Francoeur returns! (and he shouldn’t have ever left)
How much do you think this guy wants to homer tonight?
Getting ready to head out to the stadium for tonight’s big grudge match: Ryan Church vs. the Mets. (Hah!)
Seriously, I’m curious: When Jeff Francoeur steps to the plate tonight, what will you do? Boo? Cheer? Wonder how this affects Willie Martinez’s plans in Stillwater?
For those of you who chose “boo,” that’s certainly your right as a fan, although I’m not sure the kid deserves it. But I’ve got to be honest: I didn’t really like the trade when general manager Frank Wren made it just before the All-Star break, and I still don’t like it. I still believe Francoeur — for as stubborn as he is taking advice and as much of a head case as some think he has turned into — can turn out to be a pretty special player.
I realize I’m weighing in late on this. But , hey, I was on vacation when the trade was made. And so, well, here we go:
Our scrappy baseball writer and maniacal blogger, David O’Brien, approved of the trade in his blog the other day and asked: Why wouldn’t you trade him?
My response is: Why would you trade him? Because I see only two scenarios in which I think you move Francoeur during the year:
♦ You make a trade for a player who you are pretty sure is going to help you get to the playoffs this season.
♦ You make a trade for a player who you are pretty sure is going to help you get to the playoffs next season.
What evidence is there in his resume that Church can do either?
He’s a fourth outfielder. He’s with his fourth team in six seasons. He’ll be 31 years old in October. We’re way past, “What’s his upside?” We’ve seen what he is: a nice player with a .272 career average and no power. Correct me if I’m wrong: But platoon outfielders with a .272 career average and no power generally are not in short supply, are they?
Francoeur’s problems have been well chronicled. But we’ve seen his upside. You can’t just dismiss what he did in his first two half seasons (394 games): 62 home runs, 84 doubles, 253 RBI, .280 average and a Gold Glove. At worst, why not wait until after the season and deal him then, maybe as part of a multi-player trade you have a better chance to shape your roster for the future (and maybe when more teams could be involved because they are reshaping their’s)?
Until then, at least you would have given Francoeur another half-season to work out his issues. And by the way: at 25, he’s got time to work out those issues.
Anyway, I’m looking forward to tonight ( but no — I won’t cheer or boo). I’m sure Derek Lowe is hoping Francoeur going 4-for-9 in his two games as a Met is an aberration.
My plans: I’ll probably post a column after talking to Francoeur and then update it later. Anybody have a question you want asked (other than: When’s the last time you phoned Rudy Jaramillo?)?
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151 comments Add your comment
Letsgochurch
July 16th, 2009
3:38 pm
The only way Francoeur was to come out of his funk was with another team, it was apparent that the Atlanta exerience had gotten in his head. I wish him the best but not against us!
C. Tampa Ironworse
July 16th, 2009
3:39 pm
I totally agree JS. The Braves are going no where this year, they didn’t get anything of value for him and they are NOT going to have Ryan Church on the team next year. So ride Frenchy out. Send him down for a bit, DL him…SOMETHING. But trading him was weak…because they didn’t achieve anything by doing it.
PS: My bowtie is STILL better than D. Orlando LedBetter’s…
carpetbagger
July 16th, 2009
3:41 pm
I still give Wren credit for making the deal. Jeff stands a better chance of turning it around elsewhere. It clears the way so that the club can address the lack of production from the OF in the off season.
Rasheed Willis
July 16th, 2009
3:43 pm
Ever since Frenchy got of the Roids he hasn’t done anything. Maybe he should get on HGH like Pujols. It’s tough to detect from urine samples.
Scott
July 16th, 2009
3:44 pm
Anyone who boos Francouer is an embarrassment to Atlanta and to sports fans in general.
Jim
July 16th, 2009
3:44 pm
Totally disagree with you on this one. The Braves waited alot longer than they should have to move this prima donna. The last two seasons have proven that for whatever reason, it was not going to happen here for him. He may be a nice guy and all of that but, good riddance. Go Braves.
Seriously?
July 16th, 2009
3:45 pm
Addition by subtraction. Two years of a sub .300 OBP is horrible. We are a far better team without Frenchy, even if we only traded the kid for a bag of balls.
Herschel Talker
July 16th, 2009
3:45 pm
Schultzie – gotta disagree vehemently with you on this one
Scott – you’re a fool. He is an arrogant jerk who blamed everyone including the fans for his shortcomings.
Letsgochurch
July 16th, 2009
3:46 pm
I also believe that we’ve traded for a highly motivated player. Church has a bone to pick and I believe we’ll get more quality AB’s out of him than Anderson by seasons end. Not exactly a World Series formula but this ain’t your old Braves anymore.
Marcus
July 16th, 2009
3:46 pm
Yes, Letsgotochurch is correct. Unfortunately, that is all too true for a lot of the players that come through Atlanta.
Jim
July 16th, 2009
3:47 pm
Addendum – Frenchy should not be booed by the fans. I am glad he is gone but I hope that the fans show some class and leave the booing out of the equation.
Chris
July 16th, 2009
3:49 pm
He needed a change of scenery. He obviously wasn’t going to do anything in Atlanta. He was probably complaining when he was benched those games against the Rockies the same way he complained about going down to AA last year. He may end up having a great career,it wasn’t going happen .at home in Atlanta
JOHNNYG
July 16th, 2009
3:50 pm
Top three favorite Braves games ever.
Game 6 WS win
Sid Slid
and 07-07-05 Jeff’s debut.
Bill
July 16th, 2009
3:52 pm
Jeff I always gave you credit for being pretty smart but I guess I was wrong. Your vacation didn’t last 2 years.
Bravedawg
July 16th, 2009
3:52 pm
Jeff,
You asked “At worst, why not wait until after the season and deal him then, maybe as part of a multi-player trade you have a better chance to shape your roster for the future (and maybe when more teams could be involved because they are reshaping their’s)?”
Well, because everyone and their brother knows that the Braves were going to non-tender Francouer at the end of this season. So they wouldn’t be able to get anything in a trade for him. If you’re an opposing manager, why would you trade for him when you can just wait on the Braves to non-tender him, and then sign him outright?
**Exhale** Jeff, you should probably go back on vacation.
Letsgochurch
July 16th, 2009
3:55 pm
We shouldn’t boo Frenchy – he may have been lost at the plate but his heart was for Atlanta. Save your boo’s for players that really deserve it…
Scott
July 16th, 2009
3:57 pm
statistically, Francouer is the worst everyday player in the majors, and it’s not particularly close. the mistake was not benching/trading him earlier. the fact that we were able to get a somewhat serviceable player for him is fantastic
Doug
July 16th, 2009
3:57 pm
Francouer has been historically bad for more than two seasons…he was arguably the very worst every day player in the majors…he visited a hitting guru in jaramillo and has responded with a sparkling .288 obp…how long would you have the Braves continue this experiment and exactly why??? Is this not still the major leagues where one should have to produce and not simply be given continuous opportunity despite horrid production? Church is much more productive…period.
DMac
July 16th, 2009
3:59 pm
If the Braves didn’t have the guts to do what they should have done with him (i.e. send him to the minors and make him work his way back), then the only logical alternative was to trade him. I wish the front office and Bobby Cox had some guts, but they don’t, so it’s a good thing that he’s gone.
SuwaneeDawg
July 16th, 2009
4:00 pm
It was another horrible trade. Hopefully it will be the one that ultimately leads to Frank Wren’s departure. I certainly hope the Braves win this series, but am extremely hopeful that Frenchy has the series of his career against Atlanta. He still belongs in a Braves uniform.
Chris
July 16th, 2009
4:02 pm
I think this trade was made for extra curricular reasons – things we the fans would never know about.
We cheer him wildly cause he’s the hometown guy and he had a few good years when he first came up (then again, so did Charles Thomas). He struggled last year – fine – then began whining in the media when he was sent down to straighten things out. It’s probably a safe bet that he’s been whining about less playing time in the clubhouse.
I don’t know how many of y’all have played team sports but when you have somebody openly complaining about their playing time it undermines what the team is trying to accomplish and begins to drag down the team while dividing the clubhouse. In other words, I believe Jeff Francouer was a clubhouse cancer and we were trying to unload him – we would have given him away for nothing if rules would allow it. One of the ESPN baseball guys – I think it was Jason Stark – reported that the Braves had been begging teams to take Frenchy and were being laughed at for asking.
With all that being said – there is a third reason to trade away a player – and that’s to get rid of a cancer to the team. It also serves as a wakeup call to the rest of the team that whining and the acceptance of mediocre performance will not fly.
I think Francouer will go on to have a great career and make a few all star teams – but I think there were mental issues to where it would never happen in Atlanta.
eastbound and down
July 16th, 2009
4:02 pm
I wouldn’t be surprised if Francoeur’s career paralleled Kenny Powers’ after they left the braves. the only difference would be that Kenny’s downfall was more humorous. That and Powers was a pitcher. ok, two differences.
DAVEinNEPA
July 16th, 2009
4:05 pm
Francouer was basicly a huge hole in our lineup for the last season and a half. If he was here, Cox woud still play him no matter how bad he did. That would be detrimental to the rest of the team IMO.
Is Church going to help us? Maybe not, but Francouer was going to get any better by staying here.
Spud Webb
July 16th, 2009
4:06 pm
I hope he doesn’t get booed. good kid, good work ethic, but is what he is. He wasn’t willing to go back to Gwinnett and work for a few months on things, break it down and start again.
Agreed, Church is nothing more than a “servicable” OF, whatever that means. But lets face it, they had to move frenchy and fast.
Bravedawg
July 16th, 2009
4:08 pm
Suwanee Dawg – why was it a horrible trade? What did you not like about it? What would you have done instead?
Tim
July 16th, 2009
4:09 pm
He’s in the right town to get what he needs to get back into form. From the looks of that baggy shirt he is way past due for an injection. You columnists never shy away from posting something stupid. Why not have the balls to write what we all can see. Lose the needle and you lose your power. He’s not the only one this has happened too and won’t be the last.
Robards
July 16th, 2009
4:09 pm
If the Braves were going to non-tender Francoeur (as DOB surmised and as would be appropriate unless there was dramatic improvement in the second half), then he might as well be moved to get something in return. But maybe Jeff proves that the last two years were just a lengthy Andruw-like slump.
Ray Pugh
July 16th, 2009
4:10 pm
Eastbound, there are more differences: out of the following 3:
1) An arm like a f$ckin’ cannon,
2) A mind like a beartrap,
3) A c$ck like a Burmese python,
… JF only possesses one.
DMac
July 16th, 2009
4:11 pm
It’s a crying shame that the Braves front office and Bobby Cox didn’t make him stay in the minors until he proved himself. They did Franceour and the organization a great disservice by being such wimps.
Old Blue
July 16th, 2009
4:11 pm
Church will be packaged with another decent Brave plus a minor leaguer or two to get a bat for one of the corners in the near future. It could very well work out in the elimination process. One less golfer on the team, more or less.
Brad in Jasper
July 16th, 2009
4:14 pm
I liked the trade. I agree with JS, the end result will probably not make a hill of beans this year or next. BUT. So far what I’ve seen of Church is good patience at the plate. Jeff’s well chronicled problems swinging were getting tiresome to watch. It seems simply like a case of an athletic kid that caught everyone off guard that first year or so, then once pitching adapted to him he was unable to adapt back. Even his last few games with the Braves, he was intentionally taking the first pitch just to satisfy the critics, then it was hack-a-way like usual. Change of scenery should be good for both guys/teams – and I don’t think either ATL/NYM will be better or worse because of it.
slow roller
July 16th, 2009
4:14 pm
Still think getting a decent Batting Coach would be a lot cheaper than dumping all the players that can’t stand Terry Pendleton! Wait til Pendleton is made head coach, then even the pitchers will start sucking illogically. The only reason Conrad is hitting like a fiend is because he hasn’t absorbed the TP philosophy of hitting yet….give TP time and I am sure he will ruin him too!!!!
DMac
July 16th, 2009
4:15 pm
Schultz, if they didn’t have the guts to discipline him, what else could they have done but trade him?
NC Braves Fan
July 16th, 2009
4:17 pm
Whether it was a horrible trade for one side or the other remains to be seen … but it’s pretty safe to say that this was probably the -only- trade offer for Jeff on the table.
Bill
July 16th, 2009
4:17 pm
Frenchy was a bad nickname. Had to get rid of him.
Mrs. Chanandler Bong
July 16th, 2009
4:18 pm
Those who say that they would like to see Frenchy kick some Braves tail are not Braves fan. That being said, I wouldn’t boo him either. He was traded — he didn’t abandon us for him, i.e. Tommy-O.
dap01
July 16th, 2009
4:19 pm
Jeff, obviously you havent watch the Braves and JF like the rest of us have.
Frank Wren traded a 5 tool player without the power, without the speed, without the average, without the baseball instincts who keeps asking for huge raises each year. He was too hardheaded to listen to anybody. How dare he be sent down to the minor leagues.
He is one of the least productive outfielders in the history of Major League Baseball HISTORY.
Rawdog
July 16th, 2009
4:19 pm
Ask Jeff is he likes riding the 7 train in NY with all the other pack rats who live on top of one another. He’ll fit in great in NY’s new park which has the fewest home runs allowed in the majors. Another excuse for him to not to be hitting homers, instead leading the league in inning ending or rally killing double plays. I wonder if he parties with Santana, Reyes, Delgado, and Beltran. They can have a wild party together at Taco Bell after the game.
Brad in Jasper
July 16th, 2009
4:19 pm
A little ambiguous with my last sentence. I meant good for both teams as in “Ahh, that’s nice, a new face” (both teams seemed tired of both guys), not “Ahh that’s nice, new guy will add 10 wins to our total.”
I know much
July 16th, 2009
4:21 pm
I cant wait to get there early tonight and BOO Francouer. From the moment I see that bum step onto the field he will hear my wrath. He is a classic underperformer who under achieved for over two years. And if you think booing is “distasteful” then I suggest you steer clear of Citi Field in about two weeks time when the Mets fans really let Fran-cant have it!
Viva Ryan Church!
Paul H
July 16th, 2009
4:24 pm
Stupid trade. Another bonehead Frank Wren move. I can understand trading him, but not for a guy that’s not an upgrade, and DEFINITELY not to to our division rivals. For his sake, I think he needed out of Atlanta as well. I hope he does well, just not against the Braves.
Paul H
July 16th, 2009
4:25 pm
And why on earth would anyone boo him? He didn’t choose to leave, he was TRADED. Anyone who boos him tonight is a total jack@ss.
Paul H
July 16th, 2009
4:26 pm
Anyone who boos him is a total jack@ss. He was TRADED. He didn’t choose to leave.
Sonny Clusters
July 16th, 2009
4:26 pm
Whoa! Thanks for showing all the love to Jeff, Jeff. When we was playing ball together we was almost always the star and we was almost always on base and driving in runs and scoring. To answer the question, “How much do you think this guy wants to homer tonight?” . . . the only way Jeff will homer tonight is if he steps out of the box so he can reach one of those sliders off the plate. Derek Lowe and most of the baseball world know how to pitch ol’ Jeff when hes in town. If any Braves pitcher gives Jeff anything at all to hit knowing he will swing at the resin bag . . . then Bobby should release that pitcher. The whole league knows how to pitch ol Jeff but if anybody messes up it will probably be Bobby. Lefty righty so to speak. Bring in Chino to pitch to him. We was thinking Bobby might destroy the bullpen over the next few days.
DMac
July 16th, 2009
4:26 pm
He should be booed because he was to arrogant to take coaching, or to stay in the minors until he worked things out.
Hillbilly Deluxe
July 16th, 2009
4:27 pm
I think things had gotten to the point where he wasn’t going to get it done here. Maybe he’ll take advantage of a fresh start and right his ship but still I would have traded him.
I won’t be at the game but if I was, I wouldn’t boo him. Actually I don’t boo anybody. Seems like a total waste of my time to me.
Rawdog
July 16th, 2009
4:30 pm
Jeff couldn’t cut it in the GA penal leagues. Outfielders are paid to hit, not throw out advancing base runners. French dip should quit baseball and go back to football and give it a try. Maybe he could be a white Bo Jackson. I will be buying a Church shirt and wear it proudly at the game Saturday afternoon.
BJE
July 16th, 2009
4:31 pm
I posted what is below on the “fans react” section. Not an hour later another article on Frenchy. I can’t believe how easily the Atlanta fans are manipulated. Honestly, read what I wrote below and see if this doesn’t continue. The only way the AJC stays in business is if the Braves return Jeff to Atlanta in another trade, thus spawning a million new mindless message board posts and hundreds more meaningless columns. This is hilarious manipulation…
“The AJC saw how many hits columns about Frenchy received. Whether it merits coverage or not, like NASCAR.com does with Dale Jr., the AJC was (and is) going to write about Jeff. They need money. If you can’t see this, then the AJC thanks you and encourages you to keep commenting on this topic.
Your continued devouring of this topic caused the trade.”
NEW CARS
July 16th, 2009
4:31 pm
Would you have been willing to go to arbitration with him in the fall….That’s the point, if we weren’t going to go through another year of this same frustration, he had to go now to get anything….I like Frenchie, but the fact is, his bat was killing our offense….I still don’t understand why he wasn’t put in the no. 8 spot…He complained about protection..The way he was going, we could have put the pitcher in front of him and they would have complained about no protection…
DP
July 16th, 2009
4:32 pm
Jeff, Francouer’s OPS for both YTD 2009 and full year 2008 was in the bottom 5 for position players in the National League. Watching his ABs was painful. No recognition of the strike zone. No pitch recognition. No situational hitting ability. Virtually no power. Won’t/can’t take walks.
Chipper Jones basically said Francouer was a lost cause in a blog post you made a few weeks ago. He said Francouer was being told what he was doing wrong but if you can’t feel it you can’t correct it, and Francouer couldn’t feel it.
I don’t care what they got for Francouer. They had to get rid of him so Bobby Cox could no longer put him in the lineup every day. They were going to non-tender him at the end of the season anyway.
Bravedawg
July 16th, 2009
4:32 pm
Paul – before you judge Frank Wren, tell us who we could’ve gotten that was better than Church. Tell us what other offers were out there.
Paul?
Paul???
Oh – right. Because the rest of MLB is going to knock down Frank Wren’s door to trade for one of the worst hitters, statistically, in the HISTORY of Major League Baseball.
It’s amazing how many people were on here saying “TRADE FRANCOEUR FOR A SACK OF HAMMERS!!! WHATEVER IT TAKES! JUST GET RID OF HIM!!” Now they’re saying “Gosh, what a dumb trade. We should’ve gotten better talent for him.”
JR
July 16th, 2009
4:34 pm
When Bobby Cox and Frank Wren can blame their shortcomings on guys like Francoeur and Escobar they buy a little more time for the inevitable- a change in management. Players, generally, are knuckleheads. Little boys playing little boy games have to be managed and that means a good kick in the ass occasionally. Demotion to the minors with cold showers and overnight bus trips might have brought these prima donas around. It was at least worth a try with the investment already made in them and their obvious talent. Now Francoeur is traded for nothing, and Escobar is on the block. Unbelievable.
GTDhoo
July 16th, 2009
4:38 pm
No way do I boo Frenchy. This city is his home and he loves it and the fans here. I will be standing and clapping when he steps into the box.
As far as the trade goes, it had to be done. I feel like he needed to just reset and he couldn’t do that in Atlanta. I think he’ll be productive in the future, but not if he had stayed a Brave. Both the Braves and Francoeur needed a fresh start and that’s what this trade did.
Roy Hobbs
July 16th, 2009
4:38 pm
Great story. You are correct. This was a “look at the shiny object” trade. If you cant do any quality work, at least look busy.
All this talk about having to trade him is crap. He should have been sent down to AA or AAA and given 40 to 80 games to work on his swing. Last years demotion was a joke. He was there two games, it was a media circus, and he was called right back up. Send him down, weather the circus, and then let him work on his swing in peace for a couple months and see what you have.
I dont know if he will recover his swing or not, but if he does this will go down as one of the worst trades in the history of the franchise. Not only do you trade your golden boy, but you send him to your biggest rival for a journeyman.
People have questioned why the Mets did this deal. Its simple. There is no downside. They shipped out a 31 year old 4th outfielder who was playing himself out of a job. In return they get a lottery ticket that might land them a franchise outfielder AND give them the chance to truly stick a knife in the heart of Braves fans 18 times a year.
The shame here is that neither Cox or Wren had the guts to actually send Frenchy to the minor leagues for a few months. In trying not to hurt his feelings they have done everyone a huge diservice.
GoVols
July 16th, 2009
4:41 pm
Francoeur will be helped more by the trade than the Braves. He had hard feelings with Bobby and that can only be corrected by getting away. I hope the BOO birds are quite and remember him by his first season. On the other hand, maybe he needs a new hitting caoch, for what ever reason, to bring him back to his old self.
ABravesFan
July 16th, 2009
4:42 pm
Francoeur was going to get non-tendered in the offseason. He has been performing below average for 1.5 seasons (we’re actually hurt by having him in the lineup instead of some random MLB joe average).
I still like Frenchy and wish him the best of luck to turn it around, but having a useful player such as Church (who is a bit underrated) is better for this team this season. Frank Wren has shown that he is willing to go for it (to an extent) this year, and that’s all one can ask for as a fan.
Hopefully Francoeur will get a nice ovation and continue his season numbers this weekend. Then he can continue to get a bunch of bloop hits (that 4 for 9 number).
Rick Stoss
July 16th, 2009
4:45 pm
I totally agree. I still don’t see the point of this trade. Church is a 4th outfielder at best and probably will not be with the Braves next year. At least Jeff has produced before and will again with some maturity. There was no reason to make this deal. The Braves got nothing in return.
savannahdawg
July 16th, 2009
4:46 pm
i am glad we traded him and would without question boo him he will forever be the Uncle Rico of braves baseball he did this at parkview he did that at parkview that 30 min special on him and his family and all that kissing of his ass by coaches and principals and he didnt show me squat hey my little 5 year old daughter got an A+ in coloring this year and she hit the rim in upward basketball this year too i would have taken a beanbag with a hole in it at the plate instead if frenchboy him being traded to NY just proves that the toilet waste water runs north
DP
July 16th, 2009
4:47 pm
“a lottery ticket that might become a franchise outfielder”
Yeah, right. Could you point me to one other player in the history of MLB who had hitting stats comparable to Frenchy’s after 2500+ plate appearances and then turned it around?
smitty
July 16th, 2009
4:47 pm
Making room for Heyward for next year
El Bravo
July 16th, 2009
4:47 pm
Francoeur will be free agent at the end of the season and will be scavenging for work. We can always re-sign him then to a Minor League contract…
Mr. Scary
July 16th, 2009
4:48 pm
You’re joking, right? I saw a stat that Dave O’Brien posted on his blog a few days ago–Frenchy has the worst OBP of ANY corner OF EVER with a min. 2,500 PA. Worst. Ever. Now tell me, who is gonna give up a player that’ll help you get to the playoffs for that? Why is that even on our team? Good Lord, be happy that the Mets seem determined to play him everyday–he’s gonna make them worse than they already are.
Hey, I like a lot of your stuff, but I can’t disagree with you more here. No way.
Dozer
July 16th, 2009
4:48 pm
It was time for the sideshow to end – numbers don’t lie, and over the last 2 years he was as unproductive as any regular in MLB. The Braves didn’t have the guts to keep him in the minors like they should have, so there wasn’t anywhere else to go with this situation. From his attitude & comments about being sent to the minors last year, JF seemed to have overestimated his abilities – I don’t think the NY press & fans are going to be as patient as most everyone was here in Atlanta. Good luck, kid, you’re gonna need a thicker skin where you’re going….
Michael Ruffin
July 16th, 2009
4:48 pm
1. NL pitchers figured him out, caught up with him, passed him, and left him in the dust.
2. He apparently could not make the necessary adjustments.
3. From the time he turned down the Braves’ offer of a long-term McCann-like contract he fell apart, I guess because he pressed too hard trying to prove that he deserved what he was holding out for.
4. I know he went to the Texas hitting coach for help, but can anyone name a player struggling at the plate whom TP has demonstrably helped? Just one?
So, there was no way things were going to get better for him in ATL so the only choice was to trade him. Given the state of his game, the Braves were lucky to get Church.
Doug
July 16th, 2009
4:49 pm
He’s gone. Time to move on and don’t look back. No sane bettor would throw more money down based on the track record we have seen. If he figures it out, good for him, but I wouldn’t count on it.
country boy
July 16th, 2009
4:49 pm
Hello Jeffy boy. I think the JF trade is much more than just two teams swapping a couple of outfielders.
A good GM would be using a “process’ to remove an iconish mgr. I am sure the JF trade and other moves like the Glavine abortion or bringing up Medlin and Hanson would have Bobby’s approval. When we still fail to make playoffs once again a good GM has to look to the teams Mgr. and determine if team is getting optimal results. I think we may see Bobby upstairs and off the field after seasons end.
biff pocahontas, uh roba
July 16th, 2009
4:51 pm
uh, yeh we should have traded him. duh!?! i’d much rather have church than frenchy. at least you know what you’ve got. well, i guess with frenchy, you knew you had at least one pop up on the infield a game(if not more). he’s simply what he’s shown you he is, a .250 hitter, with little power(except in softball with that swing), not even a doubles hitter. i think it was a good move, got what they could for him, even though i know for a fact they were wanting the guy from colorado(too bad they’ve gotten hot or it would have happened). he’ll be cheered tonite, rightfully so, but soon he’ll be booed in NY. they wont give him long.
GREAT MOVE WREN!!! now, lets wait and get huddy and infante back and make a little run at it…(hopefully without a huge letdown from the pen)
Bry22
July 16th, 2009
4:52 pm
You are an IDIOT!
Sonny Clusters
July 16th, 2009
4:52 pm
Jeff was not going down. He’s already been in Gwinnett and we was state champion. Jeff dont have nothing to prove now and since hes with the Mets he wont be proving nothing. Unless somebody throws Jeff something to hit he wont be hitting he’ll be sitting. Why would anybody give him something to hit? If he dont swing at the first pitch then somebody is coaching him and he dont take well to coaching unless you mean daddy ball back when we was playing together in Gwinnett a long time ago. Clusters has been in Gwinnett way before they painted the water tower back when it said “Gwinett is Great” and one day Jeff climbed up there and painted his number on the tank and it looked like it was calling Jeff great instead of Gwinnett and Jeff could pull stuff like that all day and make us all laugh all the time. Thats why we liked hanging around with him after the games along with the free ice cream and doing things like finger pulls and making rude noises. We was always a lot of fun.
Terry Pendleton
July 16th, 2009
4:53 pm
Jeff, I was your fan even after you ditched me for that hitting coach in TX. I got over it and when you were traded wished you well. What I havent got over is the comment you made yesterday to a NY newspaper about NY being passionate about their baseball and ATL is not. You are right, winners are not too passionate about seeing their big bat strike out at pitches in the dirt!!
blazerdawg
July 16th, 2009
4:53 pm
Jeff-
What has Atlanta done in the past to make you believe that we would boo Francouer?
I expect a very warm welcome home.
rolltidered
July 16th, 2009
4:54 pm
Thank you for this article! I think that the Church-Francoeur trade was an even swap AT BEST, and I think that the Braves may eventually live to regret it. I have nothing but love for Frenchy, and I hope that he continues to light it up for the Mets.
Rich
July 16th, 2009
4:55 pm
There are two ways of looking at it really. The first being that the Braves did not pull the trigger on this deal for Ryan Church, rather than to simply unload Francoeur. Secondly, while Church does not impact the Braves’ chances at reaching the playoffs this year, neither did Francoeur.
He needed a change of scenery and they gave it to him. Hopefully it works for him. If you really like Francoeur, be happy for him since, as he told a NY newspaper last week, he wanted out of here since they sent him to the minors last year. He got what he wanted.
As a fan of the guy, he should be cheered in his first at-bat tonight, or when he first takes the field, whichever comes first. Beyond that, he’s a Met, and as a player not in a Braves uniform, the cheering should then cease.
Feel free to drop by the Sports Buffet every Monday night and share your opinions at http://blogtalkradio.com/PSP.
biff pocahontas, uh roba
July 16th, 2009
4:56 pm
i agree with ya sonny, why would anyone give him anything to hit. just throw the really high fastball and he’ll be sitting down. kinda like andruw and the curve. don’t know why guys throw strikes to these two.
Akmed Picklesimer
July 16th, 2009
4:56 pm
There are two players in particular I would like to see tear it up in the second half (if for no other reason than to shut people up): Church and Kotchman.
I think Kotchman, especially, has the chance to be somebody to hits for a decent average, hits 15-20 dingers, a bunch of doubles and drives in 80-plus runs. But, because he’s not Fred McGriff (and he’s missed some time) people want to dump him as a bust. He’s not a bust yet. I think he’ll be good D and good hit. He certainly can be a solid starter until Freddie Freeman is ready.
HomeBoy Upstairs
July 16th, 2009
4:59 pm
Jeff,
It’s simple…like Bravedawg said, he was getting non-tendered in December. Personally, I am shocked that Wren was able to get anyone of value for the guy. As for upside, the facts speak for themselves. You simply are what you are. Want more evidence? How ’bout this from Kansas City Star columnist Joe Posnanski:
“[Francoeur] has been playing every day since the beginning of the 2008 season. Over that time — that’s 875 plate appearances — he has been hitting .244/.287/.355. That’s an OPS+ of 69, if you are scoring at home.
How bad is an OPS+ of 69?
*This bad: Tony Pena Jr., who may be the worst Major League hitter I have ever seen — a guy who in the last two years has been hitting .160 — had an OPS+ of 66 his only full season in the big leagues.
*This bad: In 2008, Jason Kendall slugged .324. … In 2007, Juan Uribe had a .284 on-base percentage. … In 2007, Juan Pierre hit zero home runs in 729 plate appearances … In 1995, Jeff Blauser hit .211 … In 1979 Rodney Scott slugged (SLUGGED) .294 … In 1989 Cory Snyder had a .251 on-base percentage …What do all these have in common? Right: All of these players had an OPS+ better than 69.
*This bad: EIGHTY pitchers with at least 100 plate appearances in the big leagues have career OPS+ better than 69.
*This bad: There have been only four corner outfielders the last 50 years who have played a full year with an OPS+ of 69 or worse. Two of those four — Vince Coleman and Brian Hunter — at least led the league in stolen bases.
– Wait, one more bit of trivia, this time about that .355 slugging percentage — here is a partial list of players who have had better slugging percentages than our guy since the beginning of 2008: Denard Span, Jeff Keppinger, Juan Pierre (yes, Juan Pierre), Yuniesky Betancourt, Ryan Sweeney, John Buck, Erick Aybar, Lastings Milledge, Pedro Feliz, Chase Headley and Bill Hall.
dawg22
July 16th, 2009
5:01 pm
jeff schultz is the jeff we should have traded!!!
Wally Post
July 16th, 2009
5:03 pm
Lets face it, the Braves screwed up this guy by not letting him truly develop in the minors. He was having problems there. But the real reason he failed here is the “Ghost of #7.” Anyone remember Brad Komminsk? Years ago, he was the next great thing to play right field and hit tons of homers for the Braves. He wore #7, and it never happened for him. Should have just changed his number.
biff pocahontas, uh roba
July 16th, 2009
5:03 pm
ruffin, i think TP helped kj, didn’t he. maybe it was schafer. or was it andruw? oh, i know who it was, rafael soriano. that’s right, showed him which side of the plate to stand on..
BravesFan79
July 16th, 2009
5:05 pm
I think Jeff would of been better off with a coach that MADE him take pitches and work the count. I think (assuming the Braves have a new Manager and hopefully new hitting coach next year) that he would of been a better player for us in 2010.
Id like to ask Jeff if hed ever like to come back to the Braves as a free agent? assuming he improved his stock of course….
John
July 16th, 2009
5:07 pm
I agree 100% keeping Fran. Just wait untill he matures some more. I hope he leds the league in everything in a few years. I relly believe the reason he left is because of the pressure on Wren. Trade that dang Jones. Leds the league in errows at third.
Doc
July 16th, 2009
5:09 pm
Just like an stupid, ignorant Georgia fan from Savannah that comes with that crap. I’m sure glad your daughter can color good, it proves she’s already more talented than you.
Until we get rid of Pendleton and Wren, the playoffs will never be back in Atlanta and this kid never asked to be a superstar, that label was placed on him by this town’s media and fans. All he ever wanted was to be an everyday player and help contribute. But its the coaches job to make sure he continues to improve and they failed terribly. If they didn’t have the guts to send him down and get him help, thats their fault not his. He tried going a different route in the off season because apparently Pendleton can’t coach( Andrew Jones, Mark DeRosa, Kelly Johnson, Jordan Schaffer, etc…). Wren and Pendleton got their panties in a wad because he didn’t want to work with them, we’ll given their track record who would. Our best two hitters(Chipper and McCann) don’t even listen to him, their dads are their coaches, so get ready for another failed season.
35YearBravesFan
July 16th, 2009
5:12 pm
Jeff – He wasn’t gonna make it here. I hope he figures himself out. But when he doesn’t listen to Chipper, fagettabout it. Not on the Braves. It’s been a lonnnnggggg time since I’ve seen Bobby give up on a player like he did with Frenchy.
I hope we POUND the Mutts!!!!
GO BRAVES!!
sal governale
July 16th, 2009
5:13 pm
I would boo anyone who admits to quitting on his teammates, as Frenchy did. Until he returns the millions that he stole while not trying, I’ll be booing. (Although I have to admit, I couldn’t tell a difference between last year when he wasn’t trying and this year when he was trying.)
Schultz, you’re underestimating how much of an upgrade an average player like Church is over Frenchy. The trade meant that Cox no longer has the opportunity to write the name of the least productive hitter in baseball in the lineup every day. That’s a pretty valuable return, in my opinion.
Space Monkey
July 16th, 2009
5:14 pm
Frenchy’s a big baby who wouldn’t accept going to the minors to get right. Boo him till he cries. We’re lucky we got a rosin bag back for this load. He will be out of baseball in two years. He’ll have to go to the minors next year. I don’t even think he could contribute to Gwinnett, much less Atlanta’s future. No team will sign him at his arbitration rate.
Greg from Marietta
July 16th, 2009
5:15 pm
I said it when they were discussing the trade, I said it in the Blogs after the trade and I’ll say it again now; “This trade will come back to bite the Braves and Wren in the butt!!” The Braves management gave up on Francoeur way to soon. It may not be this year but you mark my words Jeff will make the Braves pay for trading him away.
Lady Di
July 16th, 2009
5:16 pm
I hope Jeff beats the socks off us; scores at each at bat!
bravesgirlnc
July 16th, 2009
5:17 pm
Great trade so I disagree with you Jeff. Could Frenchy turn into a star? Of course! Is he statistically one of (if not the worst) corner outfielders in all of baseball? Yes. And he has been for the last two years. I thing the big guys wanted to move him for more but his is up for another year of arbitration this year which would have made trading him over the winter that much trickier.
That all being said (and I am not a big fan) I would not boo him. Despite his attitude, I have no doubts that he busted his tail every game and made every effort to live up to his potential. It just did not work out.
Sanford Drive
July 16th, 2009
5:19 pm
Hold your horses on the UGA bashing. Last time I checked, this was a Braves blog, so let’s not broach an irrelevant topic. Also, there are idiots everywhere, maybe even a few from YOUR alma mater.
Good move on Wren’s part. We got the best we could out of the deal. Frenchy was certainly stuck in a rut in Atlanta. He still has a lot of potential. Perhaps this trade will serve him well. I certainly wouldn’t boo if I attended the game. Best of luck to him.
Roy Hobbs
July 16th, 2009
5:21 pm
DP, you did my work for me. The fact that he is as young as he is and has 2500 career at bats, with those stats, should tell you where the problem lies. He should never have accumulated that many at bats. He should have spent the ENTIRE second half of last year at AA or AAA, working with hitting INSTRUCTORS. If, after an extended attempt to fix his swing in the relative peace and quiet of the minors, he had not come around, then trade him. But I dont see how you can trade this guy without at least trying EVERYTHING to fix his swing.
biff pocahontas, uh roba
July 16th, 2009
5:23 pm
ladies, when jeffy pops up on the infield, please just acknowledge that. just say to yourselves, man, biff”the stiff” was right. he does pop out alot. mark my words, although he may put a little more effort into tonite and get it out to right field, ya know, with a little grunt.
Fungo
July 16th, 2009
5:26 pm
There must be some behind-the-scenes stuff for the Francoeur trade to have been made. You don’t trade a guy to a division opponent unless that guy really pi**ed the wrong people off in the organization. Besides, it was a lateral trade at best, with the Mets probably getting the better end of it. Has to be more to this story than the Braves are letting on.
biff pocahontas, uh roba
July 16th, 2009
5:26 pm
Enter your comments here
marshall
July 16th, 2009
5:28 pm
Schultz as someone mentioned earlier the braves were going to non-tender him. So the rest of your article is moot. I half expect you to delete the rest of my comment but here goes:
to all the players that played with him in the minors and at parkview, do you think he changed? He was one of the nicest guys then, level headed and a stud. Ran into him last yr and he came across as a total d$_K .
He was on top of the sports world two yrs ago – cover of SI, golf w/ tiger woods, now umm not so much. We’ve all played with roided up guys before, jeff never had to he was always a man among boys – I’m hoping this is all mental, if so he will figure it out. He’s only 25.
We all know their is no virtue in building someone up only to kick the chair from under them, instead of hoping he falls off the chair, root for the underdog.
The Grinch
July 16th, 2009
5:31 pm
The best thing that could POSSIBLY happen for the Braves out of this trade is for Francouer to start hitting. That would finally expose TP enough to get his fat behind fired. Then we could promote Chambliss, and watch our .250 hitters “suddenly” become .280 hitters. The move had to be made. Plus, JF was an ass.
CLIFF
July 16th, 2009
5:34 pm
Coming Soon Now the way is cleared for Jason Heyward .
the truth...
July 16th, 2009
5:36 pm
There is no doubt that you are right on this one Jeff. Personally I hope he burns our Braves every game this series…Wren and the front office are so wrong in this trade….
There is no point on my going on and on….it is simple and enough has been said about it from all sides….
Schultz right….Bradley wrong….DOB….knew better but wrong on this one…
Go after them Franceour…make them pay in every way.
hounddog
July 16th, 2009
5:36 pm
When Ted lost control of the Braves the downward spiral began. This is just another example of them circling the drain.
Shane (The original)
July 16th, 2009
5:38 pm
can turn out to be a pretty special player.
This is the funniest thing I have read in weeks. Francouer will be out of baseball in 2 years.
What evidence is there in his resume that Church can do either?
Not much but its more evidence than Francouer could.
Roy Hobbs
July 16th, 2009
5:39 pm
Its funny that everyone here assumes that Arbitration would be a horrible thing. Its a fact based process, and if he is truly the worst position player in history, the Braves should be excited about being able to propose the lowest arbitration number in history.
Again, he should have been sent to AA or AAA and given all of the second half of last year to work on getting his head and swing right. The fact that TP could not teach him, and Cox could not coach him, and Wren could not call the shots just tells you that something worse than JF was wrong here. These guys are scared to tell a player who is under contract that he is not getting it done and has to go to the minors? Seriously.