Deadline report: Braves have stood out by doing nothing
Yunel Escobar seems like he's looking at the standings, but he just got hit on the wrist by a pitch Thursday night.
Good morning. The Braves haven’t made a trade yet. Why do I get the feeling I’ll be able to type the same thing after breakfast?
Did something a little bit different last night, while switching between the Braves-Marlins and the “The Doors” movie on HBO (and by the way, it turns out Jim Morrison was kind of dark and had a drinking problem). I arranged all of the National League playoff contenders by winning percentage. The idea was to determine if only the best teams are being aggressive as they approached the trade deadline.
The maybe-not-so-shocking results: Yes.
As you go down the list, notice how as the winning percentages decrease, the lesser teams are napping. (This includes your Braves: No. 8 with a bullet.) Now, doing nothing isn’t surprising for a non-playoff contender, unless you’re the Pittsburgh Pirates and the idea is to see how much you can sell off your major organs for. But every team I’m listing below is at least a legitimate wild-card contender. Or is supposed to be.
The list:
♦ 1. Dodgers (.618): They just made a trade with Baltimore for All-Star reliever George Sherrill, who can close or be a set-up man. There’s the added bonus of Sherrill not having failed a drug test in 2003, which sets him apart in the Dodgers’ clubhouse.
♦ 2. Phillies (.580): The team the Braves have pretty much ceased chasing in the East tried to swing a deal for Toronto pitcher Roy Halladay but couldn’t get him. So they settled for Cleveland’s Cliff Lee, a Cy Young winner. Assuming we can call that settling.
♦ 3. Giants (.549) They’re one of the teams that has benefited most from the Pirates’ yard sale, acquiring All-Star second baseman Freddy Sanchez.
♦ 4. Cubs (.540): Not a huge move but a solid one, acquiring reliever John Grabow from Pittsburgh. Grabow is 3-0 with a 3.42 earned run average. Seems like he’s a guy who could have helped the Braves’ bullpen.
♦ 5. Rockies (.539): Nothing big this week but last week added set-up man Rafael Betancourt from Cleveland. Opponents were hitting .225 against him. So far he’s allowed one base runner in three appearances in Colorado.
♦ 6. Cardinals (.533): Acquired someone who potentially could’ve put the Braves over the top for a wild-card spot: Oakland outfielder/first baseman Matt Holliday, a legitimate home run hitter. (Correction from earlier reference to “40-home run hitter.”)
♦ 7. Marlins (.520): Nothing.
♦ 8. Braves (.510): Nothing.
♦ 9. Brewers (.500): Nothing.
♦ 10. Astros (.500): Nothing.
Does this disturb you? We’ve weighed in on the whole should-the-Braves-deal-or-stand-pat thing several times. But seeing them at the bottom of this list and doing nothing jumps out at me. Isn’t the idea to be aggressive in a pennant stretch? Or is this just about 2010?
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149 comments Add your comment
Reid Adair
July 31st, 2009
8:00 am
Yes, it disturbs me, but it doesn’t surprise me. The “offense,” to be kind, remains inconsistent. They got on a bit of a streak there, then disappeared again for the first two games at Land Shark Stadium.
The pitching is solid, but Frank Wren has done nothing during the season to address the offensive issues. As a result, I believe the Braves will once again be sitting at home during the playoffs.
On a separate note, Jim Morrison was “kind of dark” and “had a drinking problem”?!??! Wow.
Adam Price
July 31st, 2009
8:00 am
Why don’t you try researching/explaining why the Braves are not doing anything Jeff! All of the AJC sports columnists are the same…you write an article without any research to why. Maybe it is because they have one of the best pitching staffs in the NL, thus keeping them in every game. Martin Prado has made the lineup go in addition to the recent surges of Garret Anderson and Casey Kotchman. Escobar, Chipper, and McCann are solid all year, so the lineup is not bad. We have made trade deadline moves…just a little earlier. Remember McClouth, Church? Even though Frenchy is doing well in NYC, the addition of Church will further lessen the holes in our lineup. A hitter would be nice to add, but you are going to write another article bashing Frank Wren if he were to mortgage any future to obtain a rental player. In addition, no team is going to jump at the idea of obtaining Kelly Johnson or any other unattractive players we have to offer. They will want Vazquez, Heyward, or someone else important to the organization. The only rumors have been for the Braves to add a bullpen piece. The deadline if 4:00, so why jump to conclusions now? This is why I need to stop reading the AJC.
Max Sizemore
July 31st, 2009
8:01 am
The Braves don’t do relief pitching. Which is why Bobby overuses the few good ones he has. Moylan missed most of last season with an injury after 80 appearances the year before. A team simply can’t ignore the 6th and 7th inning, and the Braves do. If you are weak in run production, as the Braves are, you are going to be in a lot of close games. And you can’t use Gonzalez and Soriano every game. A Betancourt, Sherrill, or Grabow would be huge pluses for the Braves. Yes, Wren deserves credit for bolstering the rotation, nabbing McLouth, and finally ridding the Braves of Francoeur, but until he learns to value the bullpen the Braves will never amount to much.
FSUBrad
July 31st, 2009
8:04 am
Was figuring they might move KJ, but w/ Prado & Yunel banged up temporarily & Omar still on the DL, have a feeling he’s sticking around & may get moved via waivers next month. Until KK’s blowup Wed night, was hoping they’d possibly move Javy for a big bat (either LF, RF or 1B). Now, KK & Hudson are too big of a question mark for them to move Javy. Had they not won last night, would have liked to see them make a similar deal (either Gonzo or Soriano) to Balt sending Sherrill for a very good prospect in Bell. Today, I think they stand pat, and potentially make some moves mid to late August. Those moves will be based on where they stand though, could be buyers or sellers.
FSUBrad
July 31st, 2009
8:07 am
Reid, I’d call Mclouth a solid move to improve the offense. I’d call Church an upgrade over Frenchy too. Not a season changing deal, but an upgrade nonetheless…
Toots
July 31st, 2009
8:16 am
If the Braves did something would you be happy? Or are you just naturally dark and disturbed? I’m kidding, Jeff, but really–what would you have the Braves do?
nes
July 31st, 2009
8:27 am
What big bats are available? And we don’t want Freeman or Heyward being dealt.
All I'm Saying Is...
July 31st, 2009
8:27 am
Hey “Adam Price on July 31st, 2009 at 8:00 am”: Your post was priceless, dude! I could not have said it better myself. The quantity of blog postings by AJ/C sports writers may have increased and so has, unfortunately, the proof that they have little to say. As you stated, do some real work (i.e. research), Schultz, and at least appear informed.
greg
July 31st, 2009
8:34 am
Tell me how the Marlins do what they do with the lowest payroll in the majors. The Braves are a nice .500 club..that’s it. They simply are not better than half the teams in the league.
All I'm Saying Is...
July 31st, 2009
8:35 am
Schultz:
1) The Braves expect to continue to improve with the return of Infante and Hudson. (you might want to research their expected return dates…oops, that would require work).
2) Braves pitching has been consistently strong all year (you might want to research the team ERA…oops, that would require work).
3) Braves had no interest in trading their most marketable minor league/young talents:
a) Hanson (you might want to review his performance at the MLB level to see if that makes sense…oops, that would require work) or
b) Heyward (you might want to research his performance in the minors to see if that makes sense…oops, that would require work) or
c) Escobar (you might want to check his stats this year and how they have improved over the last couple of years…oops, that would require work) or
d) Prado (you might want to research his performance since becoming a starter (and the teams record since then)…oops, that would require work) so it did not appear logical or rational to go after Holliday or Adam Dunn.
Maxwell Snark
July 31st, 2009
8:37 am
We don’t know what it’s about, not me and not you. Wren likely had discussions, at least it has been reported he did, but did find something that was going to tip the scales for this year. I trust Wren and like what he’s done so far. Holliday? From his first-half stats, he looked like a product of Coors Field, not the second coming of Fred McGriff. He may have a McGriff-type impact, and if so, maybe the Braves should have pushed to get him. But, for me, I’m happy for the Braves to fight with what they’ve got and continue the rebuilding process over the winter.
Joebrave
July 31st, 2009
8:45 am
Shultz, you’re full of steaming cat poop!
Dave
July 31st, 2009
8:47 am
Hey Jeff, how do think Jim Minter would feel about blogs in his day? Can you see Grizzard sitting at his old Royal trying to respond . . .
W
July 31st, 2009
8:51 am
Who’s been hot lately.. A couple of pieces returning too. Shultz trying to
stir the pot why .. because he’s a writer. By the what see what happened
the last time we did what he proposed. Great idea Jeffy. Just shad up as the
baseball experts get paid for this kind thinking. God I’m stupid for reading
your rubbish.
Michael
July 31st, 2009
8:54 am
It’s a little disingenuous to say that the Braves have done nothing. They got McClouth and Church. Those acquisitions didn’t happen within the last week, but it’s hardly “nothing.”
Jeff Schultz
July 31st, 2009
8:55 am
Reid – Thanks for checking in and being FIRST! I was worried there for a while. Thought I’d have to write something about Vick again. … Agree on your analysis. The lineup changes basically have been to amend mistakes, and jury is still out on Francoeur-Church, despite what many Francoeur-bashers in this blogosphere might believe.
Adam – The why has been addressed – you’re obviously just not reading everything — and I’ll touch on it again tonight in a column off the game. 1) Budget; 2) Primary focus is on 2010; 3) Unwillingness to deal more prospects for contracts.
FSUBrad – Good point. It will be interesting now to see if KJ doesn’t get moved, because of what happened last night. I think he was as good as gone.
Toots – Dark, disturbed and occasionally happy.
Jeff Schultz
July 31st, 2009
9:01 am
Nes – well, Holliday WAS available. I know some folks want Adam Dunn but that’s just not realistic with his salary.
All I’m saying –
1) I’m aware of Hudson and Infante. Also aware Lindbergh made it.
2) Bullpen still could use middle relief help. (Might want to do some research.)
3) Duh. See above.
But you do get a few points for sarcasm.
Dave – Not sure Jim Minter would be into the whole blogging thing. Lewis maybe – after several beers.
Bravedawg
July 31st, 2009
9:07 am
Jeff,
I think this is an example of the teams at the top happening to have glaring holes. The Phillies were in dire need of pitching (their recent winning streak notwithstanding). The Giants have a ton of pitching, but little offense. Particularly, 2B was a black hole for them. Rich Aurilia?
And the teams at the top also have a lot more money than anyone else. So, they’re able to take on more salary. Numerous people on the AJC have said that the Braves couldn’t take an Adam Dunn or Matt Holliday because they can’t afford them. It may have been nice to get a reliever, but that’s about the only thing we need (and that we could reasonably afford).
Interesting that you make a distinction that the Braves getting McLouth and Church is “correcting mistakes.” Isn’t that what all of these trades are for? The Phillies made a mistake thinking they could win with the rotation they opened the season with. The Giants made a mistake thinking they could win with the offense they opened the season with. You catch my drift. If this McLouth deal was done yesterday, people would be saying the Braves made a spectacular move. So, wouldn’t it make it even better considering they got McLouth 2.5 months ago?
People just want a trade for the sake of a trade, and that’s stupid.
Herschel Talker
July 31st, 2009
9:11 am
Schultzie – I think it’s about 2010. The only things they would trade away would be things they wouldn’t want to part with, so standing pat is wise for the long-term (this assumes that some GM isn’t going for a Jo Jo Reyes and Kelly Johnson for Albert Pujols type deal).
All I'm Saying Is...
July 31st, 2009
9:24 am
Bravedawg: Great post! Probably over Schultz’ head though.
Schultz: Your giving me “…points for sarcasm” provides my life with so much meaning. And, yeah, middle relief help—the lack of that is what has been holding us back. Wow. Amazing insight from you.
LET’S GO BRAVES!
Tami
July 31st, 2009
9:25 am
In between the unnecessary “bashing” Mr. Price wrote @ 8 a.m., he did make some good points. While ALL of the possible trades were very, very attractive, the Braves would have to give up far too much for temporary players. I believe they are building for 2010, and any visit to the postseason this season is a bonus. I wouldn’t be surprised if Wren does make a “last-minute” change for the bullpen before today’s 4 pm ET deadline. However, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he didn’t.
I think Kawakami will end up going to the bullpen when Huddy comes back, which could assign Kawakami to a middle relief role. It’ll either be Kawakami or Lowe that moves to the bullpen. Based on his last outing, I tend to believe it’ll be the former more than the latter that is moved. Infante will be back soon as well, providing that extra bat we needed. So, there will be moves made on the team. Just internally. I think that in itself is the best move(s) for this team right now.
Brian
July 31st, 2009
9:27 am
Jeff, not only has Holliday never hit 40 home runs in a season (even when he played at Coors), he is only on a pace for less than 20 this year. How do you figure he is a 40-home run hitter?
Brian
July 31st, 2009
9:45 am
I would also like to add that, especially after being badly burned two years ago in a deadline deal, the Braves are probably taking more of a realistic attitude toward this season. It’s not the be-all, end-all, but the Braves’ postseason odds according to Baseball Prospectus peaked at just 31 percent, even after they got hot last week. It’s now at 21%. At least that illustrates how difficult it would have been to catch the Phillies or jump multiple wild card contenders. They have given themselves at least a shot this year without compromising 2010, and I think that’s all they want to do. The Braves are only two games over .500, and if they were under .500 like the Mets, I bet Javier Vazquez would be moved today.
Coach (2010 or Bust)
July 31st, 2009
9:49 am
Jeff, our Braves playoff chances are slim and none. Frank Wren knows this.
That said, the payroll is all but tapped out. The only tradeable commodity is our starting pitching and nobody want’s to go that route without having to basically tank the rest of the season. We are neither sellers nor buyers sitting at 52-50 (.510) and going nowhere fast.
I have been saying 2010 or Bust all season long and nothing has changed.
Herschel Talker
July 31st, 2009
10:14 am
OK. So it’s a consensus. The chances of making the playoffs this year are slim. Even if they do, the Phillies and Dodgers juggernauts would likely put an end to anything (not guaranteed, but likely). So don’t trade anything that would be an asset in 2010 and beyond. Furthermore, in the offseason, they can hopefully pick up the bat they need via free agency. Great. We’re all in agreement. On to the next…
Tony
July 31st, 2009
10:21 am
There is a reason none of us are GMs in this league. Trade away one of your most consistent starters (Vasquez)? Move D. Lowe to the bullpen? I want a bat as much as the next guy, but I am willing to wait for Mr. Freeman and Mr. Heyward to arrive in the next few years. We traded for the big bat two seasons ago and still missed the playoffs and lost a lot of prospects for it.
Doug
July 31st, 2009
10:32 am
I have said it before, I’ll say it again. There is talent here. A winning attitude has been missing. It has at least temporarily made an appearance. Hopefully, the team will discover it has a choice about winning. Winning doesn’t come by accident.
These players are major league players. They can play. The difference is, who can stay on top of the mental part of the game.
Finally, trading is complicated part of the business. A team has to be willing to give up players. They have to be willing to give up players to opposing teams. Sometimes the players actually have a say in that. Players may not want to come to Atlanta. Other teams may not want to help Atlanta reclaim first place status.
Thus, it still comes back to attitude. A team has to be willing to develop the chemistry and attitude it takes to win with the team it has. They have to win with the talent that is available. Getting discouraged about not having an all-star team to field everyday doesn’t help a team win.
All I'm Saying Is...
July 31st, 2009
10:36 am
Hold on a minute, Herschel Talker and Coach (2010 or Bust): The Braves are 7 back of the Phillies and 4 behind San Francisco (two teams who have an ongoing series with each other, by the way) and the Braves have 60 games left in the season and you two are writing things like: “Playoff chances slim and none” and “…chances of making the playoffs this year are slim.” What are you two smoking?
Let me tell you something and I’ll shout it to make myself clear: THE BRAVES HAVE AN EXCELLENT CHANCE OF MAKING THE PLAYOFFS IN 2009 IF WE STICK WITH WHO WE HAVE! As Tami noted, Schultz’ (over-stated) concern about middle relief will dissipate (Jeff: that means disappear which is what you wish for me, I’m sure) when Huddy returns given how well positioned our pitching staff is at the moment. As others have noted, teams tend to go with either a 3- or 4-man rotation in the playoffs which makes every other non-closer or non-set-up or non-situational pitcher a candidate for middle relief.
So all the Braves need to do is what every other playoff contender is trying to do at this time of year and that’s win games and win series and hope teams in front lose (yes, despite the million statistics available, baseball is really that simple).
In terms of the division, we still have nine games left with the Phillies in August and September. In terms of the wild card, well that’s why the darn thing was invented by Selig (during one of his few inspired moments as Commish) and we have an outstanding shot at it. So get your collective heads together and start thinking some positive thoughts.
LET’S GO BRAVES!
All I'm Saying Is...
July 31st, 2009
10:49 am
We also have 11 games left with the Nationals and the Padres—two last place clubs. If we can win eight to eleven of those games and take six of the nine versus the Phillies, then we can put tremendous pressure on them and bolster our wild card prospects. The Braves are well positioned to make a run and simply need to handle their business over the next 60 games starting tonight against the Dodgers. We’ll see and it will be fun to watch!
LET’S GO BRAVES!
Craig
July 31st, 2009
11:02 am
How can you say we haven’t done anything? McClouth / Church Just because this was done early doesn’t mean the Braves haven’t made moves before the trade deadline!
All I'm Saying Is...
July 31st, 2009
11:06 am
If you folks want to learn something about trade deadline trades, check this posting out on si.com:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/joe_posnanski/07/29/trades.prospects/index.html?eref=sihpT1
This article is an example of what a little research can do for the quality of your work (and since you are getting paid by the AJ/C and I’m not, Schultz, you are held to a higher standard than I am — and please don’t give me the excuse that the si.com writer works for a magazine and not a daily newspaper and faces less pressure to post daily blah-blah-blah—as my grandpappy use to say “If you are in the game then you need to play it well” so don’t give us less than your best effort with your posts, Schultz. I mean after all they have your name by them. Where’s your pride in your work, dude?)
LET’S GO BRAVES!
Jeff Schultz
July 31st, 2009
11:10 am
Bravedawg – That’s true, although Phils’ ERA has been among best in the majors of late and have been so not sure Lee fills glaring weakness. My point is that other clubs all took a big step forward. What you said about money certainly is true – particularly Philly and LA.
Herschel – I think you are correct. That’s not to say team is blowing off this season. But it’s almost like priority No. 2, if you follow.
Tami – Agree with you on 2010 thing (as others have echoed). I planned for that to be my focus tonight, unless somebody throws a no-no or I see Manny injecting between innings. …. On KK going to bullpen: Very possible, depending on how Huddy looks, but that doesn’t say much for KK given what he’s being paid.
Brian – True, actually 36 and 34. I stand corrected. Point is the same though, that his pop could’ve helped this team and should help the Cards.
Brian – I don’t think there’s any question that after Tex deal the Braves decided to closely guard remaining prospects. That’s been well-chronicled.
Rollwave06
July 31st, 2009
11:17 am
This has been said before, but I just want to reiterate the “timing” issue. The Braves have already made moves- I think for the better- and for the first time all year we have a solid line-up with few noticeable gaps. Why do you need to make a move the week of the deadline? The McLouth trade was a big deal, and would have been a headliner had it occurred this week. But it was made two months ago, and has certainly benefited the Braves. Church-Francoeur was probably a wash, but necessary.
I just think your grasping at straws here, Jeff. Was there nothing else to write? What was this, your 3rd article on the subject just this week? The Braves have been playing well of late- let’s see where it goes. And besides, let’s be honest. The Braves’ chances of making the playoffs are relatively low this year, given the sheer number of teams currently ahead of them they would have to best to make the wild card. Let’s not make a big deal (i.e. Teixeira) that’s going to hurt us the next year and years to come.
stamper
July 31st, 2009
11:19 am
honestly, i like our chances. i really do. the schedule also seems to favor us, so that helps… and while we might not do any trade activity today, we have the fortunate position of getting two additions in about 2 weeks, with Hudson and Infante. That right there will be HUGE.
gonna check out Hudson pitch in his rehab game tonight…i’m excited for him to get back in our rotation. He’ll be a major addition for us. He’s probably gonna get about 7 starts… that could be 7 wins for us; whereas KK might only equal to about 3 wins in that same time. that 4 game differential could pay a huge dividend for us in the end.
even if Hudson isn’t at his best, he’s still a significant upgrade over KK (who will be relegated to the bullpen for the rest of the year). a rotation of Lowe, Jurrjens, Vazquez, Hudson and Hanson is absolutely ridiculous. It will allow us all the opportunity to believe we have a serious chance of winning every night. no other team can feel equally confident about their rotation.
i like our chances, indeed.
Herschel Talker
July 31st, 2009
11:21 am
All I’m Saying is:
The wild card is certainly a possibility in terms of being 4 games back. The fact is that they’re in the mix with 5 or so teams, which makes it harder, but I do acknowledge the possibility. The division is done. Just do the math. They are not making up 7 games (8 in the loss column) against the Phils in 60 games. Just not happening. Read Schultz’s column earlier this week about not being able to have a bad week. They will have a bad week at some point, and that will seal the deal.
Our point is that it seems the only way to get better now is to give something up for the future (that’s generally how trading away prospects works), so it’s not worth it given the fact that they do not have an excellent chance, as you say. A possibility? Sure. But to say they have an excellent chance is just being naive. There is no sense in trading away Vazquez or a future chip in order to try and make it this year. Let’s focus on 2010 and beyond, and go at it this year with the horses we have.
Jeff Schultz
July 31st, 2009
11:22 am
NC Braves Fan — Sorry, we’ve had issues exclusive to people using Explorer. But they should be resolved now if you check. .. For future, email: jschultz@ajc.com … Twitter: @SchultzAJC
bry22
July 31st, 2009
11:23 am
If the Braves stand pat, there is very very very little chance they will make the playoffs. All they had to do was add one big bat and their chances would have increased tremendously!! What in the hell is Wren waiting for? Are we competitive? Yes! Are we Good? Not really. Average at best scoring runs. Above average pitching! Again what is Wren waiting for?
stamper
July 31st, 2009
11:25 am
sorry if i double posted.
BravoMan
July 31st, 2009
11:25 am
What about the aquisition of Nate McLouth? None of these teams did anything then. And not too many of these teams have a top of the rotation starter in Hudson returning, not to mention Infante and Carlyle. We’re not in a position where we have to do something, therefore this article is a waste of time.
Vols_1
July 31st, 2009
11:27 am
The Braves are biding time until Heyward and Freeman fill two power slots in a year or two. The smart move is to stand pat when stocked with good, young players. They’re not going to make the playoffs in 2009 so why blow up the minor league system? Doing so in the Tex trade a few years ago probably set the franchise back a year or two.
bravesfan27
July 31st, 2009
11:28 am
I guess nate and church was not good enough for you people esp u shultz
Jeff Schultz
July 31st, 2009
11:28 am
Bry22 — Careful, man. You’re rocking the boat with some folks here.
stamper
July 31st, 2009
11:29 am
Schultz your thread is screwy. not posting/telling me i’m double posting. WTF
bvillebaron
July 31st, 2009
11:29 am
I cannot believe that anyone would advocate trading for Matt Holliday after the Texeira disaster. Trading for Holliday would have been more stupid and shortsighted for several reasons: (1) you only get him for two months rather than a second season before he leaves (don’t kid yourselves folks, Holliday ain’t re-signing with the Braves with Boras being his agent with their budgetary constraints); and (2) Holliday isn’t having a “difference maker” season. “Standing pat” isn’t the worse thing the Braves can do, largely because they will be adding Hudson (in my mind, if Hudson pitches like the “old” Tim Hudson, he is as good as Cliff Lee) and Infante in August and this should make them contenders for the wild card spot (as much as I hate to say it, the Braves ain’t catching the Phils for 1st any way).
Iron Mike
July 31st, 2009
11:31 am
Why should they bother with a trade when they are getting Hudson and Infantae back and they can add Heyward when rosters expand. Why add a reliever at this time of the year since all of the best ones are getting to the point of overuse by this time of the year. I’m in favor of them standing pat.
stamper
July 31st, 2009
11:31 am
i give up. today is not my day. it’s 5 o’clock somewhere, right???
myra
July 31st, 2009
11:38 am
Im not sure the Bravos can afford anything anymore. But for godsake,can we please end the NORTON experiment? If we are playing him to move him in a trade…it ain’t workin.
Im sure he is a fine gentleman,but he cant hit right now,anymore,(whateva).
Isn’t ATL supposed to be dumping our VETS for younger dudes? Per Frank Wren?
Dump Naaawwten and bring back BROOKSIE!!!!!!!!
Please!
curtis jones
July 31st, 2009
11:38 am
Let’s be real folks. McLouth was an attractive addition, but he hasn’t been a difference-maker. He was a .250 hitter then, he’s a .250 hitter now. Strikes out way too much, outfield play has been inconsistent; great play one day, poor arm/range the next.
Church is a platoon/bench guy…again, not a difference maker, although it was nice to get more than a bucket of balls for Frenchy.
Will Hudson/Infante make a difference? Huddy can’t get this team into the playoffs, and even if Infante batted his usual .350 from 5 positions, Cox won’t play him enough to make an impact. Never has, never will.
While there have been some reasons to smile (McCann, Yunel, Prado, Soriano and most of the starting pitching) this is certainly not a playoff team. It is a .500 team. This franchise is willing to settle for a mediocre team, with a mediocre manager and mediocre attendance. In 2000, this was not acceptable. In 2009, it’s okay. Yawn.
This manager and/or GM is perfectly okay with a low-production 1st baseman, a head-case 2nd baseman (for the first 80 games, and last night), a fading 3rd baseman, a DH in LF, a big question mark in RF, and the most overused, coming-off-serious-surgery relief pitching squad in the history of baseball. Oh, and a # 1 pinch-hitter who would need a GPS to find his way around the bases.
It’s a .500 team, folks. And nobody in management is too upset about that. It’s what we do these days.
midnite
July 31st, 2009
11:38 am
Kawakami is like a tender, beautiful, fragile cut flower-nice at first but he wilts easily. I have no confidence whatsoever when Gonzo comes in now because you know he is gonna make it a misadventure.
Chris
July 31st, 2009
11:38 am
You know? It’s a good day when you have 4 Vents.
A great win it was, but there’s a bunch of work to do from here.
I’ve been thinking we need a big bat, but it looks like we’re not gonna get it. Damn shame.
Oh Boy! Oh Boy! Oh Boy!
July 31st, 2009
11:40 am
It’s like playing poker and trying to draw to an inside straight. Can it be done? Sure it can. Is it likely? No it’s not.
So trying to draw to the elusive inside straight, do you throw gobs of money and assets at a hand that has little chance of winning? Not if you’re a smart poker player you don’t.
The wild card to the Braves is like trying to draw to that inside straight. Can it be done? Sure it can. Is it likely? No, it’s not.
So since the reality of actually winning the wild card is remote at best, will someone please remind me why in the world we would want to spend young talent for some marginal upgrade who isn’t likely to hang around the ATL very long anyway?
If the Braves can win with the talent they have this year, give them a big pat on the back. If not, look to next year and try to better your team in the off season so that this time next year, you’re not looking at the world from 8 games back trying to decide if you should make a deal or not!
myra
July 31st, 2009
11:43 am
Barbaro(not sure if this is his name or the horse)(lol) in AAA can pinch hit better than Naughtin.
I loved Barbaro. The HBO special always brings out my hanky.
Bravosss
July 31st, 2009
11:45 am
Adam Price. Well said at 8:00am.
Jeff – You replied to his comment by saying the ‘whys’ have been addressed but you’re missing the two biggest ones IMO 1. Infante and Hudson coming back and 2. record since the break.
Is your point in all this that those reasons do not satisfy you? They’re good enough for me.
Chris
July 31st, 2009
11:48 am
Curtis Jones is correct on every point. If you’re an honest Braves fan, you’ve got to agree with him.
Jeff, any speculation on why the Braves are so reluctant to make a deal? Is Wren secretly thinking 2010 or later? Why are the Braves so complacent?
It feels like a long way from the 1990s.
zzzz at the deadline
July 31st, 2009
11:50 am
The Braves did make a move – they released Bennett!!!1
GTSteve
July 31st, 2009
11:50 am
Does anybody know the pitching matchups for this weekend
bry22
July 31st, 2009
11:51 am
The Braves could get a bat without giving up either of Freeman or Heyward. Although I would trade Freeman, Medlen and KJ for Padres Gonzalez in a heart beat. Church is not an upgrade over JF. We were tired of JF poor at bats and we will be tired of Churches poor hitting performance soon enough. I like his swing and he definitely works the pitchers better than JF. Who doesn’t. But he is not the bat we needed in the outfield to get past mediocrity!
All I'm Saying Is...
July 31st, 2009
11:52 am
First, what does it mean to add a ‘big bat’? Is it a slugger as in home run hitter? I think that is what Schultz was referring to by mistakenly citing Holliday and his mysterious 40 home runs. If that is true, then the Braves need for a big bat is over-rated. All you need to do is look at what adding Martin Prado (not a ‘big’ bat in terms of home runs) to the line-up did for the Braves.
The concern about middle relief is over-rated because of (a) roster expansion later this year immediately adds pitchers internally for the stretch run, (b) what has previously been posted about KK going to the bullpen during the playoffs, and (c) the fact that if our starters do their job, then middle relief is a non-issue.
Bottom line for the Braves is if we can continue to get consistent production at the plate to go with what our pitching has done all year, then we will be fine. And I hope we bring Brooks Conrad back up at the earliest opportunity (release Norton and let KJ be a pinch hitter, I say) and up for good when rosters expand.
As for Holliday, the Cardinals were desperate for someone, anyone to be a threat behind Pujols as he would (and probably still will) get intentionally walked every time. Believe it or not (and I know the Cardinals are 7 games over .500 and therefore better than us), the Braves don’t have that problem —- and if you don’t believe me just look at our average runs per game since Prado entered the line-up and since the All Star break (you will have to do your own research (or hope Schultz has a moment of inspiration) as I, unlike Schultz, don’t get paid for these pithy comments of mine).
LET’S GO BRAVES!
Don
July 31st, 2009
11:56 am
The point being missed is that all the moves the Braves made in preparation for this season and during this season and any they could possibly make are all pointless – wasted – As long as Bobby Cox is managing – It’s like pouring resources down the drain. With their Pitching talent, it is amazing that the Braves are not leading the Division. Cox does not even understand the first and most important fundamental of managing the offense – teaching/emphasizing/developing/demanding – working the count, making the opposing pitcher throw a lot of pitches. The Braves are next to last in all of baseball in average number of pitches seen per at bat – guaranteeing terrible run production. Baseball Writers either do not understand the significance of this or choose to protect Cox by ignoring it.
Don
July 31st, 2009
11:59 am
There is no mystery — The Braves do not need to “ADD” a bat, they need to “SUBTRACT” Bobby Cox.
NC Braves Fan
July 31st, 2009
12:00 pm
I think if you look at the McLouth trade as a template, you can kinda see why we haven’t made a deal here at the deadline. McLouth filled an immediate need on the roster, he came fairly cheap, and he’s still a few years away from free agency.
Those types of players are not widely available here in July – and the ones that may be are priced at a premium that the organization is not willing to pay.
It stinks in the short term because it most likely means the Braves are not going to the playoffs this year. But it also shows planning, discipline and commitment to the future that most likely will pay off not too far down the line.
Smooth
July 31st, 2009
12:05 pm
Jeff have you ever played any kind of Ball? If you dislike the Braves this bad, get out of town. Oh take Norton, Kelly Johnson, Acosta, and Jo Jo with you.
Toots
July 31st, 2009
12:06 pm
One of the best moves the Braves could make would be to cut Greg Norton loose and bring up Brooks Conrad. And I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t cost them very much either.
jfreak
July 31st, 2009
12:06 pm
We all need to relax and just wait and see how all this plays out. The Braves made a couple major moves in the offseason to better the club “Lowe” and a couple move during the season to further improve the club “Nate and Church”. We want to win now as all fans do but from a GM point of view the idea should be to build a team that can contend year after year and the way to do that is to keep your young prospects and sign quality free agents. Mid season trades require either giving up prospects for teams that a true chance at a world series to get impact players or for teams that have NO future they are generally sellers “pirates”.
We could use some bullpen help and I hope Wren can find something out there but if not oh well. Remember the Mets fell apart late last year so anything is possible. In the end I trust Wren to do what’s best for the team over the long haul.
Jeff Schultz
July 31st, 2009
12:06 pm
Stamper – Here’s the deal. Commenting passes through a few different filters. Sometimes, inexplicably, it gets caught in there and I have to go in periodically and approve the message, much like a SPAM filter. So I do that several times a day. If you sent your message multiple times, they all get released. But I can duplicate your original msg if you don’t want to read it twice. We cool?
Bvillebaron – Not saying Holliday is the end all/be all. But I’d be curious to know what it would’ve taken. Certainly not suggesting selling the farm.
Stamper (again): Hang in there, man. I’m just dealing with the software I’m given.
Midnite: Pretty funny. “Kawakami is like a tender, beautiful, fragile cut flower-nice at first but he wilts easily.” I missed that at his introductory press conference.
Chris (repeating): Money-2010-prospects (those are higher priorities).
ZZZZ: Lesson learned. It’s OK to punch a wall and break your hand, as long as you’re generally good enough to overcome your stupidity.
bry22
July 31st, 2009
12:11 pm
“Add a big bat means”, a player that will impact our team by increasing the runs per game averege! If the Braves could score more they would win more! Our pitching is far better than average but our hitting “runs scored” is not. Home run hitter? High average hitter? High RBI producer? All something Church is not!! KJ is not! To most degree Kotchman is not!
Chris
July 31st, 2009
12:15 pm
My bad on the repeat, Jeff – didn’t get to screen the hundreds of comments before I tossed in my questions.
Jeff Schultz
July 31st, 2009
12:22 pm
Bry22: Stand firm! (I think “All I’m saying” is in the on-deck circle).
Chris — No issues. The thing is, mgmt. is never going to say, “We don’t care about 2009.” They do care about 2009. But it’s easy to get a sense of priorities by their actions.
Snydes
July 31st, 2009
12:23 pm
Jeff –
How do you know that the Braves did not make inquiries about Holliday, Dunn, or any other player and determined that the asking price was too high? I think that management determined early on that they were not going to risk the future for a quick fix. Let’s face it, IF the Braves had traded 3-4 prospects for holliday, would we be that much better of a team?? No. The fact is, we are building for the future and if a playoff chase develops from our current roster, that is only a bonus.
And please, do NOT forget that we traded 3 prospects to the Pirates for McClouth. Just because it didn’t happen at the trade deadline doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
Gov. Clinton Tyree
July 31st, 2009
12:23 pm
This whole premise that the Braves “didn’t do anything to improve the club at the deadline” is false.
Wren got McLouth, a huge move, and while dealing for Church wasn’t a huge move, removing Francoeur was. Both those moves were earlier. That doesn’t mean Wren “did nothing to improve the club”.
Mark
July 31st, 2009
12:25 pm
I don’t understand all the Norton bashing. The guy is a pinch hitter with a career OPS of .758. He has been injured and is now trying to come back from that injury. Conrad is a good player but for some reason he couldn’t make the majors over nine minor league seasons. What makes us think he would be good at a pinch hitting role?
The issue I see with the Braves is still their outfield. Anderson is shown he can hit but there are two other positions that aren’t.
Nativebird
July 31st, 2009
12:25 pm
If Frank Wren thinks he doesn’t need to do anything else with this squad, he IS in la la land.
Braves are awash in starting pitching (with Hudson returing).
Braves are in the sorest need of a big hitting right handed power producer that I’ve ever seen.
Hmmm…
enter GM now.
mike arnone
July 31st, 2009
12:26 pm
let’s all get together, have a beer and stop acting “stupidly”
randyarnold
July 31st, 2009
12:30 pm
Why not move Mike Gonazlez, a left-handed reliever who will be a free agent after the season, for some prospects? It might make sense to move Rafael Soriano if you can get a really good deal, since he’s a FA at the end of the season. Just make sure you get quality prospects for him.
GTSteve
July 31st, 2009
12:33 pm
Does anybody know who is pitching Sunday night?
lee
July 31st, 2009
12:51 pm
the braves say they need bats hu?? well wasnt Conrad and blonco hitting, and they sent them down???? am i the only one that thinks that was NUTS??? and as far as the bullpen goes, did anyone ever think to tell cox that he has more than 3 pichers down there. acosta came in the other night and actually said to myself for a second ” who is that?” i had forgot about him being down there!!!! stop and think about it for a second–the main pichers cox has been using has been having arm problems!!! i wonder why???
i have an new idea!!! i think the reast of the guys down there should wear sandwich-boards down there to let cox know that they are down there!!! hey they can use christmas lights around it for night games!!!
HEY SKIP!!!!
I’M DOWN HERE
PLEASE USE ME TONIGHT!!!!!!
Bravedawg
July 31st, 2009
12:53 pm
GTSteve – Billingsley/Jurrjens, via braves.com. Great matchup.
Nativebird – who do you suggest Wren go after? What deal do you suggest he makes? I’m starting to get a little tired of all of the people saying “Go get a big bat!!” but not giving any indication of who we should go after (except for guys we can’t afford), or who we should give up.
Bravedawg
July 31st, 2009
12:55 pm
As someone mentioned above (I’m too lazy to even scroll up and give credit where it’s due), how do we know that Wren hasn’t tried to get the “big bat” that everyone is screaming for, and determined the price was too high? What if the A’s wanted Heyward and Freeman for 2 months of Holliday? We’re all entitled to our opinion, certainly, but jeez, guys…let’s temper the anger a little.
bob
July 31st, 2009
12:56 pm
I’m not going to suggest what the Braves should do because, frankly, I don’t know what I’m talking about (just like a lot of posters on the AJC). I believe Wren knows what he’s doing, so I’ll trust him to make the right call. My view on trading is that whoever we trade, that position will just become another hole. We might need a bat right now, so we might trade a pitcher, but then we need a pitcher. Just trading someone away will create a hole there so just trading away a good player will not really help us at all.
teeFROMbenHILL
July 31st, 2009
12:57 pm
i was telling a friend how nutz the braves are for not going after adrian gonzalez and trading kj, kotchman, medlen, and say freeman and one other piece and he said something pretty smart. Besides F the braves, he mentioned whats the point when we just had TEX who is better and we never really made much effort to re-sign him. they would probably just let him go in offseason anyway. but dam, that would be awesome, why count on freeman when u can get a great first basemen now for the future. oh well…pie in sky
GTSteve
July 31st, 2009
1:00 pm
thanks bravedawg, that is who i figured, i didnt know with the braves having the day off this past monday, i have tickets, trying to decide whether or not to go…..since they moved it to a night game
Kentavo
July 31st, 2009
1:00 pm
Seems to me the Giants and Braves were similar – but Giants addressed their offensive weaknesses whereas Braves did not.
I was hoping for acquisition of Holliday even if it was a rental situation.
I don’t know how we’re going to afford a bat next year without shedding some salary.
Charlie M
July 31st, 2009
1:01 pm
2009 vs 2010, You can not sell off the future just to make the playoffs this year unless the trade will give you an even or better chance to win the World Series. A “bat” may add enough to get this team into the playoffs, but this team is not good enough to go very far in the PO’s with one more bat. The “bat” would cost the Braves their immediate future. The Tex deal is costing the Braves now. Not that those prospects are shining in the majors right now, but we could have gotten more players in seperate deals instead of spending them all on one player. I beleive Wren is doing the right thing by keeping his eye on 2010 and beyond.
Skeezix
July 31st, 2009
1:07 pm
I would love to see a trade to beef up the bullpen and/or the offense…but I don’t think it will happen. Anyway, unless it’s a blockbuster deal for a big time hitter, it is probably be too late to help this year (and what would we have to give up?). So we may be looking at another dull post season for Braves fans.
Joe Fan
July 31st, 2009
1:10 pm
The Braves are at least making the remaining months interesting as long as they stay incontention for the WC. Much better than last year. They have already added a couple of pieces and will add two more when Hudson and Infante are activated. No more trades needed this year. The next few years though should prove entertaining with Heyward and Freeman coming on board plus possibly adding Cody Johnson. Any word on extending Cox’s contract?
KT
July 31st, 2009
1:20 pm
The best thing the braves ciould do at this point is bring back Conrad and send Johnson and Norton back to the minors, and pick up a good middle reliever.
Unusually Big Papi
July 31st, 2009
1:29 pm
I think Curtis Jones’ posting at 11:38 was the best so far – hit the nail square on the head.
this is way more than just July, 2009 or even 2010.
this is a fundamental – almost monumental – shift in how the current Atl Braves conduct business (yes – bidness), as opposed to the Braves of 10 or even 5 yrs ago.
standing pat (Mclouth is not a difference maker…not yet) in the midst of a pennant race would not have been an option in 2000 -much less a reality.
Schultz’s blog would have been entitled “of the 3 big moves Schuerholtz made, who do you think will help the Braves the most?”
it’s sad when the addition of a middle of the road reliever is all we can hope for.
and…why all the hype re 2010? Mgmt is really setting themselves up for disaster by putting all their “marbles” into 1 yr.
* Chipper will be 38, so he’ll be lucky to get 500 ab’s
* the league will learn not to pitch to Esco as he’s too dangerous
* GA’s legs will have fallen off & he’ll have to crawl to 1st
* the trio of Hudson, Javy & Lowe will be too expensive to keep, so at least 1 will be gone
* either Gonzo, Soriano or both will leave via FA
So, that leaves us w/Mac, Hanson & prado as the bright spots. the other guys everyone has mentioned (Heyward, Freeman, Schaefer?, etc) will get some PT but will still be too young to make a major impact.
I think 2011 is more realistic for the year of the Brave.
the only way to make 2010 much different than this yr is to make some major trades/changes in the offseason:
* adios to KJ, & put Prado at 2b F/T
* trade Huddy or KK (and maybe Medlen too) for a real outfield bat. Carlos Lee, Nelson Cruz, Carl Crawford (please!!), etc
* move CK for a 1B w/some pop….or
* move Mac to 1B & let Ross catch every day. dude can hit
* adios to Carlyle & Flaherty. we need power arms in the pen – not rubber arms
Good luck Frank – we’ll be watching.
Clay
July 31st, 2009
1:36 pm
I think the Braves are well positioned. If we can pick up a solid middle reliever, then great. But if not, I’ll bank on Hudson being able to contribute in someway when he comes back.
BrandonC
July 31st, 2009
1:45 pm
I think it’s all about 2010, any playoff birth this year is gravy in my opinion. I fully expect Wren to add a big bat come the offseason. This team is good enough to get the wildcard right now I believe, why make a major trade involving big prospects with the “hope” that we might catch the Phillies? I don’t think anybody is catching them this year. Heyward will be in the lineup in 2010 added with another big bat via trade and we are looking good, especially with the way our pitching staff is going to be built.
I hope they can make the playoffs, but we have all been saying that this team is being built for next year. Even Chipper has publicaly said that. It just doesn’t make any sense to make a major move right now…
Trainwreck
July 31st, 2009
1:56 pm
I like our team right now, and although I hope we make it to the playoffs, I would rather not make the playoffs and keep the remaining prospects we do have than to trade 3 top prospects for Holliday who if I’m not mistaked will be a free agent after this year ( but maybe I am mistaken) anyway, I am not disturbed by the lack of “deadline” deals because we have made some moves this year in acquiring McClouth and Church. Also, if we get into the playoffs some way, they say pitching wins WS and I’ll put our top 4 against anyone else’s anyday, especially if Huddy comes back strong. So, anything can happen
Bill Heller
July 31st, 2009
1:57 pm
This season’s been just another tease, it makes me sympathize with Charlie Brown – remember how many times Lucy yanked the football away from him right before he could kick it?
fieldofdreams
July 31st, 2009
1:57 pm
If Hudson comes back at full strength, you move KK to long relief. Replace KJ now with Brooks Conrad, and promote Heyward in September. You gotta shot at the wild card. It could happen.
Chipper Talks Like This
July 31st, 2009
2:01 pm
Uh, If it weren’t for bad luck, I’d have no luck at all. Uh, I guess Misery loves company and I hope that umpire gets a taste of his own medicine. He had Bobby caught between a rock and a hard place and then acted so Foot loose and fancy free. He better remember that there’s no such thing as a free lunch. I wouldn’t bump fists with an umpire for all the tea in China. When he comes to Atlanta he better not rock the boat. Uh,
KillerHohn
July 31st, 2009
2:18 pm
Mr. Schultz, it’s the second verse same as the first! Why make a trade just so you can say you made one. If the trades for players with any impact value whatsoever are a barometer to what is being asked, I wouldn’t make one either. I read this morning that what the Padres are asking for Adrian Gonzalez is more than what Toronto was asking for Roy Halladay. Gonzalez is the favorite name among Braves fans when it comes to proposed trades. So, you trade much of your future for hitter who does have a few roundtrippers but is either feast or famine and hits.240? Who are the other bats that are out there? Victor Martinez? They were asking for Jed Lowrie, Clay Buckholz and maybe Daniel Bard. So, we should trade Yunel Escobar, Tommy Hanson and Julio Teheran for Martinez? That’s a comparable trade. You see my point. Shaun pointed out in another blog that the Giants made two acquisitions in Ryan Garko and Freddy Sanchez and that they were both negligible moves. I concur. If those two moves mean the Giants win the Wild Card and the Braves don’t then Atlanta wasn’t as good as everyone thought they were in the first place. Adrian Gonzalez wouldn’t make that big of an impact IF the Giants are that much better. We tried the whole scenario of trading for a first baseman to carry this team to the playoffs and again I point out- I’m sure I’m not the only person who has lately- that it didn’t work out too good the first time.
KillerHohn
July 31st, 2009
2:22 pm
Unusually Big Papi, you really think that ANY of those “big” outfield bats are available? Carlos Lee is on a team that contends not just for the Wild Card, but for its division. Nelson Cruz the same thing. Reckon Tampa Bay will let go of Carl Crawford without demanding several top prospects? Nope.
All I'm Saying Is...
July 31st, 2009
2:25 pm
Hi Jeff. I’m back from lunch. Hmmm, hmmm, let’s see, from reading this Braves blog, blah, blah, blah…NOTHING’S CHANGED! 60 games to go, 7 back of the Phillies and 4 back in the wild card—-plenty of time to make the playoffs. We don’t need no stinkin’ big bat: we just need to keep scoring runs at the pace we have since the All Star break.
And you still haven’t done any additional research to back up your misguided position.
(By the way, I was impressed by your Roddy White posting — love it when sportswriters encourage athletes to dis-honor their contract and hold out for more bucks)
LET’S GO BRAVES!
Michael
July 31st, 2009
2:29 pm
Umm – the Braves did make a big move, they just did it months ago which has had a bigger impact that if they had waited until now.
It’s fine to be critical, but the Braves have acquired two top notch players in the less than a year that other GM’s didn’t even know were available. We’re not a big market anymore and we cannot make deals like Boston and NY.
Schultz sthinks
July 31st, 2009
2:37 pm
The Braves have put at least as much effort into the trading deadline as this boob puts into this blog.
“Hey, I know- pound out two paragraphs and then yet another list!
Hardly the content king.
Jason
July 31st, 2009
2:38 pm
Jeff, The problem, often times, with aquiring a veteran bullpen arm is the number of innings they have amassed already during the course of the season. It is often benenfial to go with a fresh arm from within your own system instead. Those innings and appearances tend to catch up eventually!
I am still puzzled as to why Kelly Johnson continues to get semi-regular playing time and Brooks Conrad labors in the minors! That makes no sense whatsoever.
I may be alone in this but im fine with the Braves not making a trade and waiting on future development of players.
Unusually Big Papi
July 31st, 2009
2:47 pm
Mr. Hohn –
yes, all 3 of those bats would be something of a longshot, but consider the following:
* Lee makes $19 mil, so it’s highly unlikely ATL would take him on w/out Hou eating some of that $. If they miss the PO’s this yr, then it’s not out of the realm that they’d listen to offers in order to shed payroll in the off-season. Plus, they need pitching, like virtually everyone else. So, something like Hudson, Medlen & Brandon Jones for Lee & a bullpen arm (and some $) ain’t that crazy
* Crawford makes “only” $8.2 million. As w/the Stros, the Rays need pitching (hell – they’re rumored to be in the mix for Halladay). We could offer them Huddy & Schaefer for CC & a prospect. You’d be a fool not to do that trade. For them to keep up w/the Sox & Yanks, they need pitching.
* Cruz is the wild-card. He only makes $400k – a steal for his production- but he’s unproven. only 3.5 yrs in the bigs, & this is by far his best yr. But, the Rangers have a glutton of offense & outfielders (Hamilton, Byrd, Blalock, Andruw, etc) & a major need for pitchers. So, I can see us giving them Huddy, some cash & maybe Blanco or Jones for Cruz & reliever CJ Wilson.
none of the above is close to a reality – yet.
I’m simply saying that w/the right teams & the right parts, you’re wrong to simply assume that all 3 are untouchable.
Crawford would be the crown jewel, IMO, b/c of his salary, his age, & especially his numerous other skills.
mudcat47
July 31st, 2009
2:54 pm
Toronto has a relief pitcher, Brandon Frasor that they are willing to trade. With a 2.13 ERA pitching in the A.L. East, he must have some pretty good stuff. Are you listening Mr. Wren?
Braves Fan in Dawg Country
July 31st, 2009
2:57 pm
I think Frank Wren has done a great job. The McClouth trade is as good as any at the deadline (well, possibly with the exception of the Phillies getting Cliff Lee for nothing), only they got him weeks earlier. I wasn’t a fan when they traded for Vazquez during the off season, but I was wrong. He has been spectacular. Holliday sounded good, but Garret Anderson has really turned it on lately and is now hitting above .300. Actually, checking the stats, Anderson is hitting .301 while Holliday is at .302. Holliday has 1 hr in his last 10 games, Anderson has 3. So I don’t think it would have been much of an upgrade, so why give away a lot of talent just to say you made a(nother) trade? And Adam Dunn? He has hit lots of hr’s, but if we wanted him, shouldn’t we have simply signed him during the off-season where we wouldn’t have to give up our prospects? I agree with what a lot of others have said … if you count Huddy and Infante as additions, then we will have upgraded our roster. Good Job Frank Wren!
thirdwheel3131
July 31st, 2009
2:58 pm
His name is Nate Mclouth. This is the major addition we needed and we made it when we should have.
There is no hitter out there that wouldn’t cost an arm and a Heyward.
Other than perhaps going after QUalls or Juan Cruz, there really isn’t an obvious upgrade.
Unless they can convince someone to take on Kawakami… Which is doubtful.
Yet for some reason there is a perception that if the Braves don’t make a move it’s a bad thing?
Why?
Sure the Phillies added Lee, but this is because after HAmels they have massive issues.
And it’s time for the BRaves to stop sending out their best prospects. If they can win the wild card, great. If not, they are set up for a good run next year — a run that will require the addition of 1 more real bat. Maybe Heyward will be ready.
But the idea that standing pat is like settling is ridiculous. If anything Wren has been more aggressive than anyone. He’s doing a great job and if they can stay healthy the wild card is for the taking.
Raphy "Witch Doctor" Soriano
July 31st, 2009
3:03 pm
If we didn’t have Tim Hudson and Omar Infante coming off rehab, everyone would say we should trade for Tim Hudson and Omar Infante. What’s the difference? BULA BULA!
Raphy "Witch Doctor" Soriano
July 31st, 2009
3:06 pm
Adam LaRoche back to the Bravos?
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/07/braves-interested-in-adam-laroche.html
the real Andy
July 31st, 2009
3:17 pm
i’m not at all down on Wren – i think he’s done a good job. But I thought we might get a reliever, and the clock is winding down. we simply cannot keep using our bullpen the way we have and then expect them to be effective at season’s end. Four pitchers have combined for 207 appearances – and three of those pitchers have had recent major arm surgery.
lee
July 31st, 2009
3:21 pm
they are saying now that if Boston Gets martinez from cleveland and if the Red Sox would make Adam LaRoche availiable–the Braves would like to bring him back to atlanta!!
the real Andy
July 31st, 2009
3:31 pm
a note on Cox’s overuse of Gonzalez – he uses him 3 games in a row against Colorado before the break, but then is forced to sit him for 10 days with tendinitis. As soon as he comes back, Bobby throws him out there for 4 out of the next 5 games, including putting him out there on back to back nights with a 6-run lead each time. He takes a line drive off the arm and is unavailable for 2 days. Then Bobby pitches him in 3 of the next 4 games.
To be clear, in the last 12 games in which Gonzalez has been at all available, Bobby has used him 10 times!!! While the guy is struggling with tendinitis. Criminal. I love Bobby, but his abuse of the bullpen this year is borderline senile.
Unusually Big Papi
July 31st, 2009
3:33 pm
KOtchman to Bos for LaRoche
http://www.nesn.com/2009/07/red-sox-adam-laroche-traded-to-braves-for-casey-kotchman.html?mtr
Unusually Big Papi
July 31st, 2009
3:36 pm
Kotchman goes to Boston for LaRoche…yes it’s true.
Steve From Dalton
July 31st, 2009
3:37 pm
Come on AJC- let’s get a report posted on the trade.
All I'm Saying Is...
July 31st, 2009
3:39 pm
See you later Kotchman! And he may be traded again given the glut the BoSox still have at first.
Meanwhile, somebody dig out the Ritalin pills for LaRoche.
…And once again, no one from the AJ/C sports writers asleep-at-the-switch-club reports anything to do with this trade…..Way to go Schultz, Bradley, Dave O’Brien, Carroll Rogers, etc. Do you guys ever break any story?
Rusty
July 31st, 2009
3:40 pm
Is Kotchman ever going to develope power?
All I'm Saying Is...
July 31st, 2009
3:41 pm
Check out this link to see how real sports journalists do their job:
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2009/07/trade_rumor_cen_1.html
And furthermore we don’t even have anyone at AJC.com to keep a running tally such as what is shown via the link above.
AJ/C: PATHETIC EXCUSE FOR A NEWSPAPER and WEBSITE!
Rusty
July 31st, 2009
3:41 pm
Didnt they break the Griffey Jr. story… They must be gun shy… Right Dave?
01HAWK
July 31st, 2009
3:49 pm
Welcome home Adam LaRoche for Kasey Kotchman. No need for LaRoche once BOSOX get Victor Martinez from Cleveland.
All I'm Saying Is...
July 31st, 2009
3:51 pm
Adam LaRoche’s numbers are stellar compared to the singles hitting 26 year old Casey Kotchman. The 29 year old La Roche (he’ll turn 30 in November) had 32 HRs and 90 RBIs in 2006, last full season with the Braves. 21 HRs and 88 RBIs in 2007 with the Pirates and 25 HRs and 88 RBIs in 2008 with Pirates. His career average is .269 and his hitting is off this year at .248 (but he has 13 homers or double CK’s total) — hopefully, plopping him into the Braves line-up will easily improve that.
At first glance, this looks like a smart and opportunistic move by Wren. Way to go Frank!
LET’S GO BRAVES!
All I'm Saying Is...
July 31st, 2009
3:54 pm
Boston Globe also reports that the Braves picked up a million dollars in cash along with LaRoche for Kotchman.
AD
July 31st, 2009
3:56 pm
Where’s the word Schultzie, too busy covering #7? JK, but seriously though, lets get a report. Will he play tonight?
Unusually Big Papi
July 31st, 2009
3:58 pm
maybe the title “Standing Out by Doing Nothing” referred to the AJC beat writers, JS in particular?
hmmm…
it really wasn’t very hard to find this info – all you need is a computer, web access (even dial-up would work), & the ability to spell.
in their defense, perhaps they have a clause about reporting trades until they are absolutely official??
apparently no such clause exists for the Boston writers.
DerrickT
July 31st, 2009
4:00 pm
I’m stunned that its 4:00 PM and you guys have yet to update your website to make note that we have brought back Adam LaRoche ! Come on AJC….
the real Andy
July 31st, 2009
4:00 pm
Kotchman in July .320, 4 HR, 13 RBI, .934 OPS
LaRoche in July .169, 2 HR, 6 RBI, .502 OPS
Kotchman for the season .764 OPS
Rochy for the season .772 OPS
Is this an upgrade? I’m confused.
Tom
July 31st, 2009
4:02 pm
It makes more since to make your deal a few weeks early instead of waiting until the last min when your going to give up the most, I think that is what the Braves did, they did there dealing early and didn’t have to give up an arm to get a finger.
who cares
July 31st, 2009
4:02 pm
Doesn’t matter at this point what the braves do or dont do at trade deadline. There is nobody out there that will make this team better than a 500 team. Besides it wouldnt matter, because until Cox and crybaby chipper are gone, this is what braves fans will be stuck with. It was good to see Cox’s boy Kelly Johnson make another error last night that would have lost the game if not for McCann. It was also good to see Cox’s other boy chipper make a pitiful attempt to field a ground ball, by showing off his athleticism and almost fall down. Im sure he will be out of the lineup the next 2 games because hes not accustomed to moving without pulling something. And lastly, it was good to see cox’s third favorite player, Gonzo come in and give up a single, walk a couple of batters, and once again ruin an awesome pitching performance by a starter that certainly deserves better than to have this clown blow it for him once again. How many times does a manager have to watch kelly johnson to realize he is not a major league player, and how many times does a manager have to have Chipper crybaby jones sit by him on the bench to realize this guy is no leader. Hey bobby, why not make the clown a coach, he sits by you more than leo did. And lastly, how many times does a manager have to watch this pathetic reliever Gonzo walk or hit the first batter he faces. Oh lets see, now his excuse is he couldnt grip the ball. Give me a break, did the starting pitcher have trouble gripping the ball in the heat and humidity for 7 innings. This guy doesnt have it, and everyone knows it but dumbbbbbb bobby cox. This guy is one of the worst relievers in baseball when it comes to retiring the first batter he faces, and even worse, he is at the bottom of the league in allowing inherited runners to score. Yet good ole cox, doesnt seem to know this. Face it braves fans, you are stuck with this 500 team until this moron bobby cox is gone. Until then, continue to watch kelly johnson kick balls all over the place, and continue to watch cry baby taking every 2 or 3 days off, and continue to watch gonzo walk, hit, or allow the first batter he faces to get hits.
All I'm Saying Is...
July 31st, 2009
4:03 pm
lee
July 31st, 2009
3:21 pm
Over 40 minutes since your post about the Kotchman/La Roche deal and still nothing from the AJ/C…..tell me why I was my time with this paper and website again? Anyone? Little help, here….
ranger
July 31st, 2009
4:06 pm
NOt sure I would not just as soon keep Kotchman til Freddie gets here. It is a chemistry thing, and I do in some ways mean Adam’s lack of concentration at time. But do remember he is a second half sort of guy.
My vote keep the Kochy unless ths Sox throw in smthing worthwhile like……….?????
All I'm Saying Is...
July 31st, 2009
4:06 pm
who cares: Given the length of your post, I’m guessing that you do still care. But if you don’t, do us all a favor and shove off because, I know one thing, and that is Bobby Cox ain’t going anywhere. Now don’t misunderstand: you don’t have to like Bobby and sometimes many of us don’t, but he’s ours so, for my sake, please move on or at least talk about things that might happen…..like the Braves winning the wild card in 2009! Yeah!
LET’S GO BRAVES!
the real Andy
July 31st, 2009
4:07 pm
two of the slowest braves in recent history traded for each other. if we could only have worked sid bream and johnny estrada into the deal somehow….
All I'm Saying Is...
July 31st, 2009
4:10 pm
Ranger: Deal is done, my friend. BoSox threw in $1 million and that’s it…
the real Andy: Good research, sir. Let’s hope La Roche pulls it together in the second half now that he is on a winning team and a team that wants to win (Pirates leadership gave up when they traded Nate (although they denied it) and they have clearly given up now and all the players there want out). If you saw my post, La Roche’s hitting history shows he’s been consistently a much better batter than what we’ve seen so far in 2009. Hopefully, he’s matured a bit since his first go-round with the Braves and focus won’t be an issue.
JR
July 31st, 2009
4:17 pm
I’ll take the sid bream, johnny estrada and bruce benedict trifecta, please.
Roy Hobbs
July 31st, 2009
4:23 pm
You have to be kidding. A steadily improving, 26 year old gold glove 1B for a 29 year old that cant hit .250 and has already been shipped out of ATL once?
Where is the upside. Seriously. So many nice little moves to get better at bats, and now this trade moving a guy who works the count and has shown real improvement for a guy who closes his eyes and swings for the fence.
HORRIBLE TRADE. Just adding an easy out back into the lineup.
bry22
July 31st, 2009
4:36 pm
Now that the trading deadline is over. We have what we have. LaRoche is a minor upgrade in power at first. About the same defensively. I know Casey has not made an error in a year! Adam is a good 2nd half hitter, is faster, hit for more power. All in all a minor upgrade. Now cut Norton loose, bring up Conrad and let’s see if we can fight for Wildcard berth.
ijudgenot
July 31st, 2009
4:38 pm
Hobbs, I can’t agree more. this is a downgrade for the Braves Laroache has the “sweet swing” because it is always the same. The pitcher has to hit his bat for him to be succesfull. The Braves now have another hole in the lineup. A good pitcher will be able to pitch around Mac or Anderson to get to this esay out. The Braves raped the Pirates when that got Gonzales and Lillibridge for Laroache, now Boston has gotten revenge for Pittsburg. I was just getting comfortable with Wren’s decisions, but this is pathetic. Silver lining is it makes spring trainfing much easier for Freeman to make the team next year..
Javy Lopez/Vazquez
July 31st, 2009
4:42 pm
Simple. Another NO IMPACT trade! LaRoche a difference maker??? HELL NO! A waste of time, sure he has SOME power but he’s slow as hell, has a lower avg., & daydreams that he’s off hunting in the woods with Chipper, plus another lefty bat, Booby musta pulled the trigger on this one! DUMB!
TSmiley7
July 31st, 2009
4:50 pm
LaRoche is easily better than Kotchman. Everyone has been crying all year about Frank Wren doing nothing to stimulate our power outage despite trading for McLouth, Church, and now Ad. LaRoche. LaRoche is just as solid a defender, hits lights out in the 2nd half every year and provides power at a position where we haven’t had any. Everyone has been screaming at Wren to trade Kotchman the past 3 weeks over Jeff and Marks’ articles. Kotchman is gone in return for a better player PLUS the Sox picked up the $4.2 million excess in salary between Rochey’s $7.05 and Kotch’s $2.885. Quit crying and shooting down everything Frank Wren or Bobby Cox does. You guys must be Philly fans
TSmiley7
July 31st, 2009
4:55 pm
Great move Wren! 3rd one this year. Keep it up!
(PS) In addition to my earlier post: We have to make trades like this to keep up with the Phils who are making moves. Seriously guys? Hating on your own team who has a very legit chance at reaching the playoffs? When did you start cheer/booing for the Filthydelphia Braves?
TSmiley7
July 31st, 2009
4:57 pm
Javy L/V: It’s not another lefty bat. We didn’t trade a righty for LaRoche
the real Andy
July 31st, 2009
5:00 pm
hey guys, could we retire the term ‘raped’ when talking about trades? it’s just so harsh, it hurts my sensitive little ears. if we need a stronger word than robbed, how about we go with “Enron-ed” or “donkey-punched” or something.
Boy we sure Enron-ed the Tigers on that JJ deal.
It’s starting to look like the Rangers really donkey-punched us on that Tex trade.
Anybody got other suggestions?
the real Andy
July 31st, 2009
5:02 pm
It sure seems like we AIG’d the Pirates on that McClouth trade
the real Andy
July 31st, 2009
5:04 pm
Anybody remember the Len Barker deal? Boy, Cleveland sure “New Yankee Stadium ticket price-d” us on that one
the real Andy
July 31st, 2009
5:06 pm
In the long run, we sure took Detroit’s lunch money and gave them a wedgie on the Smoltz trade
the real Andy
July 31st, 2009
5:08 pm
blog ate this post last time, so i’ll try again…
In the long run, we sure took Detroit’s lunch money and gave them a wedgie on the Smoltz deal. (or maybe we could just shorten it to “we wedgied them”)
the real Andy
July 31st, 2009
5:10 pm
hmm blog keeps eating my post…..
In the long run, we sure took Detroit’s lunch money and gave them a wedgie on the Smoltz deal (or maybe we could just shorten it to “wedgied them”)
Larry A
July 31st, 2009
5:16 pm
Seriously like the trade, it is good for everyone. Kotchman will have much more success in Fenway with his swing. LaRoche adds some desperately needed power. Both are good fielders, it is just a smart move by both teams and I think the Braves definitely upgraded.
Unusually Big Papi
July 31st, 2009
5:29 pm
as long as LaDouche doesn’t bring the same attitude (ADD or not) that he had 4 yrs ago, it should be ok.
he knows Bobby & Bobby knows him…that’s a plus I think.
besides, he’s just keeping the spot warm for FF until middle of next yr at the latest.
Ed Glennon
July 31st, 2009
5:32 pm
It is so great the get rid of Kotchman. It is also good to get Sleepy LaRoche back. I guess Overpaid Tex is really laughing now. I am glad wren pulled the trigger and made the trade. Wren has done a good job this year.
LWells2000
July 31st, 2009
5:46 pm
So the Braves traded tit for tat. So what~?
Craig
July 31st, 2009
7:34 pm
To summarize. We pretty much traded 5 great prospects to Texas and over the years only ended up with Mike Gonzalez and LaRoche back???? I don’t get it!!!!
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