Hawks take a step forward, but leave questions
LeBron James may be headed for a final. Joe Johnson is headed for a summer full of questions. (Curtis Compton/ccompton@ajc.com)
Seven months ago, you would have taken 47 wins.
Seven months ago, you would have taken a playoff series win and a second-round sweep by the possible eventual league champion because that’s more than any Hawks team had given you in 10 years (and it only seemed like 20 years).
In short, it’s OK to feel satisfied with what front offices like to refer to as “incremental progress.”
“It was a good season,” Josh Smith said Monday night. “I’m not going to let a sweep leave a bitter taste in my mouth like last year.”
But when the Hawks lost to Cleveland 84-74 at Philips Arena, they completed a strange postseason that created more questions than positive vibes.
The starting point guard? Mike Bibby was on the bench for most of the third quarter, not exactly positive foreshadowing going into negotiations as he becomes a free agent.
The team’s best player? Joe Johnson, who has one year left on his contract, had another miserable shooting night (7-for-18) and has played only two strong playoff games out of 18 in two years with the Hawks. Take out Game 4 against Boston last year and Game 7 against Miami this season and Johnson has shot only 38 percent from the floor and averaged 16 points.
At what point do you determine: “This is as good as he gets, and this is as good as we get with him”?
Marvin Williams is unsigned. Josh Smith is still a thrill ride. That’s four-fifths of the starting lineup. The only absolute solid and stable piece to keep and build around: Al Horford.
The Hawks won a seven-game series against Miami. But they still showed an ability to get blown out by an opponent almost as often as they did an ability to dominate one.
You want to feel good about this team. But can you?
The Hawks aren’t a great team. They’re a pretty good team at a crossroads, and they’ve never faced a more important offseason.
“I think we can compete against everybody in the league if we believe and we put our mind to it,” Johnson said. “But honestly, I don’t think we believed we could win this series. We came in hoping we could win, not believing.
“It’s going to be an interesting summer. Hopefully we can keep the pieces in place. But this is a business.”
This last game was a marginal step forward from the first three. For one, the defense improved. Secondly, Johnson – whose lack of leadership has been an issue – accepted some blame Monday.
“I probably had my worst playoffs ever, both the first and second rounds,” he said. “We got out of the first round, but I feel like I could’ve done more for my team.”
There’s a tendency when teams are down 3-0 in a playoff series to play hard at the outset but fizzle quickly when the opponent steps it up. Give the Hawks credit. The Cavaliers might have been off their game a little, but Atlanta had chances to fold up and didn’t.
The last year the Hawks had won a playoff series was 1999, and the good feelings that season also didn’t last long. They were swept by the New York Knicks in the second round. General manager Pete Babcock apparently was so distraught that he popped a spring and traded Steve Smith for Isaiah Rider. The rest is inglorious history.
The chances of general manager Rick Sund blowing things up this summer are slim. But it’s startling how much things are up in the air. That’s rare to see when you have such a young team that has shown incremental progress over a period of years.
The team’s next direction is anybody’s guess.
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109 comments Add your comment
sane jane
May 11th, 2009
11:12 pm
Jeff, didn’t the Hawks blow up the Smith/Blaylock/Mutombo situation precisely BECAUSE they couldn’t advance past the second round of the playoffs, always losing to Chicago? (who didn’t?)
Those were above-average-but-not-spectacular teams as I recall.
And it’s taken 10 years just to get back to that. Blech.
sane jane
May 11th, 2009
11:12 pm
first, bizznatches!
brent a.
May 11th, 2009
11:14 pm
It was disappointing to see a hobbled Hawks team in this series. A healthy Al Horford and Marvin Williams could’ve at least made things interesting.
I didn’t really miss Josh Childress at all this season; but, watching Varejao chase down all those rebounds for Cleveland made me think about how well Childress played against Boston last year.
brent a.
May 11th, 2009
11:17 pm
Chicago was done after 1998, the Hawks lost to a Knicks team in 1999 that was more or less on the decline (even though they snuck into the Finals that year, losing to the Spurs, 4 games to 1).
The New Jersey Nets, of all teams, went to two straight finals in the early part of this decade.
The Eastern Conference was weak a decade ago, and the Hawks had a chance to be a contender for several years.
The Hawks blew it 10 years ago, plain and simple. No reason to believe that they will repeat those same mistakes again, until they do.
Dr. Warren
May 11th, 2009
11:37 pm
The Spirit will be satisfied with 2nd-Round playoff exits. Trust me on this one. No major changes will occur.
Dr. Warren
May 11th, 2009
11:40 pm
And I mean, 2nd Round playoff exits for the next few years, if possible. Think about it: if the 30 NBA owners could formally compete in how good a job they do, the Spirit would be at the bottom of the League. Sub-mediocrity admires slightly above-mediocrity.
NUNNA YO BIZZNEZZ
May 12th, 2009
12:09 am
BREAKING NEWS..
FLY ON THE WALL HAS TOLD ME THAT PAUL WESTPHAL IS OF INTEREST OF OUR GM TO MAYBE,AND I REPEAT MAYBE REPLACE MIKE WOODSON NEXT YEAR…
IF,HE DOES NOT SIGN WITH THE KINGS SOON,LOOK FOR RICK SUND TO TALK TO HIM…
CREDIBLE SOURCE..
Steve
May 12th, 2009
12:10 am
Keep Bibby, sign a legit Center, of course re-sign Marvin and see what happens. I think we improve again next year. And call Greece and get Childress back – offer 8 mil. a year. Keep Flip, ditch Moe (even though I like him, not as good as Josh C.).
As far as the rest of the team – I like Solomon Jones – we may need another PG in waiting than Law however. I wouldn’t over pay for Bibby either – he’s headed downhill obviously. Maybe one more year starting, then a great sub. Would re-sign Joe next year, let him finish his career here, but I think he’s seen his better days also.
Draft – Mullen 1st round – Calathes (if he stays in) 2nd.
PD
May 12th, 2009
12:11 am
Unfortunate playoff exit……Great season just make tweaks in the offseason by getting some bigs.
RealSquawk
May 12th, 2009
12:18 am
I am not. And will never be satisfied with a sweep. Not with 20 point losses. I am certain Miami would have given forth more effort.
The fact that Josh Smith is okay with a sweep is disgusting and only adds to my ammo of why he is the trade bait we need to get us a player or players.
Brian H
May 12th, 2009
12:25 am
Horrible team that will never get out of the 2nd round. Not a big surprise since the Hawks have always failed to win anything of importance. Their last division title was in 1994. Which is laughable of it’s self and reflective of just how bad of a franchise the Hawks really are. They’re one of those franchises that you just know will never make any real post season noise as they haven”t in 50 years. Why would that chance now? ESP with the mediocre talent that they currently have.
dude
May 12th, 2009
12:26 am
realsquawk shut the hell up!!
Winstom Wolfe
May 12th, 2009
12:27 am
Send either Josh or Al plus two (late round) #1s to Toronto for Chris Bosh….
…PROBLEM(S) SOLVED.
Joe Johnson's Magic Trick
May 12th, 2009
12:29 am
*disappears*
James
May 12th, 2009
12:37 am
I know the hawks need to rebuild their team cause they are clearly not championship contenders. I would suggest something they may should do during the offseason it sounds good.
first off Mike Bibby is gonna be a free agent after the playoffs for the hawks and as of now he is the highest paid player on the hawks roster. I don’t think they should re-sign him personally this is what they should do.
Rafer Alston will probably be out there for a team to get since Jameer Nelson will be back for the magic next year so the hawks should sign him he is cheap and will be a good pick up.
second off they should trade acie law to Oklahoma city and try to get Earl Watson I like Earl Watson game he just hasn’t been on good teams in his career.
third thing they should trade marvin williams he will never make the hawks any better his game is boring.
forth thing they need to re-sign flip murray.
fifth thing If it’s possible they could make a trade during the draft to try to move up and get center hasheem thabeet from uconn cause he is 7′3 and could be like our next mutombo blocking shots and holding down the middle. If they can get thabeet then they could move al horford back to his natural position which is power forward.
by the way I hope the hawks can get rid of soft joe johnson if they could trade him to golden state for stephen jackson or andris biedrins I would be happy.
craig miller
May 12th, 2009
12:37 am
Bring ‘Nique out of retirement.
Rollins Tree
May 12th, 2009
12:42 am
“I think we can compete against everybody in the league if we believe and we put our mind to it,” Johnson said.
Funny to think that now after being swept by the Cavs. Truth is Johnson misses that champion spirit it takes to lead a team in the playoffs. I hate Wade but Im sure because he was facing the leagues MVP, he would’ve stepped up his game and been a factor for the Heat. Johnson played as if it was just another regular season game and never showed any leader qualities. He spent most of the series hanging his head. Not what a team leader does. Hard to motivate others if you dont believe yourself the team can win.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 12th, 2009
12:46 am
“Marvin Williams is unsigned. Josh Smith is still a thrill ride. That’s four-fifths of the starting lineup. The only absolute solid and stable piece to keep and build around: Al Horford.”
Do you media types watch games, or do you just form opinions about players based on some bullsh*t and never change them? Josh Smith is EASILY the most indispensable, valuable, and talented member of the Hawks’ front court and it’s not even close. First of all, only six months separate the three in terms of age, so it’s not like experience is much of a factor even though Smith entered the league earlier. Secondly, as much as y’all love to blow the occasional dust-ups out of proportion, Josh’s defensive impact and offensive versatility provide the Hawks much more than Al Horford and Marvin Williams have. Horford is a solid defensive player and a good rebounder when he’s not matched up against someone like Ilgauskas who has the size, height and length advantages on him. But he’s always been a mechanical offensive player, and he’s nowhere near the scorer in the post that Josh is right now (not that Josh is anything amazing, but he’s much more fluid and is pretty steady using his left hand). Marvin is barely even in this discussion, as he is still inconsistent at best driving to the basket and is nowhere near aggressive enough on either end of the court to make an impact for games at a time.
Josh already does more than Al statistically, so you’re basically counting on Al to improve his offensive game enough to score 17-18 points per game while sustaining the same defensive impact that Josh has during a game, in order to make the contention that Al is a better piece to build around. Are you really 100% confident that this will happen, or do you really think Josh is that much of a cancer that you would rather have Al with reduced production?
RealSquawk
May 12th, 2009
12:48 am
never will never have.
but i am looking forward to this offseason.
braveshater
May 12th, 2009
12:59 am
Al Horford is anything but a stable piece in the post. I just watched Josh Howard play the entire game on 2 bad ankles, and make more of an impact than Horford has when he is 100%. Gimme a break. Josh Smith is still immature and doesnt understand his strenghts, but he is a undeniable talent that has unlimited potential. Al Horford’s jumpshot is terrible, he has no jump hook, or go to move. I would rather have Anderson Varejo.
Snowman
May 12th, 2009
1:07 am
Congratulations to Mike Woodson and the Atlanta Hawks for a terrific season!!!…Good Luck to Lebron, and I think Cleveland will win the NBA title just like Boston did after beating the Hawks last year…
Nunna Yo Buiness, Westphal, now that is laughable!!!(lol)…Steve, I do like most of your ideas…
gcsu12
May 12th, 2009
1:17 am
The Hawks Offseason:
1) Re-sign Mike BIbby. He is the anchor of the Hawks and provides stability to a sometimes erratic team.
2) Stack the Bench: Re-sign Flip Murray and Mo Evans: They provided a stable yet albeit light bench. Get another center coming off the bench so you can start Pachulia at center, move Horford to PF and Smoove to SF. Also, get Josh Childress back from Greece. Cleveland showed the Hawks how important a deep bench is. When you are 6 deep on the bench and the bench players are actually are actually good, it gives your starters a chance to rest and makes your entire team fresher. This is what the Hawks lacked this season and post-season. They were only 3 deep on their bench.
3) Keep Marvin Williams: Love him or hate him, when he’s not injured he provides the Hawks with another perimeter threat and if he works at it, can be an inside threat. Before he went down he was averaging over 20 points a game for the previous few games. He was on track in his progression and his injury got him out of sync. He can be utilized as a starter or coming off the bench. Don’t dump him yet.
4) Keep this team together: The Hawks are still the 3rd youngest team in the NBA, have increased their win total the past five years, and have made great strides overall. By dismantling this current squad, you risk a loss of chemistry that they have established over the past few years. Go out and get players, but keep the key pieces together (Horford, Johnson, Smith, Bibby, and Williams, as well as Flip Murray). All the pieces are there to establish a championship caliber team, and because they are so young they have time to mature and grow even more.
SomeOfThesePost
May 12th, 2009
1:20 am
Make me think of Robert Deniro in the Fan. Yoooo Bobbby. Its just a game people. Hell we made it to the 2nd round of the NBA playoffs. Got beat down by the LEAGUE and the BEST PlAYER in the LEAGUE. The Hawks have been in the gutter of the NBA for the last 12 years. Now with a LITTLe success you get all these NUT jobs, saying the TEAM or the coach aint this or that. Take Pill n chill. If ur typin NOVELS on a blog you really need to Evaluate who you should take out of YOUR OWN LiFE..GEEEZZZ.
KakNiqueTree
May 12th, 2009
1:20 am
PLEASE, Hawks coaches, put Al Horford at power forward and find something else to worry about for the next ten years, if it means trading josh smith or letting marvin williams go, so be it.
David Smith
May 12th, 2009
1:30 am
This was another disappointing chapter to finish a forgettable series. Cleveland tried their hardest to give us this game an we couldn’t even do that right. Everyone just watches the ball instead of constantly moving and cutting to the hole (except when josh has to shoot another jumper because the shot clock was about to expire). I applaud the players for giving us another exciting season of hawks basketball but, this trend of getting destroyed on the road in the playoffs are unacceptable. Rick Sund will have an busy offseason to prepare for contract extentions (Marvin Williams), Nba draft (i pray that we can a top five pick) and free agency (center should be a priority). Mike Woodson has proven throughout this series that he is not the coach to lead us to a championship (joe would probably hold out without him as coach) but, it may be too late to replace him now that this team has shown some more signs of improvement.
wxwax
May 12th, 2009
1:35 am
Yeah, I think you captured it perfectly, Jeff.
It’s strange to have a young team that’s showing progress… and wonder how much it has to be dismantled in order to take the next step.
Clearly there’s a need for a locker room leader. That alone would have tempered some of this team’s wild gyrations. And obviously there are positional needs too: a big and a point.
But I was thinking the same thing you were. Don’t pull a Babcock and completely demolish this team. Ten years in the wilderness is long enough. Here’s hoping Sund has the touch and the courage to change without destroying.
wxwax
May 12th, 2009
1:46 am
Yup, I think you captured it perfectly, Jeff.
It’s strange to have a young team that’s showing progress… and wonder how much it has to be dismantled in order to take the next step.
Clearly there’s a need for a locker room leader. That alone would have tempered some of this team’s wild gyrations. And obviously there are positional needs too: a big and a point.
But I was thinking the same thing you were. Don’t pull a Babcock and completely demolish this team. Ten years in the wilderness is long enough. Here’s hoping Sund has the touch and the courage to change without destroying.
Birddawg
May 12th, 2009
1:46 am
Everyone is wrong. The only thing the Hawks really need is a coach that can develop all of these young players and build on their strengths. People think Josh Smith is a cancer when in reality, he is probably frustrated at the nonexistent offense the Hawks frequently employ. Joe Johnson has great talent, but goes one on five way too often and instead of drawing the defense and kicking out to open teammates, he will take a bad shot over a bigger help defender. A real coach would have developed all of the extraordinary talent on this team and actually meshed the players into a real team. This team has NBA Championship caliber talent with middle school level coaching and high school caliber leadership.
Mitun
May 12th, 2009
1:49 am
If I am not mistaken, Big Z and Rasheed Wallace could be a Free Agent in the offseason. i want us to retain Bibby, Flip Murray, Childress and Marvin Williams, and Zaza.
the problem that i had with this team is that we don’t have depth off the bench other than Flip and Mo which u want to retain those two guys.
so cavarefic
May 12th, 2009
1:55 am
HAHA DONT FORGET TO TAKE OUT YOUR TRASH YOU DONT WANT THAT DEAD HAWK STINKIN UP YOUR HOUSE
Man in black
May 12th, 2009
2:33 am
Keep all starters and Mo & Flip – get a real 7 -foot center – get Childress back – Za Za is another Jon “Contract” Konkac – for every great hustle play you get 10 stupid missed layups, dropped rebounds, stupid defensive misplays, and he can’t hit a 10-foot jump shot to save his mothers life – he needs to be the 9th man off the bench, not the 6th or 7th – we’ll never get to the finals unless we get a legit big man – imagine – Dwight Howard (or something close) , Horford, Josh, Joe and Bibby as the starters with Marvin then Childress then Flip then Mo off the bench.
Simpdawg
May 12th, 2009
2:46 am
The Hawks need to let Mike Bibby, Speedy Claxton and Marvin Williams walk; sign David Andersen and Josh Childress; resign Zaza Pachulia and Flip Murray and draft the best point guard available with the first pick, or package the first round pick for Ramon Sessions, and draft a center with the second round pick preferably Josh Heytvelt or Garret Siler and hire a head coach who knows how to develop a young point guard and bench.
Fitten
May 12th, 2009
2:49 am
For the last few seasons, the team should have used it’s athleticism to out-run & out-jump every team in the league… but it’s forced to play Mike Woodson’s slow boring ball.
I “love” Bibby, but don’t resign him… he can’t guard/beat Rondo or any young fast guard. Try to trade Marvin for Golden State’s fast Monte Ellis. Start Zaza, so Horford can move to his (and Josh Smith’s) natural position of power forward. Then run & gun.
tony
May 12th, 2009
4:05 am
Here goes! I was totally against the Joe Johnson trade and the Marvin William pick. They both are mediocre ball players to me. I still can’t believe Billy Knight would give up 2 1st round picks for JJ and draft a player(MW) who never started a college game. We should not have sign (out of control) Josh Smith to a long term contract. The guy just isn’t a smart basketball player to me.
I think Rick Sund did a good job in bringing Evans to Atlanta and Murray also help the team at times.
The only thing that I see that will help this team play better basketball would be to hire Kirt Rambis as the next HC. He will bring stability to the team and he will teach Josh Smith how to play the power forward position the right way. Kirt Rambis is a true professional. I believe the players will respect him and buy into his way of coaching. He’s currently the Lakers assist coach and he also help the Lakers win champions during the Majic Johnson era.
We need to draft smarter athletes who have an history of making good decisions on the basketball court. Their FG percentage need to be 50% or higher and they need to shoot at lease 80% from the foul line. If they don’t play with a swagger don’t draft them. That’s my take.
arealvet
May 12th, 2009
4:34 am
Bottom line local fans, next time dont boo King James.
TheAntiMe
May 12th, 2009
5:51 am
King James can freaking bite me! Look for Dwight Howard to make that jerk bleed if the Princess goes prancing around the Orlando Arena as he did at Philips this series.
bibbyyy
May 12th, 2009
5:55 am
Looking forward to next season….
they should keep bibby(but with a not so large amount of contract), then develop their benchwarmers(acie, west, hunter, etc.), keep williams(if he does not get a REALLY breakout season next year, then he’s not compatible with the team,trade him) horford should be back in his natural position(PF). i think the hawks wouldn’t gain the 4th seed next season, cause the east conf teams are getting good(mia, philly, was, chi, ny).. CANT WE GET DWIGHT HOWARD IN THIS TEAM? if we get him next season..BOOM! NBA FINALS BABY!!!LoL
RA
May 12th, 2009
5:56 am
It never ceases to amaze me how fast the popular wind can turn against you. Now, let’s clear, as of five years ago, the Hawks were well on their way to becomming the east coast version of the Clippers. They had no direction, no talent, no depth, and no hope, bottomline. Last year,just four years removed from that, they took Boston to the limit, and this year, they advanced, more than advanced. In those last two games, when a lot of teams would have gone on and phoned it in, they fought tooth, nail, hook and claw against a team that was stronger, deeper, and much more experienced. (And for the record, anyone that thinks that the Heat would have done better is dead wrong. They’d still be cleaning D-wade up with off the court with handy wipes, if the Heat had gotten into the way of the Cleveland express.) Try and understand, as good as Boston was last year, this is the strongest team to come out of the east since another #23 played up in Chicago. The outcome of this series was never in questions. What gets lost is that you had three starters for Atlanta playing with fairly substantial injuries. There’s the added fact that most of these players were playing on a stage that they’d only heard about. So, please, before you start talking about who needs to go and who didn’t show up and who failed, try to look at this series for what it was, valuable experience.
As for what needs to happen now, I don’t think there needs to be any long term decisions made right this second. The emotion of the season is still too fresh. A few weeks down the line, I think Sund will be able to look back over this season and see it for the success that it was, and make objective decisions about who needs to go and who needs to stay.
Now, let me just be clear. to borrow from Smith and Dimitroff, things happen by process. It took time and patience for the Cleveland Cavs to become what they are now. It was a process. I’m satisfied that the process for Atlanta is moving in the right direction, but I also think that great care will be needed if it is to remain on course.
RA
May 12th, 2009
6:02 am
Oh, and Hawks fans, I don’t know which ones of you at Phillips arena got under James’ skin, but good job. It’s always been my opinion that too much aid and comfort have been given to the enemies of our team, by it’s fans. One last thing, Cleveland fans/Atlantan sympathizers of Cleveland, I know it’s not in your nature, but try to show a little class. It might help to remember that your team is just one or two key injuries away from becoming extremely ordinary.
JustaThought
May 12th, 2009
7:20 am
This team is lacking a floor leader big-time. Someone that once the game begins will not only inspire his team mate with his play, but with his emotions as well. I don’t think NO one on this team has what it takes to be the floor leader this teams needs. Joe Johnson is a nice complimental piece,nothing more or nothing less, but he don’t have the balls to lead this team whether he’s healthy or hurt. There has got to be a floor leader, the coach can’t do it from the bench, regardless of who’s the coach. LaBron guys will walk thru a wall for him because they know he will walk thru a wall for them. Keep wishing and hoping Hawks fans, but know this team and organization is so so far from where most of you think they are or should be. Garnett is out in Boston, but you would never know it until you watch them play, but with him being out his guys are fighting to the end.
bob
May 12th, 2009
7:25 am
trade wilkins for a commentator with a command of the english language.
Fire Woodson Express
May 12th, 2009
7:31 am
The problems start with the coach and fall down to the bench. Mike Woodson, Bob Bender all need to go. Keep Larry Drew and can everybody else. These coaches are teaching the game wrong.
Fire Woodson Express
May 12th, 2009
7:40 am
You want a new coach? email Rick Sund and tell him your thoughts.
rick.sund@atlantaspirit.com
also the owner that’s always on the news email address is
michael.gearon@atlantaspirit.com
Email them as fans and tell them we want a new coach, and also give them your thoughts.
chris
May 12th, 2009
7:41 am
I think Woodson may be a good coach, but we still have to replace him. We have to see what this nucleus can do under a different leader. If they still underperform, then we need to at least partially dismantle. Regarding the line up, we obviously have two power forwards (Josh and Al) no center and a good but inadequate point guard. Center is harder to fill, so we should package Al or Josh, plus our #1 pick for the best center we can get. For point guard, we should have Bibby, Law and our 2nd round pick compete for the job – under a new coach who will actually give the youngsters a chance. A line up with an upgraded point guard, JJ at 2, Marvin at 3, Al or Josh at 4 and a true center should be enough to get to the conference finals or maybe beyond. After next year, replace JJ with a draft pick because he will be spent physically.
Teacher
May 12th, 2009
7:43 am
We need a head coach and a leader. Bibby yawning on the bench last night when only down 3? Great respect for your fans that had to pay $60-100 to see you live. Joe…you are tired? Come to work with me you freaking pre-madonna for a month, I’ll show you tired. At least Woodson keeps Smith in the game when he shoots 15% 8 feet and beyond. That helped our chances (as well as your crying EVERY time a whistle blows. Play ball JSmoove, quit crying. My grandmother could have coached this “progress” over the last 5 years. How in the he*# does Woody still have a job? I will always watch this team, but you get what you pay for, from head coach to bench players.
JAMAAL
May 12th, 2009
7:48 am
MIKE WOODSON HAD TAKEN THEM AS FAR AS THEY CAN GO WITH HIM. JOE JOHNSON NEEDS TO GET A MEAN STREAK IN HIM
J
May 12th, 2009
8:03 am
I agree, some of these posts are out there … this team got to the second round, which is an improvement from last season. The fans are now behind this team, and this franchise is moving forward again.
dap01
May 12th, 2009
8:09 am
Good comments Chris.
Is anyone suprised at JJ being ineffective after leading the league in minutes played. It seems that the coach poorly managed to have him ready for the playoffs. Woody is constantly playing for wins in order to pad the record so that he can not be replaced. He plays Bibby while not developing Law. No young player is properly handled by Woody. Joe is run into the ground because if Joe is in the game, Woody don’t have to have a REAL offense. With Bibby and Joe he just hopes for the best. We have a running team but we don’t run.
We need changes everywhere, especially at coach.
Greg
May 12th, 2009
8:16 am
Mike Woodson aint the problem! Our problem is we have to many of the same type players. The only way you let Woody go is if you seriously believe the current make up of this team can win a championship. I like Josh’s athleticism, but he is not the best PF we have AL is. We need a center go get Chris Kaman (Solid defense, rebound, and low post scoring. We need a PG Kirk Hinrich is avaliable ( good defender, penetrates and shoots the 3 very well. If we can’t get him bring back Biiby. Bring back flip and MO Evans.
Fire Woodson Express
May 12th, 2009
8:18 am
Avery Johnson is out there.
Westurd
May 12th, 2009
8:19 am
Here is what the HAWKS needed desperately:
HEART
PASSION
HUSTLE
dap01
May 12th, 2009
8:21 am
We also can not over pay for a point guard that plays little defense and can not penetrate. Bibby is a great person to have on a team but role players don’t get paid max dollars!
Fire Woodson Express
May 12th, 2009
8:23 am
Greg??
Your coach tell you what offense – defense to run, if your damn coach can’t draw up a offense in the offseason and stick to it the whole season, i see that as a problem. Woodson never chages Defenses, And the bench is awful why? Because he has not played them all season then when playoff time comes and everybody is hurt, and you rely on the bench to help you. (That need not happen) Woodson is a awful coach.
Jeff
May 12th, 2009
8:28 am
Anyone who seriously thought the Hawks had a chance of beating the Cavs is living a pipedream. I thought they might steal a game but the only way they would win was for LaBron to foul out or get injured. If you don’t like the coach, the GM, the owner then fine but the Hawks were over matched from the start.
Eric B
May 12th, 2009
8:31 am
Time to “back up the truck.” Of all the Playoff Hawk teams that I have seen over the past 40 or so years, this one has to be the weakest, and the most overpaid for that matter. Poorly Coached also I must add.
J Who?
May 12th, 2009
8:34 am
As is, the Hawks take a step back next season. Cleveland, Boston, Orlando, Philidelphia, and Chicago will all be better than the current version of Atlanta next year. We need to find a way to move “I have no J-Smoove” and Bibby to try and position ourselves to move up in the draft to acquire Rubio. Rubio, Johnson, Marvin, Horford, Pachulia/Free Agent. I believe that is a team that improves upon this season. Mark my words, if we have the same 5 next year our record drops 2-5 games. Whoever gets the Rubio kid improves a minimum 7 games next season.
G State Ben
May 12th, 2009
8:36 am
Walking around a little groggy this morning, so I decided to focus on post playoffs. In a perfect world, I’d like to do the following:
-Sign Brandon Bass (made $826,000 in 2008-09) and Matt Barnes (made $800,000 in 2008-09) in free agency to replace Thomas Gardner and Othello Hunter respectively. We get more experienced and are able to extend the bench another guy to help battle Gilbert and DWade in 2009-10.
-Re-sign Flip (probably going to take $4-5 million or more), Mario ($800K sounds right), Zaza (another $4-5 million) and Marvin (back issue will help teams shy away, should be had for $6-8 million)
-Draft Jeff Teague or Eric Maynor in the 1st and Gonzaga’s Josh Heytvelt in the 2nd.
I don’t believe any of these players will break the bank and you’d actually shed $3 million of overall payroll (when they buy out or trade Speedy’s contract). Trade Josh Childress’ rights and you’ve improved your roster yet again, gotten younger and more skilled and got another athletic big man that is a rugged defender.
Tell Rick Sund I’m available.
Kevin
May 12th, 2009
8:39 am
another season is done what a joke 4-0 to cavs n way they played boston will beat king james ass….and i mean it if orlando plays cleveland in six. play boston celtics in 5games!Look cleveland has no best players behind King James who will be in a NY knick unform soon so enjoy u clevelands Fan your king flys the throne..to NewYork in 2011…
EJH
May 12th, 2009
8:44 am
This off season will be really interesting, right now I think everyone should just wait until after the playoffs and see where we go from here. The first order of Business will be where we pick in the draft, which now looks like 23rd in the first round and 46th in the second round. Will you find a sleeper in the first round like Houston did with Aaron brooks two years ago with the 26th pick in the first round. I hope as a Hawks fan we have good talent evaluators because we cannot start screwing up draft picks. After you finish the draft then you deal with free agency and trades. Antonio McDyess is the one player the hawks really need to attempt to go after he understands he is a role player off the bench but has a winning attitude. Also resign Bibby as a back up and go after Raymond Felton of the Bobcats, because DJ Augustine is going to be there point guard of the future. Bring Josh Childress back, and trade Acie Law, Solomon Jones and the 23rd pick to Portland for Joe Pryzbilla, and resign flip, and Zsa Zsa and I think we are ready to go to the next level.
DCP
May 12th, 2009
8:51 am
Folks, I think you need to keep this team in tact, but get a new coach. What was on display was a lack of “make-it-happen.” Coaches provide Xs and Os, but they also provide inspiration and leadership. Sorry, but Mike isn’t a post season general.
Jim
May 12th, 2009
8:55 am
Congratulations to the Hawks–they made progress this year. That being said, they will not go any further as long as Woodson is the coach and Bibby is the point guard. Look what happened to Denver when they got rid of Iverson and added Billups. Hawks front line is 22, 22, and 23 years old–keep them together and see what happens. What is the problem with Law? After 2 years nobody knows whether he can play or not. Sad.
Fire Sale
May 12th, 2009
9:01 am
The Hawks need to have a fire sale. Zaza Pachulia isn’t cutting it and Josh Smith seems to only be able to dunk or lay the ball up. I would like to see these two gone. Why did we pass on Chris Paul again????
Veteran Fan
May 12th, 2009
9:12 am
Congratulations to the Hawks on a very good season! The critical game three of this series was decided by the officials and some very good shooting by Lebron James. The officiating was so bad in game three, I had to check the color on the cavalier uniforms. The entire night I thought they were wearing boston green! Having said that it is time to make the moves to win it all. Please package a trade for Chris Bosh as he wants out of Toronto and we desparately need a consistent low post scorer. Josh can do that, but he doesn’t seem to understand that his game is movement and playing above the rim not standing around twenty feet from the basket. We struggle on offense when he vanishes and his defender backs off and clogs the lane. Put together a mega deal with Toronto of Josh, Law, Marvin, Pachuglia, and Morris for Bosh and Calderon or Bosh and their first round pick to try and get Thabeet! Resign Bibby and use other first round pick to choose future starting point. Bosh, Thabeet, Jones, and Horford would be an unbelievable rotation up front. Joe moves to three and rotate Flip, Mo, and Bibby at one and two. Use second round pick for shooting guard. If they are really serious, make a run at Ben Gordon for the two spot! Do like Rambis for coach but may be impossible to do at this time! Woodson good coach but ignores offense too much, but maybe trading half the team solves the problem!
Gumbo
May 12th, 2009
9:13 am
Anyone who wants to join Mr. Schultz on his “fantasy tour” about how good the Hawks are should take a deep breath and plug in the tape of last nite’s second quarter.
I didn;t believe even THIS Team could execute that horribly in a half-court offense.
Don;t change this Team, though. It is a quite appropriate representation of the ATL. All flash, no substance. All me, no Team. All streetball, no basketball.
Made a ton of money on these losers this year. They never win big games – SOOOOOOO easy to bet this bunch.
Go Falcons……
BYC
May 12th, 2009
9:22 am
Josh Smith has shown he has the potential to be the team’s best player if he plays right. Either work on your jumper hardcore or stop shooting them. I wish he would take Lebron’s “drive in and score or get fouled” mentality, he’s certaintly athletic enough. I really don’t think he respects the opinion of Woodson and that is a very big problem. It is also obvious from watching the games that Woodson could be motivating his team to do things much better. Lack of defense, poor rebounding, poorly timed technicals, poor execution, poor timeout usage, poor consistency, players not playing to their strengths. To me these things seem to point to the coach.
George
May 12th, 2009
9:23 am
Joe Johnson was awful in these playoffs. Not worthy of his max deal whatsoever. He looked like a he was playing in syrup…sluggish, slow.
This team unfortunately has reached it’s apex. Everyone else in the east save Boston (then again thier young guys can play) is just as young as the Hawks are… and they are better.
Billy Kinght Set this team back YEARS by passing on needs to keep drafting guys who play the same posisition. Josh Smith is frustrating yes because he’s inconsistant… but the guy obviously cares and has the talent.
Joe Johnson and Mike Bibby are products of Billy Knight failing to address issues in the draft.
The Hawks are without a young stud point guard which kills them. They have too many players at the same position.
They have a lot of guys who consistantly throw up bricks.. but almost no one other than Josh to cut to the basket.
Far to many misses at the top of the draft… and now this team is in that mediocre NBA 45 win 5 6 7 8 seed purgatory and washing out in the NBA playoffs first round every single year for several years until they blow it up.
Unfortunately… this is as good as this team gets… they are young, but without a REALLY GREAT 2 guard and a very good point that is youthful and can distribute… they might as well not play the season
Shawn
May 12th, 2009
9:29 am
Jeff .. you’re right .. a year ago we would have accepted a 47 win season & a 2nd round advancement in the playoff .. but these playoffs exposed a lot of issues w/ the Hawks ..
Hawks need leadership .. You can’t call out players needing heart if you haven’t had a consistent playoff Round 1+ 2 .. Joe only showed up Game 7 (Heat) & Game 3 + 4 (Cavs) .. This series Joe was severely out played .. he had more turnovers (11) than free throw attempts (10) and you’re talking about having heart .. Elimination game you scored 18 points .. you are my FRANCHISE .. Delonte West (Cavs’ 3rd option) had 21 ..
Hawks need veterans .. everyone is not on the same page .. Coach can only say but so much to Josh .. teammates need to grab him at times ..
Hawks need a point .. your point is your floor general .. Bibby came in last year facilitating the offense getting Horford involved on screen and rolls .. that went away this year .. Joe had to facilitate .. too much perimeter offense ..
Ken Strickland
May 12th, 2009
9:30 am
DAVENPOOP-You know as well as I do, some people will always single out a specific player, focus on his perceived shortcomings and blame him for everything that’s gone wrong. Detroit Pistons GM Joe Dumars was able to easily put a championship team together by acquiring unwanted players that fans and other GM’s thought of in that way(like RWallace, CBillups, BWallace, AMcDyss and RHamilton).
The Alanta Hawks simply don’t have a system or a mentality in place that understands or even cares about the importance of alloting time, energy and effort into developing young players for the future. Any development seen in any of our young players is the result of that players off season work. We’ve had no player start a season showing his off season improvements and getting better as the season progresses.
Joe Johnson is a much better basketball player than he’s been able to show. He’s just not the one on one player he’s been forced to become in order to lead the Hawks. Woodson’s OFF system just doesn’t make it easy for players like MWilliams, ALaw, JSmth or AHorford to maximize their abilities by playing to their strengths. For example:
(1)JSmith spent an entire off season working on his post up gm with maybe the most profilic post player in NBA history, the legendary Hakeem the Dream. Logic and common sense says you take advantage of his improved interior OFF by adding an OFF package that consistently puts him on the low block. However, Woodson’s OFF system consistently has him on the perimeter where he’s left to hoist ill advised long range jumpers. Woodson’s solution to preventing Smoove from taking ill advised jumpers is to berate, and in certain cases punish, his PG’s for passing the ball to him, even though he’s open and they are often passing out of double teams. Smoove has proven to be one of the NBA’s premier shotblockers. Yet, Woodson’s switching DEF system puts him out on the perimeter trying to guard the DWades, KBryants and KJames of the league instead of being near the lane using his shotblocking prowess to defend the basket.
(2)In one off season, Marvin Williams has extended his range out to the 3pt line without sacrificing accuracy and noticeably improved his overall DEF and ability to drive to the basket. He still has very limited one on one skills, yet Woodson’s OFF system has him in one on one situations regularily. There’s nothing in Woodson’s OFF that resembles the motion and back screens of the Detroit OFF that’s made RHamilton so dangerous, as well as a multiple Allstar. Marvin’s size, strength, accuracy and ability to come off screens instantly pop up with that jumper would make him unstoppable in that type of OFF.
(3)Al Horford is a beast. He has a very accurate midrange jumper, but he reluctly takes it mostly as a bailout wnen the shot clock in winding down or he’s unguarded 10-12 ft from the basket. There are no screens, movement or plays designed to allow him to consistently use that accurate midrange jumper to draw his man and/or the DEF out of the lane.
(4)Mike Bibby is OFF limited to being a long range jumpshooter. Most HC’s bring one dimensional players off the bench as 6th men, especially if their DEF is as nonexistent as Bibby’s.
(5)Joe Johnson should play off the ball instead of handling it so much. This would prevent teams from doubling him so easily. We should take advantage of his size, ballhandling and passing skills, and teams willingness to double him, by consistently posting him on the block. He’d get more assists, other players would get more open scoring opportunities and he’d draw more fouls and get to the FT line more often.
The Hawks shouldn’t have just one OFF philosophy, especially if it’s based on halfcourt. We should be an uptempo OFF that always pushes the ball and goes into our halfcourt OFF when we can’t get an open scoring opportunity in transition. We should have different OFF sets that caters to the strengths of the player(s) you want to feature or the ones that have the best matchup advantages.
By NBA standards, we have a smallish frontline. Therefore, our DEF philosophy should use our speed, quickness and atnleticism to keep players out of the lane and collapse on the ball if it does get inside. Defensively we want to force teams to beat us from the outside and offensively we want to force teams to stop our transition OFF.
BOTTOMLINE, WE NEED SOMEONE THAT UNDERSTANDS WHAT IT TAKES TO GET THE MOST OUT OF OUR YOUNG PLAYERS AND TEAM. THAT SOMEONE HAS TO BE INNOVATIVE, KNOWLEDGEABLE AND COGNESCENT ENOUGH TO RECOGNIZE THE STRENGTHS OF HIS INDIVIDUAL PLAYERS AND DESIGN A SYSTEM THAT FITS THE TALENTS OF THOSE PLAYERS. WE’VE HAD MORE THAN ENOUGH OF A HC THAT’S MARRIED TO A SYSTEM AND INSISTS ON FORCING HIS PLAYERS INTO HIS SYSTEM, REGARDLESS OF THE RESULTS.
Having said all of that, overall, we had a very successful season. I congradulate all of the Hawk players for overcoming all of the adversity that made their accomplishments more difficult(like overcoming the loss of 3 key starters during the season for extended periods of time). TO ALL HAWK PLAYERS, JOB WELL DONE AND THANK YOU ALL.
Brian
May 12th, 2009
9:30 am
Too bad Chris Bosh signed with Toronto for more money.. Send Josh Smith, and Bibby north for Bosh. Could you imagine Bosh and Johnson. Bring Chris Bosh to Atlanta…
KLEVER
May 12th, 2009
9:33 am
Everytime I read someone post something about signing a legit center I can’t but wonder where they think the Hawks are going to get one from. They are few and far between in the league these days. Who would be available? If by legit you mean someone who can rebound and play defense an intimidator inside then I agree. But once you get past Yao and Dwight Howard there is much to speak of in the NBA when we talk about legit center.
cmd
May 12th, 2009
9:34 am
Congratulations to the Hawks. Last night’s game was a huge improvement over Saturday’s – they showed a lot more hustle and willingness to push in on the defense – and they even made LeBron lose his cool. That alone was worth the hefty price we paid for the tickets.
PMC
May 12th, 2009
9:39 am
Very good season for the Hawks, I’m proud they played hard last night…
The sad thing.. Marvin Williams.. #2 pick in the draft… he’s not even close to being as good a player as Al Harrington.
Josh Childress yeah he’s playing mediocre in Greece. Lottery Pick
The Landlord… um… no comment. Lottery Pick.
Why the hell were any of these guys drafted?
From Cleveland ...
May 12th, 2009
9:43 am
Reading these comments out of curiousity as to what Hawks fans think of your team, thought I’d throw in an outsider’s perspective, FWIW.
Watching the Hawks under playoff pressure, it seems like they desperately need an playoff-experienced veteran leader. I didn’t see anyone out there who wanted the ball or was willing to sacrifice his body in crucial situations. Johnson looks too meek. Josh Smith, as unbelievably athletic as he is, really looks like he needs a mentor to help him grow up on the court. I’m thinking of Game 3, when he stood petulantly in the back court a few times after thinking he should have gotten a foul call, instead of running back and defending – is that going to help yo with the referees or jut tick them off? And you have to share the ball against a good defensive team. And I realize that the Hawks had big men injured, but jacking up lots of early outside shots against a team that closes defensively so well plays right into their hands … that’s probably more of a personnel issue that has to be fixed. Anyway, that’s what I saw.
otisfirefly
May 12th, 2009
9:44 am
Trade Horford, Solo, and all draft picks to Magic for Dwight Howard!
Bob Caffey
May 12th, 2009
9:58 am
The Hawks are a good team, but they do not have anyone who can take over a game. Joe Johnson is a good ballpayer but he is not the ultimate go to guy. He can be stopped quite easily! Josh Smith is one-dimensional. People say he has all the potential and a tremendous upside, however he is like Dominique in his early years; a Dunker. Josh needs to spend more time working on his outside game instead of dunking and trying to please the crowd. Keep Bibby and Hortford!
Edwin Richardson
May 12th, 2009
9:59 am
1. Would someone please teach Horford how to shoot a basketball. Opposing defenses allow him to shoot whenever he gets the ball, and who can blame them? Teams don’t have to have a superstar center to win in the NBA (ie., current Celtics, Cavaliers, Nuggets, etc.)but they do have to have someone who forces the opposing big guy to play defense.
2. Bibby can shoot and is a decent passer. But he can’t drive to the basket. This lack adds to the Hawks’ offensive inconsistency and tendency to go flat for long periods.
3. The Hawks are at a point where to improve they are going to have to take some risk and pull off a trade. Who to pull out of the bait bucket? Joe Johnson
Stix
May 12th, 2009
10:06 am
I believe the Hawks improved, but not enough to keep all the pieces together. Sure the Cavs are better then us, but are they that much better to blow us out and yes i am saying blown out even though we lost by 10. we had plenty of chances to hold our small lead but or lack of shooting cost us once again. Josh Smith has great potential, but i dont think that it needs to be here in ATL, who’s team is this Josh or Joe? I would also question Joe’s playmaking ability, he beats his man but then goes so deep in the lane that he looses the ball what ever happened to the easy 12 foot pull up jumper come on Joe we know you are better. also Mike Woodson should get 15 games to prove himself next season and then release him as well he is not a motivating coach and with a young team you need that. Let’s see what we can do in the off season to improve more we can’t be satisfied with winning 1 more playoff game then last year.
Shannon
May 12th, 2009
10:07 am
The Atlanta Spirit group has to be the worse owners in any major sports. They are happy with medicore! Do the right thing and get rid of Woodson or this boy will not renew his season tickets…. mark my word!
Jack Bruce
May 12th, 2009
10:19 am
I don’t know why we are so distraught with the Hawks. We went 11 games into the playoffs, Cleveland has only gone 8.
Ellis St. John
May 12th, 2009
10:26 am
Mike Woodson seems like a great guy and all, but I think it’s time for a change (Larry Brown has a spot for him). It doesn’t take a basketball expert to realize that the Hawks have zero offense. Just run and gun, one on one, or ISO for Joe Johnson. All of our key guys have either regressed (Smoove, Acie, Zaza) or plateaued (Joe, Marvin, Al). There is absolutely no development of the young players with potential (Solomon, Mario) and Woodson runs his starters ragged ( Joe is one of the league leaders in minutes per game). I don’t understand this team’s schizophrenic nature of looking like “world beaters” one game, and complete scrubs the next. No consistency what-so-ever. A lot of that is due to coaching.
Woodson is not the sole purpose for this team’s demise. Ownership and Billy Knight deserve a lot of the blame too (I’m withholding judgment on Rick Sund until further notice). Sure it’s been said ad nauseum, but we missed on Loul Deng, Andre Iguadala, Chris Paul, Deron Williams and Brandon Roy. And all these guys were clear picks at the time (I’m over the Chris Paul pick now, but the very next year you take Sheldon Williams over Brandon Roy when we clearly needed a point/combo guard ……… inexcusable).
Changes in the offseason:
1. The coach has to be a great TEACHER as well as a motivator (Mark Jackson anyone),
with an actual offensive philosophy and basketball identity.
2. Let Mike Bibby and Marvin Williams walk and use that money to bring in the best Center
and young point guard available.
3. Al has to move to his natural position (power forward). Everyone’s killing the Hawks about
their lack of rebounding, but their front court is atrociously undersized. Horford looks like
an elf compared to the Zadraunus’ and Oden’s and Gasol’s of the NBA.
4. Keep Smoove, but also move him to his natural position of small forward. Yes he’s erratic,
but I would like to see how he progresses under proper NBA tutelage.
5. Re-sign Flip
6. Sign as many mid-level to low-level salary VETERANS (enough already with these
D-League cats making up your bench).
7. The Hawk’s first pick should be in the late teens to early twenties. If Tye Lawson is still
on the board (under-sized and all), YOU TAKE HIM. Mark my words … Tye Lawson is
a future All-star. Remember the knock on Chris Paul … (he’s under-sized). How many
people are saying that now?
Lebron James and Co. end Hawks’ season | Culture Surfing
May 12th, 2009
10:31 am
[...] let the AJC’s Jeff Schultz drive home the point: At what point do you determine: “This is as good as he gets, and this is as good as we get with [...]
bigeasy830
May 12th, 2009
10:32 am
Najeh Davenpoop, Jeff Shultz never thought much of the Hawks, just read his articles from the preseason. He thought the hawks would not make the play-offs. He believes more in an unproven falcons team than the Hawks who have improved each year and from reading most of his articles he does seem to have disdain towards J-Smoove. So it is what it is. The media in Atlanta seem happier when the team sucks so they can say I told you so, but make all kinds of excuses for the falcons and the Braves. The hawks made the play-offs for the second straight year but get very little credit from the Atlanta media. Wait until next preseason, Shultz will exclaim that the hawks will suck again. It may have been a surprise to him that the Hawks had a good season, but to fans like myself that went to the arena and suffered through the 13-69 season, we have seen the progress of this team. And yes, we understand the dysfunctional front office situation and yes it is hard to believe in a coach with the winning percentage of Coach Woodson , but if you have seen the progress with an objective point of view, You have to believe that what we suffered through in this sweep is growing pains for a team that may take it all the way.
Mark
May 12th, 2009
10:34 am
We need to resigned Marvin Williams, and signed back Josh Childress. Childress is great offensive rebounder and he would be solid player back on the Hawks. If we don’t sign back Mike Bibby, we should signed Stephen Curry, he will be a great addition as the starting point guard. He can score, pass, read the defense to create plays, and play defense. Also, the Hawks need to make a major trade for a real big man to move Horford to his natural “power forward” position. And the Hawks need more of a productive bench to keep up with the elite teams of the NBA.
All I''m Saying Is...
May 12th, 2009
10:39 am
The job of the GM (and the scouts) is to find the pieces that a team needs despite what some may believe to be is hard or difficult to do. Hawks need a legit center and a point guard who can penetrate and dish and play stout defense.
Joe Dumars did what needed to be done when he took a chance on Rasheed Wallace (who he obtained from the Hawks by the way) and Billups (who was drafted originally by (and given up on by) Rick Pitino in Boston)
So now it is time for Rick Sund to step up. He proved many of us wrong when we lost Josh Childress and did not miss a beat thanks to Flip Murray. Now, he HAS to get us a big man in the middle to defend because Cleveland was driving through the lane at will in this series.
If we put a legit big man down there (does not have to be a star (like Tyson Chandler who if healthy would be perfect for us and NO obviously wants to unload his contract)— could be an Eric Dampier or Diop type), then Al can play the Power Forward slot he is better suited for and Josh can be a beast at Small Forward (assuming he works on a consistent 12-15 foot jump shot during the off season and never takes another three in his life with the Hawks).
Next, we sign an uptempo point guard. I like the idea of going after Rafer Alston. If Bibby will take less, then re-sign him as we need his outside shooting and he can work in a guard rotation although he is a defensive liability.
We do these two things, then we are set. Woodson is in the last year of his deal next year and we let him finish his contract. He showed what he could do with a legitimate point guard for a full season (with Bibby) and then he can show us what he can do when he has all the pieces. If we don’t show continued improvement, then we bring in another coach. Pretty simple to me.
Thoughts?
Hawks73
May 12th, 2009
10:47 am
I am happy not ecstatic that the Hawks advanced to the 2nd round. The fact that they were extended by a inferior Miami team to seven games was not great. Presumably, they should have taken care of business in six, but that was “hope” talking. The Cleveland series was an embarrassing joke (as well as all of the road defeats – including Miami). Here’s why…THEY DIDN’T COMPETE!
They were too satisfied with last years accomplishments against Boston and that led to this year’s playoff lapses. They figured, we took care of the world champs last year at home therefore we can rest on the road. That translated to the helter skelter play in first round (hammering road losses without competing and just enough at home)and the Cleveland debacle. I know that any team that truly has/had a desire to compete would have played the Cavs with a lot more vigor and made them fight for every point/possesion/game, but hey that’s just “hope” talking.
truth-serum
May 12th, 2009
10:53 am
Good article Schultz.
As ive said all season long the Hawks need a center. With no scoring threat in the low post it makes it easy to double and triple Joe. Even the teams best slashers Josh and Marvin will be force to outside shooting because we cant control the middle. Truth is that Z may be a nice man be he is no threat or intimidator in the post. We need a center to first stop other teams from running down our throats at will. He must alter shots (like mutombo did in his younger days) and intimidate and force the other team to become jump shooters. Dont whine to me that there arent enought true centers becauser there are. The Hawks just need to man up and get one. Look at any of the four finalist and youll see you cant just run down their throats like teams do us with Z. Our center must not be a turnover waiting to happen, sorry snowman, and he must be capable of 12-16 points in the post and athletic enoungh to run the floor with our horses. He doesnt have to be a superstar
but he must AVERAGE 14-18 rebound per game. If we get that we will be in every game and im sure Coach Woody would win the majority of the close ones.
What this would mean to the team is that would take the heat off of Joe, allow us to penetrate for high percentage shots, gives us versatility on the rotations and scare teams with our break potential.
In the off season Josh, and Marvin must work on the shooting. J smoove, marv,flip and horford….and JJ. Those are the untouchables. Every one else is trade bait.
Snowman
May 12th, 2009
10:55 am
…”You want to feel good about this team. But can you?”…My main man Jeff Schultz (please, please, please AJC find something else for Schultz to do next year like deliver the newspapers…c’mon this guy has been murdering the Hawks and Woody all year…what’s up with that?)…
Hell yeah, I FEEL GREAT ABOUT THE HAWKS THIS SEASON!!!…
1) Won 47 games
New GM (and a front office still trying to get it together)
2) 33-10 a Home
3) Despite no draft picks
4) Despite no Trade deadline moves to help the team
5) Loss Chill (got Flip and Mo however know one knew how good Flip was going to be or he would not have been on his way to play in Russia…literally)
6) Did not sign a BIG in the off season and don’t call Morris a BIG, p-l-e-a-s-s-e!!!…
7) Players were injured for chunks of season (Marvin, Josh and Al)
9) They won a terrific game 7 in the ATL and a critical game 4 in Miami
10) They over came Josh Smith doing whatever he wants to do and not playing within the system (sorry Josh but it is true, you are a smart guy however your basketball IQ is HORRIBLE!!!)
In spite it all there were ONLY 8 teams left as of yesterday and Atlanta was one of them. Now, did the others have those kind of circumstances happen to them as well, that are still left (Houston has had some injuries, but they obviously has had some nice talent on that bench)?…Nate McMillen was being raved about this season, how did they look in the playoffs?…Larry Brown, the HOF (and I love me some Larry) had Charlotte rolling and they faded big-time down the stretch and fell short of the Playoffs…and Byron Scott and Chris Paul lost by 60…that’s right 6-0 in the playoffs to Denver (smile)!!!…
So to say the Hawks and coach Woodson did NOT have a good year, well you all are just Hatin and I really, really don’t know why?…
Jeff, you are the KING of the haters!!!…There are so many great angles and approaches you could take that is positive about these guys however you chose to take the path you take. Shame on you sir, shame on you!!!…
These other folks are just fans who do not know any better (affectionately known as Morons…Fire Woodson Express, Teacher, Jamal, Dap01, etc.) but you get paid to do this and are given a forum, and I believe you should and do know better…I just can’t figure out why?…I must admit I just started reading your articles and the blogs in Jan/Feb, but obviously you have some agenda, I just don’t know what it is?…does anyone else know what that agenda is?…
If we are lucky next season you won’t be covering the Hawks. Go do something you enjoy doing or writing for something that you enjoy so you can say positive things vs. writing negative things all the time. That just gets old and boring, doesn’t it?….
Good season to The Hawks, The Fans, The Coaches and the Owners…I TRULY BELIEVE THE BEST IS YET TO COME FOR THE HAWKS!!!…
O'brien
May 12th, 2009
10:57 am
First of all, congratulations to the Hawks. They improved greatly from last year’s team. 10 more wins, and a first round playoff victory.
That being said, I agree with Ken Strickland. It doesnt matter what player we bring in, Woody will force them to play to his system (whatver that is), rather than changing the system to fit the players. In my opinion, Woody has done all he can do, and has taken the Hawks as far as he can take them.
This may be a bad example, but I think if Mike Vick was playing for Mike Smith, we would have seen much better results. But Gregg Knapp and Jim Mora kept trying to change Mike Vick to fit their system, as opposed to changing their system to fit Mike Vick. And I think it’s the same situation with Josh Smith.
The Hawks took a step forward, but unless we make some changes, I think we will see the same results next year (or maybe even take a step back).
GomerPyle
May 12th, 2009
10:58 am
The Hawks had a good season and just came up short of having a great season. In the regular season the Hawks come up just 3 games short of having a 50-win season which would have been considered having a banner year, but when you finish with 47 wins, it appears to some that you came up short from having an outstanding season. At the start of the year, if you had told me the Hawks would lose Josh Childress and still win 10 more games in the regular season, plus win their opening round playoff series, I would have said I’ll take it. But the Hawks feel like they can play with Cleveland, Boston, Orlando and the Lakers, the NBAs elite and I think the reason for the Hawks getting ousted from the playoffs has more to do with confidence and aggressive play, which the Hawks didnt have for most of the series against Cleveland, which were replaced with sloppy play, turnovers and lack of conidence. The Hawks could have won both games at Phillips which would have tied the series. But the Hawks played listless ball with zero confidence in both games at Phillips and it showed all during the game. Bibby was a non-factor last night and Josh Smith continued to dribble the ball downcourt and turn it over. Smith seems to have that routine down pat. He will receive the ball from in bounds dribble down the court and cough it up to the opposing team instead of letting Mike Bibby run the offense. Whose fault is that? It must be a coaching problem because Mike Woodsen needs to make certain that it doesnt happen and he is allowing that to take place multiple times in a crucial playoff game. Its sickening for me to watch it and Im sure there must be some upset fans today. Also where was Mike Bibby last night? Statisticians kept saying that Bibby was averaging 15 points in the playoffs. Where was Bibbys 15 points? If we had gotten 15 from Bibby the Hawks win the game last night and stay alive. It ridiculous because there is no continuity to the Hawks and there is absolutely no cohesiveness with regard to an offensive game plan. When the Hawks go on offense, THEY HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA OF WHAT THEY ARE GOING TO RUN. Its absurd to watch it and Im sure this problem must get fixed soon if Mike Woodsen is to keep his job. When Cleveland had the ball on offense it was clear what they were trying to accomplish. Either Mo Williams, Delante West or LaBron James would knife through the defense and go for the rim (layup) or someone would hit an open jumpshot after the players find the open guy. This is team basketball which is something the Hawks know nothing about. I feel like the Hawks should give back their paychecks for the playoffs and donate the money to charity because it was a disgraceful performance from top to bottom, including the Miami series where the Hawks were blown out in each loss.
heartofdarkness
May 12th, 2009
11:00 am
Hold your horses, my friends. Don’t construct next year’s team until you know the script the NBA thinks will put fannies in the seats in 2010. The economy will likely turn down again after the stimulus rush subsides. History says, in tough times, the masses want more violence. That scenario playing out, I’d monitor the NFL training camps for quick, long 280 lb. defensive ends and a couple run stuffing MLBs. Anybody watching the Cavalier series knows these Hawks can’t tackle and are shy about hitting the drivers over the middle. Is Jack Tatum still available?
STRETCH
May 12th, 2009
11:08 am
He has taken this team as far as they can go now. He’s lost the players and the fans have taken notice.
Woody needs to go. This team would have probably played a little better if Woodson would have know how to utilized the bench. As a fan of basketball, watching the team play on TV, I could tell Joe Johnson was worn out. Common sense tells me that if my star player is and has been double-teamed all playoffs, then he’s burning extra energy trying to battle through it all.
Then when he didn’t have a choice, the reserves have to come in and play but they are lost as soon as they get on the court. I understand that during the pre-season and practice you evaluate players and that ultimately determines the roster and depth, but some players perform better under certain situations. Some guys play better than they practice.
Either way, you wont win ANY games if your offense goes 5, 6 and 7 minutes without a basket, not only once but multiple times a game!
1. Josh Smith is probably the dumbest and selfish NBA player out there right now and he should that during the playoffs while constantly hurting his team. I know he’s an extreme talent, but that’s all he is. NOTHING UPSTAIRS!
2. If Bibby stays around next year, he should really take a look at his performance during the post season and offer to take a pay cut freeing up some money that will help the team move forward and pick up some help in the backcourt.
3. Joe Johnson needed help, and rarely got it. When Joe goes AWOL, then its shoot by committee. And we all saw, when the shots don’t fall, the Hawks fall.
4. ZaZa’s a great hustler, but cant hold on to the ball and when he does, he misses too many easy layups. They need to do whatever it takes and get a legit big man also.
5. Keep Flip/Mo and trade Josh Smith for a big(Camby), and another bench player and see how much better and smarter this team gets.
BillyWhiteShoes
May 12th, 2009
11:12 am
Here’s the plan:
1) Let Bibby go!! We need a PG that can run a team for less than $15m. He’s just a decent scorer, not a distributer.
2) Sign Raymond Felton. He can run a team.
3) Renegotiate JJ’s contract at a slightly lower base, but lock him in until he’s 33.
4) Sign and trade Marvin for Tyson Chandler
5) Resign Flip
6) Move Al to 4 and Josh to 3
7) Sign the best jumpshooter available in free agency or trade the 1st rounder
Your lineup: PG Felton, SG Johnson, SF Smith, PF Horford, C Chandler
Bench: C/PF Zsa Zsa, PG Flip, SG/SF Murray, SG/SF Free Agent Shooter
earldaddy
May 12th, 2009
11:13 am
The team doesn’t need to be blown up. MOST of the pieces are there, but in the wrong place.
C Zaza (needs big man camp this summer, to learn to finish, and lift weights – matter of fact, the whole team needs to lift)
PF Al
SF JSmoove (needs a hypnotist to keep him from shooting outside of 15 feet)
SG Joe
PG Bibby (at a discount)
Bench
C (need to find one, a huge shotblocker)
PF (need another veteran big, a bruiser), Solo
SF Marvin, Chilz (he wants to get back, trust me)
SG Mo
PG Flip, Acie
BillyWhiteShoes
May 12th, 2009
11:14 am
Oh yeah, the new policy of the franchise should be to deduct $100k from Josh’s salary everytime he attempts a jump shot outside of 10ft.
BillyWhiteShoes
May 12th, 2009
11:17 am
Another random thought:
Shaun Livingston’s knees should be healed by next season. He is definitely worth a minimum contract.
earldaddy
May 12th, 2009
11:18 am
Felton and Johnson in the backcourt doesn’t work with that lineup. Who out there except Joe can shoot? We need Bibby or another PG like him who is a 3 point threat.
In my lineup the front court can’t shoot, but they don’t need to be outside, and they can all run.
The bench is superstrong with Dark, Chilz, Flip and Mo, plus a big. I like the Tyson Chandler thing though, if we could afford him and move Zaza to the bench. Too bad we can’t. But maybe with a buyout of Speedy?
Snowman
May 12th, 2009
11:41 am
Truth-Serum, I understand your point about the center position but I disagree about Josh Smith (being an untouchable). I would trade Josh for Chris Bosh in a heart beat (and throw something in if need be). That would take care of the center issue…
Thanks for having my back all season…have a good and safe off season my man!!! (smile)…
J Who?
May 12th, 2009
12:02 pm
We need Rubio….whatever it takes to get him here short of Al Horford and Joe Johnson. Package a deal to move up to take RUBIO in the draft. The kid is young and experienced and will be a ALLSTAR point guard.
Real Hawks Fan
May 12th, 2009
12:21 pm
why is everyone dogging Joe, the truth is, there’s no offense being ran for the best player(Joe), not enough screens or picks, he’s being doubled and sometimes even tripled, with that being said, the hawks need a big or two and a point guard who can break down any defense, that’s what will make them better, let’s not forget they were banged up, however it does hurt to see the hawks lose in that fashion. Keep the core together, and get the right pieces around your best player. There is a need for players to cut down on the doubles that Joe sees.
Syd
May 12th, 2009
12:46 pm
Woodson needs to put a shock collar on Jsmoove. Watching him shoot from outside 10 feet makes a person cringe. Good job this year Hawks. Keep improving.
law dawg
May 12th, 2009
1:08 pm
all respect due to bibby, the hawks should let him go and sign jarrett jack as the next point guard. he’s young and is just entering his prime.
BillyWhiteShoes
May 12th, 2009
1:49 pm
I agree with Syd. I’ll take the job of shocking him everytime he gets 3 ft away from the paint.
truth-serum
May 12th, 2009
2:17 pm
I couldnt have enjoyed you more Snow! I’ve gained a lot from you. You are a class act. I appreciate you. I do however slightly and underlines the word slightly disagree with you on the Jsmoove trade. If he develops his mid-long range shots he will be a monster. He’s not bad now. Working on that shot (remember he’s straight out of high school) will make him a superstar. Chris Bosh is good but still light in the pants. Never the less. If you are the GM and you call that shot I’m with you. Bosh it is. Question is can Bosh defend the middle. We know that he can finish and keep his man at home so he doesn’t rotate out to Joe… we know he can run…but can he shut down the lane which is a green light thoro-fare under Z
truth-serum
May 12th, 2009
2:31 pm
Snowman
May 12th, 2009
10:55 am
New GM (and a front office still trying to get it together)
9) They won a terrific game 7 in the ATL and a critical game 4 in Miami
10) They over came Josh Smith doing whatever he wants to do and not playing within the system (sorry Josh but it is true, you are a smart guy however your basketball IQ is HORRIBLE!!!)
Another great post! Did you rip J-hate-Schultz or what? The reason Josh was doing what he will was in part because of the devisive article Schultz wrote trying to stir venom between Josh and Woody so he could get Woody fired. Looks like Woody looked right over Schultz. Some times you have to do that.
Lets check in over the off season as the trade are made and the team develops. At some point we have to take in a game together. Heres to you! Thanks for being there!~!
JustaThought
May 12th, 2009
6:03 pm
I’m still trying to figure out if you’re the GM of a re-building team, why would you bring in a coach that’s from the Larry Brown school of not playing/developing young players. Not only have the Hawks become a “stagnant” team, but now look who they have as a GM to get them to the next level. This team will have to be built thru the draft/trade cause no legit FA are going to look at this organization particularly after the dismal this play-off performance.
JustaThought
May 12th, 2009
6:10 pm
Only the journeyman type FA’s who are looking for the “extra” money they can’t get from most other teams will even consider ATL. And you could probably forget hiring a quality coach as well. This organization
is really “screwed” and will be until there is clarity from the top.
Snowman
May 13th, 2009
3:24 am
Truth, we will definitely stay in touch over the off season. One final thing about Josh, again in my opinion (and he is talented), he is not coach able. He has been in this league 5 years and when everyone in the building says “No Josh” don’t shoot and he does…c’mon…I LOVE ME SOME AI however unfortunately for all of the good he does on the floor he is also NOT COACHABLE (probaly not a good analogy but itis late and my brain has shut down…smile). I think that is Josh’s problem…not to mention when he is dribbling I am a nervous wreck as well (smile). He needs to grow up and et serious about his profession!…He however is one very talented young player. Maybe he will get it together one day however, I would take Bosh or Okafor(smile…if he was available).
Mr. Serum, you keep after Schultz and the Hawk and Woody Haters out there…and continue to keep it real!!!… don’t let him get away with the non-sense that he does. It is a HUGE off season for the Hawks and I hope Sund is up to the task!!!…By the way, that Lebron is a beast huh?…He could be (gulp, I can’t believe I am going to say this…here it goes) the GREATEST player of all time when it is all said and done. However he must get some rings to validate that talent!!!…
Take your time Hawks, do it right! | Hawks Blog
May 13th, 2009
11:48 pm
[...] the league, Sund is well aware that now is not the time for snap decisions. Those are the things, as my guy Jeff Schultz alluded to his in his column from Game 4 of the Cleveland series, that can implode a franchise. Sund needs to do what his predecessor did not after last [...]
‘Net reaction: Cavaliers at Hawks, Game 4 | Lancilo USA
May 18th, 2009
8:40 pm
[...] Jeff Schultz, AJC: "There’s a tendency when teams are down 3-0 in a playoff series to play hard at the outset but fizzle quickly when the opponent steps it up. Give the Hawks credit. The Cavaliers might have been off their game a little, but Atlanta had chances to fold up and didn’t. The last year the Hawks had won a playoff series was 1999, and the good feelings that season also didn’t last long. They were swept by the New York Knicks in the second round. General manager Pete Babcock apparently was so distraught that he popped a spring and traded Steve Smith for Isaiah Rider. The rest is inglorious history. The chances of general manager Rick Sund blowing things up this summer are slim. But it’s startling how much things are up in the air. That’s rare to see when you have such a young team that has shown incremental progress over a period of years. The team’s next direction is anybody’s guess." [...]