Braves’ outfield needs overhauling (again)
Matt Diaz (right) is a keeper for the Braves, but Jordan Schafer remains a mystery after this season's flop.
Frank Wren didn’t divulge much when I spoke to him for an early column Wednesday about the Braves’ plans for their pitching rotation this off-season. But given the general manager won’t have to add any starters this year, he stated the obvious:
“We can focus on other needs, which I think are more attainable [than starting pitchers]. It will probably be a little less stressful this winter.”
The kid, Jason Heyward, has been a man in the minors. But is he ready for the jump?
Less stressful, yes. But after thinking about this on the way home last night, something occurred to me: The Braves’ outfield is really a mess. I’m pretty sure they lead baseball in fourth outfielders. Absolute starters? Zero. Check it out. I’ll list them by potential, from top to bottom:
♦ Jordan Schafer: He has been projected as a star. But he was a mess last season, hitting .204 with two home runs in 50 games before the Braves pointed him to I-85, in the direction of Gwinnett. If Schafer is the real deal, he’s the best this team has. And he needs to be the real deal from day one of spring training next season or they’re really in trouble.
♦ Nate McLouth: It looked like one of Wren’s moves when he traded pitcher Charlie Morton to Pittsburgh for McLouth, an All-Star last season. He had speed, decent power and could play center field, thereby replacing Schafer. But after hitting .276 last season, McLouth’s at only .258 this year. He’s hitting only .238 since the All-Star break, which means he has been as mediocre in Atlanta (.259) as he was the first part of the season in Pittsburgh (.256), which was believed to be an aberration. Now we can’t be certain what’s reality and what isn’t.
♦ Matt Diaz: Wednesday’s base-running gaffe notwithstanding, Diaz is a solid player and a great guy in the room, and has been for a while now. He’s hitting .313, which leads the team, and has a .390 on-base percentage (which is second) with 13 homers, 58 RBI and 12 stolen bases. But he is probably best as a platoon outfielder. If Wren strikes out this winter in the trade or free agent market, Diaz could start every day in one of the corner positions. But that shouldn’t be the first option.
♦ Garret Anderson: The Braves can’t complain. He was a late signing after the Ken Griffey Jr. deal fell through. He was what they thought he was. He can still hit a little (.273, 13, 61). But you can make a sandwich in the time it takes him to chase down a fly ball or run to first. This team badly needs either speed or power, or both. Anderson shouldn’t be back.
♦ Ryan Church: Many fans embraced him simply because his name wasn’t Jeff Francoeur, who went the other way in a trade with the New York Mets. But he is no better than a fourth outfielder. He’s hitting .272, and actually lower with the Braves (.258) than with the Mets (.280). Also, check out the month by month splits: March/April: .313; May .224; June .307; July .235; August .306; September .192.
♦ Other options: Gregor Blanco, Greg Norton, Reid Gorecki, Brandon Jones, Brian Barton.
♦ Top prospect: Jason Heyward: I know there’s going to be a rush to get the kid up here. But nobody should assume he’s ready (see: Schafer). He spent most of the year in Single- or Double-A and played only three games with Gwinnett (4 for 13).
So there’s the rundown. Did I miss anybody, and what are your thoughts on the current cast?
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218 comments Add your comment
Sid Bream
October 1st, 2009
10:43 am
BRAVES LOSE!!!
BRAVES LOSE!!!
Chris
October 1st, 2009
10:46 am
Jeff: I love the Braves but WHERE are your weekend predictions?
Sam in High School
October 1st, 2009
10:53 am
that one play last night summed up the entire season for me. Stupid mistakes that cost the team games. last nights game could have easily been won but as the story goes, its still the same old braves
Brian
October 1st, 2009
10:53 am
I think the Braves will try to acquire a significant outfield bat. A bona fide cleanup hitter? Probably not…just not one out there. The best outfielder they would be able to obtain would probably cost them Javier Vazquez. If they don’t want to part with him, then you start moving down the food chain of available options. If Wren can get his hands on a solid outfield bat without giving up Vazquez, and re-sign LaRoche, he will have had an outstanding winter.
I now think there’s a decent chance Heyward could start the year in Atlanta. But I’m amazed at the people who are making their theoretical 2010 lineups and have him hitting somewhere 2-5. I think their expectations are a little high. It is extremely, extremely rare for a rookie to come up at age 20 and have that sort of impact. Take Justin Upton, the remarkably talented Arizona outfielder. He hit .221 his first year, .250 at age 20, and really made the jump this year. That’s more of a typical career path, even for “sure things” like Upton and Heyward.
Tale of Woe
October 1st, 2009
10:53 am
Give Schafer some slack – he hurt his wrist the 3rd or 4th game of the year. I agree that we need him ready from day 1…Outfield projection next year
LF – Schafer / Diaz
C – McClouth
RF – Heyward
If Heyward isn’t ready then I can see Blanco or Jones starting the year with the Braves (Diaz getting most of the playing time in RF) until Heyward is ready by May/June.
PMC
October 1st, 2009
10:54 am
If Heyward has an unbelievable spring training…. the earliest I can see them bringing him up is probably… June (see Tommy Hanson)
world b
October 1st, 2009
10:56 am
Yep. Diaz and McGlouth would be plenty serviceable if a legit all-star was added to the mix. Schafer looked SO lost last season that I have a hard time seeing him as an answer next year. Figuring with at least one of the Gonzo/Soriano duo gone and probably one of the starters gone, there should be some money to get a good one and to keep Rochey for another year
CLTDawg
October 1st, 2009
10:58 am
Jeff, how can you actually list Greg Norton as an option? Did you type that with a straight face?
The guy is terrible, he may be a good clubhouse guy, I don’t know, but would love to find out to determine why he has stuck around so long.
Brian
October 1st, 2009
11:02 am
If the Braves aren’t able to acquire an outfield bat, I think it would be McLouth in left, Schafer in center, and Heyward in right, with Diaz getting plenty of ABs spelling all three at times, especially against lefties. That’s going to be nowhere near the best outfield in the league, with the typically strong offensive infield the Braves employ and great starting pitching, the Braves would still be very legit contenders.
Brian
October 1st, 2009
11:03 am
The above should say “That’s going to be nowhere near the best outfield in the league, BUT with the typically strong offensive infield…”
Mitchell
October 1st, 2009
11:06 am
“BOO!!!” says I about the Braves.
It’s only going to get worse with Bobby Cox at the helm. Sure, the future is bright but we’re wasting valuable time here with a washed up manager and an over the hil 3rd baseman.
Chipper Jones is becoming Dale Murphey circa 1990.
McCann Fan
October 1st, 2009
11:07 am
Jeff, would you mind giving us a short list of who will be available this winter? 2009 salaries would be nice too.
Then we can debate who we think Wren should go after and who he actually will go after.
Mitchell
October 1st, 2009
11:08 am
“… over the hil”?
Boo me. I’m a regular Matt Diaz when it comes to typos. I have no idea what that means.
Michael
October 1st, 2009
11:09 am
Jordana Schaefer should be very thankful he is still in a position to tbe a starter at the major leage level given his two debacles (the suspension and his 1st your of dute). My guess is we will sign an outfielder and Jordan and Matt will share time.
But what about 1st base? I know we have FF coming but we need a 2 year stop-gap. To me that is the more pressing concern.
jimmy
October 1st, 2009
11:11 am
get a outfielder or two,tweak the bullpen.happy day’s could be here again
Brian
October 1st, 2009
11:12 am
If you, like me and DOB, think the Braves will pursue a right-handed hitting outfielder, here are the available free agents (not including Jason Bay and Matt Holliday, who will cash in big time with someone): Rocco Baldelli, Marlon Byrd, Mike Cameron, Vladimir Guerrero (he’s more of a DH now), Gary Sheffield.
For a lot of reasons, Mike Cameron is the only free agent option that makes sense for the Braves. If they want someone better, it’s probably gonna have to happen in a trade.
Brian
October 1st, 2009
11:19 am
Mike Cameron positives: Can be obtained with a pretty cheap 2-year deal, hits for some power (at least 21 HR four straight years), takes walks, very good defensively and still above average offensively, Georgia native
Mike Cameron negatives: Has hit between .242 and .249 each of last three years, always has been a high strikeout guy, will be 37 years old, type B free agent
Brian
October 1st, 2009
11:22 am
Sorry, the fact that Cameron will be a type B free agent isn’t a negative. That has no effect on the Braves. I guess you can say it’s a positive that he’s not a type A free agent.
Don
October 1st, 2009
11:23 am
What needs “overhauling” is a change in the Manager position. As long as Bobby Cox is the manager, nothing else is probably going to matter. It is still unbelievable that with his obvious incompetence in so many different was in actions and failures to act and his continuios blunders – that Bobby Cox was rehired. The only slim chance we have is if our pitching is so far far superior to all the other teams that it overcomes having Cox as a manager and enabled us to win over the long 162 game regular season schedule.
Mitchell
October 1st, 2009
11:24 am
Brandon Jones and Brian Barton should have been on this team from mid-July on.
Unfortunately the only game Barton played in this year was one I went to against the Cubs. He was thrown out stealing second late in the game but based on the reaction of fans closer to the play he was probably safe. I was sitting in the 755 Club seats.
It wasn’t until I saw Carroll Rogers’ profile of him in the paper a couple days later that I realized he was African American.
Yeah, 755 Club seats… far away.
This team has had no speed and yet skilled players like Brooks Conrad, Jones, Barton and Clint Sammons have had to watch the likes of Greg Norton and Reid Gorecki take up space on the Braves bench.
Bobby Cox has zero ability to judge talent at this point.
If it comes down to who should be McCann’s backup next year I think it would be a mistake not to seriously consider Clint Sammons.
gayle
October 1st, 2009
11:26 am
I’m with you Mitchell. The Braves have been put together with band aids for so many years now – hoping for that one last gasp of glory with the team of the 90’s.
All those young players sent for the Drews and Tex’s could have been the foundation of a good young club.
Now, the bell has finally tolled for this franchise. Diaz’s gaffe last night being the exclamation point.
The Braves need to rebuild. I know that such a word is verboten for a team whose importance to ownership is merely as a tax writeoff, but if they want to compete, that is what is needed.
This “a little fix here, a little patch there” is nonsense.
Braves fans, wait for 2011 when the relic will finally be cast aside and there will be new ownership more interested in winning than saving a few million in taxes.
steveh
October 1st, 2009
11:29 am
I think I was the only person on these forums about the Nate McLouth deal. I like Nate, but he is not an all-star. The only reason he made the all-star team is because every team has to have at least one representative and he happened to play for the worst team in baseball. He was the only possible choice to represent the Pirates that year.
I agree that the Braves could use some more power, but I think our biggest need is a true leadoff hitter.
Though this is off the topic of our outfield, I think it is time to put Prado at 3B and Infante at 2B. Sorry Chipper.
steveh
October 1st, 2009
11:31 am
Oops … I should have said – I think I was the only person on these forums THAT DID NOT LIKE the Nate McLouth deal.
puff
October 1st, 2009
11:31 am
A dependable big bat is the top priority, not only because we don’t have one in the current outfield but because of Chipper’s fast decline. Plus LaRoche will start slow like he always does. The Braves really need to add offense.
Dave
October 1st, 2009
11:32 am
I am convinced that part of the reason Jeff Franceour flamed out these past two seasons was that the Braves brought him up too soon. While I grant that there were other variables involved, he should have spent AT LEAST three months at AAA ball to better learn the strike zone and to develop plate discipline. With proper plate discipline, he could have been a solid .290 hitter with 20-30 home runs and 100+ RBIs per year and we would not be be talking about the need for a power-hitting corner outfielder. While there is NO DOUBT that the Braves need to get a power bat in one of the outfiled positions, let’s hope the Braves do NOT make the same mistake with Jason Heyward.
Jordan Schafer is a MUCH better centerfielder than McClouth, but there is question as to whether he can hit well enough. He will get the chance to show what he can do this spring, as will the other outfield prospects.
Diaz hits left-handed pitching VERY well, but unless he improves his hitting against right-handers, he will remain a fourth outfielder with the Braves.
Garrett Anderson and Greg Norton are history; enough said! The Braves have plenty of outfield prospects who can perform at least as well as Anderson, and Norton just did NOT perform as the pitch-hitting specialist he was signed to be.
First base is easy: re-sign Adam LaRoche to a 2-3 year deal and bring Freddie Freeman along slowly. Laroche WANTS to stay here (he has made that clear) and can be had for a $7M per year deal. If Freeman comes up and begins to show he is ready to be the first baseman of the future, the Braves can then trade LaRoche.
Second base is Prado’s psoition to lose, with Infante and possibly Kelly Johnson serving as back-up. Prado can also back up Chipper at third.
Yunel Escobar is the Braves’ best player right now and should be at shortstop for the next few years.
Chipper stays at third for as long as he wants; he has EARNED the right to decide if and when he retires.
Pitching was covered very well by Dave O’Brien, but I have one thought to add: contact John Smoltz and see if he might want to come back as a reliever. He can contribute as a one-inning middle reliever and maybe even as a closer with his slider and splitter, and he would provide stability and leadership to a good, but young, pitching staff.
Just my humble opinion…
Brian
October 1st, 2009
11:33 am
Mitchell, I don’t understand what you’re seeing in Clint Sammons. His batting average has gone down every single season in his minor league career, down to from .237 to .214 this year. He is a career .225 hitter in AAA and a career .177 hitter in the majors.
Meanwhile, we have David Ross signed for next year who threw out 46% of basestealers this year. And has the fourth-highest OPS in all of baseball among catchers who had at least 100 PAs this year. That’s right: only Joe Mauer, Jorge Posada and Jesus Flores have a higher OPS than David Ross.
You’re gonna have to be extremely creative to tell me why you think Sammons should be the backup next year.
Alan
October 1st, 2009
11:36 am
Whatever direction the Braves take other than starting pitching they need to put together a cohesive unit that plays well together, this is something they don’t have at the present time and along with Bobby’s mismanagement of the bullpen-well what else needs to be said.
Pittsburgh Al
October 1st, 2009
11:41 am
The Braves definitely need a power bat in one of the outfield positions. If Heyward can provide that, he’s the man. However that is probably nothing more than wishful thinking for a 20 year old. Diaz, McLouth, Church & Schafer can fill the other 2. The real reason the Braves did not quite make it this year as it turns out is having a .100 hitter in the 3 slot for 2 months. I’m a Chipper fan and I have no idea what happened to him. I don’t think the Braves should or will give up on him, but there will be a lot of questions going into next season. Hopefully he will rebound and be the hitter he has been for 16 years. Nobody expected the late season run and looking back there is little question than getting virtually no production from your 3 hitter is the main reason they fell short. There will always be blown saves and bad decisions made by every team with the possible exception of the Yankees when it comes to blown saves. So you win as many of those games as you lose. But no run production in the middle of the lineup is a killer.
Jim
October 1st, 2009
11:46 am
Matt Young had 42 steals at AA this year. Maybe he will deserve a shot at some point.
Hillbilly Deluxe
October 1st, 2009
11:47 am
I still like Nate McLouth. He was nursing a hamstring the better part of the second half.
As for speed, if the Braves had it, Bobby Cox wouldn’t use it.
Pendleton
October 1st, 2009
11:47 am
Don’t matter how good the hitter is, after I work with him a while he’ll turn to crap
Jim
October 1st, 2009
11:49 am
Enter your comments here
Nilo Silvan
October 1st, 2009
11:49 am
Here are the OF Free Agents: (Scott Boras clients in bold)
Garret Anderson (38)
Marlon Anderson (36)
Jason Bay (31)
Emil Brown (35)
Marlon Byrd (32)
Carl Crawford (28) – $10MM club option with a $1.25MM buyout
Johnny Damon (36)
David Dellucci (36)
Cliff Floyd (37)
Matt Holliday (30)
Reed Johnson (33)
Jacque Jones (35)
Gabe Kapler (34)
Greg Norton (37)
Wily Mo Pena (28)
Manny Ramirez (38) – $20MM player option
Dave Roberts (38)
Gary Sheffield (41)
Fernando Tatis (35)
Randy Winn (36)
Rick Ankiel (30)
Rocco Baldelli (28)
Marlon Byrd (32)
Mike Cameron (37)
Endy Chavez (32)
Coco Crisp (30) – $8MM club option with a $500K buyout
Darin Erstad (36)
Ryan Freel (34)
Jerry Hairston Jr. (34)
Reed Johnson (33)
Andruw Jones (33)
Gabe Kapler (34)
Mark Kotsay (34)
Corey Patterson (30)
Scott Podsednik (34)
Bobby Abreu (36)
Jermaine Dye (36) – $12MM mutual option with a $1MM buyout
Brian Giles (39)
Vladimir Guerrero (34)
Eric Hinske (32)
Geoff Jenkins (35) – $7.5MM mutual option with a $1.25MM buyout
Gabe Kapler (34)
Austin Kearns (30) – $10MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Jason Michaels (34)
Xavier Nady (31)
Randy Winn (36)
Nilo Silvan
October 1st, 2009
11:50 am
Disregard the Boras clients in bold thing.
mudcat
October 1st, 2009
11:54 am
Decline the Tim Hudson option, saving $12 million in payroll. Use that money plus whatever it takes to sign Jason Bay(LF). You’ve got your power hitter(30-40 HRs & 100 RBIs) to bat behind Chipper, giving Chipper better pitches to hit and revive his career. That would also take the pressure off McCann, putting him in the 5 hole. Your whole offense is instantly better. Offer Laroche a two year contract.
sladersaan
October 1st, 2009
11:56 am
I agree the braves need a power bat at one of the corners. What this team has seriously lacked since Furcal left is a true leadoff hitter. There is little to no speed on this team and that puts no fear in opposing pitchers. I find it no coincidence that the Braves have missed the playoffs since Furcal left. McClouth, Escobar, Johnson are all good 2,5,6,7 or 8 hitters but not lead off. We need to get a 2nd baseman that is a true leadoff hitter or package Escobar for a true shortstop leadoff hitter and other pieces.
If we keep the current ss,2b,cf combo, then one of the corners needs to be a leadoff hitter. This team is close with the pitching, corner infielders and catcher but the lineup needs speed from someplace. We have 8 hitters that should be in the lineup somewhere between 2 and 8…..something has to change there.
my $.02
BravesBabe
October 1st, 2009
11:56 am
Yunel Escobar the best player on the team? Right. Mmmhmmm. Yeah.
NOT.
The attitude, the mediocrity.
He was better toward the end of the season, but still.
Unless we’re completely desperate, I say leave the minor league boys for another year and ensure they’re ready( send the A and AA guys on to Gwinnett and make sure they can handle it before the hit the Ted and freeze). We’ve got pieces, but Bobby doesn’t put them together in the right order.
1B- LaRoche
2B- Infante
SS- Escobar(but get rid of that “i’m not going to hustle to first” attitude)
3B- Prado(sorry Chipper, but you don’t impress me)
P- looks good overall, but Kris Medlen could use another year in the minors and Kawakami makes a FAR better reliever than a starter. And we could lose Soriano and I wouldn’t complain.
C- is there a choice besides McCann? Ross is a great back-up but I see no reason to mess with one of the best catchers in baseball.
OF- Diaz/McLouth/Church
The combination works, if McLouth’s back will hold out. If anything, bring Brandon Jones up in place of Anderson and platoon him with Nate.
And whatever else we do, for the love of baseball, get rid of Greg Norton. Please. I’ve been a Braves fan for 20 years. Don’t insult my fandom with such a ridiculous excuse for a pinch hitter.
Obviously that’s just my opinion, but I believe it would work.
Sam Si
October 1st, 2009
12:02 pm
Again, this is not a talent issue, but a coaching issue.
Ayankeebrave
October 1st, 2009
12:03 pm
i just got off the phone with my buddy and we were wondering who is available in the outfield besides cameron we have no idea. if anyone has a list that would be great.
Huddy's Ligament
October 1st, 2009
12:03 pm
Matty D. proved last night why he’s never been a full-time player. Go back and check all of his boneheaded plays and at-bats and I wonder why he doesn’t get put under the microscope like Escobar.
Diaz is a cool guy, but he’s somewhat of a bonehead on the field. Plus, he’s got a bit of Francouer in him and will swing at anything. He’s just got better plate coverage somehow, but not much better discipline.
Matt Diaz is a 4th outfielder – as Jeff duly notes – and is Church even still on this team?
I don’t have any solutions because I don’t think we’ll be in on the Holliday/Bay sweepstakes, so I’m looking for Wren to pull off one of those deals we never saw coming.
Ayankeebrave
October 1st, 2009
12:04 pm
and there it is thanks nilo
Huddy's Ligament
October 1st, 2009
12:06 pm
Could we pry Brian Roberts away from the O’s by dangling some pitching?
San Diego Rockies Fan
October 1st, 2009
12:07 pm
Hi everyone, San Diego Roxfan here. Regarding the outfield, you reallly should look at dealing with Colorado. They’ve got 5 outfielders (6 if you count EY Jr.) and no way they can keep them all. In fact, some of them are starting to bitch about not playing. The Rox would probably be willing to deal b/c its out of the division.
Billy Bob
October 1st, 2009
12:08 pm
Nilo,
Use the “strong” HTML tag – “bold” doesn’t work.
Lowcountry Bulldawg
October 1st, 2009
12:08 pm
Jeff,
Did you go back to my reasons as to why the fans don’t come out to watchthe Braves for this outfield article- or rather blog? This is why! Not talent, nobody to make you wanna go watch!
Lowcountry Bulldawg
October 1st, 2009
12:08 pm
Jeff,
Did you go back to my reasons as to why the fans don’t come out to watch the Braves for this outfield article- or rather blog? This is why! Not talent, nobody to make you wanna go watch!
EAZYE
October 1st, 2009
12:08 pm
cant stand the braves……..some of the guys on the team look like rednecks from the hills……racist and inbred……lol (McCLOUTH,LaROCHE,CHIPPER,SCHAFER)looks like they like to hunt and listen to country music……lol and matt DEE AZ always seems to wear his pants too tight.. whats up with that?? and why does he pronounce his name DI AZ and not DEE AZ??? denying his heritage maybe? lol
Tomahawk Mafia
October 1st, 2009
12:11 pm
If they do chose to alter their outfield, they need to get some players that can run down the baseball and prevent runs. This Braves outfield, and defense in general has been awful this year in terms of getting to balls. They rank near the bottom of the Major Leagues in Ultimate Zone Rating. With the Braves great pitching staff, and some defenders that can catch a few more falls, this team could be unstoppable.
Nilo Silvan
October 1st, 2009
12:11 pm
Ayankeebrave, I posted the list at 11:49 am. There doesn’t seem to be much quality out there in my opinion. Also just read where Carl Crawford is almost 100% certain to be in TB next year.
Braves fan 4 life
October 1st, 2009
12:11 pm
I suspect that the person posting messages under the name Sid Bream is really just Andy Van Slyke! He hasn’t gotten over Otis Nixon robbing him of a home run or having to sulk in centerfield after Sid slid home with the clincher in the 92 NCLS!
Brian
October 1st, 2009
12:16 pm
Tomahawk Mafia, I agree, and an outfield with McLouth in left, Schafer or Cameron in CF, and Heyward in right would instantly be an enormous defensive upgrade from 2009. I think it would go from one of the worst outfields in baseball to one of the best, defensively that is.
McCann Fan
October 1st, 2009
12:16 pm
Thanks for the list Nilo. I sure would like to have either Jason Bay, Matt Holliday, or Carl Crawford. I think Holliday and Bay are going to be too expensive but maybe it’s time to suck it up and lock in a stud for a few years. We need power, but I would take Crawford’s .307, 15 homers, and 60 steals.
For the sake of argument, let’s say all three would command $15 million per year. Would you rather have Bay (.264, 36, 115, 159 k’s), Holliday (.311, 24, 105), or Crawford (.307, 15, 68, 60 steals)?
I lean toward Holliday but I don’t think we would pay him what Boras will ask.
Skeezix
October 1st, 2009
12:19 pm
The outfield is still the biggest issue and was the biggest issue before the season started. Wren now needs to correct his mistakes and get rid of McLouth, Church and Anderson and add some real reliable defense, power (and hopefully speed) to this line up. I never understood the excitement over McLouth and we now know that Wren pulled the plug too soon on Frenchy. I hope I never have to see Anderson play in the outfield in a Braves uniform again. He has absolutely no hustle. Unless the ball is really easy to get to on the fly, he just saunters over to wherever it’s going to stop rolling and weakly tosses it back. When you’re a 270 hitter, you better play great defense. Acquiring Anderson was another terrible move by Wren.
Brian
October 1st, 2009
12:25 pm
Of Bay, Holliday, and Crawford, certainly Crawford is the most valuable player. But that is irrelevant, because Crawford won’t be available, and Bay and Holliday will be out of the Braves’ price range. To discuss the possibility that they have a chance at one of the three is just a waste of blog bandwidth.
Can it
October 1st, 2009
12:27 pm
Hey: How about deleting that ignorant inflammatory post from EAZYE?
Can it
October 1st, 2009
12:27 pm
Hey Jeff: How about deleting that ignorant inflammatory post from EAZYE?
Braves fan 4 life
October 1st, 2009
12:38 pm
I’m sick of all the people here who obviously know nothing about baseball yet still trash Bobby Cox. He is -by far- the best manager in baseball for the last several generations. People say that he has mismanaged his bullpen, but the stats do not back that up at all. Our team pitching stats show that we have one of the top staff’s in the NL (not just starters, but overall!) It is easy to look at things in hindsight and say that something was a bad move, but all offensive moves in baseball fail over 2/3 of the time! A .333 success rating is considered outstanding, and Bobby’s is that much or better when it comes to making game decisions. When someone posts “Bobby Cox needs to go” I know right away that person is ignorant when it comes to baseball! There is not a person associated with baseball (players, managers, GM’s, writers, etc.) who would say Bobby has lost it, or that he would rank anywhere below the top three managers of this generation.
GO BRAVES
Yunel Asscobar
October 1st, 2009
12:41 pm
Jeff – thanks for a good piece. I agree w/mudcat:
1. Jason Bay in left – adds power, consistency, and needed RBI
2. McClouth in center – he provides at least a bit of the speed that we desperately need
3. Diaz in rf – the guy can hit a ton and needs to be given a shot to play every day
4. Jordan – put him in Gwinnett for a full, healthy year of experience
5. LaRoche – sign him for 2 yrs until Freeman is ready to rock
6. Pitching – if you have to lose someone, KK or Hudson
7. Norton – cannot have a future in this organization. He cannot hit consistently, appears in too many critical situations, and has horrible ABs. Conrad is on the bench and can at least put the ball in play, hit a deep fly to drive in the run, move a runner over, etc. Norton failed to do virtually any of those things – the fundamentals to winning baseball. Take him away so Bobby doesn’t let the “loyalty gene” get in the way of good baseball decisions!
Born2Buzz
October 1st, 2009
12:42 pm
Greg Norton…snicker, snort, gafaww. What a joke. Did you actually put his name there as another option?
If Bobby sends him to the plate one more time Bobby should be shot.
bbf
October 1st, 2009
12:42 pm
Jeff, you couldn’t be more wrong about the Braves outfielding – Their Outfielding is Outstanding! The Braves have had only one main problem this year – Consistent Offense. If it weren’t for simply 2 things: Cox’s mistakes in not taking KK out sooner(when he was a starter pitcher), a few times, then with Lowe – and more consistent offense – The Braves would indeed, without doubt, be going to the playoffs, hands down!
McCann Fan
October 1st, 2009
12:43 pm
Brian, just posing a question for fun dude. Don’t get your panties in a wad.
Wouldn’t you rather be shut down by three 10’s before settling on the 7? At least you tried.
Navigator
October 1st, 2009
12:45 pm
Platoon Diaz, have you been talking to BCox (has to platoon somebody). Diaz is the only full time starter in the outfield. The rest of the starters shouldn’t be here next year. Starting with Garrett Anderson, who acts like he wants to be somewhere else, so lets help him out by cutting him. Nate McLouth can’t lay off the high pitch, and history tells us his affliction can’t be cured. Don’t cry over Francoeur, who after leaving Atlanta, his batting average rose only to fall again at the end of the season. He will spend his career as a journeyman outfielder. Infante is a hitter and terrific infielder, the question is will the Braves groom him to replace Chipper? The Braves also have a number of bench players and pitchers that have drawn a check for no good reason, and most of them should be gone. Lastly, do we really have to go through another year of inept managing from Cox. If he has the talent to pick quality out the pack, get him on that job now!
kaygeeone
October 1st, 2009
12:47 pm
My take: 1st Roachie, nothing has changed with him. Why did we get him back? He shaved his goatie and the team went to heck. 2nd. Prado and Omar are great at 2nd, platoon them there. 3rd. Chipper (I’d rather be hunting Jones) just plain sucks! Go home Hoss and quit complaining. Really this cat has been forever my fav. player, but this year he needs a bottle and bib! Shortstop: keep Pablos cousin, he ain’t bad. Left Field: Send Anderson home! The only thing he can hit is fastballs, big whoop! He can’t run, can’t throw, and he doesn’t hussel, fire his slow a$$. Center field: Nater Salad, I love this guy. He’s no 2003 Andrew Jones, but there will never be another 2003 A.J. This guy steals bases which is a good thing, maybe other Braves will learn how to do this, nah! However, someone tell this cat to THROW the Dang Ball!!! Right Field: Put Church in the game! Enough Said. McCann and Ross are Great. No complaints there. Pitching: D Lowe is a great pitcher….sometimes. Kenshin, not bad….Huddy…As advertised, great pitcher, very solid. J.J Almost Cy Young material, no sh1t……. Javy V.: Prob. our best, should win a Cy Young this year! Gonzo? I love this dude….(He rocks) get it? he rocks…..Soriano: great…when he doesn’t throw taters for homers……shave that thing on your chin or braid it…….really. Moylan and Irish dude, can’t think of his name right now…..both are very good in the pen…..Lastly…….Chris Medlen: He is a wigger!!!! Someone show him how to properly wear a baseball cap. Bend the bill butt-head! This cat knows how to lose a game. Sorry I’m so rough on this kid, but he stinks! When he comes into a game I change the channel because I know what the outcome will be. With all things being even, this is a fairly odd team. But that’s just my opine.
JACKIE K
October 1st, 2009
12:53 pm
why do we keep players like Greg Norton who can’t hit his weight?
Shaun
October 1st, 2009
12:53 pm
Heyward is likely to be up at some point rather early in the 2010 season, and he will likely deserve to be.
He’s no Schafer.
Heyward’s AVG/OBP/SLG: .318/.391/.508. 105 BB/138 SO in 1003 minor league plate appearances mostly as a teenager.
Schafer: .269/.337/.446, 148 BB/368 SO in 1635 minor league plate appearances between the ages of 18-22.
So Heyward’s numbers are far superior and he advanced quicker.
Tyger
October 1st, 2009
12:54 pm
BARRY BONDS…
Any team so obviously in need of power, yet refuses to sign the HR KING, is deserving of its fate. You cant tell me that the team wouldn’t have been better. Politics cost the Braves big-time. They need a superstar, they have enough spunky white guys, they need star-power and Chipper, McCann, McClouth ain’t it.
Oscar
October 1st, 2009
12:54 pm
Enter your comments here Tired of same ole station to station baseball played by the Braves. We need speed and some power. This Braves team was slow until they got on the base paths and then they got slower. Bring back Otis Nixon. I bet he is still faster than some of our guys today.
jim
October 1st, 2009
12:55 pm
Sign Jason Bay, re-sign Soriano. Let Gonzo go. Let Hudson go. Trade Vasquez for an outfielder. Return Kawakami to the rotation and find a 5th starter. Figure they couldn’t afford both McLouth and LaRoach. If can re-sign LaRoach, trade McLouth for relief picthing.
O'Brien
October 1st, 2009
12:56 pm
If Crawford is available, he would be cheaper than Jason Bay amd Matt Holliday, so he would be my pick.
As far as Holliday/Bay goes, if we sign either, would the Braves have to give up their 1st round pick?
Our best option would be Holliday, because we will not outbid the Red Sox for Bay, and since we gave Lowe the big contract last year, maybe Boras will have us in his good graces.
Or take a chance on Xavier Nady.
THE ROCK
October 1st, 2009
1:00 pm
no matter who you get , you still have cox for another year
chrisw148
October 1st, 2009
1:03 pm
The Braves need to be in the market for Carl Crawford the winter, a perfect fit in left field. Then trade at some point of a power hitter but those are few and far between at the moment.
Matt
October 1st, 2009
1:05 pm
Had Bobby Cox not been the mgr this year, the Braves would never have made the run they did and would have been out of the race a month ago and would probably be about 12-15 gaves back right now.
Larry A
October 1st, 2009
1:05 pm
I have said all year, they need corner OF and 1B. If they resign LaRoche, they have 1B covered with the potential of a young replacement in a couple years. Diaz will never be more than a platoon player, a very good one, maybe he and Anderson could make a nice platoon out there – or some other left handed LF. They need to go find a RF who can rake it and has a good arm.
Frankly, I don’t care if the CF hits .250 with little power as long as he plays solid defense and covers a lot of ground – McLouth is fine in that regard. The Braves have an excellent hitting SS and C, two positions generally “weaker” in the offensive category so they can afford a weak hitting CF.
3B is a problem. Chipper can’t handle the daily grind, his defense has become horrendous and he is just not producing the power numbers at the plate anymore.
I also think the Braves should move a starter, preferably Derek Lowe. Was not a fan of his signing, great guy but he is not a #1 starter and he is not going to lead the staff, unless leading it means the highest ERA on the staff – maybe send him back to the pen? Jurgens is our #1 starter, followed by Vazquez, Hanson, Hudson and Kawakami (he is a solid #4 starter). That is 2 guys recognized as #1 starters followed by Vasquez who has pretty impressive stuff and then Hudson (who may develop #1 stuff again) and Kawakami. Would be nice to get a lefty in there somewhere if they could figure out how to get to demons out of Reyes’ head – but I am not sure who you dump out of those five – they all have earned the right to be in the rotation next year.
I also believe, from what I have seen, that Kris Medlen would make a serviceable lower rotation starter (#4/#5), which could free the Braves up to deal some more from the starters – and most teams would give up a good OF for a good starter. Obviously, Jurrgens and Hanson are untouchable, Vasquez may be, Hudson is an unknown (WHIP is 1.50 – yikes) and Kawikami is average.
Nativebird
October 1st, 2009
1:08 pm
Braves? are the Braves still playing?
mowreck
October 1st, 2009
1:12 pm
I watch the game last nite and in the ninth inning when Diaz broke for the home, it wasn’t his fault he got caught going back to third. If you watch the film, you will see the batter, probably not knowing the ball had bounce off the catchers shin guard, held his hand up to Diaz to stop. Then when he saw the ball he started waving him home. Well, that little hesitation of stopping cause him to make the out. Of course, in my opinion, Diaz SHOULD HAVE pick up the flight of the ball and been breaking for home. Remember the old saying, “he who hesitates is lost”, really fitted that situation.
ManOfTeal
October 1st, 2009
1:17 pm
@Nativebird who said, “Braves? are the Braves still playing?”
No, not since Monday.
Go Marlins!!!
Ricky Nolasco OWNS the Braves.
ManOfTeal
October 1st, 2009
1:22 pm
What’s really funny is that your seem to think that the outfield is the problem….YOU RANK 20th in the league in hitting….there are 9 positions….
Not to mention that most homeruns hit by a Braves hitter hit all year was 20…EPIC FAIL!!!!
Go Marlins!!!!
O'drama
October 1st, 2009
1:22 pm
Keep in mind that the Braves won’t be able to keep everybody they have and add, add, add.
They are going to need to give up someone in order to get anything decent. This could be by trade or free agency. Payroll is a major hurdle for this team.
You figure letting Hudson go will free enough to probably sign LaRoach or an Outfielder both not both. I believe Soriano and Gonzo are free agents so will need to sign one of them.
I don’t see them trading McCann and it would be impossible to trade Chipper, Kawakami, or Lowe. A lot of the players have no value to a different team.
That leaves McClouth, Prado, Escobar, Jurjens, Hanson, Vasquez, and maybe Diaz, Infante, and Ross as the only players that would be worth anything in a trade. I’m not sure what interest the middle relief would get.
Unless Wren can get very creative and possible trade for somoene who is recently up and coming and not yet into their first big contract, we are going to have to lose a key player in order to get something that might help us.
jim
October 1st, 2009
1:28 pm
Outfield is obviously the problem.
Batting consists of 9 positions. OF is 33% of this and the major contributing factor to batting.
When you think back, Matt Diaz is the only outfielder that has had any success for all of this season. All of the other outfielders who have played the position have either sucked or have played well below avg.
ChippersLoveChild
October 1st, 2009
1:28 pm
Trade Jair and Medlen for Prince Fielder. Power problem solved.
go dj !!
October 1st, 2009
1:28 pm
As much as i love Chip………….. trade him. It sucks to say, but the bravos are delaying the inevitable. This team has alot of talent, but a few decisions arent being made. First… sign Javy.. let Hudson go. sorry. second.. find a bonafide power hitter. For years we’ve been the best team in a mediocre NL east now the Phillies, Marlins, Mets (this year exception) are just out performing us. Truth hurts but we gotta look at what and how there doing and duplicate it.
ChippersLoveChild
October 1st, 2009
1:31 pm
LarryA, you seem to be as stupid as most Braves fan. You can’t trade your garbage players and expect to get anything back. It’s like the people who thought we could move Frenchy for Greinke in the offseason last year, lol. If you want real talent back you will HAVE to give up someone like Jair, not just say here is Derek Lowe and his high contract, now give me Matt Kemp, Ryan Braun, etc. etc. please.
rico43
October 1st, 2009
1:32 pm
Cameron is 37, and people are rallying to have him? The Braves need to stay calm and realize that they had the best team in the NL the second half of the season. Let’s see in the spring if Schafer is ready from his wrist surgery — if so, make him the CF and leadoff man and move McLouth to left. If not, leave McLouth in CF and Diaz in LF until he is ready. If Heyward is ready, make him the RF, if not, keep Church (if healthy) in right until he’s ready. Church is under contract to the team.
LaRoche’s power is essential to have back. The infield needs to be left as is. I would impress Chipper on the need to spend the winter doing Pilates or something to stretch out all these muscles he keeps pulling.
ChippersLoveChild
October 1st, 2009
1:33 pm
What can you get for Chipper at this point? You can’t hide his inability to stay healthy and if this year is an indication, his declining numbers at the plate and poor play in the field. Who is going to want Chipper? An AL team to DH? You have to get Chipper to approve a trade too, it’s not that easy. You can’t say hey Chip, we have this deal on the table with Toronto, and expect him to take it.
Daniel
October 1st, 2009
1:33 pm
Jeff-
I think your break down on the OF was pretty much right on.
1) I am going to stay with McClouth, bad year, lot of turmoil. I feel fine going in with him as our starting centerfielder/leadoff man.
2) Matt Diaz- put together a GREAT season for himself. I don’t know why, but I still would prefer him to be our 4th outfielder.
3) Heyward will be the big story of spring training, will he be ready? The answer to that question changes a lot of things.
4) GA- was what he was, solid, cheap, see you later
5) Jordan Schafer is NOT the real deal, HGH helped, but not anymore. Forget about him
6) Blanco/Church: whatever, decent utility guys you keep in AAA for a quick call up here or there.
So the way I see it we need one nice upgrade in the outfield. Jason Bay would be great, but NO WAY the Red Sox are letting him go.
I have always liked Xavier Nady, he has had some injuries this year, but I like him as an option.
Dat Dude
October 1st, 2009
1:34 pm
Greg Norton is not an option. He is the worst player in the majors and needs to be shown the door.
P-Town Brave
October 1st, 2009
1:34 pm
LF – Jermaine Dye (option won’t be picked up by White Sox)
CF – Nate McLouth
RF – Matt Diaz/Jordan Schafer (to start season)
If Diaz and Schafer don’t work out in RF, the team can promote Heyward more quickly. If they do work out, they can take their time with Jason in AAA. Not only that, it will give them an extra option to give both McLouth and Dye days off.
The team desperately needs a RH power bat, and with the fact that I don’t feel like the team would be able to accomodate the salaries of Holliday or Bay, Dye would be a pretty good choice.
This also runs concurrent with the Braves signing LaRoche, because if the team lays an egg at 1b, they would then desperately need to grab either Holliday or Bay, no matter the cost.
Send Kawakami out for a bench bat and bullpen arm and the team should be set.
Wagner would be a good pickup for the pen to close as well and I think that could get done given the removal of Church, Johnson, and Kawakami through non tenders and the trade.
The team does have the makings of a solid club for next year, but more power (1-2 bats) and another arm in the pen is necessary to complete the season from game 1 to game 162 and not just half a season.
ChippersLoveChild
October 1st, 2009
1:35 pm
LaRoche has been great, for the second half. It makes me laugh how quickly people have forgotten how much of a headache his play was the first time he was here. He isn’t a first half player, and he is still worse than 90% of the first basemen in the NL, we can upgrade, don’t keep this scrub around. Thanks for what you’ve done Adam while you’ve been back. Now please leave again.
P-Town Brave
October 1st, 2009
1:39 pm
O’Brien-
Yes Holliday and Bay would cost 1st rounders BUT we are already getting those picks from whoever decides to sign Gonzalez and Soriano. (both Type A) AND if we were unable to sign LaRoche and instead offered him arbitration and he went elsewhere we get a sandwich pick (Type B).
Finally, if we were dumb enough to offer Kelly arbitration, he’s still a Type B (unsure how) so thats a sandwich pick. I frankly don’t see us offering him arb and if we did either he’d take it or a team wouldn’t sign him til after the deadline as he’s not even worth the sandwich pick at this point.
That is the story though…
Sonny Clusters
October 1st, 2009
1:47 pm
When we was playing ball together we always appreciated a second chance. We was thinking maybe Jeff should get a second chance with the Braves. Even with the great run of the past couple weeks it is hard to look forward to next year with Bobby Cox. Coach could be available if asked and Coach was a state championship.
rico43
October 1st, 2009
1:49 pm
LaRoche worse than 90 percent of the NL first baseman? In what way? Not defense, not average, not power. What are your criteria for suckiness?
Bay and Holliday will be seeking Teixeira-sized contracts next year. Not that they will get them, but that pretty much excludes the Braves from the bidding from the get-go. Those who see Dye back here are probably closer to the mark. I lean towards Willingham.
Al Smith
October 1st, 2009
1:50 pm
I think Greg Norton’s earned a chance to start. If he can just get more play time he could be a solid player.
StingerSplash
October 1st, 2009
1:51 pm
Thirteen dingers and 61 RBIs certainly is a little. Now, for the investment the Braves made in Loaf, not a bad return. But given his track record as a hitter … hmm … might want to re-think that.
Diaz’s power numbers are on par and he’s hitting 40 points higher than GA, at half a mil less a year. Keep Diaz.
But find a bopper to put in left pronto.
Brian
October 1st, 2009
1:55 pm
P-Town, what are you talking about with Kelly Johnson being a Type B free agent? He’s not eligible to be a free agent at all for another two years unless the Braves non-tender him. I think he still has some value in a trade, so I don’t see the Braves non-tendering him.
G.N.
October 1st, 2009
1:57 pm
I think they ought to give Greg Norton a shot at LF next season. He just has not been able to get in a groove this season because he just pinch hits. I am sure with some consistent playing time, Norty will prove all of you doubters wrong!
Don’t worry Greg, anyone can go through a 10 for 75 slump. You’ll snap out of it.
Al Smith
October 1st, 2009
1:58 pm
Seriously though Bobby Cox is easily the worst manager in the bigs. I have mlb extra innings, I watch a lot of games. Can you name anyone that’s worse? Is it just me or does it seem like he’s managing with the intent of having the braves lose? I mean really lol
Michael
October 1st, 2009
1:58 pm
I cannot understand why Greg Norton is on a major league roster. He has failed 95% of the time the Braves bring him up to pinch hit. Please don’t bring him or Kelly Johnson back next season.
Michael
mexican-brave
October 1st, 2009
2:00 pm
Al Smith – i’m with you, bobby cox simply sucks…although we need to seriously improve our offense…but with the pitching we have, we should have won the nl east
jim
October 1st, 2009
2:01 pm
LOL about greg norton.
Peter
October 1st, 2009
2:01 pm
Jeff Have you been watching the games for real ??????
We need a hitting coach that tresses……KNOWING THE STRIKE ZONE !
How many times have the Braves struck out on Bad pitches in the last week ?????