Lowe upset about trade talk, Braves need to move him

trade lowe for some bats and balls and it’ll be a win for the braves……first!!!!

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never mind.. beau vighn beat me to it!!

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That is absolutely amazing. Derek Lowe was here for the Tom Glavine debacle, and I’m sure he’s well aware of the John Smoltz fiasco. He honestly thinks Frank Wren – or anyone in the organization – would tell him they were considering a trade?

Many people thought Wren signing lowe was a mistake, and his collapse in the last two months of the season did nothing to prove them wrong. Now he wants to cry about it.

I agree with you, Jeff. Dump him. Now. If Wren can get a case of baseballs and a few bats, that will be fine.

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Anything to dump his salary at least, so we can free up money to buy a bat or two.

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Nothing gets done as long as we have the donk Booby Cox here!

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We OWN uga.

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Remember all, the braves only had one pitcher when they signed Lowe (JJ). They had to sign him and over pay. Frank knew he was over paying but he had no choose at the time.

It just happened that everything worked for starting pitching, finally.

Man Hampton filled the Braves for three years, made them a $75 mil club. Unload Lowe for anything.

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I made Tebow Cry…..

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mets will suck
marlins will suck
phillies win div
braves win wild card

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Jeff:
no, I am really a uga fan. And yes gator man is correct they own us…. it sucks, at least we own gt

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how did a braves blog turn into college football?

reid, i agree. lowe got $15mil and he wants a phone call…..please

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Honeyyyyyyy, grab that a-hole Schultz’s Christmas card and burn it. Then wipe your tail with the ashes and flush it!

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I was thinking, who really cares what Derek Lowe thinks anyway.

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You care enough to ask who cares. I’m flattered…

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Frankly (pun absolutely intended), Wren should be looking to get rid of Lowe if for no other reason than that he’s a jerk and called out his defense on the field at least twice this season (twice that I saw, anyway). I was completely stunned to see him throw his arms up and yell toward the outfield when whoever was playing CF (I think Schafer once and McLouth once) didn’t dive for a ball that Lowe thought he should have gotten to. Maybe if he wasn’t constantly giving up screaming liners to the gap, he wouldn’t have to worry so much about whether his OF was giving the effort he expects out of them.

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Dump LOWE get Jason Bay !!!

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Its not like he is the only one being mentioned in possible trades and it should’nt come as a shock.He should have known that we need run producers! by seasons end. Their will only be a few ways to do that uping the payroll, dont see that for a big bat,a trade DL will not give us that just prospects with high potential not like Jason Heyward though,so there is only one scenario the trade for prospects and a free agent signing and yes it would have to be Lowe.Vasquez is just to valueable to the club and the knowledge alone to the young guys is priceless

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Art: Not disagreeing with you just had to note the irony that the Braves could/should look at the Hawks for a blueprint. Truly an alternate universe.

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Besides, it’s not like we gave up any talent to get Lowe. He was free agent. Why does everyone think we have to get much in return? Freeing up the 15 mil per year will be great.

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Is Jeff Burrough still available? How about Orlando Cepeda? Man, when I played he could swing de bat and pick it at de first base.

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Schultzie – let’s trade him to the Rays for Rafael Soriano.

Seriously though, assuming this doesn’t net much in return since the desperation is obvious at this point, do you have any confidence in Frank Wreck to get a bat? He’ll have no trade chips left, and he won’t have the budget for a free agent. And he may need several bats if LaRoche isn’t signed. What a disaster we have on our hands.

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Social comments and analytics for this post…

This post was mentioned on Twitter by JeffSchultzAJC: Derek Lowe upset about #Braves trade talk. I say dump him now. http://bit.ly/4xpFix…

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Jeff- so if we unload lowe’s contract to “free up money”, who is left for the braves to spend said money on, since bay and holliday seem improbable.

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Jeff is Glavine retired? If so does this mean that he and Maddux can go into the HOF together? I was in attendance in Rome for what was most likely Glavine’s last game. No one can deny that bringing up Hanson was the right thing to do but what if Glavine had pitched and finished the season with the same type of numbers that Kawakami had? I think this would have been better than paying D. Lowe the big money. Of course hindsight is 20/20.

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The braves do not want Jason Bay. You only thought watching Garrett Anderson lumber around left field was scary. Bay has been a butcher in the field the last 2 seasons. PLus he an IR stint waiting to happen – we already have that in Chipper.

I would be happy with Prospects for Lowe. Rivera would make me very happy. Swisher would make me ecstatic.

Personally, I say trade Lowe for whatever, use the money to sign Adam Laroche to a one or two year deal, or sign another 1B. Maybe Derosa.

Sign a good solid 4th outfielder and start the season with Diaz, in LF, Heyward in Rf and and McClouth in CF. Another possibility is signing Nady. That frees Diaz to maybe play a platoon at 1B with someone.

With $15 Mill of the books, the braves will have a ton of options, and maybe a couple AA players in the trade to boot.

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Its a business. Players know that and most understand but they still have feelings. I hope Lowe does good where ever he lands.
Next time Wren may think twice before giving another big contract. No to Bay, management already said No! Not much to pick now unless its by trade.
Thanks Jeff for info. Its good to get your opinion.

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In the 90.s when we needed a player we got the player. Now all we do is scrape by and try to make championship players out of average players. Then the morons here want to bash our HOF manager. It sure gets frustrating being a real Braves fan. What all of you need to understand is what we need is an OWNER!!!

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Sunshine, you are a total ass ……………….. you would not know a baseball if your mother gave birth to it

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I complained about the Lowe signing when it happened, although admittedly I was a little off base. My reasoning was that, though he’s been durable, injuries would become a problem at some point within that four-year span, just based on the fact that he’s getting up there in years. But, even considering the way it’s turned out, he’s not worth the money the Braves are paying him – not with their budget. Clearly Jurrjens, Hanson and Vazquez are better options than Lowe. And I might even think twice if you asked me to pick between Lowe and Hudson or Lowe and Kawakami. So, at the very best, he’s a No. 4 starter – not exactly what you’re looking for from a four-year, $60 million contract.

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Lets review the situation non-objectively.

Derek Lowe’s ERA and record during the 2006-07 and 08 seasons at Chavez Ravine was 25-15 with an ERA of 2.95.

His record over the same three seasons on the road: 17-18 with and ERA of 4.23

The Dodgers home is well known as a pitchers park as is Turner field where Derek Lowe posted an ERA of 4.28 versus 5.05 on the road in 2009 pitching for the Braves.

That said, Derek Lowe is a fine middle of the rotation starting pitcher but he’s no ace and hasn’t been since his days in Boston. When Frank Wren referred to Lowe as an ACE TYPE pitcher and ponied up 60 million over four years, the Braves GM obviously hadn’t done his due diligence.

The current situation is as much the fault of Frank Wren as anybody but it doesn’t bode well for future free agents who might consider coming to Atlanta when they read quotes like this:

“I take it kind of personal,” Lowe said. “Noboby made them give me a four-year, $60 million contract. There wasn’t a ransom or anybody holding a gun to their heads. It was a negotiation and that’s what they viewed as fair. I would have never even considered going there if I knew that ultimately this was going to happen.”

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Thanks in large part to Wren’s frequent admissions that the Braves have to unload one of their starters, preferably the one with the biggest contract, Lowe’s market value is next to nothing.

Not only are the Braves going to have to eat a considerable portion of Lowe’s contract (I’m guessing a third or so), they are going to get very, very little in return.

Since the handful of teams that will be willing to take on a good chunk of his salary also happen to be some of the most successful teams in the majors, the Braves will likely be paying the Yankees or Angels or some mystery team $5 million or so for the privilege of watching Lowe win 16 or 17 games.

By the time the Yankees or Angels (or whoever) have stalled long enough to reduce their modest offers to the Braves, the handful of hitters that might actually help the offense will be gone, and we’ll be left with next year’s model of Garrett Anderson.

But, hey, Lowe offended Jeff Schultz’s delicate sensibilities, so he’s gotta go.

Happy Hanukkah, Braves fans.

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I actually thought Lowe did a pretty good job last year, of course he wasn’t our best pitcher but he was a solid rotation guy. Sorry that it has come down to this situation of him being upset but this is still a business and players dont always treat organizations with respect and vice versa. That being said we NEED a bat and we have plenty of pitchers so process of elimination zeroes in on Lowe being traded. Hate to see him go though.

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Do not trade Javier Vazquez!
Do not trade Javier Vazquez!
Do not trade Javier Vazquez!
Do not trade Javier Vazquez!
Do not trade Javier Vazquez!

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Lowe needs to go and Braves management should be commended for making that decision and admitting he is a mistake. I was afraid they would trade one of the other guys. Absolutely the right decision. I am starting to like this Wren guy.

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Hey Jeff, have you heard anything recently about us trying to sign Nady? He still has great power potential and Id love to have him switch between the OF and 1b

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Just great that the Braves are dumping salary in the PR department and replacing them with interns. Meanwhile they eat $20 Million or more on Lowe’s salary. Way to save that $30 grand in PR. I know two different budgets but still utterly ironic. Isn’t that right, Mike Plant? Merry Christmas.

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Some of the people on this site need to reserve themselves to the fact that we may have Lowe this year because we can’t unload him. In that case Vasquez is the guy to go because the Tight a** Braves are not going to pay what it will take to sign him next year and we will get nothing for him.
What is this obsession with being the first one to blog on a topic, we need to have an age requirement on these sites.

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mike plant sounds like a douche.
We should trade Lowe without still paying him. Someone will get desperate for a starter soon. There’s plenty of starters out there making equal or greater $$ and performing worse than Lowe.

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Mr. Lowe you need to understand you’re not as good as the rest of the starters and you make more money. As a manager or owner what would you do

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How can everyone hate this guy? He went 15-10 (better than pretty much all of our pitchers the last few years) and was solid most of the year. He eats up innings and his ERA is not bad at all. You people are crazy. Pitching wins and he will give it to you most nights. Keep all of them Frank Wren and take some courage to sign a big bat. Spend the money and it will come back to you in fan support.

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@Whistlebritches: yeah, but in the second half he was only 8-7 with a 5.59 ERA – while the Braves were actually getting better.

5.59 is a BAD ERA.

His overall ERA for the year was 4.67 – the worst for him for the past 5 years. His ERA was higher than the average for the entire National League – that’s bad!

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Gee minitly this same old song get’s old. Lowe hires Scott Boras to rape MLB for $60mm based on past performance, then lays an egg in Atlanta, and HE’S UNHAPPY ABOUT TRADE TALKS?
move him. move him. He and Texiera can go have a beer together and talk about the good old days when Atlanta provided their FA step-stone to Rich’s.

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I believe that FW is a very good GM but if he would not disclose his every move, he would be in a much better barganning position.

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Juan Rivera? At this point we would be lucky to get Geraldo Rivera

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Mikey101, just to enlighten you Glavine and Smoltz was yesterday news. Where did they go and how did they pitch.

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HAHA, Jeff this is one of the best blogs you have written. “Pun inteneded”, classic! I have always thought Lowe to be a major D**k head and team cancer. Back when he was with the Dodgers and they were in Atlanta, some guy had a 2004 World Series banner signed by all of the Red Sox, except who….Derek Lowe. It was outside the staduim, maybe five people, and the guy informed Lowe he had been trying to get his signature and he was the last player he needed to complete his signed banner. Lowe laughs at the guy and says “NO” with a smirk on his face and keeps walking. Lowe is just a first class prick who can not pitch and does not fit in Atlanta. I knew something would happen when we signed him last year. He should go to the Skankees, he would fit in great up there and Swish would be a great addition to the Bravos. Not only for his pop, but for his grittyness and all out effort. Kinda reminds me of Diaz. Not to mention his upbeat attitude and his teammates love him.

The Braves need some enthusiams like that and less whiny babies like Lowe. I wouldn’t want to go to battle with him next year! You can’t trust him! I agree Jeff, we MUST trade him now, if Wren doesn’t, how does he know that he won’t just lay down on us next year when he gets a boo boo on his finger and gets rocked by the Muts when we have a commanding lead in the third inning!? Remember that one?

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I’m sure Lowe is a good guy who wants to prove his worth, but if we move him, Matt Holliday becomes affordable. PS: Jesus is Lord! Merry Christmas!

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DEREK, bro, this is business. your era was above 4 last year, and that sinker didn’t do much. yes, you got 15 wins, which is admirable, but the $15 mil we’re shelling out just isn’t worth it. it’s a business deal, and we have less expensive prospects for this season.

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Myra- You said earlier that the Braves had done nothing to make you want to buy the first ticket to a ballgame this year THEN ask why we’re not signing Johnny Damon???????? Just because someone plays for the Yankees and is on TV ALL the time doesn’t make them worth 13M per year. And quite possibly the worst outfield arm in all of baseball. Yes, probably even weaker than Juan Pierre’s.

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I still wish people could mature a lit bit and not write “first” like they are in elementary school…

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Jeff Schultz: “Vazquez would be easier to move because he’s entering his free agency year.”

This statement is utterly senseless — Vazquez might be easier to move than Lowe, but that ain’t why.

Vazquez would be even easier to move if he had TWO years left under a $11-12M/year contract, and easier than that with three years left, etc.

In fact your whole point is totally bogus imo — nothing Lowe could say would lessen his trade value. (Within reason — if he confessed to PEDs, or said his arm fell off the last two months of the season — well of course stuff like that would affect his value.)

But otherwise? Nah.

The givens are his contract $ and years, and his performance last year and over his career.

The variables are how many teams want a pitcher, how much and for how long, and the perceptions of his performance.

What he has to say, especially if he’s happy or frustrated with his current nebulous situation, would have absolutely no bearing on it.

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Give me a break, Jeff. Lowe has every right to be upset about trade talks if he wants to stay. Just because he is unhappy isn’t a justification for “dumping him” for less than what he could bring in return. This guy is a veteran who understands the business. Believe me, if he doesn’t get traded, he’s not going to “tank it” because he is upset. He is the type of competitor who will want to prove eveyone wrong. Columns like this are flat out STUPID!

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Why is no one worried about third base? Chipper was awful last year. He cost us a number of games with his inept hitting and defensive errors and lapses.This is compounded with him hitting in the third spot. And a huge contract to boot. I am afraid he is a real liablity at this point.

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The people who write first probably don’t have much of a life and will be celebrated his feat all day long

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Jim..I have been worried about Chipper since we overpaid him on his current 3 yr extension. He is going to be 40 when the contract ends and is always battling some sort of injury. I suspect he played hurt most of last season, leading to the falloff in numbers. I understand loyalty to CJ and he’s one of my favorites but it’s not Chipper’s fault for taking the money, it was a poor move on Wren’s part to offer so much.

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Rumors rumors… (December 17th, 2009 8:40 am): “Did anyone actually watch the World Series this year? Nick Swisher SUCKS, if Wren pulls the trigger on that he’s a effin MORON.”

Dude, you’re the MORON if you think you can validly evaluate a player based on 5 games and 19 Plate Appearances. (Or even 24 Gs and 89 PAs — his entire postseason experience.)

Swisher’s performance over 700+ games and 3000+ PAs is a better basis for judging his perfromance.

“Jeff, how much is Kawakami making”

JFGI.

” and why no talk about dumping him?”

Kawakami will not be traded. (Let alone “dumped”.)

“If Kawakami and Lowe are close in salary “

Cheese whiz, kid, Lowe is making 2 and a quarter times what Kawakami is pulling down ($15M v $6.667M).

Sheesh — what a maroon.

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Throw Nate the Not So Great in with him and see if we can get bats, balls & a few helmets as well

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Lowe has every right to be upset, but not at the Braves.

Schultz: as you put it, he was making ace money, but performing as a #5 starter. Every time the Braves play, you want them to go out fielding the best possible team. But when you look at the starting lineups, and you see Derek Lowe penciled in as the starter, you don’t know what to expect. Jurrjens? Gonna be a close game because for some reason the Braves don’t give him much run support. Hanson? Can’t wait for that game to start. Lowe? Who’s he pitching against? Because there are too many factors that come into play, like are the Braves playing in a hitters’ stadium, who is the opposing starter, does the lineup have any backups starting, etc.

Why would Lowe be upset with Atlanta? Wren has never said “We’re gonna trade Lowe.” All he’s said is that the Braves plan to trade a starting pitcher. It could very well be Vazquez because Lowe is going to be extremely hard to get rid of. Should he be upset because the Braves haven’t come and talked to him? To say what, exactly? That his name has come up in trade discussions? If I had to guess, I would say that over half of the players in MLB come up in trade discussions at some point over the offseason, and we only hear a small percentage in the Hot Stove world. But because Lowe has been a main topic in that area, he assumes he is going to be traded.

Sorry, Lowe, you don’t have a reason to be upset at the Braves. You have plenty of reasons to be upset (ERA, BAA, K/BB ratio just to name a few), but not at the Braves. Talk about being traded after you’ve been traded. It hasn’t happened yet, and there’s no guarantee that it will.

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It makes perfect sense for the Braves and the Angels to work out a deal at this point. The Angels have slipped behind the Mariners and maybe the Rangers in the AL west and with Lackey going to Boston and Lee to the Mariners they have to do something at this point to stay competitive in the AL. Lowe to the Yankees for Swisher would be a great deal for the Braves but even the talk of it could make the Angels up an offer.

Why aren’t the Braves trying to get involved with the Padres to talk about getting Adrian Gonzalez? I don’t care who you had to give up this guy is young and a stud and signed cheap for the next 2 years. I could see trading Jair Jurrjens for him and if you could work out an extention throw in Freeman, this guy is that good. I love Jurrjens but he is a Boras client so soon you are going to have to fork over big bucks to keep him or watch him sign somewhere else and really his trade value is probably at his peak right now.

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Its interesting that in baseball today no one wants to trade for a star with only 1 year before free agency and most teams don’t want to trade for those with a big long term contract. Further, those that are free agents and rank at the top for a given offseason market get top dollar even if they don’t compare to the other top players. John Lackey is not the same player as CC Sabathia for instance.

The cheap young guys have become much more valuable, every team needs them at several positions to be able to afford the expensive veteran stars.

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We was not happy when they was talking trade about us, either. Then, boom! They traded us to the Mets. Let’s hope they get something back this time. We was thinking Chipper is getting a little old and slow for the hot corner and even if he’s wearing support hose this year he’s gonna have injury problems. Is they an American League team that needs a DH that can still hit a little? One that could send us some players?

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JD,

I seriously hope you are not talking about Kelly Johnson? He is absolutely horrible and I am glad he is gone. I really don’t think he could start for most college teams. How many games has he lost single handily?

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$15M CRYBABY-just go out and earn your money. Players and agents keep saying it’s a business until the business effects them.

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Jim (December 17th, 2009 8:52 am): “Why is no one worried about third base? Chipper was awful last year. He cost us a number of games with his inept hitting and defensive errors and lapses.This is compounded with him hitting in the third spot. And a huge contract to boot. I am afraid he is a real liablity at this point.”

It’s pretty clear you have no idea what you’re talking about.

Do you?

Which specific games did he lose for the Braves? Or are you just making that up?

Whose contract is “huger” — Jones’ or Jeter’s? Who ’s more of a liability to his team — Jones or Jeter?

Here’s Jones’ performance the last five years:

Jones 2005: .296/.412/.556/.968
Jones 2006: .324/.409/.596/1.005
Jones 2007: .337/.425/.604/1.029
Jones 2008: .364/.470/.574/1.044
Jones 2009 (thru Jul): .287/.407/.481/.888
Jones 2009: .264/.388/.430/.818

Until the last two months, Jones was performing as well or better in 2009 than Derek Jeter (.321/.397/.454/.851).

And compare Jones’ 2009 season to Derek Jeter’s 2008 season:

Jones 2009: .264/.388/.430/.818
Jeter 2008: .300/.363/.408/.771

Jeter’s 2008 OBP was 25 points lower than Jones’ 2009 OBP, and Jeter’s 2008 SLG was 22 points lower than Jones’ 2009 SLG.

That is, Jeter in 2008 was worse than Jones in 2009. But was anyone calling Jeter a liability? Not that I recall. Not even though Jeter’s performance over the last five years (except for the last two months of this season) has been notably inferior to Jones’.

Imo, it’s just way too soon to say that Jones is washed up, after only two months worth of data at the tail end of a long and arduous season in which he played more games than he had in six years, and in which he had very little protection behind him in the line-up.

Jones played in more games (143) this year than he has in any year since 2003.

And Jones played in more games for the Braves (143) than anyone else this year, and had more Plate Appearances for the Braves (596) than anyone else but Escobar (604).

He ain’t dead yet.

PS: Just for Gee Whizzes:

Tthese are the awards Jeter’s won over thae past five years — and Jones has been better than Jeter over that span:

2006 Baseball Digest Player of the Year Award
2006 Hank Aaron Award
2006 Silver Slugger Award (American League)
2006 TYIB: Hitter of the Year Award
2007 Silver Slugger Award (American League)
2009 Hank Aaron Award
2009 Roberto Clemente Man of the Year Award
2009 Sportsman of the Year Award

Jones got no awards over the past five years.

Finally, how much was Jones paid over the last five years? $67M.

How much for Jeter? $105M.

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Noah
Found this:

“Entering his third full season in the Majors, Jurrjens will not be able to file for free agency until after the 2013 season. However, starting in 2011, Jurrjens will enter the first of three arbitration eligible seasons and will receive a nice pay raise at the end of each year.”

I think the Braves have 2 big problems and one is obvious, The Braves have to find another power hitter to protect Chipper and Brian but what I think is just as big a problem is that the Braves have 6 RIGHT handed starters. If they go into the season without a left handed starter they better get 2 or 3 big bats because they are going to need to score a lot of runs to win the division.

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I bet John Smoltz would have at least performed equally to Lowe..Smoltz would’ve cost you 1 to 2 million..13 mil left for the big bat..Hummm

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j (December 17th, 2009 9:52 am): “I seriously hope you are not talking about Kelly Johnson? He is absolutely horrible and I am glad he is gone. I really don’t think he could start for most college teams. How many games has he lost single handily?”

Here’s a different opinon on Johnson from someone a lot smarter than you, kid. Try to learn something. (As for you final question, the answer is “zero”. It’s a team game, numbnuts.)

From Baseball Prospectus’ Joe Sheehan:

“Among the others [who were non-tendered], I get most excited about Kelly Johnson, who had a lost season while Martin Prado had a strong one, making Johnson a luxury. Johnson didn’t hit as well as he had in ‘08, with line drives turning into fly balls, but the result, a nearly 100-point loss in BABIP that destroyed his rate stats, wasn’t entirely reflective of how he played. Given the wrist injury he played through and loss of his regular status early in the year, I’m inclined to look at his 2009 and give him a mulligan. Johnson is a .270/.340/.440 guy who can play second base at about an average level. He does have experience in left field and can play some third base, so he’s useful as a bench option. Of the newly-minted free agents, he strikes me as the one likely to have the most value in ‘10. The Dodgers need a second baseman, and any number of bad teams like the Padres, Nationals, and Pirates could be improved with the addition of Johnson.”

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Dump the sweathog! I never saw a guy sweat more (literally and figuratively) than D. Lowe. Quite whining you overpaid bum! If we could dump him, I’d jump for joy. A. Gonzalez at first would be a dream, it’ll never happen!

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Noah

I don’t know. That is a top Pitching prospect, firstbase prospect (to replace Gonzales) and a top CF prospect

You could maybe toss in a Brandon Jones or something like that for good measure

It is going to be hard for any other team to match that many TOP prospects

The word from the Red Sox is Elsbury is not going and that any trade would be Cla Buckholtz and a couple of ither unnamed prospects

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I say trade him for 2-3 of Tiger’s chickies.

As an aside, I don’t know much about Elin, but darned if I don’t have a lot of respect for her.

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DLowe is kind of creepy…get rid of him. Don’t go talking family business outside the family. That ain’t the Braves way. See ya!

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Jordan Schafer has no value. He hit .204 with ATL, and has done nothing to distinguish himself in the minors. Another minor league bust in the Braves’ organization.

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Anyone remember me? I can still pick it at 1b !

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Coach Smith
I live in New England and the Red Sox Fans are a little ticked off today since reports are that the Red Sox will include Ellsbury and Buchholz along with other minor leaguers if a trade occurs. The signing of Mike Cameron yesterday isn’t sitting well either since that makes Ellsbury available to be traded.

If the Braves or any team is going to get Gonzales they are going to have to give up a lot of young Major League ready talent. Remember last year when the Braves and a few others were trying to get Jake Peavey, they wanted Escobar and 3 or 4 prospects including Tommy Hansen. Good thing Frank said no to them.

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I remember hearing the announcement of lowe’s signing on 680 the fan earlier this year. I was like really? If Wren hadnt made those good moves after the all star break the lowe and kawakami deals should’ve cost him his job. I’d still like to see wren go tbh

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Lowe sweats a lot on the mound. His cap gets soggy. This is an indicator of a pitcher that throws a heavy ball. We never sweated much but we was on a team with Stinky Wintes and he took sweating to a new level.

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The signing of Lowe and KK was not bad. I loved it and still do, remember our pitching in 2008. I’ll still take great pitching over hitting, especially come playoff time. KK makes 6 million, half of what Oliver Perez makes for the Mets and KK actually gives you something, I bet he is even better in his second year.

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Jeff Schultz (December 17th, 2009 10:23 am): “No, you’re the one who’s off base. Teams know they can get a great pitcher for a year and not have any financial obligation beyond this season. No, for teams that may want him long term, that’s a different story. But not a lot of teams looking to acquire long-term contracts these days.”

You seem to be confusing fantasy baseball with the real thing.

(Did you forget your meds again?)

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Luck Fowe. What a crybaby. He needs to take a good luck at himself and have a little humility. Is he a decent pitcher? Yes, but he stunk it up last year and would’ve won 8 games if the offense had not picked him up to the tune of 7-8 runs per start. He should just say, “I totally understand that I didn’t perform up to my contract and why they would trade me. I’ll do better for another team next year.” End of story.

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Jeff: Consider my 7:45. I’m interested in what you have to say.

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Y’all are making too big a deal out of this Lowe stuff. He was asked the questions, and he answered honestly. It’s not like he called a press conference to announce he was unhappy. He didn’t say Cox or Wren were stupid or insult your momma.

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Just reread your first post Statboy. You come across as a complete a$$ in your posts btw. No one likes a know it all who is full of stats and quotes from other peoples articles. You probably are a Tech fan/alumn too…

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PMC…dont have a specific link for you, but I seem to remember Chipper saying last year that if this year wasn’t back to normal, he would retire and cancel the remaining contract. The dude has taken significantly less money than he could’ve had elsewhere for the same production and has repeatedly said that he’s emabarrased by the amount of money he’s made in his career. I think he would do the Braves right, as much as possible. We’ll see tho.

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JS – I don’t think John Smoltz would have wone 15 games, or pitched nearly as many innings. Our bullpen was worn out as it was!

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A lot of folks are playing the Monday Morning QB here and throwing a lot of %#$@ at Frank Wren. Lowe was not the first choice last year, Peavey and AJ were and when both of those failed Lowe was it. The Braves needed pitching and Frank went out and got the best that was available. If I remember correctly the Vazquesz deal was the one most people didn’t like because Tyler Flowers was invloved in it. How’s that trade look now? As far as Kenshin Kawakami goes I think the Braves got what they thought they would out of him. When he was good, he was very good but around August fatigue set in like it does the first year for many Asian players and he was bad. Year 2 will be the determining factor as to if this deal was a good one or not and I believe he will a decent starter this year.

Even though Javier Vazquez will probably walk at the end of the season the one thing you get with him is an added bat to the bench. The way Bobby used him to pinch hit when he needed a bunt was brilliant last season. I mean the guy was automatic.

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Don – It would be great (and a luxury) to keep all pitchers. However, that leaves no room to make any moves payroll-wise. DUH!
If you are happy with our line-up, then let’s keep them all. (unless Ted Turner buys the team back)
I will disreguard your usual drivel about BC, as it has no value.

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I disagree with this article 100%. Derek Lowe is a tough, solid pitcher. He had a poor 2nd half of the season but his resume speaks for itself.

I don’t understand the need for everyone to pile on with negativity. So the guy is a little hurt that a team he CHOSE to come to and work his tail off for, now may not want him. It’s human nature to care and have pride in your team. Why are we criticizing him for this?

All of this aside, we need a bat and shedding his contract is ideal. However, if his deal doesn’t get done and he’s starting for the Braves on opening day, why stir up all of this negativity, now?

Isn’t this what everyone said about Mike Woodson too? Wasn’t Roddy White a “bust” 2 seasons ago?

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A little help here?

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Rumors rumors… (December 17th, 2009 10:41 am): “Just reread your first post Statboy. You come across as a complete a$$ in your posts btw. No one likes a know it all who is full of stats and quotes from other peoples articles. You probably are a Tech fan/alumn too…”

Oh, yes, by all means, let’s get the stats out of baseball.

They’re just so darn confusing, I’m sure they make your head hurt.

And instead of reading what other people who know more than us write about baseball, let’s just make up our own stories about who sucks and all. That’s way more fun.

PS: Ever thought about how you come across, arrogant little igmo?

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for 60 million dollars i would let the entire front office of the braves organization beat me with a baseball bat and then let them take turns urinating on me… they could video tape this if they like, and then put it on sportscenter’s “not top 10″.

so derek, cry me a f*cking river… jeez.

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Why would it be hard to get teams to take Lowe yet John Lackey who doesnt stay healthy and doesnt give you the innings just got over $80 million. If you dont expect the world in return there are some teams that will have interest in Lowe.

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Liberty Media is NOT cheap. We are not Florida, Pittsburgh, Kansas City etc.

Our payroll is in the same realm as Seattle, White Sox, Dodgers, Houston and greater then St Louis, and much greater then Texas, Minnesota and Tampa by almost 30 million.

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*Should say “AREN’T as comparable” in my above post.

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Evaluating a pitcher by his W-L record, largely outside of his control, is foolish. It’s amazing how stupid people are given the otherwise “enlightened” world we live in. The world of baseball statistics and analysis is mired in the 1800s, when pitching was a complete-game, mano v. mano contest.

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Jeff:

You media guys crack me up. First, you criticize players for giving “pat” answers to your “probing” questions and then when someone is honest, you want to rip him, get him out of town (and give him away to boot). I don’t have any problem at all with Derek Lowe saying how he would be disappointed to be traded after only one year. Sounds to me like a guy who would prefer to stay in Atlanta. Apparently, you can’t grasp the concept that understanding the business and performing if he isn’t trading after the season starts and voicing unhappiness about the propsect of being traded after one year are not mutually exclusive.

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Oh I’m sorry, let’s all just agree with YOU and how you can sneak a FU in your last post. You absolutely are a Tech fan. I bet you posted on the UGA blogs for a year straight until Thanksgiving weekend rolled around…

So career stats matters more than what a guy is currently doing? Statboy please. The difference between you and I is I want a world series championship in Altlanta, you on the other hand are fine with another mediocre outfielder who can only contribute enough to get us close to sniffing the post season. While the Phils are out grabbing Halladay we are talking about eating some of Lowe’s contract and possibly grabbing Nick Swisher. I imagine you are fine with that.

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TECH ENJOY YOUR BI-DECADE SUCCESS….

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Poor baby. Sack up. You pitched like an old lady in some of the most crucial games of the year. Thanks for killing your market and backing the team into a corner. Hope you go somewhere else and get lit every game.

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I think the Braves thought Soriano would get a two year + deal and they dont like to sign long term in bullpen for obvious reasons and Wagner is one of the all time best and in their eyes is healthy and Soriano has had an injury history and apparently I’ve heard held out and had surgury that many with the Braves felt was not needed.

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Jeff: Great point on the long term contracts and paying the young guys in the future. Don’t you think thats a big reason why the Red Sox went with Cameron for 2 years instead of Bay for 4 years. They probably feel the stats including defense aren’t that much less with Cameron and the pay is half and the years half.

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Trade DLowe to the Cubs straight up for Alfonso Soriano haha…I WISH

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-why not trade him for nothing, that’s what we’ve gotten for everyone else this year

–if you can’t afford big-name bats, get a COMPETENT hitting coach

–”Random” appears to be a bigger arsehole than the legendary Mr Lentz

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I write the songs that make Tebow/Lowe cry, I write the songs, I write the songs.

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The Braves tried to get AJ Burnett for even more money, probably more years too. Guess what he was worse then Lowe was in a very down year.

Burnett: 13 wins on a team with tons of offense, 4.04 ERA.

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Noah, I’m gonna have to disagree with you again. Burnett was significantly better than Lowe in every important category this year: ERA, huge difference in adjusted ERA, enormous difference in strikeouts.

The only thing Lowe has more of is wins, and that’s about the last thing you should use to evaluate a pitcher. Again, all that means is that Lowe had more instances in which his team won a game in which he was the last pitcher to pitch before his team took their final lead.

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Swisher is so over rated, he hit .249 w/126 k’s last yr hiS hr’s were the product of new Yankee Stadium. In Atl he’s a bust.

Keep Lowe for the time being…he’s NOT a club house cancer, we might need him in case of injury, he might actually have a great year and as the trade DL approaches we will be able to get good prospects from him and we won’t have to eat any of his salary.

Chipper will play less than 50 games next year due to injury…if we can’t or don’t sign LaRoche Troy Glaus would be worth the 2-3 million risk at 1B and we might even need him at 3rd.

Nady is probably the best we could hope for in RF with the exception of Jason Heyward.

Don’t count out Jordan Schafer…He was HURT all last year. Nevertheless we likely won’t see him til 2011.

We are NOT getting Bay or Holliday. Nobody else out there gets my juices flowing more than Heyward and Schafer.

hold all the jokes…Frank – please tell us there is no way Greg Norton makes the team.

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Ted, if you’re gonna comment, at least know what you’re talking about. Swisher’s numbers were not a product of Yankee Stadium. At home last year, he hit .226 with 8 homers. On the road, he hit .268 with 21 homers. Looks like your argument was 100% incorrect there. Swisher is very UNDERrated by people who still look at batting average as a meaningful statistic. He had 97 walks and 65 extra base hits last year. Those 65 XBHs would have led the Braves last year. And 43 of the 65 were ON THE ROAD. Yeah, real Yankee Stadium bloated numbers there.

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The Braves signed outfielder/first baseman Mitch Jones, reports David O’Brien of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. The 32-year-old is a minor league lifer with five Triple A seasons under his belt. He has big-time power, with 35 home runs and a .651 SLG this year for the Albuquerque Isotopes. Sometimes all these so-called Quad-A guys need is an opportunity; Jack Cust provided good value for the A’s over the last three seasons.

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anybody think there’s a chance we can move Lowe and a prospect to get Rivera or Swisher?

How about Lowe to Angels, prospects from LA to Florida, Willingham to Braves?

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Ted “Swisher is so over rated, he hit .249 w/126 k’s last yr hiS hr’s were the product of new Yankee Stadium. In Atl he’s a bust.”

He hit 21 HRs on the road, and 8 at Yankee Stadium

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Brian- BA is a meaningless stat?? It shows consistency. Sure guys can put the bat on the ball and move runners but eventually he has to hit. SO and OBP are obviously very important as well but how would you rather have up at the plate? A guy hitting .320 or guy hitting .250?? I wouldn’t say that BA is the most important stat but it’s definitely not meaningless.

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@ Noah – Yes I know we had 20 HR guys but the big word when I was talking about Soriano was GUARANTEED. I remember before the Braves hit that hot streak coming out of the All Star break we were all wondering whether anyone on the Braves would make it to 20 HRs. That was a scary feeling.

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@ Noah – Me too man when Cameron signed with the Red Sox I thought “I one hurt.” He may be older but he can still hit & play the outfield. To be honest I wish we could sign LaRoche back to play 1B but his asking price is enormous and way too long for what we’re wanting. For the Outfield I like Rivera of the Angels and Swisher. Rivera is young and still hasn’t hit his stride so his value can continue to increase. I’m a little wary about Swisher but I like him better than Nady. But we’re in a tough situation right now, I’m hoping Heyward shows up during Spring Training & is able to make the cut.

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Also is it just me or is Lowe on meth? Notice the way he just looks crazy when he’s pitching? Dude’s smacking his lips and moving all weird. Maybe it’s coke idk

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I say lets trade kawakami and Lowe, and sign Smoltz for a one year 3 million deal

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Here’s what Keith Law of ESPN just said about Derek on his chat —

“Derek: Shut up. If this mattered that much you should have taken less money and gotten a blanket no-trade clause.”

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And here is where Jim Caple put the Braves in the Best Teams of the 2000’s –

“Seventh, and a very distant seventh. They went from a team that lost in the postseason all the time to a team that didn’t reach the postseason anymore. Hypothetical Games Behind the Yankees — Red Sox(10) Cardinals(12) Angels(13) Twins(16) Phillies(17) Atlanta(23)”

To be honest I’m surprised we’re that high on his list.

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Trade KK He isnt major league ready trade lowe not javier get some money and get adam back and maybe a couple prospects its not that hard

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@ Random – Very good points about Kawakami & Japan — if we traded him away we’d never be able to sign another Japanese player for a LONG TIME.

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scrotus ()December 17th, 2009 12:05 pm: “–”Random” appears to be a bigger arsehole than the legendary Mr Lentz”

(Says the empty ball sack.)

LOL — — Not according to Mr Lentz.

PS: I’m sure they’ll descend one day. Good luck with that.

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Nothing surprises me anymore with the Braves. Which means I wouldn’t be surprised if the Braves open the season with both Heyward and Freeman in the lineup. Can they do any better? Maybe but why waste good money on over the hill players when they can save money and get these guys some seasoning in hopes that in a couple of years when the Phillies are older the Braves will be ready to make a run.

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Rumors rumors… (December 17th, 2009
11:25 am): “So career stats matters more than what a guy is currently doing? Statboy please.”

Again, show me where I said that, dumbaxe.

I merely said that career stats were a better indicator of a player’s capabilities than one play-off series. That’s what got you bristling, even though it’s prima facie obvious.

(Yeah, the Latin’s there just to piss you off.)

“The difference between you and I is I want a world series championship in Altlanta, you on the other hand are fine with another mediocre outfielder who can only contribute enough to get us close to sniffing the post season.”

Oh, I can think of a lot of differences between you and me (note correct grammar here, igmo) — but that’s not one of them.

“While the Phils are out grabbing Halladay we are talking about eating some of Lowe’s contract and possibly grabbing Nick Swisher. I imagine you are fine with that.”

That may be what you’re talking about — not me. You “imagine” a lot. That’s kinda hard to pull off when you have no active imagination, I would think. Is it?

PS: And just when was the last time the Braves were “close to sniffing the post season”? I wouldn’t turn my nose up at it.

As long as the Braves get into the play-offs I’ll be happy, ’cause it’s just a crapshoot after that, and they’ll have as good a chance (or better) as any other play-off team to win the WS.

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send lowe out west and bring use a player that can produce every nite………..We need a deep threat! Remember when we had a few in the line-up, believe me do that and you may get the fans back in the seats.

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Bushwacker – you can’t just look at the record you have to look at Strikeouts & ERA. I don’t like giving up Lowe but we have to get another hitter.

Vazquez:
15-10
238 Ks
2.87 ERA

Lowe:
15-10
111 Ks
4.67 ERA

The difference in ERA can make or break every game Lowe starts, it’s tough to keep him around with the lineup we have.

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Lowe was 15-10 in his 1st season.

What was the run support like during those games? I dont recall the Braves being very good offensively in years. Is that his fault too?

Why did you sign him in the 1st place? You look kinda stupid right now. On the hook for $15M again for a guy you dont like. Didn’t you learn from the Mike Hampton debacle?

Apparently not.

I would keep him, as I would have Soriano. You never have too many quality pitchers and it’s a crapshoot on what you are getting in the outfield, see Jordan Schafer.

Lowe could very easily win 18-20 games next year with a little run support. Proven veterans are invaluable if you could ever make it back to the post-season, but you keep stubbing your toes in the off-season.

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You ALMOST feel sorry for him…almost. But! It’s a smart economic move on the Braves’ part to get rid of Lowe’s contract. Now if it could be renegotiated down in price (& I mean waaaay down) and Lowe wouldn’t mind moving to the bullpen, then maybe there’s a way to keep him here. But, I doubt very seriously that would ever happen.

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Trade Derek Lowe to The Los Angeles Angels for Juan Rivera and a good prospect that’s a good deal. Juan Rivera can play left field.

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Well said Jeff. Atlanta ain’t a ballclub that likes having guys who bad-mouth the club and have a sense of entitlement. Granted, there aren’t really any ballclubs that like having those kinds of players, but Atlanta doesn’t keep those guys around for very long (see Bob Wickman), nor should they.

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I think the Braves should trade Lowe to the Angles along with JO JO Reyes and Kris Medlen to the Padres and the Angles send Juan Rivera and a couple prospects to the Padres and we recieve Adrian Gonzalez. I think Gonzolez is due 10 million this year so we use the extra money with what we have and sign Vlad to play in the outfield. We could keep Heyward at the Major League level and use Diaz, Heyward and Vlad to play the corner positions with McClouth in center. This would not put as much pressure on Heyward and Vlad could be a good mentor to him along with Chipper.

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Angels Pursuing Javier Vazquez?
By Luke Adams [December 17 at 5:54pm CST]
The Los Angeles of Angels of Anaheim are focusing on acquiring Javier Vazquez from the Atlanta Braves, according to ESPN.com’s Jayson Stark. Stark hears from rival executives that, in the wake of missing out on John Lackey, the Angels have turned their attention to the Braves and Vazquez.

The Angels will have an uphill battle, however, attempting to deal for Vazquez, as opposed to his teammate Derek Lowe. In addition to coming off a stronger season and having a more favorable contract than Lowe, Vazquez also has a no-trade clause that allows him to veto a deal to a west-coast club. A trade to the Angels would mean the right-hander would have to waive that clause, which he negotiated in order to stay closer to his family in Puerto Rico.

With Lackey, Roy Halladay, and Randy Wolf all off the market, Vazquez is one of the more interesting names still potentially available. The Braves have maintained all along that once Lackey signed, Lowe would become a more attractive commodity, and the same could be said about Vazquez. I don’t expect the Braves to move him, but they could demand a significant return if they did.

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Hi, I am Seong-Ho,Yoon living in Jinhae city southkorea now.

I think Derek Lowe & Joseph Sammon & Jordan Schafer & Joseph Reyes & Grego Blanco to Yankees for Philip Hughes, would be fantastic trade. ^*^

May the force of Messiah be with you

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Lowe will be 37 in 2010 and the Braves are on the hook for another $45 million. Scouts are saying his fastball has slipped & the sinker ain’t sinking like it used to. Vazquez is much younger and may be in the prime of his career. It only makes sense to shop Lowe NOW so Wren can acquire a much-needed bat or two to kick-start this lethargic lineup. WAKE UP ! ITS A BUSINESS !

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I say just keep Lowe and Vazquez and trade one of the other pitchers to SD for their first baseman.

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Mitch Jones? All those HR’s were hit in high-altitude Albuerqerque, where balls fly out like bats out of a cave. I hope he’s not the answer to firstbase.

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Remember that the key to winning in baseball is Pitching, Pitching, Pitching. With the Braves Pitching and even some minor hitting adjustments, the Braves could be good enough to win the Wild Card or even the Division. Oh, I forgot, Bobby Cox is still the manager. So forget it. There is no way that they could add enough players to compete with the Phils – with Cox managing. With his management procedures and lack thereof and his conitinous blunders, its like starting the season at least 10 games behind. The most amazing thing in baseball is that he does so many obvious things that defy logic and basic winning procedures – that would never be done by any good managr a any level of baseball – and yet keeps his job and is never challenged by the AJC Writers – when these things happen game aftr game after game.

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The Braves keep talking about making trades or signing free agents when this is not their biggest problem. No matter how good your personnel, an incompetent manager will cost you game after game after game. (1) It doesn’t require a very good manager to replace a player in the lineup who obviously cannot produce – rather than waiting months to do this.
(2) It doesn’t require a good manager to be intelligent enough to move a hitter out of a key spot in the batting order who is in a prolonged slump – and down in the order.
(3) It doesn’t require a very smart manager to stop using a relief pitcher over and over and over who is not producing.
(4) It doesn’t require a very good manager to be intelligent enough to move hitters up and down in the batting order based on who is hot and who is not.
(5) It doesn’t require a very good manager to stop using a pinch hitter who never produces.
(6) It doesn’t require a very intelligent manager to adjust his lineup if he has a player who never his a certain pitcher or a player on the bench who has a record of hitting a certin pitcher really well.
(7) It does’t requre a very good manager to not overuse certain pitchers in his Bullpen year after year.
(8) It doesn’t require a very good manager to realize that in order to have a good consistant offense you must teach, emphasize, demand that your hitters be selective, work the count, make the opposing pitcher throw some pitches.
(9) It doesn’t reqiure a very intelligent manager to realize that you have to do more than make out the lineup and then be a cheerleader – that you must have an offensive game plan.
(10) And on and on

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Trade him? He should already be gone! Hell should never have been signed, at least as a #1. I said Wren should have never been brought him on as a # 1. This is another example of Wren’s incompetence and I don’t understand why he hasn’t been held accountable for this multi-million $ screw up. Don’t cut Wren slack by saying Liberty Media won’t give him a higher budget–Wren has been wreckless and has not spent his budget wisely. He went out and got Lowe (no problem there), but paid #1 money when he should have offered #3 money (#2 at best). On this staff right now he’s a # 4 or a long reliever. I also think he way overpaid for McLouth who he got to beef up the offense—but only Wren would think a 250 hitter is going to improve an offense.

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Well since Vazquez has said no to a trade then Trade Lowe for Rivera and sign Blalock for 2 years at 1st. Braves have added right and left handed hitting capable of around 50 homers. Price should be right and no long term comitment on either.

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Derek: I am scraping to put food on the table for a family of five, busting my butt everyday to try and find a minimum wage job, can’t afford to even go to a minor league game and then I hear that you (who makes millions playing a game) are crying about maybe being traded. Get out of A Town you overpaid jock, get a real job, and then let me know how you like it.

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Uh, Jeff now that the Braves have traded Vazquez instead of Lowe, let me know how your first interview with Lowe goes after you tried to run him out of town.

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Lowe’s going no where now. Neither are the Braves.

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Trading Lowe would’ve been the smart thing. You could’ve gotten a mediocre 4th outfielder for him like Melky “who??” Cabrera. But Frank Wren wanted some teenager from the Caribbean who MIGHT put on a Braves uniform in 2015. That is, if he doesn’t meet the fate of hundreds of can’t miss prospects and gets hurt. So, he threw away his most consistent pitcher. Now, we’re stuck with Lowe who wants out. Oh, but we have a GREAT a-baller and money to throw around at someone like Xavier Nady or Laroche. Boy, those really answer that daunting question: How do the Braves get back to the World Series? Wren crapped himself on this one. Melky Cabrera stinks, his teenage sensation won’t do anything for at least 5 years, and once again the Braves are destined for a worthless “we ain’t tryin’ to win” 3rd place. Oh, but we’ll re-sign a broken down old man who hits singles to a lifetime contract at 3B. Just stupid. Liberty Media and Frank Wren are terrible. Thanks for ruining the Braves. What’s next, trading Brian McCann to LA for a backup 1B and a 16 yr old pitcher in the Dominican? Wren stinks….hello meaningless season. We may even drop behind the stinking Mets again!

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The braves screwed up again. Derek Lowe was overpaid by the Braves washout of a GM Frank Wren. My grandson is a better GM than Wren. While young talent is wasted in the minors years last year, Wren overplayed Lowe. Heyward and Hanson should have started here at the beginning of last year. When Heywerd is xhasing career records in 2029 the years Wren stole from him will be be remembered by the Heyward fans. We hate Wren with a passion. Someone order a United Van Lines for Wren now. Or call Worldwide Van Lines or Mayflower moving Vans. Please get him out of town, now. We can’t stand him. The Yankees would not touch him with a stick.Neither would the Red Sox or the Philadelphia Phillies. Or the Cardinals or the Dodgers. They consider him third rate at best. Send him the to Pittsburgh Pirates of the Kansas City Royals to work. Het him out of here.

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Enter your comments here

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Way to go Mr. Wren. You have sit on your duff again and have waited on all the good player to catch on with other teams. What you have gotten is players out of their prime with the exception of Cabrera. What will he hit next year as far as home runs. 10? We still want to see that lead off hitter that can get on base but I guess we will wait till next year righr?

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Jeff,
Can you please take this blog down. We are not trading Lowe anymore. We haven’t been for a couple weeks now! No need for this to still be up!

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