Braves have lost the benefit of the doubt
Much like this ground ball to second baseman Omar Infante, everything with the Braves these days seem just out of reach. (Curtis Compton/ccompton@ajc.com)
They have a left fielder hitting .171 but turning down rehab assignments, a Japanese pitcher who looks out of his league, a catcher who can’t see, a legend who can’t throw and a rookie starter who’s on pace for over 200 strikeouts, which would be great if we were talking about Jordan Schafer as a pitcher, not a hitter.
Still bubbling over with enthusiasm about your Atlanta Braves?
They started the season 5-1. They were 6-14 since, heading into Wednesday night’s game at Florida. They dropped consecutive home games to the struggling New York Mets, and in Tuesday’s loss committed two errors and hit into three double plays. Manager Bobby Cox scooped up the remains of starting pitcher Kenshin Kawakami after five innings, which seemed wise given Kawakami was on a pace to throw 203.4 pitches.
If Kawakami were being paid by the pitch, his $23 million contract would seem like a bargain. Instead, it looks like the second cousin of Mike Hampton’s contract.
It sure would be nice if catcher Brian McCann (eye infection) could see again. (Curtis Compton/ccompton@ajc.com)
It’s only May. The possibilities are endless. Injuries heal. Hitters get hot. Bad luck evens out. Who knows? Maybe one day, somebody will even ship Brian McCann glasses that actually have two corrective lenses in them instead of one (as happened Tuesday).
But ask yourself this: Given that so much went right for the Braves over 14 straight seasons, did you ever think this might be the market correction?
“Eventually some good things have to start happening,” Chipper Jones said.
And then this: “I once told one of my good friends in baseball, ‘We’ll get ’em next time.’ Then he dropped an expletive and basically said, ‘Screw that, I wanted to get ’em this time.’ That’s how we all feel. We’re living for today. We’re hoping today is what turns it. It just seems when we put ourselves in a good situation, we self-destruct or something unlucky happens.”
Problem is, good baseball teams don’t self-destruct. Franchises certainly aren’t defined by luck. They are defined by personnel decisions, player development and, unfortunately, economic agendas.
If the Braves don’t turn it around, they will fail to reach the playoffs for the fourth straight season. That’s not luck. That’s definition.
The fizzled trades and free agent rejections of this past off-season are well known. Maybe expecting to make it back to October with so many second choices was too much to expect.
Garret Anderson — summoned after the Ken Griffey Jr. signing unraveled — has struggled with a calf injury. He rejected a minor-league assignment that was meant to help him find his swing. So he returned Tuesday against the Mets and went 0-for-4, stranded three base runners and hit into a double play. He was batting cleanup.
Does this sound like the backdrop for a turnaround?
The Braves rank 26th in the majors in runs, 23rd in hits, 24th in home runs and 27th in total bases. Defense has been mediocre. Overall, pitching has been solid. But Kawakami (1-4, 6.41 ERA) has been an early bust, Tom Glavine has yet to throw a pitch and reliever Blaine Boyer was punted to St. Louis two weeks ago.
Manager Bobby Cox reacts as he always does, with a positive: “We’re only 3 ½ back.”
General manager Frank Wren, who put this team together, harps on injuries. When asked if the season has been a letdown, he said: “We all feel like we’ve left some games out there we could’ve won if we had our full club together.”
There are built-in assumptions there. But assumptions go down easier when a team is coming off a string of post-seasons, not declining win totals. Maybe now, this is the norm.
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161 comments Add your comment
Little Mary Sunshine
May 6th, 2009
2:54 pm
It’s only mid-May, Jeff. Put on your happy face. The season is still young.
mountain_jim
May 6th, 2009
3:03 pm
just waiting for football season myself…
Nativebird
May 6th, 2009
3:12 pm
When Casey Kotchman is your “RBI producing power hitting” First baseman…you have to look into the mirror as a GM and ask, who am I kidding?
You are spot on. Personnel decisions and economic agenda.
both are not conducive to winning in Atlanta.
Left to Right
May 6th, 2009
3:14 pm
As the Braves no longer have one of the highest paying payrolls in baseball, and as they no longer have 3 Hall of Fame pitchers in their starting lineup (including perhaps the best ever), they are going to have to do things the way so many other losing professional teams have done things-by rebuilding from the ground up. This means no more trading of promising players for ultimately futile runs. I know C. Jones wants to win now because his playing career is coming to an end, but unfortunately I just don’t think there are any quick fixes to the Braves problems.
matt_T
May 6th, 2009
3:18 pm
“Garret Anderson — summoned after the Ken Griffey Jr. signing unraveled — has struggled with a calf injury. ”
Griffey isn’t doing much better in Seattle. If they can’t swing a trade for a power hitting LF, just cut Anderson and play Brandon Jones or Diaz.
Johnson
May 6th, 2009
3:19 pm
The Braves were the best regular season team of the 90’s but where it counted were tied for the 3rd best team behind NY, Toronto, and tied with the likes of Cinci, Minn, and FL. Braves made it to 5 World Series and won 1. Winning 3 or more would make this down cycle a bit easier to take. Not striking while the iron was hot is the travesty here. Unfortunately, the players (besides Smoltz) were drinking the Cox koolaide and never seemed disappointed with the poor outcomes in the postseason.
NC Braves Fan
May 6th, 2009
3:21 pm
Perhaps worse than the W-L record at this point is how absolutely unwatchable this team is right now. They look like a collection of zombies out there.
Football Ken
May 6th, 2009
3:38 pm
Jeff,
Enuff is enuff. We REAL Braves fans can’t take this anymore. Get Kelly(cost you 3 games a year cuz of errors) Johnson outta here. Get Garret (my prime wuz 5 years ago) Anderson outta here. Tired of our eternal hope for the bullpen. When will our “reluctant supastar”(10) light a fire under his teammates. Do I dare state the obvoious, time for Bobby to go. He has lost this team with his “ho hum” even keeled approach. Wren doesn’t have a clue, have you seen Andrus with the Rangers, kid’s a stud. This reminds this native ATLien of the old days and old Braves. We can’t hit for power, can’t steal bases, it’s like if you make it to the bigs with this team, fundamentals go out the window. Going to be a long summer.
Simple Really
May 6th, 2009
3:43 pm
Here come the whiners….wah, wah, wah. It’s barely freakin’ May.
lawton
May 6th, 2009
3:43 pm
CHIPPER JONES. thats one problem everybody is ignoring. not chipper HIMSELF, but the fact that chipper shouldve been traded long ago for a topline starting pitcher. who cares about the drop off in production in the middle, they are not going anywhere with him here, so, rebuild a top notch pitching staff, restock the minor league and stop trying to build the team around the long ball (bobby cox). thats why they got only one world championship in the first place, not building around run manufacturing and team speed. if they dont hit a homerun in the right situation with men on base they lose. not a good way to build a team. they are the equivalent of a nba team that shoots 3 pointers all the time.
G State Ben
May 6th, 2009
3:52 pm
Fizzled trades? Wren looks like a genius. Peavy is 2-3 with an ERA of 4.58 and is on pace to walk a career high in batters. Braves would have given up Escobar, Gorkys Hernandez, Boyer and Charlie Morton. I’ll keep the kids thank you very much.
G State Ben
May 6th, 2009
3:54 pm
Andrus a Stud? Huh? .264, 1 HR, 4 RBI is not exactly killing it. His defense is great but seriously.
TRobb1
May 6th, 2009
3:55 pm
Actually, the pitching is very good. Really solid. Even Ho-Ho has looked good. If Kawakami can keep the ball down, it’s excellent.
But the hitting? Madre, dios mio… In November, Wren said he needed two pitchers and a major bat. He was exactly right, ’cause a bopper would get that lineup over the critical mass line. Instead, he bought three pitchers, one of whom was unneccesary, and a minor bat who hasn’t played and isn’t much better than the guy he shares time with.
I’m not sure who the committee was that decided to sign/trade for three pitchers and fill left with a spare part, but if it’s Wren, it’s almost a pink slip. We’ve got a roster full of seventh place hitters.
Jeff Schultz
May 6th, 2009
4:09 pm
Sunshine — this is my happy face.
Left to right — agreed. I think Chipper’s more likely to vent than anybody else because he knows his window is closing.
MattT — yeah, didn’t mean to imply that Griffey would’ve been the savior. I think they’ll give anderson a while, though, before they make a change.
FootballKen — you can’t just subtract, you’ve got to add. the problem is nobody’s really making trades right now. It’s too early. so they’re kinda stuck for a while.
TRobb — “a roster full of seventh place hitters.” yeah, that kind of sums it up right now.
Al Beeski
May 6th, 2009
4:21 pm
Gee everybody chill out! give em more than a month, of course JUST ABOUT EVERYBODY IS RIGHT ON THIS BLOg. But c’mon Frankie baby, you GOT 2 get more power out of your RF & 1B, methinks the pitching will be OK, but we’ve got 2 get some protection for Mac & Hoss and Anderson & Kotchman **are not** the answers. Wren did a decent job considering the financial constraints, but c’mon Frank u could of did better than this, I’d rather have 2 youngsters w/ power who can produce than a has been (garrett) and a never was (kotchman).
CLTDawg
May 6th, 2009
4:27 pm
It is sad to see how far we have fallen. I had season tickets in the 90’s before I left for college and have always been and will always be a Braves fan, but something needs to change. I am hoping that Liberty decides to sell the team and maybe someone who has a passion for the game (a Mark Cuban type or Cuban himself) will snatch them up and do what it takes to win. Until then, we are likely looking up at the rest of the division.
We had a great run, but we cannot keep looking to the past for help. Time to move forward.
Leland
May 6th, 2009
4:29 pm
Dear Mr. JS–good article, but not funny. Your pal, Leland
Plato
May 6th, 2009
4:37 pm
Let’s hear no more whining about payroll. The Braves have four times the payroll of Florida and they are looking up at the Marlins in the standings–just like last year. Also, their injury problems Wren is crying about are no worse than other teams.
matt r
May 6th, 2009
4:54 pm
CLTDawg… That someone is Arthur Blank who has made inquiries before. We just need those inquiries to come to fruition.
The Grinch
May 6th, 2009
4:55 pm
Josh Anderson’s hitting over .300 leading off for Detroit and has more stolen bases than our entire team. Last year in the majors, he hit almost .300 with a touch of power and 11 stolen bases in limited duty; it isn’t exactly a surprise. You think we could have benefited from starting him and giving Schaeffer a few more months in the minors? Yes, I said the same thing when the season started.
The only positive I see is Tex getting exposed for the mercenary fraud he is on the big stage. It makes me smile.
Paul H
May 6th, 2009
5:04 pm
The last 3 years I have asked “when’s football season” around July. Now I’m asking it now. When’s football season?
Mike
May 6th, 2009
5:06 pm
Seriously – these guys are a joke. How could you not look at this lineup at the beginning of the year and not laugh? Garret Anderson? Please. K Johnson has been regressing since day one. Power at 1B? None to speak of. The only good thing about our lineup is Chipper has not taken a trip to the DL, but of course that is offset by McCann. At least Schafer can…..well he’s young at least so maybe by the time were 15 games out he’ll come around.
How many games left? Ugh.
Joey
May 6th, 2009
5:17 pm
Mountain Jim, Why not just get off the baseball blog????
JD
May 6th, 2009
5:20 pm
Jeff – I mentioned on Dave O’Brien’s blog that we want to see sportswriters putting more heat on Bobby, TP, and co. It’s obvious there’s a problem with management, but it seems like Bobby’s going to live until he’s 100…and insist on managing the Braves until he dies.
The average fan reveres Bobby for his 14 consecutive division titles, and are blind to how poor his managing has become. We need a change, and I’m hoping sports writers will start calling out management (namely Bobby and Pendleton).
JD
May 6th, 2009
5:22 pm
I don’t see how you can blame the offensive woes on McCann’s abscence. The Braves are collectively hitting .250 as a team. McCann returning won’t help his teammates get on base any (except Chipper).
mike arnone
May 6th, 2009
5:25 pm
I agree with The Grinch. What a mistake it was trading Josh Anderson. Believe me I felt the same about Schafer. I didn’t think he was ready, despite ripping it up in spring trading.
Joey
May 6th, 2009
5:30 pm
The Grinch, Amen to the line about Tex. I love seeing him struggle in the Big Apple. He is absolutely the product of statistics. I remember a Ranger fan from Texas warning us to be wary of the mercenary getting hot after the races were over, and hitting homeruns with no runners on base. But, how many stolen bases would Josh Anderson have playing for Bobby Cox?
concerned fan
May 6th, 2009
5:31 pm
The Braves are a soft ball club. They are not without talent, but they lack that competitive chromosome we became use to seeing in the 14-year run. Yes we had all those Cy Young winners, but we also had players who could delivery the clutch hit…at least during the regular season. Chipper is a great player but a lousy leader. Many fans hated Justice for his big mouth, but he was a leader and he got it done when it counted the most.
We also have to look at how the Braves are drafting and developing players. As someone mentioned above, we seem to develop 5th, 6th, 7th place hitters and not much else. We don’t seem to draft speedy players or even athletic players. Big, tall, big swinging,can’t bunt, slow, guys are what we produce now.
I have never been a Bobby Cox basher because to me the man’s record speaks for itself. But I really think that he and his staff is not getting the most out of the players on a consistent enough basis. It is clear that either we change staffs, or it’s time to cut bait on some players(like the right side of our infield).
old fart
May 6th, 2009
5:36 pm
Season’s over boys and girls. It’s another battle for third place.
Kenny Gannon
May 6th, 2009
5:37 pm
Looks like the 90s will be the golden years and the exception rather than the rule. We’re back to the crummy Braves of yore only now we have to endure it with Skip, Pete and Ernie. That makes me really not care. And without TBS nobody else cares either–outside of ATL. Braves are old news and a small market team getting smaller and smaller.
Kenny Gannon
May 6th, 2009
5:38 pm
Without Skip, Pete and Ernie I meant.
it's early
May 6th, 2009
5:41 pm
Many of the years where the Bravos won the division, April and early May were bleak. It’s early, don’t panic. We’ve gottta get Mac back, that’ll help Chipper, and lay off of Kotch…we knew he wasn’t a power guy. He’s a good hitter who gets on base, its up to others to drive him in. Part of that is included in a healthy Mac protecting Chipper. Garrett is not the answer, now was Griffey. They both will spend much of the season hurt. The final few Schuerholtz years hurt us as he traded way too much away to rent players for a season or so. Kelly has to hit or get off the pot (nice, huh?)
And finally, Bobby has to figure out how to manage to manufacture runs. We are not a three run homer team anymore, and he is not a small ball manager.
concerned fan
May 6th, 2009
5:58 pm
Why does Matt Diaz get a pass and all the blame goes to Garret Anderson? This town just does not care for African-Americans on it’s baseball team does it?And if they are they get zero benefit of the doubt. Even Shultz repeats thelie that Garret Anderson “refused” a rehab assignment and no one bothered to correct him.Why did you not tell the truth Mr. Shultz?
Garret Anderson said he felt that he didn’t need a rehab assignment when given a choice. Chipper has done the same thing when returning from his many DL stints but no one had a problem when he exercised his choice not to go on a rehab assignment in the minors.
Garret Anderson is going to be the player he’s always been when all is said and done.
61 year Braves Fan
May 6th, 2009
6:18 pm
Time to replace Cox and his entire staff. I said it last year. This team is very poor in fundamentals, has no spark, no stealing, no hit & run, Shafer should go back to minors. Cox should know Vasquez
is a great 5 inning pitcher and bring in someone to start the 6th. Just check his history gets hit 3rd
time around batting order. Kelly is a woeful 2nd baseman. Play Prado there and Infante in left field
every day. Escobar & Francouer still not patient enough at plate and swing at to many pitches out of the strike zone. Blame Terry P. for this. It will be a long summer.
Einstein
May 6th, 2009
6:27 pm
Our pitchers can’t make the pitch when they have to, our hitters can’t hit when the game’s on the line, we wouldn’t know speed from speedo, and our manager is still managing like it’s a shutout and we need a home run. Folks, it’s time to retire these clowns, because they’re not going to go on their on…”when they pry their cold, dead fingers from the paycheck”. If not more mediocrity and same old, same old.
Coach (2010 or bust)
May 6th, 2009
6:41 pm
This is by far the slowest team in the entire 44 year history of the Braves in Atlanta, Georgia.
That should be a clue because professional baseball teams should be able to run the bases.
This one can’t, they have no running game to speak of. The obvious is evident in that statement.
BravesAreDone
May 6th, 2009
6:41 pm
Ridiculous to not accept the minor league assignment. What a joke this whole team is…but I knew that before the season even got started.
ProfFish
May 6th, 2009
6:51 pm
Sorry, but it is time to panic. At the start of the season I blogged that we need career years from most of our position players to score enough runs to win consistently. I also said the key to starting pitching wasn’t innings pitched, but the number of times starting pitchers left after six innings having given up two runs or less. Finally, I said that to expect all three key relievers to be back performing at a high level wasn’t realistic.
I think all three comments are still accurate, and the early results aren’t promising. Many of our position players are having career years–career worst years. Our starting pitching has been good on average, but too many games have been turned over to the bullpen with the Braves trailing. And none of the “big three” in the bullpen has been exceptional. All have looked good at times, but all have looked terrible at times, especially Moylan.
Mr. Bisher had a great column about a week ago, pointing out the failures of the Braves’ vaunted farm system. Despite the continued high ratings, what position players have reached the All-Star level? Brian McCann starts and finishes the list and he’s the most over-rated player in baseball. He doesn’t play enough or produce enough to carry a team like the great catchers of the past.
Unless anf until the Braves farm system generates two or three all-start caliber position players, we’ll be fans of a team that will be lucky to win half its games.
woodie
May 6th, 2009
7:41 pm
The Braves aren’t very good at doing the little things like bunting or stealing bases. Remember the Cardinals with Vince Coleman and the other speed-burners? They won because they manufactured runs and played good defense.
Alan
May 6th, 2009
7:42 pm
It all comes back to the top echelon, Frank, Bobby and the ownership.
Bobby as good as he was seems to be out of touch with reality, the game and the atheletes seems to have passed him by, I see little hope, I would like to see them prove me wrong.
turkey
May 6th, 2009
8:05 pm
61 year Braves Fan, amen. This team has absoultly no spark just going through the motions. The Braves will finish dead last.
Larry
May 6th, 2009
8:08 pm
“The game passed Bobby by” in 1983 when Joe Torre took the same players to a division title. The ONLY reason Bobby took 14 consecutive teams to division titles was the masterful work of the General Manager and expert player development and scouting. However, once there, you need a smart in-game, strategic manager to out manage your opponent in the short series and this is why Bobby is 1-14 all time in the last game (and series) of the postseason. Simply put, without shutout pitching and a three run homer, Bobby hasn’t a clue, but he is clearly the best all time at mining his left nostril with his right thumb and barking out silly little nicknames to grown men.
Shamus Thacker
May 6th, 2009
8:13 pm
Garret Anderson STINKS!!
Hope the Braves can find a way to let him go that’s appropriately humiliating. He’s a damned stiff!
Shamus Thacker
May 6th, 2009
8:19 pm
Coach, your observation about the Braves speed is encouraging.
I thought they were the slowest team in the history of ORGANIZED SPORT.
I stand corrected, and relieved…
PMC
May 6th, 2009
9:09 pm
Garrett looks pretty good tonight. I still think he was a good get by Wren.
I still think Wren did pretty well this offseason with what he had to work with. They don’t have the Marlins farm system. They did trade away lots of talent for Tex and then fail to capitalise while they had him. They have though been quietly amassing some minor league talent through drafts and trades the last several years.
Ultimately, how upset can we be that they are struggling when we can all see the lack of talent compared to the old 90’s teams.
They are only 3.5 back. They will compete and still likely finish where they belong talent wise in 4th. Even with everyone healthy the lineup isn’t scary in the least. The bullpen is spray and pray and the starters once Huddy is back… pretty solid.
At best this team is 85 wins or so. That would be a good year for this bunch. It’s unfortunate but that’s what we’ve got this year. It’s really a good thing they didn’t make a talent reducing short term acquisition this year. They should benifit in the long run… It’s just unfortunate that they have not really competed since 2001 or maybe even 1999 when they were outclassed by the Yankees.
Jeff Schultz
May 6th, 2009
9:13 pm
JD – I understand your point but I don’t believe people go from a good manager/coach to a bad manager/coach overnight. I think it’s more the players than the coaching.
Concerned fan – you really making this a race issue? Anderson was acquired to be the starter. That’s why he’s getting more heat than Diaz. If Diaz was the intended started, the team never would’ve signed Anderson. … as for the rehab assignment, of course it was his choice. that’s in the collective bargaining agreement. but it’s unusual that he said no when asked.
Coach: I agree. the team needs more speed and needs to run more to help[ produce runs.
Jeff Schultz
May 6th, 2009
9:15 pm
Question to the masses: Is the anti-Bobby Cox faction growing? Just curious.
Michael
May 6th, 2009
9:26 pm
Is there anybody in this lineup, on this team, who could hit 30 homers? That’s part of your main problem. If you don’t have enough power, you don’t get those cheapo runs that can win you a few one-run games. Without McCann, the lineup is just mediocre. Francoeur has turned it around, but he’s still not a big bopper. Big sticks cost money, and that’s what it will take.
Atlanta Braves Discussion - Page 432 - VolNation
May 6th, 2009
9:34 pm
[...] Braves have lost the benefit of the doubt | Jeff Schultz Good read on the current state of this franchise. [...]
FireCox
May 6th, 2009
9:38 pm
The Braves have showed that they aren’t serious about winning by not making a change with their manager. Cox is obviously just taking it easy during his last season before retirement. The man should’ve been fired during the 90’s when he team choked in the post-season every year.
And I honestly don’t think most Braves fans realize that this is professional sports- you are either working toward a championship or you should geting rid of everyone and rebuilding. The Braves haven’t been in the mix for a World Series in ten years.
Michael
May 6th, 2009
9:46 pm
So does FireCox think Bobby should be fired for reaching the World Series or not reaching the World Series? If Lonnie Smith doesn’t stop rounding second in 1991, does that make Cox a much better manager?
Herschel Talker
May 6th, 2009
9:48 pm
Jeff – great column. Regarding your anti-Bobby question, I could have won with Maddux, Smoltz, and Glavine in the mid 90s. Cox has never been a great tactician, but merely a great manager of egos and stars (a la Joe Torre). Since there has been little need for that the last few years, the results are what they are. He does the same thing over and over and expects different results. It’s complete lunacy. You’re right – they are just average. The team is mediocre. 1-3 starters are solid (Lowe, Vazquez, JJ). 4-5 starters are a joke. Setup man and closer are solid. The rest of the bullpen is a joke. The lineup is a joke. Regarding the Japanese guy, he is a complete joke. His fastball isn’t fast, and his other pitches lack movement. He’s been beating up on mediocre guys all these years. The MLB hitters are eating him alive. What the heck did the Braves see in him?
BugKiller
May 6th, 2009
9:51 pm
Why is it, Jeff, that you and the other members of Atlanta media REFUSE to lay any blame at Cox’s feet for the annual October Chokefests?
You all have it BACKWARDS.
Cox isn’t responsible for the the 14 straight division titles. The talent of the team is. Over 162 games, Cox’s HORRIBLE in-game management is diluted by the fact that there are 162 games, and talent can overcome some bad managerial decisions.
And by the same token, the talent isn’t at fault for screwing up all those Octobers. Cox is. Why? Because he didn’t have 162 games, yet he REFUSED to manage like there wasn’t a tomorrow. He refused to change his terrible approach.
He stayed with cold-hitting veterans over hot younger players. Ryan Klesko’s stint in San Diego PROVED that Cox is a moron and that Klesko would have been a FAR better threat against left handers than the trash he’d throw out there in his favored platoons.
He continually stayed with his starters far too long, and routinely put in the wrong relievers.
He also refused to acknowledge the fact that John Smoltz is the best October pitcher ever. He’d always had two guys who underperformed when the strikezone shrank pitching games 1 and 2.
Why?
Why did he do all of these things? Cause he’s not the genius you and other purport.
The truth is starting to come out about Bobby Cox. SI.com’s Tom Verducci doesn’t buy into the myth that Cox is a “great” manager.
He was handed a great team by the best GM in baseball history and routinely screwed up their chances with his terrible crunch-time management.
He’s horrible. In ANY other city, Cox would have been fired for the Debacle of 1996.
But because Atlanta’s media is soft, here he remains, screwing up teams in the regular season now.
Oh, by the way, that’s more proof that Cox is nothing but a joyrider on Schuerholtz’s talent train:
You give him a GREAT team, and he can get out of their way enough to win a division, but screw up their postseason chances.
You give him an AVERAGE team, or even a below average team, and what does he do?
Nothing. He doesn’t make them better. He sits in the dugout, picks his nose, and continues to do the same things in the same way, each time expecting the results to be different.
You know what Einstein called that Jeff?
The definition of insanity.
The fact that Cox WASN’T fired after 1996? Insanity.
RHR
May 6th, 2009
9:55 pm
I’m not anti-Bobby per se, not at all, but I am starting to come around to that way of thinking. I can think of a few games in this young season where it was apparent the Braves lost because they were just flat out-managed.
Falcon 3107
May 6th, 2009
10:06 pm
The Mets toyed with the Braves , so did the Astros.I believe my little league team could take 2 of 3.
lagnamor
May 6th, 2009
10:21 pm
Great job Jeff. But Bobby Cox is a damn Joke! I agree with the ones above that believe management sucks…they pick,sign and trade for the players they want…if they don’t perform its managements fault. Bobby plays his good old boys instead of the best players. A Jones, Frenchy , are a couple examples last few years, they are more. You could go on and on….etc.
Those that say its EARLY better get a life, Its over!
bet on it.
Josh Anderson never got a fail chance with Cox. He didn’t fit the good old boy image for Bobby. Jordon is getting more harm done to him by playing everyday. Should be in AAA.
dobearsbare
May 6th, 2009
10:27 pm
I think in general, managers get more criticism than they deserve. The main job is to create an atmosphere in which the team can thrive and Cox does that better than anyone. Folks, you don’t win 2,000 games by accident. So I think the fire Cox talk is ridiculous.
TrueFAN!!!
May 6th, 2009
10:30 pm
I love Bobby Cox and because of what he has given to ATL, he should retire on his own terms! The man has been brilliant and truthfully if he gets us anywhere close to the playoffs with what he has in his bullpen/clubhouse…I would be surprised!
jake
May 6th, 2009
10:49 pm
So many have said it above, it scarcely needs repeating, but Cox is a mediocre manager who was blessed with wonderful talent — especially pitching. But he has no feel for the game, no appreciation for what Chip Caray called last night “the heart” of the game.
And if you want to see something really scary, read the 2009 Baseball Prospectus about the Braves and, specifically, how Cox has burned up good arms by his wooden, lock-jaw approach to relievers. Moylan had surgery, so Cox is going to burn him out twice. Bennett will be belly up soon. O’Flaherty, too. He uses them every day. Go back over the past few years and count the bodies, starting with Chris Hammond and Mike Remlinger. Cox is baseball’s Typhoid Mary to relievers.
Steve
May 6th, 2009
10:59 pm
When your big 3 – McCann, Jones and Anderson have been down for various times this season, I think that is the only reason we are struggling this bad. If they were healthy, we’d probably be around 1st place. Hope Kawakami comes thru though – hope he’s not the Speedy Claxton of the Braves.
2 Things I wish we had done in the offseason – kept Josh Anderson to platoon with Diaz and trade for Peavy. Surely we could have packaged some Charlie Morton, Campillo, etc. conglomerate together and got him.
Cox is a good manager, if we get healthy, he can lead this team to a decent finish. Sticking to my 88-74 prediction. Will be interesting to see if they resign Hudson, and how they handle Hanson. Wish somebody was lefthanded in the mix however. Can you imagine a 2010 staff of Hudson, Lowe, Jurjenns, Hanson, and either Vasquez or Kawakami? Would be tough to beat!
uga-brave
May 6th, 2009
11:16 pm
jeff,
i think the fustration is with the whistling by the graveyard attitude of the front office.
the whole home grown braves thing, trading for stars and not resigning them i.e. sheff, tex, drew, etc., smilin frank and his off season escapades, but the real problem lies in their scouting and player development.
they cut their scouting budget five years ago and it shows.
fact is this current team is a collection of spare parts, has beens, and never will be’s.
how many players do the braves have in their prime years, 27-32?
as for frank wren, you would be better off giving a pig a wristwatch?
Najeh Davenpoop
May 6th, 2009
11:47 pm
I have never understood why, in any sport, a GM would spend free agent money to assemble a roster that doesn’t have a realistic shot at a title. Derek Lowe, Kenshin Kawakami, Garret Anderson, etc. were all OK acquisitions on paper, and at least Lowe is producing up to his contract so far. But even if they all play well, does this team have a realistic shot at a World Series? No, it doesn’t. Let’s be real.
Spending money in free agency makes sense if you already have a core of players that can lead you to a title. The Braves don’t and haven’t had this. The smart thing to do, for the last four years, has been to trade every veteran Marlins-style, accumulate prospects, and re-emerge as a contender led by young players after a few years of sucking. Instead, Wren and Schuerholz have run this team like it was still the mid-’90s where they were only a piece or two away from a World Series — the disastrous Teixeira trade being the most glaring example.
I will be more than willing to eat my words if McCann comes back playing like an All Star, Chipper stays healthy all year, Infante continues hitting over .300, Kawakami starts pitching like Hideo Nomo in 1995, Anderson gets dried down again (opposite of washed up, get it?), Schafer suddenly morphs into a legit major leaguer, and the Braves come out of nowhere to contend. But on the real, it doesn’t look like that will happen. It’s still not too late to hold the fire sale this team needs. When you are a mid market team like the Braves, relying on free agency to carry you as a team is not a smart business model.
wxwax
May 7th, 2009
12:11 am
Hi Jeff.
Here’s a page view, buddy.
gotigers72
May 7th, 2009
12:27 am
Garrett = Raul Mondesi, except Mondesi was a much better fielder. Bet the Braves wish they would have kept Josh Anderson and let Schafer age more at Gwinnett. His age [22] should have told the Braves that. They should not have made that decision based on ONE spring training. Schafer had never played a game above Double A. J. Anderson had played some ML games and had done fairly well in those games. And is doing well at the ML level this year.
I know, hindsight is 20/20, but they should not have made that decision on one spring training. At least they should have kept Anderson and played him in LF, instead of feeling that they had to go after someone outside of the organization just because they didn’t land Griffey. I’ll bet anybody that J.Anderson has better stats than G. Anderson when the year is over. He already has 6 steals which G. Anderson will never reach. Boy could the Braves ever use his speed.
Bryan in AZ
May 7th, 2009
12:29 am
No fire or passion from anyone. What a disgrace this franchise has become. The apathy is contagious, it starts with Cox. He needs to go. We need amanager that’s got fire in his belly and accepts nothing less than 100% all the time from the players. This season is over.
Ted Striker
May 7th, 2009
2:00 am
This has nothing to do with sports, news, or even reality…but if I’m Jack Bauer and I have less than 8 hours to live I want me a Chloe O’Brien and Renee Walker sandwich.
Ted Striker, OVRNOUT
Supes
May 7th, 2009
2:08 am
2011 is when all of the impact Braves prospects figure to arrive and contribute. Until then…any success will have to come from trade, or adding a FA…and what’s on the roster right now.
Remember that we get Hudson back for a month in September, if he can come in and be effective, it could help down the stretch, asuming the are “in it” at that point.
Braves will have to do some soul searching, no doubt.
Bob Salttoyourmachia
May 7th, 2009
2:30 am
Supes is right, and we do have some talent coming up, like Kris Medlen and Gorkys Hernandez-
http://minorsandmajors.com/2009/613/medlen-dominates-gwinnett-braves-win
JD
May 7th, 2009
2:35 am
I don’t believe people go from a good manager/coach to a bad manager/coach overnight. I think it’s more the players than the coaching.
I was never that crazy about Bobby to begin with. His shortcomings are just being magnified now that we’re consistantly losing. They were easier to overlook when you had Maddux posting sub-2 ERAs, or Sheffield and Javy blowing away opposing pitchers.
But this is the 4th straight year, and I don’t know how much longer we’re going to have to keep going through the same problems. Poor execution on fundamentals, questionable lineups (Casey Kotchman at cleanup??), questionable decisions (his notorious loyalty for leaving pitchers in too long or leaving slumping players in the lineup too long), etc.
TP too. Now I don’t know what goes on behind the scenes, but I always hear about hitters getting help from Chipper and crediting success to him, not TP. I also see players riding out slumps of Biblical proportions, or players with obvious mechanical flaws that don’t get changed at all. I don’t know how much longer we can keep blaming the players.
No More Bobby
May 7th, 2009
3:02 am
Thanks for being straight up. My problem is I think this franchise could very well get used to losing just like we did winning in the 90s if a major move is not made. When there is a problem you fix it right? And 99% of the time managers take the heat (everywhere but here).
At what point does this organization say thanks Bobby but its time we move in a new direction?
scottbravesfan
May 7th, 2009
3:07 am
It’s the beginning of May and our second best hitter has been out for half of the season because he can’t see. Let’s see what happens when McCann gets back in the lineup and we actually have a power bat hitting clean up. This season is far from over and if Kawakami can’t get it together they can drop him from the rotation and call up Hanson who is destroying AAA. There is no reason for Hanson to be in AAA just to embarrass the AAA hitters. The guy is way too good for the the minors and the Braves are being cheap for holding him down there so long.
jed
May 7th, 2009
3:43 am
jake’s post at 10:49 about cox burning up relievers through overuse is spot-on. returning from surgery, moylan’s been out there 15 of 28 games already. he’s just one in a long line of relievers who have been used up over the years. another of cox’s faults is sticking with players for way too long when he ought to just send them to AAA to work out their problems. reggie sanders, andruw, and francouer dragged down the lineup in their slump years and cox left them out there day in and day out.
is there an anti-cox coalition growing? it’s been growing for a while, as far as i’ve seen. personally, i think he’s the best manager out there at what is the most important aspect of his job: managing players. as far as being a strategic manager, that’s never been his strength. i’d grade him about a C there.
it’s real simple: he used to have the horses. not anymore.
BeachGaBulldog
May 7th, 2009
3:56 am
Schultz, I have never read one of your columns, and all I have to do is read the title to know that you
have no idea what the hell you are talking about, with regard to ANY SPORT. Drop dead.
KnightInATL
May 7th, 2009
4:46 am
Wow BeachGaBulldog. That was a little harsh, no? Telling someone to ‘drop dead’ after merely reading their newspaper article…sounds as if you really have some issues to sort out with your life, buddy.
In any case, I will agree with the author here. The Braves are not showing any signs of a playoff caliber team. What is frustrating to me are the fundamental mistakes that seem to be an all too regular occurrence on the diamond. Too many baserunning errors (Esco and Schafer), below average fielding, and way too many unproductive outs (again, see Esco and Schafer). With the offense struggling as it has been (with the obvious exception of last night), Cox needs to start doing what he can to manufacture some runs. I know we don’t have anyone who is able to swipe bases at will, but we need to learn how to start advancing runners while making productive outs (plays that don’t show up on the scoresheet). This is especially true with McCann out of the lineup.
That aside, the unfortunate bottom line is that I simply don’t see us having the necessary talent to reach the playoffs this year. And if any substantial injuries hit our rotation, I don’t see us as a .500 ball club.
Jim
May 7th, 2009
4:50 am
I have been anti-Cox for 10 years now and it’s beginning to gain momentum . . . at least I’m not the only one that sees the TRUTH day after day! He has got all the praise for winning when actually he cost us . . . the man will never change his ridiculous “gut feeling” managing style. How about using stats of hitter vs. pitcher and pitcher vs. hitter, teams’ tendencies in given situations etc. To heck with pulling your lineup out of your nose!!! Time for major change . . . manager and his “good ol boys” coaches!
Jim
May 7th, 2009
5:04 am
It may just be May 7, but these games count too . . . you can’t wait and hope . . . that’s Bobby’s style of managing. This team has no fire . . . laid-back manager, laid-down team . . . maybe a new name like Cox and the Coxettes is a better fit than Braves!
Ben
May 7th, 2009
5:11 am
Why is everyone being so serious about this in early May? Yeah, some players haven’t been doing so well, maybe they will pick up the pace. Anyway, here are my opinions:
I have always thought the Braves need more speed. Even during their later playoff years, they did not have one decent speedy all-around player, but no one seemed to be complaining then. I think that this problem lies with the GM, as much as I hate to say, and maybe with Bobby for not telling the GM we need more speed. With Schuerholz, the apathy toward speedsters has already spread and it’s not hard to tell.
Seems like more often than not, one can count on Infante, Yunel, Prado, and Diaz. Everyone else sucks in the clutch this year. Diaz seems to be someone who deserves to be the starter over Garret.
How come no one is as ready to call out Pendleton as much as Bobby? I even hear that he might be the guy to take over after Bobby leaves. How absurd, what has he done for us lately? He could not get Andruw Jones to change his awful swing and Francoeur went to Texas’ hitting coach for help. I know Pendleton is a darling to Braves fans, but some things need to be brought up and I saw only saw one other post even mention his name. If he could not get Andruw to change his absurd swing-for-the-fence style of play for his last year in a Braves uniform (or was it his last two years), how can I expect him to lead my team?
And lastly, come on Bobby. I don’t care if it’s the pitcher who is batting. It’s rarely a good idea to bunt with two strikes. Can we just stop that?
Also, BeachGaBulldog, you’re a jerk. Why don’t you take a game a little less seriously? It will pay later in life.
Mitch
May 7th, 2009
6:54 am
Our biggest problem is the offense. If Mccann can get his eyes healthy, this team would have a shot to compete for at least the wild card. Our starting pitching has been very good. Soriano/Gonzalez has been a lot better so far than what we’ve had in recent years from the pen.
The scary part for us is: The “Big Boys” in the East, as I like to call them, (The Mutts and Philly of course) really havent seemed to kick it into gear until recently. Mutts had been flat until the last three games, and Philly had been just okay, until last night.
I dont like “Mr K” as I like to call him. He’s been awful. Lowe, Jair, and Javy Vazquez have been basically solid. I wish that Tommy Glavine could get healthy, and win us some games. The guy has been on a dozen division winners. That can be invaluable in a race for a playoff spot.
I dont think the Braves can win the NL East, but if we can get healthy, we can compete for the wild card. I’m not unrealistic, but I refuse to throw in the towel, when we’re a couple of games under 500, and 3 games out, in early May.
Last night’s win was important. We really need to return to Atlanta next week somehow having a winning road trip, even one game over 500. If we go.. two and six, that could be the beginning of big trouble.
One other thing: If the Braves dont make progress this year, as in, a wild card, I hope Bobby retires. I think it might be time for a fresh start, after twenty years, even as much as I love the guy.
Mitch
MK
May 7th, 2009
7:03 am
I myself get tired of seeing the same struggling players fail when we have other players performing well that are siting. Get the hot players on the field and I will show-up. It’s not called fair weather, it’s called plenty to do already but I will make time for winning baseball…
SOS
May 7th, 2009
7:06 am
Is the anti-Bobby Cox sentiment growing? I certainly hope so. We are in the fourth year of BC’s mismanagement of starters and the bullpen just to name a few. My god the man is pathetic. Bug Killer, Jake, and JD your comments about BC are right on!! HOF manager my #*$&$*. I just saw an article about how Braves attendance is down. They are blaming it on the weather. Maybe partially, but I think the fans are finally tired of a mediocre product on the field. Wren and Terry Pendleton and Roger McDowell have to share in the blame as well, but again that points to top management not doing what needs to be done.
BDAWG
May 7th, 2009
7:06 am
I understand that the Braves are competeing against top tier talent and that they cannot win every game or every series-But, they are SUPPOSED to be top tier talent as well and they absolutely make top tier money and I think we all should see a top tier effort 162 times a year. I’m tired of turning on the game every night and seeing listless efforts and no fire what-so-ever. Neither the Braves nor anyone else for that matter will ever win 14 years in a row like we saw during that magical run and I understand that. But I don’t understand being lifeless and turning into the Pirates. That being said, I was a Brave fan in the 80’s when they sucked and in the glory years and today and will be if they never get to the post season again. I just wish they could turn it around. Right about now, I miss those first round playoff exits
dobearsbare
May 7th, 2009
7:34 am
Fire Bobby Cox? I’m sorry, but that is ridiculous. 2,000 wins don’t just happen by accident.
Chris Murphy, Atlanta, GA
May 7th, 2009
7:40 am
Went to the game Monday night, and two things were apparent:
-Schafer has too fat a head, he won’t learn from his (multiple) mistakes.
-don’t get Lasik surgery, without being prepared for an eye condition that cannot be corrected. McCann’s career could be over.
yogi2
May 7th, 2009
7:48 am
J Shafer plays like a A- ball walk-on He is out classed by everyone on th team . He can’t carry B. Jones, J anderson or M.Diaz jock strap. Shafer needs to be released or traded
yogi2
May 7th, 2009
7:52 am
Did Shafer have Lasik Surgery too? Where is HEWARD
Reebok
May 7th, 2009
7:56 am
One thing you can count on, a Bobby Cox-coached team will never play hard and will never mind losing. Cox coasted on his team’s talent for years – many seasons they broke camp with 4 future Hall of Famers on the roster…and still managed to lose to inferior teams in the playoffs almost every year. If not for David Justice – the rare Brave who played with passion, in spite of Cox – the Braves wouldn’t have managed even one world championship during their run. Cox has accomplished less with more than any manager in MLB history. IMHO, of course and as always.
jerry
May 7th, 2009
8:02 am
Blaming the manager displays a lack of understanding the effect that he has in general. All managers are average. If one were to trade the manager of the best team for the manager of the worst team, the results would be the same for each. I guarantee it. In terms of importance the order of rank is owner, gm, players. It doesn’t matter who the manager is as long as he understands baseball and knows how to treat people, attributes that millions have.
dd
May 7th, 2009
8:17 am
Has to be the worst organization ever at executing the fundamentals. These guys can’t even lay down a bunt and move a guy over much less steal a base.
It’s like the cubbard is empty now. Look at the young bucks the Braves traded away and now there’s no one that puts a scare into other teams that I see.
All Cox does is make excuses for the players and say they are fine.
It’s an average team and that’s it.
Haven’t been to a game in years and these are just some of the reasons.
NEW CARS
May 7th, 2009
8:19 am
My biggest concern is still that we have no sense of urgency. No fire from the staff or the players. I don’t know if a change is due, but I have never been overly impressed by Pendleton or mcdowell
Curious George
May 7th, 2009
8:29 am
Does anyone know if I can use my ‘OPRAH’S FREE KFC GRILLED CHICKEN DINNER’ coupon at that KFC over by Turner Field?
Greg
May 7th, 2009
8:36 am
Mark my word…the Braves are the second worse team in the National League behind Washington…no doubt about it…they are worse than last year….
Steve
May 7th, 2009
8:48 am
I was at the park on tuesday and watched Kawakami pitch. This guy is a joke. Isn’t japan where all the old washed up american ball players used to go to play out their last few seasons ? When they brought him in I knew it was a bad idea. They called Kawakami the “Japanese Sensation”. I have since referred to him as Kamakasi the ” Japanese Frustration”.
LivininAL
May 7th, 2009
8:51 am
Braves appear to be going through the motions, adjusting real quickly to last years losing attitude. I was hopeful at the beginning of the season for a little enthusiasm, but it is missing. Bobby Cox’s being positive is great to a point, but it gets old when the entire roster looks like Gwinnwtt should be their home.
Carroll
May 7th, 2009
8:56 am
The positive thing here is that the braves have a lot of chips that they can parlay into restocking the farm if they FINALLY choose to do the right thing and rebuild. I mean everyone needs to go–Lowe, Kawakami, C. Jones, G. Anderson, Vazquez, Francouer, Johnson, Escobar, Soriano, Gonzalez…EVERYONE not named McCann, and possibly Jurgens. These chips would be valuable enough to a contending team at the deadline that we should be able to pull a Marlins and build our team for the next decade out of these trades.
Craig
May 7th, 2009
9:03 am
Agree with your column. Wren and Cox can talk injuries and pieces missing all they want. The biggest issue the Braves lost 90 games last year and are on the same pace this year is coaching and lack of fundamentals. I could give numerous examples of Bobby leaving a guy in too long or not long enough. Skinner has guessed wrong 10 different times this year at third base, and how many runs have we forfeited because we did not try to hit behind the runner (on top of the poor throws, dropped relays, etc.) Additionally there is no player with fire in their belly. Everything is the same “better luck next time/get ‘em tomorrow.”..This on top of being a few players short (and I’m not talking injuries). I hope I’m wrong because I have full season tickets, but this is going to be a long summer of losing close games because the other team wanted it more, with a bunch of excuses.
Hotrod
May 7th, 2009
9:03 am
This is “as good as it gets”.
Soooo get use to it.
If the Braves finish .475 -.500 this year I would call it a success.
Its going to take too big of a check book to bring back the 90’s.
PMC
May 7th, 2009
9:15 am
Maybe Thomas Dimitroff could moonlight as head of baseball scouting.
He just went out and helped the Falcons get two things the braves don’t have.
Speed… and a sense of urgency.
Darth Nick
May 7th, 2009
9:40 am
Good article. The bosses are obviously not going to spend any money and it is time to shift from mid market spending team to small market build from within. They have let Bobby, Smoltz, Glavine, Chipp, and Sherholz talk everyone into beleiving they could win the last four years when they just are not that good. The Texiera trade was bad going and coming. Give up 3 future starters for an 11 month rental, then turn around and give him away for Casey Kotchman (poor man’s Sid Bream without the heart). There is time to just start over and the longer they continue down this road of thinking they can compete with Mets, Phills, Marlins with a few off season moves the farther behind they will be. They’ve been digging themselves a hole for four yeare now and it is time to start again with long term plan.
RC Cola and a Moon Pie
May 7th, 2009
9:45 am
i’m not willing to mail the season in yet, but there are some cogent thoughts on this board.
however, i’m fuming over garrett anderson’s selfish decision not to take one for the team and drive the 20 minutes to gwinnett to find his swing. i’ve heard him referred to as a “professional hitter” enough; he’s killing us in the outfield. I coach a 14U travel team, and i know i’ve got 3 kids on my roster that flash leather better than him. granted, he got 3 rbi last night – but how many has he left on base?
Schaefer? I’m willing to try an experiment with Blanco right now – that won’t hurt us at this point. Just switch the 2 out for 2 weeks, see what happens…
Patrick
May 7th, 2009
9:47 am
Perhaps the offense would be better if hitters weren’t too agressive at the plate early in counts. Too many at bats with first pitch swings lead to poor offensive numbers. There is such a thing as being “too agressive!”