Hawks: Are they still only fourth best in NBA’s East?
Maybe you've heard: These two guys are now teammates in Cleveland.
In engineering one of the busiest and most successful summers in Hawks’ history, general manager Rick Sund strengthened the bench (Jamal Crawford and Joe Smith), drafted a talented guard (Jeff Teague) and retained the team’s top three free agents (Mike Bibby, Marvin Williams and Zaza Pachulia).
Only one problem: Atlanta might still be only the fourth best team in the Eastern Conference.
Loading ...This week’s signing of Smith concluded the Hawks’ significant moves this off-season. Here’s my question for you: What should the expectation be?
Everybody ahead of them in the East (Cleveland, Boston, Orlando) also got better. So did some teams behind them, though probably not enough to crack the top four. Should we expect coach Mike Woodson, who will be entering the final year of his contract, to win more than one playoff series next season?
Here’s a quick recap of the top four teams in the East, with last year’s record and playoff results in parenthesis).
♦ CLEVELAND (66-16, lost to Orlando in conference finals): After being stunned by the Magic, they’ve surrounded LeBron James with significant help: Shaquille O’Neal, whose minutes presumably will be limited during the regular season so he’s stronger for the playoffs; forward Jamario Moon (from Miami) and forward Leon Powe (from Boston). They also re-signed Anderson Varajao.
♦ BOSTON (62-20, lost to Orlando in conference semis): The good news for Hawks fans is the Celtics signed Shelden Williams. But they’ve added Rasheed Wallace and re-signed Glen “Big Baby” Davis to a team that still might have been the NBA’s best last season, if not for the late-season knee injury to Kevin Garnett.
♦ ORLANDO (59-23, lost to Los Angeles in NBA finals): Atlanta’s Dwight Howard and the Magic were a blast to watch in the playoffs, particularly against the overhyped Cavaliers. Now they’ve added power forward Brandon Bass from Dallas, matched Dallas’s offer sheet to keep center Marcin Gortat and then there’s the big move – adding guard Vince Carter to play alongside Jameer Nelson. Carter hasn’t been a part of a lot of team success in his career so that will be interesting to watch. But if it works, it’ll be huge. Orlando also added a solid power forward off the bench, Ryan Anderson from New Jersey.
♦ ATLANTA (47-35): In addition to adding Crawford, Smith and Teague, and keeping Bibby, Williams and Pachulia, the Hawks traded away Speedy Claxton and Acie Law. There might be some addition by subtraction there.
So do you see the Hawks cracking the top three? There’s also a poll to the left.
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107 comments Add your comment
DP
August 26th, 2009
2:44 pm
Terrell, the Detroit Pistons are the only team to win an NBA championship without one or more Hall of Fame quality superstars in the last 30 years, since the Seattle Supersonics of the late 70’s. The 80’s Lakers won with Magic, Kareem and Worthy, the 80’s Celtics won with Bird, Parrish and McHale. Philadelphia won one in the early 80’s with Moses Malone and Julius Erving. Detroit won 2 in the late 80’s with Isaah Thomas. Chicago won 6 with Jordan and Pippen. San Antonio has won 4 with Tim Duncan. Houston won 2 with Olajuwon. The Celtics won with KG and Pierce and Allen, the Lakers won this year with Kobe Bryant. The NBA is a superstars league and the Hawks don’t have any.
Football is a completely different story because it’s tougher for one or two guys to control a game when there are 22 starting players on each team (instead of 5) excluding kickers.
You can go back to the Bill Russell era and every championship was won by a team
jfreak13713
August 26th, 2009
2:46 pm
The Hawks appear to be three seed on paper?? It’s really close I think between Boston, Orlando and the Hawks. Cleveland appears leader of the pack at least during the regular season?? It’s reasonable to me that either Boston or Orlando could slip to the four seed and an injury or two could change things from top to bottom, but on paper I thin the Hawks could slip into that three hole??
Don’t forget their season won’t be as easy due to a more difficult schedule and teams will be prepared to face these Hawks instead of the Hawks of the past. Let’s just hope they stay healthy and learn to play well on the road and that guy they call their coach doesn’t screw things up?? No offense Woody, but gotta call like I see it!
jfreak13713
August 26th, 2009
2:48 pm
By difficult schedule I mean other teams in the East appear to have gotten better as well??
Hms
August 26th, 2009
3:09 pm
MannyT has it right. Improvement will come from within the team. But the Hawks will not crack the top three unless Boston continues to have health problems or Mr. Woodson suddenly understands how to use his players better.
MEANWHILE THE IDIOCY KNOWN AS TRUTH SERUM CONTINUES
blackrockystudio
August 26th, 2009
3:09 pm
Hear it from me first. Yes the hawks can crack the top three teams in the east. The hawks are very very talented and balanced. Coach woodson has to use these guys to their advantage. They’re one of the most atheletic teams in the league and they need to run and play great defense every night. the hawks have a rep. of laying off certain nights when the elite team bring it every night. if the hawks have gotten this out of their system then they can very well be on of the top three teams to beat in the east!
truth-serum
August 26th, 2009
3:11 pm
Truth be told, I am a lunatic.
Najeh Davenpoop
August 26th, 2009
3:14 pm
Cracking the top 3 is unlikely, and making the conference finals will still be a monumental task. But last year, the Hawks proved that while they may be the “best of the rest” in the East, they were not in the same league as Cleveland, Boston, or Orlando. If they were, they would have played a much more competitive seties against Cleveland. 50-55 wins and at least a highly competitive 2nd round series, if not an outright conference finals berth, are fair expectations for this team this year. The task now is to show that the Hawks are a lot closer to the top 3 than they are to the likes of Miami and Philadelphia.
Najeh Davenpoop
August 26th, 2009
3:14 pm
Cracking the top 3 is unlikely, and making the conference finals will still be a monumental task. But last year, the Hawks proved that while they may be the “best of the rest” in the East, they were not in the same league as Cleveland, Boston, or Orlando. If they were, they would have played a much more competitive series against Cleveland. 50-55 wins and at least a highly competitive 2nd round series, if not an outright conference finals berth, are fair expectations for this team this year. The task now is to show that the Hawks are a lot closer to the top 3 than they are to the likes of Miami and Philadelphia.
Nite Owl
August 26th, 2009
3:17 pm
A mad scientist, eh?
‘Cuz, ya know. Truth serum.
(Crickets)
Oh well.
JSS
August 26th, 2009
3:25 pm
Serum, you know I have respect for you because of your consistent stance on Jeff Schultz; but, I have to bring some pieces to your attention from your 2:07PM post:
“We need then and still need a center. Good GM’s find whats needed. San Antionio was smart enough to resigh mutombo last year before he got injured down the stretch. Miami went after Jermaine Oneal, we did …..nothing.”
Mutumbo – Houston (I’m sure it was just an oversight)
Brook Lopez and Devin Harris are the two pieces which NJ are planning to build with as they enter the LeBron Sweepstakes next Summer. That is why jettisoned Vince so readily and quickly. Jer O’Neal has some real physical problems, and I’ve been one of his biggest supporters since finally emerged from the Portland that was relegated to when he entered the league. Until I see him play a full productiive season again, I don’t tie real good money on him. I think the rest of the league has placed him in that loop as well. As far as Memphis, Habeet’s asking price was Joe Johnson sign and trade asking price in terms of what they were looking for in return for the pick. We would have been back to the Pete Babcock scenario in terms s of emptying the draft pick coffers and players bank (Josh, Joe, or Marvin). The latter players having to be sign and trades to secure them for Memphis because they were near being able to walk.
I love that you are passionate about needing a great or excellent big man. Still remember, Kareem, Wilt, and Shaq have lost almost as many championships combined as they won. But I love the big men so don’t go off OK? We just disagree on what price we’d be willing to pay… (Not the Hawks, I’m speaking of you and I)…. Have great day back inthe States.
Willie Coyote
August 26th, 2009
3:59 pm
If KG stays healthy, Boston is the best team in the East period. Cleveland is #2 in my opinion (assuming the pre-Lebron officiating doesn’t get too out of hand).
I can see the Hawks challenging the Magic though. I’m not sure they have the matchup advantage on the perimeter anymore now that Hedu is gone. The thing that allowed them to beat the Cavs was the fact that they had TWO 6′10″ guys exploiting matchups inside and out to pair with Howard inside. They seem to be easier to defend now though they will still be a great offensive team.
C. Tampa Ironworse
August 26th, 2009
4:07 pm
Thank you, DP. Terrell trying to make a point by using Big Ben (who’s maybe the 3rd best QB in the NFL) is laughable. DP hit it on the head…the NBA needs superstars and the Hawks don’t have one. Terrell needs to stick to whatever he might be good at…which it seems is not sports analysis.
Billy
August 26th, 2009
4:20 pm
Still a solid 4 seed if everyone stays healthy!
MIKE
August 26th, 2009
4:37 pm
OKAY I’M THINKING 3RD SEED BUT TO DO THAT THEY’LL HAVE TO HAVE MORE WINS THAN THE FORTH SEED AND LESS WINS THAN THE SECOND SEED TO ACCOMPLISHED THIS FEAT SOUNDS LIKE A AJC WRITER HUH
Gary
August 26th, 2009
4:40 pm
Boston is tops in my mind and the clear #1. Cleveland overachieved greatly last year compared to the two seasons prior. They are definitely not a lock for the top 2 spots, though I think they are #2 at worst. #3 is a toss up between the Hawks and Magic. Don’t be fooled by the Vince-anity that is happening with Orlando. They made it to the playoffs with two players in Alston and Lee playing strong in their back court and Turkoglu playing perimeter and hitting every three he took. All three of those players are gone and you saw how the team performed with Nelson back. Vince will just create more headaches. The Hawks improved their biggest weakness in my mind and that was another scorer behind the likes of JJ and Smith. Crawford provides that and he is a deep threat to top it off. The Hawks have improved by about 5-7 wins while the Magic will probably lose about 6-8 games off of their win total which allows the Hawks to take over the SE Division and #3 spot.
At worst this team is a #4 team. Miami made no improvements and now with their top pick from last year entering rehab it is starting to look like D Wade could be leaving after the season. Philly, Chicago, and Detroit will battle for the 6-8 spots and Washington will make a little improvement with Arenas hopefully playing this season.
NoleRick
August 26th, 2009
4:52 pm
If Woodys coaching can improve yeah they can make it. “Iso Joe” wont get it.
CDawg42
August 26th, 2009
5:09 pm
People have to realize, being the #4 ain’t all bad. Remember, not too long ago the Hawks were a bad team…REALLY BAD. They were so far down that it is miraculous that they are even in the conversation about the #3 or #4 team in the East now. Those of us long-suffering Hawks fans are just glad we’re back to being competitive at this point. Let’s remain competitive, continue to grow and get better, and realistically worry about championships in the next few years or so.
Sonny Clusters
August 26th, 2009
5:13 pm
Clusters don’t play basketball because we can’t jump. Not a single Clusters can touch the rim but Clusters can play baseball and Clusters is smart.
AJC writers suck
August 26th, 2009
5:15 pm
wow you left out a huge addition for the cavs! anthony parker is a great shooter/scorer who defends…
bowman
August 26th, 2009
5:41 pm
Personnel improvements aside, the Hawks will not challenge for the top spot until they hire a coach who can maximize the talent on hand. Mike “I don’t know what happened” Woodson, lacking in leadership skills and imagination, must be replaced before the Hawks start sliding instead of rising.
bowman
– -
“Art will always be Art.” – Goethe
Orazio
August 26th, 2009
5:50 pm
who cares about the nba. bad sport now, used to be a great sport. What happened? Sports fans in ATL just don’t pay any attention to it.
tbhawksfan
August 26th, 2009
8:47 pm
The Hawks have already shown that they can run a healthy Boston out of the gym. If Woody will let them run, do you think Igas and Shaq can keep up with Horford?
Crawford will score and our second team looks second to none.
Let’s believe in our young guys, they could possibly challenge any team.
cdog
August 26th, 2009
9:29 pm
THE SIGNING OF JOE SMITH IS A POSITIVE BUT RICK SUND STILL NEEDS A LEGITIMATE CENTER TO PUSH THE HAWKS OVER THE HUMP.THE CENTER DOES NOT HAVE TO BE A SCORER BUT A SHOT BLOCKER AND GOOD DEFENDER. THE JAMES, HOWARDS,AND BRYANT SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO DRIVE TO BASKET AND DO WHAT THEY WANT TO. THE CENTER SHOULD BE AN INTIMIDATOR WHO WILL PUT SOMEONE THROUGH THE FLOOR.
defensive hole
August 26th, 2009
11:08 pm
Ya’ll are right pointing out we have a defensive hole against some teams at center. I would call it a smaller hole then the defensive hole at pg. Then there is the largest hole of all with a back court jacking up a bunch of jumpers. I don’t see Crawford fixing that at all.
Our new plan is to out score them?. Another warrior team?
With all of our warts we can still win 50+ and a 4th seed. To ask for more than that would be asking for devine intervention.
truth-serum
August 26th, 2009
11:20 pm
I run away whenever I am confronted with my own stupid comments. I even I know I’m an idiot lunatic.
Reid Adair
August 27th, 2009
1:23 am
I would disagree that Orlando got better. Losing Hedo Turkoglu basically makes their free-agency acquisitions a wash.
But, that being said, at best, I think the Hawks are third.
Truth-serum
August 27th, 2009
2:20 am
JSS
August 26th, 2009
3:25 pm
Good Catch!! I stand corrected. Yes I meant Houston. Lebron wont be in N.J. lets get real. The markets not there for a celeb like him. The nets know it. The market to the farnorth has diminished ask al Harrington and Jason Kidd. Lebron wont be there. Yea, I believe we could have and still can get Lopez. But hey, I wont disagree with you. Its a fair opinion. I also would look at what price to pay. Right now we have some guys to dangle. I would not sell the house to get the center but I would give a very good player and a pick…. I enjoyed your input last year and look forward to it again this year.
Nite Owl
August 26th, 2009
2:32 pm
I see your point about Barkley and Rodman,Vs Josh and Al. Yeah, Barkley and Rodman had very good careers. Barkley could score and rebound and Rodman Could score. It will be interesting to see what becomes of Josh, He came straight from high school and is only now beginning to come into his own. Al was a four year man at florida and was very polish (did not require a special needs teacher, for all you Woody haters.) I dont see Al as a scorer or as quite the rebounder of a Rodman, so your point is well taken. All four are power forward so its a fair statement. Good point.
To the guy whose impersonating me with lunatic writing.(im assuming its a AJC staff writer because ive notified them and theyve taken no action which is the same a condoning it.) I appreciate the celebrity. Its an honor to be singled out. Im sure Ive offended the Bubba crew and the Redneck as well as booty breath Ken the grand hater dragon and the hate posse, along with the AJC writers. Im sorry your feeling were hurt. But Hey its nice to know you are reading me and that Ive exposed your hatred.
Good job.
Thanks for the shout out, Dic Breath.
A hit dog will holla.
Hms
August 26th, 2009
3:09 pm
You can take your hood off now… I see you. Thanks for the shout out.
Truth-serum
August 27th, 2009
2:23 am
Nite Owl
August 26th, 2009
2:32 pm
Correction, Rodman couldnt score but could rebound.
Hms
August 27th, 2009
2:26 am
Guys, I want to tell you a secret ive lived with for a long time. Im gay. Very gay. I like animals too… I hope you arent offended and will accept me for what I am. A sick and perverted man.
Hms
August 27th, 2009
2:37 am
Hms
August 27th, 2009
2:26 am
Guys, I want to tell you a secret ive lived with for a long time. Im gay. Very gay. I like animals too… I hope you arent offended and will accept me for what I am. A sick and perverted man.
Ken and I are a couple and we both wear our pants with the zippers to the rear. Ive also got a crush on Michael Vick. There…Ive said it. Im tired of being under cover. Ken and I are coming out of the closet.
Like it or not!!
Hms
August 27th, 2009
2:40 am
I never said I was very gay. Just gay.
Today’s Celtics Links 8/27 | Boston Sports Nation
August 27th, 2009
9:50 am
[...] in the Country? The Hoop Doctors Top 10 Star Players Who Accepted A Back-up Role AJC Hawks: After all moves, are they still only fourth best? Examiner 2009-10 Predictions: Best Newcomer Waiting for Next Year Shaq Acquisition [...]
zack
August 27th, 2009
10:57 am
all i can say is that bosotn will win
and get banner number 18 and crush who ever are in there way
=]
go celtics!!!
whooo
All I'm Saying Is...
August 27th, 2009
11:10 am
“…The center thing has been addressed in blogs and columns countless times. Everybody knows this team gets significantly better with a legit guy in the middle and Horford moving to PF. But (familiar refrain) the bottom line is that there are just not that many good centers in the league, and the ones who are around certainly aren’t available in trade.”
Jeff:
Let’s be clear: at least two legitimate centers were available this off-season but Rick Sund elected not to go after them and they were Tyson Chandler and Theo Ratliff. Charlotte added Tyson and San Antonio signed Theo. Opinions differ on the health and talent level of each but I the bottom line for me is that I trust the judgment of Larry Brown and Greg Popovich more than anyone else’s because, last time I checked, they both have at least one NBA Championship ring.
Next, besides drafting a point guard and re-signing players acquired or drafted by Billy Knight, the only significant Rick Sund move was trading for Crawford and that should be an excellent one.
Finally, I hope we sign Garrett Siler. Why? He’s literally a big man, could provide some serviceable minutes in a big man rotation this year, and ultimately could become the Center we need.
So, let’s see things clearly, speak the facts plainly, and not trip over ourselves praising Rick Sund while ignoring what he could have done and chose not to do. Sometimes the player changes you don’t make are just as important if not moreso as the ones you chose to do.
LET’S GO HAWKS!
James
August 27th, 2009
12:06 pm
Wow Jeff, seems everybody doing anything these days has haters. Don’t worry about them, keep the prolific blog-output going. Most of your readers appreciate it (the only ones you should care about anyway).
Nate
August 27th, 2009
4:40 pm
I hope the Hawks have money save for the 2010-2011 season. Atleast i see them still at the number 4 spot. The three elites did get better, but better in age. We really need one other person to go with Joe Johnson or just get James next year.
FLCeltsFan Daily Links, August 27, 2009. | Hardwood Houdini | A Boston Celtics Blog
August 27th, 2009
4:43 pm
[...] Best Guard in the Country? The Hoop Doctors Top 10 Star Players Who Accepted A Back-up Role AJC Hawks: After all moves, are they still only fourth best? Examiner 2009-10 Predictions: Best Newcomer Waiting for Next Year Shaq Acquisition Considered [...]
truth-serum
August 27th, 2009
7:19 pm
Ooops. I was posting as Hms . Sorry about that people! My inside voice was talking on the outside again. Now where is that astroglide. My butt hurts. I need to quit bending over so much at the Klan rallies.
truth-serum
August 27th, 2009
7:41 pm
By the way, I’m also one of those idiots that pretends that I’m not an Arian Nation member. I sure hope my Klan brothers aren’t reading this blog, or they’ll catch me in the act like they did with those two goats. I thought I’d never live that one down. I hate Ken because he turned me down when I propositioned him. Hater.
truth-serum
August 27th, 2009
8:01 pm
HmS’
cdog
August 27th, 2009
8:26 pm
i read where someone said that garrett siler should be sent to developemental league. that’s dumb. siler needs to be on the hawks roster getting valuable playing time
Big Ray
August 27th, 2009
9:47 pm
cdog,
Good point. Siler would learn more from the NBA game than he would from the D-League game. However, playing time is playing time. Horford and Smith are the starters at C and PF. Their backups are Pachulia and Joe Smith. I don’t know how much time Siler will get unless he proves that he’s 1) Better than Morris, and 2)Can bring more than Smith.
I’d rather him be in the D-League getting some good burn than sitting at the end of the bench, doing nothing but watching. At least he can always be called up from the D-League.
Big Ray
August 27th, 2009
9:50 pm
Truth Serum,
I know you like Lopez. But the kid is a solid 7-foot center. And he’s young. No way does New Jersey give that up. Teams just aren’t giving up legit centers (especially young ones). Not in this league. Sorry, but it’s a pipe dream. You only give up that kind of player if you’re getting a superstar in return. For one thing, we don’t have one of those. For another thing, you don’t give THOSE up either, unless you’re getting rid of a pile of cash, starting over, and trying to balance out your squad.
Rufus1
August 28th, 2009
12:19 am
3RD Seed Very Possible
The Cavs and Orlando benefited from very few injuries and the weak east. The Cavs don’t have a very talented team. They played way above their heads last and they won’t sustain that level next year. Orlando
is still a young team just like Atlanta and we match-up well against them. Their is one dominant team in the east Boston…the difference between the the rest is coaching and desire.
Go Hawks…………..
Truth-serum
August 28th, 2009
1:09 am
Big Ray
August 27th, 2009
9:50 pm
I hear you. I dont think he’s untouchable but I agree with you he’s an asset and certainly a piece to build with. I can imagine a player with his tenacity with the Hawks and then we could talk about moving to the title rounds. Until with then a championship is just a pipe dream… But we are just a center away!
All I’m Saying Is…
August 27th, 2009
11:10 am
Once again I agree with you. The organization made very little efford to go after the missing piece… the piece that takes us there. I would have like to see us go after the rookie from UConn. A trade and a draft pick and we could have been there. Where are the aggressive closers in the world? There was a day when business men meant business. Now we weakly say what cant be done. What happened to make it happen…where are the winners? Champions dont say it cant happen… they make it happen… they dont hope you get injured so we can have a chance. The get in your face and make their chances. There is talent in the league like mr Bynum with the lakers. A real GM will make it happen and not wimp out.
Hms
August 27th, 2009
2:40 am
Youre orientation is not my business. I dont have any problem telling you are a worm. Apparently Im not the only one who see you for who you are.
What you and Ken do is your business.
I love to talk basketball with you but you arent that bright. I wont be responding to you any more because its a waste of time. Have fun emulating my moniker. It pretty much reveals what manner of man you are. Have a nice day.
v8dreaming
August 28th, 2009
1:39 am
the hawks will either barely make the playoffs or miss them entirely this year due to woodson’s inability to use his players properly. he’ll use the starting 5 plus zaza, joe smith and crawford all during the regular season and if/when it’s play off time, he’ll throw in the other guys and wonder why they aren’t playing well after barely playing all year.
v8dreaming
August 28th, 2009
1:47 am
oh and teague is the second coming of acie law. not a true point and will get shoved to the end of the bench.
cdog
August 28th, 2009
3:45 am
overall, i like the current hawks roster.the signing of joe smith gives the hawks versatility. a big body like siler would be a plus. josh smith is the key. he can give you that extra spark that most teams does not have especially if his offense has improved. he must play smart,. team defense is the key also. the hawks still need a steve kerr type shooter to help when teams like cleveland did in the playoffs starts ton double joe johnson. i think with a few more key additions the hawks can surprise alot of peiple this season.
Big Ray
August 28th, 2009
5:43 am
Uh, no. Teague is NOT the second coming of Law. Totally different kinds of players. Even Woody thinks so.
Big Ray
August 28th, 2009
5:51 am
cdog,
I think Crawford helps when it comes to double teaming Joe. Woody has to know that having that dude on the floor when Joe is out there from time to time will make it easier on Joe. And really, it also makes it easier on Crawford as well. Add Bibby to the mix, and you have your Steve Kerr (with a quicker release and better ball-handling skills).
There will be times where we can play “small” like that and just kill teams. Let’s hope that Woody figures out when that mismatch is available, and exploits it. This will help a lot, and let’s be honest…how many teams will capably defend a lineup that features three guys that can handle, one of which is a dead-eye shooter (especially when open), and two of which can penetrate and find other ways to score? Even Washington won’t want to match up with our guards.
Another trick to this will be mixing in the frontcourt well, so as to not keep it an all-perimeter game.
And I agree: Josh Smith is one of the biggest keys to this team. His maturity and on-court improvement can mean a lot. If you ask me, all of his on-court improvements will flow from his increased maturity. That includes his shot, his handle, defense, everything, if you think about it.