Braves need to make a run at Johnny Damon
How much better would Braves' lineup be with Johnny Damon?
So I listened to Braves general manager Frank Wren on 790 The Zone Wednesday morning, hearing him touch on many of the same themes he said two weeks ago when I spoke to him about the team’s offseason moves, and he concluded, “I think we’re better.”
I don’t agree. Most don’t agree. When a team adds Billy Wagner, Troy Glaus and Melky Cabrera and subtracts Javier Vazquez, Rafael Soriano and Mike Gonzalez, the math doesn’t work out.
If Wren really wants to convince people the Braves will be better this season, here’s an idea: sign Johnny Damon.
Barring any significant move, this team has three significant questions going into the season: Leadoff hitter (Nate McLouth), cleanup hitter (Glaus) and closer (Wagner). McLouth looked average for most of last season. Glaus and Wagner represent medical roulette.
I haven’t written much on Damon in
Loading ...part because it was presumed he would simply re-sign with the New York Yankees and, with Scott Boras as his agent, he would ask for an obscene amount of money on the open market. But he’s still out there, with spring training a month away. The asking price — once believed to be in the two-year, $14 million range — almost certainly has come way down.
The Braves are at their self-imposed payroll limit ($90 million). But there’s a difference between being fiscally smart and just plain cheap. Adding Damon makes the Braves better. If they’re better, they win more games and sell more tickets. Maybe they even make the playoffs.
Now there’s a concept.
The Braves have not had a legitimate leadoff hitter since Rafael Furcal left town after the 2005 season. That’s also the last season they made the playoffs. Funny how that works out.
When I asked Wren about Damon a couple of weeks ago, he said only, “We like the way our club has come together.”
How can that be with so many questions? Damon is 36. He is not a long-term solution. This is about now. He hit .282 last season with an on-base percentage of .365. He also tied a career-high with 24 homers (granted, aided by the short right field in new Yankee Stadium) and had 82 RBI, third-most in his career. McLouth could still start in center field. Damon could play in left. Jason Heyward: right field. Melky Cabrera? We’ve got your resume, we’ll get back to you.
The Braves have questions, and right now Wren is just counting on too many things going right. Damon eliminates one of the doubts.
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305 comments Add your comment
Ray Pugh
January 20th, 2010
2:23 pm
Greg–Joe Morgan? Is that you? A “proven winner??” You just made me spit all over my keyboard. Damon is on his last legs–his offensive numbers were purely a product of New Yankee Stadium (Coors Field East) and hitting in that lineup. The reason we didn’t get a “big bat” this offseason (well, we did, even though you morons are completely unaware of Troy Glaus’ potential) is that there simply wasn’t one that could be obtained w/out mortgaging our future…
Brave Heart
January 20th, 2010
2:23 pm
I liked ‘ol Knucksie too. And Sputnik Monroe.
Bobby's Cox
January 20th, 2010
2:25 pm
uga,
because Melky is still only 25. Most players get stronger and gain more power as they reach 26-29. Damon is 36, on the back end of his career. Melky is cheap, still a prospect in some regards. He’s fast, covers more ground in the OF, and has a very strong arm compared to Damon. Just saying, that could have something to do with it, and the whole fact that Melky is being so written-off by the Atlanta media and fans. Give the guy a break. He’s not that bad of a ballplayer. Better than Francouer, Anderson, and Church, with way more potential. Plus he can hit from the right side where most of our outfielders & outfield prospects do not (McLouth, Heyward, Schafer)
Jon l
January 20th, 2010
2:26 pm
Jeff, what I don’t understand is how frank wren thinks that were better now than we were at the end of the 2009 season, yeah were prob better than we were at the start of 2009 but who cares about that. We traded our best hitter after the allstar break for a guy coming off major surgery and if it’s about money or length of contract then why not offer arbitration. We traded a top 10 pitcher for a fourth o.f and a good prospect 3 years away from helping. Why not just say we traded our best pitcher to save 12 mil in 2010. Maybe he has limited funds but it seems like with our farm system we could trade some package for a good proven bat, It seems like Bobby deserves that. But what do I know I’m just a fan.
Ray Pugh
January 20th, 2010
2:27 pm
Kristen,
I was going to ask you out before I read you’re a Yankees fan
STILL LAUGHING @ TEBOW
January 20th, 2010
2:34 pm
jeff you answered your own question…THE BRAVES ARE CHEAP!!!!!
Tremaine
January 20th, 2010
2:35 pm
Sluggo, great point. I know I am not excited about going to see a Braves game.
David Putty
January 20th, 2010
2:35 pm
Gotta support the team!
Alonzo
January 20th, 2010
2:44 pm
I look forward to the season, because we can then stop blaming Wren for our lousy team and start blaming Bobby Cox and the players. Hey, at least diversity will alleviate the monotony.
Jon l
January 20th, 2010
2:46 pm
And can someone please explain to frank wren that everybody that has a realistic chance of making the playoffs has at least one guy that can hit 30 plus homers. We don’t have one player that can hit 25 on a consistent basis. Most teams either have power or speed but somehow we have neither. I think we have a lot of good players but we were in my opinion one big bat away from being a real contender at the end of last year, now were prob 2 or 3. Instead of spending 5 or 6 mil on a platoon in left and 3 or 4 on a hope of someone staying healthy at first, why not spend 10 on a solid left or first baseman and give a young guy a chance at the other. It costs the same and the risk vs reward is much greater. Please someone explain this to frank wren for future seasons bc I know he likes to make all these trades to prove how smart he is.
Tremaine
January 20th, 2010
2:52 pm
Notice how many times the optimistic fans use the word if.
bvillebaron
January 20th, 2010
2:53 pm
Jon I, Schultz and others:
Wren is right, the Braves are better now than last year. Despite his career year last year, Vazquez has not and is not as good a pitcher as Tim Hudson (compare their lifetime stats). Even with the loss of Vazquez, the Braves rotation is still the best in the NL East. Also, instead of letting Hudson walk and get nothing in return, the Braves traded Vazquez (who will be a free agent next year) and got a young and versatile, if not star, OF in Cabrera, a hard throwing left handed middle reliever who my friend who is a diehard Yankee fan says was going to be given every oppotunity to assume Phil Coke’s rule this year in the bullpen and a top notch pitcher who was the Yankees 3rd best prospect in return. I am still optimistic about Schaefer’s potential, but does anyone seriously believe Cabrera is not a better player than Jordan now? Sure, Glaus was hurt last year, but he did return at the end of the year and is a high reward low risk guy who is a right handed power hitter. He also is signed to a 1 year deal so as to not burden the team financially going forward if, as hoped, Freeman is ready in 2011. (I know Kotchman is a good fielder, but he hs no power). Hinske is a very versatile player who can play both corner infield spots (i.e. play when Chipper inevitably misses some games this year) and both corner outfield spots. He also is projects as a valuable PH. Many prefer Gonzo and Soriano over Wagner and Saito because the latter are deemed to be injury risks. Gonzo and Soriano have both missed substantial time due to arm injuries and a Gonzo/Soriano combo is nowhere near as good as a Wagner/Saito combo.
Vincent
January 20th, 2010
2:55 pm
I’m a Yankees fan living in Atlanta and you can’t pass up on Damon if you can get him. He is an extremely low-risk player in terms of years and the total his contract would be now that he is desperate.
Damon has shown that he can be healthy throughout his whole career and there has never been a question about his work ethic or heart. You absolutely make this deal if you can. His only weakness is his arm but he’d make up for that with what he brings at the plate. I don’t understand how Braves fans laud the “talent” of a guy like Jeff Francoeur but when you have the opportunity to get a proven WINNER, you’d rather have AAA players who haven’t shown anything.
Ray Pugh
January 20th, 2010
2:56 pm
Thank you bville!
Marty
January 20th, 2010
3:03 pm
BravesFan101, your posts indicates that if the Braves were put together “right” (or correctly) that the only difference in their current lineup is that Damn would bat leadoff? Really? Damon is the missing ingredient? I doubt that will make a difference. i wonder what the VORP for Damon vs Heyward (entire season) would be. I admit that I would take Damon for the same price the Yankees are willing to pay, $2M, but I doubt that happens.
Also, Prado is not batting 5th and Glaus is not batting 7th. Glaus was signed to bat 4th between Chipper and Big Mac.
McLouth
Prado
Chipper
Glaus
McCann
Escobar
Melky/Diaz/Heyward (LF and RF)
This looks pretty good to me. I think we’re set up to win as many games as last season, no worse, and with a few more bouces our way we’ll be in position to take the WC. Think about…Medlen and JoJo will not be making scheduled starts (remember that guy Hanson), Schaefer will not be striking out 3-4 times a game (although I think he’s ready in 2012), and Chipper seems to have a “chip” on his shoulder. If we can avoid that horrible month we’ve had the past few years we’ll have a chance at 90 wins. Just my opinion.
Dan
January 20th, 2010
3:03 pm
Do all of you out there who are saying “Get Damon cheaply” realize that Damon’s agent is Scott Boras? You cannot use Scott Boras and the word “cheap” in the same sentence.
RPW
January 20th, 2010
3:05 pm
Javy will not be for them as he was for us…Melky could be much better.
Damon needs a designated thrower…
Pretty one dimensional and a liability in the field
Marty
January 20th, 2010
3:08 pm
Rowland’s Office is a great Blog site. Chec out the Braves 2009 vs 2010 opinion…http://rowlandsoffice.wordpress.com/. Not the doom and gloom “many” seem to think.
Mike in Smyrna
January 20th, 2010
3:09 pm
I agree with Marty on his point that position by position the 2010 Braves as they are now are better than the 2009 Braves as they were at this point last season. If we do sign Damon it will be because no one else will and his price will have dropped into something we can afford. If we do thats great I think he can help. If not we will rely heavily on Heyward coming up and making an immediate impact as well as Glaus and Chipper having big years.
Marty
January 20th, 2010
3:10 pm
Chekc out Bleacher Report…http://ow.ly/Y04K. There are a ton of assumptions, most are not far fetched. But, again, “most” think the Braves suck.
Tremaine
January 20th, 2010
3:11 pm
I think we can get Damon for 7 million. If we can give Melky 3.1 after he was an after thought in the Yankees lineup. Why not?
ugaaccountant
January 20th, 2010
3:13 pm
“Bobby’s Cox
because Melky is still only 25. Most players get stronger and gain more power as they reach 26-29.”
True, his scouting report suggests a little additional power is in his future. But he’s going from hitters heaven to a pitchers park. Cancels out doesn’t it?
“Damon is 36, on the back end of his career.”
True, but i’m looking at him as a leadoff guy for .280, .350 obp, 12 homers and a few steals. Something like that. He’s a professional hitter and isn’t going to lose his batting average overnight. Same reason I figure Chipper will rebound in Avg and OBP this year, he has a sound approach even as his power dwindles away.
“Melky is cheap”
3 million for Melky, probably 4M+ next year. Damon is being rumoured at under 5M. Those figures are getting awfully close.
“Melky’s still a prospect in some regards.”
Yeah to a small degree, but he’s been a big leaguer for a significant time now too.
“He’s fast, covers more ground in the OF, and has a very strong arm compared to Damon.”
Klesko, Chipper, Loaf. We’re talking about LF not center. It’s frankly not that important to play good defense there. I weight defense at no more than 10% of a players value, unless they are total outliers to the positive or negative. Damon’s arm is a negative outlier which I am factoring in, but Melky is run of the mill on defense and isn’t getting any special points from me. For instance defensively I’d rather see McLouth or Schaefer out there than Melky.
“Just saying, that could have something to do with it, and the whole fact that Melky is being so written-off by the Atlanta media and fans. Give the guy a break He’s not that bad of a ballplayer. Better than Francouer, Anderson, and Church”
He’s a worse all around player than any of them at their average as a Brave. Frenchy had a rough patch, but he’s now a 5 million dollar player who put up a .300 average with better power than Melky after he was traded, and a better arm on defense. Anderson put up better offensive numbers than Melky last year, defensively though he is DH material now. Church yeah he’s roughly equivalent to Melky offensively, but you are disrespecting him by acting like he’s far inferior.
“with way more potential.”
Don’t exagarate his potential, he’s not projected to be anything significantly more than what he is now.
“Plus he can hit from the right side where most of our outfielders & outfield prospects do not (McLouth, Heyward, Schafer)”
He hits for the same crappy numbers from either side of the plate. If he was a Hinske or a Diaz with great splits, that would be nice for a platoon, but Melky isn’t some savior from the right side of the plate. Sure it’s nice enough to use him to split up a string of LH batters, except that’s not going to happen because he’ll be hitting 8th most games.
Jon l
January 20th, 2010
3:15 pm
Bvillebaron,
I agree that we are better now than this time last year but what wren done this offseason to improve this club besides extending huddys contract. Your telling me that you would rather have glaus over laroache and yeah vazquez prob want put up the same numbers next year as this year but if he would have stayed in the nl where lineups are not as good whose to say he would not have duplicated his 2009 stats. All I’m saying is if you sign bay to play left, I know he is expensive but he is a given to hit .275 35hr and drive in 100 RBI then our line up is good enough to compete with anyone even without javy, but maybe were going to be the first team this century to win the pennant without a player with 30 hr or 30 sb.
Hopeful Braves Fan
January 20th, 2010
3:16 pm
Trade Escobar for Jose Reyes! (I know, in my dream world) But seriously we need a big-time leadoff hitter. Damon is okay (certainly better than what we got now). But why didn’t the Braves actually make this a pursuit this offseason & in the years previously.
Bravos33
January 20th, 2010
3:18 pm
I dont understand how we can talk about Damon as this great leadoff hitter when he didn’e even bat leadoff last season! He hit 2nd BEHIND Jeter. Jeter was a 2-hole guy for 10 solid years before he was moved to the leadoff spot because Damon had evolved into a guy who hit the ball well into the hole between 1st and 2nd and was much more pull happy (he was always somewhat of a pull hitter). i dont think Damon is a bad move, but certainly not that much of an upgrade.
Also, we cannot give up on McClouth. This guy may not be a leadoff hitter, but he can definitely be a 25 hr guy with 20 plus steals and play solid defense. Depending on where he is in the lineup he could drive in a lot of run and/or score a bunch of runs. Nate can play! Damon can too, but may not be necessary. I say we save that money we supposedly have to spend and use it to sure up the team either midseason, or if we have an injury in the spring or early season that gives us an obvious glaring weakness. Just my opinion.
El Bravo
January 20th, 2010
3:20 pm
I don’t know Jeff. Damon’s power surge was a function of the stadium (him being left-handed hitting at the new Yankee Launch-pad). He is an aging outfielder with below average defensive skills and a noodle for an arm. Yes he is still a pretty good leadoff hitter but I don’t think he will be significantly better this year than Nate McClouth. The best course of action is to start the season with Melky and bring Jayson up to the Majors when he is ready…
bobbymahlon
January 20th, 2010
3:24 pm
Come on now lets not have too many players that are well past their prime. We already have too many guys that nobody wants because their best days are behind them and that doesn’t make for winning teams.
steve
January 20th, 2010
3:28 pm
We need Damon to lead off and in order to make money we need to spend some money, the Vasques trade was a steal for the Yankees and Wren needs to counter his bad move with a good one, without a true lead off hitter we will be lucky to win 88 games which will not make the playoffs , McClouth is not a lead off hitter period.
Robert
January 20th, 2010
3:29 pm
I have a simple and surefire way for the Braves to be able to expand their payroll
Simply fine Bobby Cox $1 for every mistake he makes
By April 15th, we could outspend the Yankees and Red Sox put together
Robert
January 20th, 2010
3:31 pm
Johnny Damon has a career adjusted OPS of 105, and my 82 year old auntie has a stronger throwing arm
We could get far more for far less. The only thing he brings to the table is brand name recognition
Tremaine
January 20th, 2010
3:41 pm
The Phillies were in first place last year when they got Lee the second half of the season. Now they have Halliday for the whole season. Mets are somewhat healthy and picked up Bay. If the braves lineup is not taking HGH or steriods this offseason then we are done before the allstar break.
randyarnold
January 20th, 2010
3:43 pm
As I Yankee fan, I was thrilled with the heads-up, aggressive play of Johnny Damon last October/November. And as a Yankee fan, I can tell fans of the Braves that Damon is a liability in the field, especially at spacious Turner Field. The only reason I can see for Atlanta signing him is that he fits the profile of players they are seeking to sign: an over 35-year-old who is past their prime.
Vincent
January 20th, 2010
3:44 pm
Robert, you obviously didn’t see him hit .364 in the World Series and single handedly win a game with his two-base steal. He is a strong veteran presence that will do more than just sit on the DL. Yeah, who needs a guy like that when you are trying to win ballgames….
Paul
January 20th, 2010
4:00 pm
That poll is a loaded question, how bout neither. Obviously McClouth is younger Damon is old, don’t think he last 2/3 of a season without “juice” around anymore.
tim
January 20th, 2010
4:05 pm
Damon?? He throws like a girl and is getting slower. No way!
Warren Spahn
January 20th, 2010
4:06 pm
Damon is an Amer League DH, nothing more. In the League where they play real baseball, you to be able to field at least adequately. Damon can’t anymore. It doesn’t matter how good or bad his bat is, we don’t have a position called “Bat.” Let’s move on.
With injuries
January 20th, 2010
4:13 pm
With Chipper and Glaus hurt for about 45-50 games here’s how ths lineup will look for 1/3 of the season. Wren already said this morning they are done making aquisitions so Damon isn’t coming to Atlanta. How does this lineup look?
1)McClouth
2)Prado
3)Escobar
4)BMac
5)Infante
6)Melky
7)Hinske
8)Blanco
ugaaccountant
January 20th, 2010
4:13 pm
It doesn’t matter how good or bad his bat is, we don’t have a position called “Bat.”
Garett Anderson and Greg Norton both played “bat” for us last year. Neither is remotely as good as Damon in the field or at the plate.
ugaaccountant
January 20th, 2010
4:15 pm
How does this lineup look?
1)McClouth
2)Prado
3)Escobar
4)BMac
5)Infante
6)Melky
7)Hinske
8)Blanco
Let’s be reasonable and plug in Diaz or Heyward instead of Blanco. Then I’d say it looks like a .500 ballclub thanks to our excellent pitching. We’re so close here, that’s why it’s so frustrating to pack it in “as is”.
Vigil
January 20th, 2010
4:19 pm
Cute line about “bat” not being a position but you still need to beat the American League to win a World Series. Enjoy fighting to stay above .500
John Tucker
January 20th, 2010
4:36 pm
Hou and O’Brien with your Damonitis.
Braves do not need to clutter up their outfield with anotheer past-prime, overpriced guy klike Damon to block the way for Shafer and Heyward. Besides, Diaz is a younger, faster Johnny Damon, at a much lower price.
Damon was good and is a great guy. But, he lacks the power to solve any problem the Braves’ offense has had.
old dog
January 20th, 2010
4:41 pm
Everybody talking trash about Gluas until the injury he was an Allstar 3b and if you have the reflexes to play 3b you sure have them to play 1st I know I have played both in my youth when hes hit 30 plus bombs this year and saved a lot of over throws {hes 6″5″ or 6″6} then nobody will be complaining about him except the teams we play.
ryan
January 20th, 2010
4:47 pm
Everyone thought Javy Vazquez was deadweight when we trade for him last year.
Alot of people didn’t understand how we could be better off without Smoltz.
Everyone thought Casey Kotchmann was going to be a run producer.
We all also expected the world from Jordan Schaefer.
The point is that no one can definitively say whether or not the Braves or better now.
The Grinch
January 20th, 2010
4:49 pm
This team IS considerably better than the one trotted out at the beginning of last season, and potentially much better than the one that ended it. I understand Troy Glaus is somewhat of a question mark, but y’all just write him off as if there’s no chance whatsoever the guy will bounce back from ONE injury and do what he’s done his entire career. Give Wren a little more credit.
And Melky might surprise a bit, too. Lighten up, folks. We can’t just buy everything anymore. Wren is doing the best he can with what he has, and it’s a damn sight better than most GM’s would be able to do in this situation.
Get out to the $%#@ ballpark and support your team, and payroll will go up.
Robert
January 20th, 2010
4:50 pm
“Robert, you obviously didn’t see him hit .364 in the World Series and single handedly win a game with his two-base steal.”
Even marginal players occasionally win games. What I’m saying is the guy is overrated as an offensive producer and dang near a real liability on defense
I watched Rafy Belliard line one over the left field wall in 1997. Doesnt mean I’d go after him with a big dollar contract
Robert
January 20th, 2010
4:50 pm
Grinch!!! DUDE!!!
Fine Cox $1 for every mistake he makes. You could match the Yankees in payroll and have free admission to everyone at every game
Conyers Yellow Jacket
January 20th, 2010
4:51 pm
I love the Braves but with the 90 mil limit, they did not get a real proven power hitter they really need.
We may as well be satisfied with what we have to start the season and hope the younger
bats can come around later. Signing Damon would not make the Braves better overall.
the real Andy
January 20th, 2010
4:55 pm
Looking at the Braves offseason moves, I can’t shake the feeling that they are projecting Heyward as a starter this year. If so, signing Damon makes no sense. I see Heyward in right, and Melky used in a platoon with Diaz in left, and McClouth in CF with Melky occasionally getting in there against tougher lefties.
Robert
January 20th, 2010
4:56 pm
” Wren is doing the best he can with what he has”
And when youre stuck with Cox, the upside is markedly limited
wayn-o
January 20th, 2010
5:06 pm
TRADE Melky for what ever, it free’s up $3 Mil & make an offer with what we have left – 2 yrs @ $10 Mil