Hawks should consider trading Johnson, not Smith

You through me here Schultzy. I am reading what seems to be a very ingaging argument to keep Josh Smith and then suddenly I am in Ethiopia with Evander Holyfield and wondering about an inmates eligibility. Then I realized this was one of your five-things list. Might want to mention that up front before you get sued for causing whiplash with the sudden turns.

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True, JJ underperformed for most of this postseason, but I don’t think he was nearly dismal enough to merit these “get rid of Joe” discussions. Let’s not forget, he was pretty-consistently double-teamed in every game with both Miami and Cleveland, and that’s sure to hamper anyone’s success. The other thing to consider is that, as illustrated by the Cleveland “haves” and the Miami “have-nots,” it’s crucial that the supporting cast shows up to play on a consistent level. This means having the niche players successfully execute their roles (memo to Josh: please either spend every other day of the summer working on your jumper, or be happy with driving to the basket).

Let’s face it: injuries were a HUGE part of why the Hawks couldn’t seal the deal against the Cavs. Even though they were on the floor, JJ, Marvin, and Al are only human. I’m not trying to make excuses (and, thankfully, neither are the Hawks), but it’s easy to cheer for a guy who gets injured and then MAKES his foul shots.

To me, the only significant thing that could have been realistically improved prior to the playoffs (besides keeping everyone healthy) was figuring out how to use Mike Bibby on defense. Even with last night’s poor showing, I wouldn’t want to trade his offensive production in ANY case; the Hawks just need to figure out how to realistically make use of a guy who, to be honest, isn’t the best defender (and CERTAINLY not when he’s stuck against Lebron).

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Jeff, I normally disagree with you. But you hit the nail on the head with your assessment of with what the Hawks should do with Joe Johnson.

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Unless your going to trade JJ for LeBron, Kobe, or DWade, you don’t do it. You think this offense stinks? Take Joe out of it and you’ve got a disaster.

I honestly believe we’re one player away from being able to compete with the elites. We either have to get a legit center or legit point guard.

As is, this team is way too easy to defend. Once the double team forces Joe to give it up, we don’t have the players to take advantage of it. Some of that falls on the coach, but certainly not all – we are glaringly lacking in talent at the 1 and the 5. Al, Josh, & Joe are the core of this team – the rest are all fair-to-middling and can stay or go.

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Trade Joe and see a huge part of the Hawks fan base walk just like when they got rid of Dominique. I honestly think they should keep all five starters and maybe tweak the bench. Which I don’t know what the bench is capable of because they hardly played.

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The Spurs…. The Spurs are one team who would take a serious look at Joe Johnson in a trade, with Manu on the decline. Don’t know what they would/could give in return, but at the least, it would be a nice thank you to Joe for all of his hard work in Atlanta and he would be a perfect fit for their system as a complimentary player. Go tell Sund…

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It’s interesting you list Horford ahead of Josh. Big Al also had a mediocre post-season. I’m not advocating trading Big Al or anyone. This team is still a work in progress. Stay with the plan. Tweak the lineup not overhaul it.

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Yes, please subject us to another few years of Josh Smith’s throwing the ball out of bounds, chucking random 22-footers and generally looking clueless. That is something you can build around.

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The funniest (and saddest) thing about Clemens was that he didn’t even say that his father had a heart attack, he said step-father. I heard him on Mike & Mike this morning and he made it sound like his bloodline had a genetic disposition toward heart disease, then he name dropped his step-father… Ha ha ha.

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Ayanna… I’m sorry, but you’re basketball ignorant.

This postseason proved without a shadow of a doubt that Al Horford is the most INDISPENSABLE player on the Hawks’ roster.

Every game he missed due to injury, they lost.

Joe Johnson is a joke. He’s the worst “leader” I think I’ve ever seen.

He doesn’t lead by example, as his crappy performance in the playoffs have proven.

He doesn’t lead by words, unlike a non-playing Kevin Garnett is doing with the Celtics from the bench in a suit.

He couldn’t inspire a thirsty man to drink water, let alone this basketball team. He is by far the least inspirational “leader” I think I’ve ever seen on a basketball team.

He’s a bit player with good skills. He is not the guy who gets his team fired up. He’s not the guy who leads.

Joe Johnson is the guy who follows.

AL HORFORD is the guy who LEADS.

This postseason cemented that fact.

Jeff, who’d a thunk, that when all is said and done about Joe Johnson, that Steve Belkan was right all along.

Then again, we should have known about Joe Johnson. I mean, Billy Knight wanted him so bad he WAY overpaid for him, kinda like he did with Marvin, Sheldon, Speedy, and every other draft pick / free agent not named Smith or Horford.

Looks like this team is STILL cleaning up after Knight’s messes.

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This team was an improvement. It had gone from the very worst to respectible. So what if Cleveland blew them out, they will and have blown out a lot of teams. No one has agreed with anything the Hawks have done like they were the Braves during the 70s or something. No change of course is needed yet, they are owed some respect or the paid experts are losing some of mine by not knowing what they are talking about or knowing and not caring enough to make it right.

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I have to seriously, seriously question the intelligence of anyone who implies we keep Josh over Joe. Seriously. Wow.

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Joe is too good a player to let go. Is he a superstar that can beat double-teams? No, but only a few guys in the league are. We need to find another player comparable to Joe to put with him, Josh, Horford, Marvin, Flip. Bibby should definitely not be re-signed. We need to finally give Acie Laws a chance, but bring in a decent veteran PG also. We need another scorer to go along with Joe!

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Finally, a sports journalist using his own ability to analyze what’s really wrong with this team, rather than the follow the crowd mentality of the so called experts, yelling trade Josh. Sure, Josh may miss a lot of jump shots and take some ill advised shots at times, but what is he supposed to do when Joe dribbles the shot clock down to 3 seconds on almost every possession then passes the ball(Woody’s offense – send him out of town with Joe). With Josh, you never have to wonder whether he’s here to play. He’s always passionate with his play and he’s willing to put himself on the line for the team, like he did with the hard fouls on people driving to the lane to let them know the Hawks are not pushovers. Contrast that with Joe’s passion and effort or lack thereof. Jump shots can be developed and learned, HEART AND PASSION can not. Nique couldn’t shoot the jumper when he came into the league either, but the passion to go toe-to-toe with the likes of Larry Bird, Michael Jordan and the Pistons Bad Boys is why he in the Hall of Fame, along with his ability to score (which Josh can do). Fancy dribbling by Joe leads to crap, people who say otherwise, don’t know the GAME!

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I haven’t seen Horford lead squat. Give me an example. Horford is the scariest big man I have ever seen. Every time the team is challenged he tries to say that he’s hurt. Horford is not a leader. If he was then the question of who is the leader on the team would not have come up.

Ain’t nothing Boss about Horford. Horford didn’t even score any points last night. After I got home from the game I saw the stats. Check your stats.

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Jeff I would not trade Joe. The TNT crew talked about this exact same thing, whether they build around Joe Johnson or Josh Smith. They didn’t give a clear answer, but the general consensus was Joe. One of the reasons why is that they would never get back enough in return. Joe Johnson is the third best shooting guard in the league. And I personally think that Josh Smith is our most trade able asset and here is why

He is viewed as having the most upside around the league ( I am guessing) so he would get the greatest return. We could get a veteran on an expiring contract and draft picks probably not lottery protected. Now we got a veteran whose contract expires in 2010 and Joe’s who contract expires in 2010 we got Al Horford and Acie Law still on their rookie contract and Marvin on hopefully a reasonable deal. We have cap space to sign another big named free agent a center most likely and Joe Johnson. You can’t beat that. It’s a risk, but its possible.

If you trade Joe on the other hand what are you going to get from a team a few pieces away. Draft picks will be worthless and players of lesser value.

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JEFF-

the problem isn’t that you argue that Joe should be traded, but that you never propose what we should reasonably expect in return. if we’re going to trade (arguably) our best player, then we need to get fair market value in return. i understand Joe can be valuable for another team, but what player will be valuable for us going forward who we can get in return?

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The HAWKS need to drop BIBBY and MARVIN “always hurt” WILLIAMS. To trade JOE would validate STEVE BELKIN claim about JOE. I do think they overpaid for JOE, but they need get some veteran big men with size, who can bang on the inside. The HAWKS big men are soft and undersized. Lebroun was thicker than any of the HAWKS big men. MIKE BIBBY is still a good outside shooter, but he is a “MATADOR” on defense.

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Bernie Matt. Josh does not always play with passion. most of the time he plays as if some little kid stole his lunch money.

And then there is a difference between playing with passion and yelling at the referees every chance you get. Just because Joe doesn’t yell after every made shot or dunk, does not mean he isn’t passionate. He is passionate, but he has bigger goals.

Just look at the post game comments. Joe: this will leave a sour taste in our mouths. Josh: I am not going to let this SWEEP get me down.

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About Smith you said: “But he remains by far the most talented player on the roster with the most upside.” Well if basketball were golf or tennis, then perhaps you’d have a solid argument. But then if I were Bill Gates or Warren Buffet, I’d be financially comfortable. Basketball is a team sport best played when individuals synchronize their on court activities in pursuit of a common goal, regardless of differences in levels of physical talent (reference: Cleveland Cavaliers). A significant, but less often considered, team attribute is the display of basketball intelligence by the on floor ensemble. Despite the writer’s tribute to his enormous physical ‘upside’, Smith kills the team in its pursuit of the single most important goal (i.e., winning) with his equally enormous ‘downside’ from the shoulders up.

Should the Hawks consider trading Johnson, not Smith? Don’t know, but whatever the calculus is, it must also include a strong consideration of who will work best within the team concept. You seem to discount or disregard this minor consideration.

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well here’s a thought on JJ. look at his minutes during the season. coach rode him all year. 40+ minutes per game. ball in his hands. defend the #1 opponent scorer. he just may be exhausted. last year as well. before we ship him out of here i’d say shipping the coach out is the better option. get someone in here who can run a system that takes advantage of the length and athleticism of this squad. they are not bult for the “system” coach runs – whatever that is. i believe this team wins 50+ games witha new coach. Anyone agree?

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I’m sorry, but what? Have you been watching the Hawks at ALL this year? JJ gets doubled or tripled on every single play while Josh is left open off the ball and is almost never doubled when he has the ball. JJ scores pretty much every single time that he doesn’t face a double team, but our offense is so transparent under Woody that teams know to double or triple team JJ as soon as he touches the ball.

Josh is basically left open (his man backs down at least 4 feet) whenever he’s more than 15 feet from the basket. When he’s within 15 feet, he rarely has more than a single defender guarding him until he makes his move to the basket. And there’s a reason for that – Josh is not nearly, not even remotely as dangerous as JJ on offense.

Also, don’t know if you notice, but the only players in the NBA who are asked to do more for their team than JJ are LeBron and Wade. JJ is asked to be our main scorer, our top perimeter defender (even with Marvin’s emergence as a solid defender, we STILL have JJ guard the opposing team’s best guard/wing every night), and one of our two primary ballhandlers/facilitators. You actually think we’d be closer to a title with, say, Amare and Josh than we would with Amare and JJ? Hell, even with Wade and Josh instead of Wade and JJ (keep in mind that JJ can play the 2 or the 3 effectively)?

It’s just amazing to read this from an Atlanta sportswriter. It honestly sounds like you never watched the team, but instead just looked at the box scores (and even then, only the playoff box scores) and came to your conclusions on that basis alone.

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Trade Joe Johnson, huh? This is a classic example of someone who pays no attention to the Hawks (until the Lakers come to town or the team is in the playoffs) and then tries to make an assessment on what the team needs. Just stop it.

This sudden media trend that “Joe Johnson is not a leader” is not true. People who have actually paid attention to this team know that. Both Billy Knight and Rick Sund have commented (at season ticket holder functions) that Joe is someone the other players look up to.

Schultz, why don’t you join the rest of the d-bags that write for this paper and go back to talking about the Falcons draft everyday. You guys never pay any attention to this team. Stop trying to act like you have any idea where things should head.

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This seems to be more like an impulsive point of view. Joe Johnson is one of the key players of the Hawks…He is third in most minutes played during the regular season. The reason? Stupid coaching.Mike woodson hardly uses his bench players like Acie Law, Othello Hunter..If you dont have rotation, the players will not gain any confidence and eventually the pressure is on the tiring main lineup..Poor Joe..Give him a break..
Bottomline:
New coach (Avery Johnson or Flip Saunders)
Trade Bibby,Zaza and Marvin Williams ( I am still furious why no one notices how sloppy,funny and paraplegic he looks when he drives to the net..) for Rudy Gay and OJ Mayo

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Just throwing this out there Mike Woodson was here for the 13 win season. Joe was not. I would say we have significantly improved since Joe got here and the players grown. Not because of Mike Woodson.

You think about any top scorer and the iso and the post up aren’t the only plays run for them there are screens, backdoor cuts, etc., but Joe has been working with iso’s and the occasional post-up for awhile now and he is still a top scorer.

now joe did say he would like to see Mike return last year so who knows.

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Gotta disagree with you on this Shultz. Let me think Joe vs Wade & Joe vs James. Correct me if I’m wrong but those are 2 of the best 3 players in the league? Oh and not just on offense, 2 of the BEST D players in the league? Yes Joe played poorly, no DOUBT, but c’mon those two make everyone they play look bad. See Ray Allen vs the cavs last year. Joe IS not a leader, never has and never will be, he didn’t ask to be or for that contract, that was what was given to him. I’m not taking anything away from Josh, but really, developmental players on the Heats frontline and a little bit better for the Cavs front line. Josh SHOULD be putting those numbers up. Josh is the future, no DOUBT. Bibby, goodbye, we need a real point guard, dish, penetrate play solid D & be the leader. Looks like Bibby can’t move at times or just doesnt want to. Marvin Williams, good lord, can you tell me if he works hard or not, being serious? I look at him and how talented he is and I wonder, does he work to get better? I mean Marvin, MAKE YOURSELF a better player. I would leave the rest, get a point guard, remove Marvin and oh, GET A COACH. Just my opinions, good season Hawks! Let’s build on it.

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Excellent, newkid.

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Marvin is the one that needs to go. The Marvin Williams project is over and it failed, way to go not drafting Chris Paul or Deron Williams we got Marvin. Trade Marvin, let Bibby go. Grab a PG that can actually do more then shoot the 3, we need a penetrator and one that can play D. Resign Flip, bring in an actual 7 footer and a new lineup of: New PG (Jarrett Jack), Joe, Josh, Horford, New Center

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I hope Lawson from UNC drops to us. I love his ability to push the ball. A big needs to be addressed via free agency or a trade. The last thing this team needs is another big to develop.

The hawks need to go out and find someone to tutor Josh, Zaza, Al, and Soloman on some low post moves, our bigs are far too eager to settle for jumper they can’t shoot effectively.

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Get rid of Joe and the Hawks will no longer get anymore of my money. It’d would remind me too much of when they let Dominique go.

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The hawks disappointed me in this series but, joe’s lackluster play disappointed me the most. When joe first came here in 2005 i thought we had robbed phoenix blind (although diaw did have a decent first year there) because of his size and sweet stroke from outside. Four years later we are still being teased with a team that has improved record wise but, not fundamentally. Joe just doesn’t have an sense of urgency in his game and passed up shots he should have taken instead of other players. Josh may be a bit immature at times but, at least he showed a willingness to play hard on both ends of the floor. I would hate to see joe go (woody needs to go first) but, if we can get someone of equal value i say make the deal.

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Flip was GREAT, Pachulia, West & Evans all played as hard as they could. LOVED it, loved seeing Solo play also. Whats the deal w/Acie? Is he a bust or what, someone let me know on that?
What was up with tito, doh, Al throwing up a few airballs last night? UGH, I didnt know what was going on!

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IT’S THE COACH…AND JOE WAS NEVER A “GREAT”…WAKE UP…
JOSH SMITH IS THE STRONG ONE FOR THE TEAM; HE ALWAYS PLAYS WITH ZEAL AND TO WIN…
GET RID OF JOE AND MAKE JOSH THE “LEAD MAN”…
THE HAWKS WOULD EXCEL MORE WITH A NEW AND MODERN COACH…
WHE WILL YOU LEAN, HAWKS OWNERS?

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If the HAWKS are gonna keep J-SMOOVE, then someone needs to teach him the fundamentals of dribbling the basketball, because he is horrible, and why don”t the point guard or “Captain JOE” take it from him. He was a joke last night when he brought the ball up and then turned it over at a critical time. Also hire CURLY NEAL as an assitant to work with JOSH.

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LEARN OWNERS THAT YOU HAVE TO HAVE A BETTER COACH AND TRADE JOE…

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Trade Mike Bibby because Bibbs looks like he is over the hill. Bibby doesnt compete the way he used to when he was in Sacramento. Bibby is much older now and doesnt look much like a consistent player any more. Bibby no longer looks like he is hungry to win. Last night Bibby gets a handful of points, almost nothing in the first half, and was a non-factor. When Bibby played for the Sacramento Kings, Bibby had a bunch of playoff games of 30+ points. Im not pinning this loss on Mike Bibby but Bibby does not play consistently from half to half. In the Miami series, there was one game where Bibby scored 20 in the first half, but scored zero in the second half. You leave the game scratching your head thinking if this guy can score 20 in one half of basketball, why cant he even scratch for two points in the second half. If Bibbys play was consistent in both halves, the Hawks would be flying high. Dont even bring up Josh Smith and his shortcomings. Someone needs to tell Josh Smith that he is not a point guard. Smith continues to dribble the ball up the court and subsequently turn the ball over repeatedly. That has become his trademark and his m.o. Thats all he does these days. The ball is inbounded to Josh Smith, Smith dribbles the ball upcourt as if he is Walt “Clyde” Frazier and then simple kicks the ball out-of-bounds, fumbles the ball until someone takes it from him, or gives it back by turning it over. Josh should also work on his jumpshooting in the offseason. Josh should go to the gym every day and shoot at least 400 jumpers every day. If he does this consistently, Josh has a chance to become an elite player (like a Kobe, Labron, D-Wade or Joe Johnson).

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wasn’t joe playing on a badly sprained ankle?

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Sounds to me like Steve Belkin had a valid argument back in the summer of 2005. Hawks gave up too much to acquire a good (not great) player. Joe was outstanding with the Suns because Steve Nash was the point guard, and he was the 3rd option there. He got a lot of open looks. This is one of many screw ups by Billy Knight. He drafted Childress over Iguodala, Marvin over CP3, and Shelden over Brandon Roy. Hawks line up could’ve been CP3, Roy, Iguodala, Jsmoove, and Horford. We would’ve been one of the elite teams in the NBA. Hawks sucked for 10 years, and this is what we get in return?

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wow, i just some above comments, and glad i’m not the only one who’s been attending the games and know what Joe does for this team … i’ll keep blogging about this bad reporting … this is downright awful that this gets printed in the paper. Yeah, negative stuff sells but so do facts. You can’t just start following a team and think you know everything, and then write about it, and then have people who don’t necessarily watch the Hawks but who are coming onboard read this crap and take it for the truth … oh wait, i guess you can … ugh, this is so horrible … our city deserves better sports writers who actually care about the teams, and watch them instead of this garbage that’s being released. I’ll have to revert abck to reading Sekou’s Blogs I guess. It just irked me the wrong way to see these headlines and then actually read something that’s not even fairly justified.

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In order to properly respond to the double team you have to have movement. If your teammates don’t move then the double team is effective. When we did double Lebron he knew where his teammates were going to be. Not because he is Lebron, but probably because they have their spots they know where to go

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No Schultz, you don’t trade Joe, you just bring in a #1 guy. Case in point Boston in KG. It is time for Atlanta to get that top tier guy like ‘Nique was. Joe can be the Scotty Pippen to ______ Michael Jordan.

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Scott, a lot of the times when JJ was doubled the Hawks were slow to come over to help him get it out. They don’t call it a team for nothing.

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trading joe would be a big mistake, we need new leadership with this team, mw has reached his peak with this team,he didnt the best he could do, they need to hear a new message. keep flip. if necesary let bibby go.resign or snt marvin. up grade our coaching staff, and explore free agentency. we are stiil relatively young. and believe with a little tweaking and a good coach we still be in the house. i am proud of where this team has come from in five years. i m proud of the progress we’ve made this year. looking forward to the future

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The Hawks in no way will entertain the thought of trading Joe Johnson. Sorry Jeff, good way to get people to read your column, but its unrealistic, with the money they will have to build the team this off-season. The Hawks will be $20 million under the salary cap, when Mike Bibby and Za-Za’s contracts come off the books. They will probably offer Speedy Claxton a buyout or trade his expiring $5 million contract to a team trying to get under the cap for the 2010 free agency sweepstakes. The Hawks will be in great position to go after restricted and unrestricted free agents. I wouldn’t offer M.Bibby a contract, even at a reduced price. He’s 32 and a liability on defense. I would go after one of the young point guards who will be restricted free agents, like Raymond Felton or Jarrett Jack.
Marvin Williams will be a restricted free agent, I would offer him a contract in about the $ 7-8 million range, it won’t be many teams trying to steal him away this off-season. Lastly, I would go after a young true Center, that can rebound and play defense. Like a Chris Andersen from Denver or a power forward like Paul Millsap from Utah who will be a restricted free agents. I would only keep Za Za at a reduced price as a back up Center. But what do I know, I’m no GM……..

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I did.LOL Al Horford was f-a-k-i-n-g that injury or at least milking it as far as it could go. Al Horford is not the leader of the Hawks team. Some other idiot stated that he was the leader of the Hawks team. I’m still laughing at that! HAHAHAHAHA!

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Wow, Jeff… please set this person straight.

Anyone who even thinks Al Horford was or ever has faked an injury is the same kind of “needs psychiatric help” people as all those “Free Mike Vick” morons.

Seriously, Ayanna… you really believe that “Gets out of the way” Joe Johnson (as in lead, follow, or get out of the way) is even half the kind of leader that Horford is.

Look again, how this team fell apart with your boy Joe healthy, and Horford hurt.

Please, Jeff, tell this woman how insane she is, and the offer her your shrink’s number so she can get some help.

Someone this unbalanced shouldn’t be in the general population.

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Dan… I can’t stand 790 either, but got the “What’s our plan on offense” line sitting in 316. Thanks for bringing nothing to the table. I was expecting something like, “In watching them play the games, it creates a mis-match that Joe can then exploit”, or “It opens up Al’s jumper from the free throw line”. But hey, what you said is good too…

Ayanna… Valid point about teammates helping out. This is one case where I think the teams injury situation effected them. Bench guys moving back and forth in the lineup can’t help the offensive flow. But the team did bail him out in 3 of those wins in the Mia series.

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I would trade now for Chris Paul, but back then, nobody was talking about Chris Paul … that’s why i said it’s easy to say that now … plus, you know if we did get CP3 then, we would not be in the position we are now … Iguodala just started blossoming too, so it’s pretty much the same sceneario … the only bust was Sheldon, and we were all dumbfounded when that pick happened, especially when we needed a point guard at the time … you always about other teams when we beat them, it’s b/c of our long/atheltic guys … you can thank BK for that, even though i disliked the guy b/c he never talked to the media (which is why the media bad-mouthed him all the time)

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Lets not be hasty here…we need a point guard that can push the ball up court(ben gordan),play defense(ben gordan)is a free agent this year!,then go get a big man in the draft by trading future drafts to move up to get someone like the big kid from connecticut.keep all our pieces in check minus bibby.im even good going after a top notch coach who maybe available.

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Wouldn’t be a good idea to look at a player trade BEFORE looking at a coaching change. This teams problem has always been with decision making by the GM, and the coach’s inability to improve the players provided to them.

Regarding Joe Johnson, I guess I’m the only one who has the opinion that if not for Joe Johnson, last years Boston series would NOT have gone 7 games. Or am I just not remembering his scoring dual with Pierce accurately. Home games only of course. And to compare the production of a double teamed Johnson to a singly defended Smith is ridiculous and paints the wrong picture.

What that TELLS you is that even the other team recognizes where the offensive production from this team comes from – and that it is the other players production that they can live with. Until you improve the production of the “others”, by trade, coaching up, etc – I wouldn’t make Joe Johnson the focal point of a trade.

Unless of course it is for a Dewayne Caliber player.

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Trade Mike Woodson for Avery Johnson big man for little man.

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The Hawks are still missing the same thing they’ve been missing for 5 years now. A point guard. Bibby was a huge upgrade over Speedy (Jeff, you would be an upgrade over Speedy)but only a mild upgrade over Tyrone Lue. He can make some nice passes and shoot the 3, but he cannot penetrate and draw defenders and set up his teammates. JJ is the only player on this team that can penetrate and score or dish (well, Flip can sometimes). The Hawks are still suffering from the mistake of not taking Paul or Deron Williams instead of Marvin. And until they get a real PG, the team will continue to be right where they are, a notch below the elite teams in the East.
And I agree with others who point out that Josh shows more upside because Josh is NEVER double teamed, and rarely even guarded outside of 12 feet. The Cavs just basically ignored him unless he was in the paint.

And while I’m at it, maybe it’s coaching that is a problem. Woody obviously has a problem getting through to Josh. Woody is running the same offense that Detroit ran when he was an assistant coach there. JJ is Rip Hamilton, Marvin is Teyshown Prince, Josh is Rasheed, Al is Ben Wallace and Bibby is Billups. The only problem is that JJ is the only one on par with the abilities of those Pistons (well, Al is actually better than Ben but that role is insignificant in the offense).

Let’s go get a new PG, either Jarret Jack, or maybe Johnny Flynn or Lawson in the draft and a new coach and the rest of this squad will be closer to Boston and Orlando than you think.

But it won’t matter because LeBron will still be in Cleveland and will be ruling the East for years to come. He is a freak.

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Oh, and I forgot, Bibby cannot guard ANYONE. Just like Lue. Anytime Cleveland needed a basket they found who was on Bibby and that was that.

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JD – look at the teams he was playing against … memphis, Miami, Milwaukee, Toronto, Inidiana … Joe could have been on one leg and scored those points against those teams.

Yeah, it’s Schultz’s opinions, but some people who don’t attend games aren’t smart enough to know that and then take what’s written for fact. I never said anything about it being an upbeat article like “whoo, go hawks” but having a headline like that is of course going to draw readership and piss us fans off who have been attending the games the past few years and see what he does night in and night out

Oh, and about Joe not stepping up to the challenge … i was there for the Home Opener in 0506 when Joe and Kobe were exchanging shots, and you can’t say this guy doesn’t step up … he doesn’t score the points b/c he doesn’t get the calls when he’s driving the lanes like D-wade or lebron … then again, he doesn’t complain, and i for one would like to see maybe a little bit more of that

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Ayanna, We are not saying J.J. is not a good player were just saying he’s not a floor leader. Look, he doesnt communicate with other players. How may times did J.J. go to the freethrow line? which means he’s not being aggressive. There is a goog chance the hawks will not offer Joe what he wants after next year so he’s probally out the door anyway. TRADE JOE JOHNSON AND GO GET CHRIS BOSH AND MOVE AL HORFORD TO THE POWERFORD position. He’s not a CENTER.

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I still feel Woodson is the one that needs to go. We need a coach who actually has a play book. He teaches good defense but offense is a foreign language to him. We need to do like Detroit did. Flip Saunders took them so far and then Larry Brown sealed the deal. The Hawks also have to have a legit center to compete. I wish we could have been the one who would have gotten Gasol instead of the Lakers.

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It seems that there are two basic team models that lead to an NBA title.

Model #1- Superstar who can individually determine game outcome night-in, night-out, with adequate supporting cast. Adequate meaning a couple of players in the top 10 at their position, and a few bench players that can give minutes and points or defense so you can go legit 8-9-man rotation.
Current teams eligible for this model? Cleveland, Lakers, Heat, Orlando, – possibly New Orleans
Teams possibly heading that way? Portland (if B Roy continues to improve); Chicago – (D. Rose is going to be a monster). Ok City – Durant and this team could be very, very good in 2 years.

Model #2 – At least 2 – prefer 3 – foundational players that are perennial all-stars or at a minimum in the top 5-6 at their position. Then fill the team with a mix of veteran role players – who know their role – and youth that can be developed to provide defense/energy.
Teams in this model: Denver; Boston; San Antonio-who has perfected this model.

We’ve seen either of these models can win an NBA title. The Hawks are closer to the 2nd of these two models. Whether Horford develops into a high-quality offensive player is probably dependent on getting him out of the 5. Take your pick – Horford, Johnson, Smith? Horford, Smith, Williams? Johnson, Williams, Horford? Any of these as a nucleus makes sense and has merit. Now – draft a center, a backup (veteran) point that can play defense, and manage the minutes next year.

The likelihood of trading for a player that let’s you compete using model #1 is almost zero – so work with what you have and keep building.

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Schultz, you’re CRAZY! Trade Joe over Josh Smith. Joe Johnson carried this team for years and you have the nerve to say that. You should be fired! You should be ashamed to write for the AJC. This is the Atlanta Journal Constitution. What city do you think you’re writing for? Disloyal fans and sports writers! You are a big reason why fans turn there backs. I hope you can sleep at night. Stop writing about the Hawks.

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Why Sund won’t explore trading Joe…job security.
When you trade a team’s top player, you better be right, otherwise…you’re fired.

Example see Philly and Iverson. See Minnesota & KG. Sure it was time for them to go, but if you don’t get the better end of that deal, your GM loses his job.

You almost never get value in the 3-4 good guys for a better guy trade. What did the Lakers keep after Shaq went to Miami? What did Miami get when he went to Phoenix? The only effective answer is cap relief.

All that said, Marvin is a restricted free agent and Bibby, Pachulia, Gardner, West, Murray, Hunter, & Jones are at the end of their contracts now. Your boy Rick has plenty of roster moves to consider…and he has to pay attention to the draft this year.

Get a reliable, big body that makes an improvement in the front court. Get a speed guy in the backcourt that Woody is willing to play and the team is better. This team could be radically different without trading anyone.

Sund needs to give Woody and assignment. Watch some Chuck Daly coaching tapes. We are not as physical as those Piston teams, but we have similar offensive personnel. They were much more successful on offense than we are.

BWAF

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Lets face it the hawks need a “Center”. Also, re-sign Childress and then talk about getting rid of JJ or Bibby.

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Trade Z for …. a grilled chicken from KFC…Oh oprahs got that covered. What can we get for Za Za “watch this turnover”? Can we get anything for Mr “the road to the bucket is now open”…”please tie your parachutte before launching?” Can we just get a decent center to average 14-16 points, 12 reb and block some shots…Can we force the other teams to shoot outside instead of them forcing us outside?

And No ZaZa…I cant top that turnover!

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So the premise that the Hawks should trade JJ is based on mediocre playoff performance and also his lack of fiery leadership is an interesting one.

One wonders what would have been if the Braves had applied this same standard and jettisoned Maddux and Glavine? With the exception one very notable exception, both pitchers failed to get it done more often than not in the playoffs. Neither were in your face type of leaders on a team where the leaders were 3 starting pitchers.

Look if “shaking up the team” is the way to go, then everyone ids potential trade bait on principle.There’s no need to ignore the player’s performance during the regular season in order to justify trading him. This is especially true on a team that just advanced out of the 1st Round for the first time in a decade.

Blame falls on every player’s shoulder if one looks hard enough. We can blame the Head Coach, the GM who retained that coach and of course ownership who blessed the entire thing.

You don’t trade players without comparable replacements. That should be the one of the first rules of making any trade.

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Joe = Good during the regular season
Joe = Poor in the playoffs

Josh = Frustrating/Good in the regular season
Josh = Frustrating/Hawks best player in the playoffs

Which is more important? Regular season or playoffs?

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I don’t think we could trade for anyone who can actually improve the team and replace Joe’s points. The Spirit group is not going to pay for that guy even if he were available. We could have used a big like Tree or Dikembe this year but we didn’t have one. The Hawks did improve this year and Sund has to decide what we can do to add to the win total next year, especially the playoff win total. Let’s not tear the team apart and start over with a 30 win rebuild group again.

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Until they get players who believe in themselves and their coaching staff, they will never reach that elite status. If Kobe, D Wade, KG, LJ, and Chris P were on the same team but were passive like the Hawks are, they would not be an elite team neither!

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I see all the posts on how Joe was doubled all of the time…NOOOOOOO, REALLY!! Of course teams were going to double our best perimeter shooter/scorer, that’s what good basketball teams do. The point that you guys are missing is that a “go to guy” still has to produce as would any player that you give that label. It’s safe to assume that if you don’t produce in those situations that any team will suffer.

The facts are exactly as Jeff pointed out…Joe struggled to produce in 9 out of 11 games the Hawks played. They could have conceivably lost in the first round to an inferior Miami team.

I guess the question is this, how do the Hawks better themselves as currently constituted (with the lousy Spirit as management)? They will certainly not ante up to sign any big time free agents, so the only avenue to explore is the draft or trade market. The most attractive piece the Hawks could offer (that would secure them a decent package) would be to trade Joe Johnson for the right player(s)/draft picks. It’s not too difficult to see that they could get better and improve this club by trading him.

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Schultz, you’re an idiot! It has been dumb ass decisions like yours that has made the Hawks the worst managed team in the NBA. The reason JJ had few points in the playoff was that the opposition knew no one else on the team could hit the side of the barn wide open. So they shut down JJ and laughed when Smith Horford Williams (your three picks) missed wide open shots. Meanwhile, Bibby was on the bench yawning all game. I surprised he didn’t lay down and take a nap. I’m embarrassed for the Hawks, they mailed that game in laid down like a mat. Get a decent point guard, a real center, and someone who can shoot to help JJ.

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Hawks73, it takes a team to win a basketball game. Stop putting all the blame on Joe. And if they had lost to Miami I would have said the Hawks lost, not Joe Johnson lost. Key word: HAWKS

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Ayanna – Not putting all the blame on Joe, it’s just that he would attract more of a market for the players the Hawks need to make this “team” better. If you have a better idea please share it with me…

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hey Kirkinga,

What do Maddox and Glavine have to do with pick and rolls?

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Congratulations and thanks to the Hawk’s team, coaches, owners, administration and fans. Regardless of what some of the comments that have been made you did a wonderful job this year. And don’t worry about the comments being made. They probably don’t know the first thing about coaching or playing the game, that’s why they are at home commenting, and you are still getting paid.

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Anyone who thinks a coaching change will make the Hawks a true championship contender doesn’t understand basketball. It’s that simple. The NBA is a player’s game. The teams with the best players win. The Hawk’s current roster will not win a Championship no matter who coaches them. No coach can hit jump shots for Joe Johnson, play defense for Marvin, grab rebounds for Josh Smith, etc. If you want to see the Hawks compete for a championship then you want to see them try something different by shaking up the roster. If you want a team that will never be great then you want to see little roster changes made and some meaningless move like hiring a new coach.

Oh, and why does anyone care if Marvin Williams comes back. He’s just a guy. He’ll never be a difference maker. Maybe if the Hawks can sing him for a cheap, long term deal then he’s worth keeping, but not for big money. He’s a glorified role player.

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Trade Joe! Perposterious! Joe is the ONLY Hawks player that consistently gets doubled because he IS the only one that can beat you consistently! The only knock on Joe is his lack of vocal leadership. We have other guys that lead. But there are just too many problems with this team and it starts at the top! Too many owners! And they are in disarry! Same goes for the team with their development and play! And their problems only compound when you have a young team with critical pieces that have to develop. If anyone should be traded it should be Josh, and heres why! If you watch the Hawks play you will see Josh take untimely and unwarranted shot after shot, trying to handle the ball with very subpar handles, ill-advised passes, repeated whining to the refs, and a lack of post game and mid-range game for a NBA PF or player period. Even Marvin has impoved his game from year to year! He used to only shoot mid range but now he has broadened his range to the three. He shoots better from the FT line, has a higher FG%, and less turnovers than JS. And he’s coachable too! Al is or should be the future! He’ll bang with anyone and not back down. He’ll rebound and gives us “toughness” on the blocks. The only good things you can say about JS is he is atheletic and occassionally plays good defense, but other than that EVERYONE in Atlanta holds their breath and or heart skips a beat when the ball is in his hands for the reason that I have given! But despite it all he is coveted like an all-star, but has never been in the 5 yrs. he been in the league! He’s basically the same player he was when he came into the league! So, just because JS is from ATL that don’t mean he gets a pass over everybody! I am from, meaning born and raised, GA. as a matter of fact the same city where JS is from, College Park. So, I know the history of ATL franchises and what is NOT acceptable. But the sad part about it is that I know JS does too, but gives us that every night! COME ON!!! Trade his ass and get Amare Stoudamire! He can do the same things but is a BEAST on the offensive and defensive end!

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I love it, if i was Joe Johnson i would beg for a trade…he comes to a team that won less the 15 games and takes them to the second round of the playoffs in four years..guys come on, every possesion he was doubled, if he forces it he’s playin bad, if he passes he’s not aggressive enough..this will be two years in a row the Hawks..Joe Johnson’s hawks have gotten put out by the team that wins it all..can’t complain too much, Joe you played great if it were’nt for you, every hawks fan woulda been watchin playoffs from home not at Phillips arena..Keep it up JJ, screw the people who wanna jump on the “joe’s not good enough” ship..your a top 10 player in the league..great year

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yall josh haters kill me, the man out perform joe in the playoffs. help side defense and rebrounds. look at the d#mn box score who had the most points for our hawks. when espn commentators showed our lost to Cleveland what players they show side by side. lebron and JOSH SMITH. AND IF THEY DO TRADE SMITH I DA%N SURE WANT WATCH A DAMN GAME. ONLY THE GAME JOSH COMES BACK AND SH#TS ON US WITH BLOCKS AND DUNKS AND ALLEYS.

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We could trade Joe for Isaiah Rider – wait, we already went thru that 10 years of hell. Let’s just re-sign everybody, get a legit Center, draft well and see where we end up. It is not time to blow this team up – yet. Keep Woody also. I like where we are, a couple of more pieces and we could definetly be the big dogs!

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Okay, what I don’t know about basketball could fill a warehouse. But some “common sense” things do occur to me. When I read Schultz article suggesting that Joe Johnson be traded, I didn’t think it was a terrible idea. I’d just want to be sure the Hawks weren’t snookered, hoodwinked, bamboozled and flimflammed in the deal. GM Ric Sund “seems” like a capable GM. I don’t really know, however. He’s too new. But he has to be BETTER than Billy Knight. But I digress.

Admittedly, I don’t know enough about basketball to know what a GOOD TRADE FOR JJ would be. Any ideas out there? It would help me to evaluate Jeff Schultz’ article. But here’s the other thought that came to me. Why not re-sign Joe Johnson? I think a re-signed JJ would help the GM to bring in more talented free agents. Are basketball players “washed up” at 28? I don’t know. I don’t know enough about basketball to have formulated an opinion about that. All I know is … I’d like to see the Hawks continue to move forward, than to REGRESS again. It’s been a long time since the Hawks won a playoff series. And it’s been a while since they made back-to-back playoff appearances. I don’t especially want to see Atlanta headed back to the lottery draft because they started losing all their key players to free agency, or via trades, especially if it’s because of a lack of spending on the part of the ownership. If it’s working for Atlanta, why not try to keep it going? In the NBA, are you allowed to PROACTIVELY re-sign a guy, 1-year ahead of schedule? If so, why not proactively approach JJ and see if a deal can be struck to keep him? If he says, “I won’t re-sign here.” Then trade him, but make dang sure nobody else knows Johnson won’t be back. Thoughts?

Okay, one last thing. Sorry, I had to do this. I didn’t want to, though. But here goes. JOE JOHNSON is the whole reason the ownership is in the mess it is. What does trading him say, then? Does it say, “Well gee, Belkin was right all along. Maybe we should get rid of this guy?” Or, does re-signing JJ validate what the Spirit Boys were trying to do all along? If JJ really is this valuable of a commodity, that it sent the ownership into a 5+ year tailspin, maybe they’d better hold on to him? Thoughts on that, as well.

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I don’t think Joe’s the problem. The problem is the Hawks need a big man in the middle. Let’s say a Stoudamire who becomes a free agent this year. This would allow Horford to far back into his true position as a power forward, and give us a look like Bibby, Joe, Josh, Horford, and Stoudamire while Marvin is your six man.

One of the biggest problems is not enough ball movement and to much man to man. They are not creating space and don’t rotate the ball enough to create open shots. This is something coaching has to implement in order for them to be successful. But, it’s to earlier to shakeup an up and coming young team.

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Why think it has to be one or the other? There are very few players who can carry a team; the Hawks should build around BOTH JJ and Smith. Without the injuries they would have looked better against Cleveland, which is where they should be at this stage.

Also, it is true that Lebron and D-Wade face double-teams, but there are only a few players in the league like that. It’s crazy to think that unless someone can play through double-teams and carry your whole offense like Lebron then you should trade him.

It’s also unfair to complain about Horford “milking” his injury. He rolled that ankle badly and it’s to his credit he tried to come back so soon. I thought he’d be out for weeks.

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Enter your comments here

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I believe the Hawks should trade Marvin Williams and Zsa Zsa Pchulia for Chris Paul or Gilbert Arenas, depending on which GM agrees to the trade. If we acquired either of those talents along with Antonio McDyess the Hawks would be ready to win a championship. Easy Fix.

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I’m sorry, Jeff, but I have to disagree with you here, for several reasons.

First, didn’t think Hawk team achieve it’s goal this year? Yes, they did not play well against the Cavs, and losing two in a row on your home floor in the playoffs to end the season, is a big disappointment. However, there is a guy named Lebron James who had much to do with that. Simply put, the guy is unreal. He’s better than Kobe, and better than Shaq was in his prime. If I had to predict, I would say that the Cavs right now have to be the odds on favorite to win the 2009 NBA title.

Why should this team trade away one of its core guys, when we made progress each year? Last year, it was “Make the playoffs”, and we did that. This year, it was “Win a series”. We did that. To me, this team seems right on schedule. Maybe next year, we’ll have 50 plus wins, and a trip to the Eastern Finals. Not completely unrealistic, considering how this team has improved over the last couple of years.

I say, keep Joe Johnson. Keep the core, and improve the bench somewhat.

I hope that the Hawks don’t do anything radical to “blow up the team”. They have become one of the better teams in the NBA, and it would be a shame for a team that was a laughingstock merely two to three years ago, and has made progress every year, to panic, and trade a core guy who is still a good, young player.

Mitch

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I can tell from reading the BLOGS today that fans are angry and are looking for a scapegoat to blame for the Hawks losing shamefully to the Cavs. Joe is partially to blame but he is not the sole reason for the Hawks loss to the Cavs. The entire team is to blame. So if there is a scapegoat it is the entire team, all the coaches and the entire management all the way up to the owners. IT IS NOT JOE JOHNSONS FAULT WHY THE HAWKS LOST.

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When you consider the team salaries, I think the Hawks have gotten great value from this current roster.
[(Consider this NBA salary list)/ http://hoopshype.com/salaries.htm

New York Knicks have the highest paid team roster in the NBA (rated #1 out of 30 at $94,842,168 and they didn’t make the payoff. They should be the joke of the NBA not the Hawks.

The Cavaliers is rated #3 out of 30 at $91,650,943 and they are the top seed in the payoff. This may explain why they are a top contender for the title this year. It’s all about the Benjamin.

The Hawks are in the lower tier group at #22 out of 30 at $68,012,332. They were 4th seed in the playoff and they advanced to the second round. In fact, of the second round teams, the Hawks had the lowest paid roster. You could say that the Hawks have gotten the must mileage out of this current roster. I guess from this prospective, us fans should have nothing to complain about. The owners should be laughing all the way to the bank no matter what they say publicly about financial condition.

As for Joe Johnson Salary of $14,232,566, that is comparable to the following “Super Star” salaries at $14,410,581 a year:
Chris Bosh
Dwayne Wade
Camelo Anthony
Lebron James

Now asked yourself, does he belong in this group? You be the judge. He is certainly our best player relatively speaking. Joe Johnson can coexist on this team if he is paired with the right “Batman and Robin” combination where he is the “Robin”. We would need to pay the “Batman” on our team from Mike Bibby’s current salary of up to $15M/year. For $15M, we could get a lot of value. Consider these available players (just to name a few):
Lamar Odom
Ron Artest
Hidayet Turkoglu
Charlie Villanueva

I know some fans have a love fest with our current roster, but there is a lot of value on the market these days. If Sund plays his hand correctly, he could bring some great additions to this team to coexist with Joe Johnson minus Mike Bibby.

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Joe definitely wasn’t himself in the playoffs, but they shouldn’t trade him. Please trade Marvin Williams!!!!! While he’s a nice enough guy, he simply has not produced for the Hawks. Josh Smith is talneted, but he’s a head case and looms as a potential liability to the club. While he may be a premier defender and dunker, his shooting style sucks bad!!! Who taught him how to shoot???? ZaZa is a bench player and we need a big guy in the middle and a player just like Flip who isn’t scared to take it to the hole or shoot with wreckless abandon. Flip has heart and he is a true baller. Joe was passing up easy shots because he lost his swagger and confidence. I barely recognized his game. He has to learn to play through the double teams the same way Lebron and Kobe does…he’s good enough. Lots to do in the off season..let’s see what happens…

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Just like fake Atlanta fans, soon as the the team has a little success they want to start being fake gm’s. Joe has been consistent and the only talent in the league that wanted to come here, the rest of the cats was drafted here. Previous to Bibby coming, the defense around the league was to double team Joe. I know Joe didnt have a great post season and he admitted it but you get rid of Joe, we gonna have another 10 years of not making the playoffs.

I wish the bandwagon fans stay on the bandwagon and stop giving all this advice. Schultz pull up your articles 5 years ago where you didnt say anything good about the Hawks!!!

Its not like we going to get something in return to win the championship, is phoenix gonna take joe back for amare!

Same cats down on Joe, gonna be all on his back next year watch

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Joe is what we thought he was!!! mediocre!!! When The hawks signed JJ, on day 1, the whole world was is shock that the hawks made a player that would be a good compliment into the role of a superstar, & a Franchise Player $84mil wow!!!. Joe is Good, but he is not a Leader of a team. I’m not saying get rid of him either, but lessen his role! Josh Smith, Has alot of talent, but he HAS to go out everyday this off season hit the weights, and shoot 1,000 JUMPSHOTS WITH A SHOOTING COACH, then he will be a Superstar! until then, Josh needs to only drive to the basket!

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I hope we keep Joe Johnson. People there are only 3 SUPERSTARS in the NBA Kobe/ Lebron/ D. Wade. There are on a level by themselves, and these types don’t grow on trees. Joe is a Excellent player. How soon we forget when Joe Johnson and Josh Smith trashed the World Champion Celtics last year in “The Highlight Factory”.
When the season started and we looked at the Roster most people thought the Hawks had the 6 or 7th best roster in the EAST. We finished 4th; We got 10 more wins than the year before; We won our first playoff series in 10 years. The Hawks are still my team. If you want to jump off the bandwagon so be it.

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KEEP IT REAL, Joe only came to atlanta for the money! no one else offered him as much or matched the stupid $84 mil that the Hawks is paying him!

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I was having this discussion with my Dad and Uncle this weekend on my way to Falcons training camp, and it’s a discussion that must be had.

The first thing is admitting a couple truths.
1. This is our ceiling with the team we have, we are a forth seed that will make it past the first round only to be run out of the gym by the 1 seed, that is all…improving the bench wont change this so some drastic measures are necessary not to fall into a place of mediocrity. and yes 4th seed is better than not making the playoffs at all but lets be honest, the goal is a championship and this team can’t get us there.

2. While Mike Woodson isn’t a great coach we’ve improved under him every year that he’s been our coach…you can’t sanely argue that point, our record proves it…my issue with Woody is that in the half court set me have no offense it’s basically a one on one matchup at all positions. I’m not saying we try the triangle or anything that detailed but we have to get some movement off the ball and I don’t think Woody has that in his bag of tricks. The honest truth is that until we stop improving Woody is going to be the coach.

so with all that said we’re stuck, if we do nothing different we’ll be a 4 or 5 seed for the next 5 years, just out of the lottery were we could get the help we need, so to me that means CHANGE something… so lets look at our players in short

Bibby- Good reg season, horrible couple last games of post season, sign him for cheap or let him walk

JJ- inconsistant super star who in that hurts more than anything. We’re paying him and looking to him like he’s our Kobe, DWade or Lebron, unless he can contribute at a high level night in and night out he’ll never be that. I say trade him

Marvin- I wanted to kick him out of town last year, but he got better, developed a 3 point shot and to me saved his spot on the team, we need him healthy though. resign

Jsmooth- didnt want to resign him because he has a tendency to get out of control on the court and hurt us more than help. we resigned him and so we’re kind of stuck here. I really need for him to give up on shooting ball outside of 10-feet and drive all the time, NO MORE 3’s MR. SMITH…thx

Al- get healthy, i think you’re a 4 and not a 5 still.

bench- step up or step off.

I propose we trade JJ and his sometime superstar sometime bum playing for as high of a pick as we can and another solid defensive minded big man. in the draft grab a 2 and then a 1 and then see what we have. Acie isnt getting it done but someone must….

players I like in the draft at PG and SG
James Harden SG- might have to trade up to 5 to get him but this kid is going to be special
PG’s that might be available with our current pick in this order
Eric Maynor – Ty Lawson – Jonny Flynn – Jeff Teague – Patrick Mills – Toney Douglas – Darren Collison

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JB33 YOU AVE NO HEART THAT’S WHY YOUR USERNAME IS JB 33! LOL SAY WHAT YOU MEAN AND REVEAL YOUR TRUE IDENTITY. JOSH SMITH HAS! & IT’S TAKES ALOT OF HEART TO DRIVE DOWN THE LANE AND DUNK ON 2 & 3 GUYS AT THE SAME TIME! CLOWN

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THE WHOLE HAWKS TEAM DIDNT SHOW UP ON THE ROAD IN THE PLAYOFFS! THEY SUCKED!!!

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How about keep Joe and surround him with players who can actually play (like the Cavs have with LeBron). Sure, Josh Smith scored 26, but that’s only because Cleveland was committed to shutting down Joe (Success!). Let Smith have his 26 and take an “L”. We don’t need Smith shooting 3’s and bringing the ball up the floow. We don’t need Mike Bibby yawning through elimination games. With all due respect, we could use a rebound somewhere along the line if you don’t mind.

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IT’S FUNNY HOW PEOPLE TALK ABOUT WHAT JOE JOHNSON DID LAST YEAR! LOL PEOPLE THIS IS AMERICA!!! (LIKE JANET JACKSON SAID) WHAT HAVE YOU DONE FOR ME LATELY? LOL THERE ALWAYS HAS TO BE A SCAPEGOAT!!!

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MIKE, TELL US WHAT WE NEED THEN! LET ME GUESS? WE NEED JOE! HA HA HA HA!!! CAN YOU BELIEVE WE GAVE JJ $84MIL IN THE FIRST PLACE? LOOK A THE NBA ROSTER OF GUARDS WITH THE SAME SALARY & THEY MOSTLY SUPER STARS! IS JOE A SUPER STAR? WHAT NATIONAL ADVERTISEMENTS DO YOU SEE JOE JOHNSON ON? HELLO, WHAT ENDORSEMENT COMMERCIALS DO YOU SEE JOE ON? THIS DUDE IS A AVERAGE PLAYER THAT NBA COACHES VOTE A ALL STAR BECAUSE THERE’S NO ONE ELSE IN THE EAST TO FILL THAT VOID! SUPER STARS GET VOTED AN ALL STAR BY THE FANS!!! JOE GETS VOTED IN BY THE COACHES! GET IT?

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trade joe are you f-ing kidding me? How about the mo**** f***ing option of not making the playoffs, huh?!!!!!! trade joe, what the…?

Anyway, Ayanna I was just wondering if you were free this saturday

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And I forgot to mention Marvin Williams, not much to say except I think he’s gone extinct.

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Oh!!
I forgot about Ben Gordon, he is also available. Now that’s a real Baller!!

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KEEP JOE LESSEN HIS ROLE, AND GO GET A TRUE CENTER THAT JUST WANTS TO REBOUND & LAY WOOD ON LEBRON WHEN HE TRIES TO COME DOWN THE LANE! THE WHOLE HAWKS TEAM IS SOME PUNKS! THEY WERE SCARED OF A MAN THAT BLEEDS JUST LIKE THEY DO! THEY LET LEBRON COME DOWN THE LANE AND CONTORL THE WHOLE COURT HOWEVER HE WANTED TOO! AND WHENEVER HE WANTED TO! YOU HAVE 6 FOULS!!! USE THEM!!!

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RESIGN BIBBY, GET A BIG MAN LIKE ZYDRNAS LLGAUSKAS. GET A STRONG PERSON FOR THE GO TO GUY WHO HAS THE CAPABILITY TO TAKEOVER THE GAME. SOMEONE WHO JOE CAN COMPLIMENT. AND DEVELOPMENT THE BENCH AND FORCE SMITH TO LEARN HOW TO SHOOOT!!!! I WOULD EVEN SAY MOVE SMITH TO SMALL FORWARD BUT EVERYTHING CANT BE ACCOMPLISHED AT ONCE!!!

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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/173500-your-2010-atlanta-hawks-what-must-be-fixed-and-where-to-start

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Common sense, im buying a lot of your take, but u and I know joe isn’t average. When Marvin went down, Joe scored like 30 or more in several games there after. It would have been nice to actually have someone make a shot when Joe passed out of a double team. Dang I even saw them double a couple of times when Lebron was guarding Joe. If the Hawks had someone like Kobe everyone on this board would be singing Joe’s praises because it would be Kobe passing out of a doulbe team to JJ. Its not Joe’s fault he is overpaid! He is a very good Nba basketball player, just not in the same leauge with Lebron and Kobe. Do u really think the Hawks win a game if they have Paul Pierce instead of JJ?

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Why should they continue doing what has kept the Hawks bad for years? Lets trade the best player on the team again?? Joe Johnson is prob one of the top 5 shooting guards in the NBA. We need to get some more talent that will keep teams from double teaming him. Maybe if Josh Smith could shoot from anywhere beyond the paint, Joe might be able to shine more. Oh here is a hint lets get a new coach that can draw up maybe some offensive plays instead of “dribble, pass, dribble shoot!!! Oh and someone please tell Josh Smith to stop bringing the ball up when you have your guard right next to him.

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Lebron splits double teams like last night Joe looks to pass and this what people say they want here I hope they keep him so people like me who want Josh Smith to stay and Joe to lead can say we told you so he never busted 30 one stinking night he only showed up game7 against Miami,I’m no Smith apologists but the guy has uber talent it’s just misguided at times but if they trade him I will not watch for at least 2 years because it would take that long for me to get over it,someone just needs to get in his face who he respects Joe has no respect he accuses them of quitting when u busy for 30 Joe then say they quit but it looks to me like you quit and I agree Woody does not know how to develop young talent look at Houston Landry,Wafer,Brooks,A.C went head to head with Durant in college and won and now he can’t play get real the man has game it’s the coaching who has reeled him in develop give them playing time and they get confidence,Josh has passion passion can be coached but you can’t coach lack of fire and with Joe thats what we have I hate a quiet guy what is he living for if he does not express it not anyone could tell us anything about Joe except he’s a fan favorite he’s not my favorite who voted him in that award I want guys like Horford,Zaza,Marvin,Josh,West guys who show fire hell Nowitzki shows more emotion and he’s white geez!

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Jeff, What are you thinking my man. Look at the Heat and Cavs. When D.Wade and LeBron did get double team by the Hawks they pass to open jump shooters that hit their shots. When Joe was double teamed he passed to wide open players and they missed their shots, execpt for Bibby, now if Marvin and Horford were healty we would of won maybe two or three games against the cavs. Josh is a up and coming young player but he needs to mature on the court and in the locker room. Marvin has worked on his game every year during the off season, but could be used as trade bait. Joe need some help. Let’s see Bosh, Horford, Smith or Williams, Joe & Bibby as your starters. Murray, Evans, and Zaza coming off the bench with a legit backup 3point shooter that we pick up this year from somewhere, then we will be a true contender for the NBA championship. We need to trade Smith or Williams, Acie Law (since he’s never used) and the rights to Chidress to the Raptors for Bosh and one of there 3 point shooters. Hawks better act fast because if they don’t Miami will and then we will be the 5th or 6th best team in the east, because you know the pistons are gonna make a major trade after that trade they made last year that hurt them (Iverson 4 Billups). So leave Joe along just get him some help…. a legit center

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And please Rod…there is an important component of writing and grammar. It’s called punctuation. Please use it because reading your paragraph was unbearable

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Blah,blah, blah…Hawks…blah, blah, blah…Holyfield…blah, blah, blah…WHOA! Layla Kiffin is SMOKIN! Excellent item Jeff.

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The only solution is to get a TRUE, pass first point guard with the ability to score (like a Chris Paul or Deron Williams) that can draw double teams. We also need a big man and a new coach. I suggest Jeff Van Gundy because Avery Johnson is known to be am extremely rigid coach so stop brining uo his name!!! There’s a reason he was fired in Dallas…

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I bet you hated Moreno because he left early you would say stay you need a education,I would say go and get your $ thats why you go to college we just think different GA there is nothing wrong with that we just disagree!

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I see you have changed your tune on Josh Smith from your previous article at least somewhat. Yes, he is easily the most talented player with the greatest upside on the team. No, Al Horford has done nothing to prove he is a better building block than Smoove (don’t get me wrong though, I do like Horford’s game a lot).

It’s interesting that you bring up trading Joe. Some of us, including me, have mentioned this possibility on Sekou’s blog in the past. I don’t think this series is necessarily indicative of his full abilities — a more open offensive system and healthier ankles would probably have allowed him to perform better. He is not, though, the superstar that he was billed to be when he was acquired. If the Hawks can put together a package including him to acquire a legit superstar that will take this team beyond 50 wins and deeper in the playoffs, then it’s certainly worth it. If not, you could do a lot worse than Joe Johnson as your lead dog, and it would be foolish to trade him simply because he’s not LeBron James or Dwyane Wade.

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Trade J. Johnson to the Hornets for Tyson Chandler. Al Horford is playing out of position and we need a true center. The Hornets are looking to deal Tyson anyway, so this our opportunity to finally get a big body in the middle. We can easily replace Joe with Ben Gordan (Chi-town) who is a free agent this off-season.

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“Ga bulldawg you are wrong when Brandon hit hthe game winning shot against Houston that was emotion Joe could not hold Brandon jock strap!’

No Rod, you are wrong! I have league pass and I watch the Blazers play all the time (I’m a Hawks and Blazers fan) and that was one of the rare times Roy showed emotion. Joe is the same way…he shows emotion but rarely

And please…I don’t hate Moreno because he left early. It’s his choice and I’m happy for him. Trust me, i will be rooting for him and Stafford in the NFL. Why stay one more year and risk injury when you can go get your money now and go back to school after you retire or if the NFL doesn’t work out?

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Hawks have come a long way in the last few years. Please get MW out of here bring in Jarret Jack and get a Big man so everyone else can play were they should be playing. If possible bring back Josh C.

Last year first round this year second round lets keep the core and keep getting better. There is only three SUPER STARS in the NBA. LJ will win it all lets not kill the team because he is so GREAT.
Last year Boston beat ATL and then won it all this year CAVS will do the same. SEASON TICKET HOLDER

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Just my thoughts on some of the points made……

1. I don’t get this whole thing about Joe not being a superstar like DWade. Granted, I’m not saying that Joe is a superstar and I’ll admit Wade is more driven but he still got bounced in the first round because he has a weak supporting cast. The same thing happened to Kobe a few years back and practically every year to KG when he was in Minnesota. So, superstardom doesn’t guarantee success. 2.What’s with this Scottie Pippen comparison as if Pippen was just an okay player? That dude made NBA all-defensive teams, all-NBA first teams and was MVP of an all-star game. He is also one of the NBA Top 50 greatest players and probably a first ballot Hall of Famer. Then to turn around and say that Joe is mediocre makes absolutely no sense because Pippen was definitely not mediocre. 3.I’m shocked that anyone really thought the Hawks were going to compete seriously with the Cavs using a 7-man rotation. They were getting blown out by a lesser opponent in the first round, so what were the expectations in the second round? The Cavaliers have a deep veteran bench that has tons of playoff experience and understands their roles. Am I the only one that noticed that they loss nothing when Lebron took his “scheduled” rests at the beginning of the 2nd and 4th quarters? In fact, their bench always outscored the Hawks with Lebron on the bench. 4. Now, the argument about Josh outplaying Joe puzzles me. I’m not leaning either way on this but Josh seemed to make all of the same “dumb” mistakes he usually makes like taking jumpshots and trying to dribble the ball up the court(which results in a turnover most of the time). He made most of his shots under the rim via an assist or on an alley-oop via an assist. I’d be curious to see how many times he’s actually been able to create a shot for himself or his teammates. Not very often. And I don’t want to hear about how young he is either. In age yes, but he’s been in the league 5 years now and that excuse is getting old the same way the Joe Johnson is tired is getting old.

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Okay, what I haven’t heard is WHO Atlanta should trade Joe Johnson for? I’m really interested in knowing a good trade would be. Realistically? Is it for a “lottery draft pick?” It is for a player, or players, already in the NBA. What?

If it’s a GOOD IDEA to trade him, what should the trade be? Nobody seems to be talking about that. Forget, for the moment, that it might be better just to re-sign him. I want to hear … what a GOOD TRADE would be … for Atlanta.

Fire away! Let’s hear some trade ideas. Realistic ones. Kobe, LeBron, Wade, Yao, Shaq … they’re not coming. So, please, keep the trade scenarios to something within the realm of possibility.

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I agree with Charles Barkley: “until the Hawks get a Big man they will continue to lose Big”
I would trade either Joe Johnson or Josh Smith (which ever one is determined to be more valuable to get the best Big available – guessing that we’d get a better big man by trading Josh Smith + maybe a small bench player like Acie etc …play Al at the 4, Marvin at the 3, Joe at the 2, Bibby at 1, and welcome a new offensive big man and watch that offense open up with a little inside out game).

So I’d like to hear from Shultz, would trading Joe or Josh get us a better big man?

I think Bibby is fine on a short term contract (impressed with Flip coming off of the bench)

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hey jeff what goes wrong with your brain？you eat just with that mouth？

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We’ve got what we wanted out of Joe. Thanks for the memories but it’s time to move forward. He doesn’t play defense and disappears in the playoffs. Keep Josh, Al, Marvin, and Bibby. Trade for another guard or bigman a real big. Kiffin’s wife is a hottie.

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Joe Johnson is a good player but not great. Facts: he is 6′8 the tallest SG that doesn’t post up smaller defenders doesnt get any call because he stand behind the free throw line all game, never demand for the ball, hold the ball long, and cant jump. Sorry we have seen the best of JJ so why keep him. Give me RIP Hamilton and throw in T Prince for JJ and get a PG that drives to hold to pass and I bet anyone the Hawks will be a better team. Then trade for Camby.

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Andre Miller is way too old for us to sign; we’d get two solid seasons out of him at best. I honestly think our bench is one of our strengths. We have instant offense in Flip, solid offensive rebounding from Zaza, etc… We had the components to at least make the series respectable, but the Hawks played with no sense of urgency. Had we played with the same intensity and passion as Cleveland, I think we’d be looking at at least a 6 game series…

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People it took this city almost ten years to be happy in basketball. Let’s not go back to the horror years again. What the hawks needs is a reputable center. Joe, Josh, Al, Bibby would all have played better with a good center. That’s what Rick Sund should be looking at doing first.

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Speedy Claxton should be plenty rested by now, so Bibby becomes expendable, right?

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Jeff, this is why you have no business writing about sports. Josh Smith makes too many catastrophic mistakes to justify retaining his services. This guy is a brick & turnover machine. He’s living in some parallel world where he is a great open-court ball handler, and can shoot the lights out. Sure, when he gets the ball inside and takes it to the rack he looks great, and is a serviceable defensive player. The bottom line is that he is not an asset to this team. The Hawks will get more of a return on Smith than they will on Johnson in the trade market- not to mention that they will be a better team without Josh Smith.

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The Hawks should draft Chris Paul. He’s going to be a difference maker in this league.

Oh wait, they already skipped out on the most sure thing in years. Whatever they do, it will be the wrong thing for the team and its fans.

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Im so sick of people whining about how great Joe is. He sucked ass in the playoffs. Wah wah wah hes asked to do too much stuff on the court. Then fire his dumb coach who makes sure he gets to do it all. Funny though he sure likes his coach who plays him 48 damn minutes a game and never ever complains about that plus all the shots he makes. Ya dont necessarily have to trade him but damn quit making it all about him and we might win. But that will never happen as long as everybody including the coach is all over him like ass lice.

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Oh yeah, for the record I in no way have any hate for Josh or Al. But I do have a problem with considering getting rid of your best scorer and assistsman.

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1. Bibby is a jump shooting, non-penetrating point guard. Ok if you have a Kobe or Lebron on the roster, but the Hawks do not have a dynamic perimeter scorer to compliment this type of player.

2. Joe Johnson is a 2 time all-star, and the only player other than Horford who will ever be an all-star. I do not think we should trade him.

3. Marvin Williams. Another one-dimensional jump shooter.

4. Josh Smith. Great athlete, but not a highly skilled offensive player. No real post moves, erratic jump shot, and very shaky off the dribble. Is only effective because of superior athleticism.

5. Al Horford. If not for the fact he is playing out of position, I think he could develop into a premier power forward. Maybe an allstar.

The Hawks need starting center and a more dynamic point guard. I would trade Josh Smith a/or Marvin Williams and anyone else on the bench in order to acquire.

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A JJ for T-Mac trade would be ideal for the Hawks. JJ is garbage is T-Mac is a possible future HOF player.

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Common Sense: What do you mean lessen Joe’s role. That makes no sense. Again, Joe is more than great, he is one of the most talented players to EVER play in the association. Currently today, there are about 5 players in the league who I feel are more talented than Joe, buts that it. Certainly no more than 5. I’ll name them: 1) Kobe 2) LaBron 3) D-Wade 4) Kevin Garnett and 5) Tracy McGrady. Thats it. there is no one else in basketball today with better skills than Joe Johnson. In my opinion, Joe is the fifth best player in the league. Those five guys are exceptional and then there is Joe Johnson who is about as good as the other five, but because he plays in Atlanta, no one is familiar with his skill sets. Joe can do anything on the court, particularly take over games in the fourth quarter if he was pressed to do that. The reason why Joe didnt do that in the Cleveland series is because Joe was hurt, in one game went out at halftime in a wheelchair and really was not himself. But stupid folks who are unfamiliar with his talents keep bashing him but I tell you he is greater than most of the players in the league with the exception of about five guys. Last year the Hawks would have been toast in the Boston series and Joe almost singlehandedly kept the Hawks in the series and made sure the Hawks were tied at 3-3 after six games. The Hawks gained so much respect around the league for accomplishing that, but it was due in large part because of Joe Johnson. If you dont believe me, go back and look at the video tapes of those six games and see who the most dominant player was. Im sure your eyes wont deceive you.

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Dap…. S. Marbury hasn’t guarded anyone in 8 years… Let’s see, a better team defeats you and and you’re ready to throw the man who got past MIA over board? Typical Jeff Schultz thinking, it lacks clarity…. He spent two months running Josh Smith into the ground, now he tells us to build around him… Talk about a blind ass squirrel trying to lead us out of the wilderness… Keep your pieces, get them healthy; and the only way you make a trade of any type is to get the the big Euro from Utah (and that ain’t gonna happen), the underachiever in Charlotte (see inside the parentheses above)… I said it last year, and I’ll say it again… Call the Lakers and make an offer for Chris Mims…. Tall, runs reasonably well and he will board… You don’t need a scoring center… You need scrap and better hands than ZaZa… You bring in with your energy guys… Folks, Mario West is never going to be more than Mario Ellie lite without the spot-up 3’s….

The questions on this team are bench, motivation to defend, not just in brief moments, and the players to hit midrange jumpers when left open… Streaky is good in NCAA basketball, but in the NBA it generally gets you killed…

So Bibby can’t guard, let’s go down the list, Kidd can’t,Parker can’t, Fisher can’t Nash… The list goes on and on… That is why this team needs A SHOT BLOCKER besides Josh especially when you depend on switching on picks… We funnel drivers in, but there is never anyone home….

In closing, JEFF SCHULTZ, you’re still a NO TALENT HACK!!!

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JJ and Marvin for Rudy Gay and O.J. Mayo. Let Bibby, Mo, and Solo go, re-sign Zaza, draft Patty Mills in the 1st rd, Danny Green in the 2nd and pick up Marcus Camby. 1st team: Mills, Mayo, Gay, Smoove, Camby. 2nd team: Acie, Flip, Green Horford, Zaza.

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So far, I’ve read one (1) trade scenario. Thanks NineOhTheRino. That’s the one blogger with the courage to put forth a trade scenario. NineOhTheRino’s idea was JJ for T-Mac. I think we could all probably live that one. But surely, out there in this massive blogosphere, there must be SOME OTHER IDEAS about a trade scenario for Joe Johnson.

Look, I know. I realize that most of you want to keep him. I do, too. But the Column Jeff Schultz wrote is about trading him. So, what’s an acceptable trade, that’s also “realistic?” If you bloggers can’t come up with one, then I’d be very surprised by that. This blog seems basketball savvy-enough to at least “float” a few trade scenarios.

For example … should the Joe Johnson trade involve a draft pick or draft picks coming back to Atlanta? Should Atlanta target someone inside the lottery draft and offer JJ? I’m just asking a question. I’m not advocating doing that.

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Swat, Bibby and a vet backup pg? Please. This league is about young and fast pg’s. Rondo, Paul, Parker, Rose, Mo Williams, Deron Williams, etc… All Bibby does is shoots 3’s and cant keep up, or stay with his man, on defense. I’d rather go with Acie over Bibby’s ass. You’ve got to be able to penetrate and dish. Another example, look what Aaron Brooks(young, fast) did to LA the other night. He ran circles around them. The days of the old and slow vet. pg’s are over. And btw, if we go into next season with Bibby and lets see, a guy like Tyronne Lue or Anthony Johnson, I’m going to puke.

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As a Hawks fan, I love Bibby but he needs to go unless he can take a MASSIVE pay cut. The emergence of Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Rajon Rondo and Derrick Rose has shown that you need a quick, dynamic point guard with the ability to penetrate, get in the lane and break down defenses. Bibby can’t do any of these things and his best days were left behind in Sacramento

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3)If you were the coach/GM whom would you want on your team? A player that listens, is coachable, and tries his best to do what you ask? Or a player that doesn’t listen, stubborn, and keeps up drama?

Ayanna: I’m interested in knowing who you are referring to as keeping up drama?

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I’m still in utter disbelief that anyone would suggest trading our only allstar and all-around best player…everyone is titled to their opinion but are you kidding me??!! I guarantee you we would be a lottery team without JJ…

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Terrell Barron, I know Flip’s not a PG – I’m using him as an example of a veteran player that can still play that could make a valuable addition to a playoff team, as he did for the Hawks this year.

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We need new ownership more than anything!

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Listen Jeff, i completely disagree with you. it is not joe who we should trade because then the hawk fans will be furious. the hawk fans never want joe to be traded and at the age of 28, he is still young and will get better as he progresses until he reaches the age of 35 plus. Also Joe is the captain of the team and the hawks run through his presence even when he does not play well. If we are going to trade anyone, it should be acie law because mike woodson has not been using his talents and we could get more money

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I know that the NBA wants to see Kobe-Labron in the finals. Im sure David Stern is clamoring for that matchup. I believe that matchup of Kobe vs Labron would be a dream matchup for the NBA and probably the greatest matchup ever in finals history or certainly one of the top 2 or 3 most compelling matchups ever in the finals. The only problem with that matchup is that 1) it may not come to pass and Kobe and LaBron may BOTH miss getting their rings entirely if Denver or Orlando faces each other in the finals; and 2) If either Kobe or Labron makes the finals but they both fail to be in it at the same time (then NBA ratings will certainly go down if the NBAs two marquee players arent in the finals at the same time). I personally WILL NOT WATCH THE FINALS IF KOBE AND LABRON ARE BOTH NOT IN IT. IF ONE OF THOSE GUYS IS IN IT I DONT WANT TO SEE IT BECAUSE THEIR TEAM WILL WIN and their opposing team is gonna lose. In other words, if Kobes team makes the finals, but Dwight Howards team is not on the other side, Kobes team wins. If LaBron makes the finals, and Carmello Anthony and Chauncy Billips are on the other side, Labrons team wins. I do know for certain that most sportscasters and sports publications have predicted Kobe vs Labron and I would be glued to my tv if that matchup presented itself. Im sure hoping to see it because I believe those two are the top two players currently in the game, with no disrespect to D-Wade. I believe that Wilt Chamberlain vs Kareem Abdul Jabaar was the most compelling matchup ever in finals history and will allways be that as far as Im concerned, but Kobe vs LaBron is certainly in second place if it happens to come to pass.

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For a big guy, Joe Johnson sure is soft. Get a scorer that doesn’t rely so much on floaters!!!

Coincidentally, I’M AVAILABLE!!!!!

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Hawks should move Crawford to the starting guard position, let Joe Johnson go after this year, and sign Bosh and another 6th man.

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