Hawks should consider trading Johnson, not Smith
Sorry, Mr. Johnson. But you just haven't measured up in the playoffs, unlike that guy behind you. (Kent Johnson/kjohnson@ajc.com.)
Almost every player on the Hawks’ roster is either at the end of a contract, or near the end of a contract, or on somebody’s, “Let’s drop-kick this guy out of town,” list.
Josh Smith doesn’t have a contract issue. That tells you what category he fits in.
But if you really believe the Hawks need to shake things up this off-season and possibly trade one of their starters, don’t look at Josh Smith. Look at Joe Johnson.
People, this isn’t even close.
This week’s Countdown . . .
10: Ordinary Joe: 2-for-18 in playoffs
Joe Johnson is a three-time All-Star. I felt I needed to get that out there right away because it seems like any time somebody criticizes Joe Johnson, one of his defenders screams, “He’s a three-time All-Star!” But this is business and these are the facts: Joe has one year left on his contract. He just completed an awful post-season, during which he played one good game and 10 generally crummy ones. In last year’s playoffs, he went 1-for-7 against Boston. This is not what you want from a guy who’s supposed to be your best player, especially when the game’s matter most. It’s certainly not what you want from a player who should be your leader but seldom acts like one. Or acts like he wants to be one. Joe’s one of those quiet guys who just wants to do his thing, whatever his thing is. But that’s not good enough here.
9. Sund has some difficult decisions
General manager Rick Sund just completed his first season. I’m not suggesting that his first makeover would be a failure if he doesn’t trade Joe Johnson. But it’s something he should look at. Just tweaking this roster may not be enough to get this team to the next level. With Johnson turning 28, chances are we’ve seen the best he has to offer. His skill set would be valuable on the trade market to elite teams that are looking for a complimentary player to round out their roster. He potentially could fetch a lot in trade. It’s worth exploring. Here’s why:
8. Team’s core is smaller than you think
Yes, Josh Smith can be maddening. But he has talent, upside and youth -- and he outplayed Johnson in the playoffs. (Curtis Compton/ccompton@ajc.com.)
I hear a lot about the Hawks’ having a great core of players. Don’t know about that. But if that’s true, here’s how I would list the guys to build around: 1) Al Horford (absolute); 2) Josh Smith (probably); 3) Marvin Williams (maybe). Johnson is not a core piece. Chances are, he’s out the door next year. Mike Bibby might be gone already. Yes, Smith is maddening. But he remains by far the most talented player on the roster with the most upside. The Hawks’ greatest nightmare would be dealing him and then seeing him turn into a human wrecking machine with another team and under another coach. He scored 26 points in Game 4 against Cleveland. He certainly outplayed and outscored Johnson in these playoffs. You don’t trade Josh Smith. He’s a difference maker. Even if sometimes the difference is for the other team.
7. Lights! Camera! Ethiopia?
It sounds like a set-up line. “So there’s this heavyweight fight in Ethiopia . . .” But it could be true. Spoke to Evander Holyfield and there’s a chance his next fight could be against some guy named Sammy Retta July 25 in Ethiopia. The bout would be part of a celebrity fundraiser for AIDS research and would pay Holyfield $1 million, which is about $1 million more than anybody else is offering him to fight. Manager Ken Sanders said officials from the potential event have been phoning him for several weeks and seem serious about it but he still puts the chances of it coming as “50-50.” Holyfield and Sanders are going to Ethiopia Saturday for four days on a promoter’s tab to check it out. Meanwhile, Holyfield is still upset that, “They keep making me get back in line.” We explain . . .
Some local residents begin construction on an outdoor boxing ring in Ethiopia.
6. WBA: “Nothing to see here. Move along.”
Holyfield is 46. I don’t even ask him about retirement any more. But he probably was robbed in his last bout for the WBA title against Nikolai Valuev, losing a disputed majority decision in Zurich. Holyfield filed a protest. With boxing sanctioning bodies, this generally is as successful as the mafia’s court of appeals. Holyfield: “They said they had 10 judges look at tape. Six voted for Valuev and four voted for me, and that was it. They said, ‘Well, we looked at it.’” But Holyfield said the WBA all but assured him he can fight the winner of the Valuev-Ruslan Chagaev fight, which is May 30. The potential fight in Ethiopia shouldn’t be an issue. The opponent, Retta, is listed as a 35-year-old cruiserweight with a record of 18-3.
5. Layla Kiffin (Did that hook you in?)
Here's Layla Kiffin, standing with two unidentified schmoes.
The Knoxville News ran a story on the Kiffin family, but I’m pretty sure it was just to provide slobbering male SEC football fans with a photo gallery that includes several pictures of coach Lane Kiffin’s wife, Layla. Not that there’s anything wrong with that. By the way, did you know that there’s now a Facebook group that’s called, “Our Coach’s Wife is Hotter Than Your Coach’s Wife”? It already has 5,790 members. If you’re a Facebook member, here’s the link.
4. Roger Clemens is innocent
Not really. But he says he is. Again. There’s a new book out, “American Icon: The Fall of Roger Clemens And the Rise of Steroids in America’s Pastime,” and Clemens felt the need to go on the radio again and claim that everybody is lying and he’s innocent, and that he wouldn’t think of taking drugs because his father and brother died young of heart attacks, and, “It would be suicidal for me to take any kind of dangerous drug.” Several syringes are expected to offer rebuttal testimony in the coming weeks.
3. Hey, Jim: Tony Cole still has eligibility left
Tony Cole: inmate.
I realize this covers a lot of judicial proceedings, but Tony Cole might be the worst human being ever given an athletic scholarship at Georgia. If you missed the latest, Cole, who lit the grease fire that helped eventually bring down Jim Harrick and the Georgia basketball program in one of the most embarrassing scandals in NCAA history, is in Cook County (Ill.) jail and just got into a fight with another inmate. The Chicago Sun Times reported that Cole told a corrections officer: “This is how you run this jail? I am going to call my people and I am going to call the press.” Hah! Wait. Is this where Jeremy Schaap comes in?
2. Anybody got Jesse on speed-dial?
Just a little reminder of Tony Cole days in Athens. (Curtis Compton/ccompton@ajc.com.)
Cole is in prison (lately) for violating terms of his parole. Something about a protection order of a former girlfriend whom he is accused of punching. He also is being blamed for the forced resignation of the Chief Financial Officer in Cook County, which the more I read about it makes Clayton County government look like nirvana. The CFO, a woman, hired Cole for a $61,000 a year government job despite his past criminal convictions and twice bailed him out of jail without telling anybody. During one recent court appearance, Cole, according to the Sun Times, said, “My whole case needs to be looked at,” and then turned to a reporter asked that they summon the Rev. Jesse Jackson to help him. Yeah. That’ll happen. If you want to get caught up on the miserable life and times of Tony Cole, here’s a helpful link.
1. The new fight scene
If Holyfield’s fight in Ethiopia falls through, I believe Somalia and Yemen have recently built casinos and are looking for a draw.
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287 comments Add your comment
Hawks73
May 12th, 2009
11:08 am
Jeff, I agreed with all of your points in regards to Joe Johnson and the players the Hawks should keep. I think it’s also essential that they resign Pachulia, Murray, and possibly Bibby (at the right price). Marvin has upside which explains why they should keep him…Joe could certainly attract the type of trade potential the Hawks need (draft picks and or established center/point guard.
Mr. Fill (formerly ScoobySnacks)
May 12th, 2009
11:12 am
You through me here Schultzy. I am reading what seems to be a very ingaging argument to keep Josh Smith and then suddenly I am in Ethiopia with Evander Holyfield and wondering about an inmates eligibility. Then I realized this was one of your five-things list. Might want to mention that up front before you get sued for causing whiplash with the sudden turns.
Mr. Fill (formerly ScoobySnacks)
May 12th, 2009
11:13 am
P.s. you will notice your shifts and turns caused me to have multiple grammatic difficulties in my previous response. You can expect to hear from my representatives.
Brian_ATLYYZ
May 12th, 2009
11:19 am
True, JJ underperformed for most of this postseason, but I don’t think he was nearly dismal enough to merit these “get rid of Joe” discussions. Let’s not forget, he was pretty-consistently double-teamed in every game with both Miami and Cleveland, and that’s sure to hamper anyone’s success. The other thing to consider is that, as illustrated by the Cleveland “haves” and the Miami “have-nots,” it’s crucial that the supporting cast shows up to play on a consistent level. This means having the niche players successfully execute their roles (memo to Josh: please either spend every other day of the summer working on your jumper, or be happy with driving to the basket).
Let’s face it: injuries were a HUGE part of why the Hawks couldn’t seal the deal against the Cavs. Even though they were on the floor, JJ, Marvin, and Al are only human. I’m not trying to make excuses (and, thankfully, neither are the Hawks), but it’s easy to cheer for a guy who gets injured and then MAKES his foul shots.
To me, the only significant thing that could have been realistically improved prior to the playoffs (besides keeping everyone healthy) was figuring out how to use Mike Bibby on defense. Even with last night’s poor showing, I wouldn’t want to trade his offensive production in ANY case; the Hawks just need to figure out how to realistically make use of a guy who, to be honest, isn’t the best defender (and CERTAINLY not when he’s stuck against Lebron).
Ed
May 12th, 2009
11:20 am
Jeff, did you consider Josh never saw a double team the whole playoffs?
Maybe its more coaching and adjustments than the current players.
Ellis St. John
May 12th, 2009
11:21 am
Jeff, I normally disagree with you. But you hit the nail on the head with your assessment of with what the Hawks should do with Joe Johnson.
Ayanna
May 12th, 2009
11:24 am
I don’t know Jeff. Joe Johnson has a fan base. Most of the people walking around Philips Arena sports a Joe Johnson jersey. Trade Joe and the Hawks will loose fans. Ahhh, and they were just starting to fill up the arena. To further prove my point Joe Johnson just got the Fan Favorite Award. I don’t think the Hawks wanna piss the fans off, okay.
J
May 12th, 2009
11:28 am
Unless your going to trade JJ for LeBron, Kobe, or DWade, you don’t do it. You think this offense stinks? Take Joe out of it and you’ve got a disaster.
I honestly believe we’re one player away from being able to compete with the elites. We either have to get a legit center or legit point guard.
As is, this team is way too easy to defend. Once the double team forces Joe to give it up, we don’t have the players to take advantage of it. Some of that falls on the coach, but certainly not all – we are glaringly lacking in talent at the 1 and the 5. Al, Josh, & Joe are the core of this team – the rest are all fair-to-middling and can stay or go.
Darrin "The Vent King"
May 12th, 2009
11:28 am
It’s the coach, not JJ…
Ayanna
May 12th, 2009
11:33 am
Trade Joe and see a huge part of the Hawks fan base walk just like when they got rid of Dominique. I honestly think they should keep all five starters and maybe tweak the bench. Which I don’t know what the bench is capable of because they hardly played.
jake
May 12th, 2009
11:34 am
yeah, this is good….i remember 10 years ago we wanted to shake things up and traded a guy named steve smith to prtland for isiah rider and jim jackson, and let mookey go…truned out real good for us…. keep joe and josh and poickup another piece, dont go down that road again
HHBO
May 12th, 2009
11:35 am
The Spurs…. The Spurs are one team who would take a serious look at Joe Johnson in a trade, with Manu on the decline. Don’t know what they would/could give in return, but at the least, it would be a nice thank you to Joe for all of his hard work in Atlanta and he would be a perfect fit for their system as a complimentary player. Go tell Sund…
Ayanna
May 12th, 2009
11:36 am
Everybody talking about how great Al is. I didn’t see him do anything all year. HIs rookie year was way better than his sophomore year. How about trading Al Horford.
AGTFan
May 12th, 2009
11:37 am
It’s interesting you list Horford ahead of Josh. Big Al also had a mediocre post-season. I’m not advocating trading Big Al or anyone. This team is still a work in progress. Stay with the plan. Tweak the lineup not overhaul it.
Timus
May 12th, 2009
11:37 am
Definitely got to go Joe!! He will never take the Hawks to the promised land. We should send him and Marvin packing. We should keep Bibby, Josh and Horford. They are a good foundation for a contention squad. We need a marquee player. Someone who could score forty if need be. Someone with a killer instinct like Kobe and Lebron. And excels under pressure and doesn’t wilt like lettuce. It would be a big mistake to keep Joe.
Realist
May 12th, 2009
11:40 am
Yes, please subject us to another few years of Josh Smith’s throwing the ball out of bounds, chucking random 22-footers and generally looking clueless. That is something you can build around.
Realist
May 12th, 2009
11:42 am
Oh by the way, how could the Atlanta Spirit Group even consider trading away the player they once called the Hawks’ version of “Larry Bird?”
And wouldn’t it be ironic if Joe Johnson’s time in Atlanta came and went before the ownership dispute ever got resolved? Maybe we can just forget the whole thing happened and all be friends again.
cursive
May 12th, 2009
11:42 am
The funniest (and saddest) thing about Clemens was that he didn’t even say that his father had a heart attack, he said step-father. I heard him on Mike & Mike this morning and he made it sound like his bloodline had a genetic disposition toward heart disease, then he name dropped his step-father… Ha ha ha.
Football Ken
May 12th, 2009
11:45 am
Hey Jeff,
Gotta disagree with you on this one. Josh Smith will never ever reach his potential playng in ATL(home). He has too many distractions, now that he has money, he will never feel the need to become an elite player. Let’s not forget Horford is a PF, by position. So it’s not like we are losing at that position. Josh Smith and the Coach Woody thing has gotten old. Smith wants to be a leader but doesn’t know how to. Granted JJ was exposed this playoff season for what he really is, a complimentary player, but he has to be top 2-3 SG in guard in the East. Whereas, Smith mentally may be the 2nd best PF on our team. Plus , you could get more for Smith in a trade than Johnson. Schutlzie, you got this wrong, get rid of Smith, potential is just that potential. Johnson is proven.
BugKiller
May 12th, 2009
11:45 am
Ayanna… I’m sorry, but you’re basketball ignorant.
This postseason proved without a shadow of a doubt that Al Horford is the most INDISPENSABLE player on the Hawks’ roster.
Every game he missed due to injury, they lost.
Joe Johnson is a joke. He’s the worst “leader” I think I’ve ever seen.
He doesn’t lead by example, as his crappy performance in the playoffs have proven.
He doesn’t lead by words, unlike a non-playing Kevin Garnett is doing with the Celtics from the bench in a suit.
He couldn’t inspire a thirsty man to drink water, let alone this basketball team. He is by far the least inspirational “leader” I think I’ve ever seen on a basketball team.
He’s a bit player with good skills. He is not the guy who gets his team fired up. He’s not the guy who leads.
Joe Johnson is the guy who follows.
AL HORFORD is the guy who LEADS.
This postseason cemented that fact.
Jeff, who’d a thunk, that when all is said and done about Joe Johnson, that Steve Belkan was right all along.
Then again, we should have known about Joe Johnson. I mean, Billy Knight wanted him so bad he WAY overpaid for him, kinda like he did with Marvin, Sheldon, Speedy, and every other draft pick / free agent not named Smith or Horford.
Looks like this team is STILL cleaning up after Knight’s messes.
RealSquawk
May 12th, 2009
11:46 am
Enter your comments here
GT
May 12th, 2009
11:48 am
This team was an improvement. It had gone from the very worst to respectible. So what if Cleveland blew them out, they will and have blown out a lot of teams. No one has agreed with anything the Hawks have done like they were the Braves during the 70s or something. No change of course is needed yet, they are owed some respect or the paid experts are losing some of mine by not knowing what they are talking about or knowing and not caring enough to make it right.
Ayanna
May 12th, 2009
11:50 am
Trade Joe and I guarantee he will score 40 pts on the Hawks when he plays for his new team. Joe works harder on that court than any player on the Hawks squad. He’s double teamed, tripled teamed, and most of the time still manages to get at least 21 pts. He’s the Hawks’ leading scorer and assists man. Bibby is our point guard and yet JJ gets more assists than him. How the heck does your shooting guard get more assists than your point guard.
Trade Joe instead of Josh Smith, please. The reason why Josh doesn’t get double teamed and tripled teamed is because teams don’t respect him as a shooter. They only worry about him dunking on them. He’s not very level headed. Sometimes I question his IQ.
The Hawks will be better off keeping both players and building around them.
MJ3
May 12th, 2009
11:52 am
I have to seriously, seriously question the intelligence of anyone who implies we keep Josh over Joe. Seriously. Wow.
RickNole
May 12th, 2009
11:53 am
Al certainly took a step backwards this postseason. I hope that was due to injury. But he look uncomfortable the whole post season. Not once in any of the playoff games did we see that fire that he had last season against Boston where he was all over the floor and flexing his muscles.
I am a Nole but I definitely want that Gator to improve upon his performances and I am sure he will.
ON anothter note, It really is time for Woody to step aside and let someone improve on the X’s and O’s. Someone that has the cazones to slap Josh everytime he jacks up a jumpshot (unless he significantly improves over the summer)
willie
May 12th, 2009
11:53 am
Joe is too good a player to let go. Is he a superstar that can beat double-teams? No, but only a few guys in the league are. We need to find another player comparable to Joe to put with him, Josh, Horford, Marvin, Flip. Bibby should definitely not be re-signed. We need to finally give Acie Laws a chance, but bring in a decent veteran PG also. We need another scorer to go along with Joe!
ILL-logical
May 12th, 2009
11:55 am
Interesting premise but the devil is in the details: Yes, Bibby is gone so you have to get a point guard,pronto. And yes, Joe is still considered a good 3rd option on a championship team not named the Hawks. And certainly Josh has emerged from the local media led assault on his character by performing well on the national stage.But the real issue is the Hawks system which did not win plaudits from the national media during the playoffs.
Simply put, the Hawks require a system that plays to the players strenths,ie athleticism, and places them in the positions that allows them to exploit their strengths. What they have now is a ssystem that is built on executive fiat and personal vendetta that does not develop the individuals who are not favored regardless of their ability to contibute to the team.That is a problem and until that is solved, all other issues will remain secondarily relevent.
Bernie Matt
May 12th, 2009
11:56 am
Finally, a sports journalist using his own ability to analyze what’s really wrong with this team, rather than the follow the crowd mentality of the so called experts, yelling trade Josh. Sure, Josh may miss a lot of jump shots and take some ill advised shots at times, but what is he supposed to do when Joe dribbles the shot clock down to 3 seconds on almost every possession then passes the ball(Woody’s offense – send him out of town with Joe). With Josh, you never have to wonder whether he’s here to play. He’s always passionate with his play and he’s willing to put himself on the line for the team, like he did with the hard fouls on people driving to the lane to let them know the Hawks are not pushovers. Contrast that with Joe’s passion and effort or lack thereof. Jump shots can be developed and learned, HEART AND PASSION can not. Nique couldn’t shoot the jumper when he came into the league either, but the passion to go toe-to-toe with the likes of Larry Bird, Michael Jordan and the Pistons Bad Boys is why he in the Hall of Fame, along with his ability to score (which Josh can do). Fancy dribbling by Joe leads to crap, people who say otherwise, don’t know the GAME!
jonathan friedman
May 12th, 2009
11:56 am
jeff you don’t have a clue! Without Joe johnson we would never be in this position, your forgetting to mention that in the playoffs he was double teamed throughout. The team is still building and your ready to jump ship. Cleveland wins games because lebron has a great supporting cast which has taken 6 years to build. Learn a little pro basketball then write a column, what did you expect, for us to beat cleveland? Just look at the numbers to see how this team has improved throughout the years. Also Johnson got hurt and continue to give us production, now thats a leader.
Ayanna
May 12th, 2009
11:56 am
I haven’t seen Horford lead squat. Give me an example. Horford is the scariest big man I have ever seen. Every time the team is challenged he tries to say that he’s hurt. Horford is not a leader. If he was then the question of who is the leader on the team would not have come up.
Ain’t nothing Boss about Horford. Horford didn’t even score any points last night. After I got home from the game I saw the stats. Check your stats.
WillieWilson
May 12th, 2009
11:57 am
After seeing Joe last year in the series with Boston, I wouldnt trade Joe Johnson for anyone. Joe is a great player and simply had a bad series against Cleveland. Players are human and go through dry spells when they have awful shooting nights. It has nothing to do with talent. I saw it happen to Boston’s Ray Allen last year when he had 1-12 and 2-20 shooting nights. Allen is a first ballot hall of famer and if it can happen to Allen it can happen to anyone great. Joe Johnson is better than most people give him credit for. I feel like Joe was frustrated because he knew that even if he were dominating the series with Cleveland, he wasnt getting the proper help from his supporting cast and the Hawks were not clicking on all cylinders. If the Hawks were all playing well and they were injury free, the Hawks would have swept the Cavs this year, but it didnt happen. I think the next piece to the puzzle for the Hawks is to acquire Antonio MyDyess from the Detroit Pistons. Then acquire one more BIG body after that, an athletic player and the Hawks SHOULD be on the level with the Cavs, Magic, Celtics and Lakers, provided they resign Mike Bibby and everyone comes back to camp improved.
RealSquawk
May 12th, 2009
11:57 am
Jeff I would not trade Joe. The TNT crew talked about this exact same thing, whether they build around Joe Johnson or Josh Smith. They didn’t give a clear answer, but the general consensus was Joe. One of the reasons why is that they would never get back enough in return. Joe Johnson is the third best shooting guard in the league. And I personally think that Josh Smith is our most trade able asset and here is why
He is viewed as having the most upside around the league ( I am guessing) so he would get the greatest return. We could get a veteran on an expiring contract and draft picks probably not lottery protected. Now we got a veteran whose contract expires in 2010 and Joe’s who contract expires in 2010 we got Al Horford and Acie Law still on their rookie contract and Marvin on hopefully a reasonable deal. We have cap space to sign another big named free agent a center most likely and Joe Johnson. You can’t beat that. It’s a risk, but its possible.
If you trade Joe on the other hand what are you going to get from a team a few pieces away. Draft picks will be worthless and players of lesser value.
BugKiller
May 12th, 2009
11:58 am
It’s interesting the point that everyone brings up “Joe is a great scorer” (um, no he’s not) and “Joe just needs more help” (maybe it’s the team that needs someone besides Joe)…
… but not a single “Joe Fan” is saying anything about Joe’s abysmal leadership skills or the fact that he has the personality of a wet paper bag.
Once again, Joe Johnson is not a leader. He’s a follower. He’s not a guy you pay max money to, BECAUSE he’s not a leader, he’s a follower.
This means Joe must go, and someone else must be brought in. Joe isn’t worth the money he makes, because the money he makes says he must lead.
But all Joe wants to do is follow.
scott
May 12th, 2009
12:01 pm
JEFF-
the problem isn’t that you argue that Joe should be traded, but that you never propose what we should reasonably expect in return. if we’re going to trade (arguably) our best player, then we need to get fair market value in return. i understand Joe can be valuable for another team, but what player will be valuable for us going forward who we can get in return?
Jonathan
May 12th, 2009
12:03 pm
I’m not sold on getting rid of Joe. He came to Atlanta when he knew we were in rebuilding mode and he helped us steadily improve to become the 4th best team in the conference. Billy King who has been steadily dissed over the years actually built this team into a young, talented group who was bolstered by bringing in Murray last summer.
Now we need to address the center position. Keep Pachulia and Horford, the indispensable man. All of our main players have had injuries over the years but when Al was injured this year, we were not a competitive team. Zasa played well in the playoffs and should stay as he is still very young.
Bibby is not getting younger and, other than being a clutch 3-point shooter, he doesn’t help much. He cannot guard big point guards and his ball handling is spotty.
Marvin has made steady progress but needs to take it to the next level to justify his draft position years ago.
Focus on getting a big man and trading for a new point guard.
freshd
May 12th, 2009
12:04 pm
The HAWKS need to drop BIBBY and MARVIN “always hurt” WILLIAMS. To trade JOE would validate STEVE BELKIN claim about JOE. I do think they overpaid for JOE, but they need get some veteran big men with size, who can bang on the inside. The HAWKS big men are soft and undersized. Lebroun was thicker than any of the HAWKS big men. MIKE BIBBY is still a good outside shooter, but he is a “MATADOR” on defense.
Ayanna
May 12th, 2009
12:04 pm
Last night Josh could have gotten a few loose balls. Instead he was just standing there looking like who’s gonna get that. And guess who got it, a Cleveland Cavalier.
Yes, Josh stepped up in the post season. He was supposed too. But when we the crowd kept begging him not to shoot jumpers he shot them anyway. Jumpers killed the Hawks in this series. We needed our bigs to step up and stay in the paint. Josh wanted to be the hero in the playoffs, but he went about it the wrong way. Team comes before individual pursuits.
RealSquawk
May 12th, 2009
12:04 pm
Bernie Matt. Josh does not always play with passion. most of the time he plays as if some little kid stole his lunch money.
And then there is a difference between playing with passion and yelling at the referees every chance you get. Just because Joe doesn’t yell after every made shot or dunk, does not mean he isn’t passionate. He is passionate, but he has bigger goals.
Just look at the post game comments. Joe: this will leave a sour taste in our mouths. Josh: I am not going to let this SWEEP get me down.
NEW CARS
May 12th, 2009
12:06 pm
I like Joe…but I’m with you…he has shown no leadership qualities..I don’t know where we would trade him, but I wouldn’t mind looking up and seeing a different point guard (Bibby is not going to be worth the money), two guard and coach…If we don’t, we will stagnate at 40-42 wins and not move forward
newkid
May 12th, 2009
12:07 pm
About Smith you said: “But he remains by far the most talented player on the roster with the most upside.” Well if basketball were golf or tennis, then perhaps you’d have a solid argument. But then if I were Bill Gates or Warren Buffet, I’d be financially comfortable. Basketball is a team sport best played when individuals synchronize their on court activities in pursuit of a common goal, regardless of differences in levels of physical talent (reference: Cleveland Cavaliers). A significant, but less often considered, team attribute is the display of basketball intelligence by the on floor ensemble. Despite the writer’s tribute to his enormous physical ‘upside’, Smith kills the team in its pursuit of the single most important goal (i.e., winning) with his equally enormous ‘downside’ from the shoulders up.
Should the Hawks consider trading Johnson, not Smith? Don’t know, but whatever the calculus is, it must also include a strong consideration of who will work best within the team concept. You seem to discount or disregard this minor consideration.
NC Braves Fan
May 12th, 2009
12:09 pm
About the Joe vs. Josh debate, and I’m just throwing this out there for discussion … what does it say about perceptions about Josh that only one team showed any serious interest in signing him last off-season when he was a RFA?
oldmike
May 12th, 2009
12:10 pm
well here’s a thought on JJ. look at his minutes during the season. coach rode him all year. 40+ minutes per game. ball in his hands. defend the #1 opponent scorer. he just may be exhausted. last year as well. before we ship him out of here i’d say shipping the coach out is the better option. get someone in here who can run a system that takes advantage of the length and athleticism of this squad. they are not bult for the “system” coach runs – whatever that is. i believe this team wins 50+ games witha new coach. Anyone agree?
Submariner683
May 12th, 2009
12:12 pm
It’s been a long, long road for the Hawks to get to where they are at now. A four seed in the Eastern conference. And like a four seed should, they lost to the one seed.
I can’t believe sports writers are writing and people are talking about breaking the team up already after one series. Do you remember how freaking pathetic this team has been for the last decade? They went to the playoffs for the first time in forever last year and took the eventual NBA champions to 7 games. They improved their record by 10 or 11 games and made it to the 2nd round this year. All progress, in my book.
The Hawks have shown how horrible they can draft over the last 25 years. The worst drafters in the NBA and might be the worst at the draft of all major sports in the United States. They got Joe Johnson to come here 4 years ago when we were completely horrible. Granted, the team payed a ludicrous price for him, plus two first round pics, a bit pricey for a free agent. I’m pretty sure Phoenix could not have resigned him for what Atlanta paid.
Atlanta has some good pieces. Although they should have much better pieces than they do if they just draft the right guy. Add Chris Paul and Brandon Roy to the starting line up along with Johnson, Smith and Horford and you have a team that would have won almost 60 games this year. Granted, if the Hawks took Paul instead of Marvin Williams, maybe they improve too much that year and don’t have a chance to pass up Brandon Roy for Sheldon Williams. I guess while I’m dreaming, why not have Pau Gasol at center, move Horford to PF, move Josh to the bench and have a line up of Gasol at center, Horford at PF, Brandon Roy at SF, Johnson at SG and Paul at PG. With Mike Bibby and Smith coming off the bench, that team could beat anybody in the league, anyday.
Better to dismantle the team and start over. What morons you guys are for thinking that. It’s not like the Hawks have been stuck at 47-52 wins for years and losing in the 2nd round every year like in the 80s. Add a couple of more pieces to this line up. What big time free agents are out there?
niremetal
May 12th, 2009
12:14 pm
I’m sorry, but what? Have you been watching the Hawks at ALL this year? JJ gets doubled or tripled on every single play while Josh is left open off the ball and is almost never doubled when he has the ball. JJ scores pretty much every single time that he doesn’t face a double team, but our offense is so transparent under Woody that teams know to double or triple team JJ as soon as he touches the ball.
Josh is basically left open (his man backs down at least 4 feet) whenever he’s more than 15 feet from the basket. When he’s within 15 feet, he rarely has more than a single defender guarding him until he makes his move to the basket. And there’s a reason for that – Josh is not nearly, not even remotely as dangerous as JJ on offense.
Also, don’t know if you notice, but the only players in the NBA who are asked to do more for their team than JJ are LeBron and Wade. JJ is asked to be our main scorer, our top perimeter defender (even with Marvin’s emergence as a solid defender, we STILL have JJ guard the opposing team’s best guard/wing every night), and one of our two primary ballhandlers/facilitators. You actually think we’d be closer to a title with, say, Amare and Josh than we would with Amare and JJ? Hell, even with Wade and Josh instead of Wade and JJ (keep in mind that JJ can play the 2 or the 3 effectively)?
It’s just amazing to read this from an Atlanta sportswriter. It honestly sounds like you never watched the team, but instead just looked at the box scores (and even then, only the playoff box scores) and came to your conclusions on that basis alone.
Ayanna
May 12th, 2009
12:15 pm
Oh, I get it. You want JJ to be a media attention grabbing, strutt around know it all, love the limelight ball hogger, who cries and whines to the refs. Sorry that’s not Joe’s style.
Dan
May 12th, 2009
12:15 pm
Trade Joe Johnson, huh? This is a classic example of someone who pays no attention to the Hawks (until the Lakers come to town or the team is in the playoffs) and then tries to make an assessment on what the team needs. Just stop it.
This sudden media trend that “Joe Johnson is not a leader” is not true. People who have actually paid attention to this team know that. Both Billy Knight and Rick Sund have commented (at season ticket holder functions) that Joe is someone the other players look up to.
Schultz, why don’t you join the rest of the d-bags that write for this paper and go back to talking about the Falcons draft everyday. You guys never pay any attention to this team. Stop trying to act like you have any idea where things should head.
Astro Joe
May 12th, 2009
12:17 pm
Seems like judging players based on their playoff performance is a fundamentally flawed idea. Kind of like evaluating college players based solely on their NCAA Tournament performance (see Goose Givens). No one wants to consider the fact that each of our very young front court players missed a lot of time during the season with various injuries. That stunted their development and left them with inconsistent offensive skills in the post season. All of the remaining teams have consistent front court scorers (who at a minimum complement their backcourt star). It makes little sense to break up a 23 year-old front court that likely missed 50 games during the season due to injuries. Add a veteran big (or 2) to the bench… someone who can play (as opposed to Lorenzen Wright and his popcorn antics). Antonio McDyess, Joe Smith, Rasho Nesterovic, Matt Barnes and Brandon Bass are available and experienced bench players who know their roles and will complement our current front court. Let’s see how well we can be defended in a playoffs if our youngsters are healthy and continue to develop their offensive skills. But the key is to stay in the playoffs. Don’t gut the roster trying to chase the pot of gold. Stay in the playoffs.
Hawk Eye
May 12th, 2009
12:17 pm
This seems to be more like an impulsive point of view. Joe Johnson is one of the key players of the Hawks…He is third in most minutes played during the regular season. The reason? Stupid coaching.Mike woodson hardly uses his bench players like Acie Law, Othello Hunter..If you dont have rotation, the players will not gain any confidence and eventually the pressure is on the tiring main lineup..Poor Joe..Give him a break..
Bottomline:
New coach (Avery Johnson or Flip Saunders)
Trade Bibby,Zaza and Marvin Williams ( I am still furious why no one notices how sloppy,funny and paraplegic he looks when he drives to the net..) for Rudy Gay and OJ Mayo
crs
May 12th, 2009
12:19 pm
Why did Joe underperform? Could it be he and the bulk of the starters played far too many minutes all year? Yah, I think it could. There is a reason that late in the year, three of the major cogs broke down physically. Woodson has failed to develop any of the young talent. Smith, Horford, Williams, Law, Jones are all severly underdeveloped at this stage. That lies with no one other than Woodson and the other coaches.
RealSquawk
May 12th, 2009
12:19 pm
Just throwing this out there Mike Woodson was here for the 13 win season. Joe was not. I would say we have significantly improved since Joe got here and the players grown. Not because of Mike Woodson.
You think about any top scorer and the iso and the post up aren’t the only plays run for them there are screens, backdoor cuts, etc., but Joe has been working with iso’s and the occasional post-up for awhile now and he is still a top scorer.
now joe did say he would like to see Mike return last year so who knows.
freshd
May 12th, 2009
12:19 pm
Mike Woodson needs to evaluate his coaching methods also. I learned more about the HAWKS, after listening to HUBIE BROWN on the telecast Saturday night, than I have learned from WOODY in 5 years. He should bring HUBIE in as a consultant to help on offense and defense, and get rid of all those old pistons sets he still uses.
Spud Webb
May 12th, 2009
12:20 pm
Gotta disagree with you on this Shultz. Let me think Joe vs Wade & Joe vs James. Correct me if I’m wrong but those are 2 of the best 3 players in the league? Oh and not just on offense, 2 of the BEST D players in the league? Yes Joe played poorly, no DOUBT, but c’mon those two make everyone they play look bad. See Ray Allen vs the cavs last year. Joe IS not a leader, never has and never will be, he didn’t ask to be or for that contract, that was what was given to him. I’m not taking anything away from Josh, but really, developmental players on the Heats frontline and a little bit better for the Cavs front line. Josh SHOULD be putting those numbers up. Josh is the future, no DOUBT. Bibby, goodbye, we need a real point guard, dish, penetrate play solid D & be the leader. Looks like Bibby can’t move at times or just doesnt want to. Marvin Williams, good lord, can you tell me if he works hard or not, being serious? I look at him and how talented he is and I wonder, does he work to get better? I mean Marvin, MAKE YOURSELF a better player. I would leave the rest, get a point guard, remove Marvin and oh, GET A COACH. Just my opinions, good season Hawks! Let’s build on it.
Ayanna
May 12th, 2009
12:21 pm
Thank you Dan and Niremetal. What you guys said I second that!
Astro Joe
May 12th, 2009
12:22 pm
Excellent, newkid.
AveryBrooks
May 12th, 2009
12:23 pm
The Hawks should bring in Hubie Brown and Mike Fratello as consultants. Also hire Steve Smith, Mike Glenn and Dominique Wilkins as assistant coaches. Finally, fire Mike Woodsen and hire Avery Johnson to coach the Hawks. All of these moves would make the Hawks a bona fide championship contender for years to come.
Josh
May 12th, 2009
12:23 pm
Marvin is the one that needs to go. The Marvin Williams project is over and it failed, way to go not drafting Chris Paul or Deron Williams we got Marvin. Trade Marvin, let Bibby go. Grab a PG that can actually do more then shoot the 3, we need a penetrator and one that can play D. Resign Flip, bring in an actual 7 footer and a new lineup of: New PG (Jarrett Jack), Joe, Josh, Horford, New Center
Somebody Got To Say It!!!!!!
May 12th, 2009
12:23 pm
Jeff
I see you are at again, so I had to come out of the closet and comment!
SURPRISE, I AGREE WITH YOU JEFF.
Your idea of trading Joe Johnson makes sense. But trading JJ and keeping the current coach would be a disaster. Why; because Woody whole offensive system is built around ISO Joe. His claim to coaching fame has been ISO Joe. That is all he knows. A new star player would expose Woody coaching weaknesses even more. Even Woody admits his obvious flaws: under-utilization of team talent and over-utilization of one star player in his no-movement offensive system. Woody may have played a role in the injury issue that plagued us in the playoffs because of his refusal to use his bench players more in the regular season. It finally caught-up with him as we had only a few able bodies left to finish the playoff.
I say to move Joe Johnson means to move him, Woody and Bibby and build around Josh and Al Horford with Flip as your main supporting cast.
crs
May 12th, 2009
12:28 pm
I hope Lawson from UNC drops to us. I love his ability to push the ball. A big needs to be addressed via free agency or a trade. The last thing this team needs is another big to develop.
The hawks need to go out and find someone to tutor Josh, Zaza, Al, and Soloman on some low post moves, our bigs are far too eager to settle for jumper they can’t shoot effectively.
Jeff Schultz
May 12th, 2009
12:28 pm
Hawks73: Thanks… I like Murray also. I also like Marvin, but not sure about team’s feelings on him. I guess we’ll find out soon since he’s unsigned.
MrFill: Sorry. Next time I’ll try to insert a flashing yellow light.
Brian: I’m not banging a “Get Rid Of Him!” drum. I’m saying it’s something the team needs to explore.
Ed: Did you ever Joe isn’t the first player to face a double team?
Ellis: Thanks. I’ll keep it quiet that we agreed.
Ayanna: Joe Johnson – Dominique Wilkins? Not a parallel. … I do agree with you that Al’s play tailed off of late, but I attribute that to his ankle. And I’m sure you noticed the difference with the team in the paint when he wasn’t in the lineup.
Cursive: You’re right, that’s worse. I thought he said “father.” Stepfather? Oy.
Ayanna
May 12th, 2009
12:29 pm
Get rid of Joe and the Hawks will no longer get anymore of my money. It’d would remind me too much of when they let Dominique go.
J
May 12th, 2009
12:30 pm
Schutlz, you show up for a few Playoff games, and think getting rid of joe is the answer? once again, bad reporting … this is what needs to happen:
Woody needs to stop playing joe so many minutes during the regular season, and we need to find a better bench than Mo Evans and Acie Law … resign West, Flip, Pachulia for sure
I mean, the guy was hurt, and not to downplay how poorly he performed, but that has a huge impact. Did you ever plays sports Schultz? guess not!
David Smith
May 12th, 2009
12:33 pm
The hawks disappointed me in this series but, joe’s lackluster play disappointed me the most. When joe first came here in 2005 i thought we had robbed phoenix blind (although diaw did have a decent first year there) because of his size and sweet stroke from outside. Four years later we are still being teased with a team that has improved record wise but, not fundamentally. Joe just doesn’t have an sense of urgency in his game and passed up shots he should have taken instead of other players. Josh may be a bit immature at times but, at least he showed a willingness to play hard on both ends of the floor. I would hate to see joe go (woody needs to go first) but, if we can get someone of equal value i say make the deal.
Ayanna
May 12th, 2009
12:33 pm
Jeff, Al’s ankle sure stayed hurt a long time. I just don’t buy it. I just really believe he was faking. Call that women’s intuition. I believe
Spud Webb
May 12th, 2009
12:34 pm
Flip was GREAT, Pachulia, West & Evans all played as hard as they could. LOVED it, loved seeing Solo play also. Whats the deal w/Acie? Is he a bust or what, someone let me know on that?
What was up with tito, doh, Al throwing up a few airballs last night? UGH, I didnt know what was going on!
J
May 12th, 2009
12:35 pm
we’ve waited this long for a playoff team, and now that we have the pieces getting put together, you write we should trade joe and possibly kill the momentum?
If anything, we should subtract the pieces that didn’t help us get there and build around what’s there … getting rid of Joe is not the answer, unless you’re making way for Lebron or Kobe … Joe is unselfish and does great in team play. It would be nice for him to get upset every now and then against the non-calls he gets but he’s a role model athlete for our children and somebody who works hard and does what he needs to do for the team
J. J.
May 12th, 2009
12:36 pm
IT’S THE COACH…AND JOE WAS NEVER A “GREAT”…WAKE UP…
JOSH SMITH IS THE STRONG ONE FOR THE TEAM; HE ALWAYS PLAYS WITH ZEAL AND TO WIN…
GET RID OF JOE AND MAKE JOSH THE “LEAD MAN”…
THE HAWKS WOULD EXCEL MORE WITH A NEW AND MODERN COACH…
WHE WILL YOU LEAN, HAWKS OWNERS?
RealSquawk
May 12th, 2009
12:36 pm
Hawk Eye I doubt the grizzlies we give up those two players.
And Marvin might look sloppy going to the basket, but at least he doesn’t loose the ball. At least he knows how to create contact.
As previously stated when Joe went down we went to MArvin and he picked up the slack. And you know what happened all the ball handling and stuff MArvin had to do caused him to cramp up. That’s not an oops on Marvin thats an oops on the coach and kudos to Joe JOhnson for being able to do it for a whole season.
I am not sure we should trade anyone. I mean Josh matches up well with KG. He just needs to develop his moves going to the right and his right hand, while also improving his moves going to the left since he only has one, while also improving his jump shot. and his dribbling and his IQ and his passion. Maybe we should trade him. Wait he is a native nevermind.
Josh I know you were talking about all the records we broke this year. None that will matter in the big scheme of things, but you did make the history books. YOu helped Cleveland become the first team to sweep the two first rounds and have every win be in double digits.
Congratulations for being on the wrong-side of history. Did Lebron sign your jersey or his. Is Delonte going to sign that poster for you?
freshd
May 12th, 2009
12:37 pm
If the HAWKS are gonna keep J-SMOOVE, then someone needs to teach him the fundamentals of dribbling the basketball, because he is horrible, and why don”t the point guard or “Captain JOE” take it from him. He was a joke last night when he brought the ball up and then turned it over at a critical time. Also hire CURLY NEAL as an assitant to work with JOSH.
Peter
May 12th, 2009
12:37 pm
Wow how many years are we rebuilding ? I would try to keep Joe Johnson and rework his contract………..that way we can free cap room. If he won’t do that trade him with Marvin.
We need a point, How many years have we said that ???????? Even more importantly a BIG…..not sure what to do with Bibby, but if you can keep him for $5 Million I would………defensively he stinks !
AC Law, and Speedy have to go…….Flip should stay along with Zaza,
We need a new offensive system…… perhaps a different Assistant coash to work on that ?
J. J.
May 12th, 2009
12:37 pm
LEARN OWNERS THAT YOU HAVE TO HAVE A BETTER COACH AND TRADE JOE…
Jeff Schultz
May 12th, 2009
12:38 pm
Ayanna: If it takes that kind of anger for Joe to score 40 points, maybe he should get angry all the time?
Bernie: Thanks for the journalist tag. It beats the hell out of creep or moron.
Scott: I’m not going to throw names out there because, no, I don’t know what they could get. But I know this: Joe has a lot of value to teams looking for a great second or third option on offense. He’s comfortable in that role, doesn’t cause problems and he has an expiring contract. So he has A LOT of value to other teams.
NC Braves: Don’t be fooled. Several teams are/were interested in Josh. But not many are going to go through the process of signing him to an offer sheet when the existing team (Hawks) publicly states it will match any offer. They don’t want to waste their time during the signing period.
EarlWoodsen
May 12th, 2009
12:38 pm
Trade Mike Bibby because Bibbs looks like he is over the hill. Bibby doesnt compete the way he used to when he was in Sacramento. Bibby is much older now and doesnt look much like a consistent player any more. Bibby no longer looks like he is hungry to win. Last night Bibby gets a handful of points, almost nothing in the first half, and was a non-factor. When Bibby played for the Sacramento Kings, Bibby had a bunch of playoff games of 30+ points. Im not pinning this loss on Mike Bibby but Bibby does not play consistently from half to half. In the Miami series, there was one game where Bibby scored 20 in the first half, but scored zero in the second half. You leave the game scratching your head thinking if this guy can score 20 in one half of basketball, why cant he even scratch for two points in the second half. If Bibbys play was consistent in both halves, the Hawks would be flying high. Dont even bring up Josh Smith and his shortcomings. Someone needs to tell Josh Smith that he is not a point guard. Smith continues to dribble the ball up the court and subsequently turn the ball over repeatedly. That has become his trademark and his m.o. Thats all he does these days. The ball is inbounded to Josh Smith, Smith dribbles the ball upcourt as if he is Walt “Clyde” Frazier and then simple kicks the ball out-of-bounds, fumbles the ball until someone takes it from him, or gives it back by turning it over. Josh should also work on his jumpshooting in the offseason. Josh should go to the gym every day and shoot at least 400 jumpers every day. If he does this consistently, Josh has a chance to become an elite player (like a Kobe, Labron, D-Wade or Joe Johnson).
Spud Webb
May 12th, 2009
12:40 pm
Said it before & I’ll say it again, Joe vs Lebron and Wade. Cmon, what did you want the guy to do? Score 30 a game? Isn’t going to happen vs them, they are in another league and unless your name is Koby, you’ve got no shot. Josh did what he was supposed to, dominate lesser players. Great job on Josh’s part.
injuries
May 12th, 2009
12:41 pm
wasn’t joe playing on a badly sprained ankle?
AT
May 12th, 2009
12:42 pm
Yeah J.J., keep fooling yourself, it’s the coach! Josh always plays with a zeal to win!?!? Are you freaking kidding me? When he is interested yes, he plays hard, when he is not, well, he’s nowhere to be seen. The guys is arguably the most uncoachable “star” in the NBA, he doesn’t listen to anyone, not even the 18,000 fans screaming at him not to throw up another ugly brick. Never seen such a clueless player. For someone who’s been in the league as long as him, it’s sad he still can’t figure out what his strengths and weaknesses are.
mj23
May 12th, 2009
12:43 pm
Sounds to me like Steve Belkin had a valid argument back in the summer of 2005. Hawks gave up too much to acquire a good (not great) player. Joe was outstanding with the Suns because Steve Nash was the point guard, and he was the 3rd option there. He got a lot of open looks. This is one of many screw ups by Billy Knight. He drafted Childress over Iguodala, Marvin over CP3, and Shelden over Brandon Roy. Hawks line up could’ve been CP3, Roy, Iguodala, Jsmoove, and Horford. We would’ve been one of the elite teams in the NBA. Hawks sucked for 10 years, and this is what we get in return?
Scott
May 12th, 2009
12:43 pm
All the Joe defenders bringing up that he was double teamed are proving the point to trade him. Your superstar and number one option should not be able to be shut down that easily. The way he handled (or didn’t) the double teams is the issue. Joe never adjusted, never got the ball moving before the double team collapsed on him, never found the open man created by the double team. I watched him react the same way for 11 games, by dribbling back out until he could get it to someone 5 feet behind the 3 line.
Speaking of coaching, would someone please explain the Hawks offense? Bibby brings it up, who gives it to Josh, Al, ZaZa behind the 3 point line who then give it to Joe, who tries to break down the defense and then throws it back out with 5 sec on the shot clock. Why are my bigs handling the ball behind the 3-point line? Do I want to run the offense through them that far out? Why are they so far away from the paint?
J
May 12th, 2009
12:44 pm
wow, i just some above comments, and glad i’m not the only one who’s been attending the games and know what Joe does for this team … i’ll keep blogging about this bad reporting … this is downright awful that this gets printed in the paper. Yeah, negative stuff sells but so do facts. You can’t just start following a team and think you know everything, and then write about it, and then have people who don’t necessarily watch the Hawks but who are coming onboard read this crap and take it for the truth … oh wait, i guess you can … ugh, this is so horrible … our city deserves better sports writers who actually care about the teams, and watch them instead of this garbage that’s being released. I’ll have to revert abck to reading Sekou’s Blogs I guess. It just irked me the wrong way to see these headlines and then actually read something that’s not even fairly justified.
Jeff Schultz
May 12th, 2009
12:45 pm
CRS: You make a good point about minutes and fatigue.
Avery Brooks: For what it’s worth, I think Steve Smith would be a great guy in the front office. So would other teams.
Somebody Had to Say It: You agree with me? There’s hope for world peace yet! I like Josh, Al and Flip as starting points for any team.
CRS: I’d take Lawson. But how about Jarret Jack?
J: You’re right. I’ve actually never even watched a basketball game live until just the other night. … And does hopscotch count as a sport because, like, yeah, I played that. Wasn’t very good though.
Ayanna: Al Horford faking? Really?
The double team
May 12th, 2009
12:46 pm
In order to properly respond to the double team you have to have movement. If your teammates don’t move then the double team is effective. When we did double Lebron he knew where his teammates were going to be. Not because he is Lebron, but probably because they have their spots they know where to go
Ayanna
May 12th, 2009
12:47 pm
Joe sure was playing on a badly sprained ankle. And scored 20 or more points. I saw him limping on Saturday too. He’s my warrior of the series. I wonder if Rick Kamla would agree.
Jeff Schultz
May 12th, 2009
12:50 pm
Earl: Bibby won’t be traded. He’s a free agent. He’ll either be re-signed or not.
MJ23: Surprised it took this long for the first Steve Belkin reference. Not sure but I think you means you’re off the Christmas card list of every other Atlanta Spirit owner.
J
May 12th, 2009
12:50 pm
mj23 – no, the line-up wouldn’t have looked like that … those draft picks came b/c of poor play by the Hawks, and you should slap yourself for even saying something that retarded … had the Hawks drafted Chris Paul, we wouldn’t have seen Horford or any of those other players. Also, back in 2005, the talk was about Marvin, not Chris Paul, so it’s easy to say that after the fact. The only thing i will agree with was the Sheldon pick … that one could have gone better, even though BK was trying to get a big man.
Green Tea
May 12th, 2009
12:50 pm
No Schultz, you don’t trade Joe, you just bring in a #1 guy. Case in point Boston in KG. It is time for Atlanta to get that top tier guy like ‘Nique was. Joe can be the Scotty Pippen to ______ Michael Jordan.
Dan
May 12th, 2009
12:51 pm
Hey, Scott…you know what all of us “Joe defenders” have in common? We actually watch this team play their games. So….
Nice how you throw in the ol’ “what’s our plan on offense” line. Try getting your ideas from someplace other than 790 The Zone. Original thought can be a good thing…
Ayanna
May 12th, 2009
12:52 pm
Scott, a lot of the times when JJ was doubled the Hawks were slow to come over to help him get it out. They don’t call it a team for nothing.
J
May 12th, 2009
12:53 pm
Hopscotch … i could see you getting into that, and actually giving us some real good reporting then … seriously though, why write about trading Joe? If you know better, you know the facts on why Joe was dead come playoffs, just like last year … Woody rode his butt all the way to the playoffs … unless you were just trying to get people like me upset about writing the article in the first place, then you did your job
mark
May 12th, 2009
12:55 pm
trading joe would be a big mistake, we need new leadership with this team, mw has reached his peak with this team,he didnt the best he could do, they need to hear a new message. keep flip. if necesary let bibby go.resign or snt marvin. up grade our coaching staff, and explore free agentency. we are stiil relatively young. and believe with a little tweaking and a good coach we still be in the house. i am proud of where this team has come from in five years. i m proud of the progress we’ve made this year. looking forward to the future
BugKiller
May 12th, 2009
12:56 pm
Did some idiot on here claim that Al Horford was FAKING his injury???
What the unholy hell is wrong with some of stupid people?
Are you the same people who believed Soviet Premier Obama was responsible for gas prices going down, giving him credit, and now have absolutely nothing to say (and no one to blame) now that prices are going up, and will hit $4.00 this summer again?
Are you the same stupid, gullible people who elected the single-least experienced candidate ever for President based upon two inane buzzwords that have no meaning whatsoever?
I think so.
I really do.
Because anyone claiming Al Horford, the ONLY man on the Hawks roster who’s actually taking this loss hard, the single-most competative athlete in Atlanta not named Matt Ryan, is an utter fool.
A damned fool.
A maroon, as Bugs Bunny would say.
Wow… and I think I’d heard everything.
E
May 12th, 2009
12:56 pm
The Hawks in no way will entertain the thought of trading Joe Johnson. Sorry Jeff, good way to get people to read your column, but its unrealistic, with the money they will have to build the team this off-season. The Hawks will be $20 million under the salary cap, when Mike Bibby and Za-Za’s contracts come off the books. They will probably offer Speedy Claxton a buyout or trade his expiring $5 million contract to a team trying to get under the cap for the 2010 free agency sweepstakes. The Hawks will be in great position to go after restricted and unrestricted free agents. I wouldn’t offer M.Bibby a contract, even at a reduced price. He’s 32 and a liability on defense. I would go after one of the young point guards who will be restricted free agents, like Raymond Felton or Jarrett Jack.
Marvin Williams will be a restricted free agent, I would offer him a contract in about the $ 7-8 million range, it won’t be many teams trying to steal him away this off-season. Lastly, I would go after a young true Center, that can rebound and play defense. Like a Chris Andersen from Denver or a power forward like Paul Millsap from Utah who will be a restricted free agents. I would only keep Za Za at a reduced price as a back up Center. But what do I know, I’m no GM……..
J
May 12th, 2009
12:59 pm
I’ve been a season ticket holder since 0506 when we got Joe (they had some great specials then like they do now) and I’ve been watching him every step of the way … you can’t trade this guy, nor Josh Smith (thankfully signed), nor horford, west, pachulia, or west … if anything, it’s the coach … Bradley had the best quote I’ve seen when he mentioned what Bibby said back to Woody one night after Josh was wide open for a three and missed again … if you didn’t read it, i’m sure it’s archived somewhere but it flat out shows that we need a better coach and validates what so many of us are saying about how this team could be more effective given the right coaching …
Ayanna
May 12th, 2009
12:59 pm
I did.LOL Al Horford was f-a-k-i-n-g that injury or at least milking it as far as it could go. Al Horford is not the leader of the Hawks team. Some other idiot stated that he was the leader of the Hawks team. I’m still laughing at that! HAHAHAHAHA!
Ayanna
May 12th, 2009
1:02 pm
Al Horford was scared to play Ilguaskas and Jermaine Oneal. That’s where Zaza came in. We don’t call him Rocky Balboa for nothing. Zaza is my warrior for the first round.
BugKiller
May 12th, 2009
1:03 pm
Wow, Jeff… please set this person straight.
Anyone who even thinks Al Horford was or ever has faked an injury is the same kind of “needs psychiatric help” people as all those “Free Mike Vick” morons.
Seriously, Ayanna… you really believe that “Gets out of the way” Joe Johnson (as in lead, follow, or get out of the way) is even half the kind of leader that Horford is.
Look again, how this team fell apart with your boy Joe healthy, and Horford hurt.
Please, Jeff, tell this woman how insane she is, and the offer her your shrink’s number so she can get some help.
Someone this unbalanced shouldn’t be in the general population.
mj23
May 12th, 2009
1:04 pm
J: I would trade Horford and Marvin for CP3. He is that good, and what about passing on Iguodala for Childress? I was soo made when they drafted Childress. I never like those Stanford guys like Adam Keefe.
Scott
May 12th, 2009
1:06 pm
Dan… I can’t stand 790 either, but got the “What’s our plan on offense” line sitting in 316. Thanks for bringing nothing to the table. I was expecting something like, “In watching them play the games, it creates a mis-match that Joe can then exploit”, or “It opens up Al’s jumper from the free throw line”. But hey, what you said is good too…
Ayanna… Valid point about teammates helping out. This is one case where I think the teams injury situation effected them. Bench guys moving back and forth in the lineup can’t help the offensive flow. But the team did bail him out in 3 of those wins in the Mia series.
DMC
May 12th, 2009
1:07 pm
Hey Jeff. How about Josh (and change – mayby rights to Chilldress) to TOR for Bosh? I’d have to think they’d grab that deal since Bosh is out the door at the end of the season whereas they’d have Smith locked up for 3 more. Hawks get a BIG upgrade at the 4, then use the cash they save (that has to be reserved for Chills and for dumping Speedy) to find a real PG solution. Massage the depth on the bench and they are a much more competitive team next year.
J
May 12th, 2009
1:10 pm
I would trade now for Chris Paul, but back then, nobody was talking about Chris Paul … that’s why i said it’s easy to say that now … plus, you know if we did get CP3 then, we would not be in the position we are now … Iguodala just started blossoming too, so it’s pretty much the same sceneario … the only bust was Sheldon, and we were all dumbfounded when that pick happened, especially when we needed a point guard at the time … you always about other teams when we beat them, it’s b/c of our long/atheltic guys … you can thank BK for that, even though i disliked the guy b/c he never talked to the media (which is why the media bad-mouthed him all the time)
JD
May 12th, 2009
1:12 pm
J – Joe sure was dead come playoff time. Look at the last few games that he actually played in. 24, 30, 25, 21 points. One more game isn’t going to cause a gigantic drop in performance.
And JS is just throwing out some opinions and viewpoints for what could happen this offseason. What would make it good “reporting”? If he just repeated “Whoo! Go Hawks!”
Coach Carter
May 12th, 2009
1:12 pm
Lets not be hasty here…we need a point guard that can push the ball up court(ben gordan),play defense(ben gordan)is a free agent this year!,then go get a big man in the draft by trading future drafts to move up to get someone like the big kid from connecticut.keep all our pieces in check minus bibby.im even good going after a top notch coach who maybe available.