of a sinking ship saying everythings is ok don’t worry ,thats the BS he knows this team isnt that good …i don’t have ANY faith in him or this team rigth now !!!!
Orlando Man
April 29th, 2010
12:56 pm
So….is he saying that the Teixiera trade really doesn’t have an impact who we have now? Harrison could be a starter easily an equal to Lowe while Feliz could be closing in the future. With that in mind, would we have signed Lowe as a free agent? Andrus could be the SS with Escobar the future at 3rd…or vice versa…or possibly trade bait to San Diego’s bat. Salt…(you fill in the rest) could be at firstbase and doing backup catching duties like he is in Texas. Without signing Lowe, going after Adrian Gonzalez and signing him long term could have been a possibility as well…or even keeping LaRoche. Anyway, that trade is why he is gun shy.
For some reason I still believe in Glaus. He has hit some real stingers…unfortunately they were either right at someone or foul. That being said….They are getting him out with fastballs…92-93 mph fastballs. He can’t catch up to them still. Hopefully by the end of May he is catching up with them.
BRAVES ARE TOAST
April 29th, 2010
12:57 pm
The Braves are done. They have been replaced by real clubs paying real players. The Braves, well they take what they can get because they are to cheap to pay a player thats worth something some money. They would rather pay a Derik Lowe some 16 million and a Chipper (sit on bench with booboo’s) Jones 15 million. Yea, lets put all the money in the old guys and then depend on utility players to get the job done. Its simply not going to happen.
Something else thats simply not going to happen is my appearance at any of those home games. They cant field a team, I cant put out the money. Let Liberty pay for nothing because Im sure not going to. I would rather play golf.
GTSteve
April 29th, 2010
12:58 pm
Today is the day that the bats wake up, today is the day that the Braves start winning…..copy and paste to save for tomorrow…
Tami
April 29th, 2010
12:58 pm
@Simple Dawg: It’s more like: The Braves have hemorrhaged prospects for “long past their prime” messiahs (if they even had a prime to begin with). But, I do agree. It’s interesting that the common denominator here always goes back to Wren. I do remember second-guessing Scheurholz on occasion, but not nearly as much as I have been second-guessing Wren. I would really love to reverse the Wainwright for Drew trade, by the way.
Chip
April 29th, 2010
12:58 pm
Does anyone know what kind of relationship Wren & Cox have? I’ve read, but don’t if it’s true that Bobby & Frank don’t get along….It’s pretty easy to gang up on this team when they’re losing, but my goodness, this Braves team totally lacks everything, except for maybe a decent pitching staff.
no power
terrible defense
terrible hitting
poor team speed
veterans on the major decline who are hurting the team
a stubborn manager who manages poorly and has lost control of his team
Wow, the Braves are really bad !!!
Braves smell
April 29th, 2010
12:59 pm
Nice to know after looking at ESPN that the Braves are now rated number 26 out of 30. Theres still four slots we can slide before they are the worst team in baseball. Thats pretty sick since they were once known as Americans Team. Just sick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
groundfog
April 29th, 2010
1:00 pm
Wren needs to feel some major heat. He put this bucket of dung together. He’s making millions to do this job and he is horrible.
Reality Check
April 29th, 2010
1:01 pm
The Braves are paying for their Cheap Skate ways. Retread/washup player at first, left field and center field has not real everyday starters and Chipper is washed up at third. RF Heyward should be great but can you really depend on a 20 year old rookie to be your best hitter? The Braves had a chance to add at least one legimate bat in offseason and failed to make any moves. This team is horrible and even to watch some nights is painful. Batters 7-9 and leadoff provide 4 straight outs during the games. KJ would be good to have in LF right now, but would probably be hitting 200 right now with 1 HR for the Braves.
dr henry/ augusta
April 29th, 2010
1:01 pm
Short memories guys….it was about this time last yr. we were playing horribly….everyone giving up on the Braves…gruadually we got better and better and with a week to go in the season we were only a game out of the wild card and were only eliminated when Diaz made a bonehead baserunning mistake off of third…Remember? Yes, we have to do something at 1st but the other hitters will come around…Our pitching is too solid to be this bad….Have faith its still April!!!
LostCause
April 29th, 2010
1:04 pm
Trade Lowe and a failing outfielder back to LA for Matt Kemp or Ethier, or even Ramirez if they don’t like any of them out there:)
Chip
April 29th, 2010
1:05 pm
dr henry/ augusta,
Totally different vibe on this years team as compared to last years.
Einstein
April 29th, 2010
1:05 pm
If Bobby is “the players’ manager”, how come the players have quit playing?
Hillbilly Deluxe
April 29th, 2010
1:06 pm
The Braves aren’t a contender and it shows. They’re rebuilding, even though they don’t admit it publically. That would hurt the gate.
Jesse Stone
April 29th, 2010
1:08 pm
How much of an improvement would Marlon Byrd (3 yrs/15MM) be in our outfield? Just think if we’d taken minor leaguers only for Vaz, this could’ve happened. But no, Melky was a “good fit” for our team.
SuperStation 17
April 29th, 2010
1:09 pm
……….8 …….is ENOUGH !
Roy Hobbs
April 29th, 2010
1:10 pm
If you are going to question Wrens evaluation of young talent, dont forget, even in that article above he ranks Escobar above Andrus. As everyone is so quick to point out, you cant judge a trade when it happens, you have to look back three or four years down the road and see how it actually panned out for each team.
I can see if he were saying at the time we just thought Escobar was better than Andrus. But to say that its not currently hurting the team not having Andrus on the roster either means he is stupid or he is lieing through his teeth. Not sure which is worse.
Bill in VA
April 29th, 2010
1:12 pm
Good job Jeff!! Keep telling it like it is. YOU ARE the voice of reason!! Sensible comments.
DHD
April 29th, 2010
1:16 pm
Somewhere, I hear Dandy Don Meredith warming up. We are not even good enough to have the fat lady sing.
shawn
April 29th, 2010
1:16 pm
I am shocked by his response..Yes, it is early but really as a regular fan, there are too many issues on this team. Weloome to the world of denial Mr. Wren…
Night n Day
April 29th, 2010
1:20 pm
Funny to compare the comments made about this team from before the no hitter now. Wow! How long ago was that???
How about 2009 to 2010. “Braves Trash Opening Day Opponent behind Rookie Phenom’s Homer in First Game Only to Fall Apart Not Long After”. What year was that?
DesiBrave
April 29th, 2010
1:20 pm
Manager : Phil Garner , Pitching Coach : Jim Hickey/Leo Mazzone
Proposed Braves Lineup for 2011
1) Brian Roberts (Trade for him from Orioles) 2B
McLouth CF
2) Martin Prado 3B
3) Carl Crawford LF
4) Jason Heyward RF
5) McCann C
6) Freddie Freeman 1B
7)Yunel Escobar SS
Pitchers
Hudson
Jurgens
Hanson
Kawakami
Medlen
Venters, Moylan, O’Flahretty, Kimbrel (Closer)
That team should do what the 1991 Braves did and even better.
Jesse Stone
April 29th, 2010
1:24 pm
In 15 years, Phil Garner has managed a team to a winning record THREE times. I have no problems with our pitchers, so why change the coach? Jim Hickey is not exactly working with duds in Tampa.
gcs
April 29th, 2010
1:26 pm
Wren has done a decent job at building a pitching staff but practically nothing in regards to the position players. Maybe the Braves need to make Wren the GM of Pitching and hire someone to be the GM of Position Players.
.
Squid Bream
April 29th, 2010
1:26 pm
There’s an extreme power shortage with that “dream lineup” posted above. Is there a Braves blog for ages 18 and up?
Now leading off...
April 29th, 2010
1:28 pm
…good thing Johnny Damon wasn’t signed… he is only hitting .321. I mean, who needs a leadoff man anyway? Hurray for “The Melkman”.
Peter
April 29th, 2010
1:28 pm
Wow no panic……..
I guess after say the 11 game loosing streak, ( only 3 more to go ) and playing .300 ball……….. they will scratch their collective heads like Bobby does after each loss ?
No fire in anyone’s belly……they are all as mellow as Bobby seems to be……..Only problem with that is Bobby is a retiree, not willing to quit on time !
Mad Mike
April 29th, 2010
1:28 pm
the real culprit is us. we americans are responsible for allowing coporatism to define our lives here in the states. back when baseball was the national pastime, it had a personality. it was skip and pete. even if the braves sucked, we could at least spend three hours listening to those two. and even joe and don more recently. no disrespect to the current rotation of analysts/commentators/announcers/color guys/whatever corporate word is being used to describe the position these days, but i don’t connect with them (even joe anymore). and maybe the reason for that is the company that signs their checks specifically directs and controls their on-air conversations (which shouldn’t surprise anyone).
now when we’re losing, it’s not even funny because skip isn’t dropping one-liners and effortlessly making another self-deprecating joke. now we’re way too far into analysis of why we suck. you know why we suck? IT DOESN’T MATTER WHY WE SUCK – WE JUST SUCK. and skip. and pete. and joe and don. and ernie. can’t make it any better for us. they’re not corportate enough. well…except for maybe joe.
1eyedJack
April 29th, 2010
1:29 pm
This team has been exasperatingly brutal to watch thus far.
Peter
April 29th, 2010
1:29 pm
Yes it was good we didn’t sign Damon…… YES Lead off guys are not important !