Deadline approaches but Braves not in all-or-nothing mindset
Chipper Jones hit a two-run homer in Monday's 11-3 win over San Francisco. But is all this too late to catch Philadelphia in the East? (Curtis Compton/ccompton@ajc.com)
The meat of the comment sounded like a concession speech, which really wasn’t Chipper Jones’ intent. But when you play for a .500 team going into game No. 93 and the team ahead of you in first place is starting to resemble the one from last October, a sense of realism sets in.
“We’re not going to be sellers, I don’t think,” Jones said early Monday when asked about how the Braves should approach the trade deadline. “We’ve been buyers to this point, adding pieces here and there. But I think we’ve got our eyes toward next year and the year after, and whatever comes this year is gravy. I don’t mean that we’re waving the white flag this year by any means. But we got off to a relatively slow start, and the Phillies are what they are. They’re the world champs, they’re playing well right now and it’s going to be hard to catch them.”
The trade deadline is in 10 days. Depending on your level of optimism, the Braves are either in contention for the National League East, in contention for the wild-card spot or in contention for special early October fares to the Bahamas.
Do they buy, maybe giving up pitcher Javier Vazquez for another bat?
Do they sell, maybe giving up pitcher Javier Vazquez for another bat — for next April?
Does general manager Frank Wren stare at an 8×10 glossy of Yunel Escobar for several hours and hope an answer comes to him like some revelation in a burning bush (preferably before his head explodes)?
Does he do nothing of significance, which probably is the betting favorite and the smartest course of action? (It neither mortgages the future nor sends the wrong message to players and fans, given it’s a seller’s market right now.)
Wren isn’t saying what he’s going to do. I think because he doesn’t know what he’s going to do. I think because he doesn’t know how to categorize the team’s post-season hopes.
Question to Wren: buying or selling?
“There’s so many us who are still in this thing, one way or another.”
Question: OK. But buying or selling?
“We’re playing better. We feel good about the way we’re performing.”
OK. Let’s simplify this: Are you sellers?
“I don’t think we’ll be selling. I sure hope not. I mean, something drastic would have to happen for us to be selling.”
Solid pitching, improved hitting, and we still don’t know what to think. Yes – as Jones said, things look pretty good for next season. But it’s still July. Are you ready to shift your mindset to next April? Or have the past few seasons made that easier to accept?
They won again Monday — this time 11-3 over San Francisco. Suddenly they’re scoring and they’re winning (this makes eight out of 11). They’re now only 3 1/2 games behind San Francisco in the wild-card race. But that’s an eight-team scramble. Those things are iffy. In the division race, they’re still 6 1/2 games behind Philadelphia (which has won 13 of 14). Before the Braves got hot, they were only five back. Go figure.
It was early June when they shredded the blueprint. Since then, they’ve sent down Jordan Schafer, traded for Nate McLouth, called up Tommy Hanson, sent down Kelly Johnson, traded Jeff Francoeur for Ryan Church and watched Martin Prado turn into Rogers Hornsby The makeover is basically done.
Guarded optimism reigns.
“We’re not sellers – we’re not selling anything,” Bobby Cox said.
Jones said he’s encouraged.
“The lineup is better. We don’t have [easy] outs any more,” he said.
But the margin for error remains thin and the deficit in the division is growing, and Jones acknowledged, “When we play the really good teams, our margin for error is so small.”
The understanding being, they’re still not one of the really good teams and whatever comes this season is gravy. But they’re making it interesting.
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180 comments Add your comment
Lieutenant Dan
July 20th, 2009
9:11 pm
We have little Frankie Wren running the ship. We are still trying to salvage the mess he left behind in Baltimore. Wait and see Braves fans Wren is one of these guys where there is always an excuse and nothing very good ever happens. Look up the word medicore and there stands Frank. Looking for middle of the pack he is your guy. Never proactive always reactive and is not I repeat a visionary for the future. But here he is little Frankie Wren in Atlanta.
Sage of Blueland
July 20th, 2009
10:22 pm
I normally don’t like you, Jeff, but if you just made a reference to Raiders of the Lost Ark, I may have to reconsider. I wonder if any of the Atlanta sports sheep, I mean “fans,” caught that?
Suckers.
admiral j
July 20th, 2009
10:24 pm
frank was only gm in baltimore .that mess is /was not his.that mess belongs to no other than peter angelos , the owner
mikeingray
July 20th, 2009
10:24 pm
Wren is better than Lt speaks of…not perfect…no GM is when the purse strings are tied and options are limited by availability and monies…nothing major needed at this point anyway…a Juan Pierre from LA Dodgers give us a solid leadoff and LF and sparks our lineup for minimal $$$ and/or players..with Manny in place, Juan is no longer needed..Diaz would be great backup in LF/RF…maybe Garret goes to LA in return…who knows…definitely keep Vazquez..a true performer…keep Escobar…a true clutch hitter and strong SS…keep Kelly..he’ll come around and can certainly be one of the most productive hitters we have with power to boot…
Greek Dawg
July 20th, 2009
10:25 pm
Thanks for the optimism Chipper. Should we stop watching and look forward to next year? UFB!
We have a team that’s doing what we ask them to do. Leave them alone. If you want to look to next year, make sure you don’t trade Freeman or Heyward.
Charlie
July 20th, 2009
10:25 pm
All Fran Wren has done is get rid of the dead weight Smoltz, Glavine, and Frenchy, and assembled one of the best starting rotations in baseball. He also somehow made a trade for an Allstar outfielder with a good contract that dropped jaws of other GMs. But yea, he is terrible.
admiral j
July 20th, 2009
10:25 pm
left out for one year only oops.
Jman
July 20th, 2009
10:26 pm
Only thing we need at this point is a decent veteran arm in the ‘pen to give some extra rest to the rubber arms out there.
HAL
July 20th, 2009
10:27 pm
i hope some of you knocking wren have ml extra innings and are watching icon smoltz blow up yea wren should have broke the bank for a broken down 40 something with a bad arm lol atlanta fans amaze me with there non knwledge of the game
chance
July 20th, 2009
10:29 pm
i don’t understand this talk about trading javy. he’s our second best if not best pitcher and someone we traded tyler flowers for. why the urgency to trade him? i mean he has really flourished in atl.
The_Superhoo
July 20th, 2009
10:29 pm
Wasn’t really a Raiders reference…more like a straight biblical one
Whatever.
Anyway, I think the Braves SHOULD be buyers, but we don’t really have any currency I’m comfortable parting with. Just say NO to trading Heyward/Freeman!
Jman
July 20th, 2009
10:29 pm
Amen Hal!!!
HAL
July 20th, 2009
10:30 pm
charlie save your breath or your typing finger they are all of the opiion that only the genius js knew baseball and the tex trade was superb nuff said lol
Greek Dawg
July 20th, 2009
10:31 pm
Speaking of needing a veteran arm in the pen, what about Huddy? May be a great way to get him back into the game without putting pressure on the new arm. He’s also there for an unexpected need.
Coach (2010 or Bust)
July 20th, 2009
10:31 pm
Some once said that repeating the same thing over and over is by definition, insanity.
It would be close to the same description to believe our Braves have any chance at the playoffs right now. As Dennis Green would say “they are who we thought they were” as in the defending World Champions Philadelphia Phillies.
Yes, the offense has finally awakened to back up our playoff caliber pitching. But that sentence is the only place I can use the “P” word when ascribing it to our Braves. We had our opportunity to win this division back in April, May and June. The dog days of July and August have and will hit home.
Sellers ? No. Buyers? not that either and going nowhere fast. The same could and has been said about this team since 2006. The beat goes on and the drum is getting damned annoying!
bruce
July 20th, 2009
10:31 pm
I am hopeful. I also hope we are not selling.
jtb3
July 20th, 2009
10:32 pm
anyone know how long vazquez and mcclouth are under contract? i know all the talk about future cf is centered around schafer, but is he really a better player than mcclouth?
Charlie
July 20th, 2009
10:35 pm
Hal, Wren was not the GM when they did the Tex Trade. He did give up Hanson for Peavy either. Another good move. The fact is, I can’t see a bad move he has made. Kawakami is the only questionable one, but it looks like he is going to work out too. Even the Left Fielder (can’t think of his name) was a pretty good move.
Da Braves
July 20th, 2009
10:37 pm
Javy needs to be traded when his value is at its peak. Prospects or a slugger who cares… We have the hottest commodity in baseball; a starting pitcher who fits in at the top of any rotation. If we can flip Vazquez for 3 top prospects we will be better off in the long run and have a great ROI for Tyler Flowers. Lets capitalize now and be better off in the long run.
Charlie
July 20th, 2009
10:38 pm
Coach, July and the dog days of August are when divisions are won, it is when the starting pitching always starts to take over, when teams without it fall apart.
Did you not watch the braves between 1991 and 2005?
The Colonel
July 20th, 2009
10:41 pm
Stand down Lt. Dan! Say what you will about Frank Wren but the guy is getting things done. He may not be popular for some of the moves made but he is doing what he can. You can’t rebuild the rotation AND build a murderers row lineup in one season…not without spending Yankee money, which Liberty Media aint got. The problemwith the Braves has been Cox. Cox has let mediocrity and failure become commonplace in the clubhouse before literally HAVING to put Prado in the lineup before Frank shipped Jeffrey No-Hit to Choke York. This lineup is good enough to get to the playoffs as is, if Cox doesn’t burn up the bullpen and remembers he’s in charge and starts holding players accountable for executing the fundamentals, like a good manager should. No, Frank has done a good job putting a good team together, built on strong starting pitching. It up to Cox to get the right combination out on the field. The question is does Cox remember what it takes to win?
mike
July 20th, 2009
10:41 pm
On Wren, I agree with Charlie. Give the man some freakin’ cred. I like what we have, what we’re doing, and where we’re going. Even Bobby is coming around; he’s trying to do a few more little things instead of just waiting for 3 run homers. I say keep what we have for the year; but when an upgrade comes around (like a big bat), take it.
And for God’s sake, don’t trade Vasquez or Escobar.
Richard Gray
July 20th, 2009
10:41 pm
Everyone needs to chill out. It’s just July and we’re playing our best baseball. Sure the Phillies are hot but it’s OK as long as we continue to win. I also do not like all the hate pointed towards Frank Wren. He’s done a phenomenal job at re-establishing our starting rotation with no down time. Sometimes I don’t think Braves fans realize how good they have it.
Steven L.
July 20th, 2009
10:42 pm
Braves look great right now. Chipper is right, this line-up has no easy outs. No, it won’t be like this the rest of the season… but neither will it go back to how it was the first few months. This is a team that should be better next year while fighting for the Wild Card this year.
My only concern is that we have 6 starting pitchers and 5 slots when Hudson comes back. If we can move one and get a BIG bat with power, then yes, do it. Why not? Otherwise, stand pat because this is one of the better teams in baseball.
scottbravesfan
July 20th, 2009
10:43 pm
we finally got our lineup straight so why would they sell now? I would hold to be honest with you. I think the Braves are good enough to battle for both the division and the wild card. Do you really think the Giants or the Rockies are that much better than the Braves? The Phils are playing above their heads right now and will come back down to earth. They will have streaks like this because their offense is so good but their pitching will let them down sooner or later.
Bob in SF
July 20th, 2009
10:45 pm
I love it when Oriole fans try to blame all the losing of the last 15 years on anyone but Peter Angelos.
Greek Dawg
July 20th, 2009
10:45 pm
I agree with R Gray. My gripe is with the BS statement from Chipper. If he’s our leader, where is leading us????
Charlie
July 20th, 2009
10:46 pm
Trade Huddy if you can dump him, keep Javy, the guys is a stud. Yea, we go too much pitching, Wren is horrible.
Steven L.
July 20th, 2009
10:49 pm
The pitcher we need to trade is Lowe. At $15 million a season, for three more seasons, trading him makes WAY more sense then keeping him since Hudson is coming back. However, I don’t want another bat because anyone we can get for Lowe probably is not much better than what we have now. I just want to fee up the money to keep what we got or make a move in the off season for a free agent OF or 1B.
count_schemula
July 20th, 2009
10:50 pm
I don’t even get this talk about trading Javier. After his complete game loss he became the man on this team. He was ticked off. I think it rubbed off. I like the O now that Frenchy is gone and Prado is starting. A lot of people think that Church just needs to play and he’s a .280 20HR 80+ RBI guy whi will turn in better ABs than Frenchy night in and night out. We don’t have the big bat, but we don’t have the dead bats anymore either.
misterwax
July 20th, 2009
10:50 pm
Hitting seems to be coming on stronger and more balanced from 1-8 in the line-up and this is really valuable….I am not a manager, but if I would do one thing it would be for Bobby Cox to modify his 100 pitch count rule a bit …..the bullpen has given up too many leads in the 7th and 8th…they just fold some nights…so let starters go 118–125 pitches deep as long as they hold the lead……then they will get hot and mow them down, Phillies included. just 1 man’s opinion.
Raker
July 20th, 2009
10:51 pm
So divisions are won in April-June? Ask the Mets about that. I agree with Charlie, it is all about starting pitching in the Dog days. I like the position, the Phillies are tuff, but if the Braves keep getting good starting pitching, they will be there.
Steven L.
July 20th, 2009
10:51 pm
I agree Count. I really like Church long term. What we need now is a first basemen or left fielder with some pop. But I can wait for next season for that.
WK
July 20th, 2009
10:52 pm
I don’t think there will be any big moves. And any move should be made with an eye to the future. Kotchman looks like the weakest link. Perhaps the Braves could pick up a right hand bat like Ryan Garko for KJ or maybe Jo Jo. That would give them some power and a right hand option at 1st, He could help hold 1st. until Freeman is ready, hopefully sometime next year.
PTC DAWG
July 20th, 2009
10:52 pm
What’s wrong with gravy?
Frank Wren
July 20th, 2009
10:54 pm
The Truth !!! You cant handle the truth !!! You want me on that phone … You need me on that phone !!!!!!
Charlie
July 20th, 2009
10:55 pm
Not sold on Church, but he shows up get good ABs and does not Sulk, addition by subtraction. Not only that, they saddle a team in our own division with a cancer. Wren is Genius.
Coach (2010 or Bust)
July 20th, 2009
10:56 pm
Hey Charlie, did you not take math in school? Or did playing hooky appeal to your wilder side?
The defending Word Champion Philadelphia Phillies are on pace to win 93 or more games right now. In order for our Braves to even match 93 wins, we would have to finish the remaining 69 game schedule by winning 46 and losing just 23. Or I could have just said we have to play .666 caliber baseball the rest of the way. Which in and of itself is simply absurd.
Dude, it’s over and you need to pull the cobwebs from out between your ears.
Steven L.
July 20th, 2009
10:56 pm
If the Braves HAD to make a move, like someone put a gun to our heads, then I agree that Kotchman is the weakest link. Someone like Adam Dunn with 40 homers would be nice at first. His power and high on base percentage make him an ideal clean-up hitter. We’d have high OBP for our first FIVE hitters. All of a sudden the Braves would have one of the scariest offenses in the National League to go with the best starting rotation in baseball.
Brownie
July 20th, 2009
10:56 pm
Lt. Dan: you’re not even close in your comments about Wren. The Braves are exactly where they should be because of the horrible short-term moves made by John Schuerholz. HE’s the one who in the last few years of his tenure kept trading away our farm system to bring in a bunch of rental players (e.g. Drew, Castilla, Renteria, Wickman, Sheffield, and finally the worst trade of all…Tex).
None of those teams were built to win a world series, but they did manage to squeak out a couple more division titles…now if that’s your goal then great job JS. But I think FW has his sights on long-term success, and his moves so far have been spot-on.
After ‘08, the Braves could NOT justify spending any money on question marks at pitching and letting Smoltz go was the right move. This year they had Moylan, Gonzo, and Soriano all coming off surgery – throwing partial year hurlers Smoltz and Glavine in would have been poor use of a tight budget.
I think the only real mistakes Wren has made were talking to Glav in the first place, and letting Josh Anderson go.
So, buyers this year…NO, unless it’s for high AA or AAA prospects that will help us next year. We don’t need anymore rental players with expiring contracts.
If FW is inclined to trade anyone, then you have to analyze what asset brings the greatest return. The Braves have no position players anyone would want, except for Mac and Esco – and both of those should be untouchable.
That leaves pitching. The Braves have the luxury of 2 closers, and a playoff contending team would likely love to add a big arm at the back end of their rotation, especially a lefty. So, IF it could bring a prospect or two I would strongly consider moving Gonzo (I like Soriano a lot more and he’s more dependable).
As far as starters go, Hanson and JJ are here to stay, and Huddy has no real trade value coming off Tommy John, and KK (who is better than people are giving him credit for) won’t bring much in return because he’s not considered a #1, 2 or 3 for a playoff contending team.
That leaves Lowe and JV. I would rather trade Lowe, but Vasquez will bring more in return…at least 2 really good prospects (Salty or Andrus level). He probably is our best pitcher right now, BUT he has never pitched this well and probably won’t sustain it (but if he does we won’t be able to afford him after next year anyway), so his trade value is at a peak RIGHT NOW (not after the season).
Freeman and Hayward are coming, but are about 2 yrs away from real contribution. Chipper is in decline, so we’ll need a replacement ready in a year or so.
FW: bring in prospects.
Greek Dawg
July 20th, 2009
10:57 pm
How in the world can you numbnuts think that we have too much pitching? Nobody has too much pitching. Where are you going to put another bat? We moved Escobar to 5-6. Who are you going to sit? There is never too much pitching. Wren has shown an ability to get the bats we need. He cannot hit for them. We have outstanding starting pitching. We cannot pitch Moylens, Gonzo and Soriano more than three nights in a row. ANother rm would help there. I say its Gonzo.
The Colonel
July 20th, 2009
11:00 pm
The guy we need to dump is Lowe, not Vasquez. Although Lowes salary makes him harder to turn, but maybe the Yankees, Angels or Rangers will get desperate.
If you don’t think we are sitting in the catbird seat with our pitching, you don’t know baseball. EVERYBODY NEEDS PITCHING!!!
Charlie
July 20th, 2009
11:00 pm
Coach, so because they are on pace means that they are going to do it? Injuries, slumps, etc are always possible. Braves don’t need to worry about them, if they keep getting good pitching, they will be in the hunt, that is all I am looking for.
Coach (2010 or Bust)
July 20th, 2009
11:03 pm
Right, we can never have enough pitching but then again, Lowe + Jurrjens + Vazquez + Kwakami + Hanson + Hudson = SIX starting pitchers. Somebody has to and WILL BE TRADED. PERIOD.
Charlie
July 20th, 2009
11:06 pm
Better not Trade Javy, Hanson (not gonna happen) or JJ. Kawakami and Lowe next to impossible to move, that makes Huddy the odd man out. Regardless, too many arms is a good problem to have.
Coach (2010 or Bust)
July 20th, 2009
11:07 pm
OK Charlie, I’ll put it this way. Even if you are counting on the Phillies suddenly falling apart and playing .500 baseball the rest of the way, they would still win 88 games. We would have to play .594 baseball to finish with 88 wins. which again, is absurd.
Charlie
July 20th, 2009
11:08 pm
So, it is next to impossible to come back from 6 1/2 back with 2 months to go, when we have a dozen head to head games? You have not watched much baseball, have you?
Charlie
July 20th, 2009
11:12 pm
And I remind you, the Braves are playing over 700 thier last 14 games, so, yes, it is very possible to play 600 over the next 45 games. The Phillies have played close to 1000, they are due to cool off. We could be a game out in a week.
Coach (2010 or Bust)
July 20th, 2009
11:13 pm
Tim Hudson is the best pitcher the Braves have injured or healthy. Twelve game huh? and the other 57 don’t count. I ain’t gonna argue with this absurdity anymore. As Gump would say “stupid is as stupid does”.
The Colonel
July 20th, 2009
11:16 pm
Coach, if the Braves get the pitching they have been getting,they can easily win 88 games. The problem is it took Cox 90 games to figure out what lineup to put on the field. We CAN get into the playoffs, but its going to be hard to catch Philly.
Charlie
July 20th, 2009
11:18 pm
Coach, You are a complete idiot. Because, as we all no, teams never ever come back from 6 1/2 game over the final two month, never happened before.
Greek Dawg
July 20th, 2009
11:20 pm
Thank you Charlie. Pass that on to Chipper.
If “EVERYBODY NEEDS PITCHING” only a numbnut (sorry,again) wants to trade pitching. We won 14 years in a row, with the holy trinity and new guys every year or two. God forbid, but we will lose someone off the mound to injury, then what do we do. There is NEVER TOO MUCH PITCHING. That’s how we won before and that’s how we will again.
Charlie
July 20th, 2009
11:20 pm
And Hudson sucks, never did live up to his salary, ship him out if we can find someone dumb enough to take him.
WindyCityDawg
July 20th, 2009
11:22 pm
Sit tight, sit tight. Huddy will be back and we can still contend for the wild card. Good young team for next year, even assuming this year doesn’t end in the playoffs.
Charlie
July 20th, 2009
11:24 pm
The only teams that trade quality pitching are teams that are out of it and looking to dump salary. You can never have too much.
Charlie
July 20th, 2009
11:26 pm
Windy City, I agree 100%, if they chase the Phillies, maybe they catch them, maybe not, but if we keep getting good pitching, we can get within reach of the wild card for sure.
Richard Gray
July 20th, 2009
11:29 pm
There’s no need to make any more moves. We have a team poised to make the playoffs. You can never have too much pitching. So what if we have one guy too many when Hudson returns? Remember, we’re all assuming Hudson is going to be 100% healthy when he comes back. Kawakami has been shaky as of late and we can benefit from a deep bullpen. Let’s take a deep breath and hope our team continues to do what they are capable of doing.
Charlie
July 20th, 2009
11:35 pm
Hudsons ERA in 2006 was 4.86, higher than every starter we have. His ERA over 07-08 was a very respectable 3.3.
However, Hanson, JJ and Javy are lower, and all 3 combined make less than he does.
No brainer.
armchair
July 20th, 2009
11:37 pm
Wren has done a good job. The Braves have one of the better staffs in the NL and seem to be coming around offensively. Pierre would be tempting–The Braves don’t have a true leadoff man and letting Furcal leave was the start of their offensive woes, but I don’t think I’d trade Vazquez to get him. He’s been stout and would have 10 wins had he gotten any run support in the first two months of the season. Leave this team alone for now and let them play.
Mitch C
July 20th, 2009
11:42 pm
I keep feeling reluctant to trade Vazquez, because right now, he is about our best starting pitcher, and, with the uncertainities surrounding Tim Hudson, I dont know if you trade a quality starting pitcher like Vazquez, with just an outside shot at making the playoffs.
The division is done. The Braves aren’t catching the Phillies. This isnt the 1991 or 1993 Braves with Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Avery, et al in their primes. This is a team with good pitching, and inconsistent hitting, who is scraping to finish on the better side of 500, with an outside shot at the wild card.
Let’s say we trade Vazquez: What would we get for him? Also, even if Hudson comes back, how can anyone predict his performance upon his return? What happens if he leaves? The Braves are then down two quality starting pitchers in their rotation, and are left with Lowe, Jurrgens, and Hanson, and a question mark in Kenshin. With our situation being what it is, I would keep Javy, as insurance in case Hudson leaves. You can always figure it out after the season.
Maybe I’m wrong, but this is how I see it.
Mitch
Cardog10
July 20th, 2009
11:48 pm
We would have at least a 5 game swing in the standings if we didn’t have Franceour and Schafer being those “easy outs” for most of the season. I will throw KJ in there too. I like where we are at. We could use a power first baseman, but we can live without it for now. I like our team. If this was our starting lineup on day one, we would be in first place.
Coach (2010 or Bust)
July 20th, 2009
11:50 pm
The Philadelphia Phillies are in first place by 6.5 games.
They are the defending World Champions with the best offense and defense in the NL. O yea, their pitching has posted an ERA of 2.25 during the last fourteen games.
They are the hottest baseball team on the planet.
They are the favorite to land Roy Halliday.
And yet I’m supposed to be the IDIOT who has his head up the Braves ASS, right?
OKEY DOKY!!!!
Charlie
July 20th, 2009
11:53 pm
Man, what a bunch of doom and gloomers. Phillies are tuff, but before this winning streak, they were a 500 team. I promise you, the Phillies themselves are not as sure they are going to win the division as you guys are.
rich brave
July 20th, 2009
11:55 pm
VASQUEZ goes nowhere, neither does LOWE or kawakami. ESCOBAR stays put and RYAN CHURCH has to carry the freight to the finish line in ‘09. What you see is what you get.
FJR
July 20th, 2009
11:55 pm
the Phillies aren’t the favorite to land Roy Halladay. They can’t afford vernon wells contract and really don’t have the prospects Toronto wants anyways. Just because the Phillies need him the most doesn’t make them the favorites.
And the wild card is much more likely than the division. They have to pass these giants that looked like world beaters tonight, a rockies team playing over their heads, the cubs and milwaukee. Very doable IMHO.
Charlie
July 20th, 2009
11:56 pm
14 games, how about before that? Don’t the other 80 count? Sure, if they get Halladay, that would make tilt the odds that much more against us, but why so optimistic about them? Again, you must have not watched much baseball.
Charlie
July 20th, 2009
11:57 pm
Rich Brave, AMEN.
Jeff Schultz
July 20th, 2009
11:59 pm
Chance – The Vazquez trade rumor are about pitching depth and the fact he has one year left on his contract and likely won’t be re-signed after next season.
Greek Dawk (and others) – I think there’s way too much expectation on Huddy. He’s coming off TJ surgery. If he contribute ANYTHING it’s a bonus, but I don’t think anything should be assume for this year.
Charlie – Kawakami, relative to the money he was given, was an awful move. McLouth was a terrific move but it was to compensate for a bad decision (the assumption that Schafer was ready).
Steven – Nobody’s touching Lowe in the trade market with so much $$$ left on that contract.
PTC Dawg – nothing. Love it. Especially with biscuits. Don’t even mind when it gets on my shirt.
Charlie – Nobody is going to trade for Huddy unless he shows he’s fully recovered from TJ surgery.
Charlie
July 21st, 2009
12:06 am
Jeff, I know Huddy is not getting traded, that was what I meant when I said “if they can find dumb enough to take him”….The Jury is still out on Kawakami, he is still adjusting, has shown promise, not ready to call it “Awful”. Trading Hanson for Peavy would have been Awful.
Waldo
July 21st, 2009
12:07 am
Coach (2010 or Bust), everytime I read your comments you make no sense.
You said:Right, we can never have enough pitching but then again, Lowe + Jurrjens + Vazquez + Kwakami + Hanson + Hudson = SIX starting pitchers. Somebody has to and WILL BE TRADED. PERIOD.
Excuse me. Nobody has to be traded. God forbid we trade somebody and Hudson gets hurt again, or Hansen gets hurt. Then What. You can never have too much pitching. We just simply either have a six man rotation or move Kawakami to the bullpen.
Algenis (Fron NYC)
July 21st, 2009
12:11 am
I like the way we;ve been hitting lately. Escobar in the 6th or 7th hole is a different ball player. My only concern is, Why is Bobby Cox brining in his best relivers, Soriano and Gonzo, in a blow out game? The bullpen is short-handed as it is and if you have a 7 run lead in the 7th vs the METS, bring in Logan, or Manny Acosta, or whoever else is out there. Your going to need these two down the strech, especially when we got 8 vs the Dodgers, and 9 games with the Phillies and the Marlins.
Other then that, I like this team right now and we should’nt make a move. Keep JV, and put Tim in the bullpen when he comes back, with Campillo, Bennett and hopefully Buddy.
PS KJ had 7 RBI’s and hit 2 home runs tonight
UGA 75
July 21st, 2009
12:13 am
The only thing wrong with Frank Wren is he can’t get Bobby to fire Pendleton. Andruw is hitting again, Frenchy was 3 for 4 with a HR tonight and it was a bomb. Thank goodness Pendleton doesn’t speak Spanish or none of our team could hit.
Please Fire Pendleton
Keith
July 21st, 2009
12:16 am
Wren deserves a lot of credit with the pitching staff and making moves to get Javy, keep Hanson. Bobby finally came around and benched Kelly and started Prado. This team has an outside shot to make the playoffs, but I don’t think they will. However, I think if you sell now, you lose out in the future. I really enjoy watching this team play over the last few weeks. Remember, there are a lot of head-to-head games left, and they did sweep the Phils recently…while playing well against the Cubs, Rockies (should have won 3/4), and Red Sox…all who were pretty hot before meeting the Braves.
chitownbraves
July 21st, 2009
12:27 am
I think they should go after matt holiday in either a three way deal with pitt and oakland and u never know what u can get out of pitt these days zach duke,freddy sanchez,and maybe get a veteran bat like gary sheffield or cliff floyd.Tim hudson is coming back so u can make a move for matt,remember how this kid played in that colorado push a few years ago.
Wayn-o
July 21st, 2009
12:30 am
How about an option of Lowe to a contender like Texas or Angels for prospects & bullpen help. freeing up 15 mil would be enough incentive to let him go.
Coach (2010 or Bust)
July 21st, 2009
12:39 am
In other words, what Jeff is really saying:
Hanson and Jurrjens are untouchable.
Derek Lowe is 36 with 3.5 years and about 52 million left on his contract.
Kenshin Kawakami is 34 with 2.5 years and about 16.8 million left on his three year deal.
Tim Hudson has a brand new elbow, a record of 146-77 and will be paid 12 million next season. He’s what we call an ACE pitcher.
Javier Vazquez is pitching out of his mind right now. His career record of 134-136 and 4.24 ERA says something totally different. He has 11.5 million due in 2010 and is the youngest of the trade eligible at 32.
The conclusion should be a NO-BRAINER.
Who has the best trade value right now? Vazquez.
Who has the most affordable contract? Vazquez.
Who is the least likely to sign long term with the Braves? Vazquez.
Who is the youngest? Vazquez.
Who has been durable during his entire career ? Vazquez.
Who will Frank Wren trade? Vazquez.
I mean really, It’s not that hard to figure out, now is it?
Think beyond tomorrow and just for the sake of those who cannot see the obvious. What if the Braves didn’t pick up Tim Hudson’s option for 2010 and then Vazquez takes more money to pitch elsewhere in 2011. Then what?
James
July 21st, 2009
12:42 am
I think the braves should take a look at Barry Bonds he can give them some power that they could use even if it’s just for the remainder of the season it doesn’t hurt to take a chance on him.
john d
July 21st, 2009
12:47 am
felt bad pulling against smoltz tonite. Still not over his bashing the Braves for not giving him a guaranteed contract this year.Botom line five starts 6.50 ERA
Stanco
July 21st, 2009
1:04 am
We need to do this season what we should have done a few seasons ago…..don’t give away the farm, for a player that might help a very flawed team go no where. Imagine where we would be this year if we hadn’t given away so much for sooo little. I would easily have traded a few of those division titles for a legitimate chance at a world series title.
Boribrave
July 21st, 2009
1:07 am
Why would’nt you sign Vazquez next year? He has been super. We don’t know how Huddy is going to work out. The thing with Vazquez this year is that he has had bad luck. Unfortunately we tend to let the bats at home when he’s pitching.
It would be very stupid to deal him. This team is taking shape, and we are starting to hit the ball, now that we needed.
So Jeff, I think we would be extreamly stupid to trade Vazquez. We are still in this thing, and there is no “such big bat out there for us”. Everyone is taken.
Ed
July 21st, 2009
1:52 am
More than anything right now, I’m not really looking at the rotation as it currently stands, but keeping the unit intact with the 6 guys available. The larger issue here is sitting tight and seeing where the team stands in 10 days. After 10 days, the trade deadline passes, but even then, there are no guarantees that waiver moves won’t be made and the like. The biggest issue right now is who can help in the short term, who will help long term, and which guys on the team still have minor league options that ensure that the talent currently available stays within the organization.
That said, personally, I wouldn’t trade Javy, Lowe, or Hudson. JJ isn’t going anywhere (he’s just too good), and hanson isn’t leaving any time soon either. The biggest issue is where the team is going to find a big bat who’s a tough out. How many bad teams out there (outside of Washington, who has Dunn), have bona fide cleanup hitters that are worth giving up players on the current roster or highly rated prospects for? This isn’t last season, and Manny isn’t available. I also don’t see any major market teams with anything worth sacrificing quality pitching for.
Pitching in baseball is like defense in every other sport. It wins championships. No team has won consistently without quality pitching ever. When you get into the playoffs, 2 pitchers can win a series. Heck, Hamels locked the world series up for the Phils last year. Short term fixes aren’t the answer…The Braves, as an organization, need to think smart, plan for the future, and play in the present. Getting Rollins out on a consistent basis would be nice, too…he drives that Philly offense.
laffing dice
July 21st, 2009
2:04 am
I havent read everything on this particular blog! However~ has anyone, who has “criticized” Wren,
Changed their mind? Seems to me~Wren has done an outstanding job!!!! There IS still hope for a Wild card! Thats due to Wren! Huddy will be back~ havent had him for 93 games divided by 4 or whatever~
I feel its Amazing!!! What Wren has done in Atlanta!! Just stop!! And then Think???
Say to yourself~ What trade or move has NOT worked out in Braves interest?? That Wren has made!
I’m curious to hear the responses!!!! I’m gonna save this post~as Prob will be another soon ~and repost this. I’m just curious as to ~well~ As to~ What Wren has done thats not been ~Bam~ close to perfect?
Thank you for your time~ if you read this post~
Ed
July 21st, 2009
2:34 am
The #1 reason I have for concearn right now is Huddy, honestly. Soriano and Gonzo both had issues comig back from Tommy John, and I see no reason that Hudson might not have similar issues. I’m not ready to give away a very valuable piece to a very solid rotation based on 2 innings of A ball.
laffing dice
July 21st, 2009
3:47 am
I think Braves should stand “pat” UNLESS!!!
They could get Pierre?
rocky
July 21st, 2009
5:07 am
The Braves should keep Vasquez and they should trade Lowe to someone in need of pitching with a flux of hitters.
braveUK
July 21st, 2009
5:14 am
The way the team is playing now, it is probably best to do nothing, all the bats are ok at the moment, and there is an outside chance of getting to the play-offs. Trading at August waiver deadline might be better for us, Vasquez , Lowe, KK, Gonzo, soriano may all have improved their value and the contending field of clubs might have thinned out a bit making it clearer for a couple of clubs to take the plunge to add the play-off calibre pitcher, and overpay us for one of them. If we fall out of contention we can trade pitchers for a good return, and if a bat goes cold we just about have the flexibility rearrange the outfield or the infield now, e.g prado to 1B, Conrad or KJ at 2B. I think Wren has done a great job, but he has also been lucky , all the moves that didn’t come off last winter, Furcal, Peavy etc look like they would have turned out bad if they had gone through.
Dave
July 21st, 2009
5:18 am
Starting pitching is the most valuable commodity in baseball some of you act like we have to do something now which is just plain stupid it’s value never lessens. We all know in the next year or two we will get an injection of great hitting coming our way.Yes we have six pitchers, but Huddy is coming of Tommy John surgery a few pitchers have a little age and possibility of injury. Having a little more starting pitching than we need means we have an insurance policy against injury and we have something other teams will always want to trade for starting pitching. A lot of you guys were wrong on keeping Glavine and Smoltz. A few want to trade one of our best players in Escobar which is just absolutely stupid. A lot of people here whined when we traded for Javier Vasquez which was a great trade who has real trade value. Wren stole Jair Jurgens. I think Wren has done a great job and unlike some here he knows enough to know when you have starting pitching you have money in the bank and should never make panic trades especially when our team is looking to the future more than the present.Some in our fan base has been wrong in a lot of they want Wren has been more right than most on this board have.
Space Monkey
July 21st, 2009
6:08 am
We should do nothing. Without instant outs in our lineup—and we know who they were—this is a really strong team. Maybe even a wild card team. We are only four out and taking three of four from the Giants would be a real statement.
Smooth
July 21st, 2009
6:48 am
I think Wren is doing a good job. The Braves are playing good ball and it appears our best bet is to stay as we are and let Philly cool off. Get rid of some more dead wood like Kelly Johnson, Bennett, Acosta, and Norman. I hope Frenchy enjoys the bright lights of NY, I will take Church any day over him.
hop
July 21st, 2009
6:50 am
the braves do not need to do anything at this time unless someone offers a super deal for one of our older pithers.
leave the young players along and let’s built for once around them.
kotchman is a great first basement who has not had an error all year.
to support our pitchers, we need great defense and we have it with him plus he is a solid 280-290 hitter!
trade schultz
July 21st, 2009
7:10 am
Right KJ and shaffear are ready trade them n jeff bennett for a player so that bennett can hit his hand again when he blows a game be out rest od season….and jeff hudson is trade to he never was a great pitcher why u think A’s were laughin at GM for braves when they rid…they knew hudson had bad arm…and braves best resign Vasquez to
Willy
July 21st, 2009
7:27 am
Thank you, Space Monkey. One fan has a brain.
Hawk01
July 21st, 2009
7:31 am
John Smoltz career is over I believe. He got bombed again with 5 inn., 9 hits and 6 runs against Texas last night. Good decision by the Braves to not give him 5 million. Good decision on Glavine also. Francouer may get straightened out in New York. He hit a home run last night. I think they did the right thing, for Francouer was not going to make it in Atlanta.
Falcondore
July 21st, 2009
7:43 am
Stay the course. Obviously the Wild Card is a crazy race, but we’re RIGHT in the hunt. Division is less realistic, but since our best chance is to win the wild card and we can do it with the team we have, we just have to hold on to our pieces and let them play.
The trick is going to be keeping Soriano and/or Gonzalez after this year. Both are FAs, and we’d have to do some serious replacing to fill those spots.
DHD
July 21st, 2009
7:50 am
It’s July. We’re only 4 games back in the Wild Card. In 1982, we were 3 games back with a week to go and won it. There are 10 weeks left. It’s not time to panic and sell. The offense is coming around now even with McLouth in a slump. Let’s stay the course and see what happens. We can always make waiver deals in September if we’re out of it.
Bank Walker, Texas Ranger
July 21st, 2009
8:02 am
We need to sell. The Braves are a average team with above average pitching and below average hitting. They have no power and no team speed. This team is .500 at best and their record proves it. In order to get over the top and be a world series contender, they need to sell. Javy V. has a lifetime 4.50 ERA and only 1 year reamining on his contract. The Braves will not resign him, therefore, we need to trade while he has some value. Because he is pitching great this year and has a year remaining, the Brave could get 2 or 3 quality prospects. If we keep him he is gone after 2010 when the Braves should start getting really good. The same goes for Gonzo, he has real value right now. Once again, the Braves could get 2 quality prospects for him. Throw in guys like Kotchman, KJ, Church, etc., if they are not in the 2 year plan then trade them. Guys like Andersen, Lowe or Hudson have no value due to injuries or contracts. As for Wren, every move he has made has worked out with the exception of not getting Furcal but that was not Wren’s fault. As for Kawakami, if over paying a guy is a screw up, then I wish the Braves had the ability to take the chance on overpaying other players.
Mike S
July 21st, 2009
8:10 am
The last thing the Braves need to do is sell the farm to trade for a bat. The acquisitions of McLouth and Church have been good ones. While niether is going to hit 30 HR, they are both Solid OFers. McClouth is a ++ leadoff hitter – Some power, some speed, and he knows how to get on base. A rotation of Church, Diaz (whi is hitting again), and Anderson (Who is showing why he is considered a second half god) is more than adquate in LF and RF.
As for needing bats off the bench – KJ is hitting in AAA, and Infante is due to be back soon. Omar will be just like getting a solid bat in a trade, if KJ has regained his stroke that is a bonus.
Pitching is set, we have one of the best rotations in baseball. If Huddy continues to perform, he is that Bullpen arm that people say we need to trade for. Why press him and maybe cause a setback by pushing him to be a starter. If he is effective in his rehab starts, he would be a perfect middle relief guy for August and September. IF Kawakami stumbles, then Huddy gets a shot at the rotation.
Lineup – SET
Rotation – SET
Bench – Infante is as good as we would get in a trade.
Bullpen – HUddy is as good as we would get in a trade.
Stand pat, this team is good enough to win the wild card.
Snowman
July 21st, 2009
8:36 am
Brownie, are you kidding me, mentioning the Tex trade as Wren’s worst? The only way you could consider that as a bad trade is if you think we’d have been better off with the draft pick (instead of Kotchman) we’d have gotten if we’d kept him and lost him to free agency. The Braves had no chance of resigning him.
Fed up
July 21st, 2009
8:37 am
I’m good with the present team effort and I would stand pat. Listen to offers since there are a number of teams out there needing pitching and see if someone is willing to knock you down with a offer but don’t trade just to trade. Please not another Tex deal for just a couple of months of use
Braves73
July 21st, 2009
8:50 am
Same article, different day. I am pretty sick and tired of the ridiculous talk of trading Vazquez and Escobar. Yunel is up and coming shortstop with so much upside that it is absolutely stupid to think that you could get equal value for him. Vazquez is currently the Braves best/most consistent pitcher (who is under contract next year) and is more than doing his job. Plus you have no idea as to how effective Hudson will be when he comes back…all this sound familar????
The Braves have a VERY good shot at the wild card spot. It really doesn’t matter if they win the division (as the Braves can certainly atest to). All that matters is that the Braves have a chance to make postseason and see what happens from there. They may have a better shot as the Wild Card (without all of the pressure/expectatios) and as history as shown any team can win it.