Forbes unkind to Thrashers, Falcons (UPDATED)
This has nothing to do with hockey, but it sums things up. That's former Hawks GM Billy Knight not shaking Steve Belkin's hand.
(UPDATE FROM ATLANTA SPIRIT’S MICHAEL GEARON BELOW.)
This might seem like a random question: But do you care what your sports franchises are worth?
I ask because Forbes Magazine just came out with NHL franchise values, and the Thrashers are ranked 29th out of 30 teams — and the only team behind them is the Phoenix Coyotes, who went into bankruptcy in May and are now operated by the league.
Forbes values the Thrashers at $143 million. “The owners of the Atlanta Thrashers [who also control the NBA's Hawks] have spent more time fighting with each other than their hockey team has with its opponents,” the article states. “The franchise has been forced to give bundles of tickets away to fill seats.”
The magazine, in a financial breakdown of the team, later references the lawsuits between the Atlanta Spirit owners, saying: “A nasty and continuous legal battle amongst the eight owners over the value of the Atlanta Thrashers and Hawks, along with Philips Arena [Atlanta Spirit, LLC owns all three entities], has resulted in the team turning to Goldman Sachs for investors. Seven of the eight owners want to buy out Steve Belkin but thought his $143 million asking price for his 30% stake in the assets was far too steep. The owners have spent over $10 million in legal fees and the team has run significant net losses the past two seasons because it has missed the playoffs.”
Arthur Blank is forcing a smile, because the Falcons rank only 30th out of 32 teams in franchise value.
The Belkin matter may finally be nearing a resolution, as his recent losses in court to the other owners may finally prompt him to sell his stake in the franchises and arena.
Forbes rates franchise values annually (with teams often disputing the numbers). Generally speaking, Atlanta teams don’t do well. The financial ranking of NFL franchises came out in September and the Falcons ranked only 30th at $856 million. Yes, that’s a lot for you and me. But when five teams are valued at over $1 billion, led by the Dallas Cowboys at $1.5 billion, it’s easy to say why owner Arthur Blank is pushing for a new stadium, where he can generate more revenue than the Georgia Dome.
Forbes on the Falcons: “Led by rookie QB Matt Ryan the Falcons took the league by surprise last season, posting an 11-5 record and qualifying for the post-season. But that was not enough to overcome the loss of home town favorite Michael Vick and the recession. The Falcons drew just over 500,000 fans to the Georgia Dome last year — down 6% from 2007 — ranking 25th in the NFL overall. Also, Delta Air Lines, one of the team’s bigger sponsors, decided not to renew its contract this March. Given this backdrop, it is easy to understand why owner Arthur Blank sold a small piece of the team to four investors in July. Blank’s franchise has maxed out its valuation at the Georgia Dome and his chances of getting a new stadium are close to zero.”
Forbes has not valued NBA teams since December of 2008, when the Hawks came in at No. 21 ($306 million). NBA teams generally are worth more than NHL teams because of revenue from national television contracts that hockey doesn’t have.
Of Atlanta’s four pro sports teams, the Braves fared the best at 11th overall in Forbes’ survey in April. But their value of $446 million still ranked far behind the expected top teams: New York Yankees ($1.5 billion), New York Mets ($912 million) and Boston Red Sox ($833 million).
So here’s my question: Do you care about this? A case certainly can be made that franchise values feeds into owners’ spending habits and, therefore, the quality of the product. Let me know what you think and I’ll check back.
Michael Gearon: Not a fan of Forbes' researchers.
(UPDATE: Atlanta Spirit Michael Gearon emailed the following response when I asked him about the Forbes’ article and valuation.)
“I have great respect for Forbes as a premier business magazine but I have always viewed Forbes attempt at estimating sports teams values or peoples’ net worth as purely entertainment for its readers. I have never been able to reconcile where Forbes gets their financial information for sports values or for that matter peoples’ net worth. Is Trump really worth $2 billion as Forbes claims, or is it a lot less, which is what the NY Times claims. With respect to your 3 [questions], my comments are below:
1. Forbes financial information is not accurate. For example, the Thrashers don’t have any debt and the financial information doesn’t reconcile to ours. In addition, I have no idea where Forbes came up with our purchase price for the Thrashers as $80 million.
2. Does the ranking surprise me? I haven’t given it much thought except to say that it is the same as the Atlanta Falcons. Is the ranking a reflection on how they are run? I think Arthur Blank’s answer to that question would be no.
3. We have worked hard to separate the Belkin issue from either management or the teams. The Hawks have improved every year we have owned the franchise and are currently ranked in the top 6 in the NBA based on the start to our season. With respect to Thrashers, I had strong concerns last February; however, once [Ilya Kovalchuk] became captain and we made some trades, we had a very strong finish. I like our core young players as well as the addition of [Rick] Dudley in the front office. We are playing .500 hockey, are 5-2-1 on the road against some good teams and our franchise player has been out for 3 weeks.
With respect to Belkin, we had a major victory in court. The benefit to that win is that I have been able to sleep better at night. It certainly hasn’t impacted Kovy or Joe Johnson’s sleep. In other words, this has impacted us personally and it is not an issue that has impacted decisions we have made with either franchise. It seems that writers want to continue keeping this issue in the news when it was a 2005 story.
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90 comments Add your comment
GWH Rich
November 12th, 2009
8:21 am
First, for what it’s worth! … ?
Slick Willie
November 12th, 2009
8:31 am
Not worth much.
cricket
November 12th, 2009
8:33 am
First on Atlanta blog – worth nuthin according to Forbes.
And no, I don’t care about this.
Justin Fan
November 12th, 2009
8:34 am
The Spirits’ losses further explains their downgraded sanitation crew, inferior food service and by golly they haven’t fixed or replaced their overhead scoreboard on the Hawkwalk in over four seasons. My family and I and check it when we come to games and the Spirit never disappoints. Can’t fix a scoreboard or the general mgmt. of the Thrashers.
Jeff Schultz
November 12th, 2009
8:42 am
Cricket — You’re correct. I don’t think Forbes values comments. They’re no fun.
Justin Fan — That’s interesting. I didn’t know about the broken scoreboard in Hawkswalk, I guess because I’m never over in that area.
the truth....
November 12th, 2009
8:49 am
So who cares? What difference does it make who Forbes or anyone else says the team is worth? What matters in value is winning…..win enough and the team will increase in value….but if you aren’t selling, what difference does it make?
Paul H
November 12th, 2009
8:54 am
Winning comes first. Everything else falls into place after that.
DJ
November 12th, 2009
8:57 am
How about a little perspective here Jeff? Arthur Blank bought the Falcons for $545M in 2002. So, in 7 years Mr. Blank has seen a better than 50% increase in the value of his investment.
Not bad for a property that hit “rock bottom” during those 7 years. And this has been done without boning the loyal season ticket holders by forcing seats-rights fees down our throats.
In order to keep up with the Jones’ (literally), Mr. Blank will need to charge us $10,000 or more PER SEAT for our right to buy our seats in a new stadium.
I hope Mr. Blank remembers those of us that have supported the team since before he got here and refrain from gouging us in order to enhance the value of his holdings.
falcon 71
November 12th, 2009
9:04 am
means nothing what determines willingness to spend for players is profit not estimated worth. also desire but i imagine all owners execpt Detroit have this
bmoney
November 12th, 2009
9:13 am
franchise value means nothing. tell me what the p&l looks like.
btw – how much of dallas’ $1.5B value is a result of taxpayers subsidies of the new Jerry Dome?
And didn't...
November 12th, 2009
9:14 am
…the new Cowboys stadium cost $1.2bil? So, if the Cowboys are valued at $1.5bil, doesn’t that include the stadium since Jones owns it as part of the Cowboys?
Seems like either Forbes may be falling down on their evaluations (likely since they had an article this past summer that said West Point was the best college in the U.S.) or Jerry Jones is pulling another good one!
Hillbilly Deluxe
November 12th, 2009
9:15 am
Since I don’t have any piece of the ownership in any professional sports team, why should I care? They are just another business competing for the coinsumer dollar.
Hillbilly Deluxe
November 12th, 2009
9:16 am
Consumer dollars too.
PMC
November 12th, 2009
9:17 am
The Falcons have a bad stadium deal. It’s horrific actually. If Arthur would build his own stadium that was owned and operated by the Falcons he would have a much greater value. He has built one of the best team complexes in the league already.
Building stadiums with public money is just a stupid idea. Have some testicles and build your own.
Also, Delta Air Lines runs an abysmal buisness model. It’s been a horribly run airline since the 1980’s. I’d say the Falcons are just as pleased being sponsored by Air Tran.
Ultimately the rest of the world treats this town like it is some cow pasture anyway. Linda Cohn’s beloved Yankees didn’t sell out WS games… didn’t see that on ESPN.
The Braves are the only team with a championship and they had to beat CLEVELAND (even though that was an incredible team) to win 1 out of 14 tries.
Generally the higher value teams are teams with history, where people are emotionally invested generationally. Our teams (exception Braves) are supported by a small group of passionate fans and then a lot of folks who grew up fans of other teams who get wrapped up with an exciting player or playoff push.
They are still getting a rather modest return on thier investments anyway in a town that doesn’t really care much about pro sports and the ASG has just embarassed themselves since thier inception.
bugman
November 12th, 2009
9:21 am
Well, that explains alot at bluesland. No dough = no show.
Kiss Kovy goodbye next year. I only hope that facilitates the departure of D-Wadd.
Can’t speak for the Hawks but I trust that the product that Blank brings to the table will allow us to retain quality players to keep the Falcons on a winning track.
Then comes the new stadium.
I do beleive that the more value your franchise holds, the more $ you have to play with thus more PRESENCE in the league. Once you have established that cycle…Case in point = Dallas.
Conservative White Male
November 12th, 2009
9:22 am
I am concerned that no one cares about the tony gonzalez nudity situation. is this something we want our kids to see? how do I explain it to my kids when their heroes go around naked?
I thought gonzalez was a good guy but I guess he is another arrogant thug whod does what he wants to
F-105 Thunderchief
November 12th, 2009
9:22 am
Can you say Los Angeles Falcons?
F-105 Thunderchief
November 12th, 2009
9:28 am
Off topic, but I doubt anyone would care … that October Gonzalez is one beautiful woman.
EW
November 12th, 2009
9:32 am
We’ve known ownership has stunk across the board, save Mr. Blank. This just proves it again. Wish they would realize that you gotta spend some to make some.
EW
November 12th, 2009
9:34 am
Also, it’s amazing to me that the Falcons play in a Dome…We’re in the SOUTH! Who wants to spend a beautiful Sunday afternoon in the Fall inside?
Supes
November 12th, 2009
9:37 am
Can you say Los Angeles Falcons?
*****************************
Not before you say…
L.A. Jaguars
L.A. Raiders
Falcons aren’t going anywhere. Hopefully King Arthur will have a new stadium built outside of the downtown area of ATL. Build an outdoor, 55,000-60-000 seat stadium, play on grass…the way football was meant to be played, esp. in the south!
Another Conservative White Male
November 12th, 2009
9:41 am
To Conservative White Male:
Please keep your opinion to yourself. Tony Gonzalez is a high character roll-model that Falcons fans should appreciate and embrace, not ridicule. His advertisement was for a good cause, not for some sleazy magazine or a pathetic PR stunt. Do not hide behind that screen name, because your ignorance leads to false stereotypes of conservative white males (like me).
Hillbilly Deluxe
November 12th, 2009
9:49 am
If Arthur Blank wants a new stadium, he needs to pay for it with private money. Not one dime of taxpayer funds.
T
November 12th, 2009
9:50 am
I do care. Correct me if I’m wrong but Forbes seems slam Atlanta every chance it gets. I saw a post yersterday about Forbes saying Atlanta is most toxic us city. I don’t know anything about it because I did not care to read it. However, back to the Spirit, it is probably good news for the ownership who are negotiating as low a price as possible to buy out Belkin. At the end of the day it probably does’t matter. Life in Atlanta is good. Go Hawks!
UGASlobberknocker
November 12th, 2009
9:54 am
As long as the Keystone Cops operate the Hawks and Thrashers wont be able to compete with the top teams, thus their value is not likely to improve.. I care that the teams arent top shelf and wont be anytime; not so much how that affects value. Neither team is moving so who cares?gif they want fans to come, put a better product out there.and I know the Hawks are doing OK right now but that doesnt change anythi9ng really.
Boo Boo
November 12th, 2009
9:59 am
How much are the Georgia Bulldogs worth these days?
Mike MC
November 12th, 2009
10:02 am
I too have been shocked at the condition of Phillips Arena the past few seasons. I remember going on a tour when the arena first opened and I was awed by how beautiful it was. It seems that it is falling apart at the seems. I’m not sure if its Phillips, or the Spirit Group, but please fix the wall of Phillips TVS that lead down the escalator. They are all broken because they are from like 1999!! I think Phillips is doing a serious disservice to their products. The state of the arena’s technology has my questioning if I’ll ever buy a Phillips again. At least the Hawks are playing well, which for me is what is most important.
Bubba
November 12th, 2009
10:03 am
You know, it’s interesting that the team that wins consistently in Atlanta (the Braves) is the team with the highest value. Don’t know ’bout y’all, but I think the value of a product is in direct proportion to the quality of the product. I’d have a lot more sympathy for Arthur and for the Spirit Group if they would work harder to deliver a product that consistent value – winning. Look at the top teams – Cowboys, Yankees. They’re winners. So don’t come to me, the consumer, crying about how poor your revenue stream if you can’t – or won’t – provide a product that’s worth me investing money and time to enjoy the experience. I think Forbes has very good and legitimate reasons for slamming Atlanta.
In-city Falcon Fan
November 12th, 2009
10:04 am
I disagree with Blank funding the stadium entirely by himself… He should fund a majority of it, but it is unrealistic to think he could pay for a stadium entirely by himself. If he attempts to do so, they only ones that will suffer are Falcons fans because a watered down stadium would result. The Dome is a substandard stadium that has little to no allure. Build and outdoor stadium (or at least with a retractable roof) and enjoy the weather of Atlanta. At this point the Dome has only been able to lure large sporting events (Chic-fil-a Bowl, SEC championship, etc.) because of the city’s offerings and geographic location. If a replacement is not planned in the next few years, even the city’s appeal will not be strong enough to lure these events. We have already seen this with the NFL denying us repeatedly for the Super Bowl. Slightly off topic, but unless the stadium is replaced, Atlanta can kiss it’s chance goodbye of being a World Cup event host (and the million upon millions of dollars that would bring the city).
Bubba
November 12th, 2009
10:06 am
I mean, I’m not gonna by a Kia at Lexus prices. Make a Lexus, then we’ll talk about team value.
DJ
November 12th, 2009
10:25 am
Do any of you new stadium ppl know about the current economics of the NFL or any other major sport? Being on top means charging your fans for the right to buy seats. That is why the Yankees can’t sell out WS games; you cannot go to the stadium and buy a ticket. You must pay to get in line to buy a ticket.
So all of you “new stadium” ppl how much do you think I – a season ticket supporter since the ATL-Fulton County Stadium days – should pay for your right to watch sold out games on TV?
Jeff Schultz
November 12th, 2009
10:48 am
Conservative White Male: Grow up.
Najeh Davenpoop
November 12th, 2009
11:05 am
Forbes magazine once ranked Kevin McHale as the best general manager in sports.
Needless to say their rankings haven’t had an ounce of credibility to me ever since.
In-city Falcon Fan
November 12th, 2009
11:07 am
DJ, maybe you should read the below article. An average operating income of 30.8 million is not exactly struggling in this economy. If we are pleased with the status quo, we as a city will struggle to grow and prosper down the road. The stadium is a significant draw for numerous sporting events for the city, not just the Falcons. If we do not maintain that competitive edge we will fall behind.
From a business standpoint, the worst thing you can do is maintain status quo during economic downturns. This may not mean making the major investment now, but it means planning for it now. For the Falcons and the city, it would be wise to plan for that with a new stadium. Just look at some of the major Atlanta businesses and how they are operating in this poor economy. THD, major investment in overhauling their supply chain; Coca Cola, introduction of a new innovative and advanced coke machine; Delta, merging with Northwest airlines to create the worlds largest airline; etc. You can not emerge from these downturns stronger if you do not invest in improvement or at least plan these investments during these times of struggle.
And yes, my family purchases season tickets for the Falcons (since the Dome’s inaugural season), along with tickets for the numerous events the Dome hosts.
http://www.forbes.com/2006/08/31/paul-tagliabue-nfl_cz_mo_06nfl_0831nflintro.html
Boneyard Randy
November 12th, 2009
11:22 am
Philips is a little dated now. The outer scoreboard that shows (bball) the starters from each team w/ pts, rbs, asts and fouls looks like it’s from the 80s. it’s difficult to tell 8s from 3s and 7s from 9s. Let’s get some LCD tech up there…it can’t be too expensive to replace. I pay no creedence to these national mags that attempt to value/assess cities they have spent maybe a few days in. And, keep the Falcons stadium downtown if we end up building a new one. Hack off the roof of the Dome and we’re all good.
Peter
November 12th, 2009
11:33 am
Come on now Jeff…….if you had a business that was loosing money……. Would you be highly ranked ?
Don’t you know the Atlanta Spirit looses money EVERY YEAR, and is poorly run from top to bottom ?
As a guy who has done some business with them in the past…..they are not great folks to work with !
Reality Strikes
November 12th, 2009
11:53 am
Atlanta has a basketball team?? The reason the dome doesn’t generate much revenue is because look at the surrounding neighborhood. Who would want to go down into that $hithole? All the bums around the stadium make for a huge turnoff. Put the stadium in Gwinnett and watch the value (and attendance) take off.
gcs
November 12th, 2009
11:58 am
Jeff, I wish you or someone at the AJC would take in a Thrashers game the way an average fan does:
First, go up to the box office and deal with the grouchy people there who act like you have interrupted their family dinner to purchase tickets. It doesn’t even have to be game day to have this joyful experience.
Next, the ticket takers and ushers are nice enough but often the ushers are just checking your tickets and point you to a vicinity.
You can sit and watch the game but you might want some ear plugs for all the music and stupid announcements.
Now, comes the fun part. Get up and go to the concessions at least twice. Take a stopwatch with you. With a recession and 10% unemployment you’d expect that these people appreciate their jobs. But no. They also act like you are bothering them. They are slow and do not put any care into it.
I would have to agree with Forbes on the low value of this team.
.
Falconsforlife
November 12th, 2009
12:05 pm
ASG is a joke, and if we lose the hockey team in this town they (and D-WAD) will be the exact reason why.
The Falcons on the other hand, will be fine. It’s hilarious that Forbes said Blank has zero chance of getting a new stadium. It sure doesn’t seem that way to people who have been paying attention to the situation. Blank seems pretty confident that he will get a new stadium and it will be done within the next 10 years.
Just make sure it isn’t on the southside and please make it outdoors or a retractable roof at least!
Reggie Reg
November 12th, 2009
12:12 pm
Gonzalez a thug???? LMBAO!!!! C’mon Conservative white dude…get a friggin life. Athletes should not be your kids hero in the first place. Maybe if you explained the ad and why they are posing naked, your kid, who I bet is smarter than you, would understand. October is now officially my favorite month!
DJ
November 12th, 2009
12:12 pm
In-city I am left to assume you don’t mind paying $20,000 extra for the right to buy your season tickets.
Matt "Choke" Ryan
November 12th, 2009
12:16 pm
HA HA
“YOU” fools thought the CHOKE could out draw Mike Vick.
Forbes says……………. NUMBER 25
HA HA HA
Matt "Choke" Ryan
November 12th, 2009
12:16 pm
THE COMMISSIONER HAS SPOKEN:
The League doesn’t want Ghetto THUGS in the NFL.
Smitty break out the check book – you owe the Commissioner 15 Grand baby
That will teach you a lesson, to stay in your place and keep that street THUG life in your neighborhood
Yet another victory for the Virginia Tech boys
- Bonus case…………….LOST
- League disciple case…………..LOST
Damn it must hurt to know the league respects D Hall more than Smitty
In-city Falcon Fan
November 12th, 2009
12:25 pm
DJ really? 20,000 extra? We are not talking about building another Dallas Cowboy’s stadium. Just a stadium to keep us competitive with the rest of the US. If teams like the Detroit Lions can build a new stadium, there is no reason the Falcons and the city can not muster up the cash… oh wait, the city can not because managing a budget has turned out to be way to difficult for our current admin… (ouch, had to squeeze that one in there). Seriously though, the Falcon fans will not be the only party to bare the burden of the new stadium cost. That is the beauty of a new stadium, it can attract new and different venues to share the cost. You keep a dilapidated stadium for years to come and all that will result is lost opportunity and money.
Vick the Convict
November 12th, 2009
12:31 pm
What is Vick doing these days? Oops….he is not even good enough to run the wildcat….make it the wild dog and he might just do a little better. No need to worry however…..at the end of the season this old thug will again be without a job…..just can’t make it at quarterback since he has poor decision making abilities.
Matt "Choke" Ryan
November 12th, 2009
12:33 pm
Every team in the NFC South is ranked higher than the Falcons………
This Franchise is worthless
- Worthless franchise
- CHOKE quarterback
- THUG Coach
- BUST GM
This Funny as hell
MannyT
November 12th, 2009
12:35 pm
Given the amount of attention that sports get in the US, there is nothing wrong with looking at the financial side of it. I do wonder how the financials impact ticket prices and concession prices for the sporting events that I attend locally and out out of town.
Do I think the Forbes numbers are accurate? Not sure. However, if there is a relative level of accuracy that does provide information. Some sports road trips are better values than others based on cost of tickets, travel, local entertainment, etc.
More important than the money are the management and the budget. The Redskins spend lots of money, but have real management issues. Thus there’s little bang for the buck. On the other hand there are teams that spend little and make it go a long way (e.g. the Florida Marlins about once every 5 years.)
All that said, link the same article on the business page and track the stats. That will tell where this column fits best for the AJC and its base. I’ll take a peek where ever you post it.
ATL Hawk
November 12th, 2009
12:39 pm
Conservative white male just mad cause October was in front of Tony G. He wanted to see the whole thing. I’m glad I was born in October.
DJ
November 12th, 2009
12:50 pm
In-city….Fine with me as long as they leave the per-seat licenses out of the equation.
And yes, the PSL for seats (similar to our seats) for the NY Giants new “much needed” stadium opening next year are $10,000 EACH plus the cost of the tickets.
No wonder the Giants are #4 on the list.
Oh…and last time I looked the Lions sucked.
theArsonist
November 12th, 2009
1:04 pm
@Bubba: the Cowboys haven’t won a playoff game since 1996. And unless you count superbowls from 13 years ago, it harldy makes them winners. The Yankees already have a fan base of 10 million plus so that goes a long way for value.
@Reality Strikes, Being that Gwinnett county doesn’t have a public transportation system to carry the masses to a Falcons game I highly doubt any of the four pro teams would move out there. Not to mention there is plenty of parking and police around the parking lots of Phillips, the Ted, and Dome. I cannot even remember the last time I heard about someone getting attacked after a pro or college event in Atlanta. Every city has homeless people and bums. Last time I was in NYC and LA there were plenty of homeless people around. The White Sox and Bulls play in rough neighborhoods and they do well. I also doubt that Chic-fil-a and the SEC want their college football games played in Gwinnett county. Inside 285 = nightlife, strip clubs, hotels. Gwinnett = white flight, mall of georgia, discovery mills and mall shootings.
All I'm Saying Is...
November 12th, 2009
1:08 pm
First, let’s not forget the Falcons deal with the Georgia Dome was a great deal back in the early 90s when first signed which they lobbied for especially when compared to what they had with Atlanta-Fulton County Stadium. Obviously, however, times change and they will soon need a new facility with more luxury suites, parking, and personal seat license revenue generating opportunities to stay competitive on the field. In any case, shed no tears for Arthur as the NFL is an exclusive club and if he wanted to sell, he’d get a ton of offers and would easily realize a more than 50% return (i.e. there is a fat cat itching to add a team to L.A. with money to burn to buy one.)
Next, the reason for the low valuation for the Thrashers is because the Coyotes went bankrupt and due to other Sun Belt hockey teams suffering in part due to the economy but moreso because of the consequences of the ill advised expansion. Fact is there are probably too many hockey teams and contraction would be an improvement if not relocation back to a couple of Canadian cities (i.e. Winnipeg or another team in the Toronto province).
Do I care about the valuation of Atlanta sports franchises? Not really, as long as that valuation is going up over time because that means the league is healthy and that current ownership is realizing a return (on paper) for their investment which should make them want to maximize that return with wins on the playing field.
At the end of the day, having one individual’s ego at stake by way of team ownership is the best way to get consistent maximum performance on the field (i.e. see Ted’s tenure owning the Braves) and that’s one reason why the Falcons are doing well.
LET’S GO BRAVES!
LET’S GO FALCONS!
LET’S GO HAWKS!
LET’S GO THRASHERS!
F-105 Thunderchief
November 12th, 2009
1:59 pm
Or L.A. Rams.
Peter
November 12th, 2009
2:14 pm
hey…..Matt “Choke” Ryan…….. I guess you never got an education ?
You act the fool child !
MV7
November 12th, 2009
3:03 pm
Hi, it’s Mike, y’know? Anyone seen my career?
Jon
November 12th, 2009
3:32 pm
As my friend Clusters would say, “to get they players better they should get Dairy Queen.”
Nancy
November 12th, 2009
3:37 pm
Gwinnett County?? Have you looked at the crime there?? No Marta either and traffic is horrible.
Nancy
November 12th, 2009
3:37 pm
Gwinnett County?? Have you looked at the crime there?? No Marta either and traffic is horrible.
Kevin
November 12th, 2009
4:40 pm
Jeff,
I think some of the comments here have hit on something worth asking the Spirit Group. As a season ticket holder it drives me crazy that an arena named after an electronics company is unable to provide its fans with modern screens for scores, replays and stats. The upper stat boards in the arena are a complete joke. Could you please ask them when they plan on updating them. I would like to know that my season ticket money is going towards some thing other than player salaries. Maybe an arena I can be proud of?
USMC-N-Afghanistan
November 12th, 2009
4:52 pm
Why are we even concerned about Forbes everybody? As I have mentioned before in another blog, half of the people in Atlanta or Georgia are from some place other than Atlanta or Georgia. Its hard to have dedicated fans when there are only ten people originally from the city and I am one of them. As far as our teams, well I always wondered why people that have nothing to do with nothing has everything to say. If you aren’t a fan of our city, state, colleges, teams, get the hell out, as a matter of fact, I will gladly trade places with you and you can come cheer for the Afghanistan Sand Storms over here. I know agree with many opinions on here about the ownership of the teams and the stadiums. “All I’m Saying Is…” said it best about the ownership, we need one person to run an organization. Ted Turner put his heart into the Braves and even the Hawks. Blank put his heart into the Falcons. One mindset or maybe a family mindset is always best when it comes to an organization. Everybody knows their place in it. And again I agree with the stadium talk. We dog the Ga Dome out now, but remember when it first opened up, it was absolutely ugly(colors) and beautiful(the dome itself). I still love the dome except without all the blocked off places, but thats another argument. If and when we get a new stadium, i disagree about the open air stadium and reason being, we ask for that but have we noticed how cold it is getting in Atlanta now-a-days. I would much rather have a retractable roof so that when it is a beautiful and cool fall, we can pull the top back. Especially for the new ACC-SEC kick off game. But of course these are just my opinions, Forbes hasn’t placed me on the payroll yet. And moving the stadium to Gwinnett or any other place would be a disjustice to the city because they aren’t the Gwinnett Hawks or Gwinnett Falcons. The team name is Atlanta and most teams on the exception of Jet/Giants play where their team name says its from. Bombs, crimes, and anything negative can happen anywhere. See yall Dec 27(Falcons game) & Dec 29(Hawks game) And thanks for the constant support!
caren
November 12th, 2009
4:58 pm
OUTSOURCE OUTSOURCE. They had to pay for legal fees and to upgrade the suites some how. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR A.S. No wonder I am not renewing my season tickets next year!
ricardo
November 12th, 2009
5:14 pm
Gearon is a moron….he should of kept the cell towers….something that knows about. Just because you are a sports fan doesn’t make you a genious at being an owner. He and the other owners are pathetic.
Fair and Balanced
November 12th, 2009
6:48 pm
So on one blog the poor buzzard fans are trying to raise money for Coach Smith, when the franchise itself could use some fundraising. LMAO
Lane Kiffin
November 12th, 2009
7:06 pm
50k-60k seat stadium…uh, sure, if you’re Georgia State. They need at least an 80k seat stadium, sorry. Can’t downgrade or make a lateral shift in terms of seating. More butts in the seats=more money for the team.
JASon
November 12th, 2009
7:34 pm
We have three franchises that are ALL WINNING right now I don’t care whether they are a good value or not
Jeva Omed
November 12th, 2009
7:35 pm
Jeff, Let’s consider some very important points, Atlanta is over 70% Black, Forbes readership is majority affluent whites. So, do you think any team in Atlanta will be rated fair. The prudent, affluent establishment will only ponder, that blacks are doing better financially and stop buying Forbes. Second, Atlanta sports teams have not won a championship in years, so the television revenue has not been fairly spread through this market. Third and most importantly, Atlanta’s team owners do not do a good job of promoting their players and their contributions to the community. Most of the players don’t live in Atlanta, therefore a lot of the millions they spend go outside the city, thus diminishing tax revenue, which is one of the factors magazines like Forbes used to value a professional sports team, oh someone please share this with Mr. Gearon, since he seems not to know. Thanks….
Manny
November 12th, 2009
7:44 pm
I can speak with some authority on the Falcons: They lost revenue potential after Vick. When Vick went to jail, people don’t buy the Falcons gear as much. They don’t have the revenue from the ads. They don’t sell tickets like they used to. They didn’t have that “Face of the Franchise” that was instant excitement. That equates to revenue generation.
With Vick, everyone talked Falcons. They were excited to see the product on the field in every stadium. That brought revenue to the Falcons and the Falcons were valued much higher then than now.
But here’s the thing: The Falcons can win the Super Bowl and still not get that back. Why? Because our true superstar is a bruising back that isn’t in commercials. And our “Face of the Franchise” is a slightly above average, 2nd-year QB. He’s better for the team, but he’s not flashy. He’s no extraordinary talent. He can’t beat a football team all by himself.
Kinda tragic, don’t you think?
SwimTrunkDawg
November 12th, 2009
8:11 pm
This article makes my pecker itch.
SwimTrunkDawg
November 12th, 2009
8:14 pm
It reminds of a poem I once read.
Roses are red.
Violets are blue.
My pecker itches.
If I’m not mistaken, I think it was one of Hemingway’s.
Manny
November 12th, 2009
8:42 pm
don’t tell us, take a bath
Matt "Choke" Ryan
November 12th, 2009
8:59 pm
Peter
November 12th, 2009
2:14 pm
hey…..Matt “Choke” Ryan…….. I guess you never got an education ?
You act the fool child !
“I think you mean never RECEIVED an education”
Truth-Serum
November 12th, 2009
9:49 pm
If the falcons had kept michael vick they would be of more value. What losers, they are.
PMC
November 12th, 2009
9:50 pm
Props to Michael Gearon. They have done an excellent job through some turmoil getting both thier franchises to play competitively. He also articulated his points well and I thank him for responding.
Truth-Serum
November 12th, 2009
9:51 pm
Manny People did not buy the gear because of the gag orders and the demands from Peta. Out side of redneck circles Michael is still a love and a cult. Give him his job back next year and you will sell out again. Believe that!!
Thrashers Kane-ing of Rangers Dispenses any worries of Kovy’s return | Thrashers: Iceman
November 12th, 2009
10:32 pm
[...] Jeff Schultz told us, Forbes Magazine ranks the Thrashers almost dead-last in value and, as Phil Foley writes, the [...]
Brett
November 12th, 2009
11:31 pm
They definitely need to spruce up Philips Arena. small things like replacing the light bulbs in the scoreboards up high in the main arena. hard to read scores from other games and stats from our game. The concourse area needs refreshing as well. Philips Experience looks like an out of business shut down strip mall- TVs out, no games, no wheel to spin and win (my sons favorite thing). Small things make the experience. Take a que from Blank and the constant upgrading of the Dome.
Snowman
November 13th, 2009
7:58 am
Jeff, since you have not written anything about the Hawks positively since the begining of their good start and since I posted this late on your Woodson/Johnson on hot seat article, I wanted to make sure you saw my thoughts of you and the article!!!…Will you write a positive article about Joe or Woody this season, just curious?…
Snowman
October 29th, 2009
4:07 pm
Well, well, well hello to “Hawk Nation” and I hope everyone had a good off season (even you Jeff although I was very surprised to see you were still with the paper…interesting). I wonder if there was another writer who wrote for the AJC who constantly criticized your writing and asked repeatedly to have you replaced and implied you have not done a good job even though things improved every year while you were there even to the point that you were among the the top 25% of the writers in the country. When not too long ago you were ranked at the absolute bottom, how you would like it?
I wonder if that writer would be “fair and balanced” (no pun intended) if every single frickin time they wrote about you, no matter what, the writer was saying how bad a job you are doing…hhhmmmm!!! Again, I wonder if you would think that writer had an agenda or it was personal. You have been an absolute jerk Jeff (seriously) when it comes to your balanced reporting on Woody. Not the Hawks or the current GM, just Wood…hhmmmm!!! With all of the current talent out there with Newspapers closing, cutting back and so forth, I am certain the AJC could find a much better writer than you and even you would have to agree to that, right? Take Tony K and Mike Wilbon to name a couple from our paper here locally and I know Tony has resigned from the Post. By the way, there talent would CRUSH yours. Why don’t I ever see you on any of the national shows for geust spots and expertise occasionally (like they do on the Sports Reporters or Around the Horn or the Colin Cowher show?), Just wondering?
Jeff, you should be removed, Fired!!! If I or you had a child in a physics or calculus class, who got off to a very, very slow start, and over the school year, studied hard, asked for help, kept working, met with the teacher, got some tutoring, stayed positive, formed a study group and over the year their grades got better and better and by the end of the school year was one of the top 8 students in a 32 student class, I and you would praise and compliment and really appreciate what they has accomplished!!! This is exactly what coach Woodson has done over a 6 year period with the Hawks. That is a hard job and he has done very well, given the degree of difficulty!!! Again, I live in a town, that has a football team, the Skins, whose coach and team has been terrible and we are not as hard on him as you are on Woodson. He deserves it, Woody does not.
Finally, that is why I agree with Russ, you are unfair, and if anyone should be replaced it’s you!!! In fact, I wish AJC ran a Poll; here are a couple of questions: should Jeff Schultz be fired? If AJC could get a top writer or whatever your position is, should he be replaced? Who thinks Jeff is fair and balanced in his coverage of coach Woodson. I am done with asking you to be fair, I have moved to wanting you fired!!! I wonder if the Mayor, Shirley Franklin, Mr. Brave, Hank Aaron, Mr. Hawk, Dominique, and the honorable Andrew Young feel the same as allot of us that you should be fired or at a minimum extremely unfair in your writing about coach. I am the “official band leader” for you being removed completely or to another part of the paper at a minimum. Again, I would feel a little different if you criticized other parts of the organization equally, then I could conclude it was not personal.
Kudos to Russ, Derek, Mitch!!! Remember the Big 3 (Boston, Cleveland and Orlando) are really, really good. The Hawks could win 50 plus games this season and be better than last year and still lose in the 2nd round and the season still be a whopping success and coach should get a ticker tape parade, c’mon who are we kidding, it was not long ago we were the Clippers and now we are like a Utah or better!!!
Brendan
November 13th, 2009
1:33 pm
Hi Jeff. Sorry I’m late to the party. For what it’s worth, I think Michael Gearon may be the best out of this ownership bunch. I’d have to say Bruce Levenson is the worst of the group. And I attribute the lower value of the Thrashers to him. But I’ll get back to that in a second.
I always thought, and read in the AJC, back in 1999, that the Thrashers were purchased by Ted Turner for $99 million. In 2004, I read that the Thrashers were valued at $131 million. And now, in 2009, they are only worth $143 million. Well, this is still an improvement, but not nearly what they’d hoped for, to be reported in Forbes Magazine, anyway. Supposing for the very moment that Michael Gearon is right. Forbes numbers are erroneous and presented merely as entertainment. I won’t disagree, per se. But, certainly, this would be an opportunity for Michael Gearon to set the record straight, by providing the actual value/financial figures. I understand why he won’t do it. The settlement isn’t final, etc.
But isn’t it HIGH TIME, for the LOVE OF PETE, for Mr. Belkin to finally be bought out and a real cash investor to be found? I mean, the millenium got here FASTER. Allrightee then.
Well … back to Bruce Levenson. Here’s a guy who had experience with the Washington Capitals organization. In short, here’s a guy who should KNOW BETTER about what the causal relationship is to wins and losses vis-a-vis attendance. And yet, what did his ‘experience’ and ‘leadership’ ultimately do for him? Jeff Schultz, you even provided them with FREE ADVICE on what to do to remedy the situation in 2007. They ignored you. Your wisdom led you to recommend: (1) Beg Scotty Bowman, on hands and knees, to take over, promising him anything and everything. (Good call! Chicago got him. D’oh!!) (2) Scour the NHL for proven GM’s, and find out what Brian Burke’s status really is with Anaheim. If he becomes available, interview him. (Burke went to the Leafs, in a probably arranged situation,) (3) Scour the NHL’s Assistant GMs and conduct an exhaustive search for the best candidate. And lastly, what you imparted to them was, (4) What you DON’T DO … is NOTHING.
Of course, NOTHING is the choice they opted for. See, this is where Bruce Levenson is supposed to stand up and say, “My fellow Spirit owners. No matter how much we LOVE, ADMIRE, CHERISH, and WORSHIP Don Waddell as our beloved friend, trusted ally, and esteemed hockey mind, we simply must ‘man up’ and do that which we find so unpalatable … and remove him from power. We’ve all seen the results.” Instead, they cited “John Wooden’s career” … saying that … in today’s sport world, Wooden would have been fired after two seasons and never would have gone on to reach greatness. PFFT! Are they really equating Don Waddell to Coach John Wooden? Did they really intend to do that? Because it’s been 9 completed seasons, and “7 of 9″ isn’t just a Star Trek Voyager reference, it’s the actual number of times the Thrashers have finished in the bottom third of the Eastern Conference.
What’s left to discuss? This is where Bruce Levenson cannot remain silent. He cannot be a Waddell advocate. He must say, “In my experience, we’re going to lose fanbase by retaining a losing GM.” The results since 2007 are consecutive 76-point seasons, finishing 28th and 27th overall, respectively, and picking 3rd and 4th within the lottery draft for those seasons. If they trusted Waddell’s judgement so much, and needed playoff revenue so very badly, why has there been no accountability for results?
Ilya Kovalchuk’s next deal will cost the team $10 million or more. And yet, they were were willing to spend $10 million in legal fees, to fight this thing? Something doesn’t add up. From a fan’s perspective, why not just take this $10 million and spend to the cap limit? From the business perspective, I suppose the answer is, “Because we face the prospect of Mr. Belkin buying us out AT COST?” At least, that was the fight in the beginning. I suppose, later on, it became establishing “at what price” do we buy HIM out.
All I can say is … hockey fans and basketball fans deserved better. The Hawks did make the playoffs, back-to-back. They even won a round of playoffs! And they pushed the World Champion Celtics to the brink of elimination in 2008. There’s no doubt … that was exciting. But the Thrashers have not followed Jeff Schultz’ advice … and it has cost them. Though, Gearon says they DON’T HAVE ANY DEBT. I’ve been estimating for year that they “break even” or operate at a marginal loss, given their league minimum-type payrolls and with revenue-sharing dollars. For me, the Atlanta Spirit member I want ousted most isn’t Belkin. It’s Bruce Levenson.
JR
November 13th, 2009
1:43 pm
Jeff
Did you make the trip to NYC to see both teams win…It seems like the local NY media was more impressed with the clubs than our local media. Too bad
Both franchises are moving ‘more than’ in the right direction in spite of a number of issues. ASG has spent money. In fact, coming out of the NHL work stoppage they had one of the highest payrolls and were very competitive.
Don has had his ups and downs and has manged through it and he will succeed.
Atlanta as a sports town has alot of growing up to do. Its good for the local community and the economy when the local media, businesses and individuals support its team. I recognize that jounalists need to find a story but it seems to me that the AJC has burnt their bridge and trust with the ASG. I believe the Falcons and Braves (I love both teams)have had issues on and of the field too but yet the AJC continues to pile on the ASG and have never really points out some of the good things they have done. As for Philips, overall is one of the finest places to watch a game. After 10 years of constant use they are beginning the face lift process. As yo know, corporate sponsorship is important so it looks like they’re updating the suites and i’m sure they will get to the rest of the arena over time.
I find it interesting when people say that MG and RS are just BB people and do not care about hockey. I’m a season ticket holder and have seen both local owners at many games getting pretty excited.
The AJC needs to rebuild their contentious relationship with the group and move forward. One of the ways they could do that is send their beat writers to games, especially in NYC (an AP story?) and write a human interest story on the people running the organization to give people more insight rather than just the negatives
Hockey will survive in ATL and WHEN the Thrashers crank it up and win playoff games this city will eventually rally (see Dallas, Tampa, Caps, Canes etc.)
Its hard to go all the way in any sport and hockey is no different. Off of the top of my head these cities below have had struggles with winning over the years. Generally speaking we all know it takes time to build a tradition. Be patient and support the clubs. Plenty of great seats at good prices. Both products are good and its an embarassment when its empty with competitive teams.
here is a quick summary,
St Louis est. 1967 (no cup)
Washington est early 70s(no cup)
LA est early 70s(no cup)
no cup in over 30 years for,,,,
Chicago
Boston
Toronto
Philly
NYI
I’m sure there are others.
Not sure if any of this matters to you but it need to be said.
Take care
JR
November 13th, 2009
2:07 pm
Correction
was typing a little to quickly….I meant to say over 25 years for the struggling nyi
Matt "Choke" Ryan
November 13th, 2009
3:05 pm
So you guys are happy with the THUG coach Smith. Let’s take a look at his so called brilliance as a great coach, as “YOU” people have crowned him:
COACH SMITH vs COACH HARBAUGH
- Both Coaches were rookies in 2008
- Coach Smith was 1 and done in the playoffs
- Coach Harbaugh reached the championship game
- Coach Smith won coach of the year
- Coach Harbaugh reached the championship game
- Coach Smith drafted the CHOKE
- Coach Harbaugh drafted Joe Cool
- The CHOKE was 1 and done in the playoffs
- Joe Cool became the 1st rookie ever to win 2 playoff games
- The CHOKE won rookie of the year
- Joe Cool became the 1st rookie ever to win 2 playoff games
- Coach Smith built a bottom 5 defense
- Coach Harbaugh built a top 5 defense
- Coach Smith won coach of the year
- Coach Harbaugh built a top 5 defense
- Coach Smith drafted the CHOKE
- Coach Harbaugh drafted Joe Cool
- The CHOKE is ranked NUMBER 20 in the NFL
- Joe Cool is ranked NUMBER 11 in the NFL
- The CHOKE is ranked 5th in the NFL in Interceptions
- Joe Cool is ranked 14th in the NFL in Interceptions
- The CHOKE has a QB RATING of 82.2
- Joe Cool has a QB RATING of 90.2
LET’S RECAP…………………
- Coach Harbaugh made the championship game as a rookie
- Coach Smith was 1 and done as a rookie
- The CHOKE was 1 and done as a rookie
- Joe Cool made it to the championship game as a rookie
- The CHOKE is having a sophomore slump
- Joe Cool is improving from rookie season
So the bottom line – those that are worshipping Smith are admitting to being BRAIN DEAD and as big a LOSER as he and his BUST QB
Coach Harbaugh
November 13th, 2009
3:34 pm
Choke – Delusional and likely drunk rantings, but kind of amusing in an annoying sort of way.
KovyRules
November 14th, 2009
1:01 pm
I knew the DW bashers would show up – they always do – but Brendan you hit an all-time new low in suggesting Brian Burke should have been considered for the job here. In this short time, he is more hated in TO than DW ever will be here. He was the mastermind of the Kubina for Exelby deal. His big signing on free agency day was Colton Orr. You can roast DW, but be fair and look at every GM’s record with as much scrutiny.
With Dudley and John Anderson picking talent, and DW signing them (Afinogenov for 800k? Peverly for 1.1M for 2 years? Are you kidding? DW can bargain like NOBODY! I want him in charge of my check book!), the Thrashers will build a long-term contender.
Back 2 Reality
November 14th, 2009
7:55 pm
Manny, Truth Serum, you guys keep preaching the truth. Alot people in this city are trying to fool themselves into thinking that the loss of Vick has had no affect at all. I canceled my season tickets I’ve had since 1996 & from what I’m hearing, each game the falcons keep trying to peddle mini season ticket packs. So the proof is in the pudding, Blank messed up by listening to ESPN & that brainchild gm of his.
scottbravesfan
November 15th, 2009
1:29 am
The Falcons are ranked so low the same reason the Vikings are ranked so low. They don’t own their stadium. The Vikings have a huge fan base and they aren’t ranked very high. The Falcons do not own the Dome the state does. The Braves also used to be ranked higher but they have been going down since the team has failed to make the playoffs the last few seasons but they will always be ranked in the higher part because of their brand value.
Thrashers have never won a playoff game in 10 years and play in one of the worst sports towns in America that is why they are ranked so low. The Hawks will probably be ranked in the middle of the NBA pack when the NBA rankings are released. The reason that Atlanta teams are ranked so low is because of lack of fan support. The Braves used to be ranked in the top 5 and Forbes would always say how if Atlanta actually supported the team they would be ranked a lot higher even in the top three. Now that the two New York teams have new stadiums and the Boston Red Sox charge an arm and a leg for a ticket they will have the top three rankings for awhile.
Also there is no way that Gwinnett would ever get one of the four Atlanta teams. You guys have ZERO mass transient options out there. I’m not sitting on I85 for an hour to get to a game. I can ride the MARTA and it drops me off right at the Georgia Dome. No way would I ever combat 70,000 people to get to a stadium. Getting to Turner Field is bad enough on the south side of town. Seriously how the hell does Turner Field not have a MARTA train station? Also if you want to see a stadium in a bad neighborhood go to Chicago. The United Center is right smack in the middle of the ghetto and US Cellular field is not much better on the south side. It’s a scary thing riding the L train to and from the United Center.
scottbravesfan
November 15th, 2009
1:33 am
Michael Vick sucks. His last season in Atlanta he was terrible. And if Vick was so good how come he is the 3rd string quarterback in Philly? The guy is washed up and was never that good to begin with. His best bet would be to try and switch to wide out and try returning punts and kicks but everyone knows how bad he fumbled the ball before when he would try and run as the QB.
Seriously how come so many black people love this guy? There are way better options of players to follow than Vick. If all you want is a black QB to follow then just follow McNabb. The QB in Tampa looked pretty good last week so let him be your quarterback hero. At least those two guys don’t get arrested on felony charges for dog fighting when they have a 100 million dollar contract.
Brendan
November 15th, 2009
2:08 am
KovyRules, just out of curiosity, what was PREVIOUS LOW that I now eclipsed?
Joebrave
November 15th, 2009
11:05 am
Matt Choke Ryan, son do the world a favor, and shut the hell up, I ‘d like to take that LOSER Vick, and shove his head up your arse!
Joebrave
November 15th, 2009
11:07 am
BTW, what has that so-called hero of yours done lately cmon tel me waht that ignorant Va-Techie has for a passer rating?passing yards?,T.D’s?
bring something other than your usual b>S> ignorant Black Trash!
Jimmy
November 16th, 2009
5:28 am
To Matt “Choke” Ryan, Coach Harbaugh did not build a Top 5 defense by any means. That defense was there before he was. Rex Ryan built the defense before he left to be the head coach for NYJ. Maybe you should think about your comments before you get on a soap box.
redbird
November 16th, 2009
9:31 pm
i hear ya! take a look
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8GuH9oDHrU