Braves may be forced to trade Vazquez
Javier Vazquez threw another gem Wednesday night in Houston.
Of all the things that didn’t work out as planned for the Braves this season, we’ve known a for a while now that Javier Vazquez isn’t one of them. What we don’t know is: Where do they go from here?
Or maybe the better question is: Where does Vazquez go from here?
The ripple effect of the contracts the Braves gave pitchers Derek Lowe (four years, $60 million) and Kenshin Kawakami (three years, $23 million) is going to be felt this off-season. General manager Frank Wren has some options but he’s also somewhat painted into a corner. The chances of trading either Lowe or Kawakami are minimal because of the contracts. So that’s two starters. Tommy Hanson and Jair Jurrjens are young and good and cheap. That’s two more starters. That leaves Vazquez and Tim Hudson for one spot in a five-man rotation.
See where we’re going with this?
Hudson has an expensive option at $12 million. But we also know that if he can come back next season as strong as he has shown in two recent starts, he’s one of the top pitchers on the staff. Vazquez is going into the final year of his contract at $11.5 million. If you’ve always wondered why his name keeps coming up in trade talks, that’s why. The Braves can’t keep everybody, not merely because of numbers but because of dollars. If you add Lowe, Kawakami, Hudson and Vazquez, that’s about $45.2 million for four pitchers, nearly half the team’s payroll (approximately $97 million).
These are the options:
1) Try to trade Lowe or Kawakami (Kawakami is more likely, and the Braves would have to pick up some of his payroll, which kind of defeats the purpose of the trade to begin with).
2) Move Kawakami to the bullpen. The problem is this doesn’t reduce payroll and it creates a $6.7 million pitcher middle reliever.
3) Release Hudson. And there possibly goes the ace of the staff.
4) Trade Vazquez. And there goes possibly the current ace of the staff. (Check out the numbers below.)
Not easy, is it? This problem wouldn’t exist if not for the Lowe’s and Kawakami’s contracts, but now the Braves will have to deal with it.
No poll on this. I figured everybody would vote, “Trade Kawakami,” and I just don’t know how realistic that is. So give me your thoughts.
Braves starters this season
Pitcher GS W-L ERA IP BB KO
Javier Vazquez 28 12-9 3.06 188.1 40 208
Jair Jurrjens 29 10-10 2.93 178.0 64 126
Derek Lowe 29 13-9 4.36 171.1 52 92
Kenshin Kawakami 27 7-11 4.02 145.2 55 99
Tommy Hanson 16 9-3 3.07 93.2 36 78
Kris Medlen 4 3-5 4.68 57.2 28 67
Jo-Jo Reyes 5 0-2 7.00 27 13 21
Tim Hudson 2 1-0 2.19 12.1 4 11
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334 comments Add your comment
Jake7
September 9th, 2009
3:25 pm
RC,
That wasn’t nice…..you and Brian going to gang up?? The Truth hurts sometimes……….
e l thayer
September 9th, 2009
3:25 pm
It takes two to trade. But the untouchables to me are Hanson & Jurrjens. Everybody else is on the block. I would love to keep Vazquez
just for the innings pitched. You get nothing if you do not give up something. In a perfect world:
Hudson
Vazquez
Jurrjens
Kawakami
Hanson
But I have never seen a perfect world.
space monkey
September 9th, 2009
3:26 pm
Trading Vazquez would be a tragedy for both the team and the player. He has finally found a home. Do anything necessary to keep him.
Jake7
September 9th, 2009
3:28 pm
RC,
Explain what PAGE we are turning?
RC
September 9th, 2009
3:29 pm
John or Bobby if you read this get rid of Frank, and get someone that is well spoken, knows a little about baseball, players, and understands the value of money for either long or short term deals. After a few years move Chipper to manager.
Guys have a great afternoon and jake 7 have a cheese puff on me, jk.
Brian
September 9th, 2009
3:31 pm
Jake 7, I’m not ganging up on anyone. I’ve just made one post in response to you, and I thought it was quite polite.
i hate to say it but..
September 9th, 2009
3:31 pm
trade Chipper. He’s getting old, oft-injured, and eating up alot of salary.
Jake7
September 9th, 2009
3:32 pm
Vazquez has always been a outstanding pitcher…played on some BAD teams.The American league didn’t work but that happens with a lot of players that trans league.It would be a BUMMER to trade him.
Jake7
September 9th, 2009
3:35 pm
RC,
Don’t go…………..Chipper to MANAGER…..have a cheese puff on me!
RC
September 9th, 2009
3:40 pm
One last thing Hershel Talker you have to be kidding me. Ol Bobby would take you out back and show you a thing or two and I’m not talking about his bat and balls. He has respectfully been loyal to the Braves and is one of the winniest managers in the history of the game. He takes up for his players good or bad. and pretty much tells it like it is. I do think he needs to play more small ball and go against the baseball knowledge book a little more and be more agressive. But he isn’t as bad as you said. Our opinion is like %$# holes everybody hopefully has one unless you are full of it.
ashman
September 9th, 2009
3:44 pm
Make Chipper a player-coach!
RC
September 9th, 2009
3:44 pm
Chipper will be the manager in 3-4 years. jake 7 you’ll sit back and say OL RC wasn’t kidding, give me another cheese puff, please………………………………
Herschel Talker
September 9th, 2009
3:44 pm
RC:
IT’S “HERSCHEL” NOT “HERSHEL.”
BOOBY IS A GOOD MAN (EXCEPT FOR THE WIFE SLAP 15 YEARS BACK). NO DENYING THAT. THE FACT THAT HE HAS BEEN LOYAL IS HIS PROBLEM. HE WAS LOYAL TO CHUCK JAMES, JO JO REYES, ANDRUW JONES HITTING CLEANUP, FRENCHY, RUSS ORTIZ, MARK REDMAN, AND ON AND ON AND ON. THE MAN HAS NO TACTICAL SKILLS. ALL HE DOES IS MANAGE SUPERSTAR EGOS, WHICH HE DOES WELL. BUT CLEARLY THE TIME FOR THAT HAS COME AND GONE ON THIS TEAM. WE NEED A YOUNG GUY WITH SOME FIRE, NOT SOME NOSE-PICKING, EGO-CONTROLLING GUY WHO CAN’T MANAGE A GAME SITUATION TO SAVE HIS LIFE. KUDOS TO BOOBY FOR ALL THE DIVISION TITLES AND WORLD SERIES CHOKES, BUT IT’S TIME TO MOVE ON.
RC
September 9th, 2009
3:47 pm
ashman, why not,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, he’s a lover not a better like Pete(he is still the man) should be in the Hall of Fame, like Chipper will be.
RC
September 9th, 2009
3:49 pm
Ashman,,,,,,,,,,, why not Chipper is a lover not a better like Pete (still the man) he should be in the Hall of Fame like Chipper will be one day.
Chucktown
September 9th, 2009
3:50 pm
I don’t know if anyone has checked this site out but it’s pretty cool, you can bet ‘play’ money and then get real money if you win at least $20. The best part is that you can never lose money as you’ll always start with .10. Apparently they get their revenue from ads and it’s enough to pay out the big winners. I got .30 on the Cardinals right now, and trying to figure out whether to bet on the Braves +1.5.
http://www.centsports.com/?opcode=552456
Jake7
September 9th, 2009
3:55 pm
Herschel,
You are RIGHT! It’s a great attribute to be LOYAL but…….It comes down to make the right decisions for your team ! Bobby been a very good manager..not GREAT…..but it’s TIME for him to get on his TRACTOR and ride off into the sunset!
Smooth
September 9th, 2009
3:55 pm
Once again Jeff is providing his Non Atlanta thoughts. This man played zero sports and there some of you agreeing with his thoughts. I am sure Vasquez will be back, and maybe Jeff will move on.
JT
September 9th, 2009
3:58 pm
Right now the Lowe deal doesnt look too great. But at the time what did you want Frank W to do? Our opening day starting 5 without Lowe would have been Javy, JJ, KK, JoJo Reyes, Greg Norton. So, what exactly should have been done at that point to get a respectable starting 5 for opening day?
Jake7
September 9th, 2009
3:58 pm
RC,
Thought you were leaving…no? Give me your address and I will send you some PUFFS !
TomB
September 9th, 2009
3:59 pm
Herschell: You left of Tommy Gregg from that list…remember him?
RC
September 9th, 2009
3:59 pm
HERSHEL
You need to scroll up a read a little before you start in on the blog. I have mentioned some of the same things. Everyone pickes their nose, and has ego’s. Look at what you wrote , can you say ego or do you even have a clue. If your a Braves fan you take the good with the bad and they get rid of Frank that has been the whole probelm since he took that role. I don’t think Bobby turned his back on those guys. Performance may have been a contributing factor, there HERSHEL
TomB
September 9th, 2009
4:05 pm
JT: I agree they took a chance on Lowe, because after losing Pevy, they had to do something. But, most everyone knew, at the time, they over paid for him. There wasn’t much out there at the time, and sometimes you just take your chances.
AlternateReality
September 9th, 2009
4:05 pm
JT, didn’t we sign KK after Lowe? So, before signing Lowe, we really only had 3 starters (1 of whom was JoJo), and maybe Glavine.
RC
September 9th, 2009
4:07 pm
What in the world did Tommy Gregg ever do for the Braves TOM B
Jeff Schultz
September 9th, 2009
4:09 pm
MatthewH – The problem is getting somebody to take Lowe’s salary. Same problem as Kawakami.
Smartguy – That’s another column.
Yip – Ballboy uni isn’t big enough for Kelly.
Chuck – Have your people call my people.
Barker – Good question. I cant find any stats on Lance Niekro at the usual websites since the Braves picked him up in the winter. I’ll keep checking.
RC
September 9th, 2009
4:10 pm
Man I forgot about ol Tommy Gregg, I’ve met him outstanding guy. But other than that is his number retired. HoF, I’m missing something
Mitchell
September 9th, 2009
4:11 pm
I know you can never have too much pitching but the Braves have too much pitching.
We need somebody who can hit some damn homeruns. Vasquez may be our ace but has also the most trade value. You have to trade Vasquez.
The rest of the guys still make up a pretty good starting staff.
Trade him.
Bravesfan54
September 9th, 2009
4:13 pm
So why is it always “trade Kawakami” when his numbers are slightly better, and his contract is cheaper?
RC
September 9th, 2009
4:14 pm
What are they putting in cheese puffs now days. Jeff Schultz is the only one with any scents. (The Man)
Reid Adair
September 9th, 2009
4:16 pm
For all of the praise heaped upon Frank Wren for this pitching staff, this very problem has been coming for a long time. It was nice while it lasted (one entire season), but it won’t be in place for 2010. Wren has indeed painted himself into a corner. It won’t be easy for him to get out.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see him try to get rid of two players from the group of Lowe, Kawakami, Vazquez and Hudson.
TomB
September 9th, 2009
4:17 pm
Nothing RC AND THAT WAS MY POINT. Cox used him like he does Norton today. Hello?
Jeff Schultz
September 9th, 2009
4:20 pm
The Anti-Big Liar – I think I’m offended.
Herschel – If you’ll work for beer, you can be my agent.
Atlmbraves44 – The problem is you have starters and there’s only room for five and four of them make too much money for the bullpen. Somebody has to go. And Bobby said KK is “darn good for the money”? I must’ve missed that.
Brian – Agreed, this is a test for Frank Wren. The plan right now starts with assessing Hudson. If he didn’t look good, the team wouldn’t activate his option and the problem is solved. The “problem” is he looks good (so far).
clau
September 9th, 2009
4:24 pm
Mark Bowman did an article, keeping all 6 of the starters, and losing Gonzalez and Soriano (type-A free agents?):
http://markbowman.mlblogs.com/archives/2009/09/teams_interested_in_braves_pit.html
RC
September 9th, 2009
4:25 pm
I think tommy played a little more than norton. Both of these guys are really the same. an big leaguer just happy to be on a time, like I would be. the word used is for a pinch hitter. If they where like Matt Stairs (phillies on their way to repeat) they would see more action. I’m sure matt doesn’t think he is being used.
Jake7
September 9th, 2009
4:27 pm
RC,
Do YOU think Jeff likes a certain smell in his PUFFS???
Sonny Clusters
September 9th, 2009
4:28 pm
We was thinking the thing this team needs most is a good hitter. Getting rid of the pitching will mean they’re gonna need some more pitching, too. We got to thinking that Chipper only wants to play about ever fourth or fifth game so we would turn Chipper into a pitcher and let somebody else come in to play third. We was also thinking that this makes more sense than letting Chipper manage. If Chipper ever was to manage and he injured his nostril he could bleed to death right there in the dugout. They is no need to lose a future Hall of Famer to nose picking.
Herschel Talker
September 9th, 2009
4:29 pm
RC – YOU FOOL. I DIDN’T SAY COX HAS AN EGO. I SAID HE IS GOOD AT MANAGING EGOS, WHICH IS NO LONGER NECESSARY. REREAD IT, YOU DOLT. I AGREE THAT FRANK HAS ALSO BEEN A PROBLEM, THOUGH HE DID A LITTLE BETTER THIS SEASON, BUT THAT DOESN’T EXONERATE COX FROM HIS STUPID DECISIONS DURING GAMES AND HIS LOYALTY TO UNTALENTED HACKS.
TOMB – YES, I REMEMBER TOMMY GREGG. ANOTHER CLOWN. GREAT CALL. THROW IN KEITH LOCKHART ALSO.
Jake7
September 9th, 2009
4:31 pm
Jeff,
You can’t depend on Huddy for the LONG haul…I would put my money on JAVY!!
Herschel Talker
September 9th, 2009
4:32 pm
SCHULTZIE – I WILL WORK FOR BEER. I LOVE YOUR WRITING. BOTH THE TONE AND THE CONTENT. DON’T LISTEN TO THE NAYSAYERS ON THE BLOG. BOTH YOU AND BRADLEY HAVE BEEN EXCELLENT SINCE TERENCE WAS JETTISONED. I DON’T THINK IT WAS A COINCIDENCE. HIS IDIOCY MUST HAVE BEEN RUBBING OFF ON EVERYONE. KEEP UP THE OUTSTANDING WORK. HAVE A NICE HIGH HOLIDAY SEASON. TEKIAH!!!
RC
September 9th, 2009
4:33 pm
Keep Hudson, Javy, JJ, Hanwson, KK has to go Lowe should go. I’ll just buy more peanuts and beer at the games. $4.50 peanuts and beer $7.50. I’ll try and do my little part.
Jake7
September 9th, 2009
4:35 pm
RC,
You are a TROOPER!!
RC
September 9th, 2009
4:36 pm
Hey HERSHEL Lockhart was a gamer
TomB
September 9th, 2009
4:41 pm
The point with Tommy Gregg and Norton has nothing to do with the players, but everything to do with BC’s decision making. The reason he uses Norton so much this year has nothing to do with the players production(this year), but everything to do with his loyalty to these players(Well, he was good last year.). Sometimes it works, but I would argue the majority of the time, it doesn’t.
61 year Braves Fan
September 9th, 2009
4:41 pm
What the hell has happened to Chipper Jones? He is the main reason we had lost 5 straight.
He hits like Norton. Fire Booby Cox and his staff, trade Norton for Corky Miller and hang on to both
Hudson & Vasquez. Trade Chipper if anyone will have him and play Infante at 3rd. Also need a
Right handed power bat.
RC
September 9th, 2009
4:42 pm
Hershel your ego is huge ,,,,,your writing in capitol letters. Must be a controlling type person with your name calling. Calm down a little HERSHEL life will go on. Take a depth breathe and count to 10.
marvin edwardsrd
September 9th, 2009
4:43 pm
release Greg Norton trade kk lowe chipper throw in cox and you dont need both infante prado same type players keep one I wouldnt mind seeing prince fielder here chipper jones is washed up it time for a new face for the braves just let him go you hangin on to the past oh dont forget cox cause he will kill a pitcher if hes tired bobby gone throw him out there lets gettem kid hes to old
RC
September 9th, 2009
4:43 pm
HESHEL take a depth breathe ,,,,,,,,,, Your ego is getting huge. while typing in capitol letters and name calling. Calm down HErshel
RC
September 9th, 2009
4:46 pm
Tom B I see your point
RC
September 9th, 2009
4:48 pm
Chipper for President
For the always injured