Message heard: Welcome to the 2010 season
See this flag? It's not that the Braves don't want another one. It's just not Frank Wren's highest priority right now. (AJC photo)
Two years ago at this time, when the Braves were coming off a non-playoff season and so many of us believed it had to be some aberration, the team’s front office had a similar delusion.
“We thought, ‘This is our opportunity. We have the assets to get arguably the best offensive player in the game — let’s make it happen, let’s go for it,” Frank Wren recalled of the Mark Teixeira trade. “Obviously, things didn’t work out.”
The ripple effects of that deal — five prospects for a star first baseman who led them to third- and fourth-place finishes — were still being felt Friday.
This was Wren’s second trade deadline as general manager since taking over for John Schuerholz (who pushed the button on the Teixeira deal). At no time has he been tempted to repeat an all-or-nothing deal.
He showed it by his actions this week. He confirmed it with his words.
Wren hasn’t given up on 2009. But 2010 ranks as a higher priority.
Whether you agree with that position, just don’t expect the message to come through during ticket commercials.
“There are times when you say, ‘We’re going all in,” Wren said. “This isn’t one of those times. We’re not at that point right now.”
Casey Kotchman for Adam LaRoche. It’s the trade that didn’t move mountains. It may or may not move the Braves in the standings.
In short, the Braves reacquired LaRoche more for his past than his present. He has a little more power than Kotchman and a history of getting hot in the second half. That’s nice, but it doesn’t mean he’s a better player today. Fact is, right now he’s not. He has more home runs (13-6) than Kotchman, but he’s hitting a career-low .248, which is 34 points less than Kotchman (.282). (In the past 22 games, Kotchman also was hitting .333 with four homers, 13 RBI and a .528 slugging percentage). Defensively, they’re a push.
If you reacted to this trade with a shrug, Wren understands. It’s a little roll of the dice.
“We’re banking on what [LaRoche] has done before,” he said. “We’ve got to find power where we can get it because we don’t have that stereotypical home-run hitter.”
The 2009 playoff hopes are not dead. They’re just kind of caught in traffic, and October may start without them. It’s a seven-team wild-card, pileup, and these things are impossible to predict.
This is when it’s difficult to be a general manager. The competitive side of you says, “Do something. Win now.” The other side says, “Sit on your hands. Be patient.”
Two weeks ago, Chipper Jones said that while it was clear the front office had made improvements to the roster, “we’ve got our eyes toward next year and the year after, and whatever comes this year is gravy.”
Wren has never hid from that perception.
“I think we’ve been pretty clear about that, even going back to spring training: We think our best days are ahead,” he said. “The level of talent we have in the minor-league system and [the talent] we have that’s getting close, is going to improve our club. Whether it’s in 2010 or 2011, we think we’re going to be better. To that end, those players that we’ve identified who are part of that improvement process, we’re not going to trade — even if it’s to improve this year and make us a few games better.”
They demoted the rookie center fielder, Jordan Schafer, because he showed he wasn’t ready. They traded the right fielder, Jeff Francoeur, because they didn’t think he ever would recover, and they weren’t about to give him a raise after the season. Martin Prado for Kelly Johnson — that was just manna from heaven.
But those changes were about trying to salvage the season, not elevating it to something special.
They tried that two years ago. Didn’t work.
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191 comments Add your comment
Steve Carter
July 31st, 2009
8:44 pm
I remember when the Braves were like this year’s Washington Nationals…any hint of a playoff race is fun for me.
Steve Carter
July 31st, 2009
8:44 pm
can’t believe I am first
Jeff Schultz
July 31st, 2009
8:51 pm
Steve — you’ll be getting your certificate in the mail in four-to-six weeks.
"Chef" Tim Dix
July 31st, 2009
8:57 pm
Made it thru the deadline with pitching stacked up like cord wood. Pay roll could actually go down next year and the team be 20 games better.
"Chef" Tim Dix
July 31st, 2009
8:59 pm
And if they save some money, for goodness sakes can they get Tommy Hanson a uni that fits?
"Chef" Tim Dix
July 31st, 2009
9:03 pm
I mean he looks like he is wearing a sack full of cats.
"Chef" Tim Dix
July 31st, 2009
9:04 pm
Four consecutive post!
"Chef" Tim Dix
July 31st, 2009
9:05 pm
With six do I get an egg roll?
Jeff Schultz
July 31st, 2009
9:15 pm
“Chef” — Don’t know about eggroll but you get my unwavering gratitude. … And I’ll check with Hanson about his uni.
richbrave
July 31st, 2009
9:28 pm
JEFF:
You and I postulated about the possibilities of the BRAVES’ participation in October festivities before I went on vacation. Then the BRAVES got hot, while I was away in the sunny CARIBBEAN. Now they seem to be settling back into the June mode. I’m still of the mind that they miss this year. but will be more formidable in 2010. Are you still with me?
Sonny Clusters
July 31st, 2009
9:30 pm
We was glad Adam came back to the team because he is a hunter and will go huntin’ with Chipper and keep Chipper fit from walking around huntin’ little animals to kill. Jeff, have you ever been huntin’ with them?
Jeff Schultz
July 31st, 2009
9:39 pm
RichBrave — I am with you. Obviously we have to see what changes are made this winter. But I do feel good about 2010.
Sonny — I’m not a huntin’ type. But if Frenchy asked me to go huntin’ with him like I’m sure he did in old days with you, I would go. I will bring the Yoo-hoos.
Chris
July 31st, 2009
9:40 pm
Jeff,
I am very happy to see that my inadvertently “repeated” morning questions were the basis of an evening column!
j brave
July 31st, 2009
9:46 pm
well, the white flag is out.
j brave
July 31st, 2009
9:47 pm
it took half a season to get rid of two .250 hitters and one day to and another.
j brave
July 31st, 2009
9:49 pm
what was it that cost wren his last gm job?
Bad Beat
July 31st, 2009
9:51 pm
LaRoche’s swing has more holes than swiss cheese at a firing range.
moboman
July 31st, 2009
10:04 pm
What was this about? what a horrible move. We gave up something and got back the nothing we got rid of once already. Didnt take Boston long to figure him out. Bad move Frank.
Ken Stallings
July 31st, 2009
10:07 pm
I like this trade. But for the reasons you listed the first reason is because we’re not loading the truck with the farm talent and shipping it elsewhere.
However, I think LaRouche can help this year. Kotchman was a good glove but too often his mental game was lacking. His boner failing to cover first on a clear grounder to second in last night’s game at Florida was the latest example of many.
The Braves are not but a few games out of the wildcard chase. So, even if the Phillies sprint to the finish, the Braves still have a shot. If they make the playoffs they can be a dangerous team.
However, I like the chemistry for 2010. Evidence is that for the last two seasons the Braves have made steady if small improvement. If next off season the Braves can land a power hitter at first base then it might put them over the top. Move Kawakami to the bullpen and give me a starting rotation of Vasquez, Hanson, Hudson, Lowe, and Jurjenns and I think the Braves can win the division.
I’m willing to be patient if necessary to see that happen.
Sonny Clusters
July 31st, 2009
10:10 pm
Like Mrs. Cleaver used to say, “Ward, don’t be so hard on the Beaver.” Why is everybody so hard on LaRoche? It ain’t his fault that Norton and KJ and them are Bobby’s favorites like him. Take all three and try to get a runner in from 3rd and that runner will still be standing there long after them boys have gone home to go huntin’. Jeff, YooHoos is a Yankee drink from up in New Jersey. When we was playing ball together and huntin’ we would go down to the Dairy Queen for a Mister Misty. My favorite was the blueberry but it turned my mouth a funny color. Jeff always liked fruity drinks and would sometimes wear his special hitting underpants when he drank ‘em.
Last Cracker in East Point
July 31st, 2009
10:11 pm
I wish the Braves would sign more Eskimos. They are an underappreciated segment of the baseball population.
Sonny Clusters
July 31st, 2009
10:12 pm
They was lucky underpants but Jeff called ‘em his hittin’ pants. Coach told us to just leave him alone.
pete nose
July 31st, 2009
10:15 pm
Call the extermator the roach is back.
Larry Orange
July 31st, 2009
10:17 pm
Well, somebody forgot to hide the phone from Frank again and he goes and makes a trade just to make one. Kotchman had just started to hit when ,boom, Wren strikes again. Has anybody noticed that Franceur is hitting over .300? Im still scratching my head on this deal ? 2010?
kcob95
July 31st, 2009
10:27 pm
If I’m correct, isn’t Laroche’s contract up this year? That would free up some cash along with the movement of Garret Anderson, Kelly Johnson, and Matt Diaz. I really think we do much better that diaz and Johnson. As for Garret Anderson, well he is a professional hitter, but I don’t think he will stick around as he’s shown that he has something left in the tank. I believe he will move back to the AL.
kcob95
July 31st, 2009
10:28 pm
If Kelly Johnson’s error against Florida was not enough of a reason to send him down or get rid of him, then bobby and wren should have their heads examined by PETA.
Techfan
July 31st, 2009
10:31 pm
This trade was made cause Adam is in the last year of his contract and Casey had 2 more years left! The Braves are betting on Freeman being ready next year , so that is why this move was made!
moboman
July 31st, 2009
10:34 pm
“Kotchman was a good glove but too often his mental game was lacking. His boner failing to cover first on a clear grounder to second in last night’s game at Florida was the latest example of many.”
Laroche has no mental game, and that error was not Kotchmans, it was the pitchers for not being at first.
LAC
July 31st, 2009
10:34 pm
Why does this town have the WORST GM’s in pro sports ?
wren is a complete joke, don waddell should have been gone in 2002 and the hawks guy is another clown… Why do we put up with guys like this ?
Larry Orange
July 31st, 2009
10:37 pm
LaRoche’s contract is up this year, but was Kotchman’s? Im still not understanding this? I see they got shut out on a three-hitter.
Yunel Asscobar
July 31st, 2009
10:39 pm
I like this trade because LaRoche likes me. He knows what a great player I am. I like Jeff’s lucky underpants; they fit me real nice. Before he was traded, he would let me wear them. We would switch during the 7th inning stretch. I have more rbi in his lucky underpants than in my own. I always play great, but even play better wearing Jeff’s underpants. I wouldn’t have missed the hit and run sign a couple of weeks ago, if I had been wearing his underpants. I like hunters too. I llke Yoo-hoos. Martin Prado and I play Yoo-Hoo every night night after the game.
what goes around
July 31st, 2009
10:40 pm
Braves will be back in the thick of it next year. Sign one big power hitter in the off season(the money should be there). Give Heyward and Freeman a shot and look out.
Starting rotation will be as good as any in majors. That rotation is what will keep us in the wild card race this year.
Jeff Schultz
July 31st, 2009
10:53 pm
Chris — You have assignment editor potential.
Kcob95, Larry –I think Kotchman has two years left but reconfirm with DOB. There’s no guarantee LaRoche will be back either since his contract’s up and he makes pretty big money right now (7 mill)
Reid Adair
July 31st, 2009
10:54 pm
Banking on what LaRoche has done in the past? Good grief, Jeff. You did more research comparing LaRoche now to LaRoche then.
This is not a noticeable improvement at all. But, with Frank Wren, I really am not surprised.
MOOKSTER
July 31st, 2009
10:55 pm
JIM POWELL IS A MORON… FOR AN INNING YESTERDAY POWELL TOLD U WHAT A GENIUS WREN IS… ALL THE MOVES HE DIDN’T MAKE AND ALL THE MOVES HE MADE… GREAT… THE GENIUS CREATED A .500 CLUB… WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF BUILDING A .500 TEAM? GUT THE ENTIRE TEAM WITH THE EXCEPTION OF TOMMY HANSON AND BRIAN McCANN AND START OVER…HOPEFULLY IF HE IS THE GENIUS THAT POWELL TOLD US THAT WREN IS… IN 3 OR 4 YEARS THEY WILL BE RELOADED…
Yunel Asscobar
July 31st, 2009
11:02 pm
I am conflicted. I generally don’t like bloggers who type in CAPS, but I agree with Mookster – Powell is a moron. Through in Chip Carey and you have two morons; or is it moroni? Moroney? They don’t talk about my great plays enough. Like Eskimos, I too, feel underappreciated.
Jeff Schultz
July 31st, 2009
11:20 pm
Mookster — I didn’t hear the commentary so I won’t make a judgment one way or the other. But I’m sure you know that team broadcasters generally are going to side with the team. They’re either paid directly by the team or they’re paid by the station who is a business partner of the team, which is almost the same thing.
todd
July 31st, 2009
11:32 pm
LaRoche has to be an improvement over the choker Kotchman. Now if they would get rid of auto-out Johnson and bring up Conrad we might have a chance at respectability. Norton needs to find another line of work also.
jim
July 31st, 2009
11:39 pm
Jeff Schulz, Wren traded Renteria for Jurrjens.
Johnny DangerDawg
August 1st, 2009
12:00 am
Jeff,
How is this move going to help the Braves in 2010? They traded a decent 1st basemen for a guy who will probably play elsewhere in 2010. Do you think the Braves are planning to go after a more talented (and more expensive) free agent 1st basemen this winter? Were they worried about Kotchman’s 2010 durability?
andrewknight
August 1st, 2009
12:24 am
Hey–let’s do something, anything that shows the fans that we are doing more than boiling peanuts during office hours…to keep the 4-5k walk up crowd interested, Wren does a trade to appease a few buddies in Beantown and little else…this move is simply uninspiring.
Money
August 1st, 2009
12:35 am
This is all about money. If the Braves weren’t so cheap, we would have Tex, or another big name player similar. The highest paid Brave gets 15 mil a year. Even Todd Helton makes more than that. If the Braves want power, they need to loosin up the wallet.
scottbravesfan
August 1st, 2009
12:42 am
Braves are still going to win the wild card. The Giants and Rockies aren’t that good. The Braves just need to get everyone healthy. Now Yunel and Prado are out. The Kotchman trade was just to clear a spot for Freedie Freeman to start the year at 1st.
scottbravesfan
August 1st, 2009
12:43 am
Johnny Dangerdog,
I assume you have internet access, go to Google, type in Freddie Freeman. He’ll be our first baseman next year.
PMC
August 1st, 2009
1:11 am
Frank Wren has done a hell of a job. He can’t win games. He can only within the parameters of the budget set out to put the best team the budget can afford out on the field. The budget is set by the owner. He moved mountains to rebuild a broken down aging pitching staff last off season. Mission accomplished. Fairly average bullpen and lineup but it’s more cost effective to scout the right players then you can build a team that looks much more like the Phillies and much less like the Yankees who spend more time gettting it wrong than getting it right.
The Phillies built thier roster up over several years and were rewarded last year with a title. Frank Wren needs and deserves patience. Of course there are holes. Chipper can’t play at a high level forever, Johnson is a trainwreck in the field at 2nd base. 1st is a project. The outfield is a mess right now. At least one closer will leave in FA and the rest of the bullpen is wretched at times. All this can be fixed just not at one time or in one year. He’s made decent moves so far but there are precious few superstars on this team and you can’t win without them. The only way to realistically get them on your team and make title runs is to draft them and that takes time to get them ready for the majors. We have to be patient with this team like all the other teams in town. He’s done quite a good job as GM thus far and they do have a better than average scouting department, I just wish we could steal a few of the brilliant minds that scout for the Marlins.
Fred Claus
August 1st, 2009
1:34 am
FF will not be ready in 2010 not even in September. He is a year behind Heyward in terms of polish.
He is a raw player who will spend the whole season in AAA next year.
So what will they Braves do in 2010 at 1B. LaRoche would be a horrific mistake b/c he will MIA until late July with his bat.
Wren has an eye towards 2011 but he isn’t going to say that now. Prepare for .500 baseball next year with one of Hudson or Vaz gone by this December.
Johnny DangerDawg
August 1st, 2009
1:51 am
scottbravesfan,
Thanks for the info. The web seems to support Fred Claus’s claims the FF won’t be ready until 2011. Even if FF does turn out to be ready for the Braves in 2010, why not keep Kotchman for now and trade him after this season for some prospects (which might eventually help the Braves) instead of trading for LaRoche (whose contract is about to expire)?
AKT163
August 1st, 2009
1:56 am
Jeff, It’s unlikely that the Braves will keep LaRoche around next year. Do you think they plan on bringing up Freddie Freeman next year or do you think they’ll have Barbaro Canizares be the first baseman till Freeman is ready?
Coach (2010 or Bust)
August 1st, 2009
2:13 am
When I heard about this trade I was watching the ML baseball channel and those guys were making fun of it. I can’t say I blame them as LaRoche was the guy we started with in the first place before the Teixeira debacle went down.
Personally, I’m just shaking my head in disbelief. If anybody thinks this swap of first basemen is gonna make the Braves any better, you are sadly in need of professional medical help. Kotchman for LaRoche is a wash, nothing more.
Michael
August 1st, 2009
2:29 am
I swear, the Braves have become like watching Richie Rich work his money on all the attractive girls while you’re trying to save up for some nice gift for just one on your $10/hour salary. When will an actual person buy this team again so we don’t have to see salary dump after salary dump?
This is especially insulting after trading Francoeur away. Since the trade, he’s hitting .288 with a few dingers and a bunch of RBIs. Ryan Church is hitting .222. Oh, and the Braves gave the Mets money to balance salaries. After that stupid move, you bring in a guy with a worse average than Francoeur and hope he gets hot?
Maybe it’s just me, but management needs a little cleaning up.
Ron
August 1st, 2009
2:39 am
I think we are opening up a place at first for Freeman next year. I saw the guy play 15 times last year at Rome, and the guy can’t catch the ball. He can hit, but we need someone over there with a glove to handle the wild throws that Escobar, and the rest of the infield, make. Freeman will have to improve in a hurry to be ready to play the position next year as he would drop easy throws and fielding a grounder was always an adventure. I think the better move is to move Chipper to first, let Prado play third and find a leadoff guy to play second base.
Robards
August 1st, 2009
2:57 am
So what do you do after this year–bring back Scott Thorman. Kotchman wasn’t that good, but he was decent and affordable. Rochey might hit 2 or 3 more HRS, but he’ll strike out much more as well. Who plays first next year? This move makes little sense.
abudefdef
August 1st, 2009
3:02 am
Let’s wait and see what Adam does…maybe he gets happy to be back in Atlanta, and that translates to a beastly second half? He is known to improve after the All Star break, and maybe being back in the ATL will fuel that with a little added kick! Personally I think the Braves are in great position for the wild card, and still could get into the NL East mix, being only 8 games back with 9 games left vs the Phillies…keep the faith Bravos fans! Keep the Faith!
DirtyDawg
August 1st, 2009
3:15 am
Dollars to donuts Kotchman ends up with better numbers (based on the number of games he gets to play in) than LaRoche. My guess is that Kotchman is thankful to be on a true pennant contender and outahere.
DerrickT
August 1st, 2009
3:26 am
Last nights game serves further proof that this team is no more than a .500 ballclub. Gee, how can Jason Schmidt looks so horrible against the Marlins, and looks like Cy Young when he pitched against us. Getting blanked 5-0 was too much to bear.
I’m sure Bobby with find solace in the number of balls that were hit hard but directly at someone. Bobby has a way of finding something good out of crap. Wonder what he would have said if he was with General Custer or Napolean at Waterloo? Face it my fellow Braves fans, it’s time to switch gears to the college football and the NFL –
Go Falcon, Dawgs, and Jackets ! !
abudefdef
August 1st, 2009
3:38 am
Derrick…37 (?) games left against the NL East…Braves aren’t out of it yet…remember what happened when they rose up and grabbed the Giants oh so many years ago?
curtis jones
August 1st, 2009
4:52 am
Well, obviously Kotchman was unhappy here. Maybe he’ll be happier on the bench at Fenway.
Dr. Jesse
August 1st, 2009
5:01 am
Jeff,
Who is Norton sleeping with? Wrens ugly cousin? How three pitchers have a better BA than he and they send him up as a PH. Yuck!! One tenth of the time help gets a hit. Better hitters are sent down with much better averages.
Who pulled the trigger on this? Bobby had ‘The Roach” shipped out for his repeated ADD actions.
The Braves never score after 5 innings unless they are in the lead. No bench. Huddy, Javy, Hannie, Jurggie, Lowe boy are a tremendous rotation and the Braves need to improve power in outfield at first and a new hitting coach. Since Terry’s arrival the Braves have steadily lost HR and RBI totals. Where is Chambliss when you need him?
abudefdef
August 1st, 2009
5:44 am
Well, getting LaRoche will improve the power numbers (a little), and give the opposing pitchers a little more to think about when pitching to whoever is hitting in front of him.
When Hudson and Infante come back, that will be like 2 trades, improving the team, and if Wren would just dump Norton and plug in Brooks, we’d be good…
I like Greg Norton, but if ANYONE needs a change of scenery right now, it’s him.
GO BRAVES!!!
DamYankee
August 1st, 2009
5:52 am
??? LaRoche for Kotchman? Unbelievable! Has Casey made an error yet this year? How many points higher is his BA than Adam’s?
Here’s one for the “Dream On” column: Convince BMac to play first, put D Ross behind the plate. I love McCann but he’s possibly the worst defensive catcher in the league. How many catchable/blockable balls have gone to the backstop this year? A catcher should be able to call for a change-up in the dirt at 0-2 with a runner at third and the pitcher should be able to trust him to catch/block it, but Mac tries the fancy glove work, ball to the screen, runners advance. Don’t they wear all that equipment for a reason?
And in conclusion, Jeff, where do all the geniuses on this site come from? More know-it-all morons than a Fox News Christmas party.
hop
August 1st, 2009
6:08 am
This is another non-event for frank wrenn so the question is why?
you are trading a 288 hitter for a 246 and knotchman is a great defensive first basemen.
the trade makes no sense at all,but this is frank wrenn where nothing ever does.
when does the braves get rid of wrenn?
the braves had their run and now they are sliding further away from phillies and the wild card.
thank GOD we have college football just around the corner and one does not ahve to worry about either frank or the braves!
abudefdef
August 1st, 2009
6:21 am
Everyon is missing the fact that LaRoche has made ONE count it, ONE error this year at first…I know Kotchman hasn’t made any, but LaRoche is just as good defensively in the field (again ONE error…ONE WHOLE ERROR) and will provide a little more threat in the slugging percentage arena…NOT a bad move by Wren IMHO
DamYankee
August 1st, 2009
6:29 am
There goes another one.
long timer
August 1st, 2009
6:44 am
Adam LaRoche is fine, but if it weren’t for the worst trade in baseball history (Tex-Elvis-Harrison-Salty-?), Salty would be an all star first baseman by now. It was meant to be and the short sighted Braves simply blew it!
I’m still mad about it
ATLfan15
August 1st, 2009
6:47 am
I just don’t understand getting rid of Kotchman and bringing back LaRoche….like an earlier post said, this is just a big white flag being raised on the 2009 season by the Braves’ front office.
And I wish Cox would stop using Norton as a pinch hitter; I can see him being released in the offseason anyway. And why did they send Conrad back down? It’s hard to keep the faith, as abudefdef suggests, when the club is making moves like these…..oh well, like Cubs fans have said for over 100 years, “Wait till next year”……and it looks like that is exactly what Braves fans will be doing now.
abudefdef
August 1st, 2009
6:54 am
I’m not a fan of Norton either, and I think if Wren were to release Norton (maybe we can get one of the locker room doors to bait him into punching it?) and call Brooks back up, I think that would show the fans that his mentality is in the “We CAN win now” mode.
Keeping Norton and his abyssmal batting average is just not a good baseball decision. He as stunk it up all season. I know they like to have veterans on the bench, but all they have to do is take a look at what Brooks did while he was here, plus, Brooks is 29, has been in the minors for a decade, and I think has a LOT to prove (which he started to prove while he was here).
RELEASE NORTON! CALL UP BROOKS!
the fans have spoken…well, at least one fan has (not that it’ll make a big difference)
gary
August 1st, 2009
6:59 am
I’m thinking the reason for this trade is that Bobby had a really cute nickname for Adam LaRoche… “Roachy”. I can’t remember him using any cute nicknamess Casey Kotchman. If the Braves (ie, Bobby Cox) would embrace a little more “small ball”, maybe they would not get into situations where the only way out is a 3-run homer. How many lead off doubles have the Braves stranded? I’m presumming they do count single runs scored in the early innings, so there’s really no need to wait till the 8th or 9th for the dramatic Big Blast.
jimmya
August 1st, 2009
7:00 am
hey let WREN get rid of some of the other dead weight bring up the kids now other teams do give them a shot now it cant hurt for them to get a taste early start with norton kjohnson prabo even diaz trade and get what we can for kawakami medlen church lets start all over these players have been here doing nothing for to long
Ron E.
August 1st, 2009
7:00 am
Are you seriously still whining about the Teixeira trade? Let’s look at some numbers for Tex during his stay in Atlanta.
2007 17 HR / 56 RBI / 1.020 OPS
2008 20 HR / 78 RBI / .902 OPS
Clearly Tex was a bust for Atlanta and if we just had Salty back with his .291 OBP and .374 SLG or Andrus with his .319 OBP and .364 SLG we’d be leading the division. NOT!
falcon
August 1st, 2009
7:04 am
You heard it here. The Braves finish 3rd with Kotchman. The Braves finish 3rd with Roachie. You’re right on Jeff. The Braves have turned the page and are gazing at 2010 right now.
Chief Nock A Homa
August 1st, 2009
7:19 am
LaRoche for Kotchman?? After waiting for Casey to finally start hitting – he does – and then we trade for a guy that Bobby had issues with for lack of concentration, and who is still trying to hit this year… Forget about him getting hot over the second part of each season – we already had that with Kotchman – he had finally gotten hot!
Second issue – wasn’t it Wren who said we have a lineup with no true 40 homer guys, but a lot who will hit 20??
What happened to that plan?? It was finally beginning to pay off as the Braves got hot for a couple of weeks with Kotchman being a big part of it, and then trade him for LaRoche??
I like all FW’s other moves, but this one just makes no sense and seems to change course mid-stream – at the wrong time…
Chief Nock A Homa
August 1st, 2009
7:21 am
Gary – at your 6:59 a.m. post…
Bobby had a great nick name for Kotchman:
Crothchy!
It just was never distinguishable tot he fans that BC was talking about Casey…
Sonny Clusters
August 1st, 2009
7:23 am
Well, maybe they all can start the season next year with lucky underpants. We was trying to remember which writer it was at the AJC that wrote that story about lucky underpants.
When we was playing ball together it didn’t matter what underpants we was wearing because if we didn’t do what Coach said, we was out of the game and on the bench.
We had a hitting coach that also taught some classes and ran a homeroom and study hall. He would tell us not to swing until the pitcher threw a strike and it didn’t matter what kind of underpants we was wearing.
Smooth
August 1st, 2009
7:25 am
Why would the Braves get rid of Kotchman, for six second delay? We need bring Conrad up and move Kelly.
Nativebird
August 1st, 2009
7:33 am
Has this franchise has totally lost its mind? This is so sickening. All IN or Laroche? Wren is a joke. With the abundance of starting pitching we have with Huddy coming back? No one is talking 5 or 6 prospects, there IS no Texiera out there. But LaRoche? give me a break. They are going back to the guy that WAS the signal to the beginning of the end of the great Braves teams. I’m no Kotchman fan, but they just replaced bad with worse! This is it? THIS is the big move at the deadline? Cash it in boys. Games over.
That’s it for me. It is time. Trade Chipper, get it over with. Bobby needs to retire. Wren needs to go. In fact, Sell the darn team. They need new everything, especially ownership. This team is officially back to 1987 status and before. How disappointing. LaRoche was a bust, still IS a bust, and will ALWAYS be a bust. I can’t believe this.
NCBravesFan
August 1st, 2009
7:34 am
ATLFan15 – most likely, it was Casey becoming arbitration eligible this offseason that caused the trade. Casey isn’t a bad player, but he was going to get a salary increase that the Braves likely judged to be too much for them relative to the production. And if you don’t re-sign him, you get no draft pick compensation.
By trading for LaRoche, who will be a free agent at the end of the year, they might be able to get a draft pick if they lose him (don’t quote me on that point, because I’m not sure how LaRoche grades out as a free agent, and that grade determines if or how many picks the Braves might get.)
As it relates to this year, if LaRoche gets hot and the Braves grab the wild card, that’s gravy. But if you think about it, Casey was never going to carry this team on his shoulders. Adam probably won’t either.
abudefdef
August 1st, 2009
7:35 am
gary-playing small ball means the team needs speed, and the Braves have…ummmm….let me think a minute…hmmmmmm…that’s right, we have no one on the team who can tear up the base paths. Getting someone who is a legitimate power threat will alter the way Chipper and McCann get pitched to, which will allow them to hit more doubles and homers.
jimmya-you must be smokin crack if you suggest we should trade Prado. He’s the sparkplug that CONSISTENLY sparks!
bob
August 1st, 2009
7:39 am
your all a bunch of fair weather fans the season is not even done yet and all you people can talk about is how its over and were gonna have a great team in 2010 what a load of crap you call yourself a journalist but your just a guy with a bunch of half hearted opinions
gary
August 1st, 2009
7:41 am
Small ball doesn’t always mean speed. It’s doing the little things, like advancing runners, productive outs, taking advantage of things. Whenever the Braves do something like that, the announcers just go gaga over how the Braves are playing “ABC” baseball, but for the most part, they are still in that 1990’s Three Run Homer mentality, and it’s just not coming that often.
bob
August 1st, 2009
7:42 am
SHULTZ = MOORE
Whitey Bored
August 1st, 2009
7:43 am
In stead of pitching Kawakami on his regular turn, just give the players an unpaid day off and forfeit the game. You save money, get the players some rest and get the same result.
George
August 1st, 2009
7:45 am
I am waiting for the day when I read Wren has been traded for another loser GM. What other kind of bum ..deal is he going to make? ITS TIME FOR THE PEOPLE TO STOP GOING TO THE GAMES, HIT THE ORGANIZATION WHERE IT HURTS. You can see it now tickets are 2 for 1. They are doing anything they can to get people into the stands. This is a joke organization, LaRoche, Please…. What are they doing? Wren needs performance enhancing drugs…for that matter we all do…and why is Norton still in the Major Leagues? with a .134 BA? My goodness, a blind man can hit with a higher average…for that matter a dead one can too…What a waste of time, money and a roster spot….WAKE UP FRONT OFFICE, PUT A WINNER ON THE FIELD OR GET OUT OF TOWN..
abudefdef
August 1st, 2009
7:47 am
gary-don’t lump everyone into fair weather fans…I’ve been supporting the Braves since 1988, when they were LOSING 90+ games a season…and I’m supporting them now…I believe with the rotation, and the lineup, especially getting Hudson and Infante back, they can contend not only for the wild card, but also for the NL East pennant…but we do need to drop Norton…
on another note-Frenchy has hit .288 with the Mets, has 3 HRs and 17 RBIs in 17 games, Church has 14 games, .222 avg, 1 HR, 4 RBIs…Wren made a BAD decision on that trade—Frenchy’s going to end up sparkling, just like Jermaine Dye (remember when we had him?)
TOM
August 1st, 2009
7:50 am
had 2 extra tickets to braves game last night and couldn’t give them away… i had to pay the scalper to take them off my hands…
jim
August 1st, 2009
7:57 am
I can remember how happy I was when the Braves canned LaRoche the first time. Now the only thing that would make me happier is to see Wren gone. Frank, your a quitter! So please, do what comes naturally and quit.
abudefdef
August 1st, 2009
7:58 am
TOM, doesn’t that just make ya mad? I mean, I think that if the fans that come to the game are going to allow Yankees and Red Sox and Cubs and Mets fans to make it akin to an away game for the Braves, then they just shouldn’t show up…come to the game to cheer on the Braves and jeer the bad guys (everyon else)…don’t come to the game to talk on your cell phone, or whatnot, come watch the game and support the team!
Whatever happened to McCann’s Cans? are they back?
DamYankee
August 1st, 2009
8:04 am
“We had a hitting coach that also taught some classes and ran a homeroom and study hall. He would tell us not to swing until the pitcher threw a strike and it didn’t matter what kind of underpants we was wearing.”
Truth, Sonny. I’m sure TP preaches this constantly, and Chipper backs him up, but as soon as one of these boneheads hits a dinger it’s all out the window (see A. Jones). BTW, all you Chipper whiners, look at the freakin’ numbers, best switch hitter in MLB history, maybe the smartest hitter in baseball today (bite me, Pujols), and he’s worked his ass off to become a better than average 3rd baseman from a defensive bust his first few seasons. I only hope the Braves can keep him around as hitting coach after his current contract runs out.
GT
August 1st, 2009
8:13 am
This has been the best sports team in the history of this town. It is still managed by the same people that made it the best sport’s team. There is a gap here mainly due to the confusion of ownership that we are feeling. I think we might have lost our rhythm a little, but we have it back. We have great pitching, we are stocked with talent all through our minor leagues. This team now is not playing bad ball, and no one can say it is not a much better team than last year’s. Another problem we have is the division has improved and not just sitting there letting us dominate. We will climb back into it and at least we are heading the right direction unlike a Pittsburgh to name one of many.
Chief Nock A Homa
August 1st, 2009
8:24 am
abudefdef….
So what your saying is that if Frenchy had not been traded, we’d have a .288/3hr/17 RBI in the last 17 games guy in RF now???
Don’t you think that your thought process on this is flawed, and that maybe Frenchy started hitting after 2+ years of not hitting BECAUSE of the change of scenery???
He was given every opportunity here – he NEEDED the change to be able to become the player that he has the ability to be…
Rest at night knowing that he would still be floundering here if he had not been traded…
abudefdef
August 1st, 2009
8:33 am
Chief…we sent him away after he had a 3/4 night with 3 doubles, and he was 5 for his last 13…I just think they sent a struggling OF for a struggling OF, and should have held onto him…my opinion, he will end being in the All Star game multiple times, and we will end up with NOTHING to show for it…Wren made a lousy decision with his Frenchy’s talent
ATLfan15
August 1st, 2009
8:34 am
To NCBravesFan: I understand your points and that’s why the trade still doesn’t make sense to me (bad for just as bad?). Your explanation only further proves my ‘white flag’ comment about this season. I like your comment about how LaRoche will grade as a free agent; we may not get the picks/compensation if he comes in low on the list.
To bob, who is ranting about the fans and their complaints: I am NOT a fair weather fan. In fact, I’ve been a Braves fan through thick (and VERY thin) for over 30 years. Every fan has an opinion about their team and its trades, so suck it up or move on to another blog.
Atticus
August 1st, 2009
8:35 am
4 years and no playoffs. They keep waiting for “next year” but in that talk they keep counting on two AA players. Classic.
Frank Wren did great with the pitchers, terrible with the everyday lineup.
mcgannfan
August 1st, 2009
8:38 am
2010 is a joke if Kelly Johnson is still with the team. Cox and his pets—ridiculous. Conrad is far superior to KJ but Bobby LIKES KJ.
tis stupid and 2010 will another losing season as long as Cox is in charge…babying the likes of KJ and Francouer should have been gone long before he left.
almost painful to watch this team. I was around in the 80’s and glorious nineties. sort of spoils ya.
Kotchman for Roache…………ya gotta be kidding me!
We do like to get re-treads don’t we? ridiculous
The Grinch
August 1st, 2009
8:42 am
What GM in baseball could completely rebuild last year’s wretched team into a WS contender in one offseason without adding payroll? It looks like he’ll do it in two, which makes him one of the better people at his position in the sport. Very few do more with less. Maybe the last trade will pan out, maybe not. But to dismiss everything he’s done to this point is short-sighted at the least. If he had Minaya’s or Amaro’s payroll, we’d be coasting through this division. Give the man a chance.
abudefdef
August 1st, 2009
8:50 am
AMEN Grinch! (although I still diagree with bailing on Frenchy)
Atticus, spot on about the rotation—Kenshin will be ok, and we will have someone to trade at some point—6 starters and 5 spots, odd man out goes away…
GO BRAVES!!! 9 more games vs the Phillies…36? vs the NL East…NL East Pennant is REACHABLE!!!
Skeezix
August 1st, 2009
8:59 am
Yeah, forget 2009. We were a better team before this trade. LaRoche’s BA is .248 and Casey is at .282 (over .300 lately) and Casey is better defensively. Wren made this trade on the hope the Adam will get hot? This is proof again that Wren is not the man to get us to the promise land.
bull-gator
August 1st, 2009
9:01 am
Idiotic move. Sometimes it’s best to hold what you were dealt than to ask for another card. I see no upside to this whatsoever.
abudefdef
August 1st, 2009
9:02 am
You know, everyone is criticizing Wren for decisions he made with hitters, but what about the pitchers we got? So we didn’t get Burnett and Peavy, but we got Lowe and Vazquez—who would have how many more wins if they could have gotten a couple more runs per game…I agree with The Grinch, Wren can’t solve all the problems in one year, and just about everyone seems to be throwing in the towel! In the words of a tremendous actor in a fantastic movie, “Was it over when the Germans Bombed Pearl Harbor? H**L NO! And it ain’t over now!”
VHH
August 1st, 2009
9:11 am
I think the front office has done a good job…at least this year we are not going with a pitching lineup that is too old or too young. Rebuilding is tough.
Tim
August 1st, 2009
9:11 am
I am done with this ownership group and Frank Wren. I have been a Braves fan since I was 11yrs old and they moved to Atl. I am now 53 and this group of suits does not care about the fans. Why else would they trade for a dead weight like Adam La Lost,Kotchman was no world beater but he was better than this slug. They are to cheap to get us a legite player instead they piss money away on some Toyota import who could beat a decent college team and never goes more than 5 innings. They continue to support Bobby and his bungling staff who should have been gone a long time ago I still maintain that we won ONLY one WS in spite of BC. Its way past time to bring up the kids get some younger coaches say like Ned Yost and go play ball at least show us you give a damn.
don
August 1st, 2009
9:13 am
It is goodto seethat the stupidity of the Teixeira trade is finally being acknowledged in and around Atlanta. The rest of baseball has known it for a long time. Some,including me, assailed the trade before it was made. Some disasters should be obvious.
VHH
August 1st, 2009
9:14 am
btw…I was a Braves fan in the 60’s…when they were really, really bad except for Aaron and Neikro.
jimmya
August 1st, 2009
9:16 am
HOW MUCH DID wren OVERPAY for lowe who did he trade for vazquez how much for kawakami any wonder where the money went for a hitter
Braves Fan Since '66
August 1st, 2009
9:17 am
Wren sucks… Sign KAMAKAZE to a 3 year, $25M contract… What an albatross… He coukd have used that money to sign Adam Dunn… We’d be in 1st place if he had made that move… Then Wren goes and signs our singles hitting, often hurt 3rd baseman to 3 more years at $15M… Wren is paying Chipper like he’s an all-star power hitter, which he is not anymore… These 2 contracts will keep the Braves out of the playoffs for the forseeable future…
Chris
August 1st, 2009
9:19 am
I don’t think this is an eye for 2010, but possibly 2012 or 2013. Freeman isn’t going to be the starter next year. And by the time the next batch of kids are ready, Wren will make some other dumb move. It’s hard for me to even watch knowing that some dumb move or decision is just around the corner.
NCBravesFan
August 1st, 2009
9:19 am
ATLFan – I checked and it looks like there would not be any draft compensation possible for LaRoche. So it comes back to Casey not being the answer for this team in the long term.
And remember – Kotch batted out of the seven hole most of the time – he’s not a key to the offense. If the Braves win the wild card, it will be because of guys like McCann, Chipper, Yunel and McLouth. Subtracting Casey doesn’t change that.
Paddy
August 1st, 2009
9:20 am
LAC Who did the Hawks hire as GM and when? I must have heard the name but it did not stick.
chris from md
August 1st, 2009
9:27 am
Hi Jeff,
Good article but I’m not sure I totally agree. If 2010 was the main priority, wouldn’t they have dealt Gonzo, Soriano, and/or Vasquez for prospects?
Chris from MD
DMac
August 1st, 2009
9:27 am
Anyone who thinks the Braves have “a chance” this year, or any other year, with the same front office and manager, is delusional. They won’t win again until they completely clean house.
Braves Fan Since '66
August 1st, 2009
9:28 am
VVH, If you were a Braves fan in the Sixties you would remember guys like Joe Torre, Orlando Cepeda, Felix Milan, Rico Carty, Felipe Alou, and Dusty Baker to name a few. I seem to remember they made the playoffs in ‘69 as well. The city was so excited they rolled the television set into my classroom and let us watch the game against the Mutts.
DMac
August 1st, 2009
9:29 am
The smartest thing anyone could do, would be to start a “Boycott the Braves” movement, to force ownerships hand to make the long needed changes in the front office and management.
DMac
August 1st, 2009
9:31 am
However no one will, because people are cattle and will eat whatever the Braves feed them.
McCann Fan
August 1st, 2009
9:31 am
Mane I hat speling mestaks.
jimmya
August 1st, 2009
9:36 am
hey dont yall know all baseball wants is our money they dont care what we think then even charging to watch it on tv send more moey they say
jimmya
August 1st, 2009
9:38 am
not me
Gabron Salome
August 1st, 2009
9:38 am
Do any of you morons pay attention? They got rid of a mediocre first baseman and freed up salary for next year. Laroche, unless he goes on a tear will be gone next year and we’ll have Freeman in the spot. Norton, gone. KJ, gone. If you wanna rant about something, lets get together and get Brooksie back up to the majors, he has the fire a young ballclub needs.
Gabron Salome
August 1st, 2009
9:39 am
Atlanta GM’s are terrible hungh? I noticed you didnt put Dimitroff in that list of names.
abudefdef
August 1st, 2009
9:43 am
DMac…you obviously haven’t been to a home game…it’s like there’s already a boycott
Big Al
August 1st, 2009
9:45 am
Wish I had known they were waiting for next year I would have waited to buy tickets till next year.
Howard
August 1st, 2009
9:45 am
One more month to position for wild card. If not in any better position at that time then I want to see Freddie at first and Haywood in right. If Freddie and Haywood prove they need more time then Braves should try to trade for Juan Pierre and play him in right field and let him lead off. They need speed at the top. Braves should have a good starting pitcher to trade. Someone, whose contract runs soon and they can save some money. With JJ and TH the Braves have two outstanding young starters to be like the old days. The others aren’t bad either and the relief pitching is better than when they won divisions. Another idea is to see if they could get a great young third baseman like Zimmerman and move Chipper to first. The point is that the Braves are not far off from being division leaders again with a few good moves and some more development of young players.
Jeff, what do you know about Cody Johnson. He hits a lot of homers in the minors. Do the Braves consider him a prospect. I never hear about him. How far away is he.
jimmya
August 1st, 2009
9:46 am
dont they even charge to watch batting pratice lol
abudefdef
August 1st, 2009
9:46 am
If we want to start a movement, let’s start the “NORTON GONE, BROOKS UP” movement!
Lash La Rue
August 1st, 2009
9:55 am
Just one Rose will do!
AndyC
August 1st, 2009
10:03 am
Yet another reference to the Tex trade. You guys are really getting lazy. Get some new material.
Roja
August 1st, 2009
10:05 am
If we are looking forward to 2010, why don’t we release Gonzo, Moylan, Norton, Kawakame, KJ, and Diory and bring up some minor league prospects to take their place now! Or as Kawakami would say: 私達が2010年に先に見れば、don’なぜ; t私達はGonzo、Moylan、Norton、Kawakami、KJおよびDioryを解放し、彼らの場所を今取るためにあるマイナーリーグの見通しを持ち出す!
abudefdef
August 1st, 2009
10:07 am
All you Chipper Bashers—who is a better switch hitter in MLB history?
Acworthdon
August 1st, 2009
10:10 am
Can’t ever go back, only forwards now. So, I’m kinna like what we have now. I see guys trying hard
and fellas I have to tell ya, we’ve got good pitching. What with everything set up for the power hitters
today and we’ve only one, I still like our chances for the balance of this year and next too. That said,
I’m gonna go to the end of the limb and say we’ll be very close to the playoffs and should we arrive there the Bravos could be great in a pitching series!
abudefdef
August 1st, 2009
10:13 am
Everyone who is claiming we’re “looking to 2010″, don’t forget we have 9 games left vs the Phillies, and are 7-2 against them so far this year…36 (I believe) games left against the NL East…
IT AINT OVER!!!
GO BRAVES!!!
Mike Jordan
August 1st, 2009
10:14 am
Wren is very overmatched. Why trade Francouer for a player who is not as good, and a hometown favorite? They could have platooned him with Diaz. The Braves have not had a good hitting lineup since Andruw Jones left. Chipper is waning in his career and no big bats are showing up. Their pinch hitter of choice, Norton, is hitting below the Mendoza line. This is the big leagues- if your farm system has better players, bring them up. If you don’t have better players down on the farm, why isn’t the GM held responsible for the lack of talent?. The pitchers can’t do it all by themselves.
john
August 1st, 2009
10:29 am
You are right. Wren trades a 280 hitter and the guy caring the braves for the last two weeks for a guy that they didnt think much of in the past and have no intention of resigning. They trade for a center fielder who cant. make contact with the ball when it matters and cant throw. Time for the Braves to trade Wren and start over
Shadetree
August 1st, 2009
10:30 am
Salome,
Bringing up Conrad will not bring fire to the club. Coxie doesn’t want fire on the club. Trading Casey was a bad deal. You notice it didn’t take long for Boston to pull that trigger. If I was Casey I would rather be a bench player for the BoSox than a starter for the Braves. We better look to the future because the only people that want to play here are the kids in the minors. No vet wants to come here. Of course unless you’re Lowe and getting paid $15 mill.
Casey for LaRoache. What a dumb arse.
Reid in EAV
August 1st, 2009
10:32 am
As someone who attended his first Braves game in 1978 and has followed the team since then, I am deeply appreciate of the fact that we’re still in the mix. As someone else put it, for many many years we were the Pirates or Nationals of our day, and I don’t take over .500 baseball for granted. I’m just glad something’s at stake and the future is bright. I’ve no real reason to complain about Frank Wren yet — anyone who knows baseball realizes that he’s done a pretty amazing job with what he has to this point. Just compare this year’s starting rotation to what we had this time last year.
I realize such a positive attitude puts me out of step with the nonstop whining from the armchair experts in this forum. And you know what? I’m OK with that.
Scott B
August 1st, 2009
10:34 am
I hope Adam can belt a few big homers along the way. I’m not counting on it, though. I hate to see Kotchman go. He never made an error in a Braves uniform. Think about that. He was a Brave for exactly a year and did not commit an error. His bat was starting to get going, too. I wish him well in Boston.
tralfaz
August 1st, 2009
10:36 am
Hey, why don’t you re-run your column crowing about how great Pendleton was, because we had a brief display of offense!
Reid in EAV
August 1st, 2009
10:44 am
Rasheed, if Prince Fielder were available, I’m sure the Braves would love to have him. Ditto Ryan Howard or Jimmy Rollins. (Let’s not forget that one of the most anticipated prospects in the organization is Jason Heyward, an African-American currently ripping the cover off the ball at AA Mississippi. And didn’t we go out and get Garret Anderson in the spring after trying and failing to land Ken Griffey Jr.?)
The Braves may not be over the hump yet, but I’m pretty sure it’s not because they’re biased against capable African-American players. Methinks if they were, Braves VP Henry Aaron would have something to say about that.
At the end of the day, it has to be about talent in the most color-blind way possible — MLB clubs can’t afford to look at it any other way. If you can hit, field or pitch, it doesn’t matter what you look like or where you’re from.
Obama is my president, too, nevermind what color he is.
chipperchop
August 1st, 2009
10:50 am
Not that I’m suggesting that we make a Wild Card push, it’s possible, but very unlikely, I would like to point out one thing. While I don’t quite understand this move for LaRoche now, (Casey Kothcman is young, cheap, and a double machine under control for a couple more years, whereas Adam LaRoche is a Free Agent after this season), I think one thing is clear. Rochey can hit. I don’t really think it is fair to judge his numbers with the Pittsburg Pirates who were selling off all their stars one right after the other. McCann and Chipper haven’t had the quite the success they normally have this year, because there is very little protection in the lineup. I think this was clearly the case with LaRoche as well. I think LaRoche should find more success in Atlanta, with better hitters, and where he is happy and well liked than he did for the Pirates, who have been awful for years. Giving Kotchman away is a bit of a head scratcher. If Wren doen’t think we are going to the post season, I am not sure why we would bother with a trade like this. It opens a whole at first, unless LaRoche resigns, and then what happens when Freddi Freeman is ready to come up to the bigs? The only thing I can think, is I have heard quite a few rumors that Kotchman did not fit into the Braves Clubhouse. Maybe that is why he had to go. And if you think about it, Boston is planning on using him as a bench/late inning replacement guy.
Larry Orange
August 1st, 2009
10:52 am
As someone who’s been following the Braves since 1972, i do remember those Pirate, Nationals days well. We are headed in that direction again if we dont get some new blood in the front office. This trade made no sense whatsoever. Instead of Niekro and Aaron, it will be Hanson and Jones.The whole front office needs cleaning out.
coach k
August 1st, 2009
10:53 am
what a dumb a** move. If you want some results, blow out Norton and Church. Bring back Brooks. Move Kawakami to the bullpen. Use Medlin to set up Soriano. When Infante is back he starts in left. Kotchman may not hit as many homers but he will save 60+ runs with his defense and he is hitting 100 point higher in the last month then LaRoche. We never give this team a chance to gel and once it was we moved Conrad back to the minors. Give me more players that have that passion… I never see this team act like a team just a bunch or individual and that I blame on Cox. And for the love of the game get rid of Norton, he is anothe Francouer in our line up, rally downer!!!!!!
Dorothy Davis
August 1st, 2009
11:00 am
I hope Adam and Chipper get in some hunting this fall, as his days are numbered. He is just a “fill in” till the best minor league prospect is ready for next year. Getting rid of Kotchman is just an indication the head office is ready to settle for a lost season and concentrate on next year. I can live with that, as I am used to that kind of thinking from Wren. The highlight this season will be that we will finish ahead of the Mets…HOPEFULLY. The good news is we got rid of Bennett.
ATLfan15
August 1st, 2009
11:03 am
well said coach k! I told my buddy the other day that this is the most uninspired bunch I’ve seen in years. trades aside, it matters when your players are fired up to play, or least that’s what I tell the Little Leaguers: ACT like you want to play, be sharp, focus on the game…..i know they make a lot of money, but it’s still a kids’ game.
Yes, Dorothy…..Amen! We are definitely not in Kansas anymore.
(blatant movie reference….which one was it?)
Lee Raines
August 1st, 2009
11:07 am
2010; 2011; 20whenever. The Braves will not become a contender until “plate power” is added into the lineup. A lineup needs more than two or three fairly CONSISTENT hitters. There must be hitters across the lineup. This is one area; the other is the bullpen. The Braves must acquire relievers who are truly “stoppers” and “holders.”
Many trades made this year have simply not been good ones.
jimmya
August 1st, 2009
11:10 am
hey send me some blacks that have power or speed i am white but these white boys aint getting it done
Hillbilly Deluxe
August 1st, 2009
11:10 am
Mark Bradley goes on a 3 day brainstorm and Kotchman gets traded for LaRoche. Coincidence? Perhaps; perhaps not.
Sonny Clusters knew what underwear Francouer had on at the Dairy Queen?
The Braves did indeed make the playoffs in 69. The Mets rolled over ‘em like a locomotive. I was there, very top row of the upper deck, dead away center field. Could barely see the field but great view of the skyline when the games got out of hand.
erik
August 1st, 2009
11:17 am
Hey,
Lets look at this from a 2010 standpoint. The pitching staff is solid and will only get better with the return of Hudson. We lose 2 contracts in Frenchy and Kotchman and gain two free agents in Church and LaRoche. Next year we can bring in a bat to assist the half way decent offensive the Braves field. The free agent pool will have some good players Lets go afer Matt Holliday. Also for all of you that cused wren for the Smoltz deal look how that has worked for Boston ( a 2-4 record with a 7.12 era). For as much as people want instant gradifacation sit back and wait. Frank Wren has a plan and he seems to have a good idea of what he is doing.
Always Next Year
August 1st, 2009
11:25 am
I can not believe what I’m hearing, everybody is looking to 2010 but are you losing your memory we can’t beat the Philadelphia Phillies who just added a CY Young pitcher without losing their farm system. Braves fans get your heads out of the clouds and wake up! The Braves are not better than Florida Marlins, wake up Please!
coach k
August 1st, 2009
11:30 am
if you want change lets move Cox and Pendleton. The buttons are not getting pushed and these guys argue balls and strikes more than trying to figure out who should be hitting, Norton?? oh an why was freaking Moylan hitting when Soriano was coming in with men on base, you still had Ross on the bench, this is the typ of brainless s##$ we have had t put up with for 15yrs, Smoltz, Maddox Glavine are not going to save your butt any longer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Always Next Year
August 1st, 2009
11:38 am
All I’ve been hearing is how good the chemistry was with the group of players including Casey Kotchman who hadn’t hit until this past July and then management changes the chemistry for a loser who you shipped out of here. The psychologist the old Braves hired for John Smoltz is he still available so he can bring Braves management to their senses!
Rufus
August 1st, 2009
11:40 am
The Brave remind me of a dog chasing its tail, time after time.
hop
August 1st, 2009
11:41 am
sorry always next year, florida has proven for many years that it is a better organization than the braves and they have spent far less money by winning two world series to the braves one!
EJ
August 1st, 2009
11:53 am
If this keeps up, we will bring back the oldies but goodies….
Really?
August 1st, 2009
12:02 pm
The Braves should leave Atlanta because these post are the dumbest I’ve read. Anybody notice Smoltz’s numbers. KK is much better. Would you rather have Glavine or Hanson? Wren took Hanson. The Braves’ power numbers at 1st are the worst in the NL. By the way they were 18 games under 500 last year. An 18 game improvement would be significant even if they don’t make the playoffs. This organization should move to a city that appreciates the sports they have unlike Atlanta.
coach k
August 1st, 2009
12:05 pm
why don’t we buy out Joe Torres contract for 2010 and lets just see what he can get out of the same dang players, because coming out of spring I thought this team with it’s talent had enough to contend.
Shady Kraft
August 1st, 2009
12:07 pm
Wren has had a great year. Our pitching is solid. The Kotchman trade is weird to me thoug because hes smacking the ball right now. We can only hope LaRoche heats up. I still watch. I do the 90’s when we get like one run and have a good chance of winning the game. What about Chipper to first, Prado to third, get rid of Kelly and put Brooks Conrad at 2nd? He did a great job while he was up.
Jeff
August 1st, 2009
12:19 pm
????????????
This just seems like a trade being made by an organization without a plan. Throw something at the wall and maybe it will stick.
The nucleus of this team needs to be broken up. Something just isn’t working for this group of Braves, specifically the hitters.
This team is now going on their fourth straight year without making the playoffs. In those 3 1/2+ years, the Braves are 15 games under .500 despite being +121 in run differential for the same period.
The Braves were -25 in run differential for the ENTIRE YEAR last year and finished 18 games UNDER .500. They are +25 in run differential for 103 GAMES this year and are just 1 game OVER .500.
This team is under-performing and has been for 3 1/2 years now. Something has to change. I don’t know if the change needs to be Bobby Cox, or Terry Pendleton, or jettisoning players that have been here for that entire period, such as Kelly Johnson. I don’t know, but I don’t get paid millions of dollars to know. However, any casual fan that has watched the 2006-2009 Braves can see that something is simply off with these teams.
Any knucklehead (such as myself) can go and check the Braves’ record and measure it against their expected record based on statistical analysis. Here’s a brief summary:
Actual W-L Pythagorean W-L Differential
2006: 79-83 85-77 -6
2007: 84-78 88-74 -4
2008: 72-90 79-83 -7
2009: 52-51 54-49 -2
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/ATL/2008.shtml
This team is now under-performing their expectations for the FOURTH CONSECUTIVE YEAR! You know how many other major league baseball teams have underperformed their expectations for 4 consecutive years? Zero. That can’t be a statistical aberration (well, it could be, but the odds would be incredibly long).
abudefdef
August 1st, 2009
12:37 pm
Always Next Year — Braves are 7-2 vs Phillies this year…and they can’t beat them?
coach k
August 1st, 2009
12:37 pm
Ditto Tim I am 53 and am tired of this movie, we can’t get a team we just continue to fill slots, no passion, no chemistry, it sure was fun between 90-95 but since this mangement team has lost what it really take to win and that is small ball and guts, we have none.
BravesAreDone
August 1st, 2009
12:40 pm
Jeff can I get a certificate in the mail also please???
Jeff
August 1st, 2009
12:48 pm
Not only does this trade not make sense, but the general direction of this team makes no sense. This is the seeming epitome of a ‘throw something at the wall and hope it sticks’ move.
I don’t know what the answer is for this team, but then again, I don’t get paid money to know the answers. However, I do know a few things that are irrefutable.
First, since last making the playoffs, the Braves’ have played just over 3 1/2 years of baseball. During this time they have a run differential of +121. During the same time they are 15 games under .500.
Second, in each of the 4 years since making the playoffs, the Braves have underperformed their expected outcome based on a statistical analysis. Example–in 2006 the Braves went 79-83. Their Pythagorean W-L, based on run differential, was 85-77. In 2007, the Braves went 84-78. Their Pythagorean W-L was 88-74. In 2008, the Braves went 72-90. Their Pythagorean W-L was 79-83. This year? You guessed it–actual record 52-51 . . . expected record 54-49.
Do you know how many other teams have underperformed their expected record for four consecutive years? You guessed it–ONE!
Third, Bobby Cox has presided over Braves’ teams that have won less games then they should have, based on these statistical models, for four consecutive years, which is, frankly, unprecedented.
Something major needs to change for this franchise, rather then the shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic that seems to be the current course. Hey Braves’ front office: “Iceberg, straight ahead!”
abudefdef
August 1st, 2009
12:49 pm
EJ, I like the post, but as a loyal braves fan, i hope they never leave! Problem is there are too many fair weather fans and too many people who moved from New York and Boston and Chicago that kept those allegiances…Atlanta is too big of a meltingpot to fully support the team…unless we end up in another “Worst to First” season a la 1991
abudefdef
August 1st, 2009
12:50 pm
I have the perfect two word solution:
TED TURNER!
andrewknight
August 1st, 2009
1:00 pm
subsequent to my earlier post, and, after a good long sleep, I am more incensed regarding the recent trade–I harken back to Adam’s first tour here and best characterize my impression of him as aloof and uninspiring–yes he had a good swing but always struck me as a rather daft lad…could be wrong…but again….it appears Wren is approaching a sand dune without AWD.
abudefdef
August 1st, 2009
1:13 pm
I shal reserve my opinion of Adam LaRoche until he has been in the dugout for a few games…perhaps he has matured in Pittsburgh, where he had what kind of lineup around him? Now he is in Atlanta, where he’ll see some better pitches, and may surprise all the naysayers on these boards! I wish him and Kotchman the best.
On another note: Wren’s decision not to bring back Smoltz—looks good at the moment, Hanson over Glavine—looks good at the moment
Kelly johnson back and we done
August 1st, 2009
1:47 pm
Well since Bobby cox put KJ loser back team is gone down….2-5 since her retirn we gone n Wren n cox should be hung instead of the braves 95 world series championship….but where there chokin world series flag from 91 92 96 99….lets also not forget there Natl league chokin flags in 1993 and 1997 and 1999 and 2001 .they need be hung over the urninals at the ted also
Kevin
August 1st, 2009
1:49 pm
Now for good news frenchyis hittin better bad news if bobby cox brings back TP its wait till 2014 now………time for action fire both Bobby cox n TP after season n hire Ed Yost as are new mananger for 2010…
johnr
August 1st, 2009
2:03 pm
Went to the game of Friday and it was clear that the Braves are dead in the water. I have always been a Bobby Cox fan until last night when he started kelly johnson instead of Prado. I realize now that it is time for Bobby to go.
Scott B
August 1st, 2009
2:12 pm
I keep reading comments that Cox should be fired. For anyone to think that he should get canned, well, they truly don’t know a thing about baseball. My gosh, he’s going to be gone soon enough because of his age, but I am not looking forward to that day. If you ask the players, I’m sure they would say, to a man, that they would run through a wall for the guy. When he does leave, it will be because he is retiring. Some of you people are just out of touch with reality.
abudefdef
August 1st, 2009
2:23 pm
Amen Scott B…preach on! Long live Bobby!
bye, bye, miss american pie
August 1st, 2009
2:31 pm
Ok, Braves need to start taking steriods. period by the time MLB finds out, maybe we will have a world series ring. so, bfd, we have a 50 game suspension next year…..
htownbravesfan
August 1st, 2009
2:45 pm
How Kelly Johnson and Greg Norton continue to be on this roster and Conrad is now back in the minors is the biggest mystery since Jimmy Hoffa’s burial site.
Coach Stevie
August 1st, 2009
3:08 pm
This trade only makes sense in the fact that Wren makes this move looking forward to the future by opening up first base for Freeman come next year. He is figuring that if LaRoche has his typical second half of the season in which he heats up then short term the Braves get some additional power creating a wash for this season or maybe even a slight improvement.
The problem I see with this is that he is making a pretty big gamble on Freeman being ready to contribute at the Major League level next year. Jeff how likely do you feel that is and if he is not ready, who would be our one year gap player?
I believe we would have been better off standing pat knowing that if Freeman shows that he is ready next year, then we could trade Kotchman for prospects or a bullpen piece for the stretch run.
DamYankee
August 1st, 2009
3:21 pm
Rob @7:42 – SHULTZ=MOORE Which Moore is that? Surely you don’t mean the one who wrote a quarterly screed about how MLB hates African-American players. Or cried the blues about how David Justice got dissed in ATL (according to David losing was the fans fault). Or characterized himself as a genius (as in “the Braves/Falcons/Hawks resident geniuses blah blah blah I could do better”). The only good thing about the Urinal-Constipation’s recent attempts to become “McPaper” was losing T. Moore.
James
August 1st, 2009
3:21 pm
FIRE BOBBY COX
DamYankee
August 1st, 2009
3:33 pm
Yo, Reid in EAV: I concur, if you look around the field in almost any MLB park you’ll see plenty of black faces, I guess if your’e not straight outta Compton you don’t qualify as black. And to the poster above who fondly remembers A. Jones’ hitting, I guess Frenchy went to the same hitting clinic. “If it moves, take a hack, especially if it bounces in front of the plate”. It ain’t cricket fahchrissakes!
phily fanatic
August 1st, 2009
3:40 pm
up here in phily land we get lee you get an olb brave who can not run just another turtle or snail. did you braves fans stay up late and watch lee pitch what a game. lets face you guys down their in atlanta are small market you need to have a fire sale like pittsborgh did and cut your losses. you might be in the post season in the year 2020 or not.
mississippi brave
August 1st, 2009
3:40 pm
Just checked the lineup for today’s game. Please is there anyone besides McClouth who can leadoff.
phily fanatic
August 1st, 2009
3:49 pm
sorry for the typos i am laughing so hard i can not type bring up conrad get rid of johnson get rid of norton fire cox yes do it. your team is done all of those ass nine moves are not going to help 1 iota.
phily fanatic
August 1st, 2009
3:52 pm
sorry for typos i am laughing so hard i can not type. bring up conrad dfa johnson and norton. fire cox it is not going to help 1 iota. hee hee hee
gary
August 1st, 2009
3:52 pm
Since Bobby Cox gets so much credit for all those 5-team divisional championships, then he should get to shoulder much of the credit for the Braves last few non-championship seasons. If you say the current skid is “because of whatever lack of talent”, then you need to remember the boatload of talent those championships teams had. Bobby is indeed good at keeping everyone happy around the campfire, but is he good at firing up the team or adapting his game to what his players can do or the situation at hand? Perhaps his only having one World Series victory out of all those post seasons answers that one.
chc4
August 1st, 2009
3:55 pm
Whoever said Salty would be an All Star 1B for the Braves had we kept him is delusional. The guy has been a huge disappointment in Texas.
Hillbilly Deluxe
August 1st, 2009
8:16 pm
Looked to me like Nate McLouth had a pretty good day in the leadoff spot.
LaRoche trade is about 2010? | umpbump.com
August 1st, 2009
8:38 pm
[...] the AJC’s Jeff Schultz tells us that the Braves sole trade dealine move — a straight-up swap of 1B Casey Kotchman for 1B Adam [...]
Wish we had more PROSPECTS
August 2nd, 2009
5:00 am
Teixeira deal, “worst deal in MLB history”:
ab avg hr rbi obp slg
SS Andrus 280 .264 4 19 .319 .364
SS Escobar 331 .305 11 58 .370 .471
*Obviously Andrus is 6 years younger, but Yunel would have blocked up SS to where Andrus most likely wouldn’t have been used. although Andrus has lightning speed, Prado is still the better choice at 2nd right now.
ab avg hr rbi obp slg
C Salty 262 .240 8 32 .291 .374
C McCann 296 .301 12 52 .373 .520
*Where would Salty go, first base? no upgrade whatsoever, not even at first right now.
2009 (career) era (career)
SP Harrison 4-5 (13-8) 6.11 (5.76)
SP Feliz (AAA) 4-6 3.49 30BB/75SO
RP Jones (AA) 2-4 5.60 24BB/41SO 35.1IP/42H .284OppAvg
We may miss Feliz, but Harrison, the top prospect, has been oft-injured and has not lived up to the hype. he certainly wouldn’t crack our starting rotation at this point.
RP Mahay (2007) 67ip 37bb/55so 2.55era
not much more than just a decent LH RP we never resigned.
Now, Tex last 3 seasons:
ab avg hr rbi obp slg
2007 494 .306 30 105 .400 .563
2008 574 .308 33 121 .410 .552
2009 392 .281 26 75 .377 .571
Holy crap. If the braves could have paid a king’s ransom for Tex, there is no way this deal is a loss to us. You people on here overvalue prospects. That is all they are until they prove themselves in the MLB. and so far the only one that has proven himself to the Rangers has been Andrus (which wouldn’t start at SS for us anyway). Harrison has done nothing and Salty is doing very little. The others are having decent seasons at AA and AAA right now. So tell me, how was the Teixeira deal so bad (other than braves not being able to sign him to a long term deal)?
Rufus
August 4th, 2009
12:29 pm
It’s useless, and sad to see a team look so tired, and which beyond the 6th inning they’re out of the game, they look burn out, mostly Chipper and Anderson, really whole team, just not as bad, as the these two senior. Even McCann isn’t doing a very good job batting or behind the plate, Diaz is striking out too many time, he has taken over for Johnson in that category.
From this side of the ball park, there is no cure for the Braves, this year or next, and as for the future, well ?
With Cox repeating the same mistake over and over again, it’s useless to try to find any hope for the Braves.
Old Chipper said they have the player to win, and I say maybe, but not without another the manager, hitting coach, or general manager, outside of that, and throw in two or three quality, players, they might have a change.
DMac
August 4th, 2009
4:14 pm
The Cox supporters are the ones out of touch with reality. That guy has lost more games in October than I want to remember. He’d also rather start a .225 hitting veteran than a .325 hitting kid. Any real owner would have fired him years ago, but that’s the problem with this club. They don’t have a real owner. They are owned by a corporation that could not care less about winning. They simply want a tax write-off. Until the team gets a real owner, they will continue to flail about in mediocrity.
rick in jerusalem
August 5th, 2009
3:12 am
Trade Chipper? To who?
Word gets around when them fastballs are strikes instead of doubles and homers. Chipper used to wait for his pitch–now he looks like he’s going up there thinking walk first. Things are getting back to the preBonds normal career trajectory, and 37 year olds no longer hit fastballs like they did when they were thirty (See Ordonez and Helton power numbers among others)
As far as Kotchman goes, good riddance. First base is a power position and if you dont hit homers you need to hit hit 320, not 280. LaRoche will hit like he always does when he quits thinkin and starts counting down to deer season. CK has found his ideal role–late inning defensive replacement for a guy who can actually hit like a first baseman
Now to get rid of that other “professional hitter” who cant wait to cash that last check and move on. Maybe they’d OK putting one of those little concrete statues in left field with a glove on it’s hand. At least we’d be saved the embarrassment of seeing an OF WALK to pick up a ball after failing to back up a grounder in the hole
Some guy named Keith Law rates the Braves farm system #3 in the majors. Heyward, Freeman and…Diory Hernandez?????? Look at the farm stats. A Miss pitcher–Cofield I think–started the AllStar game. Whopeee he’s got more walks than Ks and not a lot of either. Hicks cant hit AA, Schafer apparently cant play at all, and Norton is the only thing saving Diory from being the worst hitter in the majors. Dont say Canizares. He has never drawn a walk that wasnt intentional and cant play D like Frenchy. Plus he’s fat
Tim Hudson ought to be back in time to finish wasting Kris Medlens age 23 season
I dont care much about football. Id take up hunting but I doubt that chain–smoking is a plus when stalking deer
mike w
August 6th, 2009
10:09 am
as a long time braves fan im ashamed of how people complain about everything. wren can do nothing right according to some on this site. cant we just support our team instead of always finding something to complain about. this is our team, theirs some cities without a team. were lucky in the sense we have a team. a great team. the real (americas team).
fieldofdreams
August 7th, 2009
11:47 am
Ethier ends every hope. Stick a fork in ‘em, they’re officially done. We wasted a lot of great pitching on Kelly Johnson, Jeff Francouer, Jordan Schaefer, and Kenshin Kawakami. No speed, no power. No playoffs.
GaCracker
August 7th, 2009
5:09 pm
What will it take to get Joe Torre as our manager and retire Bobby – or let the Nationals have him? He is a “formuala” manajor”. Why doesn’t he allow each relief pitcher to remain until he is tired or ineffective. Why must he always play “setup” and “closer”? If Soriano didn’t have good stuff, why didn’t he tell Bobby and get his ass out of the game?
abudefdef
August 9th, 2009
5:30 am
hey philly fanatic…how about that 7.5 game lead over the Braves dropping to 5.5 games…over the past 2 days?
Looking forward to this upcoming weekend in Atlanta…Phillies bettter be careful or that series may drop them OUT of 1st in the NL East…Fish and Bravos are closing the gap!
KEEP THE FAITH BRAVES NATION!
Keep the faith
****WHOOOOOOOOAAAAAAOOOO WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAOOOOOO****
***TOMAHAWK-A-CHOPPIN***
abudefdef
August 9th, 2009
5:32 am
Oh yeah, and KJ sis batting .348 over his last 10 games, with 2 Dbls, 1 Trpl, 3 HRs, 8 RBIs…and Kawakami pitched well, 4 hits over 7 inn against a VERY good lineup…BRING IT ON PHILLY!
AlabamaBrave
August 9th, 2009
2:43 pm
abudefdef
August 1st, 2009
10:07 am
All you Chipper Bashers—who is a better switch hitter in MLB history?
Mickey Mantle