ACC doesn’t look deserving of several NCAA slots
Paul Hewitt hopes Tech is pointed up.
Mark Fox sticking up for the SEC.
After losing on a last-second shot at Maryland Saturday, Georgia Tech coach Paul Hewitt said his team is “starting to play our best basketball at the right time of the year,” which probably would instill a lot more confidence in the masses if the Jackets weren’t in seventh place in the ACC — or least what remains of it — and threatening to become one of the most talented teams ever to miss the NCAA Tournament.
The calendar turns to March next week. Once again, “Madness” has taken on the wrong meaning in the state of Georgia.
This is one of the most talent-rich states in the land. But we’re starting to look like paupers peering through the gates at the NCAA Tournament again. The Jackets may yet get in. But at 6-7 in the ACC — which has only one team ranked in the nation’s top 22 — and with two wins over North Carolina suddenly looking just slightly more significant than the ones over Chattanooga and Arkansas-Pine Bluff, should anybody really feel that confident?
Loading ...Seriously, how many teams should the ACC qualify? There are six teams ahead of the Jackets in the ACC with winning conference records. What has the conference done to deserve more than, say, four getting in?
According to various websites, the ACC’s collective RPI, which is an index combining winning percentage, opponents’ winning percentage, etc., ranks third nationally. That’s behind the Big 12 and Big East. The SEC is fourth. In strength-of-schedule RPI rankings, the SEC actually is ahead of the ACC.
The SEC also has three teams (Kentucky, Vanderbilt, Tennessee) to the ACC’s one (Duke) in the top 20 in RPI. Tobacco Road and Hoops dominance just don’t intersect this season.
As Georgia coach Mark Fox said Saturday after his team rallied to defeat Alabama, “It’s not like the ACC is running away with anything this year.”
Fox would not get into a which-conference-is-better argument. But he said, “If you just look at our [SEC East] division, Florida, Tennessee, Vanderbilt and Kentucky all deserve to be in it. I don’t think you can even say they’re on the bubble. In the upper half of the ACC, I don’t know if they are as strong as we are, just in our division. I’d have to really look at that.”
What you don’t want to look at is how Georgia schools rank in RPI among the nation’s 347 Division I basketball programs. According to the most up-to-date numbers in teamrankings.com, Georgia Tech is 31st in RPI among state teams. The Yellow Jackets are followed by Georgia (94), Mercer (229), Georgia State (245), Georgia Southern (279), Kennesaw State (294) and Savannah State (316).
(Off on a tangent: We wish Bill Curry and Georgia State good luck in this new venture called football. But it’s a lot easier to build a winning program quicker in college basketball, just because of the sheer numbers in recruiting. If Georgia State suddenly is committed to athletics, here’s the question: How much time does coach Rod Barnes get? His seasons so far: 9-21, 12-20, 12-17, including 5-13, 8-10 and 5-11 in conference.)
The team rankings’ website also spits out a daily projection of the NCAA Tournament bracket. Those projections are being kind to the ACC. As of early Sunday, the site is putting seven ACC teams into the postseason bracket, including the Jackets, and only four SEC schools in. But the projected ACC seeds are low: Tech would be in as a 12th seed in the South, according to the site, Virginia Tech and FSU as 10th seeds and Clemson as a ninth.
Georgia forward Travis Leslie, who was recruited by Tech, North Carolina and Clemson in the ACC, said, “We have a lot of good teams in this conference. But I guess we still don’t get a lot of respect or attention. Hopefully we can get some more teams into the tournament. I know it seems like the ACC is falling apart.”
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
112 comments Add your comment
Jim Harrick
February 21st, 2010
10:33 pm
Hey Ron…I know Tech is an aweful team, but do you really believe UGA would beat them on a neutral floor? I think not.
Tech in the Tournament?
February 21st, 2010
10:39 pm
Why reward sorry effort? The only ACC teams who should be allowed near the tournament are it’s ranked team and no other.
Paul in RDU
February 21st, 2010
11:14 pm
Timmy understands the issue with the unbalanced schedule – this is not the same ACC regular season as pre-expansion when every team played a home and away round robin. You can have a worse regular season record than teams who are not as good as you. The Big East (16 teams – only play 3 teams 2x) has this problem in spades
GT will get in the NCAA – 8-8 will definitely get them in, 7-9 probably will. UGA gets to sit at home. You need a winning record for the NIT and the CBI will not invite them.
FullMetalJacket
February 21st, 2010
11:14 pm
The ACC is clearly down this year, and Georgia Tech (due largely to Paul Hewitt) is a big reason it hasn’t been stronger the past few years. This season in particular Tech’s talent should have prevailed to be at least in the top tier of the conference, instead halfway down the ranks. NCAA Tourney or not, Hewitt must be terminated. Tech’s RPI might get it in under the wire, but our history in the tournament the last five seasons wouldn’t get us any bonus points….and there isn’t a single home game (the only kind we seem to have a chance in) in the NCAA’s.
FullMetalJacket
February 21st, 2010
11:23 pm
It doesn’t even matter if Tech gets in the NCAA: they won’t get out of the first round. Short of a Final Four appearance, Tech alums aren’t going to travel to see a Hewitt-coached team in any tournament. He has burned us too bad, too often by putting unprepared teams and incompetent assistants on the floor and by not taking responsibility for his decisions and actions during the game. I have been a loyal supporter of Tech for years, and continue to give money to academic and selected athletic programs, but the basketball program and facilities won’t see another dime until DRad proves it will make a difference by making a change in leadership.
FullMetalJacket
February 21st, 2010
11:26 pm
Jeff,
Just wishful thinking at this point, but who might be some realistic successors to Hewitt, just in case he woke up with a conscience and resigned one day?
Paul in RDU
February 21st, 2010
11:39 pm
FMJ – Your point on alums giving up on Hewitt strikes me as being correct. I stayed with friends in ATL last weekend while I was travelling to NO for Mardi Gras. These folks have been season ticket holders in BB and FB for 30 years, give to the AT fund, etc. They come up to the Triangle every year for a FB game. They gave up on Hewitt a while ago. They also told me everyone who sits around them has done the same.
ga tech is a football school
February 21st, 2010
11:51 pm
GT is a football school but if they get invited to the 48, that is fine and if not, they will get over it…I will laugh if Roy Williams doesnt get his team in the tournament but it is not surprising..
matt r
February 22nd, 2010
12:21 am
The most accurate bracketologists have GT as a 10…
http://bracketology101.blogspot.com/
matt r
February 22nd, 2010
12:24 am
Also, you should be very cautious of projections spit out by computer rankings, especially RPI. The selection committee is not a computer ranking system.
Reality
February 22nd, 2010
3:33 am
Jeff –
You said that had those few last second shots not fallen we wouldn’t be here right now….
The Maryland loss was certainly a heartbreaker. But whether those shots fall or not, the REAL issue is that we shouldn’t have had them within a point with 3 seconds on the clock to begin with!!!!
It’s like in anything, how one play won’t lose the game (most of the time…..Luis Castillo of the Mets may beg to differ). If we were really as good as we’re supposed to be, we wouldn’t have been in that nail-biting situation to begin with.
If Tech finds some method to not win 2 NCAA Tourney games (i.e. not make the tourney, lose in one of the first two rounds), Paul Hewitt has GOT to be done. Let’s play over/under…….over/under 10 alumni checks it’ll take to get his sorry behind into the unemployment line?
disgruntled_g
February 22nd, 2010
6:42 am
Jeff, I generally enjoy you columns, and didn’t mind this one, but it didn’t seem well researched. All seven of the ACC teams alluded to have an RPI in the top 44, and like it or not, the selection committee relies heavily on these rankings. Furthermore, the entire ACC is playing 500 ball against the top 25 (this includes NC at 2-5). Meanwhile, the SEC is 20-41, (this includes 6-0 Kentucky). Granted, the ACC doesn’t have a powerhouse team this year, though the RPI likes Duke, but I don’t think the suggestion that the ACC is no better than the SEC is at all warranted. I agree that Tech has put itself in a bad situation despite a 31 RPI, and the Maryland loss was a heartbreaker, but the earlier losses were the ones that really hurt. Kudos to UGA for being 3-3 against the top 25 and to Mark Fox.
Marvin Mangrum
February 22nd, 2010
7:07 am
Mr Hewitt needs a job as a sandlot coach for a bunch of sorry players! Bye!
Required Reading | Hard Knox Sports
February 22nd, 2010
7:40 am
[...] How many ACC teams really deserve tourney bids? [AJC] [...]
big dog
February 22nd, 2010
8:01 am
Rocket is right on the money!! I love GT, but cannot stand to even watrch this undiciplined lot play on TV. Hell no they don’t deserve to go to the dance. .
Pick the Braves' leadoff hitter (and why not Escobar)? | Jeff Schultz
February 22nd, 2010
8:06 am
[...] Damon is a Detroit Tiger, which means his wife Michelle will have to settle for tanning on the banks of Lake Michigan and the Braves don’t have a lot of great options for a leadoff [...]
Let's Go
February 22nd, 2010
9:04 am
Jeff you really should stick to football or do some investigating before writing a story like this. I know you want to get the ACC verse SEC juices flowing but it’s just not here. Top to bottom the ACC is better than the SEC this year and really anyone who follows college basketball knows Vanderbilt is the most over rated ranked team. The only quality wins they have are against Tennessee and during their non-conf sked they played 4 real teams and they were 1 and 3 with the 1 win coming against the mighty DePaul (8-18). Tennessee on the other hand did beat Kansas but since then is 8 and 4 in the weak SEC. And the SEC West is just BAD across the board and South Carolina, the team that did beat Kentucky, 0 and 3 against the ACC this year losing to Miami, Clemson, & BC.
The ACC probably will get 5 teams this year but could get 6 depending on the tournament and how bad the Pac 10 is looked at. The SEC has 3 for sure but Flordia has a brutal end of season sked and Miss St hasn’t been that impressive so it could come down to one of those getting the last bid.
One thing that may hurt both conferences is how many teams Conf USA and Atlantic 10 get invitied this year. Both of these leagues are tough this year and could take away a spot from one or both.
brian
February 22nd, 2010
9:20 am
this is plan stupid. I’d be very confident with any of the top 10 in the ACC against the SEC. Mark Fox is close to sounding like Whiney Kiffin. The SEC has a couple of good teams but comes nowhere close to the depth through all teams. If Tech was in the SEC they would be a top 10 ranked team as they could easily blow through the bottom dwellers of the conference. There are no equivalent bottom dwellers in the ACC.
Gen Neyland
February 22nd, 2010
10:01 am
brian : Love your Go Get ‘Em attitude, but isn’t GT like, 0-1 vs SEC teams so far this year and the SEC team they lost to IS considered a bottom feeder by virture of it’s conference record..? Yeah, GT owns the SEC…
bruce mac
February 22nd, 2010
10:11 am
Yawn, who cares. Braves are in spring training. There is no BBall team in this state worth getting excited about Why would anyone get excited about getting into a tourney with no hope of succeeding?
Gen Neyland
February 22nd, 2010
10:12 am
One more something to rile the ACC’ers, but, I’m gonna step out on a limb and say I would not be the least bit surprised if no ACC team is in the Great 8 and maybe even the Sweet 16…
Reality Check
February 22nd, 2010
10:30 am
#11 in SEC beat #7 in ACC?????????
All you ACC apologists realize the conference is average at best. Your only contender the last few years (UNC) has gone into the tank after losing a couple of key players. The best team Duke got whacked by Georgetown by almost 20 points. There is NO team from the ACC with a chance to go to the final four. Duke has not been a serious contender for the last five years in the tournament. Kentucky, Tennessee and Vandy would probably be the top three teams in the ACC right now. There is a reason only one team is ranked in top 20, live with it UNC will be back next year to pick up the conference again.
Reality
February 22nd, 2010
10:34 am
Gen – That would be a very long and very weak and very lonely limb, indeed.
The ACC has always been the powerhouse. Every year there are nay-sayers that want to point out any small negative that they can about the ACC. However, the ACC teams always show up in the tourney. Does the ACC win it every year? That is not what I am saying. But, go back and look at winning percentages in the tourney and you will see that the ACC goes farther than any other conference.
This year, ALL teams in the ACC are very tough at home. That is the major reason there aren’t ACC teams with a 2 or 3 loss record. The ACC losses are primarily to other ACC teams that are played away. Can you really say that the conference is a ‘bad’ conference because of THAT?
The ACC will do just fine in the NCAA. Mark my words.
GPB
February 22nd, 2010
11:01 am
I don’t see why people are up in arms to defend the conference. We are one of the best balanced conferences in the league this year. Unfortunately, we as a conference also aren’t anything special. Look, I grew up with Duke/UNC parents in Winston Salem so I was given an unhealthy exposure to ACC hoops (probably also because football wasn’t mentioned in my household).
I love ACC basketball but you’re fooling yourself if we’re the best conference in the nation in recent history. Everyone has their gems every year but Big 12 or Big East deserve those honors for being the best. I like this breakdown of the stats this season: http://statsheet.com/mcb/conferences/stats/non_conf_games?season=2009-2010
Top to bottom nothing. I’d take the SEC top three over Duke. Our middle of the pack might be better (but it’s a crapshoot) and who knows about the bottom. I think we can agree LSU is the worst. But are UNC or NC State better than Auburn, Georgia, Alabama? I think Duke can make it to the Sweet 16 but that’s about it. They have no bench and will be punished by any team with a defense and solid bench.
UGA fans can keep heckling about beating Tech all they want but if you look at Tech teams on the road, they don’t win anyway. So you won at home just like most everyone else of relevance against us too. The UNC road win is meaningless (and we almost lost it) and the other wins this year are against nobodys. In fact, I’d say our last road win of real merit was against Wake Forest in 2008. That’s certainly exciting…
GPB
February 22nd, 2010
11:08 am
Reality, I don’t have a date on this article (http://www.secsportsfan.com/best-all-time-ncaa-basketball-conference-record.html and I think it’s through 2007) but it appears you are wrong. I doubt results from 2008 and 2009 could have put it closer for us but it could happen. Isn’t the internet great?
1. Big East – .619 (21,125 – 13,019) St. John’s leads with 1705 wins (#5 all-time)
2. ACC – .590 (14,789 – 10,289) North Carolina leads with 1914 (#2 all-time) wins; Duke — 1818 (#4 all-time)
3. Pac 10 – .580 (13,719 – 9,931) UCLA leads with 1530 wins; Oregon State — 1529
4. SEC – .57923 (15,236 – 11,068) The Kentucky Wildcats lead the nation with 1948 all time wins
5. Big Ten – .57918 (14,417 – 10,475) Indiana leads with 1555 wins
6. Big-12 – .566 (15,434 – 11,823) Kansas leads with 1906 wins (#3 all-time). Note the Big-12 is actually # 2 in all time wins, but # 6 in winning percentage.
hahahahaha!!!!!
February 22nd, 2010
11:23 am
The Yech implosion continues!!! Just another overrated Yech program going down in flames!!! No worries, soon enough you’ll be enjoying your always overrated baseball team enduring the same fate, LOL!!!!
I LOVE IT!!!!!
ACC = NCAA joke
February 22nd, 2010
11:25 am
Wow!!! You tools always at least had hoops to fall back on since you can’t compete in the man’s sport, but now you’re just as irrelevant in that as football? The ACC is the gift that keeps on giving!
Scoreboard Reminders
February 22nd, 2010
12:51 pm
1. 73-66
2. 30-24
3. BWWWWWAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAA
Scoreboard Reminders
February 22nd, 2010
12:54 pm
4. 55,000 (BBWWWAAHHHAAA) unfilled seats
5. 60-39-5
6. Free Hotdogs and Cokes – >>>>you win in the free food to attend category<<<<
Turnt up!
February 22nd, 2010
1:19 pm
Fox should STFU and concentrate on his abysmal Bulldog team. I know they have low standards up there in Athens, but his record is pathetic and is no position to talk about any other league. How about just coach your team and get some wins…
ACC doesn't look deserving of several NCAA slots | Jeff Schultz Mobile
February 22nd, 2010
1:20 pm
[...] ACC doesn't look deserving of several NCAA slots | Jeff Schultz Greek capitalism; a tragedy in several parts » Freedom Press – The …Several Ways to Transport Garbage in China – VisbooCollege Basketball Betting Lines & Odds: Georgia Tech at Miami …College Basketball Betting Lines & Odds: Ohio State at Indiana …Odds and Ends — Another Piece of the PuzzleCollege Basketball Betting: Georgia Tech at Duke Odds and Picks …NCAA Basketball Odds: Georgia Tech at Duke – Bodog BeatChina To Allow More Foreign-Made Wind Turbine Parts | Eco Friendly MagSF News: Mayor Newsom Receives Commitment from CAISO to Allow …WI: Proposed law would allow more access to records on licensed … View the Contact Powered by Mobile [...]
Scoreboard Reminders
February 22nd, 2010
2:32 pm
Turnt out should worry about 73-66 from a “pathetic” team
Trek is awful at everything, except dungeons and dragons
GT supporter
February 22nd, 2010
2:34 pm
Best if GT misses NCAA, maybe it will force the firing of Hewitt. At the least, it will not let Tech fans get excited before 1st round lost to a team with less talent. Doesn’t really matter, cannot stand to watch a Hewitt ‘coached’ team any longer.
GSU
February 22nd, 2010
2:38 pm
Georgia State will turn this ship around and succeed in football. For more panthers talk… http://www.panthertalk.com/forums/forum.php
Let's Go
February 22nd, 2010
3:10 pm
All you SEC faithful can jump on Calipari’s coat tails for giving the conference a glimmer of hope. If the NCAA, or the NBA, ever does something about the one and doners Calipari is finished as a college coach because there is no way he can keep a player eligible for 3 years. Allowing these kids to play one year without attending classes has also helped many teams in the Big 12 the last 5 years so it’s no big shocker they are the top conference. These kids know where to go to school to do nothing but get ready for the NBA. Personally I love watching Roy Williams losing so many games this year but give him credit, he and Coach K at Duke do seem to be able to keep most of their kids around for 3 and 4 years.
rational observer
February 22nd, 2010
3:21 pm
The sad thing is, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever why UGA and GT do not win at least one championship in each of the big 3 sports every decade.
FOX IS DA' MAN!!!
February 22nd, 2010
3:24 pm
Hahahahaha!!!!! I love it!!! Mark Fox already talking trash about the All Chumps Conference!!!! I love it!!!!
the sinking ship continues
February 22nd, 2010
3:26 pm
Wow….I think it’s seriously time to ditched the ACC as a “major” conference and swap them out with the Mountain West, MAC or WAC. The ACC is an absolute joke and an embarrassment to southerners everywhere.
Rainy night in Ga.
February 22nd, 2010
3:30 pm
Heres to hoping that tech misses Big Dance and then fires Peeeeeuuwitt. Where is the fundraising for his buyout…comon ppl, carwashes, bake sales, anything….we got to get this done and get him outta here. CPH has proven u can win at Tech consistently,…… as long as you know what ur doing.
Rainy night in Ga.
February 22nd, 2010
3:32 pm
BTW….ten yrs coaching and only one yr @ 9-7 in conference, 2 yrs at 8-8, the rest are lsoing records……look at the talent CPH has wasted. And now favors decides to show up …..with 3 games left….pluuease enuff with the one and dones. OOps meant CPJ in earlier post….sorry.
Mark
February 22nd, 2010
4:06 pm
I’m a huge Tech and ACC fan, but right now, the best hoops in the land is being played in the Big East. And that’s ok, because I always liked that conference in hoops too.
ACC
February 22nd, 2010
4:10 pm
= Mid Major
CC
February 22nd, 2010
4:17 pm
So what’s the point here? It’s clear that the SEC East’s top 3 are good this year, but Florida is nothing special and the SEC West is really weak. It’s a top-heavy conference overall, and once you get past the top 3-4 teams the ACC is much stronger.
Joe Lunardi (bracketology), Rivals, the ESPN/USA Today poll, and Sagarin rankings are very consistent: They list the SAME SEVEN ACC teams as being deserving, and the SAME 4-5 SEC teams.
Those seven ACC teams — Duke, Wake Forest, Maryland, Clemson, Florida State, Virginia Tech, and Georgia Tech have earned their rankings: Can you find enough better, more deserving teams to leave them out? Consider their body of work, not just one or two particularly good or bad games.
Unlike Florida and Miss State, the above seven ACC teams all received votes in the current ESPN/USA Today poll (about 45 teams) and are in the top 50 in the Rivals poll. ALL SEVEN of these teams are ahead of Florida and Miss State teams in Rivals’ RPI and Sagarin’s rankings, with just the top 3 and 4 SEC teams among the top 50 there, respectively. The AP poll also has more ACC teams receiving votes.
GT has been very inconsistent, and yes, underachieving considering their talent level. Hewitt is not a good coach, period. But they have several good wins to go with a few bad losses. They’ve beaten Charlotte on the road, beaten Wake handily, beaten Duke, etc. They’ve beaten more top 50 teams than many, many, NCAA candidates.
Yes UNC is having a really bad season (only lost to Kentucky by 2 at Rupp) and the ACC has had better years, but if you leave out some of the above 7 ACC teams, you’d have to leave out Florida and Mississippi State too. Those consensus #4 and #5 teams for the SEC certainly haven’t done any better, according to the criteria shown by all of these polls/services.
CC
February 22nd, 2010
4:25 pm
Bottom line: GT should be doing much better. And the UGA game was their worst loss of the year. But once you seed all of the automatic qualifiers, GT is still among the most deserving teams to fill out the field of 65 right now. They need to hold serve during those last two home ACC games, but they’ve done that so far. (They have one home loss all year, which was in OT.)
UGA is deserving of an NIT bid, along with other SEC teams who couldn’t manage to be in the top 5 for that conference this year.
James
February 22nd, 2010
4:51 pm
Yech is an absolute joke just like their sorry a$$ conference
The WRECK, indeed
February 22nd, 2010
5:10 pm
I think it’s time to pull the plug on all Tech sports. It’s beyond painful to watch now
BravesFan79
February 22nd, 2010
5:58 pm
Even tho GT might be a 12 seed … i see them playing like a 3 or 4 seed if we get good guard play with few turnovers. Go GT!
Paul's the man?
February 22nd, 2010
9:01 pm
Just in case you were wondering, since the league expanded to 12 teams (2005-6 season) here is the up to date total regular season ACC wins by team. Of course, GT is in last place. By the way, if you add tournament wins, GT is still in last place. No wonder why all the other ACC coaches have nothing but great things to say about CPH.
REGULAR SEASON Total Wins
Duke 57
North Carolina 53
Maryland 42
Clemson 40
Florida State 40
Boston College 38
Virginia Tech 38
Wake Forest 34
Virginia 32
Miami 29
N.C. St 28
Georgia Tech 27
Ha-Ha
February 22nd, 2010
9:15 pm
My understanding is that CPH unconditionally gets his 5 year contract rolled over each April (in effect making it a lifetime contract) and gets a 150K raise to boot! Even Coach K does not have that good of a deal in writing.
If they have had the least amount of ACC wins in 5 years, leave it to Tech to be so loyal to a grossly overpaid coach who has so badly underperformed.
Tech Forever
February 22nd, 2010
11:48 pm
It’s simple. If Tech is one of the best 32 teams in the RPI after the conference champions have been removed then Tech should be in the NCAA Tournament….period. I, personally, do not think Tech is one of the top 32 (after champions) teams in the country.
Now, speaking in terms of what the committee will do, the ACC will get 4 teams in tops. The Big East and Big 12 will each get between 6 and 8.