Lowe upset about trade talk, Braves need to move him
Last season didn't go as well as expected for Derek Lowe, and now the Braves may move him.
Even before Derek Lowe complained about being singled out for his struggles last season – and I’ll get to that in a minute – it was safe to assume the Braves were not going to get much for him in a trade. Now that he admits he’s miffed about the trade talk and has made the need for a deal a little more desperate, I’m sure they won’t get much.
Trade him anyway. It would be significant addition by subtraction.
Lowe, a relative bust as the Braves’ $60 million free agent last season, told Mark Bowman of MLB.com: “I’m just waiting for it to happen. I don’t think it’s a matter of if anymore. It’s just a matter of when.”
And then came the money quote (pun absolutely intended): “It kind of [upsets] you in a way. It’s well-documented that I stunk the last two months of the season. But I look at it as, ‘Am I the only guy who has struggled for a couple of months in his first season after signing as a free agent?’”
Lowe also said he is bothered that nobody from the organization has contacted him directly about a trade possibility.
Dude. Seriously?
The Braves didn’t exactly cozy up to franchise icons Tom Glavine or John Smoltz on their way out the door. How much good will does Lowe think he has built up? Besides, I would think his $15 million salary last season would buy a little therapy.
He went 7-3 with a 3.44 ERA in his first 13 starts. He fizzled to 8-7 and 5.59 in the next 21. Remember, the Braves got better in the second half, not worse.
Lowe was given No. 1 starter money. But by the last two months of the season, he looked like the rotation’s sixth most important pitcher (partly because of economics). Ahead of him: Javier Vazquez, Tommy Hanson, Jair Jurrjens, Kenshin Kawakami and Tim Hudson (back from surgery).
Before, the Braves wanted to dump him. Now, they almost have to dump him.
Vazquez would be easier to move because he’s entering his free agency year. But Vazquez (15-10, 2.87) is coming off a great season and Frank Wren wants Lowe’s contract off the books.
There are a lot of rumors flying around — not quite to the level of Georgia defensive coordinator rumors, but close. One has Lowe going to the Angels for outfielder Juan Rivera. Another has him headed to the Yankees for Nick Swisher.
Wren probably would jump at either. But I’m guessing he’d settle for a couple of prospects who don’t bruise so easily.
Just getting Lowe off the payroll would give Wren $10 million to $15 million to spend in free agency (or via trade). He needs that to strengthen the lineup.
It’s not like there’s zero upside to keeping Lowe. He has been a solid pitcher through his career. But the upside has significantly decreased.
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313 comments Add your comment
GSU89
December 17th, 2009
8:31 am
Orioles sign Mike Gonzalez and Garrett Atkins.
fieldofdreams
December 17th, 2009
8:32 am
I’m sure Lowe is a good guy who wants to prove his worth, but if we move him, Matt Holliday becomes affordable. PS: Jesus is Lord! Merry Christmas!
Rumors rumors...
December 17th, 2009
8:40 am
Did anyone actually watch the World Series this year? Nick Swisher SUCKS, if Wren pulls the trigger on that he’s a effin MORON. Wren never should have thrown all that money at Lowe as a 4th or 5th option for a #1 starter last off season.
Jeff, how much is Kawakami making and why no talk about dumping him?If Kawakami and Lowe are close in salary I’d rather have Lowe and his playoff experience than Kawakami although I still wish we went into last season with a bat rather than Lowe..
richtfan
December 17th, 2009
8:41 am
DEREK, bro, this is business. your era was above 4 last year, and that sinker didn’t do much. yes, you got 15 wins, which is admirable, but the $15 mil we’re shelling out just isn’t worth it. it’s a business deal, and we have less expensive prospects for this season.
BuckCommander
December 17th, 2009
8:44 am
If Lowe had preformed like me he would not have to worry about being traded. Oh well, we cant all be HOF material.
GSU89
December 17th, 2009
8:45 am
Myra- You said earlier that the Braves had done nothing to make you want to buy the first ticket to a ballgame this year THEN ask why we’re not signing Johnny Damon???????? Just because someone plays for the Yankees and is on TV ALL the time doesn’t make them worth 13M per year. And quite possibly the worst outfield arm in all of baseball. Yes, probably even weaker than Juan Pierre’s.
jsatt32
December 17th, 2009
8:46 am
Lowe won 15 games because for some reason the only times the Braves offense showed up was when Lowe pitched. Lowe even made the comment mid-season he felt sorry for JJ and couldn’t explain the difference in run support. Think if Lowe would have gotten the run support our other starters did. He wouldn’t have won 5 games. Lowe’s best and only decent start came on opening day last year.
Carlton
December 17th, 2009
8:47 am
I still wish people could mature a lit bit and not write “first” like they are in elementary school…
tampabrave
December 17th, 2009
8:47 am
Schultz,
You are a noise maker, that’s all. Lowe didn’t perform that far from his norm. When the Braves signed him, we knew what he was and he performed close to that. Did we expect him to all of a sudden go 25-4 with a 1.45 ERA? No, we just wanted a solid pitcher who wins. Sure he struggled down the stretch, but this guy’s body of work deserves more credit than some useless critic’s public flogging. I understand the business side of baseball, but he deserves better than your diatribe. Wherever he goes, you can bet that he’ll win 15 games. I only hope that we can look at our staff after next season and say that we had3 or 4 guys with that many wins. If we don’t, then perhaps we should look back to this trade and lament.
Random
December 17th, 2009
8:47 am
Jeff Schultz: “Vazquez would be easier to move because he’s entering his free agency year.”
This statement is utterly senseless — Vazquez might be easier to move than Lowe, but that ain’t why.
Vazquez would be even easier to move if he had TWO years left under a $11-12M/year contract, and easier than that with three years left, etc.
In fact your whole point is totally bogus imo — nothing Lowe could say would lessen his trade value. (Within reason — if he confessed to PEDs, or said his arm fell off the last two months of the season — well of course stuff like that would affect his value.)
But otherwise? Nah.
The givens are his contract $ and years, and his performance last year and over his career.
The variables are how many teams want a pitcher, how much and for how long, and the perceptions of his performance.
What he has to say, especially if he’s happy or frustrated with his current nebulous situation, would have absolutely no bearing on it.
EW
December 17th, 2009
8:48 am
As long as we trade for offense I am happy. If we trade D Lowe for a someone who can’t hit for power we might as well not trade him.
bvillebaron
December 17th, 2009
8:48 am
Give me a break, Jeff. Lowe has every right to be upset about trade talks if he wants to stay. Just because he is unhappy isn’t a justification for “dumping him” for less than what he could bring in return. This guy is a veteran who understands the business. Believe me, if he doesn’t get traded, he’s not going to “tank it” because he is upset. He is the type of competitor who will want to prove eveyone wrong. Columns like this are flat out STUPID!
EW
December 17th, 2009
8:50 am
Also JS. Saw some news on Boston maybe adding a bat to the lineup and Theo says that it’s easier to add a bat during the season than a pitcher. What are your thoughts on D Lowe starting with us but then being used as trade bait?
Jim
December 17th, 2009
8:52 am
Why is no one worried about third base? Chipper was awful last year. He cost us a number of games with his inept hitting and defensive errors and lapses.This is compounded with him hitting in the third spot. And a huge contract to boot. I am afraid he is a real liablity at this point.
Realist
December 17th, 2009
8:53 am
There’s a pattern here. Frank Wren all but announces he is going to trade a player, the rest of the league therefore decides the braves have no leverage and Wren winds up giving the guy away. I’m sure the Braves will wind up trading Lowe for another middle reliever with an ERA over 4.50 AND the braves will eat half his salary. Pathetic. Nice job, Frank.
Papadawg
December 17th, 2009
8:53 am
The people who write first probably don’t have much of a life and will be celebrated his feat all day long
o-me
December 17th, 2009
9:03 am
The more YOU (blogs) cut down LOWE= The Less Braves can get for him?
BORAS= BIG PROBLEM! stay away from him.
EW
December 17th, 2009
9:04 am
Jim..I have been worried about Chipper since we overpaid him on his current 3 yr extension. He is going to be 40 when the contract ends and is always battling some sort of injury. I suspect he played hurt most of last season, leading to the falloff in numbers. I understand loyalty to CJ and he’s one of my favorites but it’s not Chipper’s fault for taking the money, it was a poor move on Wren’s part to offer so much.
o-me
December 17th, 2009
9:05 am
U-r-right Papadawg! I’m # 119 and don’t give a rip.
Random
December 17th, 2009
9:07 am
Rumors rumors… (December 17th, 2009 8:40 am): “Did anyone actually watch the World Series this year? Nick Swisher SUCKS, if Wren pulls the trigger on that he’s a effin MORON.”
Dude, you’re the MORON if you think you can validly evaluate a player based on 5 games and 19 Plate Appearances. (Or even 24 Gs and 89 PAs — his entire postseason experience.)
Swisher’s performance over 700+ games and 3000+ PAs is a better basis for judging his perfromance.
“Jeff, how much is Kawakami making”
JFGI.
” and why no talk about dumping him?”
Kawakami will not be traded. (Let alone “dumped”.)
“If Kawakami and Lowe are close in salary “
Cheese whiz, kid, Lowe is making 2 and a quarter times what Kawakami is pulling down ($15M v $6.667M).
Sheesh — what a maroon.
Bob Barker
December 17th, 2009
9:16 am
fieldofdreams at 8:32am -
Jesus is not lord. He is a false messiah. The immaculate conception was really the immaculate deception. Time will bear this out.
NVJay
December 17th, 2009
9:17 am
Throw Nate the Not So Great in with him and see if we can get bats, balls & a few helmets as well
Random
December 17th, 2009
9:20 am
Realist (December 17th, 2009 8:53 am): “There’s a pattern here. Frank Wren all but announces he is going to trade a player, the rest of the league therefore decides the braves have no leverage and Wren winds up giving the guy away. I’m sure the Braves will wind up trading Lowe for another middle reliever with an ERA over 4.50 AND the braves will eat half his salary. Pathetic. Nice job, Frank.”
There is no “pattern”.
The Braves had already decided to part ways with Soriano — they had already replaced him.
What would you rather have gotten for Soriano:
a) nothing? That’s what the Braves would have gotten if they did not offer him arbitration.
b) two 2nd round (more or less) draft picks? That’s what the Braves would have gotten if he had declined arbitration and signed with another team.
c) a flame-throwing Major League pitcher with a killer change-up? That’s what the Braves got.
I guarantee you that the odds are way less than 50% that one of the draft picks the Braves might have gotten would be good enough to make a ML roster. (And how long might that take, anyway?)
The Braves came out ahead with getting Chavez. Certainly, at least, in the short term.
Cry about something else for a while. Wren has done helluva as GM job so far.
PS: And it’s still not a given that Lowe will be traded rather than Vazquez.
athensmatt
December 17th, 2009
9:20 am
Lowe has every right to be upset, but not at the Braves.
Schultz: as you put it, he was making ace money, but performing as a #5 starter. Every time the Braves play, you want them to go out fielding the best possible team. But when you look at the starting lineups, and you see Derek Lowe penciled in as the starter, you don’t know what to expect. Jurrjens? Gonna be a close game because for some reason the Braves don’t give him much run support. Hanson? Can’t wait for that game to start. Lowe? Who’s he pitching against? Because there are too many factors that come into play, like are the Braves playing in a hitters’ stadium, who is the opposing starter, does the lineup have any backups starting, etc.
Why would Lowe be upset with Atlanta? Wren has never said “We’re gonna trade Lowe.” All he’s said is that the Braves plan to trade a starting pitcher. It could very well be Vazquez because Lowe is going to be extremely hard to get rid of. Should he be upset because the Braves haven’t come and talked to him? To say what, exactly? That his name has come up in trade discussions? If I had to guess, I would say that over half of the players in MLB come up in trade discussions at some point over the offseason, and we only hear a small percentage in the Hot Stove world. But because Lowe has been a main topic in that area, he assumes he is going to be traded.
Sorry, Lowe, you don’t have a reason to be upset at the Braves. You have plenty of reasons to be upset (ERA, BAA, K/BB ratio just to name a few), but not at the Braves. Talk about being traded after you’ve been traded. It hasn’t happened yet, and there’s no guarantee that it will.
Rumors rumors...
December 17th, 2009
9:21 am
So you think Nick Swisher is good then I take it? Moron statement of the year to you sir, congrats. No matter what way you look at it Nick Swisher SUCKS. May as well have kept Ryan Church. At least he’ll have a cheaper price tag…
I wasn’t sure about the salary which is why I asked. At $7M a season I see why he would not be mentioned although I wouldn’t be surprised if at the end of next season there is talk about moving him.
I’m glad we have YOU statboy to keep us all in line…
LG
December 17th, 2009
9:26 am
It makes perfect sense for the Braves and the Angels to work out a deal at this point. The Angels have slipped behind the Mariners and maybe the Rangers in the AL west and with Lackey going to Boston and Lee to the Mariners they have to do something at this point to stay competitive in the AL. Lowe to the Yankees for Swisher would be a great deal for the Braves but even the talk of it could make the Angels up an offer.
Why aren’t the Braves trying to get involved with the Padres to talk about getting Adrian Gonzalez? I don’t care who you had to give up this guy is young and a stud and signed cheap for the next 2 years. I could see trading Jair Jurrjens for him and if you could work out an extention throw in Freeman, this guy is that good. I love Jurrjens but he is a Boras client so soon you are going to have to fork over big bucks to keep him or watch him sign somewhere else and really his trade value is probably at his peak right now.
ChrisfromSacramento
December 17th, 2009
9:30 am
Trade Lowe for some baseballs.Remember Lightenburg. I dont care what the Braves get.Dump the contract.Get us a hitter PLEASE!!!
Noah
December 17th, 2009
9:36 am
Its interesting that in baseball today no one wants to trade for a star with only 1 year before free agency and most teams don’t want to trade for those with a big long term contract. Further, those that are free agents and rank at the top for a given offseason market get top dollar even if they don’t compare to the other top players. John Lackey is not the same player as CC Sabathia for instance.
The cheap young guys have become much more valuable, every team needs them at several positions to be able to afford the expensive veteran stars.
Noah
December 17th, 2009
9:37 am
Jurrjens is a Boras guy but he should be under club control for another 3 or 4 years at least. Can someone verify this?
Sonny Clusters
December 17th, 2009
9:48 am
We was not happy when they was talking trade about us, either. Then, boom! They traded us to the Mets. Let’s hope they get something back this time. We was thinking Chipper is getting a little old and slow for the hot corner and even if he’s wearing support hose this year he’s gonna have injury problems. Is they an American League team that needs a DH that can still hit a little? One that could send us some players?
Quantavious
December 17th, 2009
9:50 am
Lowe got the first like 6 batters he faced last season out in two pitches. We should have traded him then. Lowe has a point though. Other pitchers have had a rough couple of months and gone on to take names. I hope Wren makes the right moves. He should remember last seasons moves and always go with his second instinct. (Raffy, Griffey, there were others but I’m only on my first Low Fat Egg Nog Latte/ with a touch of Madagascar Cinnimon).
j
December 17th, 2009
9:52 am
JD,
I seriously hope you are not talking about Kelly Johnson? He is absolutely horrible and I am glad he is gone. I really don’t think he could start for most college teams. How many games has he lost single handily?
matt
December 17th, 2009
9:54 am
A couple of things. Lowe gets paid a lot, no doubt. We need some offense, no doubt. However, if Vasquez is a FA after this year will we be able to resign him??? If not, why not keep Lowe (we have him for 5 more years I think) and deal Vasquez. We should be able to get more for him anyway.
We need a REAL oontributor in this lineup. If we’re going to give up Lowe to make a run at a Holliday or a Bay then I’m all for it. If we’re going to get rid of Lowe to sign the next Garrett Anderson then hell no. Especially if we aren’t going to be able to resign Vasquez!!
Jeff Schultz
December 17th, 2009
9:54 am
Sonny — Sorry to disappoint you but Chipper’s not going anywhere. But it worked out OK for Jeff, huh?
dap01
December 17th, 2009
9:55 am
Bob Barker is an idiot!
Frank Wren should not disclose that he is desperate to trade a starter or anyone else (Soriano), he loses all leverage.
World Be Free
December 17th, 2009
9:56 am
$15M CRYBABY-just go out and earn your money. Players and agents keep saying it’s a business until the business effects them.
Sonny Clusters
December 17th, 2009
9:57 am
Jeff, we was sure somebody’d want Chipper. All the Buck Commanders are going to be gone and Chipper is going to be lonely. Whatever happened to Langerhans?
Random
December 17th, 2009
9:57 am
Jim (December 17th, 2009 8:52 am): “Why is no one worried about third base? Chipper was awful last year. He cost us a number of games with his inept hitting and defensive errors and lapses.This is compounded with him hitting in the third spot. And a huge contract to boot. I am afraid he is a real liablity at this point.”
It’s pretty clear you have no idea what you’re talking about.
Do you?
Which specific games did he lose for the Braves? Or are you just making that up?
Whose contract is “huger” — Jones’ or Jeter’s? Who ’s more of a liability to his team — Jones or Jeter?
Here’s Jones’ performance the last five years:
Jones 2005: .296/.412/.556/.968
Jones 2006: .324/.409/.596/1.005
Jones 2007: .337/.425/.604/1.029
Jones 2008: .364/.470/.574/1.044
Jones 2009 (thru Jul): .287/.407/.481/.888
Jones 2009: .264/.388/.430/.818
Until the last two months, Jones was performing as well or better in 2009 than Derek Jeter (.321/.397/.454/.851).
And compare Jones’ 2009 season to Derek Jeter’s 2008 season:
Jones 2009: .264/.388/.430/.818
Jeter 2008: .300/.363/.408/.771
Jeter’s 2008 OBP was 25 points lower than Jones’ 2009 OBP, and Jeter’s 2008 SLG was 22 points lower than Jones’ 2009 SLG.
That is, Jeter in 2008 was worse than Jones in 2009. But was anyone calling Jeter a liability? Not that I recall. Not even though Jeter’s performance over the last five years (except for the last two months of this season) has been notably inferior to Jones’.
Imo, it’s just way too soon to say that Jones is washed up, after only two months worth of data at the tail end of a long and arduous season in which he played more games than he had in six years, and in which he had very little protection behind him in the line-up.
Jones played in more games (143) this year than he has in any year since 2003.
And Jones played in more games for the Braves (143) than anyone else this year, and had more Plate Appearances for the Braves (596) than anyone else but Escobar (604).
He ain’t dead yet.
PS: Just for Gee Whizzes:
Tthese are the awards Jeter’s won over thae past five years — and Jones has been better than Jeter over that span:
2006 Baseball Digest Player of the Year Award
2006 Hank Aaron Award
2006 Silver Slugger Award (American League)
2006 TYIB: Hitter of the Year Award
2007 Silver Slugger Award (American League)
2009 Hank Aaron Award
2009 Roberto Clemente Man of the Year Award
2009 Sportsman of the Year Award
Jones got no awards over the past five years.
Finally, how much was Jones paid over the last five years? $67M.
How much for Jeter? $105M.
Daniel
December 17th, 2009
10:04 am
Jeff-
I am hoping that other teams see the value in Lowe and would be willing to give us a position player and salary relief. However, if your feelings are true that his trade value is plummeting (I disagreee after Lackey signed) then the reality is that KK becomes a better trade piece than Lowe. I mean if the Braves are not going to get anything of value in return for Lowe, they certainly can get nothing in return for KK and you save salary and keep a guy that has proven he is an A level pitcher, just had one rough season.
I am not saying don’t trade Lowe, but if the value in return is minimal except salary dump, then Wren might as well dump KK salary.
LG
December 17th, 2009
10:04 am
Noah
Found this:
“Entering his third full season in the Majors, Jurrjens will not be able to file for free agency until after the 2013 season. However, starting in 2011, Jurrjens will enter the first of three arbitration eligible seasons and will receive a nice pay raise at the end of each year.”
I think the Braves have 2 big problems and one is obvious, The Braves have to find another power hitter to protect Chipper and Brian but what I think is just as big a problem is that the Braves have 6 RIGHT handed starters. If they go into the season without a left handed starter they better get 2 or 3 big bats because they are going to need to score a lot of runs to win the division.
coach smith
December 17th, 2009
10:05 am
If you can get Nick Swisher for Lowe….DO IT NOW
Also try to tempt the with Jordan Schafer, Freddie Freeman, and Medlen for ADRIAN GONZALES
JS
December 17th, 2009
10:05 am
I bet John Smoltz would have at least performed equally to Lowe..Smoltz would’ve cost you 1 to 2 million..13 mil left for the big bat..Hummm
Noah
December 17th, 2009
10:08 am
Thanks LG.
I think its over analyzing to say that you can’t win because your pitchers aren’t balanced lefty and righty. Sure its nice but if you have good pitchers your going to win. I’d be more concerned with staying healthy and having a good bullpen which can be iffy year to year for almost any team.
Random
December 17th, 2009
10:08 am
j (December 17th, 2009 9:52 am): “I seriously hope you are not talking about Kelly Johnson? He is absolutely horrible and I am glad he is gone. I really don’t think he could start for most college teams. How many games has he lost single handily?”
Here’s a different opinon on Johnson from someone a lot smarter than you, kid. Try to learn something. (As for you final question, the answer is “zero”. It’s a team game, numbnuts.)
From Baseball Prospectus’ Joe Sheehan:
“Among the others [who were non-tendered], I get most excited about Kelly Johnson, who had a lost season while Martin Prado had a strong one, making Johnson a luxury. Johnson didn’t hit as well as he had in ‘08, with line drives turning into fly balls, but the result, a nearly 100-point loss in BABIP that destroyed his rate stats, wasn’t entirely reflective of how he played. Given the wrist injury he played through and loss of his regular status early in the year, I’m inclined to look at his 2009 and give him a mulligan. Johnson is a .270/.340/.440 guy who can play second base at about an average level. He does have experience in left field and can play some third base, so he’s useful as a bench option. Of the newly-minted free agents, he strikes me as the one likely to have the most value in ‘10. The Dodgers need a second baseman, and any number of bad teams like the Padres, Nationals, and Pirates could be improved with the addition of Johnson.”
Noah
December 17th, 2009
10:09 am
Need to give more then Shafer, Freeman and Medlen to get Gonzales. Remember many other teams are going after him including Boston, Seattle etc who have some good pieces to offer.
JeanE
December 17th, 2009
10:11 am
Dump the sweathog! I never saw a guy sweat more (literally and figuratively) than D. Lowe. Quite whining you overpaid bum! If we could dump him, I’d jump for joy. A. Gonzalez at first would be a dream, it’ll never happen!
lexbrave
December 17th, 2009
10:12 am
ah life would be so much easier if the braves were just the yanks or red sox.. then they would never have to move a player because of a bad contract. they could just go out and get whomever they want with another bad contract.
coach smith
December 17th, 2009
10:13 am
Noah
I don’t know. That is a top Pitching prospect, firstbase prospect (to replace Gonzales) and a top CF prospect
You could maybe toss in a Brandon Jones or something like that for good measure
It is going to be hard for any other team to match that many TOP prospects
The word from the Red Sox is Elsbury is not going and that any trade would be Cla Buckholtz and a couple of ither unnamed prospects
Don
December 17th, 2009
10:13 am
First of all – if the Braves are going to trade Lowe – I disagree that they will not be able to get much for him – if they will be patient. The fact that Pitching is by far the most important element in baseball – and there will be some teams who will become desperate for Pitching and who will be willing to take a chance on Lowe and will be willing to give up some talent go get him.
Secondly, we do not need to trade or give up Pitching. We will end up with one or more of our projected starters being injured or being ineffective. And – With Bobby Cox managing, the only slim possible chance we have of winning the Division is to have Pitching so far, far superior to the other teams that it overcomes his management procedures and lack thereof and enables the Braves to win in spite of him.
Ted Striker
December 17th, 2009
10:15 am
I say trade him for 2-3 of Tiger’s chickies.
As an aside, I don’t know much about Elin, but darned if I don’t have a lot of respect for her.