Braves may be forced to trade Vazquez
Javier Vazquez threw another gem Wednesday night in Houston.
Of all the things that didn’t work out as planned for the Braves this season, we’ve known a for a while now that Javier Vazquez isn’t one of them. What we don’t know is: Where do they go from here?
Or maybe the better question is: Where does Vazquez go from here?
The ripple effect of the contracts the Braves gave pitchers Derek Lowe (four years, $60 million) and Kenshin Kawakami (three years, $23 million) is going to be felt this off-season. General manager Frank Wren has some options but he’s also somewhat painted into a corner. The chances of trading either Lowe or Kawakami are minimal because of the contracts. So that’s two starters. Tommy Hanson and Jair Jurrjens are young and good and cheap. That’s two more starters. That leaves Vazquez and Tim Hudson for one spot in a five-man rotation.
See where we’re going with this?
Hudson has an expensive option at $12 million. But we also know that if he can come back next season as strong as he has shown in two recent starts, he’s one of the top pitchers on the staff. Vazquez is going into the final year of his contract at $11.5 million. If you’ve always wondered why his name keeps coming up in trade talks, that’s why. The Braves can’t keep everybody, not merely because of numbers but because of dollars. If you add Lowe, Kawakami, Hudson and Vazquez, that’s about $45.2 million for four pitchers, nearly half the team’s payroll (approximately $97 million).
These are the options:
1) Try to trade Lowe or Kawakami (Kawakami is more likely, and the Braves would have to pick up some of his payroll, which kind of defeats the purpose of the trade to begin with).
2) Move Kawakami to the bullpen. The problem is this doesn’t reduce payroll and it creates a $6.7 million pitcher middle reliever.
3) Release Hudson. And there possibly goes the ace of the staff.
4) Trade Vazquez. And there goes possibly the current ace of the staff. (Check out the numbers below.)
Not easy, is it? This problem wouldn’t exist if not for the Lowe’s and Kawakami’s contracts, but now the Braves will have to deal with it.
No poll on this. I figured everybody would vote, “Trade Kawakami,” and I just don’t know how realistic that is. So give me your thoughts.
Braves starters this season
Pitcher GS W-L ERA IP BB KO
Javier Vazquez 28 12-9 3.06 188.1 40 208
Jair Jurrjens 29 10-10 2.93 178.0 64 126
Derek Lowe 29 13-9 4.36 171.1 52 92
Kenshin Kawakami 27 7-11 4.02 145.2 55 99
Tommy Hanson 16 9-3 3.07 93.2 36 78
Kris Medlen 4 3-5 4.68 57.2 28 67
Jo-Jo Reyes 5 0-2 7.00 27 13 21
Tim Hudson 2 1-0 2.19 12.1 4 11
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
334 comments Add your comment
Just Me
September 11th, 2009
2:09 pm
Maybe the Mets would be dumb enough to take on the rest of Lowe’s contract. They are pretty desperate for starting pitching.
Braves Starting Pitchers… Who to Trade? « wire2
September 11th, 2009
2:20 pm
[...] Rosenthal pointed out this dilemma earlier this week, and Jeff Schultz of the AJC is the latest to point it out. In both cases they consider only trading either Hudson or Vazquez, reasoning that Derek Lowe and [...]
Eric In Albany N.Y.
September 11th, 2009
3:08 pm
The writing is on the wall on this one. all wren has to do is play his cards close to his chest and play them the right way. Vazquez is going to be traded for a bat. he will be used to clear up a small bit of payroll and add to the offence the braves really need.
People around the braves seem to think hudson will not get his option picked up and the braves will more than likely be looking to sign him to more years at a lower rate. the boys in the booth floated this idea a few weeks ago durring a game. and today 9/11/09 tim hudson was on xm home plate and said what he would really like to happen is for the braves to sign him for more years and he would be willing to take less money.
i would be shocked if next year hudson was off the team and Vazquez wasnt used to upgrade the offence.
wren has options. no matter how bad everyone thinks the deals for pitching were. the fact that they pitched well gives the braves the upper hand in any move they want to make this offseason.
09 was not a dissapointment… i believe wren and bobby knew they were a year away from something special… and i would be shocked if on opining day we are sitting here upset with the moves wren makes and the team that he put on the field. could be much worse. we could all be met fans!
GO BRAVES!
abudefdef
September 12th, 2009
6:19 am
Wren did a great job building this year, and I think it would be a mistake to trade Vazquez. Try to re-sign Vazquez (a VERY durable pitcher) and Hudson (clearly an ACE quality starter) to long deals, combining them with Jurrjens and Hanson you would have the top 4 starting pitchers in the MLB sitting at Turner Field for a long time! Keep either Kawakami or Lowe, and trade the other one. While the Braves may have to eat some of those contracts, keeping Jurrjens and Hanson would give them the flexibility to do that since their salaries would be relatively low, and the Braves could add a bat with the trade. The prospect of having a starting pitching staff of Hudson, Vazquez, Jurrjens, Hanson, Kawakami (he will be better next year) over the next few years just seems incredible. Add a big bat by trading Lowe, and the Braves could potentially move into the top tier of teams in the game…as long as the ownership allows Wren to do the smart things.
Ownership should remember that when the team does well and has the stars, more people come to the games, which means more tickets/concessions which means more revenue, which is the ultimate goal of the business, right? Get some players in there that will give the fans reasons to go, and you make the money, it’s a vicious cycle, but the ownership has to bring in the players first, and I think they have done that with the pitchers.
Bottom line: eat some of Lowe’s contract and get a batter that can hit the ball all the way to the Gwinnett Braves’ stadium.
KEEP THE FAITH BRAVES NATION!!!
Keep the Faith!
***WHOOOOOOAAAA OOOOOOOOAAAA WHOOOOOOAAAA OOOOOOOOAAAA***
**TOMAHAWK-A-CHOPPIN**
Andy M
September 12th, 2009
7:29 am
I was just reading the posts this morning and I got this crazy idea. Instead of using this current pitching system of starters, relievers, closers, why not use a starter for 5 innings, then bring in another starter for the last 4 innings. You could give each starter an equal opportunity taking the 1st 5 innings and thus the win. Imagine starting with say Hudson and then going with Hanson in the back half or vise versa. I guess you could say that the back 4 pitcher could be considered the closer for that game. By the way, we have enough starters to do this.
Erik
September 12th, 2009
11:53 am
If they trade Vasquez, then they are electing to dismantle one of — if not the most — effective pieces of their team this year. Don’t tear down what works. Don’t tear down what works the best. Keep Vasquez and build around him. If they have to move someone, move D. Lowe (which I don’t recommend) since he was the least effective starter (ignore the record, look at the ERA) and the most expensive. My advice … suck it up Braves, keep the guys you’ve got, and add one more bigger bat in place of G.Anderson. If you build a compelling product, the fans will come back in larger numbers and enable you to pay for the better product. You’ve got the pitchers, finally, so don’t undo that by getting rid of your best one.
VABraves
September 12th, 2009
12:05 pm
Is it me or has this board been looking at the line up scenario all wrong. I mean first of all who says we absolutely must decide to trade any of our starting pitchers. We paid them all this year and no one is due a raise. In actuality KK will cost $1M less. We are dealing from a position of strength bc we have the greatest commodity in baseball; excess starting pitching. Salary wise we are looking good I mean look who has the potential of coming off of the books Mike Gonzalez $3.45M, Kelly Johnson $2.825M, Soriano $6.1M, Loaf $2.5, and about $3-4M that we have slotted for first base. After rounding up that’s about $19M and what are we missing after? A set up man, closer, and a first baseman.
So in the minors we have Freeman (1b) and Heyward (OF) just itching to come up but we have no legitimate 3rd baseman to replace Chipper who wants to leave in the next year or two. My suggestion would be to move Chipper to 1st to hold Freeman’s slot while he develops and target a young 3rd baseman in a trade or FA to make up for a lack of one in our farm system. The most viable solution will probably involve trading Vazquez (savings of $11.5M). I believe that with Gonzo and Soriano being type A free agents their value wont be as high with other teams so the braves can submit low ball offers to both and ink the first one who agrees. If both leave that’s a net of two first rounders each and about $10M to sign a closer. So to summarize get better by realizing that you are in a strong position and not overreact.
2010 Batting Order
CF McClouth
2B Prado
1B Chipper
3B (Power hitter acquired in Vazquez trade)
C Mac
SS Escobar
OF Diaz
OF Church
Bench (Infante, Conrad, Schaffer, Ross etc.)
Pitching
JJ
Hudson
Hanson
Lowe
KK
Moylan as the set up man and either Soriano, Gonzalez, or all-star $10M FA at closer.
This is a great situation to be in you got Heyward coming in the same time as Hanson did last year to prolong his stay with the Braves and Freeman in 2011. You also save some significant money (roughly $10M) so we can lock up Escobar and JJ to McCann like deals. I don’t know about you but I’m hoping for a calm winter.
Raj
September 12th, 2009
1:17 pm
The good thing about the Brave’s situation is they have a distinct surplus in one aspect and a distinct need on the other. We need a consistent power bat in the worst possible way to bat in the middle of the line up and we have an ace which we can deal (Huddie or Javy). If the GM plays his cards right then we can actually build a winner next year!!
GO BRAVES!!
Butch in Aiken
September 12th, 2009
2:07 pm
Trade, or rather give, Kawakami to Seattle. The Japanese management would love to have him. Take Langerhans or someone like that in return.
That give you a big four rotations for next year and plenty of room to sign a one-year free agent to kill time until Freeman is ready.
HAL
September 12th, 2009
8:27 pm
someone posted that anderson would be gone if you promise me that im ok with anything else that happens let one of the ballboys play lf couldent be worse in this life time lol i keep thinking about how ppl dissed ryan klesko his one year in lf and he played rings around loaf and actually ran on and off the field i rember him hitting balls over the fence from time to time too lol
abudefdef
September 13th, 2009
4:28 am
VABraves…no need to move Chipper to 1B…he’s played the most games of any Brave this year so far (imagine that one for a second)…he is a HOF 3B, and doesn’t need to move to 1B, I agree that you keep Gonzo or Soriano, not both, and use the cleared money for a FA or trade for a Power hitting OF. Next year lineup:
McLouth OF
Prado 2B
Chipper 3B
FA POWER HITTER OF
Mac C
Yunel SS
Diaz OF / Heyward OF later in year
Infante 1B / Freeman 1B later in year
SP (Hudson, Vazquez, Jurrjens, Hanson, Lowe/KK)
That lineup right there, and those starting 5 = 100+ wins for the Braves and a VERY good shot at going to the WS…
As long as Greg Norton is gone…
abudefdef
September 13th, 2009
4:30 am
oh yeah, depending on how Freeman/Heyward perform when they come up, they could move up in the order…don’t know about you, but if we’re in a position to have Diaz batting 7th (Diaz should be an everyday starter), with Infante behind him, that ain’t too shabby
VABraves
September 13th, 2009
11:48 am
abudefdef-
Great suggestion moving Infante to 1B I did not think about that it would be a good short term solution and should be considered. Having players like Infante and Prado in the line-up really open up the door for your roster. What is even better is their cost is minimal (Infante 2.225M next year and has a club option for 2011and Prado is not even at arbitration yet). Chipper is a HOF at 3rd with no doubt but even chipper knows that he declined both defensively and offensively this year. I would still much rather sign or trade for a power hitting long term solution at third base and let chipper finish out his time at first. With that being said there is not a lot of solid options at third base on the upcoming FA market with Adrian Beltre and Chone Figgins being what I can see as the best and neither of them would meet our long term power needs. On the trade front it appears to be dim as well with teams that would probably be interested in Vazquez (Angels and Brewers) not having solid 3rd baseman. The market for Outfielders and 1st Base is a lot better so you may be on to something but then again you don’t want to create a log jam for Freeman and Heyward. Either way we both agree that roster moves should be minimal and that we are building a solid core that is ready to compete for the long haul. This year was tough but it leaves you with bitter sweat taste in your mouth because we improved so much over last year.
William
September 13th, 2009
12:07 pm
Pray that KK or Lowe need surgery and insurance will pay salary.
Dan Schlossberg
September 13th, 2009
2:19 pm
Has EVERYONE forgotten that Lowe was a 40-save closer in Boston? Why not let Soriano and Gonzalez walk, freeing up even more payroll, and returning Lowe to the late-man role he once enjoyed. He can’t pitch enough innings per start to be a solid starter anymore (check out his ERA) but he’d be great in relief. Then you have 5 starters, a great closer, and lower payroll because Soriano and Gonzalez are gone.
Guthro
September 13th, 2009
3:45 pm
You don’t win if the number 3, 4 and 5 hitters don’t together produce near 90 HRs and 300 RBIs. Even if Heyward produces 25 and 100, Heyward+Jones+McCann together will at best get you about 60 HRs and 250 RBIs. Not enough. Sign LaRoche, trade Lowe and cash for a HR/RBI man to replace Anderson, rest Chipper 3 days every two weeks, and the team will have a good chance.
Keith B
September 13th, 2009
4:34 pm
The purpose is to KEEP the pitchers that give you the best chance to WIN. Now, of the 5 starters (pre-Hudson), Kawakami and Lowe have the worst ERA.
And with JJ, Hanson, and Vasquez’ ERA, who said that Hudson is the ace of the staff? To me, the ACE is the one that has had the lowest ERA most of the year.
Keith B
September 13th, 2009
4:37 pm
I have a suggestion on how to win more games and cut payroll. Let Bobby Cox retire. That will help us.
We’re 3 weeks away from the end of the season, and he’s still trying to convince himself that Norton is going to come out of a ’slump.’ Furthermore, what is Chipper batting his last 85 games? Yet, he remains in the #3 spot.
Bobby, wake up! The purpose is to WIN ballgames, not placate players who aren’t producing. The fans deserve better than that!
Keith B
September 13th, 2009
4:46 pm
How bout THIS lineup.
Infante RF
Prado 2B
Diaz LF
Esobar SS
LaRoche 1B
Jones 3B
McCann C
McLOuth CF
( JJ, Hanson, Vasquez, Hudson, and then Lowe (alternately). Trade KK. Basically, go with a 4-man rotation most of the year.
Trade / dump Norton
Trade/ dump Johnson
Trade / dump Church
Keep Anderson
Free up some money and get a power hitter / some speed. LaRoche ain’t the problem. The problem is Chipper has lost his power and McCann, well . . .. . .The # 3 and #4 spots haven’t been getting it done.
13th warrior
September 13th, 2009
6:44 pm
great job Mcdowell!! you just convert Javy into a great pitcher, untill this year Javy was a so so pitcher, just the way Duncan do things with the Cardinals, now do i think Javi would do the same great job in 2010? yes!! so use your head general manager and keep him.
scottbravesfan
September 14th, 2009
3:28 am
They should trade Kawakami. I doubt anyone would take Lowe at 15 million and he should be a lot better than he was this year. He was great for the Dodgers he has just had a bad year.If the Braves let Hudson leave I’m going to be so pissed.
scottbravesfan
September 14th, 2009
3:30 am
Keith B,
That is a terrible lineup. If Matt Diaz is the Braves number 3 hitter they might as well not even bother showing up to spring training.
RHR
September 14th, 2009
9:48 am
It sucks but its the only option that makes sense. I don’t think KK’s contract is all that outrageous, that’s pretty cheap for a starter for all but the poorest teams and I think KK would do well in a city like say…NY or LA but the Braves wouldn’t get the return on KK that they would on Javy V.
RHR
September 14th, 2009
9:56 am
I like Dan Schlossberg’s idea too, I’ve seen that kicked around as well and that’s not a bad idea. It sure is a nice problem for Frank Wren to have. What if he could trade Soriano and Gonzo for 2 bats? Or sign 2 bats for the money not resigning them would free up..but then the bullpen would be weak and worn down again by August next year because KK, unless he does a 180 from this season, will only pitch more than 6 innings once or twice all year and the other guys will have games like that every now and then and they’ll have…Medlen, Moylan and…Yikes. Need to hang on to one of those guys..
RHR
September 14th, 2009
9:59 am
Trade, or rather give, Kawakami to Seattle. The Japanese management would love to have him. Take Langerhans or someone like that in return.
This was a joke, right? Or is there another Langerhans out there that I don’t know about besides the one who played for Atlanta in 05?
docbailey
September 14th, 2009
11:18 am
except for Hanson, i think wren fells the rest of the staff is equal and will trade anyone that can get a good return. I hope he signs LaRouche and goes for a young quality 3 base prospect that can move in as soon as chipper retires. If i was going to go for any free agent, i would get Jason Bay. As far as pitching goes, Nolan Ryan has got the Texas staff using his philosophy to strengthen arms to pitch quality and not worry about counts. That is the type of coaching we need. Seems to be working for the Rangers.
chemdawg
September 14th, 2009
11:32 pm
Schultz, You should’ve taken a WR with your first pick if you’re picking in the back half of round 1. You can always scrape together a RB by committee but WR’s aren’t as deep. There’s too much of a dropoff…. Outside of Hanson and Jurrjens (whom the Braves obviously keep), Wren should determine the value of each guy and listen to offers for the other four. Exercise Hudson’s clause because the arm problem was his first, and he’ll be solid when healthy. If the contracts handcuff him, then he’ll have to negotiate an appropriate buyout based on value. Wren doesn’t have to take little in return because if he can’t work a deal, then send one to the bullpen. I assure you someone will get hurt next year and the bullpen will also be taxed by appearances. The money is already invested, so if a guy is on the team, he’s on the team and it counts against payroll. It doesn’t matter if KK, or Lowe for that matter, starts or comes out of the pen he’s still making the same $. It just plain doesn’t make sense to rationalize a players position on the team because of the size of a contract that’s already been inked. Do what’s best for the team’s performance. You can’t cry over spilled milk!
VHH
September 15th, 2009
10:17 am
keep him…promote some rookies…get Chipper to retire and coach…get Liberty to spend more money. We went 14 seasons because we had dominant pitching…Kawakami will come around.
Mike
September 15th, 2009
11:37 am
No matter how inconsistant Lowe is, he is a winner. Not my favorite but still a winner. Kawakami will be better next year because he will have a year in American baseball under his belt. Trade Javy for a power hitting left fielder and a solid middle relief pitcher. We have more good starters coming up from the farm. I also think Medlin will breakout next year.
Los Bravos
September 15th, 2009
12:06 pm
Put Lowe on the market, the yankees, red sox, mets, cubs, have the money to pay him and always are looking for pitching, even if the Braves have to pick up a third of his salary. That still clears ten million for Huddy. Move Diaz to leadoff and let McClouth move down in the lineup to utilize his power. Prado can play first and Infante can play second. Rotation: Javy, Huddy, JJ, Hanson, Kawakami, with Medlen as a backup. Lineup: Diaz, Prado, Chipper, McCann, Mclouth, Escobar, Infante, Church, and the Pitcher. And for the kicker: Moylan as closer with Gonzo as set up man and soriano gone.
A peek into Braves' future (and they're a bit unsettled) | Jeff Schultz
September 15th, 2009
1:17 pm
[...] conversation has been about what to do with the starting rotation, and how horrible it would be if the Braves had to trade Javier Vazquez. But Chipper Jones’ season and talk of retirement and the recent return to earth of Martin [...]
Matt Foust
September 17th, 2009
12:51 pm
u can’t lose a guy like vazquez or lowe tommy hanson there shouldn’t no question he young and good i think kawakami is the best thing to do
Vazquez's nomadic past should not be a concern | The iYankees Blog - A New York Yankees Blog
December 29th, 2009
11:02 am
[...] there was little interest in the former Red Sox as his contract was prohibitive. This, then, forced Wren to deal Vazquez, who he truly would have liked to keep after the righty’s sensational season (interestingly, [...]
Vazquez’s nomadic past not a problem « TYU
January 1st, 2010
2:47 pm
[...] there was little interest in the former Red Sox as his contract was prohibitive. This, then, forced Wren to deal Vazquez, who he truly would have liked to keep after the righty’s sensational season (interestingly, [...]