Braves may be forced to trade Vazquez

????

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As great as Huddie has been lately, let’s remember that his first few years in the Braves rotation were a huge disappointment. Vazquez is a consistent winner, with a healthy arm. For those reasons, you gotta keep Javy and bid good-bye to Huddie!

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Eat some of Lowe’s contract and trade him. That seems like the best option.

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Trade Javy before the end of the season. May get some value for him. He has been great but it’s a business. Go Jackets. Dave sucks.

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I agree Lowe needs to go (never wanted him). However, his contract may be too high to move. Let’s hope he learns a new game next year.

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FIRE MIKE WOODSON!

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We’ve released all our other previous greats, why not continue the trend with Tim Hudson. I’d hate to see him go, or any of them (except Lowe or Kawakami) for that matter. The truth is, Lowe & Kawakami are both way over payed. I think trading Kawakami & picking up part of his contract will hurt next season, but will be best for the long run, and for our rotation. Anybody else being payed more than they should be based on their play as of late? Larry Wayne.

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Enter your comments here

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Release Greg Norton, trade Kawakami and eat some $$$ (he only has two years left), re-sign Vasquez, release Greg Norton, pick up Hudson’s option, force Bobby Cox to retire, convert Kelly Johnson to ball boy and think about releasing Greg Norton.

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The Braves would be making a large mistake to get rid of Vazquez but it would be in line with all the blunders the Braves have made in the past and will probaly continue to make.

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Let Hudson walk and keep Vazquez. Of course if they can trade KK without absorbing to much of his salary then keeping Hudson, even with the much higher cost, would be the best option.

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I don’t agree with your premise that there is no market for a quality starter such as Kawakami for 6.7 mil. a year. There are probably at least a few clubs that would have interest for a starter with a low ERA who can give you consistant quality starts at that price. It would depend on what Wren demands in return. Trading Lowe with his fat contract isn’t going to happen. See what the market is for Hudson and Vazquez in the future and base your decision on that appraisal. JJ and Hanson are our aces of the future. If I had to make a decision right now I would thank Hudson and wish him the best with his next team.

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Trading Kawakami makes the most sense. The Braves may have to eat half of the salary but in the end it is better than losing Vasquez.

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Jeff, serious question here. Is Lance Niekro still with the organization? If so, any word on how/if he’s progressing with the knuckler?

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KIP

What is there to think about re releasing Mr Norton?

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trade vasquez for crawford and re sign gonzo call up heyward release kelly and church
lineup
1.crawford
2.mclouth
3.jones
4.mccann
5.heyward
6.diaz.
7.prado
8.escobar

piching
hudson
hanson
jurrjens
medlen
lowe
resign hudson and add a closer

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Certainly don’t release Hudson or Vasquez! Don’t we have some other choices in the lower leagues other Hanson! Not a bad problem to have!

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I think there will be a demand for both Lowe and Kawakami on the market this winter. I also think both Hudson and Vaz will extend for less money to stay in Atlanta. I would look to move Lowe first, for obvious financial reasons. Kawi is a very good MOR/BOR starter singed to a very good contract for 2010-11.

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Trade Javy? Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!

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i’m with you braves girl,,don’t trade javy…by the way, how young are u braves grrrl?

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I love it here! No matter how much I suck(and I really do suck!), my manager keeps sending me to the plate so I can swing and miss the ball by two feet! What a great life! And they pay me big bucks to do it!

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Based on numbers alone I’d say take a hit on Lowe’s salary and trade him but how much of a hit would probably be the key factor. When you consider the Braves know they will have to add a big bat my guess is they will trade Vazquez and hope Lowe has a better year next year? Lowe wouldn’t be a bad number three guy if we were paying him like a number 1 guy!

By the way Vazquez spoke in front of about 10,000 after the game this past Sunday and did a wonderful job. He spoke of his faith in Christ and his upbring that helped make the man he is today. Vazquez is a good man and the kind of guy you’d spend more money on just to keep around. Great Year but a better man!

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Just another reason the Kawakami deal was stupid. Bradley, for some reason is in love with the guy, but he’s too expensive for what he is. If Vazquez is the odd man out, they’d better get a lot for him. He’s worth a lot. To me, he’s not arguably the ace, he definitely has been.

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If the Braves had any brains they would find a way to keep Vazquez. How can we be sure Hudson is ready to come back for an entire season when he’s only pitched 2 games?

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The experiment with KK in relief blew up Sunday. I think KK was the wrong SP to go to the ‘pen. He is still getting accustomed to MLB and I feel like Bobby made a bad decision by running him out there. Give Hanson a little rest, and put Lowe in the ‘pen.

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I’ve said all along that I think the Braves’ best option is to trade Vazquez while his value is as high as it’s ever going to be. It’s the only option available that could result in the Braves getting an impact bat.

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Trade Vazquez for Crawford….
Thanks for another retarded post

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Who is Crawford? Isn’t he that guy the Hawks got from Golden State?

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Bravesfan79, we was talking at the family picknic and I says, why don’t we put Kawakami in the bullpen, he can’t perform any worse there than he does now. Kawakami was over paid and we was expecting that from him, and he belongs nowhere else than in the pen. We was making a BIG mistake when we was signing Lowe to the contract, too. Lowe was never an ace, but we was reluctant to let him go. When we was yunger we had a player like Kawakami who was new to the league and wasn’t performing all that well, but we decided to use him as a reliever and he was then striking out the best hitters because we wasn’t letting him get worn out.

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I have Forte on my FF team also. OH, trade Hudson for a power hitting right fielder. Sign LaRoche and release Norton, PLEASE.

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Norton can perform hitting better if he takes lessons from us Clumps.

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Trade Lowe. Eat contract. Talent is talent. Money is money. Don’t get it twisted.

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I have an idea ……… Lets make the right changes so we are not looking foward to the next season before playoffs next year. BRILLIANT

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Trade “The Dragonslayer”, Anderson, Church, Norton {sorry, he evokes memories of Jackie Gleason} et. al, get some serious power bat or let the kids play, DO NOT unload Hudson or Vasquez…or Escobar…OR…how about a payroll infusion?

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Nah, the Braves couldn’t get Crawford for Vazquez, nor would the Rays trade for Vazquez, given their payroll situation. I could see the Braves getting someone like Ryan Ludwick from the Cardinals, and if he keeps on pitching well, maybe a prospect too. You have to look at teams that are looking for pitching, and have payroll flexibility to take on a 10+ million dollar salary next year. The Dodgers could be interested, but what do they have to offer us that they’d be willing to part with? James Loney isn’t a good fit for us. The Mets will want pitching, but they hardly have any pieces to move. AL teams will be hesitant to go after Vazquez.

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The Braves have clearly been great on the pitching end this year. The rotation has far exceeded my expectations. The main force behind all this is none other than Javier Vazquez. This was Frank Wren’s biggest offseason addition. Bar NONE! I am a huge fan of Tim Hudson, he’s a solid pitcher. But, Atlanta was clearly doing fine without him, thanks to Javy Vazquez. Derek Lowe has been extremely disappointing… hate to say. They need to keep Javier Vazquez on this team, he’s the reason the Braves have stuck around this year in the first place!

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Come on folks we are in a free fall…..starting with the manager who burns out the Pen each year !

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Great rid of Wren, he is the one that way over paid for Lowe and Kawakami and put the Braves in this position.

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Personally I’d do everything in my power to relieve the Braves of Derek Lowe. Kawakami has pitched much better over the long haul than him despite what the records say. Under no circumstances do I let Vazquez go. He’s the most consistent pitcher they’ve had all year as well as the most reliable.

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Greg Norton is not my friend

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You have to trade vazquez for offense. We need a corner outfielder, preferably right-handed, in the middle of our line-up. The problem with releasing Hudson is that we would get nothing in return. KK’s been fine. He’s our fifth starter. And I love what Javy Vasquez has done for us this year, but show where he’s been able to put together back to back great seasons.
Year Team W L ERA
2002 Mon 10 13 3.91
2003 Mon 13 12 3.24
2004 NYY 14 10 4.91
2005 Ari 11 15 4.42
2006 CWS 11 12 4.84
2007 CWS 15 8 3.74
2008 CWS 12 16 4.67
2009 Atl 12 9 3.06

Trade him now. His value will never be higher. We traded prospects for him last year, and we can maybe turn him into a major league player. This, to me, is a no-brainer.

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Kawakami should have been traded to a contender near the trade deadline. Either he or Lowe should be traded in the off season, even for a couple of minor leaguers.

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Vazquez is NOT a consistent winner. He’s one of those guys who too often pitches just well enough to lose. When they needed him to step up over the last few weeks, he’s been at his worst. And that has been the pattern throughout his career: Nice ERA, lots of Ks but no big winner. I think something’s missing with him. Plus he’s 33 and at the height of his trade value; the Braves could get back an everyday player that could help. I say deal him.

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FIRE BOOBY COX!

FIRE MARK RICHT!

HIRE JEFF SCHULTZ!

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I would play go fish with Lowe and Varquez. I would use the bait that gets the biggest fish. Wren is dealing with strength.

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I don’t care which one you trade, but get someone who can consistantly hit 30 dingers a year in return!!!!

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Trading Vazquez is the wrong move. I’d trade Hudson or Lowe. KK won’t get you anything in return.

If teams won’t give the Braves what they want, threaten to tell Greg Norton that they really want him to play there next year. How does he still have a locker at Turner Field?

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And I’d lock up Hanson and JJ into a McCann-like contract ASAP. 5 years at 7 mil a year.

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Just how does it benefit the Braves to have Japanese fans, Lank? Who gives a rat’s whisker?

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Here’s an encouraging way to look at this situation: when they traded for Vazquez and signed Lowe and Kawakami, the Braves obviously knew they would have six pitchers for five slots for 2010. Vazquez, Kawakami, and Hudson in his rehab so far, have all exceeded expectations, at least IMO. I think the Braves have a plan in place, and it obviously helps matters tremendously that those pitchers have performed well. If you trade one, they get a bigger return. If you keep them, then you are more confident they will continue to perform well. It is not and never will be a bad thing to have too many good pitchers. The test for Frank Wren this off-season is to find a way to turn six starters into five starters and an improved offense. Whether that’s through a trade, a free agent signing, or minor league call-up, that is clearly the task.

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Suave shampoo, If there’s another Ichiro that comes around one day, you wouldn’t want him here?

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Don’t ya hate Sonny Clumps? Sonny Clumps is to Sonny Clusters like Dr. Pepper is to Dr. Perky at the Save A Lot.

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Get rid of the not well spoken GM Frank, Trade Lazy G Anderson, So So Lowe, Not a hitter K Johnson, Average Church, bring in some go getters with some power and speed, and someone to teach Good Ol Boy Bobby (love’em) to play a little more small ball more often. You’ve got the players Mclough, Prado, Daiz. Omar, Yunel to get the job done. Bunt, steal, hit and run with this team. Stop depending on the big homerun or the that big clutch hit all the time. Don’t trade Javy what a mistake that would be. Really just stupid.

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Could we pry Brian Roberts away from Baltimore by offering Vazquez?
Would solve lead-off and speed problem.

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Still gotta ask, why do so many of you think you can slam our players, say how bad they are, and then trade them for somebody good. Al Davis is in the NFL, got any othere suckers out there?

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Some examples of their options (not talking about batting)

– Let Hudson walk and immediately save $12 million next year
– Keep Hudson and then eat a couple million of Kawakami’s contract and trade him. Meaning you save about $4.5 million per year, and you probably will get a couple of very low value prospects. You then have to try to fill in the fifth spot in 2011 since Hudson’s contract will be up afte next year.
– Keep Hudson and then eat about hald of Lowe’s contract and trade him. Meaning you save about $5 million per year, and you probably will get a couple of very low value prospects. You then have to try to fill in the fifth spot in 2011 since Hudson’s contract will be up afte next year.

The reality is, Lowe has given the Braves roughly what they wanted. He is chewing up a large number of innings, and his ERA isn’t that much higher than his career average. The Braves expected a little better, but not much. They knew what they were getting. His ERA may be higher, but the work he has saved the bullpen has helped the ERA for the rest of the TEAM. That is what this is about folks.

Eating up innings was a priority after the debacle of 2008, and Lowe has done a fine job of that. It helps the team as a whole and it is far too often overlooked by people who just focus on ERA’s and K’s. Hudson is probably worth his contract more than Lowe is, even if you add a partial buyout on Lowe during a trade. The question is, can we trust Hudson to be healthy like Lowe, and can we resign him beyond next year?

As for trading for a power hitting corner infielder or outfielder, you people are cracking me up. Neither Lowe nor Kawakami would bring back an average corner infielder in return and power hitting OF’s are becoming fewer and fewer. The Braves OF hasn’t been as big a problem this year as the absolute lack of infield hitting for most of the year. Until we got LaRoche the infield as a whole has been a singles hitting hole of nothingness. Chipper has been far below average, Escobar, KJ, Prado, and Infante simply can’t stay healthy. Kotchman was possibly the worst experiment in the history of Atlanta baseball.

My thoughts.

Sign LaRoche, as we need a KNOWN quantity at one corner infield position going into next year. He likes Atlanta and would probably choose the Braves over most other teams if the contract was the same. First base was the biggest reason we stunk for the first half of the season and it’s the one position where you can get GREAT value for the money if you are willing to pay more than a million or two. First baseman rarely tend to miss fewer games than other positions, so you get your money’s worth on them. The Braves need to stop being cheap at first base. For the rest of the infield trade Prado, Infante, or KJ for prospects. We don’t need all these guys and could possibly get some good prospects for them because they are young and major league starting material. Chipper is locked down at third with full trade veto rights, so he isn’t going anywhere. Sign Escobar NOW, and stop griping about his fiery attitude.

For the OF we have McLouth, Diaz, and Church under contract for next year I believe. Let Garrett walk. Buy Norton a ticket out of town. If Freeman or Shafer are ready, one of them can come up as a platoon / spot starter and get 300 AB’s or so. With the contracts we have in the OF, we really have no room to add a power hitting bat and its salary, unless we move someone. Nor do we really need a power bat if those three have decent years, as all of them can hit 15-20 homers and bat around .300, which is absolutely fine.

By not resigning GA and Hudson we will be about $14 million less in payroll next year, which should be used to lock down Escobar or Jurrgens ahead of time.

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Wren did pay too much for Lowe and KK. If we lose Huddy or Vasquez (both way better than Lowe or KK) because he foolishly overpaid, then Wren should go.

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Huddy’s Ligament, I just don’t see Baltimore in the mode of trading for anyone except prospects, at least not this year. They are not a starting pitcher away from contending. It’s almost impossible to trade major league pieces to teams that don’t plan to contend.

Just speculation on my part and I’m not expert, but I’d say the Mets, Cardinals, Brewers, Dodgers, Angels, White Sox, and Rangers are possible teams who will be looking for starting pitching and will not be shy about adding 10-12 million in salary for it. I don’t think AL teams will be as high on JV (which means a smaller return for him). The White Sox wouldn’t be interest in Jvay.

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This is a tough decision, indeed. The knock on Javy in Chicago was he had a tendency to fall back on his breaking ball too much instead of using the fastball.

Clearly, the coaching staff here has helped him figure out a few things and so he’s having quite the year.

Does this year’s pitching line continue or does he revert back to the .500, roughly 4.00 ERA pitcher he’s been for more than a decade?

In my opinion, how Wren answers that particular question will probably dictate who is here next year and who is gone.

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Steve, I like the fact that you are one of the few I see taking a realistic view on the value of the players the Braves could trade. But in your scenario, I don’t see how the Braves really improve that much, unless you’re just saying you want to punt the 2010 season. You say you’re content with an outfield of McLouth, Diaz, and Church “as all of them can hit 15-20 homers and bat around .300″. The problem is not a single one of the three have ever done that.

You’ve got it backwards when you say the Braves’ outfield is decent and the infield is bad. The Braves’ infielders are 5th in the NL in OPS. Their outfielders are 14th.

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Jake7 -

I don’t know why you asked me about Chipper, since I hadn’t mentioned hime, but regarding your question, I can only judge based on what I see on TV. I’ve never seen anything to suggest that they don’t respect him; he doesn’t seem to be an outcast in the dugout by any means, and I’ve never heard any player talk down about him. i think they realize that historically he has carried the team more than once, although he’s having a bad year by his standards.

Do I think the environment needs to change? That goes back to all of the Bobby Cox posts, but that’s a different topic. I will say that this year, the Braves seem to sleep-walking half the time, so it really stands out when you see a guy like Diaz busting his butt hustling.

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RC,
You must not have HIGH expections of Chipper……whose the the 3rd baseman that was HIGHLY respected…..CAL RIPKEN?? How old was he when he retired…40 something….didn’t miss a day at work. You are in la la LAND if you think he deserves to be our next manager!!

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Chipper as a manager, my goodness he can’t lead as a player. Maybe he can manage Buck Belue’s men’s softball team in Hahira and then go huntin.’ Package Jones with one of the arms to either Texas team (he will be close to his ranch and his illegal migrant workers) and use the freed up money on free agents.

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amen Hire Frank Wren

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In my opinion, KK is a #5 starter (on our staff) right now, and to pay him 2 years, $15 mil, thats too much. But another team could use him as their #4 guy.

All the Braves would need (in terms of trade for KK) is a solid OF (with a year or 2 left on his contract) who can bridge the gap to Heyward.

If we start next year with Diaz in LF, Nate in CF, LaRoach at 1B, then we should not start off as horrible as we did this year (with Frenchy, KJ, and Schaffer being automatic outs), although I’m still not sold on Prado as our everyday 2B.

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This seems pretty simple to me. Lowe is a proven winner. I mean, even though he has had what you would call an “off year” by his standards, he still is 4 games over .500. KK has not proven anything. None of the Japenese pitchers that come here hang around for vrey long (Nomo, Saito, even Dice-K went down hill this year. So, trade KK and eat some of his contract. By the way, who says we have to unload huge payroll on a pitcher? Release Church, Johnson, Norton, etc. And is it just me, or does free agent Matt Holiday not seem like the perfect fit for Atlanta? Yeah we will be needing a right handed clean-up hitter and a left fielder cause GA will be gone (thank God, don’t get me started on that lazy slug). Holliday is the perfect fit. We are one blockbuster deal away from a World Series Braves fans! Just go with it here a second:

1 McCloth
2 Prado
3 Chipper
4 Holliday
5 McCann
6 Escobar
7 Diaz
8 (Laroace, Freeman?)

Hudson
Hanson
Jurrjens
Vazquez
Lowe

w/ Medlin ready to fill in for injuries and Moylan, Gonzo, and Soriano for 7, 8, 9!

….Beautiful…

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Brian,RC,
Maybe I’m a little older…but I’ve followed the Braves a looong time and I know when you have a special player(impact player) and Chipper is NOT it !! He’s been a very good player but not GREAT.

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I’d prefer to see the Braves find a way to get rid of Lowe before any of the others, but it looks like we’ll have to see what we can get for Vasquez. There’s never enough pitching, so go for the pitching prospects, unless there is a right-handed power-hitting bat available.

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Jake 7 and Steve Brown Nothing personal but Chipper is one of the great Braves if you have been watching for a that long you should no that. Hank, Murphy, Phil, Mattews, Smoltz, Glavine, Maddog, He is easliy in the top 9-10 on the Braves. If your talking about in the history of the game that is a whole different topic. Eat another cheese puff.

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Alternate Reality,
You said he carried the team …..I didn’t. It’s a TEAM game, no doubt,and he can’t take the HIT for our failures to have more WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS….but he is NOT Mr. October!!

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RC,
How did you know I like cheese puffs…..you are the BEST!!

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If I were JJ, with a 10-10 record, while sporting some of the best numbers in the NL ( strikeout to walk, ERA) I’d pray each night the Braves would move me to a team that could hit when I take the mound.
Gotta move Chipper, ( I hate that), obtain a power hitter for the outfield ( should have gotten Adam Dunn after all) and somehow get a manager in here who will put his size 12 in someone’s rear end when it is warranted… Come to think of it, Pendleton would do just that…

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Brian what in the world is Jake 7 talking about. He must be a lot older because he hasn’t learned how to turn the page

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Eagle 91 I agree JJ and Javy should each be 20 games winners with a little small ball offense, since the hits didn’t happen for them this year

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RC,
That wasn’t nice…..you and Brian going to gang up?? The Truth hurts sometimes……….

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Trading Vazquez would be a tragedy for both the team and the player. He has finally found a home. Do anything necessary to keep him.

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John or Bobby if you read this get rid of Frank, and get someone that is well spoken, knows a little about baseball, players, and understands the value of money for either long or short term deals. After a few years move Chipper to manager.
Guys have a great afternoon and jake 7 have a cheese puff on me, jk.

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trade Chipper. He’s getting old, oft-injured, and eating up alot of salary.

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RC,
Don’t go…………..Chipper to MANAGER…..have a cheese puff on me!

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Make Chipper a player-coach!

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RC:

IT’S “HERSCHEL” NOT “HERSHEL.”

BOOBY IS A GOOD MAN (EXCEPT FOR THE WIFE SLAP 15 YEARS BACK). NO DENYING THAT. THE FACT THAT HE HAS BEEN LOYAL IS HIS PROBLEM. HE WAS LOYAL TO CHUCK JAMES, JO JO REYES, ANDRUW JONES HITTING CLEANUP, FRENCHY, RUSS ORTIZ, MARK REDMAN, AND ON AND ON AND ON. THE MAN HAS NO TACTICAL SKILLS. ALL HE DOES IS MANAGE SUPERSTAR EGOS, WHICH HE DOES WELL. BUT CLEARLY THE TIME FOR THAT HAS COME AND GONE ON THIS TEAM. WE NEED A YOUNG GUY WITH SOME FIRE, NOT SOME NOSE-PICKING, EGO-CONTROLLING GUY WHO CAN’T MANAGE A GAME SITUATION TO SAVE HIS LIFE. KUDOS TO BOOBY FOR ALL THE DIVISION TITLES AND WORLD SERIES CHOKES, BUT IT’S TIME TO MOVE ON.

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Ashman,,,,,,,,,,, why not Chipper is a lover not a better like Pete (still the man) he should be in the Hall of Fame like Chipper will be one day.

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Herschel,
You are RIGHT! It’s a great attribute to be LOYAL but…….It comes down to make the right decisions for your team ! Bobby been a very good manager..not GREAT…..but it’s TIME for him to get on his TRACTOR and ride off into the sunset!

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Right now the Lowe deal doesnt look too great. But at the time what did you want Frank W to do? Our opening day starting 5 without Lowe would have been Javy, JJ, KK, JoJo Reyes, Greg Norton. So, what exactly should have been done at that point to get a respectable starting 5 for opening day?

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Herschell: You left of Tommy Gregg from that list…remember him?

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JT: I agree they took a chance on Lowe, because after losing Pevy, they had to do something. But, most everyone knew, at the time, they over paid for him. There wasn’t much out there at the time, and sometimes you just take your chances.

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What in the world did Tommy Gregg ever do for the Braves TOM B

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Man I forgot about ol Tommy Gregg, I’ve met him outstanding guy. But other than that is his number retired. HoF, I’m missing something

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So why is it always “trade Kawakami” when his numbers are slightly better, and his contract is cheaper?

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For all of the praise heaped upon Frank Wren for this pitching staff, this very problem has been coming for a long time. It was nice while it lasted (one entire season), but it won’t be in place for 2010. Wren has indeed painted himself into a corner. It won’t be easy for him to get out.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see him try to get rid of two players from the group of Lowe, Kawakami, Vazquez and Hudson.

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I think tommy played a little more than norton. Both of these guys are really the same. an big leaguer just happy to be on a time, like I would be. the word used is for a pinch hitter. If they where like Matt Stairs (phillies on their way to repeat) they would see more action. I’m sure matt doesn’t think he is being used.

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We was thinking the thing this team needs most is a good hitter. Getting rid of the pitching will mean they’re gonna need some more pitching, too. We got to thinking that Chipper only wants to play about ever fourth or fifth game so we would turn Chipper into a pitcher and let somebody else come in to play third. We was also thinking that this makes more sense than letting Chipper manage. If Chipper ever was to manage and he injured his nostril he could bleed to death right there in the dugout. They is no need to lose a future Hall of Famer to nose picking.

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Jeff,
You can’t depend on Huddy for the LONG haul…I would put my money on JAVY!!

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Keep Hudson, Javy, JJ, Hanwson, KK has to go Lowe should go. I’ll just buy more peanuts and beer at the games. $4.50 peanuts and beer $7.50. I’ll try and do my little part.

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Hey HERSHEL Lockhart was a gamer

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What the hell has happened to Chipper Jones? He is the main reason we had lost 5 straight.
He hits like Norton. Fire Booby Cox and his staff, trade Norton for Corky Miller and hang on to both
Hudson & Vasquez. Trade Chipper if anyone will have him and play Infante at 3rd. Also need a
Right handed power bat.

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release Greg Norton trade kk lowe chipper throw in cox and you dont need both infante prado same type players keep one I wouldnt mind seeing prince fielder here chipper jones is washed up it time for a new face for the braves just let him go you hangin on to the past oh dont forget cox cause he will kill a pitcher if hes tired bobby gone throw him out there lets gettem kid hes to old

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Tom B I see your point

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RC – LOCKHART WAS NOT A GAMER, YOU PUTZ. ALSO, FOR GOSH DARN SAKES, GET A SPELL CHECKER. AND FOR SOMEONE WHO IS TELLING EVERYONE TO CHECK OUT OTHER PEOPLE’S RESPONSES, FOR YOU NOT TO UNDERSTAND WHAT TOMB WAS SAYING IS LAUGHABLE. IN ADDITION TO A SPELL CHECK, GET A BRAIN. I ALMOST FORGOT – YOU LIKE MEN.

TOMB SPEAKS THE TRUTH ABOUT BOOBY!!! EVERYONE READ WHAT HE WROTE AT 4:41, EXCEPT FOR THE PART ABOUT IT WORKING SOMETIMES. THE TRUTH IS THAT IT WORKED VERY RARELY. ANYWAY, TOMB KNOWS WHAT HE’S TALKING ABOUT.

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The most realistic scenario is definitely to trade KK. I don’t even think it would be necessary eat any cash either. There are plenty of teams out there that would take a reasonably durable starter that keeps opponent BA to .250 for under $7 mil/year. He has proven to be a good big game pitcher as well (based on how he has done against the best opposing pitchers). Having the worst run support on the team hasn’t helped his record, that’s for sure.

A better scenario, though less realistic, is to trade Lowe. He has had a terrible year that would look that much worse if the Braves bats weren’t so hot every time he pitches. It’s tough to give up on him though because aside from his last year in Boston, his numbers this year are so much worse than his career averages. So is it a fluke? You can only hope other teams would think so. Tough to tell…But to risk $15 mil/year on it is a gamble. Take that money, put it into some bats (in the trade or elsewhere), and the pitching staff doesn’t lose a beat.

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Jeff, I really hope that the Braves don’t trade Vazquez. That would be a huge mistake. He’s young, and has had a great year. Think of where we would be without him.

I really wish there was a way we could trade Lowe. He hasnt been that great, he’s going to be 37, and we have him for three more years. This is the same orginization that seven years ago wouldnt give 36 year old 242 game winner Tom Glavine an extra year on his contract, after 16 good years with us. Sad.

Hudson is younger than Lowe, and I think it would be a big mistake to just let him walk.

The best option I see is to trade both Lowe and KK, and pick up some of Lowe’s contract. Then pick up Hudson’s option. You then have Hudson, JJ, Vazquez, and Hanson. Even in the good years, Bobby rarely had a solid or consistent fifth starter. He can always find a rookie, or take someone out of the pen, next year.

I will be very unhappy if we trade Vazquez.

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Just when we was feeling like we was on to something with the big move to Dunwoody coming up and partnering with Jeff and being Clusters and Schultz, Team-Writers, we was brought back to earth with the realization that Jeff already has a Best of Cox and we haven’t even got one of our own. That would probably make us Schultz and Clusters instead of Clusters and Schultz. We was always taught to be fair and equitable in our dealings with others and this is probably the right thing to do.

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Who cares about the Braves–they are a speck on the wall. Football has started.

They should never, never have resigned the always hurt chipper jones–what are they paying him for sore back, sore abdomen, tummy ache etc., etc. Always something from him

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Easy solution…trade Greg Norton for Albert Pujoles, trade Manny “I’ll Cost Ya” for K-Rod, and KK to St. Louis for Adam Wainwright (sp?). Of course, Wren will have to kick in a lot of Scotch and pa’ote. Maybe, ole Bobby will have to be thrown in, too. Peace.

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This just out! Medical Alert! Chipper has caught the Frenchy disease.

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Go Braves I have grown up with the Braves, I am a great fan. I love it when they win but it is hard to take when they lose like they lose.

I know it is said that all fan have a notion that their team should win everytime. But nobody can ruin a fans good feeling like our Braves.

I can tell you how bad it is to lose games decided by one run-Look at last year. Look at this year and the 14-17 games we gave away. How can it become such a systemic pattern. What are the Braves made of. What is Bobby Cox and his staff made of.

We are out played and out hustled by every team in baseball. The Braves go about their business unlike the 14 champions teams that came out knowing they were going to kick the crap out of the other team.

Where is the swagger , where is the leadership Whats worse is the way they seem to know all the other player on the other teams . They act like they are at a tv telethon and I am sick of it.

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We was wondering where Jeff is and if we should get started on a new blog since me and Jeff are now Schultz and Clusters, Team-Writers. This should give us a big advantage over Mark Bradley since he is still solo and Jeff has a Clusters to work with. We was thinking that Chipper might still have a sore abdomen and some lower back problems because he looks troubled at the plate. When Stinky Wintes went about 4 days without a movement we had to have him treated by a doctor and when that boy let loose he was feeling so much better he was hitting the ball to all fields. Chipper has a look on his face that reminds us a lot of what Stinky looked like when he was backed up real bad.

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Sonny Clusters likes men

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I’d eat a contract rather than keep KK or Lowe and trade Vasquez. Of course it’s not my money and I’m just typing on a blog.

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Suave, I actually think Clumps is better than Clusters.

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Herschel Talker, you are hilarious.

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We had a little dog we called Trey because he only had three legs and was stupid. That dog was pitiful then one day Coach come up and said he’d like to take Trey home with him and take care of him and see if he could help him grow a new leg. Maybe ol’ Trey is blogging now.

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Funny Clusters.

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Clusters, why are you talking junk about me like that? What about the dude who said you like men?

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Clusters, ya can’t go, I actually did type in Sonny Clusters but that was an actual accident.

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Big Braves fan, I cant agree with your idea.

A closer should be a guy who can come in, and blow hitters away for one inning. Yes, Lowe has closed before, but he doesnt throw hard enough to close. Hudson is a sinkerballer. He wouldnt be a good option at closer either.

If we are talking about the closer, and both Soriano and Gonzo’s contracts are up, I think we have to sign Soriano, and let Gonzo go, if we can only afford one. Soriano has been very good this year.

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Darn, I actually feel kind of guilty.

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Four outs to go.

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liberty media may not be that good, but they are better than time warner.

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Trade Vazquez while his value is high. We can get a big bat, or a Carl Crawford type… a leadoff hitter that will lead the NL in steals, just what we need. I am a Vazquez fan, but it would be in our best interest to trade him.

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I know he’s not a starter, but they need to seriously consider getting rid of/trading Soriono!!! He’s ruined toooo many games for us now! He is NOT a closer! It was an unbelievable lose tonight and should not have happened.

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Fire Bobby Cox before he loses another game.

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Stick around for the post game show with Bobby Cox. Should be worth a few laughs.

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Well, Bobby butchered another game by relieving Hanson with Soriano tonight. Joe Simpson was right: Hanson deserved a shot at finishing the game. He’d retired seven in a row and was throwing 95 mph in the 8th.

Conclusion? Time for Bobby’s retirement party, whether he wants to go or not. Then let the new manager and Wren figured out the personnel.

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OK, OK, I’ve got the farm where I want it and I’m looking forward to my retirement party. Actually, for you out there that did’nt suspect(or know) it, I have been retired for about seven years now, but the pay was too good to pass up, so I just sat around the dugout eating peanuts, etc. Besides I had to stay around long enough to get the “game toss” record. Boy will I be glad to finally get this over with. Any other manager would have been out on his a@@ long before now but those pictures I have sure came in handy! I’ll go ahead and burn them at the end of the season.

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Trade Chipper Jones
Release Greg Norton
Trade Rafael Soriano
Trade Yunel Escobar
Trade Mike Gonzales
Trade Tim Hudson
Fire Bobby Cox

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We need a righty power bat. There are none. Rotation of Vasquez/JJ/Hanson/Huddy is the best in baseball. Try to extend Vasquez and Huddy. Shortly Heyward/Freddie/Cody (he has to improve his defense and batting average) should be ready. Diaz and Prado (the Lemmer he is not) are challenged defensively. There are no 30 homer righty bats.

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I was a pretty good closer and I didn’t have a blazing fastball

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I think to satisfy everyone on this blog we should trade BobbyC & GNorton to the Cards For TonyLa and AlbertP. I’m sure StL would make that trade in a second.
Seriously, I have been a big Chipper & McCann fan in the past, but these past few weeks have been awful. In the middle of a pennant race, big-time players (see AlbertP, Ryan Howard, etc.) step up, not step off. Their lack of production has been much more significant to the Bravos missing the post season than Bobby Cox or Greg Norton.

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Chipper’s days batting third or above 5th for that matter are over.

McCann’s days hitting clean up are over.

Bobby will be gone this winter and a winning line up card will be built hopefully with Holliday, Bay or Adrian Gonzales batting 4th.

Book it.

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If the Braves want to improve in 2010, they should do the following: Keep the current starting pitching staff in place including signing Hudson for 2010. Try to sign La Roche to a 2-yr deal until Freeman is ready. Trade the following players: Johnson, Acosta, Norton, Anderson, Logan, Carlyle and Soriano. Actively go after a RH Power Hitting Outfielder adn backfill any open slots through promotion of youngsters from the minor leagues! What do you think?

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I think we first need to look at Vasquez’s career numbers. He is a fly ball pitcher that gives up a TON of HR’s. For some reason that has not happened this year. He is on the last year of his contract and most likely will not have a repeat of this year. He is great trade bait and will give you the most return on investment.

Clear and simple choice. Trade Vazquez, get some young talent, and resign huddy to a 3 year deal.

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Steve, the only difference between five and six man rotations is the extra day causing them to have less chances to winning at least 15 games.

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Frankie, I doubt Chipper will perform as poorly. I just think he had an off year, because Chipper’s age would not have shown so quickly from last year and the beginning of this year to now. He was performing well, until one day and went on that long slump. I doubt his age has anything to do with that.

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Thank you Braves Fan for your 10:01 post! It’s what I’ve been saying for years.

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visit pbcfaotbc.com and join the movement. That’s Pack Bobby Cox’s Fat Ass Off To Bartow County).com

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Pick up Hudson. Keep everyone, but everyone’s available. Either run out half your payroll with starting pitching and filled with youngsters in the field, or make that trade that improves the club. The Braves are in good shape when the market shapes up. Maybe they should trade two starters and find another one!

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Kawakami is not as bad as people make him out to be… if he got run support he’d have a lot more wins. I think think he’ll be much better next year anyways. What we get in return is a LOT more important that who we trade. We need a big bat or 8 in the worst way!

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[...] Tim Hudson has an expensive option at $12 million. But we also know that if he can come back next season as strong as he has shown in two recent starts, he’s one of the top pitchers on the Braves staff. Javier Vazquez is going into the final year of his contract at $11.5 million. If you’ve always wondered why his name keeps coming up in trade talks, that’s why. The Braves can’t keep everybody, not merely because of numbers but because of dollars. If you add Derek Lowe, Kenshin Kawakami, Hudson and Vazquez, that’s about $45.2 million for four pitchers, nearly half the team’s payroll (approximately $97 million). – Atlanta Journal-Constitution Read complete story here. [...]

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Whatever happens, the possible trade of Vasquez can’t simply be a salary dump. They need to get a decent hitter. Wren has been creative before, when he needed to be, so I just hope he can do it again.

I really don’t see any team wanting to trade for Kawakami; Braves might as well be resigned to just keep him.

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release hudson, he hasn’t pitched for sometime now. u can’t trade vazquez he’s been the most consistent & effective starter since the start of the season. which would u rather have injury free & consistent or injury proned & ineffective.

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What about moving Kawakami to the bullpen as the closer? Soriano’s contract is up at the end of the year and if I am not mistaken he makes 6 mil a year?? The math adds up plus you have Kawakami as a backup plan if someone gets injured (and Gonzalez can close).

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When will all of the stupid sign and trade or release moves stop? The Braves sign Javy and now can’t keep him? Sounds like the JD Drew deal? Remember JD? The Braves GAVE AWAY Adam Wainwright for a one-year rental player. Stupid. And while we are speaking stupidly, let’s talked about Mark Teixeria. Tex? Not even a full-season of a rental and the Braves simply gave up two starting pitchers and a starting SS to the Texas Rangers who are battling for a playoff spot. The Braves traded Adam LaRoche only to re-aquire him two seasons later! Why sign a free agent or trade for a free agent? Let’s just play the kids in the minor leagues. At least we can see them play in Atlanta for several seasons before losing them to free agency. Oh, enjoy Tommy Hansen while you can…..Hansen will be gone in the blink of a free agent year coming soon!

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This is what would happen in my ideal world. Braves would eat part of Kawakami’s salary and dump him on any team that would accept. They would relese and/or trade Kelly Johnson and Greg Norton. Let Hudson and Garrett Anderson walk. Package a blockbuster trade to the Padres for Adrian Gonzelez. You could package Escobar and LaRoche in the deal. Keep Heyward,Freeman, and Hanson. Sign free agent Jason Bay (or Vladamir Guererro)

Lineup:

McClouth
Prado
A. Gonzalez
Bay
McCann
C. Jones
Diaz/Church
Conrad
Pitcher

Pitching Rotation
1. Vazquez
2. Lowe
3. Jurrjens
4. Hanson
5. Medlen (solid 5th man)

I think with this solution you’d pretty much have to drain the farm, but you’d still have a legitamate rotation and a much more deadly line-up.

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I think there will be market for KK, had the Braves offered some run support he could easily have a good win loss record. Might have to eat a couple mil of his salary, but I still don’t seen how you get the “Big Bat” needed for him. We do need some help in the bullpen, who should be resigned Gonzo or Soriano?

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A power pitcher like Javi is necessary for the balance of the staff. Kawakami at his price is marketable to several teams desperate for starting pitching–chicago cubs,twins, brewers, angels, mets. lowe, as a sinker baller, might be perfect for the cubs or mets. The real problem is the bullpen which is poorly used and lacks consistency and depth. Moylan is no more than a situational matchup guy, not a 7th inning setup. Gonzo is wild high too often and can’t consistently throw strikes when he needs to.

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As much as i hate to say it, i would have to say goodbye Hudson. Great pitcher but if he’s the ACE trying to come back, why worry bout that when you got an ACE thats young and doing GREAT right now????

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You guys are all nuts. Heyward???? As a long time Braves fan, the 2 most touted minor leaguers to come along in the past 10 years were (CAN’T MISS)Lombard and Betemit. Both of whom missed big time. Frenchy and McCann both snuck up on everyone (except the front office) and were not nearly as highly rated at the other 2 I mentioned. Wait for Lombard and Freeman to get here and produce first. As regards to Chipper, I didn’t read any of this crap the last 2 years when he was going strong. Cut a Hall of Famer a little slack, he isn’t the only 1 not producing. And Trading Escobar, probably the best shortstop in the league right now in a package for AG or the Padres. You are all nuts. We gave up 1 shortstop to the Rangers and there is nobady coming up to replace his .400 with RISP in the near future. Imagine how high it could be if Chipper and McCann start getting on base a little more. and one more thing, how stupid do you think other GMs are that they will give up big name player for Braves Castaways. You are all starting to sound like Red Sox and Yankee Fans who think their crap is attractive for everyone else but them.

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Maybe the Mets would be dumb enough to take on the rest of Lowe’s contract. They are pretty desperate for starting pitching.

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The writing is on the wall on this one. all wren has to do is play his cards close to his chest and play them the right way. Vazquez is going to be traded for a bat. he will be used to clear up a small bit of payroll and add to the offence the braves really need.

People around the braves seem to think hudson will not get his option picked up and the braves will more than likely be looking to sign him to more years at a lower rate. the boys in the booth floated this idea a few weeks ago durring a game. and today 9/11/09 tim hudson was on xm home plate and said what he would really like to happen is for the braves to sign him for more years and he would be willing to take less money.

i would be shocked if next year hudson was off the team and Vazquez wasnt used to upgrade the offence.

wren has options. no matter how bad everyone thinks the deals for pitching were. the fact that they pitched well gives the braves the upper hand in any move they want to make this offseason.

09 was not a dissapointment… i believe wren and bobby knew they were a year away from something special… and i would be shocked if on opining day we are sitting here upset with the moves wren makes and the team that he put on the field. could be much worse. we could all be met fans!

GO BRAVES!

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I was just reading the posts this morning and I got this crazy idea. Instead of using this current pitching system of starters, relievers, closers, why not use a starter for 5 innings, then bring in another starter for the last 4 innings. You could give each starter an equal opportunity taking the 1st 5 innings and thus the win. Imagine starting with say Hudson and then going with Hanson in the back half or vise versa. I guess you could say that the back 4 pitcher could be considered the closer for that game. By the way, we have enough starters to do this.

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Is it me or has this board been looking at the line up scenario all wrong. I mean first of all who says we absolutely must decide to trade any of our starting pitchers. We paid them all this year and no one is due a raise. In actuality KK will cost $1M less. We are dealing from a position of strength bc we have the greatest commodity in baseball; excess starting pitching. Salary wise we are looking good I mean look who has the potential of coming off of the books Mike Gonzalez $3.45M, Kelly Johnson $2.825M, Soriano $6.1M, Loaf $2.5, and about $3-4M that we have slotted for first base. After rounding up that’s about $19M and what are we missing after? A set up man, closer, and a first baseman.

So in the minors we have Freeman (1b) and Heyward (OF) just itching to come up but we have no legitimate 3rd baseman to replace Chipper who wants to leave in the next year or two. My suggestion would be to move Chipper to 1st to hold Freeman’s slot while he develops and target a young 3rd baseman in a trade or FA to make up for a lack of one in our farm system. The most viable solution will probably involve trading Vazquez (savings of $11.5M). I believe that with Gonzo and Soriano being type A free agents their value wont be as high with other teams so the braves can submit low ball offers to both and ink the first one who agrees. If both leave that’s a net of two first rounders each and about $10M to sign a closer. So to summarize get better by realizing that you are in a strong position and not overreact.

2010 Batting Order
CF McClouth
2B Prado
1B Chipper
3B (Power hitter acquired in Vazquez trade)
C Mac
SS Escobar
OF Diaz
OF Church
Bench (Infante, Conrad, Schaffer, Ross etc.)

Pitching
JJ
Hudson
Hanson
Lowe
KK
Moylan as the set up man and either Soriano, Gonzalez, or all-star $10M FA at closer.

This is a great situation to be in you got Heyward coming in the same time as Hanson did last year to prolong his stay with the Braves and Freeman in 2011. You also save some significant money (roughly $10M) so we can lock up Escobar and JJ to McCann like deals. I don’t know about you but I’m hoping for a calm winter.

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Trade, or rather give, Kawakami to Seattle. The Japanese management would love to have him. Take Langerhans or someone like that in return.

That give you a big four rotations for next year and plenty of room to sign a one-year free agent to kill time until Freeman is ready.

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VABraves…no need to move Chipper to 1B…he’s played the most games of any Brave this year so far (imagine that one for a second)…he is a HOF 3B, and doesn’t need to move to 1B, I agree that you keep Gonzo or Soriano, not both, and use the cleared money for a FA or trade for a Power hitting OF. Next year lineup:

McLouth OF
Prado 2B
Chipper 3B
FA POWER HITTER OF
Mac C
Yunel SS
Diaz OF / Heyward OF later in year
Infante 1B / Freeman 1B later in year
SP (Hudson, Vazquez, Jurrjens, Hanson, Lowe/KK)

That lineup right there, and those starting 5 = 100+ wins for the Braves and a VERY good shot at going to the WS…

As long as Greg Norton is gone…

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abudefdef-
Great suggestion moving Infante to 1B I did not think about that it would be a good short term solution and should be considered. Having players like Infante and Prado in the line-up really open up the door for your roster. What is even better is their cost is minimal (Infante 2.225M next year and has a club option for 2011and Prado is not even at arbitration yet). Chipper is a HOF at 3rd with no doubt but even chipper knows that he declined both defensively and offensively this year. I would still much rather sign or trade for a power hitting long term solution at third base and let chipper finish out his time at first. With that being said there is not a lot of solid options at third base on the upcoming FA market with Adrian Beltre and Chone Figgins being what I can see as the best and neither of them would meet our long term power needs. On the trade front it appears to be dim as well with teams that would probably be interested in Vazquez (Angels and Brewers) not having solid 3rd baseman. The market for Outfielders and 1st Base is a lot better so you may be on to something but then again you don’t want to create a log jam for Freeman and Heyward. Either way we both agree that roster moves should be minimal and that we are building a solid core that is ready to compete for the long haul. This year was tough but it leaves you with bitter sweat taste in your mouth because we improved so much over last year.

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Has EVERYONE forgotten that Lowe was a 40-save closer in Boston? Why not let Soriano and Gonzalez walk, freeing up even more payroll, and returning Lowe to the late-man role he once enjoyed. He can’t pitch enough innings per start to be a solid starter anymore (check out his ERA) but he’d be great in relief. Then you have 5 starters, a great closer, and lower payroll because Soriano and Gonzalez are gone.

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The purpose is to KEEP the pitchers that give you the best chance to WIN. Now, of the 5 starters (pre-Hudson), Kawakami and Lowe have the worst ERA.

And with JJ, Hanson, and Vasquez’ ERA, who said that Hudson is the ace of the staff? To me, the ACE is the one that has had the lowest ERA most of the year.

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How bout THIS lineup.

Infante RF
Prado 2B
Diaz LF
Esobar SS
LaRoche 1B
Jones 3B
McCann C
McLOuth CF
( JJ, Hanson, Vasquez, Hudson, and then Lowe (alternately). Trade KK. Basically, go with a 4-man rotation most of the year.

Trade / dump Norton
Trade/ dump Johnson

Trade / dump Church

Keep Anderson

Free up some money and get a power hitter / some speed. LaRoche ain’t the problem. The problem is Chipper has lost his power and McCann, well . . .. . .The # 3 and #4 spots haven’t been getting it done.

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They should trade Kawakami. I doubt anyone would take Lowe at 15 million and he should be a lot better than he was this year. He was great for the Dodgers he has just had a bad year.If the Braves let Hudson leave I’m going to be so pissed.

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It sucks but its the only option that makes sense. I don’t think KK’s contract is all that outrageous, that’s pretty cheap for a starter for all but the poorest teams and I think KK would do well in a city like say…NY or LA but the Braves wouldn’t get the return on KK that they would on Javy V.

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Trade, or rather give, Kawakami to Seattle. The Japanese management would love to have him. Take Langerhans or someone like that in return.

This was a joke, right? Or is there another Langerhans out there that I don’t know about besides the one who played for Atlanta in 05?

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Schultz, You should’ve taken a WR with your first pick if you’re picking in the back half of round 1. You can always scrape together a RB by committee but WR’s aren’t as deep. There’s too much of a dropoff…. Outside of Hanson and Jurrjens (whom the Braves obviously keep), Wren should determine the value of each guy and listen to offers for the other four. Exercise Hudson’s clause because the arm problem was his first, and he’ll be solid when healthy. If the contracts handcuff him, then he’ll have to negotiate an appropriate buyout based on value. Wren doesn’t have to take little in return because if he can’t work a deal, then send one to the bullpen. I assure you someone will get hurt next year and the bullpen will also be taxed by appearances. The money is already invested, so if a guy is on the team, he’s on the team and it counts against payroll. It doesn’t matter if KK, or Lowe for that matter, starts or comes out of the pen he’s still making the same $. It just plain doesn’t make sense to rationalize a players position on the team because of the size of a contract that’s already been inked. Do what’s best for the team’s performance. You can’t cry over spilled milk!

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No matter how inconsistant Lowe is, he is a winner. Not my favorite but still a winner. Kawakami will be better next year because he will have a year in American baseball under his belt. Trade Javy for a power hitting left fielder and a solid middle relief pitcher. We have more good starters coming up from the farm. I also think Medlin will breakout next year.

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[...] conversation has been about what to do with the starting rotation, and how horrible it would be if the Braves had to trade Javier Vazquez. But Chipper Jones’ season and talk of retirement and the recent return to earth of Martin [...]

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[...] there was little interest in the former Red Sox as his contract was prohibitive. This, then, forced Wren to deal Vazquez, who he truly would have liked to keep after the righty’s sensational season (interestingly, [...]

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