Wren’s problem: He hasn’t earned benefit of doubt
Here's Troy Glaus looking at a called third strike Wednesday night. He's hitting .203. So much for that experiment.
Frank Wren spent Wednesday at a high school game, coughing from pollen that triggers his allergies. That night, the Braves lost their eighth straight game in St. Louis, coughing from their apparent allergy — the other team.
They can’t hit long. They can’t hit short. Some nights they can’t field. Some nights they forget to tag up. Usually, they can pitch pretty well, although St. Louis hung 10 on them Thursday and there are some nights when Derek Lowe looks like he’s allergic to mounds.
When the Braves broke spring training, they looked like a possible playoff team. Now they have the second-worst record in baseball.
What is Wren doing about it? Nothing. Not trading. Not panicking. Not even twitching. Just waiting for the rain to wash away the pollen.
He will tell you the Braves have the advantage of time. But don’t even baseball time frames get shortened when a team has its longest losing steak since 2006 (the same year this non-playoff string began)?
“You can go from last place to first place pretty quickly this time of year,” he said. “I know everybody is jumping off the ship now. But this is like if the Falcons had played two games. We’ve only played one-eighth of the season.”
The math is accurate. But in the NFL, nobody asks, “When is the last time we lost two in a row?” When losing streaks are being researched, there’s a problem.
The Braves lost Thursday, 10-4. That makes nine straight. One more and marketing is going to have to start including lobster with the all-you-can-eat seats.
Their record is 8-14. They’ve been outscored 16-4 in the last two days. Total offense in the nine losses: 17 runs (including three shutouts).
Wren is preaching patience. If he is having a hard time finding support, it’s because that philosophy carries more weight when the preacher has a resume. The Braves have missed the playoffs four straight seasons. Wren is 0 for 3 since taking over. When the team hit a bump during John Schuerholz’ regime, it was easy to remain calm. Wren hasn’t earned the benefit of the doubt.
The leadoff spot figured to be a problem. It is. Chipper Jones’ health and production figured to be questions. They are. Troy Glaus figured to be a risk. Confirmation received. Nate McLouth, Melky Cabrera – it doesn’t end.
It was easy during the 10-game losing streak in 2006. You could look into the bullpen and say, “Their fault.”
Most of Bobby Cox's problems haven't been on the mound (Derek Lowe notwithstanding).
Now, the problems are everywhere. Every day is a new Bobby Cox lineup. Wednesday included six starters hitting .203 or less. Thursday’s lineup opened with Cabrera and Yunel Escobar, both hitting .197. (The blip is Martin Prado. He has no allergies.)
Wren said he is free to make a trade. He said, “We have some flexibility in our payroll,” though he didn’t quantify that.
“The other factor [in a trade] is how it affects us talent-wise. We have a farm system that we’re carefully stocking. We don’t want to do something that will lessen our ability to compete long term.”
It’s at this point that I mention the name: Mark Teixeira. In 2007, the Braves dealt a boatload of prospects to Texas for Teixeira. They hoped he would turn them into a World Series team. He didn’t. The thought occurs that memories of that deal would dissuade the Braves from making a significant prospects-for-All-Star trade again. (San Diego’s Adrian Gonzalez comes to mind.) But Wren said no.
“The Teixeira trade hasn’t impacted us at all,” he said. “If you look at the players we gave up, I’m not sure it’s had any effect on the major league club. We had Escobar ahead of [Elvis] Andrus at shortstop, we had [Brian] McCann ahead of [Jarrod] Saltalamacchia at catcher, the other guys wouldn’t have made our club. Neftali Feliz would be in our bullpen.”
So you wouldn’t be gun shy?
“No, not at all. We’ll make a trade if we feel it helps us.” But he added he won’t deal a prospect whom he feels can be part of the Braves’ future. That list presumably begins with Freddie Freeman.
It’s the end of April. General managers “tend to look at the quarter-poll,” Wren said. “Mid-May is when you start to get a sense where your club is. Really, June 1 is when you start making decisions.”
The math could work out. But if 8-14 turns into 16-28, just remember how early the cough started.
♦
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548 comments Add your comment
Braves management and Bobby Cox
April 29th, 2010
11:57 am
Manufacturing runs is a completely overrated strategy in baseball. Sitting back and waiting for the long ball is the best policy.
Ted M
April 29th, 2010
11:58 am
Erik I think your right to a degree but its not so much as the money drying up as it is the market out pacing the Braves.
Still alot of teams are competing at a high level with less payroll the the Braves.
braves70
April 29th, 2010
11:59 am
Dear Frank, Please leave Atlanta and head north, for the good of your allergies…….. and our sanity.
Jesse Stone
April 29th, 2010
11:59 am
In order to manufacture runs, you must have a runner on base. You can’t steal first. What are Braves leadoff hitters batting this season?
Roy Hobbs
April 29th, 2010
12:00 pm
Great story. I hope Wren does not believe his own spin. He might like to say that the Tex trade has not harmed the club, but those are some high ceiling young players on the Texas major league roster. Andrus might be just whats needed to motivate Escobar, or allow the big league club to trade him away. Feliz might be in the bullpen, or he might be the 5th starter, or the closer. He would have a bright future whatever role he filled.
I guess I dont expect Wren to admit it was a mistake, but I hope he is at least being honest with himself. At the time it may have been a good idea, but time has shown that the risk was not worth the reward. Put another way, the juice was not worth the squeeze.
Jesse Stone
April 29th, 2010
12:02 pm
Other than the worst records in baseball, what do the Braves and Orioles have in common?
Roger
April 29th, 2010
12:02 pm
We could have Andruw, Francoeur, Kelly Jones and LaRoche. Instead we have Melky, McClouth, Glaus and a worn out Chipper. Get ready for the cellar all year long, guys.
BuckheadBrave
April 29th, 2010
12:02 pm
Gayle,
excellent point, thats been the case of many corporately owned teams, if they make enough on attendance (which i don;t see how the Braves do) ownership actually makes more money not having to operate the stadium for additional days in the playoffs. This was the case for years with the Tribune Company and the Cubs. They made so much money from Wrigley Field being a tourist destination, there was no reason of incentive for them to put a winning team on the field. That being said i don’t see how the Braves are making money with their attendance even with their anemic payroll.
Ted M
April 29th, 2010
12:04 pm
What will it take to sigh Carl Crawford to a long term contact? anyone
Poorbrave
April 29th, 2010
12:05 pm
Milky 8 for 23 last 9 games…Dye is another old re-run we don’t need, thats the problem now!
250 comments and 246 unhappy Fans= 4 old farts
rocketide
April 29th, 2010
12:05 pm
Major mistakes
1. Chippers contract- who gives that many years to such a fragile player
2. Overreacting to pitching need last year- Lowe and KK overpaid for both
3 No position players developed- who is running the draft
4. Going for it with the Wainright and Tex trades- we really weren’t that close- JScher. wanted one last hurrah
5. No speed- manager should have retired and took TP with him
DP
April 29th, 2010
12:05 pm
With regard to Jermaine Dye, I read recently that he was/is somehow expecting to get something close to the $11 million he made last year. He was terrible the last 2-3 months of last season at the plate (OPS under .600) and can’t play the outfield. He turned down $3 million during the offseason. No chance the Braves are going to give Dye the kind of money they’re looking for, nor should they. They don’t need to get older, slower and worse defensively.
PMC
April 29th, 2010
12:05 pm
Gayle, Spot on.
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater
April 29th, 2010
12:05 pm
i’m calling for a 4-1 win by STL today. Braves with 5 hits and 1 error. RBI by who else, Prado or Heyward. Rest of team continues to slide into dead-ends
Wheeler
April 29th, 2010
12:06 pm
I feel it is time for a new hitting coach. My comments about Wren he is known to get these rental players. My question is he had money left over in the Payroll why not go get a BIG BAT. I would get the word out no one is safe anyone can be traded even Chipper and McCann. Myabe then they will play!!! Just my thoughts..
Angus
April 29th, 2010
12:06 pm
Ted M – Chipper’s contract?
ozzie
April 29th, 2010
12:07 pm
I would think the team will have to get better just b/c they cannot get much worse. The need to play a series against a weaker team (if there is a such a thing) and beat them up good.
From there we may see some momentum and confidence or they could go right back to being shut down.
My bigger question is what do you root for?
We all know or at least believe that Wren and the Braves FO approach to the offense has been flawed for years. Whether its due to true budget cuts, self imposed smart shopping or totally misjudging talent (who to get, keep and dump) we keep ending up in the same place.
The misjudging talent issue is a concern b/c if you don’t have that skill in your system (up to and including your GM) you are really screwed.
So let’s hope the talent judgement issue is not the main culprit.
The rest is fixable but only on the heels of a terrible season where all the ?s and potential I told you so’s come home to roost.
In other words Wren, JS and McGuirk need to see the folly of their ways (being cheap, relying on platoons, relying on reclamation vets) and be called on it by Liberty, the press and the fans.
So losing like this all season with talk (on the front page of the AJC and various sports websites) of Wren getting canned along with others may be the only thing that gets them off the crack pipe that is band aid offensive strategies.
Turning it around and almost making the playoffs in 2010 will in some sick way cause Wren to believe in what he is doing and hence he will try it again in 2011.
To break this cycle of failure they need to fall flat on their face not b/c of injuries or poor on field mgt but b/c the team they created just sucked and it was clear to everyone that was the reason for the failed season.
I believe they need that kind of palate cleansing season to open up some eyes all the way to CO and hopefully the commissioner’s office. The latter b/c Liberty made some promises to Selig about investing in the team and fielding a winner versus managing a tax write off.
Perhaps CO should get more involved b/c the crew in ATL is not doing a crackerjack job with their money.
Ted M
April 29th, 2010
12:07 pm
DP – who was it that made the 3 mil offer to Dye?
.
April 29th, 2010
12:07 pm
agree rocktide but 6. lead off hitter 7. power hitter
Jesse Stone
April 29th, 2010
12:07 pm
5. No speed- manager should have retired…
Exactly how fast should Bobby be?
Ted M
April 29th, 2010
12:08 pm
that would be a great swap. all we’d have to do is add a few years to it.
Jesse Stone
April 29th, 2010
12:10 pm
No speed, no power, horrendous batting average, poor defense, inexcusable baserunning, overpaid aging vets. What exactly do we expect?
Ted M
April 29th, 2010
12:12 pm
He haven’t heard from Jeff in awhile because he is working hard to get us the lineup for today’s game.
ExBraves Fan
April 29th, 2010
12:13 pm
If the Braves are going to play this bad, then maybe it is time to bring the AAA team up here. Lose with kids like KC, Pitts, etc are doing. Heck, even the sorry Nationals are better than the Braves. It is time to get rid of Glaus, MilkDUD, McHitless in CF, Loweless, and a few others. Just thell Chipper thanks it has been nice, now go to the ranch in Texas and enjoy the rest of your life on all those millions you have made. Time for Pendleton to hit the road also. If Frenchy and Johnson are hitting for other teams, maybe it was not the players, but the hitting coach. He certainly has at least FOUR players hitting below .200 and he cannot get them to hit. Time for him too go. Maybe Bobby should just call it a career now also.
Justafan
April 29th, 2010
12:13 pm
Mgr got to be fast to pick nose,ya.
Jesse , u right-get what you pay for.
NO MORE BOBBY
April 29th, 2010
12:13 pm
I think we have a future politician in Wren because dude is really good at talking around the issues.
Skeezix
April 29th, 2010
12:14 pm
The team’s major flaw is lack of hitting talent–but they are also really demotivated right now. The coach can try to address this only so much– a great deal must come from the players. I believe some of this is a team chemistry problem. The team lacks a “never say die”/gutsy leader. A teammate who sets an example and will call out another for lack of effort or attitude–or who can get others fired up. Any successful sports team has to have that. Look at this year’s Butler and Duke basketball teams–they were loaded with those kinds of personalities. John Smoltz was one of those type leaders for the Braves for years (of course Wren ran him off). The heart and effort put into every game by someone like Mark Lemke (”Dirt”) spoke volumes to his teammates.
.
April 29th, 2010
12:14 pm
Wren taking spin lessons from Obama…………
Angus
April 29th, 2010
12:15 pm
I’m not going to admit to reading your last post Jesse. I’m staying in denial till at least the AS break.
Ted M
April 29th, 2010
12:15 pm
We not he
NoSourceInsider.com
April 29th, 2010
12:16 pm
Unconfirmed reports out of St. Louis that Chipper is sitting out this game with a sprained left nipple.
deb
April 29th, 2010
12:17 pm
It’s time for Braves fans just to get over the fact that the Braves despite their “14 championship” years are not that good of a baseball organization. A picture tells a 1000 stories, the one with “1995 World Champions” sign in the locker room. That’s going on 15 years ago and even with the 1995 banner the Braves still have one less title then the Phillies, Mets & Marlins.
Get over it the Braves a returning to their roots, mediocrity.
BraveMan
April 29th, 2010
12:18 pm
hey Jeff,
has a team ever lost 8 in a row and made the playoffs??? just curious…
Ted M
April 29th, 2010
12:19 pm
This just in…the injury occurred as Bobby Cox was suckling said nipple for lineup inspiration.
steve h
April 29th, 2010
12:20 pm
Wren is preaching patience. If he is having a hard time finding support, it’s because that philosophy carries more weight when the preacher has a resume. The Braves have missed the playoffs four straight seasons. Wren is 0 for 3 since taking over. He is 8-13 this year. When the team hit a bump during John Schuerholz’ regime, it was easy to remain calm. Wren hasn’t earned the benefit of the doubt.
Frank Wren may not be getting the benefit of the doubt here but isn’t it also true that John Schuerholz is not completely out of the picture. I mean, I can’t imagine that the Braves president and former GM would stand idle if something were seriously wrong with Wren’s moves or his thought process.
Wren may not have the benefit of the doubt from the fans and media but I don’t believe for one second that John Schuerholz would watch an organization that he built a hugely successful career around, just sit back and watch it implode. I’m also not implying that this is what people are saying — I’m just saying that it “seems” if the Braves were truly in dire straits here, that he would do everything in his professional power to do act on it — John Schuerholz is, afterall, the President of Baseball Operations, which has all to with fielding talent both long term and short term, not just some cushy administrative position within the organization with built-in tee times and long lunches.
Jesse Stone
April 29th, 2010
12:21 pm
No Source- I got a chuckle out of that.
Ted M- One step too far.
Supes
April 29th, 2010
12:22 pm
Jeff,
Don’t forget that Dan Kolb had the famous water cooler tantrum fit in the dugout after he blew yet another save a few years ago…since most Braves pitchers are rather composed and (I can’t recall another Brave doing this where it was seen)…I think he would win the poll of Kolb vs Wickman.
Still…when they were blowing saves…they provided some good humor. A friend once said, Bob must be in a hurry to blow the game so he can get to the post game table spread…he could smell the hotdogs and burgers from the MOUND like no other!
Back to this current bunch…all we have is good solid starting pitching and pen (I believe Lowe will be serviceable, Kawakami…who knows). With a below average lineup…this is a below .500 club! It is what it is…we bought into the hope and bill of goods sold to us as fans and now we are getting the dose from reality.
the real Old Gold
April 29th, 2010
12:23 pm
I’ve known and said this for about a year and a half now… The Frenchy trade as well as the prospects we gave up for Tex and how well they’re doing now said it all early on.
jamie
April 29th, 2010
12:25 pm
why not bring freeman up…..what scared were going to lose….haha were already doing that…..
Jesse Stone
April 29th, 2010
12:25 pm
No. Worried he will be overmatched and stunt his development.
Marc in FL
April 29th, 2010
12:26 pm
Wren didn’t make the Tex deal , he got us JJ and Vasquez and Mclouth (and practically gave nothing away to get any of these guys). The Wagner and Saito combo is much more fierce that Soriano and Gonzo – and cheaper.
He’s made mistakes too, but it’s not like everything he’s done has been a failure. Personally I think the trade to send Tex to the Angels was his biggest blunder. If that’s all he could have gotten he should have just kept him and got draft picks.
And before I hear anymore uneducated baseball fans rave about how KJ is tearing it up, do me a favor and check out his home/away splits at baseballreference.com. kthx
Roekest
April 29th, 2010
12:28 pm
I’ve said Wren was worthless since Day One. NOW, someone hears me?
Not Wren's fault
April 29th, 2010
12:28 pm
Liberty media won’t give them a competitive budget. in the 14 year run, Braves were always near the top 5-8 in payroll. Now they are not and have live around $95mil for like 5 seasons. How can they compete with Mets and Phillies with $30-$50 million less? what do you think Frank Wren could do with a $130 mill payroll…..He could have signed a legit OF (like Jason bay or holiday) and gotten a much better option at 1b for starters. the Braves will never be good until Liberty sells or increases the payroll by 30%….
Ted M
April 29th, 2010
12:29 pm
yep probably
Furman Bitcher
April 29th, 2010
12:29 pm
Calling Greg Norton, calling Greg Norton. He would be an improvement for this offense.
Jesse Stone
April 29th, 2010
12:30 pm
My biggest problem with Wren has been a)getting nothing better than Melky for Vaz. I would have rather gotten minor leaguers only in return and spent the 3M for Melky elsewhere. and b) promising a big bat and doing no better than Glaus. there is a c) overpaying for Derek Lowe. It would have been much better making medlen the 5th starter and bumping every pitcher up one spot. We could have spent Lowe’s money on offense.
dub366
April 29th, 2010
12:31 pm
John Smoltz sure no how to shut up Joe don’t know what he talking about Simpsons
TruthSeeker
April 29th, 2010
12:32 pm
This season has been a real kick in the goody sack, although it shouldn’t be. I feel stupid for buying into Wren’s propaganda. This was not a good baseball team coming out spring. When your 3-4-5 hitters are an injury-prone 38 year old with declining power, a catcher who isn’t even in the lineup every day, and a guy coming off major shoulder surgery and making a position change, then there are major issues.
I think a lot of us, including a lot of the media who picked us to contend for the NL East title, were blinded by the Heyward hype. And until this recent slump he’s been mired in, he’s been as good as advertised. But he can’t do it all, and he is still just a baby and is going to have growing pains.
What’s really scary to think about is that the Braves last two wins were improbable, come-from-behind victories after trailing in the 9th inning. If not for Heyward working his magic in those two games, we’d be in an eleven-game losing streak and sitting at 6-15.
The Braves aren’t this horrible, but even if guys start hitting closer to their career norms this team still isn’t going to be very good. There’s still a gaping hole in the power department, and we’re not good defensively.
One move I would make right away – and admittedly this wouldn’t solve our biggest problems – is to replace Kawakami in the rotation with Medlen. KK was solid down the stretch last year, but he just doesn’t inspire confidence.
As for the offense, I’m out of answers. I just don’t think there’s enough there to make it work, and Wren’s head needs to roll for that.
dub366
April 29th, 2010
12:33 pm
Keep Smoltzie on TV because he knows what he talking about.
DeanMachine
April 29th, 2010
12:35 pm
Good job Schultzie! i’ve been saying this for a while. what has wren ever done? he was a bust in baltimore, and a bust here. He needs to be fired and we need a competent GM. Frank is better suited
to play the role he did under JS. JS needs to get involved here and force something. This team is getting worse…it’s prob in their heads now…We also need a new hitting coach too..