Hawks: Are they still only fourth best in NBA’s East?
Maybe you've heard: These two guys are now teammates in Cleveland.
In engineering one of the busiest and most successful summers in Hawks’ history, general manager Rick Sund strengthened the bench (Jamal Crawford and Joe Smith), drafted a talented guard (Jeff Teague) and retained the team’s top three free agents (Mike Bibby, Marvin Williams and Zaza Pachulia).
Only one problem: Atlanta might still be only the fourth best team in the Eastern Conference.
Loading ...This week’s signing of Smith concluded the Hawks’ significant moves this off-season. Here’s my question for you: What should the expectation be?
Everybody ahead of them in the East (Cleveland, Boston, Orlando) also got better. So did some teams behind them, though probably not enough to crack the top four. Should we expect coach Mike Woodson, who will be entering the final year of his contract, to win more than one playoff series next season?
Here’s a quick recap of the top four teams in the East, with last year’s record and playoff results in parenthesis).
♦ CLEVELAND (66-16, lost to Orlando in conference finals): After being stunned by the Magic, they’ve surrounded LeBron James with significant help: Shaquille O’Neal, whose minutes presumably will be limited during the regular season so he’s stronger for the playoffs; forward Jamario Moon (from Miami) and forward Leon Powe (from Boston). They also re-signed Anderson Varajao.
♦ BOSTON (62-20, lost to Orlando in conference semis): The good news for Hawks fans is the Celtics signed Shelden Williams. But they’ve added Rasheed Wallace and re-signed Glen “Big Baby” Davis to a team that still might have been the NBA’s best last season, if not for the late-season knee injury to Kevin Garnett.
♦ ORLANDO (59-23, lost to Los Angeles in NBA finals): Atlanta’s Dwight Howard and the Magic were a blast to watch in the playoffs, particularly against the overhyped Cavaliers. Now they’ve added power forward Brandon Bass from Dallas, matched Dallas’s offer sheet to keep center Marcin Gortat and then there’s the big move – adding guard Vince Carter to play alongside Jameer Nelson. Carter hasn’t been a part of a lot of team success in his career so that will be interesting to watch. But if it works, it’ll be huge. Orlando also added a solid power forward off the bench, Ryan Anderson from New Jersey.
♦ ATLANTA (47-35): In addition to adding Crawford, Smith and Teague, and keeping Bibby, Williams and Pachulia, the Hawks traded away Speedy Claxton and Acie Law. There might be some addition by subtraction there.
So do you see the Hawks cracking the top three? There’s also a poll to the left.
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107 comments Add your comment
JSS
August 26th, 2009
11:12 am
Is there really a question here? Leave the Hawk Talk to Sekou and company… The proper reference to all of this is what were the Magic seeded going into last year’s playoffs? Answer 3rd. Boston’s run as as a number one seed in the East was rarity since the Pistons failed miserably as a one seed for a number of years… Just be ready to come and play winning hoops in May, Do solid work in regular season and learn how to win on the road… Time to do more sight seeing… Adieu!!!
rms
August 26th, 2009
11:14 am
Do I see the Hawks cracking the top three???? After hell thaws out, then maybe!!!
Skeet~O
August 26th, 2009
11:15 am
I think adding Crawford and Teague made them closer to #3, but still a solid #4. The C’s and Magic both stood pat in my mind – Vinsanity isn’t as good as Hedu but Bass and Nelson being healthy helps, while Sheed shores up the PF spot but he and KG are both getting old.
dap01
August 26th, 2009
11:18 am
Sund improved the Hawks. The Hawks can and will improve on last years total wins.
With the improved depth, we should be healthier in the playoffs. If we are healthier, and if our young guys continue to improve, the Hawks can play with ANYONE. And in a playoff series, they may shock even the mighty Cavs who certainly added a question mark for chemistry in adding Shaq. Orlando made a risky chemistry move in getting Carter. Boston added Rasheed (Yikes!).
DP
August 26th, 2009
11:20 am
If Teague is good enough to push Bibby to the bench by midseason the Hawks can move closer to the top 3 in the East. The first unit needs a point guard who can push the ball for easy fast break baskets (increasing Josh Smith’s effectiveness in particular) and break down the defense in the half court so the half court offense doesn’t become throw the ball to Joe Johnson and watch him pound it into the floor. When Bibby is in the game he effectively plays 2 guard and Johnson plays point. Plus Bibby isn’t quick enough to stay in front of opposing point guards on defense.
If Teague can become good enough to start then Bibby and Crawford can provide good offensive punch for the second unit.
If Teague is a flop or not ready to contribute much by the second half of this season (or Woodson buries him on the bench and doesn’t give him a chance) I don’t see the Hawks challenging the top 3 in the East.
JO
August 26th, 2009
11:22 am
No….but if they can get a little closer to the top three who know what can happen in the 2nd round of the playoffs. One thing for sure, Josh needs to start playing consistently, and the coach cant crush J Johnson with so many minutes as he did last season.
MannyT
August 26th, 2009
11:31 am
Another way to look at the question if you use last season’s records–where do the Hawks get a 13 game improvement (to match Orlando’s record?)
The improvement of this team is mostly based on the growth of the younger players. For all the talk of change, the personnel differences are Teague, Crawford, & Joe Smith for Law, Claxton, & a bench guy. Sure the personnel is better, but Woodson has to manage the minutes and game plan to make the difference show up in the record. We expect the sub 30 year old players to get better, but the older guys will probably get worse.
There is room to improve against Boston, Cleveland, & Orlando. However, there is more room to fall off against the 11 teams behind the Hawks. Holding the 4th seed would be a very good accomplishment.
C. Tampa Ironworse
August 26th, 2009
11:32 am
The big problem with the Hawks is simple. No BIG name guy…no BIG name player. Just like in
Football where you need a big three(QB, RB and some type of pass catcher), in the NBA…you need a SUPERstar, 2 stars and role players. The Hawks a a bunch of role players and stars like Joe Johnson…but that’s it. They maybe can stay #4…but they’re not seriously in the discussion until they get a BIG time player.
PS: Maybe if they all had bowties like me…they’d be awesome!!!
SWATlantadolfan
August 26th, 2009
11:35 am
Its possibly,but unlikely.I dont see us being a 3 seed as being the important question.We are still young,so I expect us to still lose some games we arent supposed to,but we will also win some we shouldnt.Young teams lack consistancy.Boston,Cleveland,and Orlando will be better than us in the regular season for that reason.The real question is can we upset one of those teams in the playoffs.To answer that question I’ll go Obama on ya’ll and say “Yes we can!”
Doug
August 26th, 2009
11:39 am
True to a degree but each with a caveat…and Orlando is arguably not as good as last year. Boston: Sheed helps but there is ALOT of mileage on all their key players as well as a rift between Rivers and Rondo. Will any/all of their stars break down over 82 games?
Cleveland: Shaq still a presence but will his presence diminish the brilliance of Lebron as it did Nash…by clogging the lane for his forays? Will his ball screen defense and FT woes prove fatal in the postseason??
Orlando: Does Vince Carter bring the same savy on using ball screens as Turkoglu? No. Does he create the same mismatches? No. Will Nelson return as a good fit with Carter now in tow??? Very questionable.
Michael
August 26th, 2009
11:43 am
I think Orlando is going to miss Turkoglu more than they realize, and Vince is going to wind up being a detriment to their club. Carter has always been a ball hog, and he’s not going to like that fact that Orlando is Howard’s team. So I think the Hawks will pass them.
Boston continues to do nothing but age, so I think they’ll slide back some as well, but probably not enough for the Hawks to catch and pass them in the regular season standings. But I think the Hawks can take them in the second round of the playoffs.
I also don’t think the addition of Shaq will have much positive impact on Cleveland (dude is old), but he’s not going to drag them down either. I figure they’ll wind up in roughly the same place they were last year, and wax Atlanta in the playoffs again this year, albeit in the Conference Finals this time.
Astro Joe
August 26th, 2009
11:44 am
Manny, agreed.
Stevengilley15
August 26th, 2009
11:52 am
Vince Carter>> Hedo Turkgolu in terms of NBA talent but Hedo can fit in many systems. Hawks improved to win 50 games but not advance in the playoffs past 2nd round. Maybe win 2 games tho.
Terrell
August 26th, 2009
12:00 pm
C. Tampa Ironworse,
If what you’re saying is true, which it’s not, the the Pistons wouldn’t had beaten the L.A. Lakers who had Shaq, Kobe, Karl Malone and Gary Payton. The Pistons were not superstars then.
Now at football, the Ravens and the Bucs won Superbowls because of their defense. Their QBs were average at best when they won the Super Bowl.
Dan
August 26th, 2009
12:06 pm
Nice, Hawk4life!
I think expectations should be 4th seed, again. I think Boston, however, is due to drop. Their core is getting older and ijuries are going to hit them sooner rather than later. Plus, Sheed is a shadow of his former self.
Boston is either falling this year, or next. Their run is almost done.
Ernest
August 26th, 2009
12:09 pm
I don’t see the Hawks cracking the top three during the 09-10 season however we will see improvement. Based on what happens next offseason, the Hawks should compete for the conference crown at a minimum during the 10-11 season. Locking up most of our core (we also need JJ to sign) allows greater chemistry to be developed over the year. That can have a greater impact than having a superstar(s) on the team (see reference to Detroit and the Lakers earlier in this blog).
Mac
August 26th, 2009
12:11 pm
The Hawks improved their bench and will get some small amount of continued growth from the Smiths and Horford. So, they will hopefully win 50 games and win a couple of games in a second round series. But, to make a big jump to the elite, they will have to somehow add a superstar, and/or make a big upgrade at head coach. Woody’s not awful, but he’s not Phil Jackson, or Red Auerbach either.
BPJ
August 26th, 2009
12:13 pm
There’s a reason they play the games – we don’t know who will win. The Hawks have a good shot at winning a series over any of those teams, the two key variables being injuries and teamwork. If the Hawks enter the playoffs with all hands healthy (which was not the case this year), and they play consistent team defense, they will be superb. The additions to the bench make both of those outcomes more likely because: (a)reducing the starters’ minutes over the course of the long season makes injuries less likely; and (b)playing consistent team defense is tiring, thus easier to do if you get to rest a bit more often (and the bench itself has capable defenders).
Dan
August 26th, 2009
12:21 pm
My prediction is that the Hawks will move up to no. 3 because one of the top three teams in the East will have a significant injury to one of their old guys. The Hawks– while they did suffer through some injuries last year–are young and less likely to have the same sort of situation.
But it’s doubtful the Hawks will move much further in the playoffs, because the offense will still be mostly “iso-Joe” and Joe will be, once again, worn out by the time the playoffs arrive. Sigh.
Jt
August 26th, 2009
12:25 pm
I think they can be better than the Celtics. Injuries increase with age and the Celtics are getting older. The Hawks have shown that when they do what is necessary to run (like grabbing defensive rebounds) they can run teams like Boston right out of the gym. Despite the poor showing in the playoffs against Cleveland (the Hawks were hurting at the time), they competed pretty well against the Cavs in the regular season. I’m not sure that Shaq makes them that much better. His skills are eroding and he is definitely a liability late in games. So, I think they can get into the 3rd position and then see what happens.
bigeasy830
August 26th, 2009
12:30 pm
The only way we will crack the top 3 is if Marvin and Al really mature over the off season and becom BEAST for the Hawks, Both guys need to average at least 15-20 per game and Al need to snatch 12 rebounds and Marvin would need to average 7 rebounds per game as well as Joe, Bibby and J-Smooth still doing their thing. But. i dobt if that happens so lets hope for 50 plus wins and another 4 seed. Joe Smith is simply not the answer.
BPJ
August 26th, 2009
12:32 pm
I have a question for you guys, most of whom clearly know the NBA better than I do: who are the teams with the better “2nd fives” around the league?
The Hawks starting 5, I submit, are among the best in the league. No “superstars”, but strong at each position. If they play well together as a team, they’re formidable. Last year the bench was Pachulia, Evans, & and Murray……and then look out. This season it’ll be Pachulia, Evans, Crawford, Teague, and Joe Smith. Granted we don’t know that much about Teague yet, that looks like a pretty good group. Whose 2nd five are better? (I’m sure there are some, I just don’t know the rosters well enough).
Barry
August 26th, 2009
12:36 pm
Hey Y’all:
I do naot see the Hawks looking for a big man to stand up against Shack,Howard, and the Celtics center. I hope all the other four player we have are greater than thos teams four players because I do not see us winning at the center spot. Hopefully, we will be doing things to offset the other teams big centers. I can only think great team defense. If that is what it is, I hope it works. If not, I hope some of the young bigs in camp become stars this year. That would be great!!
REAL GREAT!!!
LETS GO HAWKS!!!
SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is a SECRET from a HAWK FAN. TELL EVERYBODY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
………………………”SHOCK THE WORLD!!!”…………………..
C. Tampa Ironworse
August 26th, 2009
12:42 pm
Terrell,
Yes…please pick out the “exception” to the rule with the Pistons. Malone/Payton were shells of what they once were at that time as well. And I don’t think people look to the Ravens/Trent Dilfer as the way to build a champion. So nice try…but your points are just kind of silly and not valid.
Gwinnett Fred
August 26th, 2009
12:46 pm
You’re making it much more difficult of a question than it really is.
There is only ONE TEAM in the way of cracking the top 3, not three. So to answer the question “Can they crack the top 3?” can be reduced to “Can they pass Orlando?” since Cleveland & Boston only come into play if you are asking can they crack the top 2?
Now that I’ve simplified the question that media types always like to try to over-hype – the answer is probably no – we haven’t made up 12 games on Orlando.
This does not mean we are not a more dangerous team once the playoffs come around, which is aldo the main question to ask!
Notty Dred
August 26th, 2009
12:48 pm
The Hawks can finish anywhere from 7th to 3rd. We have a solid team, but we still lack a true big man. The Hawks are going to have to run a little more to off set the front court size disadvantage they’ll face against teams with legit bigs. I will be following the Hawks this season at http://www.fanhuddle.com. I’ll keep it real and give you all the inside info with the Hawks (I got a lil pull). Also check me out Wednesday nights from 8p -10p and Saturdays from 12p -2p on “The Rant” at http://www.vvcradio.com. Vince Thomas from SLAM magazine and Aron Phillips from DIME magazine will be guests so we’ll talk a lot of NBA amongst other things. Also Check out the video blog I participate in with the Lovely Lady Simone at http://www.2livestews.com. Peace and blessings.
Mike T
August 26th, 2009
1:03 pm
Why does everyone think Hedo is better then Vince? Please enlighten me. Vince brings so much more to the Magic then Hedo does.
STRETCH
August 26th, 2009
1:06 pm
BPJ,
I love that 1st unit with the exception of Horford playing at the 5, thats still going to be a downfall. The second unit is probably one of the top 5 units in the NBA though.
Anthony
August 26th, 2009
1:06 pm
#4 I suppose, but they will play Washington or Toronto, in the 1st round which is probably gonna be a game 6 or 7, cause Arenas is healthy in Washington, Toronto made some decent additions this offseason, but the Hawks will win the series though
truth-serum
August 26th, 2009
1:11 pm
Hey, this has to be one of your better articles. Its accurate,(for a change!) Just smiling. I agree and think your prognosis is true, Schultz.
As, ive said all year long. The Hawks need a center to get to the next level. You cant do it with four power forwards and ZaZa. Wont happen.
Thanks for accentuating that point.
Thanks for the good writing.
Jeff Schultz
August 26th, 2009
1:13 pm
Michael – I’ve always liked Turkoglu but it didn’t seem like Orlando cared about him leaving – thus, the trade.
JT – good point about the Celtics and age but I don’t see the Celtics dropping lower than third – as long as Garnett is healthy.
Bigeasy830 – Horford will continue to get better but Marvin staying healthy and becoming a consistent productive player is the kind of thing that would make a HUGE difference in the bottom line.
STRETCH
August 26th, 2009
1:18 pm
truth-serum, i do believe you said what most writers seem to be afraid to write! This team wont even smell the Eastern conference finals cause the they are still trying to paint a two-story house without a ladder.
Gotta have a legit big man. Zaza would be a great 2nd center but thats all. Horford will be in foul trouble all season…bet on it.
Hoops
August 26th, 2009
1:20 pm
There are a lot of uncontrolable things can happen over a 82 game schedule. That’s why depth is very important. The Hawks have much better depth than a year ago in the key positions in case of injuries.
The question should be, “can the Hawks overcome the Magic to get into the top 3 in the East?” I can see the Hawks finishing ahead of the Magic if they can stay healthy. I know that the Magic added Carter and Bass, but losing 3 playoff starters is going to be a major adjustment for them. They may have chemistry problems and remember that Lewis will miss the first 10 games. The Hawks need a good start. I know the Hawks early schedule is tough, but I can see this team beating Boston in the second round to get to the conference finals.
Woodson needs to use all 10 of his rotation players during the regular season and keep those guys fresh. Play #11-14 off the bench whenever we can. Fresh legs will get those Celtics in the end!
truth-serum
August 26th, 2009
1:24 pm
STRETCH
August 26th, 2009
1:18 pm
truth-serum
August 26th, 2009
1:27 pm
I must agree that the writers here seem to lack the backbone to talk about the 600 pound gorilla in the room. I like that analogy about the painting…I think ill lift that one. It would be nice to have a blog sight where we can deal with whats real.
Good post!
Andy
August 26th, 2009
1:33 pm
BPJ – I think Cleveland can boast a better second unit with guys like Jamario Moon, Anthony Carter etc…Boston has Marquis Daniels, Rasheed Wallace, Eddie House, Glen Davis in their second 5…much better…
For all of you who think Boston, Orlando or Cleveland are coming down to earth, you’re mistaken…Cleveland may be the strongest team we’ve seen in the East in a long long time. Boston improved and Orlando didn’t fall back at all (despite Hedu loss and Vince Carter gain)
Jeff Schultz
August 26th, 2009
1:36 pm
Truth – Thanks for their rare compliment.
Stretch – The center thing has been addressed in blogs and columns countless times. Everybody knows this team gets significantly better with a legit guy in the middle and Horford moving to PF. But (familiar refrain) the bottom line is that there are just not that many good centers in the league, and the ones who are around certainly aren’t available in trade.
Ken Strickland
August 26th, 2009
1:41 pm
MANNYT-very well put, and I co-sign on that. Of the 3 top Eastern teams, Boston is the only one that’s upgraded their roster without affecting their starting lineup. Like Jeff Shultz so astutely said, VCarter hasn’t significantly improved a roster he’s been a part of in his entire career, and I don’t think that will change. Three starters from last yrs NBA finals team are no longer on the roster and RLewis won’t be available to start the season.
PG JNelson actually hurt the team when he returned last yr. He now has to adjust to an entire starting lineup, except for DHoward. They’re going to have some serious adjustment and chemistry issues to start the season, and even when RLewis returns. I think Orlando just made the same mistake the Nuggers made when they thought AIverson would be an improvement. The Hawks can overtake them, especially if we get off to our usual strong start.
Shaq hasn’t improved anybody’s team since he helped Miami win the title. What can he do to improve a team that won 66 gms? He certainly can’t pull the opposing center away from the basket with his outside shooting like Ilgaukas. That will make it more difficult for Cleveland to attack the basket, like they’re known for doing. His DEF is slightly worse than Ilgaukas’. I can see adding him to their bench, but why run the risk of creating chemistry problems by adding him to the starting lineop that led the NBA is wins, especially when at his best he might provide only marginal improvement?
Dr. Warren
August 26th, 2009
1:41 pm
Let’s know our history. These are the Roundfield-John Drew-Tree Rollins, Dominique-Spud-Doc Rivers, Steve Smith-Mookie-Mutombo Hawks ALL OVER AGAIN. NONE of those teams reached the Eastern Conference Finals, and neither will this team. Whenever Atlanta finally gets good, it is just that: good. Not great, not dominant. In all this time, we’ve had the luck to land only one bonafide superstar, Dominique, and we came within a basket of making the ECF’s against Boston in ‘88, and that was it–the closest we’ll come, most likely, until fortune shines upon us in the lottery with a true prodigy–a future Hall of Famer–and we can add a complementary top 10 NBA player through free agency.
Tyger
August 26th, 2009
1:43 pm
Jamal Crawford’s impact is the only mystery here.
Will he be the unadulterated scorer the Hawks need?
Will he supplant Bibby, as Flip did, when the games on the line?
We he flourish aside/behind Big Pass Joe?
Will he form a dynamic duo w/Marvin on the Second Team?
Nite Owl
August 26th, 2009
1:52 pm
It’s nice to have a good bench, but the only realistic way we crack the top three is for our starters to step it up.
Horford and Josh have to show they are elite players, especially on the glass and on defense. Rodman and Barkley never used size as an excuse.
Marvin and Joe need to be consistent scorers (no slumps, Joe!), like Rip Hamilton/Tayshaun, or Pierce/Allen, or Rashard/Turkoglu (now Carter).
The top five faces aren’t changing, so we live and die by these guys being not only reliable, but consistently excellent, in scoring and rebounding.
That’s what it takes; now we’ll see if they’re interested in bringing it every game, with the intensity of a KG.
supa
August 26th, 2009
2:00 pm
I really like what the Hawks have done. They are a deeper team and have more offensive weapons. They also should have more defensive production by being fresher and playing at the right positions. I think Orlando is overrated and Vince Carter will hurt more than help. Probably 3rd best in the East but closing on Boston and Cleveland. I think they’re also younger and more athletic than those two teams. Anything can happen in the playoffs.
JMar
August 26th, 2009
2:03 pm
Let’s see. Three teams already miles ahead of the Hawks going into the offseason. One adds Shaq, one adds Vince, one adds Sheed. The Hawks keep the same team. Not only did the top 3 stay the top 3, they increased their advantage over the Hawks exponentially. Not to mention that none of those teams (or any team in the NBA except for the Hawks, I’d guess) have room for Rio on their bench.
truth-serum
August 26th, 2009
2:07 pm
Schultz, Im with Stretch on this one. We could have went after lopez of new jersey who destroyed us and horford head to head, Hes a legit 7 footer, he can score in the low post, hes got good numbers defensively and hes tenacious. We could have trade up and got the UCONN center and worked to bring him into the rotation and start him next year. There are options, we did not look very hard.
Some one else may have a better move than im offering. My point is that we did nothing when anything would have be an improvement. We had flip and did not necessarily need crawford. We need then and still need a center. Good GM’s find whats needed. San Antionio was smart enough to resigh mutombo last year before he got injured down the stretch. Miami went after Jermaine Oneal, we did …..nothing. Our weakness at the 5 spots is such that we need to be as aggressive in finding a center as we are in pursing Crawford.
That no center mentality is a very weak copout and wont win games!
Doug
August 26th, 2009
2:11 pm
JMAR: Hawks stay the same???? They added a 20 ppg scorer who is exponentially better than Flip….drafted a “potential” stud in Teague who gives them a legit speed guy with 2nd unit…added a solid vet PF in Joe Smith instead of Solo Jones…and they stayed the same???
truth-serum
August 26th, 2009
2:11 pm
Nite Owl
August 26th, 2009
1:52 pm
Barkley never won anything but a DUI and Rodman was a very good powerforward who couldnt score but could rebound well. Kind of reminds me of Horford except Rodman was better. The point is we have enough power forwards. Lets get a center.
truth-serum
August 26th, 2009
2:14 pm
Smith is an improvement over Solo (can you say cba).Crawfords not much if any improvement over flip. You dont win games on potential but on performance. My assessment says the hawks are marginally better.
Terrell
August 26th, 2009
2:15 pm
C. Tampa Ironworse,
No, my points are very valid. Your statement makes it seem like that these superstars come from out of nowhere. When the Bulls began their domination, Jordan was the only star. Other players began to develop and play well with him and then they earned their respected status. A star is a person who can still produce when they are in the spotlight. When Jordan left the Bulls, Scottie Pippen wasn’t the same so you can’t call him a super star, Steve Kerr was a role player, as well as Toni K., Luc Longely. The Bulls were good because of team chemistry. The Cs won two seasons ago because the “super stars” you refer to was not in existence. They played as an unit. We looked at them as super stars but their stats said otherwise.
Since you don’t know anything about football let me help you out there as well. If you have a great defense, all you need is a QB who can manage the game for you and you will win. There aren’t too many teams that had a high powered offense (2000 Raiders vs 2000 Yucs) and a subpar or average defense that win the Super Bowl. If you need a recent example look at the Cardinals and Steelers. Big Ben is a good QB, but without that Defense the Steelers don’t even make it to playoffs much less win the Super Bowl. Yes Ben had the game winning TD pass but this doesn’t happen if the defense doesn’t play well all season.
ToeKnee
August 26th, 2009
2:19 pm
THE SIMPLE FACT IS THAT THE GAP BETWEEN THE HAWKS AND THE TOP OF THE EASTERN CONFERENCE IS AS SMALL AS ITS BEEN IN OVER A DECADE. WE HAVE THE TALENT TO COMPETE WITH ANYBODY. AND THATS EXCITING!
Nite Owl
August 26th, 2009
2:32 pm
@ truth-serum:
So you wouldn’t take Barkley or Rodman if you had the chance? Okay.
Only reason I brought those guys up is that they played at an All-Star level (and in Barkley’s case, HOF level) despite their size. We should expect the same from Smoove and Son of Tito.
And for good or ill, the team has committed to a front line of Marvin, Josh, and Al. They are now locked in for years, so the only way we win is by those guys getting better.
In other words, we’ve got a center and his name is Al Horford, like it or not.
Now that’s some truth! LOL.
DP
August 26th, 2009
2:44 pm
Terrell, the Detroit Pistons are the only team to win an NBA championship without one or more Hall of Fame quality superstars in the last 30 years, since the Seattle Supersonics of the late 70’s. The 80’s Lakers won with Magic, Kareem and Worthy, the 80’s Celtics won with Bird, Parrish and McHale. Philadelphia won one in the early 80’s with Moses Malone and Julius Erving. Detroit won 2 in the late 80’s with Isaah Thomas. Chicago won 6 with Jordan and Pippen. San Antonio has won 4 with Tim Duncan. Houston won 2 with Olajuwon. The Celtics won with KG and Pierce and Allen, the Lakers won this year with Kobe Bryant. The NBA is a superstars league and the Hawks don’t have any.
Football is a completely different story because it’s tougher for one or two guys to control a game when there are 22 starting players on each team (instead of 5) excluding kickers.
You can go back to the Bill Russell era and every championship was won by a team
jfreak13713
August 26th, 2009
2:46 pm
The Hawks appear to be three seed on paper?? It’s really close I think between Boston, Orlando and the Hawks. Cleveland appears leader of the pack at least during the regular season?? It’s reasonable to me that either Boston or Orlando could slip to the four seed and an injury or two could change things from top to bottom, but on paper I thin the Hawks could slip into that three hole??
Don’t forget their season won’t be as easy due to a more difficult schedule and teams will be prepared to face these Hawks instead of the Hawks of the past. Let’s just hope they stay healthy and learn to play well on the road and that guy they call their coach doesn’t screw things up?? No offense Woody, but gotta call like I see it!
jfreak13713
August 26th, 2009
2:48 pm
By difficult schedule I mean other teams in the East appear to have gotten better as well??
Hms
August 26th, 2009
3:09 pm
MannyT has it right. Improvement will come from within the team. But the Hawks will not crack the top three unless Boston continues to have health problems or Mr. Woodson suddenly understands how to use his players better.
MEANWHILE THE IDIOCY KNOWN AS TRUTH SERUM CONTINUES
blackrockystudio
August 26th, 2009
3:09 pm
Hear it from me first. Yes the hawks can crack the top three teams in the east. The hawks are very very talented and balanced. Coach woodson has to use these guys to their advantage. They’re one of the most atheletic teams in the league and they need to run and play great defense every night. the hawks have a rep. of laying off certain nights when the elite team bring it every night. if the hawks have gotten this out of their system then they can very well be on of the top three teams to beat in the east!
truth-serum
August 26th, 2009
3:11 pm
Truth be told, I am a lunatic.
Najeh Davenpoop
August 26th, 2009
3:14 pm
Cracking the top 3 is unlikely, and making the conference finals will still be a monumental task. But last year, the Hawks proved that while they may be the “best of the rest” in the East, they were not in the same league as Cleveland, Boston, or Orlando. If they were, they would have played a much more competitive seties against Cleveland. 50-55 wins and at least a highly competitive 2nd round series, if not an outright conference finals berth, are fair expectations for this team this year. The task now is to show that the Hawks are a lot closer to the top 3 than they are to the likes of Miami and Philadelphia.
Najeh Davenpoop
August 26th, 2009
3:14 pm
Cracking the top 3 is unlikely, and making the conference finals will still be a monumental task. But last year, the Hawks proved that while they may be the “best of the rest” in the East, they were not in the same league as Cleveland, Boston, or Orlando. If they were, they would have played a much more competitive series against Cleveland. 50-55 wins and at least a highly competitive 2nd round series, if not an outright conference finals berth, are fair expectations for this team this year. The task now is to show that the Hawks are a lot closer to the top 3 than they are to the likes of Miami and Philadelphia.
Nite Owl
August 26th, 2009
3:17 pm
A mad scientist, eh?
‘Cuz, ya know. Truth serum.
(Crickets)
Oh well.
JSS
August 26th, 2009
3:25 pm
Serum, you know I have respect for you because of your consistent stance on Jeff Schultz; but, I have to bring some pieces to your attention from your 2:07PM post:
“We need then and still need a center. Good GM’s find whats needed. San Antionio was smart enough to resigh mutombo last year before he got injured down the stretch. Miami went after Jermaine Oneal, we did …..nothing.”
Mutumbo – Houston (I’m sure it was just an oversight)
Brook Lopez and Devin Harris are the two pieces which NJ are planning to build with as they enter the LeBron Sweepstakes next Summer. That is why jettisoned Vince so readily and quickly. Jer O’Neal has some real physical problems, and I’ve been one of his biggest supporters since finally emerged from the Portland that was relegated to when he entered the league. Until I see him play a full productiive season again, I don’t tie real good money on him. I think the rest of the league has placed him in that loop as well. As far as Memphis, Habeet’s asking price was Joe Johnson sign and trade asking price in terms of what they were looking for in return for the pick. We would have been back to the Pete Babcock scenario in terms s of emptying the draft pick coffers and players bank (Josh, Joe, or Marvin). The latter players having to be sign and trades to secure them for Memphis because they were near being able to walk.
I love that you are passionate about needing a great or excellent big man. Still remember, Kareem, Wilt, and Shaq have lost almost as many championships combined as they won. But I love the big men so don’t go off OK? We just disagree on what price we’d be willing to pay… (Not the Hawks, I’m speaking of you and I)…. Have great day back inthe States.
Willie Coyote
August 26th, 2009
3:59 pm
If KG stays healthy, Boston is the best team in the East period. Cleveland is #2 in my opinion (assuming the pre-Lebron officiating doesn’t get too out of hand).
I can see the Hawks challenging the Magic though. I’m not sure they have the matchup advantage on the perimeter anymore now that Hedu is gone. The thing that allowed them to beat the Cavs was the fact that they had TWO 6′10″ guys exploiting matchups inside and out to pair with Howard inside. They seem to be easier to defend now though they will still be a great offensive team.
C. Tampa Ironworse
August 26th, 2009
4:07 pm
Thank you, DP. Terrell trying to make a point by using Big Ben (who’s maybe the 3rd best QB in the NFL) is laughable. DP hit it on the head…the NBA needs superstars and the Hawks don’t have one. Terrell needs to stick to whatever he might be good at…which it seems is not sports analysis.
Billy
August 26th, 2009
4:20 pm
Still a solid 4 seed if everyone stays healthy!
MIKE
August 26th, 2009
4:37 pm
OKAY I’M THINKING 3RD SEED BUT TO DO THAT THEY’LL HAVE TO HAVE MORE WINS THAN THE FORTH SEED AND LESS WINS THAN THE SECOND SEED TO ACCOMPLISHED THIS FEAT SOUNDS LIKE A AJC WRITER HUH
Gary
August 26th, 2009
4:40 pm
Boston is tops in my mind and the clear #1. Cleveland overachieved greatly last year compared to the two seasons prior. They are definitely not a lock for the top 2 spots, though I think they are #2 at worst. #3 is a toss up between the Hawks and Magic. Don’t be fooled by the Vince-anity that is happening with Orlando. They made it to the playoffs with two players in Alston and Lee playing strong in their back court and Turkoglu playing perimeter and hitting every three he took. All three of those players are gone and you saw how the team performed with Nelson back. Vince will just create more headaches. The Hawks improved their biggest weakness in my mind and that was another scorer behind the likes of JJ and Smith. Crawford provides that and he is a deep threat to top it off. The Hawks have improved by about 5-7 wins while the Magic will probably lose about 6-8 games off of their win total which allows the Hawks to take over the SE Division and #3 spot.
At worst this team is a #4 team. Miami made no improvements and now with their top pick from last year entering rehab it is starting to look like D Wade could be leaving after the season. Philly, Chicago, and Detroit will battle for the 6-8 spots and Washington will make a little improvement with Arenas hopefully playing this season.
NoleRick
August 26th, 2009
4:52 pm
If Woodys coaching can improve yeah they can make it. “Iso Joe” wont get it.
CDawg42
August 26th, 2009
5:09 pm
People have to realize, being the #4 ain’t all bad. Remember, not too long ago the Hawks were a bad team…REALLY BAD. They were so far down that it is miraculous that they are even in the conversation about the #3 or #4 team in the East now. Those of us long-suffering Hawks fans are just glad we’re back to being competitive at this point. Let’s remain competitive, continue to grow and get better, and realistically worry about championships in the next few years or so.
Sonny Clusters
August 26th, 2009
5:13 pm
Clusters don’t play basketball because we can’t jump. Not a single Clusters can touch the rim but Clusters can play baseball and Clusters is smart.
AJC writers suck
August 26th, 2009
5:15 pm
wow you left out a huge addition for the cavs! anthony parker is a great shooter/scorer who defends…
bowman
August 26th, 2009
5:41 pm
Personnel improvements aside, the Hawks will not challenge for the top spot until they hire a coach who can maximize the talent on hand. Mike “I don’t know what happened” Woodson, lacking in leadership skills and imagination, must be replaced before the Hawks start sliding instead of rising.
bowman
– -
“Art will always be Art.” – Goethe
Orazio
August 26th, 2009
5:50 pm
who cares about the nba. bad sport now, used to be a great sport. What happened? Sports fans in ATL just don’t pay any attention to it.
tbhawksfan
August 26th, 2009
8:47 pm
The Hawks have already shown that they can run a healthy Boston out of the gym. If Woody will let them run, do you think Igas and Shaq can keep up with Horford?
Crawford will score and our second team looks second to none.
Let’s believe in our young guys, they could possibly challenge any team.
cdog
August 26th, 2009
9:29 pm
THE SIGNING OF JOE SMITH IS A POSITIVE BUT RICK SUND STILL NEEDS A LEGITIMATE CENTER TO PUSH THE HAWKS OVER THE HUMP.THE CENTER DOES NOT HAVE TO BE A SCORER BUT A SHOT BLOCKER AND GOOD DEFENDER. THE JAMES, HOWARDS,AND BRYANT SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO DRIVE TO BASKET AND DO WHAT THEY WANT TO. THE CENTER SHOULD BE AN INTIMIDATOR WHO WILL PUT SOMEONE THROUGH THE FLOOR.
defensive hole
August 26th, 2009
11:08 pm
Ya’ll are right pointing out we have a defensive hole against some teams at center. I would call it a smaller hole then the defensive hole at pg. Then there is the largest hole of all with a back court jacking up a bunch of jumpers. I don’t see Crawford fixing that at all.
Our new plan is to out score them?. Another warrior team?
With all of our warts we can still win 50+ and a 4th seed. To ask for more than that would be asking for devine intervention.
truth-serum
August 26th, 2009
11:20 pm
I run away whenever I am confronted with my own stupid comments. I even I know I’m an idiot lunatic.
Reid Adair
August 27th, 2009
1:23 am
I would disagree that Orlando got better. Losing Hedo Turkoglu basically makes their free-agency acquisitions a wash.
But, that being said, at best, I think the Hawks are third.
Truth-serum
August 27th, 2009
2:20 am
JSS
August 26th, 2009
3:25 pm
Good Catch!! I stand corrected. Yes I meant Houston. Lebron wont be in N.J. lets get real. The markets not there for a celeb like him. The nets know it. The market to the farnorth has diminished ask al Harrington and Jason Kidd. Lebron wont be there. Yea, I believe we could have and still can get Lopez. But hey, I wont disagree with you. Its a fair opinion. I also would look at what price to pay. Right now we have some guys to dangle. I would not sell the house to get the center but I would give a very good player and a pick…. I enjoyed your input last year and look forward to it again this year.
Nite Owl
August 26th, 2009
2:32 pm
I see your point about Barkley and Rodman,Vs Josh and Al. Yeah, Barkley and Rodman had very good careers. Barkley could score and rebound and Rodman Could score. It will be interesting to see what becomes of Josh, He came straight from high school and is only now beginning to come into his own. Al was a four year man at florida and was very polish (did not require a special needs teacher, for all you Woody haters.) I dont see Al as a scorer or as quite the rebounder of a Rodman, so your point is well taken. All four are power forward so its a fair statement. Good point.
To the guy whose impersonating me with lunatic writing.(im assuming its a AJC staff writer because ive notified them and theyve taken no action which is the same a condoning it.) I appreciate the celebrity. Its an honor to be singled out. Im sure Ive offended the Bubba crew and the Redneck as well as booty breath Ken the grand hater dragon and the hate posse, along with the AJC writers. Im sorry your feeling were hurt. But Hey its nice to know you are reading me and that Ive exposed your hatred.
Good job.
Thanks for the shout out, Dic Breath.
A hit dog will holla.
Hms
August 26th, 2009
3:09 pm
You can take your hood off now… I see you. Thanks for the shout out.
Truth-serum
August 27th, 2009
2:23 am
Nite Owl
August 26th, 2009
2:32 pm
Correction, Rodman couldnt score but could rebound.
Hms
August 27th, 2009
2:26 am
Guys, I want to tell you a secret ive lived with for a long time. Im gay. Very gay. I like animals too… I hope you arent offended and will accept me for what I am. A sick and perverted man.
Hms
August 27th, 2009
2:37 am
Hms
August 27th, 2009
2:26 am
Guys, I want to tell you a secret ive lived with for a long time. Im gay. Very gay. I like animals too… I hope you arent offended and will accept me for what I am. A sick and perverted man.
Ken and I are a couple and we both wear our pants with the zippers to the rear. Ive also got a crush on Michael Vick. There…Ive said it. Im tired of being under cover. Ken and I are coming out of the closet.
Like it or not!!
Hms
August 27th, 2009
2:40 am
I never said I was very gay. Just gay.
Today’s Celtics Links 8/27 | Boston Sports Nation
August 27th, 2009
9:50 am
[...] in the Country? The Hoop Doctors Top 10 Star Players Who Accepted A Back-up Role AJC Hawks: After all moves, are they still only fourth best? Examiner 2009-10 Predictions: Best Newcomer Waiting for Next Year Shaq Acquisition [...]
zack
August 27th, 2009
10:57 am
all i can say is that bosotn will win
and get banner number 18 and crush who ever are in there way
=]
go celtics!!!
whooo
All I'm Saying Is...
August 27th, 2009
11:10 am
“…The center thing has been addressed in blogs and columns countless times. Everybody knows this team gets significantly better with a legit guy in the middle and Horford moving to PF. But (familiar refrain) the bottom line is that there are just not that many good centers in the league, and the ones who are around certainly aren’t available in trade.”
Jeff:
Let’s be clear: at least two legitimate centers were available this off-season but Rick Sund elected not to go after them and they were Tyson Chandler and Theo Ratliff. Charlotte added Tyson and San Antonio signed Theo. Opinions differ on the health and talent level of each but I the bottom line for me is that I trust the judgment of Larry Brown and Greg Popovich more than anyone else’s because, last time I checked, they both have at least one NBA Championship ring.
Next, besides drafting a point guard and re-signing players acquired or drafted by Billy Knight, the only significant Rick Sund move was trading for Crawford and that should be an excellent one.
Finally, I hope we sign Garrett Siler. Why? He’s literally a big man, could provide some serviceable minutes in a big man rotation this year, and ultimately could become the Center we need.
So, let’s see things clearly, speak the facts plainly, and not trip over ourselves praising Rick Sund while ignoring what he could have done and chose not to do. Sometimes the player changes you don’t make are just as important if not moreso as the ones you chose to do.
LET’S GO HAWKS!
James
August 27th, 2009
12:06 pm
Wow Jeff, seems everybody doing anything these days has haters. Don’t worry about them, keep the prolific blog-output going. Most of your readers appreciate it (the only ones you should care about anyway).
Nate
August 27th, 2009
4:40 pm
I hope the Hawks have money save for the 2010-2011 season. Atleast i see them still at the number 4 spot. The three elites did get better, but better in age. We really need one other person to go with Joe Johnson or just get James next year.
FLCeltsFan Daily Links, August 27, 2009. | Hardwood Houdini | A Boston Celtics Blog
August 27th, 2009
4:43 pm
[...] Best Guard in the Country? The Hoop Doctors Top 10 Star Players Who Accepted A Back-up Role AJC Hawks: After all moves, are they still only fourth best? Examiner 2009-10 Predictions: Best Newcomer Waiting for Next Year Shaq Acquisition Considered [...]
truth-serum
August 27th, 2009
7:19 pm
Ooops. I was posting as Hms . Sorry about that people! My inside voice was talking on the outside again. Now where is that astroglide. My butt hurts. I need to quit bending over so much at the Klan rallies.
truth-serum
August 27th, 2009
7:41 pm
By the way, I’m also one of those idiots that pretends that I’m not an Arian Nation member. I sure hope my Klan brothers aren’t reading this blog, or they’ll catch me in the act like they did with those two goats. I thought I’d never live that one down. I hate Ken because he turned me down when I propositioned him. Hater.
truth-serum
August 27th, 2009
8:01 pm
HmS’
cdog
August 27th, 2009
8:26 pm
i read where someone said that garrett siler should be sent to developemental league. that’s dumb. siler needs to be on the hawks roster getting valuable playing time
Big Ray
August 27th, 2009
9:47 pm
cdog,
Good point. Siler would learn more from the NBA game than he would from the D-League game. However, playing time is playing time. Horford and Smith are the starters at C and PF. Their backups are Pachulia and Joe Smith. I don’t know how much time Siler will get unless he proves that he’s 1) Better than Morris, and 2)Can bring more than Smith.
I’d rather him be in the D-League getting some good burn than sitting at the end of the bench, doing nothing but watching. At least he can always be called up from the D-League.
Big Ray
August 27th, 2009
9:50 pm
Truth Serum,
I know you like Lopez. But the kid is a solid 7-foot center. And he’s young. No way does New Jersey give that up. Teams just aren’t giving up legit centers (especially young ones). Not in this league. Sorry, but it’s a pipe dream. You only give up that kind of player if you’re getting a superstar in return. For one thing, we don’t have one of those. For another thing, you don’t give THOSE up either, unless you’re getting rid of a pile of cash, starting over, and trying to balance out your squad.
Rufus1
August 28th, 2009
12:19 am
3RD Seed Very Possible
The Cavs and Orlando benefited from very few injuries and the weak east. The Cavs don’t have a very talented team. They played way above their heads last and they won’t sustain that level next year. Orlando
is still a young team just like Atlanta and we match-up well against them. Their is one dominant team in the east Boston…the difference between the the rest is coaching and desire.
Go Hawks…………..
Truth-serum
August 28th, 2009
1:09 am
Big Ray
August 27th, 2009
9:50 pm
I hear you. I dont think he’s untouchable but I agree with you he’s an asset and certainly a piece to build with. I can imagine a player with his tenacity with the Hawks and then we could talk about moving to the title rounds. Until with then a championship is just a pipe dream… But we are just a center away!
All I’m Saying Is…
August 27th, 2009
11:10 am
Once again I agree with you. The organization made very little efford to go after the missing piece… the piece that takes us there. I would have like to see us go after the rookie from UConn. A trade and a draft pick and we could have been there. Where are the aggressive closers in the world? There was a day when business men meant business. Now we weakly say what cant be done. What happened to make it happen…where are the winners? Champions dont say it cant happen… they make it happen… they dont hope you get injured so we can have a chance. The get in your face and make their chances. There is talent in the league like mr Bynum with the lakers. A real GM will make it happen and not wimp out.
Hms
August 27th, 2009
2:40 am
Youre orientation is not my business. I dont have any problem telling you are a worm. Apparently Im not the only one who see you for who you are.
What you and Ken do is your business.
I love to talk basketball with you but you arent that bright. I wont be responding to you any more because its a waste of time. Have fun emulating my moniker. It pretty much reveals what manner of man you are. Have a nice day.
v8dreaming
August 28th, 2009
1:39 am
the hawks will either barely make the playoffs or miss them entirely this year due to woodson’s inability to use his players properly. he’ll use the starting 5 plus zaza, joe smith and crawford all during the regular season and if/when it’s play off time, he’ll throw in the other guys and wonder why they aren’t playing well after barely playing all year.
v8dreaming
August 28th, 2009
1:47 am
oh and teague is the second coming of acie law. not a true point and will get shoved to the end of the bench.
cdog
August 28th, 2009
3:45 am
overall, i like the current hawks roster.the signing of joe smith gives the hawks versatility. a big body like siler would be a plus. josh smith is the key. he can give you that extra spark that most teams does not have especially if his offense has improved. he must play smart,. team defense is the key also. the hawks still need a steve kerr type shooter to help when teams like cleveland did in the playoffs starts ton double joe johnson. i think with a few more key additions the hawks can surprise alot of peiple this season.
Big Ray
August 28th, 2009
5:43 am
Uh, no. Teague is NOT the second coming of Law. Totally different kinds of players. Even Woody thinks so.
Big Ray
August 28th, 2009
5:51 am
cdog,
I think Crawford helps when it comes to double teaming Joe. Woody has to know that having that dude on the floor when Joe is out there from time to time will make it easier on Joe. And really, it also makes it easier on Crawford as well. Add Bibby to the mix, and you have your Steve Kerr (with a quicker release and better ball-handling skills).
There will be times where we can play “small” like that and just kill teams. Let’s hope that Woody figures out when that mismatch is available, and exploits it. This will help a lot, and let’s be honest…how many teams will capably defend a lineup that features three guys that can handle, one of which is a dead-eye shooter (especially when open), and two of which can penetrate and find other ways to score? Even Washington won’t want to match up with our guards.
Another trick to this will be mixing in the frontcourt well, so as to not keep it an all-perimeter game.
And I agree: Josh Smith is one of the biggest keys to this team. His maturity and on-court improvement can mean a lot. If you ask me, all of his on-court improvements will flow from his increased maturity. That includes his shot, his handle, defense, everything, if you think about it.
DCHawksFan
August 28th, 2009
9:46 am
I am excited about this season either way. Now everyone go buy lottery tickets. The winner has to buy the Hawks from this worthless management group.
All World
August 28th, 2009
11:44 am
Sign FLIP, the people’s choice.
mamalon
August 28th, 2009
4:22 pm
u forgot Matt Barnes is in Orlando too, scrub.
Atlanta Hawks Thread - Page 2 - iSTORYA.NET
August 28th, 2009
9:15 pm
[...] there. So do you see the Hawks cracking the top three? There
jared
August 30th, 2009
12:44 am
if josh smith either learns to hit a jump shot or starts attacking the then i can see the hawks winning the division. otherwise i see them somewhere between 4 and 6.
thetruthisspeaking
August 30th, 2009
1:28 pm
you guys that say orlando got worst clearly do not watch the magic play, you say turk was the key ingredient in the magic sucess well i will not agree with that, i watched the magic all year long and when jammer nelson was heathy he was the center point of the magic offense hedo was at best the 3 or 4th opinion and if you saw the playoffs he did not do anything in the series against the 76rs except for a game winning shot so we lost rafer alston and lee but we added bass,vince,barnes,williams,and anderson…. we are deeper at every position and can still play with two 6 10′ fowards with lewis and anderson, we did loose lee but we added anderson that is younger than lee and has a lot of potential the magic will not fall to the 4th place in the east trust me on that we have a better overall team than antlanta more experience and talent… and for all of you guys saying vince is a ball hog and selfish that because he was in bad teams were he had to put his team on his back he will not have to do this on the orlando magic he will just have to score 17-19 points 5 or 6 assist and will be the 3-4th scoring option… and speaking of ball hogs did you guys forget jamal crawford is as big as a ball hog as vince???
truly1
August 30th, 2009
4:47 pm
Ok glad we dont have to start crawford like you guys have to start vince goodluck with puttin vince on the bench when he jacks up shots since you are comparing him to crawford our 6th man???