Braves may be forced to trade Vazquez
Javier Vazquez threw another gem Wednesday night in Houston.
Of all the things that didn’t work out as planned for the Braves this season, we’ve known a for a while now that Javier Vazquez isn’t one of them. What we don’t know is: Where do they go from here?
Or maybe the better question is: Where does Vazquez go from here?
The ripple effect of the contracts the Braves gave pitchers Derek Lowe (four years, $60 million) and Kenshin Kawakami (three years, $23 million) is going to be felt this off-season. General manager Frank Wren has some options but he’s also somewhat painted into a corner. The chances of trading either Lowe or Kawakami are minimal because of the contracts. So that’s two starters. Tommy Hanson and Jair Jurrjens are young and good and cheap. That’s two more starters. That leaves Vazquez and Tim Hudson for one spot in a five-man rotation.
See where we’re going with this?
Hudson has an expensive option at $12 million. But we also know that if he can come back next season as strong as he has shown in two recent starts, he’s one of the top pitchers on the staff. Vazquez is going into the final year of his contract at $11.5 million. If you’ve always wondered why his name keeps coming up in trade talks, that’s why. The Braves can’t keep everybody, not merely because of numbers but because of dollars. If you add Lowe, Kawakami, Hudson and Vazquez, that’s about $45.2 million for four pitchers, nearly half the team’s payroll (approximately $97 million).
These are the options:
1) Try to trade Lowe or Kawakami (Kawakami is more likely, and the Braves would have to pick up some of his payroll, which kind of defeats the purpose of the trade to begin with).
2) Move Kawakami to the bullpen. The problem is this doesn’t reduce payroll and it creates a $6.7 million pitcher middle reliever.
3) Release Hudson. And there possibly goes the ace of the staff.
4) Trade Vazquez. And there goes possibly the current ace of the staff. (Check out the numbers below.)
Not easy, is it? This problem wouldn’t exist if not for the Lowe’s and Kawakami’s contracts, but now the Braves will have to deal with it.
No poll on this. I figured everybody would vote, “Trade Kawakami,” and I just don’t know how realistic that is. So give me your thoughts.
Braves starters this season
Pitcher GS W-L ERA IP BB KO
Javier Vazquez 28 12-9 3.06 188.1 40 208
Jair Jurrjens 29 10-10 2.93 178.0 64 126
Derek Lowe 29 13-9 4.36 171.1 52 92
Kenshin Kawakami 27 7-11 4.02 145.2 55 99
Tommy Hanson 16 9-3 3.07 93.2 36 78
Kris Medlen 4 3-5 4.68 57.2 28 67
Jo-Jo Reyes 5 0-2 7.00 27 13 21
Tim Hudson 2 1-0 2.19 12.1 4 11
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334 comments Add your comment
midnite
September 9th, 2009
1:07 pm
The experiment with KK in relief blew up Sunday. I think KK was the wrong SP to go to the ‘pen. He is still getting accustomed to MLB and I feel like Bobby made a bad decision by running him out there. Give Hanson a little rest, and put Lowe in the ‘pen.
BravesFan79
September 9th, 2009
1:08 pm
Trade Lowe !! Dont put KK in the pen, its clear he doesnt like being there and would under perform. I hope we dont trade Vasquez… i look forward to watching him pitch every week.
Brian
September 9th, 2009
1:10 pm
I’ve said all along that I think the Braves’ best option is to trade Vazquez while his value is as high as it’s ever going to be. It’s the only option available that could result in the Braves getting an impact bat.
mudcat
September 9th, 2009
1:10 pm
I agree with rtrafford, there will always be a market for pitchers who can give you quality starts and right now Atlanta has 6 starters in that category. It all depends on Wren to use that asset to strengthen an area where we are weakest, a power-hitting run producer. Our offense is offensive! Use our strength to improve on our weakness and we get to the playoffs, finally.
Rico Suave
September 9th, 2009
1:10 pm
Trade Vazquez for Crawford….
Thanks for another retarded post
mexican-brave
September 9th, 2009
1:15 pm
i’m 24, of course i’m interested…are u?? seriously, i’m glad to see girls taking part of braves discussions…i like that
Suave shampoo
September 9th, 2009
1:15 pm
Who is Crawford? Isn’t he that guy the Hawks got from Golden State?
Wolf
September 9th, 2009
1:17 pm
GIVE AWAY Lowe to anybody who will take him, maybe the Yankees, who never worry about money. Find some team that will take Lowe, doesn’t matter what, if anything, the Braves get back. His contract was a mistake, a desperate move last winter after other attempts to get pitching failed. NO other team would give him a four-year deal. Lowe has only pitched seven innings twice in three months and has been used as batting practice a number of times by opponents. If the Braves “eat” $5 million a year of his contract to get rid of him, they still save $10 million per year.
Sonny Clumps
September 9th, 2009
1:17 pm
Bravesfan79, we was talking at the family picknic and I says, why don’t we put Kawakami in the bullpen, he can’t perform any worse there than he does now. Kawakami was over paid and we was expecting that from him, and he belongs nowhere else than in the pen. We was making a BIG mistake when we was signing Lowe to the contract, too. Lowe was never an ace, but we was reluctant to let him go. When we was yunger we had a player like Kawakami who was new to the league and wasn’t performing all that well, but we decided to use him as a reliever and he was then striking out the best hitters because we wasn’t letting him get worn out.
Father of 5
September 9th, 2009
1:17 pm
The homers continue to praise Wren for his “masterful” work at bringing in a pitching staff — but this article highlights they ways that his moves (1) were not nearly enough to get us to the playoffs this year, and (2) have crippled the team for years to come — all in a desperation move to become relevant this year.
Nobody, not even the Mets, offered Lowe anything close to $60M for 4 years – but Wren had no choice for PR reasons after he forced out Smoltz (an Atlanta icon – who happens to still be an above average NL pitcher). Jeff is right: Lowe and KK are here to stay. Oh, and spending all that $ still left us with no power or speed, although there is plenty of speed in Gwinnett, if we get G.A. (another poor Wren decision) out of the way. I’d take Brandon Jones or Brian Barton any day — and Heyward will be ready in May, after the arbitration deadline passes. I guarantee they will dump Hudson (”loyalty” and “class” are not in the vocabulary of the Braves Wren-led front office) and, if not for Wren’s reputation, they could write off 2010 and work toward 2011. At least Atlanta fans can see good baseball played at G-Tech and a few miles north up 85.
The Buzzard
September 9th, 2009
1:18 pm
I have Forte on my FF team also. OH, trade Hudson for a power hitting right fielder. Sign LaRoche and release Norton, PLEASE.
kirkinga
September 9th, 2009
1:19 pm
Why trade just one?
If the Braves can work out a good deal with Hudson, then keep him. If not, then pick up his option and trade him because you already know he’s going to cost more than you want to pay. If you can eat half- of Lowe’s and/or Kawakami’s contracts and they return at least one solid piece you need, then do that.
But I believe the Braves will be best served eating some of one of those contracts and either Hudson or Vasquez. If Kawakami, then the good news is it’s for a shorter period but less money. If it’s Lowe, then the good news is that it’s a greater amount (even eating some), but for a longer period.
If you trade two, then you must get a 5th starter which is easier than getting a 1-3. If you trade two, then you should be able to fill at least two holes, if not more, and maybe get a prospect or two. You also get more payroll to make sure the pen remains stocked because we know that Bobby will overuse people if you don’t give him at least 6 good relievers. It’s going to be an interesting, and probably, surprising, offseason.
Sonny Clumps
September 9th, 2009
1:19 pm
Norton can perform hitting better if he takes lessons from us Clumps.
Braves Grrrl
September 9th, 2009
1:19 pm
No thanks. I’m not really 14…..or a grrrl. My real name is Eddie Haas and I sell used farm equipment.
count_schemula
September 9th, 2009
1:21 pm
Trade Lowe. Eat contract. Talent is talent. Money is money. Don’t get it twisted.
Carrollton Brave Fan
September 9th, 2009
1:22 pm
Kawakami was a mistake for the Braves..One of few that Wren has made.
If the Braves owners would only spend more money on salaries. Think of where the Braves would be today if they had been able to keep Teixeira last year and also have Vazquez and Lowe. All those RBI’s would have made all the difference.
Lifetime Braves Fan
September 9th, 2009
1:22 pm
I have an idea ……… Lets make the right changes so we are not looking foward to the next season before playoffs next year. BRILLIANT
bruce
September 9th, 2009
1:22 pm
trade KK, he has plenty of quality starts against tough opponents, has shown his mettle… could be some team’s 3rd starter, maybe second, and his salary is not too high for that role.
Tim-mah!
September 9th, 2009
1:23 pm
Trade “The Dragonslayer”, Anderson, Church, Norton {sorry, he evokes memories of Jackie Gleason} et. al, get some serious power bat or let the kids play, DO NOT unload Hudson or Vasquez…or Escobar…OR…how about a payroll infusion?
bulldog bubba
September 9th, 2009
1:23 pm
The Braves say they want to win.If we want a chance you have to dump Kawakami and keep Vazquez.I know every interview Bobby sasys we are in the game with KK but it is not true.Most nights he can’t give you more than 4-5 good innings and then his arm gives out and that dreaded 6th inning comes and its sayanora to any lead we might have.Dump him and his salary and bring up some more players from AAA to fill the roster.You then will have players who want to do well at a minimum price!
Brian
September 9th, 2009
1:24 pm
Nah, the Braves couldn’t get Crawford for Vazquez, nor would the Rays trade for Vazquez, given their payroll situation. I could see the Braves getting someone like Ryan Ludwick from the Cardinals, and if he keeps on pitching well, maybe a prospect too. You have to look at teams that are looking for pitching, and have payroll flexibility to take on a 10+ million dollar salary next year. The Dodgers could be interested, but what do they have to offer us that they’d be willing to part with? James Loney isn’t a good fit for us. The Mets will want pitching, but they hardly have any pieces to move. AL teams will be hesitant to go after Vazquez.
Sonny Clumps
September 9th, 2009
1:24 pm
We known since the beginning that Wren was making a big mistake from Kawakami, and now we’s given him chances we should now turn him over to a new team and let him lose for them.
Tyler Bates
September 9th, 2009
1:25 pm
The Braves have clearly been great on the pitching end this year. The rotation has far exceeded my expectations. The main force behind all this is none other than Javier Vazquez. This was Frank Wren’s biggest offseason addition. Bar NONE! I am a huge fan of Tim Hudson, he’s a solid pitcher. But, Atlanta was clearly doing fine without him, thanks to Javy Vazquez. Derek Lowe has been extremely disappointing… hate to say. They need to keep Javier Vazquez on this team, he’s the reason the Braves have stuck around this year in the first place!
Sonny Clumps
September 9th, 2009
1:25 pm
This reminds me of a time that we has Wainwright, of course we had to let him go.
Peter
September 9th, 2009
1:26 pm
Come on folks we are in a free fall…..starting with the manager who burns out the Pen each year !
dap01
September 9th, 2009
1:26 pm
Javy has been great.
Jim
September 9th, 2009
1:26 pm
Great rid of Wren, he is the one that way over paid for Lowe and Kawakami and put the Braves in this position.
Barker
September 9th, 2009
1:28 pm
Thx TABL. I’m probably the only person this side of Phil who cares, but found Lance’s GCL 09 stats: 1-3, 5.61, 14g, 33.2 ip
Bama Aaron
September 9th, 2009
1:30 pm
Personally I’d do everything in my power to relieve the Braves of Derek Lowe. Kawakami has pitched much better over the long haul than him despite what the records say. Under no circumstances do I let Vazquez go. He’s the most consistent pitcher they’ve had all year as well as the most reliable.
Lank
September 9th, 2009
1:31 pm
Trading Vazquez may be the best option if we can get a young power bat or speed. KK will be better next season, he should be used to the strike zone and living in Atlanta, plus he has value in paving the path for future Japanese players and fans to the Braves. You can’t get anything in return for Lowe. If you can’t trade Vazquez for a good, young, cheap player, then don’t resign Hudson and save the $12 mil. Either option will sting a little, but the braves need to spend somewhere to get some hitting. Church and Anderson will be gone. The Braves could resign LaRoche or trade Vazquez for a slugging 1B (Pujols? … haha, I got some jokes). If Heyward is ready, then the Braves will have McClouth, Diaz, Schafer, and Heyward in the outfield. This may be where they need the upgrade.
BRAVESfan
September 9th, 2009
1:32 pm
Greg Norton is not my friend
Jim
September 9th, 2009
1:32 pm
Enter your comments here
pinkygonzales
September 9th, 2009
1:33 pm
You have to trade vazquez for offense. We need a corner outfielder, preferably right-handed, in the middle of our line-up. The problem with releasing Hudson is that we would get nothing in return. KK’s been fine. He’s our fifth starter. And I love what Javy Vasquez has done for us this year, but show where he’s been able to put together back to back great seasons.
Year Team W L ERA
2002 Mon 10 13 3.91
2003 Mon 13 12 3.24
2004 NYY 14 10 4.91
2005 Ari 11 15 4.42
2006 CWS 11 12 4.84
2007 CWS 15 8 3.74
2008 CWS 12 16 4.67
2009 Atl 12 9 3.06
Trade him now. His value will never be higher. We traded prospects for him last year, and we can maybe turn him into a major league player. This, to me, is a no-brainer.
Sonny Clumps
September 9th, 2009
1:33 pm
If we wants a shot of the playoffs, we has to let Kawakami go. Kawakami and Lowe are the weak links and if we want a shot we gots to put them in the pen or trade them and we can send Reyes too. We had a hitter like Norton, he couldn’t hit the bat on the ball his name was Jon “Stinkball” Earl, because when he would come up we was going to know he would strike out and stink up the game.
JW
September 9th, 2009
1:34 pm
Kawakami should have been traded to a contender near the trade deadline. Either he or Lowe should be traded in the off season, even for a couple of minor leaguers.
Sonny Clumps
September 9th, 2009
1:35 pm
The Braves could get a better pitcher from the little leagues for cheaper than they get for Kawakami.
Dr. R.
September 9th, 2009
1:36 pm
Vazquez is NOT a consistent winner. He’s one of those guys who too often pitches just well enough to lose. When they needed him to step up over the last few weeks, he’s been at his worst. And that has been the pattern throughout his career: Nice ERA, lots of Ks but no big winner. I think something’s missing with him. Plus he’s 33 and at the height of his trade value; the Braves could get back an everyday player that could help. I say deal him.
Jake7
September 9th, 2009
1:36 pm
Javy has the BEST stuff of ANY Braves pitcher. You are TALKING about a pitcher not a thrower!! We are a DISFUNCTIONAL team with NO leaders! Now, that we don’t have Ted Turner’s money to throw around….our FRONT office doesn’t look TOO SMART!!! They can’t AFFORD to make bad decisions…..and this would be ONE!!
Herschel Talker
September 9th, 2009
1:37 pm
FIRE BOOBY COX!
FIRE MARK RICHT!
HIRE JEFF SCHULTZ!
AlternateReality
September 9th, 2009
1:37 pm
While Lowe and KK haven’t been as good as you’d hope given their salaries, I wonder where we would be without them. Lowe had a decent first half but seems to have run out of gas, and KK has generally pitched up to the level of his opponenet – in fact, he pitches best when he goes up against the other teams’ aces.
If you think that the bullpen is burned out now, what do you think it would look like without all of the innings we have gotten from those 2 guys. Remember, the replacements for them would likely have been Medlen and Hanson. Medlen has been exposed a little lately. While he’s got potential, he’s not quite there yet. Hanson has been a great story this year, but I’m not sure how well he would have (or will) held up over the full year in the bigs, with the increased workload.
If I could sing like Paul McCartney and get funky like Etta James
September 9th, 2009
1:37 pm
I would play go fish with Lowe and Varquez. I would use the bait that gets the biggest fish. Wren is dealing with strength.
Richard Hamilton
September 9th, 2009
1:41 pm
I really like the idea of moving kawakami to the bullpen. Someone might get hurt and then your stuck with jo jo reyes. You also have the option of trading Hudson, Lowe, or Vasquez at the deadline next year for some quality prospects.
Why would you get rid of a solid arm???
I certainly wouldn’t trade Vasquez, at least not until the trade deadline, and I wouldn’t give Kawakami away.
Braves are stupid if they get rid of anyone. I would rather stick with a top notch pitching staff, and have backup, rather than dump salary to add a bat worth 6 million. That isn’t going to buy a whole lot in baseball.
Buzzed
September 9th, 2009
1:41 pm
I don’t care which one you trade, but get someone who can consistantly hit 30 dingers a year in return!!!!
Greg Norton
September 9th, 2009
1:43 pm
TRADE GREG NORTON!!!
Fire Frank Wren
September 9th, 2009
1:43 pm
Trading Vazquez is the wrong move. I’d trade Hudson or Lowe. KK won’t get you anything in return.
If teams won’t give the Braves what they want, threaten to tell Greg Norton that they really want him to play there next year. How does he still have a locker at Turner Field?
Steve Brown
September 9th, 2009
1:43 pm
Trade Chipper Jones today if anyone will take him! Jeff F has outhit him in the second half. Trade one of the 6 pitchers, the one you get the best deal on. Let the market dictate. All of you saving spots for unproven minor leaguers are smoking weed.
Fire Frank Wren
September 9th, 2009
1:44 pm
And I’d lock up Hanson and JJ into a McCann-like contract ASAP. 5 years at 7 mil a year.
Tim-mah!
September 9th, 2009
1:45 pm
Power Pitchers! Hudson, Vasquez, Hanson, JJ and…who else do we have? Matt Ryan?
Suave shampoo
September 9th, 2009
1:45 pm
Just how does it benefit the Braves to have Japanese fans, Lank? Who gives a rat’s whisker?
atlbravesfan44
September 9th, 2009
1:46 pm
You make it sound as if the Braves are backed into a corner here. A surplus of pitching is a good thing to have and it seems to me that Kawakami would be quite tradeable. As Cox would say, Kawakami has actually been pretty darn good for the money. More effective than most 5th starters in the league and some of the 4th starters.