Draft report card: Graders get an F, Falcons get 3 to 5 years

This is Mel Kiper. I don't particularly like what he does, and I certainly don't like his hair.

This is Mel Kiper. I don't particularly like what he does, and I certainly don't like his hair.

I was going to start this by saying what a stupid exercise it is for media members to “grade” an NFL teams’ drafts every year, and then I found something written by Rob Rang of CBS Sports that supplies the perfect analogy:

“Grading a draft immediately after it concludes is akin to giving your compliments to the chef before the meal has been served. Sure, the food might sound good (or bad) based on the ingredients listed on the menu, but the true review can’t be done until after the product has been tested.”

Think about it. I’ve had 17,000 plates of fettucini alfredo in my [ever-shortening] life. Sometimes, I wanted to marry it. Other times, I want to use it as spackle.  Now, I may know my body NEEDS fettucini alfredo (go with it). But can I really give myself an A for making the right choice of fettucini alfredo on the menu, especially when the name of the restaurant is “Pedro’s”?

That didn’t come out right. But the point is, while I can know the Falcons need help at outline linebacker and on the defensive and offensive lines, I can’t know if Thomas Dimitroff picked the right players until after we’ve seen them play?.

You might’ve noticed: There’s no scoreboard at drafts.

And, dude: Please don’t come to the table with: “The guy shouldn’t have been drafted. EVERBODY knows it. I heard it on ESPN!”

Here’s what I know: The non-experts don’t know because the fact is even the experts don’t really know. Every year there are first-round busts and sixth-round Pro Bowlers. Drafts take three to five years to accurately judge.

All we can do is judge whether our team seemed to fill the right positions and didn’t do anything obviously stupid, like draft a player with five kids,  seven DUIs or ever once uttered the phrase, “I see nothing wrong with dog fighting.”

So with that as a backdrop, I’ve compiled a list of “grades” from “experts.” They range from B to C-minus.  They are for entertainment purposes only.

But before getting to the report cards, following is some actual serious analysis from a guy named Nolan Nawrocki, a respected draft analyst from Pro Football Weekly. Here’s his take on each of the Falcons’ seven draft picks:

Sean Weatherspoon, OLB, Missouri: With Mike Peterson aging and playing undisciplined football, Weatherspoon adds youth to the Falcons’ linebacking unit. He is big, fast and flies to the ball. His play dropped off as a senior after he bulked up, but he looked much more comfortable after dropping weight at the Senior Bowl. The biggest challenge he will face upon entering the pros will be keeping his ego in check and not alienating veterans in the locker room.

Corey Peters, DT, Kentucky: The Falcons concentrated on shoring up the the middle of their defense with the selections of Weatherspoon and Peters. Peters is a developmental three-technique with the quickness to add some value on third downs. With the injuries that struck the interior defensive line last season, depth was much needed.

Mike Johnson, G, Alabama: With Harvey Dahl and Tyson Clabo restricted free agents and Justin Blalock entering a contract year, the Falcons needed some depth on the right side of their line, and Mike Johnson could provide it. He was a versatile performer on a national championship line and has the toughness and competitiveness to function ably in the NFL’s trenches.

Joe Hawley, C, UNLV: The Falcons had a need in the middle of their line with Todd McClure aging, and they may have found a suitable replacement in Hawley . He may not look the part, but he is tough, scrappy and competitive and has the type of football temperament to play in the NFL a long time. He could also provide depth at guard, where he played as a senior.

Dominique Franks, CB, Oklahoma: Hawley could bring the most value to the Falcons as a return man. He looks the part and has an intriguing physical skill set, but too many inconsistencies showed up on tape in college. He could compete for a job as a No. 4 or No. 5 corner.

♦ Kerry Meier, WR, Kansas: A converted quarterback, [Meier] has the dependable hands to stick as a No. 4 or No. 5 possession receiver with the Falcons, and could bring added value in the locker room with strong intangibles. He should earn a roster spot and has a chance to contribute.

Shann Schillinger, S, Montana: [Schillinger] quickly came off the board to the Falcons and has the temperament to make the roster as a special-teams kamikaze.

The judges weigh in with their opinions after a draft pick at Radio City Music Hall in New York Thursday night.

The judges weigh in with their opinions after a draft pick at Radio City Music Hall in New York Thursday night.

And  now, here’s are some of the grades:

♦ Mel Kiper, ESPN (C-minus) Sean Weatherspoon is a good outside linebacker and has the strength and size to start and be productive in this league, but after that, it’s a lot of wishful thinking. Corey Peters was a slight reach on my board even at 83 and has a ways to go to improve his skills. Joseph Hawley has a chance to develop, but a pair of guards and no tight end or even a shot at a defensive end surprises me. I don’t see an improved football team. (Note: Kiper also gave out C-minuses to Miami, Denver, Washington and Minnesota. The only team with a lower grade was Jacksonville with a D.”

♦ John Czarnecki, Fox Sports (B) (who’s solid and I’ve known for years, going back to NFL beat writing days in Los Angeles): “The Falcons concentrated on filling needs with Missouri OLB Sean Weatherspoon, possibly the most complete linebacker in the draft. He can cover and also rush the passer. To beef up the defensive line, Kentucky DT Corey Peters was taken with the 83rd overall pick and he should be a run stuffer. Alabama guard Mike Johnson is a physical run blocker and gives the Falcons some much needed depth at the position. Johnson started 41 consecutive games and played in a school-record 54 games. You have to remember, too, that the Falcons used a second-round pick on Tony Gonzalez, who paid huge dividends last season to Matt Ryan and the offense. Weatherspoon should be a starter. Guard Joe Hawley provided much-need depth. Oklahoma CB Dominique Franks knows how to play, but does he possess NFL speed and quickness?”

♦ Ross Tucker, Sports Illustrated (he didn’t give grades, just opinions): “What I liked: The selection of Sean Weatherspoon, ranked by some as the top linebacker in the draft, to immediately start at outside linebacker next to tackling machine Curtis Lofton. What I didn’t: The Falcons still don’t have a legitimate pass-rusher opposite John Abraham and even he isn’t the player he used to be. Moving forward: Signing Dunta Robinson in free agency and getting last year’s first round pick, Peria Jerry, back from injury gives this defense enough juice to compete with the New Orleans Saints for the NFC South division title.”

Rob Rang, CBS Sports (B-minus) (who did this despite denouncing the exercise) “The Atlanta Falcons struck gold a few years ago with the selection of undersized linebacker Curtis Lofton in the second round. They went back to the Big 12 for another speedy playmaker with Sean Weatherspoon in the first. Expected to take over the weak-side position, Weatherspoon is ideal in Atlanta’s cover-two scheme, as is third-round pick Corey Peters, an underrated defensive tackle who several teams were targeting. Offensive guard Mike Johnson and center Joe Hawley provide solid depth. Cornerback Dominique Franks slipped to the fifth round, but has the length and straight-line speed to be effective in this scheme.”

Pete Prisco, CBS Sports (B-minus): “Best pick: Third-round guard Mike Johnson is a tough guy from Alabama who will fit right in with the Falcons’ style of linemen. He is insurance for Justin Blalock, who has one year left on his deal. Questionable move: I wasn’t enamored with first-round pick Sean Weatherspoon as much as the Falcons were. I think he’s a bit overrated. Third-day gem: Cornerback Dominique Franks from Oklahoma is a talented player. He does have some character issues. But he could push for time as a nickel corner. Analysis: They were hoping a defensive end fell to them in the first round, but when the top ends went they took Weatherspoon. The rest of the draft was mostly spent trying to improve the defense. They landed some solid players.”

♦ Clifton Brown, The Sporting News (B-minus): “Linebacker Sean Weatherspoon has a chance to fill a need. The defensive line could be improved if defensive tackle Corey Peters contributes, along with defensive tackle Peria Jerry, who missed last season with a knee injury. If they become better on defense, particularly against the pass, the Falcons could return to the playoffs.”

So those are some of the grades.

Care to grade the graders?

Earlier Falcons draft posts

Falcons’ additions will get them back into playoffs

Falcons still need linemen (and Weatherspoon video-palooza)

Weatherspoon helps Falcons fix the right side of the ball

Draft night (LIVE): Behind the scenes at Falcons’ HQ

Draft day (Part II): Tebow top 15, Morgan to Falcons?

Draft day (Part I): Falcon options; Berry rips Deion; Tebow to Vikes?

Follow me on Twitter @JeffSchultzAJC and on Facebook.com/JeffSchultzAJC

164 comments Add your comment

Samuel

April 26th, 2010
6:51 am

I think are defense will Improve this year by hook or crook. Being that said the Falcons will go as far as Matty Ice can take them. He has to play close to Peyton Manning and Drew Brees to get us to the big dance……………….

Required Reading | Hard Knox Sports

April 26th, 2010
7:47 am

[...] How did the “experts” rated the Falcons draft? [AJC] [...]

Biggdawg33

April 26th, 2010
7:54 am

I know everyone is fussing about not taking a TE, but the Falcons did sign Michael Palmer out of Clemson. This ATL guy made some sick catches in Death Valley and with Tony G. there to hopefully impart some wisdom, he could be a great TE.

Dave

April 26th, 2010
7:55 am

I have a good idea for you Jeff Shultz I think when we grade the current years draft class you should also re-grade the previous four years draft classes as well to see how these players actually pan out so we find out if players you expected to be good were and players panned turned out to be nice players. I think this might be a good column to do every year so fans will find out how good or bad these pundits did in there analysis also.

gman

April 26th, 2010
8:11 am

First off. Who cares what Kiper syas. I do NOT understand why anyone watches the guy. Has he EVER played the sport? He is the most overated egomaniacal excuse for a hair ad I’ve ever seen.

Having said that:

Has everyone watched the tape on our picks? TD KNOWS what he’s doing. Spoon will be a monster,
Corey will be a great replacement for Bab’s (who likely will be cut after he’s sentenced). Both guards are monsters and Blaylock was terrible last year. Meier has INCREDIBLE hands and will our Wes Welker.
I don’t have an opinion on Franks yet and I couldn’t find much on the Schiullinger kid but the others are startes waiting to happen.

GREAT JOB!!

Genius

April 26th, 2010
8:19 am

You have to believe that if DT asked Biermann about Shann Schillenger, that he would have had even more respect for Ryan’s opinion on his former center Tennant. My guess is that if Ryan had wanted him, he would have got him. Hawley is strong, agile, versatile and mean, and will be one of the best players we drafted in this class long term.

jerry

April 26th, 2010
8:24 am

The Falcons should have drafted Claussen with their 1st pick and then traded him out of the NFC South.

The Walrus

April 26th, 2010
8:37 am

These draftniks who are griping about the Falcons not getting a DE are the very same people who were *praising* the Falcons for the selection of Lawrence Sidbury *last* season. It doesn’t make sense. What’s changed since last year, when they were all heaping praise on Dimitroff for grabbing such a great sleeper?

Which mid-to-late DE (because there was no DE – not one – worth the number 19 pick) was going to be any better of an option *this* season than a player like Sidbury with a year already under his belt?

I’m not saying Sidbury (or Biermann, for that matter) is going to be the next coming of Reggie White (or Chuck Smith, for that matter) but a little perspective from these guys would be a breath of fresh air. You can’t fill every need in one draft, it just doesn’t work that way. And how about these draftniks give us, oh, say, at least a season to develop these sleepers everyone was so high on last year?

cajdawg

April 26th, 2010
8:40 am

I don’t understand why everyone is lining up to kiss TDs as$. I generally like him, but he is building a reputation before it is deserved. Ryan and Lofton are both above average, but neither has yet to make the probowl. TD has whiffed on every cornerback so far. P Jerry is undersized and had an injury history before he was drafted.

Peters may turn out to be a decent player, but is he any better than Thomas Johnson or Trey Lewis? That pick doesn’t make any sense in the 3rd round, maybe in the fourth or fifth. TD seems to have a poor sense of relative draft valuation, which isn’t as important as talent evaluation, but it is still important.

PlanB

April 26th, 2010
8:42 am

Jerry – you’re probably right. What a pick at(I beleive) 48 for our foe, Carolina. Another haunt will be Jimmy Graham TE that went to NO.
I hope our draft went better than I am able to comprehend. What was wrong with Matt Tennant?

Gen Neyland

April 26th, 2010
8:43 am

Prof

April 26th, 2010
8:43 am

You’re starting to take after Ledbetter! Edit and proof your work!

1) “need help at outline linebacker” – should be “outside linebacker”
2) “But the point…seen them play?” – there shouldn’t be a “?” there.

C’mon, you’re a professional writer – show it!

F-105 Thunderchief

April 26th, 2010
8:46 am

Every team is always one injury away from the backup being the starter. Justin Peele is a more-than-adequate backup for Gonzalez. It’s unreasonable to expect to be two-deep with Pro Bowlers at every position.

F-105 Thunderchief

April 26th, 2010
8:48 am

Prof, we’ll know for sure if he makes the correction and then deletes your post.

James Bond

April 26th, 2010
8:55 am

The Falcons brass must have seen Diamonds are Forever before the draft……………..Peter Franks…………how else would they come up with that combination???????????

Jeff Schultz

April 26th, 2010
8:57 am

Shawn — Somebody on ESPN really said that? Ouch.

Jeff Schultz

April 26th, 2010
8:59 am

Crabapplejoe — Can’t speak for Sidbury but I thought Biermann really showed something as a pass rusher last season.

Jeff Schultz

April 26th, 2010
8:59 am

Thanks, Falcon34

Jeff Schultz

April 26th, 2010
9:00 am

Supes — Agreed. I also think 32 teams in the NFL have a similar list of “ifs”

Jeff Schultz

April 26th, 2010
9:01 am

Athens Bird — Kiper=Eddie Munster. I like it.

Jeff Schultz

April 26th, 2010
9:05 am

First — I looked at the tape and you weren’t first. Sorry, that’s no subjective. But let’s see how you develop.

Clay

April 26th, 2010
9:08 am

Prof, get a life . . .

Jeff Schultz

April 26th, 2010
9:09 am

Cajdawg — It’s not about kissing anybody’s a**. It’s about giving the benefit of the doubt to a guy who’s done a pretty good job in his two years. Success provides you with the benefit of the doubt, failure doesn’t.

Jeff Schultz

April 26th, 2010
9:10 am

Dave — Same thought passed through my mind 2 days ago. May do it, if not as a column then at least as a blog.

DHD

April 26th, 2010
9:14 am

I grade the AJC an “F” for constantly writing articles about former ATL players.

suwaneedawg

April 26th, 2010
9:17 am

Good article Jeff. I agree that people like Kiper are like movie critics. The movies they grade as fantastic usually suck and the ones they deem not watchable make big money. You are not sure what you have until you get them on the practice field. Like politics, everyone wants to give their “expert” opinion.

Clay

April 26th, 2010
9:18 am

Jeff, you sure there isn’t some “hair jealousy” going on with you regarding Kiper?

Haha. I hate to watch ESPN this time of year cause he’s on there every 30 minutes, usually rolling his eyes and shaking his head at Todd McShay’s comments. He was about to wig out Thu nite over his “boy” Clausen having to wait so long.

No One Knows You're a Dawg

April 26th, 2010
9:22 am

“Who watches the Watchmen?”

Kiper in his mock drafts and post-draft analysis is all about teams selecting the player he thinks they should select at the place he thinks they should select them. If a GM does what Kiper says he should do, then Mel loves him. If not, Kiper hates the pick. Ultimately, it’s not about the player or the team; it’s all about Kiper.

Of course, this means at times the GMs make Kiper look foolish. It was very entertaining watching Kiper when Tebow (who Kiper didn’t like) got selected while Clausen (who Kiper had as the 5th best player in the draft) fell like a stone.

I mock the NFL Draft analysis

April 26th, 2010
9:26 am

a big fat D, with Weatherspoon getting the only A

Daniel Bell

April 26th, 2010
9:26 am

True story: Mel Kiper adovcated the idea that Ryan Leaf should have been picked before Peyton Manning.

This alone should have killed his creditability.

Sick & TIred Of Being Sick & TIred

April 26th, 2010
9:27 am

THANKS for this article. Maybe some of the “EXPERTS” that have been responding to the Falcon’s blog the last couple of days will go do something constructive with their time instead of ranting about how bad the Falcon’s draft choices have been this year.

The way I figure it….if “THEY” excelled at identifying good NFL draft talent, they would “ACTUALLY” be doing it for an NFL team. As the article has implied…..since you don’t know WTF you’re talking about go sit down and take your hands off your keyboard and wait until you actually see these new players on the field before you deem them to be a bad choice or a bust

Chop Buster

April 26th, 2010
9:28 am

I think it’s ludicrous for someone to think they can develop a draft board (without knowing every teams schemes/needs) and develop a list of players that they “think” should be the player taken by that team.

It’s like taking a whiz in the wind…you don’t know where it will end up. LOL

That being said, Kiper, McShay and all the other draft gurus get a fat “F” from me for trying to be a psychic.

Steve Jones

April 26th, 2010
9:29 am

I like the draft and like how Dimitrof thinks. Only time will tell if we did the right thing by not grabbing a DE in the 2nd or 3rd round. I’ll take our GM’s word for it afterall, he’s the expert and he’s the professional of his craft.
I’m still of the opinion that Mularkey’s playcalling better get more exciting, and less conservative, this year. The injuries to our team and his lame play calling did not help our chances last year. That, and we’d better have a reliable place kicker.
Let’s trust the team leaders who want nothing more than we do..
A Super Bowl Win.

PMC

April 26th, 2010
9:38 am

Every year we hope and beg for depth on the lines we finally get some and we don’t like who it was.

Personally the more I know of these guys the more I like them. I love picking up Peek and Palmer too. Both should be good blockers and have some ability to be that TE that leaks out and catches a TD as the 3rd or even 4th option. We’ve seen it before from Matt Ryan to Jason Rader etc.

It’s just great and a little strange that we have such good leadership in town. A clear vision and focus where there hasn’t really been one before for more than a few years at a time.

Real UT

April 26th, 2010
9:51 am

I personally really liked the Falcons draft. I always think its a good sign for a team when the picks are not your prototypical “sexy” pick- this perhaps the only time sexy is used to describe gigantic men- like a RB, QB, WR. I think depth was a huge factor at DT last year, and the Falcons have needed another good linebacker. It will be fun to watch Witherspoon and Lofton develop at the LB position. I think the Falcons were able to sure up depth at positions that were exposed by better teams via giving up sacks, not getting sacks, giving up yards on the ground late in close games, and pass coverage in general. The later was addressed with Dunta Robinson’s FA signing. Also, I’m going to start looking for the Titans and Falcons scouts at the D I-AA championship game in my hometown of Chattanooga. Both teams have drafted a few guys from Montana, which has played their the last 2 years at least.

1eyedJack

April 26th, 2010
9:54 am

I’m willing to bet the house that TD and CMS have watched more tape of and conducted more workouts of the draft elegible players than all of the pundits on the ESPN draft panel combined. I’m sure too that they have watched their own film of games and practices and would know where the problems lie with the Falcons, and would know better how to address them than Kiper, McShay, or Joe Blow.

I mock the NFL Draft analysis

April 26th, 2010
9:58 am

quote from Pittsburgh newspaper on drafting Jon Dwyer, Falcons idiots for not taking him

“The Steelers drafted another wishbone back well into the draft 20 years ago when Barry Foster of Arkansas came to them in the fifth round.

All Foster did was set the Steelers’ record with 1,690 yards rushing in 1992.

“Not often do you find 230-pound halfbacks with his ability with the ball in his hands,” Wilson said.

Dwyer averaged more than 6 yards a carry at Georgia Tech.

“This kid’s broken a lot of long runs,” said Kevin Colbert, the Steelers’ director of football operations. “We think there’s something there we all haven’t seen yet.”

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10115/1053206-66.stm#ixzz0mDKVc

Sid

April 26th, 2010
10:05 am

Please don’t feed the trolls. Your responding to them is how they get off.

TheAntiMe

April 26th, 2010
10:09 am

I’ve never been impressed by Mel Kiper Jr., in the least. I grade him a P for being a preening pretentious pickle-puss poseur.

TommyJack

April 26th, 2010
10:16 am

Not an ESPN hater. But their draft coverage was the most miserably produced event ever on their network. First off, they had way too many guys on the panel. Second off, Berman looked like he would like to be elsewhere. Third off, Steve Young seemingly wanted to mug the camera. Too many egos. Sometimes, less is more.

OMG

April 26th, 2010
10:29 am

Overall….even if it turns out to be an effective draft…the Falcons picks were boring throughout! Guess all the local players from UGA and GT were not thought highly of? The falcons certainly could have traded down several times to get the players they coveted and picked up another pick or two! Allen or Burnett would have been decent additions to a weak secondary and provided some local fans to be happy. Just don’t like the players we got except maybe the Kansas player.

OMG

April 26th, 2010
10:30 am

This draft was more inline with the our drafts from the past when we could count on a good 6 wins or less.

Sid

April 26th, 2010
10:31 am

Coming Soon to a theater near you:

Leroy Banks, TE, Southern Miss, 6-foot-3, 243 pounds: Started his career at Coahoma Junior College.
Tim Buckley, QB, Alcorn State, 6-1, 185: Led the Braves vaunted attack last season.
Rafael Bush, S, South Carolina State, 5-11, 195: Was highly productive for the Bulldogs, making 222 career tackles and scored three touchdowns as a senior.
Gabe Derricks, S, San Diego, 6-3, 202: Started for four years at cornerback in college.
Justin Drescher, LS, Colorado, 6-1, 230: A four-year snapper for the Buffaloes.
Weston Johnson, LB, Wyoming, 6-3, 233: Played outside linebacker and was the team captain last season.
Dimitri Nance, RB, Arizona State, 5-9, 224: He rushed for 795 yards last season, but missed time with a shoulder sprain.
Ryan Wolfe, WR, UNLV, 6-1, 205: He caught more passes than any receiver in the nation over the past four years with 283 career receptions.
Bear Woods, LB, Troy, 6-0, 245: Had to sit out two games last season to appeal his redshirt status with the NCAA.

Dimitroff Supporter

April 26th, 2010
10:33 am

It’s nice not giving a crap what the “Experts” think.

North FLA Falcon

April 26th, 2010
10:41 am

I like Hawley. Another west coast pass blocker, like harvey dahl and hopefully just as nasty. His ability to long-snap also is important. We lost 2 games last year not because of muffed kicks but (in my opinion) because of bad snaps. Hopefully hawley can get the job done. Johnson from Alabama is a beast. Great pick. Also Corey Peters and the UK defensive line consistently beat the Gators talented O-line and gave Timmy T his concussion. If UK had had any offense it actually might have been a game. I like our draft, it should be a good season.

murfdawg

April 26th, 2010
10:48 am

Peter King of SI got 9 out of 32 right on his predictions. What kind of grade does he receive? Next year just predict all the players from fla, bama and okla as 1st rounders and you will probably do better than 9 out of 32.

ATL Fan

April 26th, 2010
10:51 am

Mr. Schultz, Regarding your multi-year grading of drafts, I think you should name it “Are They Who We Thought They Were?”

mountain_jim

April 26th, 2010
10:52 am

cajdawg – You and the rest of you know-it-alls who think TD could have / should have got Peters in round 4 or 5 read this from Peter King MMQB:

love these draft scenarios, in case you hadn’t noticed. Here’s another one: In Cleveland, midway through the third round, the Browns already had addressed cornerback, safety and running back; now they had two more priority positions to fill: defensive tackle and offensive tackle. They had picks 85 and 92. They had their two guys lined up from about the 70th pick on — Kentucky defensive tackle Corey Peters and Arizona State tackle Shawn Lauvao. In the draft room, president Mike Holmgren, GM Tom Heckert and coach Eric Mangini, along with a few of the scouts, monitored the draft. Colt McCoy kept sliding.

“I had talked to Jon Gruden about Colt and he really liked him,” Holmgren told me. “But Tom said we’ve got our plan, we like this defensive lineman and the offensive lineman, and we should go ahead and pick them. I kept saying, ‘What about the quarterback?’ ”

At number 83, two spots before the Browns were going to pick, Atlanta GM Dimitroff picked Peters, the defensive tackle the Browns had in their sights at 85. “Then,” Holmgren said, laughing, “the fates were telling me something. We had to pick him. I said to Tom, ‘Let’s pull the trigger.’ I tried to run this draft the way Ron Wolf used to in Green Bay. Everyone contributed. But I kind of pulled rank a little bit. I said, ‘Let’s do this.”’

[...] in my last post, I explained why grading teams for their draft was a stupid exercise. It takes at least three years, sometimes longer, to get an accurate read 0n how selections panned [...]

mountain_jim

April 26th, 2010
10:55 am

Again for you know-it-all clueless ‘fans’ – “At number 83, two spots before the Browns were going to pick, Atlanta GM Dimitroff picked Peters, the defensive tackle the Browns had in their sights at 85.”

Should have waited until 4th or 5th round, eh? You folks who think you know better make me laugh.