Hawks surviving despite an ordinary Joe
Joe Johnson seemingly has been fighting for control of the ball the entire playoffs. (AP photo)
There he was before the playoffs, saying all the right things. He wanted to be viewed as an elite player. He wanted to be known as a difference-maker. He wanted to be the guy who stood out in a postseason series, not blend like flowers on wallpaper.
“Everybody wants to be the guy,” Joe Johnson said last week. “This is the time when the great players step up.”
It’s Game 5 of the NBA playoffs, and we’re still waiting for Joe Johnson to step up. The degree of his greatness remains up for debate.
The Hawks are even in their series with Miami at two wins apiece despite Johnson, not because of him. They’ve received great games from Josh Smith and Zaza Pachulia and solid play from Mike Bibby.
But their captain and expected leading scorer has been relatively pedestrian.
Johnson is averaging 13.8 points. He has made only 37.9 percent of his field-goal attempts. He is 2-for-9 from three-point range and 9-for-17 from the free-throw line.
His assist-to-turnover ratio: so tilted the wrong way (10-to-15).
This is not what stars do. Not in the playoffs. Not even in November.
Johnson spent most of practice Tuesday getting treatment for an ankle sprain. When he emerged following a film session, he looked tired and irritated. The irritated part is probably a good thing. That anger-motivation-get-out-of-my-way-I’m-scoring-30-points domino effect would help right about now.
“It’s been a tough series,” he said. “But now that we’ve got home court back, maybe we can taken advantage of it.”
When asked if it has been a tough series for him personally, Johnson said: “Yeah, in some form or fashion. But, you know, we’ll be all right. I’ll pick my play up. I’ll get it together.”
He needs to. Because the current 2-2 count not withstanding, the chance of the Hawks winning this series with Johnson averaging less than 14 points seem slim.
Coach Mike Woodson told our Chris Vivlamore on Tuesday: “The thing is, we’ve been able to sustain with him being mediocre. To me, that’s great.”
The problem is, players who get five-year, $70 million contracts shouldn’t require a safety net, not so often and certainly not in April. Players who get five-year, $70 million contracts do so because they’re supposed to be special.
Team officials often point to Game 4 against Boston in last year’s playoffs, when he scored 35 points, as an almost staple of Johnson’s postseasons. But that night has been more of an aberration than the norm.
In seven playoff games since, Johnson has scored 21, 15, 16, 15, 16, 10 and 14, shooting 37.4 percent (37-of-99). It doesn’t mean he’s a bad player. Fact is, he’s a very good one who sometimes has great games. But elite players are great when it matters most.
Hawks general manager Rick Sund credited Miami’s defense but said Johnson has responded well to the double-teams, saying, “He has swung the ball when he’s needed to, and he’s made some big shots. Great players respond to a defensive scheme, and Joe’s done that.”
As for the lack of scoring, Sund added: “He’ll have a game where things fall his way.”
Johnson also referenced double-teams, off pick-and-rolls and in the post. He said, “I’ve just got to pick my spots a little better. I’ll be all right.”
Saying the right things hasn’t been the problem.
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128 comments Add your comment
The Hawksta
April 28th, 2009
6:44 pm
Great article! Joe needs to step it up in the worst way. I guess if teams didn’t double him and let him go one on one like we do D Wade things would be different. But he’s the star and stars require special treatment. Get out there and be a damn Superstar Joe!
willie
April 28th, 2009
8:09 pm
If they are going to roll double coverage to Joe, he needs to continue to pass the ball. There are only a few guys in the league that should still try to score when double-teamed. He has to trust his teammates to make the shots when he passes out of it. And a message for Josh…we love ya kid, but there is a reason you are wide open for all of those jumpers….GO TO THE RACK!
eturn
April 28th, 2009
8:17 pm
Just like C. Barkley said the other night. Joe Johnson is not a elite or great player. He just a good player. I agree. The Hawks need a star and are trying to make Joe a star. But in imo there are a lot of other average players lot better than Joe.
DrewCat
April 28th, 2009
8:23 pm
Sekou I’m so glad that you chose to go where few journalists will go. Joe Johnson is our star player, and he’s playing like a struggling role player. I think Woody makes a good point, however that The Hawks are still in this series despite Joe’s ineffectiveness. Josh Smith is really emerging as an intense player, and it is evident that ZaZa is a force off the bench.
Joe just seems too passive in his approach. He doesn’t have that takeover ability, and his ability to rise to the occasion on the “big stage” is questionable at best. Joe’s gottta show that he can be that guy. If he contributes how he’s expected to, this series will be done in six.
bottomline
April 28th, 2009
8:29 pm
He is a very good player. He is NOT a very SPECIAL player. Boston has Paul Pierce and KG (well not at the moment), Cleveland has LeBron, Miami has Wade, LA has Kobe, and the list of GREATNESS goes on. Until the Hawks acquire a SPECIAL player (Chris Paul wherefore art thou?) they will be no better than 4th in the East. We’re a good team that is still young, but we will be a good team that is old eventually unless we find that special, GREAT player.
bottomline
April 28th, 2009
8:30 pm
And for the love of God, would someone PLEASE tell Josh Smith that he SUCKS from outside! I am not a Woodson fan, but I sympathize with him having to deal with this hard headed talented player who is NOT a COMPLETE player. I can accept that…I wish HE could!
Cliff Levingston
April 28th, 2009
8:38 pm
Joe Johnson is playing scared. He had it rolling for the first quarter of game 1 and since then he’s literally looked sick.
I could do much better and I’m in my mid 40s and always sucked to start with.
Truth-serum
April 28th, 2009
8:57 pm
Truth-serum
April 28th, 2009
12:25 pm
Like ive always said, you cant became a finalist in the NBA without a Bonefied center. Za played a career game and I will acknowledge that, as ive always been very critical of him. If he could CONSISTANTLY DO THAT,rebound and intimidate and KEEP HIS TURNOVERS DOWN AND HE MUST FINISH IN THE LOW POST, NOT TURN OVER, then perhaps we could raise a flag in the atlanta.
GOOD GAME Z, STEP YOUR GAME UP AND WE WILL BECOME AN ELITE TEAM. WITHOUT A CENTER THE HAWKS ARE GOOD BUT NOT GREAT. IF Z STEPS UP THEN WE CAN GO BIG OR QUICK AND WOODSON HAS MORE OPTIONS!
TOAST TO FLIP,WOODSON,JJ, JOSH AND HORFORD- DO US PROUD GUYS.
THE DAY BELONGS TO WOODSON AND Z CONGRATS GUYS!
bottomline
April 28th, 2009
9:05 pm
Truth serum…something is IN your serum! Who is Cleveland’s BONAFIDE center? Hmmmm? Think they are not a serious contender? Who is Boston’s BONAFIDE center? KG is a 4…NOT a center. Who is LA’a BONAFIDE center? Yeah…you don’t HAVE to have a center…You HAVE to HAVE a SUPERSTAR!
Jeff Schultz
April 28th, 2009
9:25 pm
Willie: I hear ya on Josh’s jumpers. Everybody hears ya. Well, everyone but Josh.
Eturn: I wasn’t aware Barkley said that. But he does speak his mind, so I’m not surprised.
Drewcat: Sekou and I do look a lot alike, but . . .
Bottomline: I hear ya, too, just like Willie.
RA
April 28th, 2009
9:43 pm
Well Cliff you’re half right, but at least you were able to ride Jordan’s coatails to an NBA title or two. Listen, you folks need to back up off Joe Johnson, because I got news for you, durring the early years of this teams renaissance (that word means rebirth Cliff, try to keep up) Joe Johson was the ONLY thing going for this team. When Marvin Williams was too green and Josh Smith was too young and stupid. Before Mike Bibby. When Tyron Lue and Anthony Johsnon were trying to patrol the lane in their walkers, Joe Johnson was this franchise. He carried this team through the lean years when he was the only player on it that at some point or another didn’t make you want to put a paper bag over your head. He hasn’t had that great of a year, but I’ll tell you what, for part of that year, he’s been sick, and for the rest of it, he’s probably been battling problem and injuries that we don’t even know about. It reminds me of Tommy Glavin back in 1992. Everybody wondered, “what’s wrong with Glav, what’s wrong with Glav?” Well, after the season, those of us that cared enough to listen found out that he’d been playing with cracked ribs for the last few months of the season. You don’t know, maybe he’s tired. God knows if any of you had been running into double and triple teams for an entire year, your gas tank might be a little empty too. Oh, I’m sorry Cliff, I forgot, you never commanded a double or triple team. Well, maybe you can ask someone special enough to warrant one how it feels one day. You might want to start with Joe Johnson, after you apologize. Oh, I remember you Cliff, very well. You were a nice player, even decent one, but all you had was a roll, and there was NOTHING special about you, and while you played with truly great players like Dominique and Michael, you were never one of them and until you understand the pressure that comes with that level of expectation, I suggest you stay quiet, or just find a rocking chair and root for the Heat. Either way, I speak for all REAL Hawks fans when I say that I’m glad that Joe is captain of the Atlanta Hawks and he’s a much more special player than you ever were.
Speaking of special players, uhm bottomline, you need to remember something about Kobe, LeBrone, and Paul Pierce. Yes, they are great players, but they play on teams that have been deep into the playoffs, with veterans that have fought the wars. The Hawks have good players, but they can either play up big or disappear altogether. Other teams take their chances on everyone else, but they focus in on Joe each and every night. Try that with LeBron and Ilgauskas could have a big night or Joe Smith or Mo Williams, the list on that team goes on. Oh, why don’t you throw a triple team on Kobe. Darn that’s right, you’d have Pau Gasol, Derek Fisher, Lamar Odom, Bynum, and a cast of thousands to hand you your backside. Oh, and bottomline, the last time I checked, your precious Chris Paul, he and the Hornets were hanging on for dear life because the Denver Nuggets are taking them out behind the woodshed and giving them the business. Oh, and if you do find Chris Paul, you might want to help him find his backside because over the last few games it’s been ripped out of the fram.
Lastly, Jeff Schultz. I’ll be honest with you. I do believe that there’s greatness in Joe Johnson, and it frustrates me that we don’t see it more, particularly at times like this, but I have NEVER questioned his heart or desire or work ethic. He might not be great, but there’s no question in my mind that he’s doing the best he can. What about you, what are you doing? There were so many good stories from last night. Za Za grabbing eighteen rebounds, Bibby willing the Hawks over the hump, Josh Smith jumping into the rafters to get a game changing rebound. And if you HAD to write about Joe Johnson, why couldn’t you write about the way that he was out there playing on a bum wheel the entire fourth quarter. Can you put aside being the cynic for a few brief seconds and be fan enough to rally this city behind a team that bled and sweat for it all year, never more than in this series? You’re a capable writer with many positive atributes, but I think that it was despicable of you to write this article, particularly now.
Now, I don’t know about the rest of you, but I love this team, and Joe Johnson has my confidence. That’s my opinion. No one else need adhere.
HAWKS FAN
April 28th, 2009
9:52 pm
Yea Barkley does speak his mind…but thats not fair how he judges JJ based off a couple of games. He always bashes the Hawks so im sure he didnt watch many Hawks games this season so he’s just suming up JJ’s game off a couple games WTF!!! But this is what happens when you have your best player averging just about 40 mins a night so im not surprised that he dosent have anything left in the tank. Willie i agree that Josh needs to stop taking those jumpers and stick to what he is best at which is driving so hang in there Hawks!!!!!
DrewCat
April 28th, 2009
9:55 pm
Lol sorry Schultz! Great article though, LETS GO HAWKS!
STATS, LLC
April 28th, 2009
9:55 pm
FACT: John Smith leads the NBA in 45-footer attempts…and whining.
RA
April 28th, 2009
10:02 pm
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. -Theodore Roosevelt 1910
Woodhead
April 28th, 2009
10:16 pm
Joe leads the league in minutes played, and he plays hard minutes. Who guards the best player on the opposing team? JJ! What offensive “play” do the Hawks seem to run every single time? Isolation-Joe!! Blame it on Woody, not Joe, who doesn’t make excuses or blame. He’s not Lebron, but when he’s fresh and not carrying the team on both ends of the floor by himself, he is a very special player.
cwm
April 28th, 2009
10:20 pm
I was in miami for the game and joe stepped up when we needed the big shot LETS GO HAWKS SHOW OUR WHITE TEEES
calico
April 28th, 2009
10:27 pm
I see people still talking about Josh but Josh has outplayed Joe even with the ill advised shots just think where we would be if Josh was playing as bad as Joe- Joe has to step up simple and plain.
HAWKS FAN
April 28th, 2009
10:34 pm
I agree that josh has outplayed joe but at the same time his role is not as big as joe’s. Josh’s role is to play defense, rebound, and drive. joe has to do basically just about everything. Im not making excuses for joe because he does need to step up but you have to understand that he has a huge load on him to put up many points.
JJ Backer
April 28th, 2009
10:55 pm
bottomline -
CP3 where for art thou? His team is in the process of losing 4 games to 1.
His team just got beat by 58 at home in a playoff game.
In a game that could have evened up the series (and again, at home) – dude shot 2 of 7, finished with 4 points, 6 assists and 6 turnovers.
Let’s not drop his name right about now, huh?
HAWKS FAN
April 28th, 2009
10:59 pm
Yea saw those hightlights on sportscenter and CP3 should feel embarassed for himself and his team but he’s human so he’s gonna have an off night here and there (he just chose the wrong night to have it) lol
Dan
April 28th, 2009
11:15 pm
I think we are getting a little carried away with this “Joe Johnson is not an elite player” BS. Who are the elite players? Kobe, LeBron, Wade, and…..Tony Parker,maybe? There are not that many elite players out there. Joe Johnson is an All Star and he has been the main reason why the Hawks have risen so far the last few years. We would not be looking forward to a game 5 tomorrow with out him. So, let’s lay off him a little bit.
He playes a smart game yesterday. He never forced a shot, set his teammates up with good looks, and played good D. He has played better, I agree, but this idea that he has choked or fallen apart is just a load of crap.
I know the local writers do not know hoops well (not counting Sekou Smith), but I expected more from the fans.
bottomline
April 28th, 2009
11:27 pm
I agree CP3 has disappeared in this series…..anybody here would not RATHER have him on this roster than Marvin? Hmmmm….anyone???
Flappin' Hawk
April 28th, 2009
11:51 pm
Dan – Your on the money.
JJ is not an elite player and never will be, but I love the guy because he is a great and humble player. Like Dan said, there are only a handfull of “elite” players out there. So crying about not having one or saying we need to go out and get one is a waste of time. You don’t just go out and get one. If you don’t have an elite player the only way to go far in the playoffs is with a strong defense and great roll players, i.e. the Pistons until the last 2 years. The Hawks are a servicable center and a driving guard away from what they need.
JJ is hobbled by a bad ankle, so he’s struggling. But you won’t see him cry about it like Wade and his dramatics. JJ will never be an elite player. He will always be just below that level and that’s still pretty dam* good. I mean the guy made the Olympic Team.
Let’s put Miami out of their misery and move on to the Cavs so we can all start complaining about Lebron touch fouls.
J.J.M.
April 29th, 2009
1:34 am
bottomline you sound like charles barkley
Rick Sund
April 29th, 2009
2:25 am
I hope you all like my opinion in the article. I know what I am talking about because I have been in the league for 30 years.
J. Carter
April 29th, 2009
5:03 am
Don’t forget that Joe Johnson leads the league in minutes played, so he’s got to be tired now. Woodson needs to find a way to ease his workload. I don’t know what you guys consider as elite, but JJ has the potential to be a Top 10 player. He’s got the toughness, the athletic ability and the drive. For now, though, there’s still about 4 other players on the team that I’d want shooting the ball instead of Joe when the game’s on the line.
Just A Fan
April 29th, 2009
6:24 am
Joe is hesitant on his moves. He seems to be thinking too much into his shots. He needs to start simple and start from there. His rolodex is stacked but he’s so determined he’s thinking too much into it. He needs to settle down and let the game come to him. He will prevail…
I didn’t buy the only Joe Johnson authentic home hawks jersey at the nba store in NYC for nothing!!!!!
Let’s get together and do it boys….
GO HAWKS
TJB
April 29th, 2009
7:12 am
What Barkley said was that he wasn’t an elite player because he couldn’t shoot. He said he should be in the gym shooting 200-300 (he might have said 2000-3000) jump shots every day
ATL_LOVE
April 29th, 2009
7:33 am
Man I love and support Joe as much as the next Hawks fan but SERIOUSLY THIS IS AN ALARMING TREND not an exception:
“In seven playoff games since, Johnson has scored 21, 15, 16, 15, 16, 10 and 14, shooting 37.4 percent (37-of-99).”
If it’s rest or an injury, that needs to be fixed but we cannot continue to have our leader put up those kinds of numbers ON A REGULAR BASIS and be successful.
Love for the guy aside, you’re fooling yourselves if you want to make excuses for that! Go Hawks.
SwATLBlackGuy
April 29th, 2009
7:33 am
none of this would be said if Joe was a white man.
smartguy
April 29th, 2009
8:17 am
SwATL, you’re right, if JJ was white he wouldn’t even be in the league.
I would trade him, and FIRE WOODY.
Dr. Warren
April 29th, 2009
8:23 am
If one superstar (Wade) doesn’t end it for them, keep in mind the next is coming like an oncoming train. (Lebron). Johnson is no Wade or Lebron. Hell, he’s not even Tony Parker. Not even close.
When are we gonna get a bonafide SUPERSTAR in Atlanta? Dominique was the last one, and Maravich the only one before him.
Westurd
April 29th, 2009
8:26 am
RA, well said above in reference to JJ, Hawks Fans, and the love for the HAWKS. I agree 100% with all of it glad it was already written so I didn’t have to jump on it. As a HAWKS fan I want to see another big game by the team and not so much one player (Unless its a bunch of J. Smoove highlights half court alley opps)
-SEE YOU TONIGHT IN PHILLIPS-
Westurd
April 29th, 2009
8:28 am
With Marvin sidelined during this round is anyone starting to realize he is more and more expendable…….Is Joe too?
WR
April 29th, 2009
8:32 am
SwATLBlackGuy, it doesn’t matter if Joe is black or White a captain is supposed to lead, if he is the hawks so called captain he should be leading and he’s not plain and simple, but on second thought maybe he is leading, leading the hawks right out of the playoffs. Dirk is considered the leader of his team and he’s a white guy, he layed back in the bushes while Dallas built a 3 to 1 series lead over the Spurs they didn’t need him to build that lead. With their backs against the wall the Spurs came alive in hopes of keeping the series going so guess what Dallas needed, its Superstar to come alive and if you watched the game the Superstar delivered. Same principle for Joe, the Hawks are now good enough to stay in games, but they don’t have a true streak buster, clutch preformer, or the one guy who delivers when all else is failing. When a superstars shots are not falling he takes the ball to the rim and piles up free-throws, not Joe, when teams go on scoring runs a superstar puts an end to it, not Joe,when the team is hanging their heads a superstar raises his higher, not Joe, when a team’s youth causes alot of confusion and adversity a superstar puts the team on his back and leads, not Joe. In conclusion here is a perfect example of the difference between a superstar or captain and Joe Johnson, after Miami lost game one reporters interviewing Dwayne Wade asked was the lost due to the youth on his team, Wade responded its my fought, these guys needed me to be more vocal and I wasn’t, but we will get that corrected, as you can see they did. Joe’s response to similar questions is always we’re young, we have alot of young guys on our team, our youth is causing alot of the break downs, well that youth has been playing well but I ask where is Joe Johnson the captain of the youth. In the words of Micheal Jackson “it doesn’t matter if your black or white” and heres a little something I got from my departed grandfather over 15 years ago which applies to Joe now “he’s letting his mouth write checks his a$$ can’t cash”.
WR
April 29th, 2009
8:33 am
Smartguy, just noticed your post, GOOD ONE
Terrell
April 29th, 2009
8:56 am
Do you know what’s so funny? Chirs Paul, as someone just said, is a “great player” but his team is down 3-1. Guess being a great player is not good enough. SWAtlBlackGuy, considering most of the players in the league are black you point is invalid. I do believe this is a sign of fatigue from JJ however. JJ played the second most minutes in the regular season while missing 3 games. He’s logged in more minutes than Lebron, Chris, Paul, D-Wade, Bryant: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=nbaminutes&qual=true&sort=mins&league=nba&split=0&season=2009&seasontype=2&avg=none&pos=all
Terrell
April 29th, 2009
9:09 am
Oh WR, I respect what your late grandfather, bless his soul, old saying was, but Joe Johnson doesn’t talk so how can his mouth write a check his butt can’t cash?
Chris
April 29th, 2009
9:09 am
I don’t know if I am remembering this correctly, but it seems that when Joe was out for several games, Marvin was scoring something like 20 ppg. The ball seems to move better when Joe isn’t in there. He is an all star, not a superstar.
Another question – who was the better pick from the Florida national championship team? Early on it seemed to be Horford, but Noah looks pretty good out there.
DP
April 29th, 2009
9:09 am
I think part of Joe’s problem is that he’s constantly being forced to create his own shot because Bibby is so slow and can’t create offensively. So Joe ends up with the ball while Bibby is spotting up for open 3’s. Joe is showing that he is not a Wade or LeBron or Kobe who can create and make his own shot while also setting up others.
I think we need to accept what Joe is and try to find a quick, penetrating point guard to replace Bibby so Joe can work off the ball more.
mark
April 29th, 2009
9:13 am
all the things people are complaining about josh shooting long jumpers not taking the ball to the rack more. jj not stepping up like a superstar should. look at the offense the hawks run my wife said why do they keep number 5 so far away from the basket, when he is so good at driving the b. ball ask the coach. ask the coach why does he play jj 40 mins a nite during the reg. season and some of those compaints you take back. the hawks are where they in spite of mw, not because of him. put your players in the position where they can do good. watch carefully tonight and tell me where josh is line up in the offense, three point area.
Truth-serum
April 29th, 2009
9:20 am
bottomline
April 28th, 2009
9:05 pm
You really don’t understand basketball, I appreciate you.
You must have just started watching in the last few years or you would understand.
Cleveland does have a decent center, but just to help you get steered in the right direction, I must ask you, when did Cleveland become a final titlist?
If a team who is weak at the five spot, managed by a rare miracle to get to the championship round they would not win.
I’m sure there are exceptions to every rule. I’m sure somewhere at sometime by some miracle some team won something with out a center
.
But with me and other learned basketballers….let’s just keep it real.
WR
April 29th, 2009
9:27 am
Terrell, I somewhat agree with your assessment pertaining to fatigue, but Joe has had these same problems since hs’s been here whether dealing with fatigue or not. As much as I like Joe he lacks a killer instinct. Sadly to say thats just how it is for some players, Lamar Odom is the same type of player. He could be a superstar and the leader of a team, but thats not what he wants, so it works out really well for the lakers because they get a 6′10 freak of nature who can play every position on the floor and he is completely happy with filling up the stat sheets while doing the dirty work, you have to have those kind of players, but in order to win a championship you have to have at least one player who just plain out puts a team on his back if things are not going well. Magic,Bird,Erving,ONeal,Russell,Chamberlain,Jordan,Pierce,Garnett,Bryant,James, just to name a few. I think most people agree Joe is a good player, we just want to see some fire in his eyes every now and then, I mean have you seen this guy in person, he’s built like a tank so I know he can go in the post on top of that he can shoot, the guy should be unstoppable but he has to decide thats what he wants to be.
AtlSouthside
April 29th, 2009
9:29 am
The same thing that’s happening to Joe, happened to LT (from the Chargers). Joe damn near led the league in minutes played, so I’m quite sure he’s banged up… But of course he gets no compassion from the media (even the local media). Of course I wanna see Joe put up 25 every game, but its not realistic.. Especially when teams are double-teaming him, and there is not really another scoring threat on the Hawks roster…
If Josh would drive the ball more often, that would free-up Joe and force teams to play one-on-one… I don’t understand why Josh and Woody don’t get it… Drive the ball damn ball!
WR
April 29th, 2009
9:31 am
Terrell just noticed your post, I was referring to Joe saying he was going to step up for this playoff series, I know the comment seems a little blunt and I didn’t mean for it to sound so harsh but its a statement I carry with me everyday as a reminder of getting yourself in over your head, or not being able to back up what you say.
Truth-serum
April 29th, 2009
9:32 am
April 28th, 2009
9:05 pm
The hornets have a superstar, Chris Paul, but were crushed defensively by Denver. The hornets don’t have a good center.
When Z had a career day of 18 rebounds and actually intimidated opponents in the low post, the Hawks won a playoff game on the road for the first time in modern history. Do the math!
Yes, Schultz, I too would like to see JJ step his game up consistently. We now agree on two things: The hawk’s need a center, JJ needs to step his game up. I will add that if Z can play at the level he played Monday then problem solved. He may even get his starting job back.
Shout out to the Snowman!! You boy Z is the last games Hero. Good job. I’m missing your writings…..
O'brien
April 29th, 2009
9:49 am
There’s no excuse for missing his free throws, but there are 4 reasons why JJ is struggling.
1) Miami’s defensive scheme against him
2) No offensive system to get him easy shots
3) Not enough ball movement by the Hawks
4) Joe Johnson
We need to win tonight’s game, and this would be a great time for Joe to be Joe.
WR
April 29th, 2009
9:51 am
Now to get off Joe for a bit, could someone please send Josh a little note saying “state away from the 3 point line it is even, its your krytonite. For as much as we get on Joe, if Josh would just hang out on the block he would be unstoppable, I mean no one can guard this guy on the low block and we all know he doesn’t mind putting up a shot.
All I'm Saying Is...
April 29th, 2009
9:53 am
Joe Johnson is our best player and that’s why he is constantly double-teamed by the opposing club. The Celtics learned this the hard way (see Game 4 last year’s playoffs) and after that they always doubled Joe to force the ball out of Joe’s hands. Now if Joe tried to force his shot despite the double team, then all you bloggers would call him a selfish player.
Woodhead is right: the problem is Woody as he calls for the same isolation for Joe every time. The isolation worked to perfection in Game 4 of last year’s playoffs but the Celtics adjusted…and so has the rest of the league. Because of the make-up of our players — we do not have a dribble-drive/slash-and pass point guard in Bibby as he does not have a quick first step and can’t penetrate into the lane, Josh Smith is too inconsistent for the other team to worry about, Marvin is either not on the floor enough or out on the wing shooting 3s (which is fine), and Al is still developing a consistent low post game — whoever we play knows that it is all about one thing: don’t let Joe Johnson get going.
So what should we do? Get more out of our other starters. In the short-term, 1) Marvin needs to get his behind on the floor and play through the pain. 2) We need to run some set plays for Al Horford early to draw attention his way. 3) If Josh Smith elects to take a three instead of driving to the basket then we need to immediately take him out of the game, tell him why, and tell him that when he goes back in that if he does it again, then we will take him out of the game again. (Anybody who is a parent knows that the only way to correct bad behavior is to consistently apply punishment (with an explanation) as soon as it happens—its called consequences). With NBA players, playing time or the lack of it is the only thing that gets through to them.
In the offseason, I say we sit Joe and Al down and show them hours of film of Stockton and Malone and we tell them to do what they did. Next, we need to get an uptempo back-up point guard who can run the floor like Spud Webb did back in the day when he backed-up Doc Rivers. That change of pace throws off the other team and gives the Hawks more options (are you reading this Rick Sund?).
Joe Johnson is our guy and he is an outstanding player. The list of elite players in the NBA is a short one (Kobe and LeBron) and the fact is that those guys didn’t win in the playoffs until they got some help from the other starters who consistently played well to take some pressure off of them: Pau Gasol and Derek Fisher do that for Kobe. Mo Williams and Ilglauskas do that for LeBron. The key word is consistently play well to command attention. Right now, Josh does not do that, Bibby does not do that, Marvin does not do that, and neither does Al (though he is getting there).
AtlSouthside
April 29th, 2009
9:54 am
Everybody riding Joe’s coat-tail because he’s scoring below his average, but Wade is scoring below his average as well…
And besides, WHO GOT THE HAWKS TO THE PLAYOFFS?
T-Bone Calhoun
April 29th, 2009
9:54 am
Let’s rally around the Hawks – concluding Joe. Joe, get your butt in gear and let’s go!!!!!!
AtlSouthside
April 29th, 2009
9:56 am
Zaza needs to start. Let Josh start at SF. Or bench Horford, he’s a bigger disappointment than Joe.
T-Bone Calhoun
April 29th, 2009
9:56 am
Correction, including Joe.
Hawk Fan
April 29th, 2009
9:56 am
I dont agree that you have to have a superstar. Woody is from the Pistons school of play and they showed that if you play great D, then you dont need a superstar. Yes Billups, Wallace, Hamilton are very good players and have done it in the clutch but they are no better players than Joe (at least in the regular season).
The hawks just need to play great D, keep the game low scoring (ugly) and have someone make the clutch play down the stretch. They have done all these things but just not consistently. Joe makes clutch plays down the stretch in the regular season, just not in the playoffs (except one game last year).
AtlSouthside
April 29th, 2009
9:57 am
It’s funny how when black athletes struggle, the media is quick to bring up how much they are getting paid….
Brian Hunt
April 29th, 2009
10:02 am
Joe Johnson isn’t an elite player, but I’m not sure that he has to be in order for the Hawks to get it done. Last I checked, he wasn’t playing the other team by himself. Woodson needs to keep these guys playing their roles ala the Pistons and they’ll continue to evolve and get it done by playing TEAM basketball.
LS
April 29th, 2009
10:04 am
IMO, I think that Johnson should focus on one thing: defending Dwyane Wade. He should invest all of his energy into that. Don’t worry about scoring, he’s got other guys who can help the team in that department. He should be there, make open shots, but not worry about creating shots for himself or others. If he can contain Wade, the Heat have no chance.
http://www.dailysportspages.com/forums/register.php?referrerid=811
WR
April 29th, 2009
10:10 am
AtlSouthside, do you remember Jon Koncak, because any real hawks fan remembers Jon Koncak, and trust me the hawks got a heck of a lot less out of him then they did Joe, and what he was making was always an issue, guess what he’s white, get off the race issue, everything is not black and white, alot of things are, but not everything and not this.
Reality Check
April 29th, 2009
10:12 am
Effective Immediatly!!!!
because of the Azz Licking the Chauncey is putting on CP3, The folks in Atlanta are no longer allowed to use him as an example of all that is wrong with the Hawks!! He is getting beat like he stole something and his team is getting embarrased. NO MORE CP3 MENTIONS!!!
Ricardo
April 29th, 2009
10:19 am
WR -
That is a dumb thing to say for 3 reasons -
1. Jon “Contract” wasn’t supposed to be a superstar, just a good player. Joe is the supposed superstar player and as such the burden of responsibility to carry the Hawks falls, in large part, on him. Koncak was never viewed as a superstar.
2. If you are a “real Hawks fan” as you claim, you’d remember that Koncak caught a ton of grief for not living up to his contract.
3. Koncak wasn’t paid $70 mill like Joe.
Don’t go to the race issue over this. Trying to compare Joe Johnson to Jon Contract is simply silly.
Don’t get me wrong, I have no love for Koncak, but let’s be fair.
Ricardo
April 29th, 2009
10:20 am
WR -
My apologies, I misread your post. Sorry about that!
AtlSouthside
April 29th, 2009
10:22 am
it’s not about race….but it’s interesting how certain players (especially in the MLB) are overpaid, yet when they “struggle” the media doesn’t jump on how much they are getting paid. Chipper Jones is a prime example of that…
David
April 29th, 2009
10:30 am
I totally agree he isn’t an elite player in terms of his competitive drive.
I will defend him and say that most teams with the elite players look to those players to score 30+ (D Wade, Kobe, James, Pierce etc…) but the Hawks don’t necessarily need that, they are a very balanced team. But they do need him to score in the 20s and shoot in the high 40 % wise.
heartofdarkness
April 29th, 2009
10:31 am
The Hawks are an oddly constructed team, as several commentors have noted. Other than JJ, the only consistent penetrator on the team is Ronald Murray, and I believe he has had a very good year with the Hawks. For a team as small, relatively, as Atlanta, they do not run or convert pressure defense into open court opportunities as much as one might expect. Were JJ paired with another player with his versatility offensively, which forces a physical mismatch no matter how you guard him, JJ might score more due to easier opportunities. Coupled with JJ’s defensive intensity, the combo would be quite formidable.
I note the article makes little mention of JJ’s all-round contributions, which is typical of NBA-think, where each game has to unfold as if it were a Hollywood script to keep the audience satisfied.
bottomline
April 29th, 2009
10:31 am
You can always tell it’s an NBA blog because RACE is inevitably mentioned.
Truth serum…BOSTON won a title LAST year WITHOUT a true center (KG is NOT a center…he is a 4). This year, I have a hunch that either LA or Cleveland will win a title…WITHOUT a true center.
Not know basketball? Please boy…I have coached this game for 14+ years, won titles, and sent several players to college. I say that not to brag because I was blessed with great kids and I worked hard to get better every year. But don’t you dare question my knowledge of this game. Am I a NBA diehard? No. I prefer the college game and atmosphere…but I see a team winning AGAIN this year WITHOUT that BONAFIDE center you were ranting about.
David
April 29th, 2009
10:39 am
AtlSouthside—-when players struggle, they are all open to scrutiny. Chipper Jones is a Hall of Famer, he has earned a pass every now and then. Francoeur is a better example. You think people haven’t hammered him …..and he is a hometown guy! Joe Johnson has done NOTHING for this franchise, it’s time to step up and earn it.
J Dub
April 29th, 2009
10:45 am
I like many other Hawks fans want Joe to score 30 every night but agree with other posters that have said it is unrealistic. He plays a million minutes during the regular season and more minutes than any other player in the playoffs. Complainers are saying that LeBron, Kobe, D Wade, they all step up when their teams need them. Joe steps up too, maybe not in the point category, but stats are sometimes overrated. The fact that he draws double teams helps other players. The only thing worse than your superstar not taking over a game is watching your superstar try to take over a game with double coverage and trying to jack up impossible shots. Furthermore, it is not fair to compare Joe to Kobe, LeBron, and D Wade. These are truly special special players. Joe is a gifted athlete that can lead our team. We have a lot of role players on our team and that I like. ZaZa is fun to watch (loved when he squared up on KG last year), Josh is a gifted athlete (without the jumper), Bibby is playing solid point guard play, Horford is better than our coaching staff gives him credit for appararently (judging by the lack of involvement in the offense sometimes), Flip is as close to a dominating one on one player as we have, and Joe is a quiet leader. He will step up tonight and we will win this series.
AtlSouthside
April 29th, 2009
10:51 am
David = Joe Johnson has done NOTHING for this franchise, it’s time to step up and earn it.
Do you really think that? If so, you don’t watch the games at all. Joe Johnson has an all-around game. Without him the Hawks are horrible, and they are not a 4th seed in the East without him, as well.
And Chipper Jones? Out of 14 years in the baseball they guy has probably had 4 good seasons (full seasons). Chipper Jones gets a pass all the time, not because he so great, but because he is the Braves’ Golden Boy. (Lets not forget that as a rookie Chipper came to a championship team)
J Dub
April 29th, 2009
10:52 am
ATL Southside, that is one of the dumbest analogies I have ever read. Saying that certain MLB players don’t get criticized when they are slumping. Did you not read the blog on the Braves site currently criticiing Kelly Johnson for slumping? I know exactly where you are going with the analogy and it is stupid. How about some specific examples? Who has not been criticized that should have been? Chipper has been criticized in the past at times. You don’t hear about baseball players getting blamed as much because of the length of season, etc. A slump in the MLB is different than a slump in the NBA. Chipper could go hitless for 10 straight games and finish with a .320 batting average which is what he has done consistently. All team leaders are criticized from time to time. I just got finished defending Joe in my previous post but it is absolutely ludacrous to make the leap that you are making with your underhanded observation.
All I'm Saying Is...
April 29th, 2009
10:55 am
Bottom Line: I have to disagree with you: PJ Brown and Perkins were the centers for Celtics last year and both were true centers according to my definition: low post game players (not three point shooters) who rebound and play rugged defense. The Lakers did not have Bynum to play ‘true’ center for them and that’s what contributed to their losing the series. The Pistons won the title when they had Ben Wallace as their center (as true a center as their is) and have not won a title since. Cleveland’s Ilglauskas is a true center because he has a low post back to the basket offensive game but they ask him to step out and shoot the J which he can also do. Dwight Howard is clearly a true center. Denver’s Nene is a true center and his consistency along with the addition of Billups is why they are so successful this year versus last year. New Orleans has Tyson Chandler and he is a true center.
And furthermore, here are the NBA Champions going all the way back to 1979—tell me which team did not have a ‘true’ center (using my definition)
2007-08 Boston Celtics 4-2 over LA – Brown/Perkins
2006-07 San Antonio Spurs 4-0 over Cavaliers – Duncan
2005-06 Miami Heat 4-2 over Mavericks – Shaq
2004-05 San Antonio Spurs 4-3 over Detroit Pistons – Duncan
2003-04 Detroit Pistons 4-1 over Lakers – Wallace
2002-03 San Antonio Spurs 4-2 over New Jersey Nets – Duncan
2001-02 Los Angeles Lakers 4-0 over New Jersey Nets – Shaq
2000-01 Los Angeles Lakers 4-1 over Philadelphia 76ers – Shaq
1999-00 Los Angeles Lakers 4-2 over Indiana Pacers – Shaq
1998-99 San Antonio Spurs 4-1 over New York Knicks – David Robinson
1997-98 Chicago Bulls 4-2 over Utah Jazz – Cartwright
1996-97 Chicago Bulls 4-2 over Utah Jazz – Cartwright
1995-96 Chicago Bulls 4-2 over Seattle SuperSonics – Cartwright
1994-95 Houston Rockets 4-0 over Orlando Magic – Hakeem
1993-94 Houston Rockets 4-3 over New York Knicks – Hakeem
1992-93 Chicago Bulls 4-2 over Phoenix Suns – Cartwright
1991-92 Chicago Bulls 4-2 over Portland Trail Blazers – Cartwright
1990-91 Chicago Bulls 4-1 over Los Angeles Lakers – Cartwright
1989-90 Detroit Pistons 4-1 over Portland Trail Blazers – Mahorn
1988-89 Detroit Pistons 4-0 over Los Angeles Lakers – Mahorn
1987-88 Los Angeles Lakers 4-3 over Detroit Pistons – Kareem
1986-87 Los Angeles Lakers 4-2 over Boston Celtics – Kareem
1985-86 Boston Celtics 4-2 over Houston Rockets – Robert Parish
1984-85 Los Angeles Lakers 4-2 over Boston Celtics – Kareem
1983-84 Boston Celtics 4-3 over Los Angeles Lakers – Robert Parish
1982-83 Philadelphia 76ers 4-0 over Los Angeles Lakers – Moses
1981-82 Los Angeles Lakers 4-2 over Philadelphia 76ers – Kareem
1980-81 Boston Celtics 4-2 over Houston Rockets – Robert Parish
1979-80 Los Angeles Lakers 4-2 over Philadelphia – Kareem
AtlSouthside
April 29th, 2009
11:00 am
J-Dub: Chipper could go hitless for 10 straight games and finish with a .320 batting average which is what he has done consistently.
** Yes, because there are a million games per season. And Chip sits out an average of 30 games.
ATL_LOVE
April 29th, 2009
11:02 am
Hawks Fan- you may be on to something. Maybe our problem is Woody is trying to reconstruct the Pistons without the right pieces (e.g. a huge 2 like Billups causing mismatch problems, a consistent inside/outside threat like Hamilton, a fierce competitor like Rasheed, a cagey hustling vet like Prince doing all the dirty work). Hmmm. Maybe he needs to let the Hawks be the Hawks. Work with what ya got Woody.
Point # B: Woody needs to get Mario in some games to spell Joe on the superstar- even if it’s only for some good D and hard fouls. Joe’s minutes would go down and Wade’s frustration level would go up.
J Dub
April 29th, 2009
11:04 am
ATL = “And Chipper Jones? Out of 14 years in the baseball they guy has probably had 4 good seasons (full seasons). Chipper Jones gets a pass all the time, not because he so great, but because he is the Braves’ Golden Boy. (Lets not forget that as a rookie Chipper came to a championship team)”
Are you kidding me?? 4 good seasons? I see your “full seasons” comment. How about this for facts?
Chipper has 9 seasons of 140+ games. 2 more of 130+ games. 05, 06, 08 were injury prone seasons and I will admit that I don’t expect him to give him 140+ again. As for 4 good seasons…..during those 9 140+ seasons, he has hit over .300 7 times, 30+ hr 6 times, NEVER had less than 21 homers, 8 100+ RBI (96 the other year), and 5 15+ stolen base seasons. He is a 6X all star, 2X silver slugger (if you know what that award is), MVP in 99, NL Batting champ in 0.
To recap, he had 8 consecutive 100 RBI seasons, 14 consecutive 20+ HR seasons, Most home runs in a season by a switch hitter (NL), 3rd most homeruns by a switch hitter, and how about 8 seasons producing 100+ runs? Career .310 average, 408 HR, 1374 RBI, 1378 runs, 2277 hits, and 138 steals…..Need I say more???
Not a great player?????
AtlSouthside
April 29th, 2009
11:12 am
(I hate when people Copy & Paste stats on blogs)
The baseball season is 160+ games. If you can’t put up stats batting 3rd in the line-up, you suck…. Chipper Jones is a good player, never said he wasn’t. my point is that he gets too many passes
Back to basketball (Atlanta Hawks): Joe needs Josh to drive the damn ball, he Josh does that, it will force Miami out of the double team
All I'm Saying Is...
April 29th, 2009
11:21 am
Please take the Braves smackdown over to the Braves blog….as AtlSouthside said: Back to basketball……..During this season, JJ slated to make (per USA Today NBA Salary Database) $14.23 million, Bibby $14.98 million, and JSmoove $10.0 million and they are the three highest paid players on the team (after a big drop, Speedy — don’t get me started on him — is next at $5.75 million and then Marvin at $5.63 million)………so, JJ gets criticized heavily and his salary is brought up because he is one of our two highest paid players and, except for last years playoff series versus the Celtics, he has not been clutch in the ‘09 playoffs when great players make their ‘bones’ and when you need your best players the most——-this ain’t about race people, its about performance. If he is hurting and still putting himself out there, then we need to acknowledge that but guess what: that’s what great players have to do in the playoffs…if you’re walking, then you’re playing (hear me, Marvin?) because you have the whole off-season to catch up on your rest.
By the way, if anybody wants to jump off the Hawks bandwagon, now is the time. I know the load got might light when pretenders and fake fans jumped off after game three but, you know what, we don’t need your sorry arses back now that the series is tied 2-2. LET’S GO HAWKS!
AtlSouthside
April 29th, 2009
11:28 am
I think the HAWKS get it done tonight… Zaza is the answer for JO. Moon is out for the postseason… And Wade is “hurt”
J Dub
April 29th, 2009
11:32 am
Your boy ATL South is the one who brought the Braves into the Hawks Blog…..as for the Hawks bandwagon, I have been a member since Jon Koncak so I am not jumping off now.
RickNole
April 29th, 2009
11:40 am
Can we have at least one blog that does not mention race? Some of you people really need counseling.
AtlSouthside
April 29th, 2009
11:48 am
I was a youngster when Koncak played for the Hawks, sadly all I remember all the guy is that he was sorry as hell… What a legacy!
Does anyone think (like me) that ZaZa should start over Horford? Horford is weak like wet toilet tissue. Tired of seeing him settle for jump shots.
And I’m also tired of the weak [butt] offense Woody is running, where the Center gets the ball at the top of the key. If anything, that helps the opposing defense.
Hollywould
April 29th, 2009
11:53 am
Jeff, What did you think of the cheap shot last nite by Rondo? Boston
people are justifing it. I think he should be suspended.
All I'm Saying Is...
April 29th, 2009
11:56 am
Since you were boy when Jon Kontract played for the Hawks let me say this: he was a good player in college at SMU (I saw him in a televised game and he had game (yes, I know its hard to believe)) and played well enough at a position where the the Hawks were thin and had been since Tree Rollins retired that the Hawks felt compelled to pay him instead of lose him (you can thank Stan Kasten for that deal, yes, the same Stan Kasten who is now the brains behind the Washington Nationals—sorry to bring up MLB but its true). Glad you are staying on board J Dub…and I’ve been riding and rolling with the Hawks since Hubie Brown was our coach (and he’s still the best one we have ever had).
Westurd
April 29th, 2009
11:58 am
There is always a million things to complain about, but being 2-2 with home court advantage is something to really rally behind……..I got my HAWKS tickets for tonight, you got yours yet?
LETS GET IT DONE HAWKS!!!!
All I'm Saying Is...
April 29th, 2009
11:59 am
Rondo did what had to be done in that situation as you cannot let a player have an uncontested lay-up especially when the game is on the line (Are you listening Hawks? Defense is how we win tonight’s game and game six!). Brad Miller is a punk-arse hypocrite if he complains given how he conducts himself on the court.
RickNole
April 29th, 2009
11:59 am
Atlsoutside
I agree, I think Zaza should start tonight. Noticed the tone of the game changed when Zaza came into the game, he was grinding it out and getting the best of JO. Horford kept shooting ill-advised jumpers.
AtlSouthside
April 29th, 2009
11:59 am
i graduated from hs with Tree Rollins’ nephew…dude use to have all the hawks throwback jerseys and warms up.
Westurd
April 29th, 2009
11:59 am
Hollywould, Rondo’s fouls was dirty and flagrant and no where near the ball. Almost knocked Millers teeth out. Should have been a flagrant, but there will def be no suspension for it. Its the F-ing champs were talking about.
AtlSouthside
April 29th, 2009
12:01 pm
I hate to see big guys shoot jumpers, even in pick-up basketball, it makes you wanna take a belt and spank em…
It’s like dude “who in the hell is gonna get the rebound if the tallest cats on the court are taking jump shots”
J Dub
April 29th, 2009
12:03 pm
I don’t have a problem with ZaZa starting. Hear me out and tell me if this lineup is too crazy….How about ZaZa at Center and Horford at the 4? Smith, Johnson, and Bibby…..maybe crazy but worth a look. My first memories of the Hawks, I am a youngster I guess, were Koncak, Rasmussen, Nique, Spud, Doc, etc…..Loved the old uni’s.
Hollywould – I thought the cheap shot by Rondo was pretty blatant. He is much smaller than Miller but he really laid into him. Miller was readjusting his jaw for the next 5 minutes. First off, the sheer slowness that Miller had in attacking the basket was atrocious. The lane opened up like the red sea but by time he reached the basket, he was getting mugged.
Westurd
April 29th, 2009
12:04 pm
Tall dudes taking jumpers makes me wince in agony. Being a little man on the court myself I just wish I could be big one game and show all these big men how a big is supposed to play………and now back to HAWKS talk…..8 HOURS UNTIL TIP!! Tonight HAWKS get it DONE!
J Dub
April 29th, 2009
12:05 pm
Agreed ATL South – I play in a local city league and we have one guy that is 6′9 and the rest of us are stumps. He hangs out around the 3 point arc all night while the point and shooting guards are trying to board up. I think it is weak!!
Hollywould
April 29th, 2009
12:07 pm
I agree that you don’t give layups but you do not crack someone in the mouth to stop it. That is called flagrant. Did you see the play? Woodson should learn how to diagram a play like that. it wes perfect.
Celtics tripled Gordon and they left Miller alone. Rondo knew he was beat and came nowhere close to the ball. If that had been the other way around all hell would have broken loose. Just sayin
J Dub
April 29th, 2009
12:13 pm
I don’t think Mr. Congeniality (Miller) will have any problem making a statement during the next game if Rondo comes in the lane. He is a knucklehead that usually doesn’t even need a reason to hack someone but now he has one.
All I'm Saying Is...
April 29th, 2009
12:14 pm
Hollywould: You are probably too young to know but the NBA Playoffs have been played the way Rondo hacked Miller (i.e. no uncontested layups) for years….long time ago in the 1970s Paul Westphal was the star with the Phoenix Suns and he got absolutely violated by Rick Robey with the Celtics in the NBA Finals and no such thing as a flagrant foul even existed and certainly was not even thought about.
Get with the program people—Grown men play in the NBA and its during the playoffs when you find out who the grown men are.
All Miller had to do was hit his free throws, the game goes into overtime, and the Bulls still could have stolen a victory. It’s not like he landed on his back like Gordon did in the last game and had to shoot free throws right after.
Hollywould
April 29th, 2009
12:15 pm
J Dub, You are right/ that was the slowest drive(or so-called drive) I have ever seen.
Hollywould
April 29th, 2009
12:20 pm
All I’m saying, You are wrong on this one. For one, I remember John Drew, Fast Eddie, Sweet Lou, Roundfield, levingston, Carr. I am probably older than most on this blog. I don’t care what the situation is( no mouth shots) Did you see the ref when Del Negro was arguing?
He motioned that he hit the top of Miller’s head even while watching the blood come out of his mouth. That grown men saying is crap.
AtlSouthside
April 29th, 2009
12:26 pm
(on big men taking jump shots) I think its a bad reflection on Woody how Josh Smith continues to take jumpers. And then he sits there with his arms folded… I wanna see Woody get in Josh’s face one good time. He HAS TO BE scared of Josh, thats the only logical reason he allows Josh to keep taking jumpers.
(Sometimes I think Josh tries to compete with Joe for title of leader)
Jeff Schultz
April 29th, 2009
12:27 pm
RA – I hope I didn’t suggest that I question Joe’s heart or desire. I think just some athletes have a knack for stepping it up in post-season, and some don’t.
Dan – the word “elite” is subjective, like anything else. Everybody has a different definition. Some might think there’s only a handful of elite players in the league.
DP – you have a good point on Bibby (no pun intended). He’s not a true point guard. But he’s played pretty well in this series.
Truth – We agree on 2 things? There’s hope for the world yet!
Hollywould – Honestly, had other things going on last night and didn’t see the game (or the highlight). But here’s my general view: playoffs are more physical and SHOULD be more physical. I covered some of those old Lakers-Celtics finals with Bird/Magic. Back the Eastern Conference (Celtics, Pistons, Sixers, etc.) was nightly head-banging. I miss that, actually.
All I'm Saying Is...
April 29th, 2009
12:33 pm
Well put, Shultz.
And, yes, Hollywould, I did see the play and I stand by my comment that Miller is a pansy if he is complaining: I’ve seen people smaller than him get hit much harder than he did in the playoffs when they tried to take it to the hole and, you know what, the smart ones knew what was coming when they ventured into the lane, got up after getting hacked, dusted themselves off, hit their free throws, and won the flippin’ game….and then complained about the call—which is fine if you do your job, make your free throws, and win.
So, I say again, get with the program: Grown men play in the NBA and its during the playoffs when you find out who the grown men are. If you can’t stand the pain, stay out of the lane!
All I'm Saying Is...
April 29th, 2009
12:50 pm
BTW, if Rondo ventures into the lane seeking a layup or a dunk, then he should expect and receive a hack-an-hit-the-deck-omy (as opposed to an appendectomy—yes, I know I’m quite the wit (typically half or nit)). That’s the way it goes and the Celtics will respect the Bulls more if they support their guy Miller in that manner.
And when I say grown men, Hollywould, I mean no whiners—just shut and play and then you say all you want when you win. You look like a baby when you complain because something did not go your way. I mean a foul was called, right? No Celtic player contested his free throws, right? The Bulls had other chances to win the game, right?
WR
April 29th, 2009
12:56 pm
Atlsouthside just hit it dead on the head with the Josh and Joe scenario. Josh does try to compete with Joe for the title of leader, problem is he does’t get the fact that he would be considered the leader if he kept his butt down in the post. Joe nor anyone else in the league has his physical attributes whether he’s playing at the SF or PF position. This guy is not only Karl Malone but he’s Dominique,Worthy,a sprinkle of Pippen, with a little Sir Charles all in one package, but it starts down in the post. It might sound crazy to some but for all the praise Lebron gets its his commitment to playing within his game and developing his weaknesses that impress me. Josh has unworldly talent but he refuses to play within his game and develop his weaknesses. As an example I will offer this, most people agree our last Superstar was Nique, if you tracked the hawks from the time he arrived until he finished his career you noticed that Nique’s game started in the post, as he continued to excel in the post he begin to develop his outside game and before long he was an unstoppable force. Some of the younger fans may not know it but when Nique was at the top of his game, Jordan, Bird, nor Magic could come into the Omni without a war taking place, Dominique wouldn’t have it. Josh could be the same type of player if not better but he chooses not to play within his game and develop his weaknesses as time passes, which is what the great ones do.
Hollywould
April 29th, 2009
1:20 pm
All, I guess we will agree to disagree on this one. I don’t care how big you are/ If I hit you in the mouth I guarantee you will feel it.
Hell, Dwight Howard might be suspended also for his elbow but I doubt it as some players and arenas are above the law. Anyway, I am thru
GO HAWKS
Hollywould
April 29th, 2009
1:21 pm
Enter your comments here
GoldenRichards
April 29th, 2009
1:21 pm
I think its ridiculous for people to be questioning Joe Johnsons status as an elite player. As it was noteworthily pointed out, last year in game 4 against Boston, Joe Johnson was literally unstoppable and torched Boston for 35 points. Joe could do this every night if he wanted to, but we have a team now and the other players take their turn scoring as well. I believe, Joe should now get selfish in terms of his own points and gun for 30 regardless of what his teammates are getting, but still take it within the team concept. If Joe gets doubled as in the past, dish it out to an open teammate. To give you a barometer as to how good Joe is, if Joe wanted to lead the league in scoring, Joe has the skills to lead the league in scoring if he chose to do that. In my opinion, Joe is the fourth best player in the league today, behind
D-Wade, Kobe and LaBron.
truth-serum
April 29th, 2009
1:43 pm
bottomline
April 29th, 2009
10:31 am
It is better to keep ones mouth closed and let others think you are ignorant than to open it and remove all doubt.
The Lakers have two centers, Bynum and Gasol with Mbenga in the background.
Kevin Garnett did man the 5 spot against Pachulia last year hence the pictures of Z looking up at him. They have added Perkins and Big baby to create Drama in the low post.
How’s that pee wee league working for you…If it doesn’t try a marble shooting tournament or kit flying…I heard you can win championships in kite flying with a center.
Good luck to you.
Schultz is it true that the sigh of a good team is when one man doesn’t have to do all the scoring….does that mean the team is balance and more dynamic?
OH That’s RIGHT YOU ARENT SPEAKING TO ME BECAUSE I CALLED YOU OUT FOR BEING A HATER….
truth-serum
April 29th, 2009
1:49 pm
All I’m Saying Is…
April 29th, 2009
10:55 am
EXCELLENT POST!
GumbyWilliams
April 29th, 2009
2:33 pm
Joe Johnson is a tremendous player. He is certainly on the hot seat right now and people are wondering where is he and why are the Hawks struggling to get past the Heat. The Heat are a very streaky and good team that have beat qualitiy teams down the stretch to get a good position in the playoffs. I know, however, that the Hawks are a much better team than the Heat although the records dont show much of a difference. Even though the Hawks are vastly improved, Ive watched the Hawks closely this year and realize that they should have won 50 games with the talent that was available to them. If the Hawks had been injury free, they could have won 60 games this year. That is approximately where the Hawks should have been although they finished with only 47 games, which is a 10 game improvement from last year, but still weak in the playoff field. To show how weak that number (47) is, had the hawks been in the Western conference they would have missed the playoffs entirely. ALL 8 TEAMS THAT QUALIFIED FOR THE PLAYOFFS IN THE WESTERN CONFERENCE have better records than the Hawks. In the weakened Eastern Conference, however, the Hawks finished in fourth place, but again should have won 50 games. All I am asking from the Hawks is that they play hard and play their best basketball. If they do that, that will be good enough to win a championship this year.
Fair is Fair
April 29th, 2009
2:54 pm
That was a blatant “flagrant foul” by Rondo. He SWUNG his arm and hit Miller IN THE HEAD = FLAGRANT FOUL. Yes the NBA used to be a lot rougher, especially during the playoffs. I loved it. But that was then and this is now. The NBA in their “wisdom” has since CHANGED THE RULES. They put in a rule SPECIFICALLY for the above mentioned situation. If they want to suspend the rule during the playoffs, great. But if they don’t, then the rule should be applied to everyone (including superstars) and at all times (end of a close game).
But anyone watching knows that the refs give preferential treatment to certain players and certain teams. NBA refs are the worst refs in professional sports. All you can ask from a ref in any sport is consistancy. But they call ticky-tack fouls for 5 minutes and then let people get mugged for the next 5 minutes. Soimething is a foul to the ref on one end of the court but not to the ref on the other end. Like I said, they are either horribly enept or on the take. And don’t say that is some conspiracy theory. One guy got caught but I am sure there are more.
Hollywould
April 29th, 2009
3:05 pm
Fair is Fair, Thanks man, I was beginning to believe I was seeing things. ALL is telling me he should accept the foul and don’t whine, be a man, bs. Name a player in the NBA who does not whine. Makes no sense.
He did not even try for the ball. He was trying to take him out and it did work but it was a cheap shot. Watch Wade tonite and tell me he doesn’t whine.
Dan
April 29th, 2009
3:23 pm
Jeff Schultz,
My other problem with this article is the talk of Joe’s contract. First off, he was worth every penny. Take Joe away for the last 4 years and let me know where you think the Hawks are….not playing tonight, I will tell you that much.
Also, if you think they did overpay for him (and I’m not sure if you do or not), what do you expect the Hawks to do? They were in a position where they were going to have to overypay for players. No one wanted to come here. So, they had to make a strong offer just to get attention from any free agent. Like it or not, that is the situation they were in. I’m not sure if that has changed or not…we’ll see.
Bringing his contract into the discussion just makes no sense. I get high paid players should be counted on to perform. I would argue that Joe has. And, even if he hasn’t, the Hawks did the right thing bringing him here. They had to show they were willing to compete. Paying big money was the only solution….
ZacheryGoldsmith
April 29th, 2009
3:42 pm
I dont agree with this article talking about Joe being an ordinary Joe. It is not true at all. Joe johnson IS A SUPERSTAR. he doesnt have to prove it right now because the Hawks have many stars on their team: Pachula, Horford, Smoove, Marvin, Bibby, Murray, etc. Joe doesnt have to be THE GUY all the time any more. However, if you dont know how good Joe is, my advice to you would be to go back and watch game 4 of the Hawks-Boston series from last year, particular the fourth quarter. It was as clutch performance as Ive ever seen from ANY NBA player. It was breathtaking, incredible, scintillating, fascinating, spectacular; all the superlatives that you could come up with. You see, Joe was in the same zone that you saw D-Wade in in games 2 and 3 of the Heat series. Joe Johnson was in the exact same zone. Johnson kept making shots; 3-points; drives, all types of shots from all over the court. Joe took over the game because if he didnt the Hawks wouldnt have competed. Joe Johnson showed the world how great he is and so many people have forgotten including the author of this riduculous article and I am just amazed how people have forgotten from one year to the next. In fact, I think that was the best performance that I have ever seen from any NBA player. That was Joe Johnson at his best. And you will see him like that again tonight. For those of you who dont know, Joe Johnson is a first ballot hall of fame calibre player. Dont ever forget it.
All I'm Saying Is...
April 29th, 2009
3:58 pm
IN THE PLAYOFFS, D Wade whines all the time about calls. I think he needs to man-up as well. Kobe whines too and he is wrong to do it from my point of view too. IN THE PLAYOFFS, leave that duty to the coaches as that is what they are there for. Concentrate on playing and making your friggin free throws.
NBA Refs are bad? No kidding. Is this your first year watching the sport, Fair is Fair? They have been bad for years way before Mark Cuban discovered the sport. Does anyone remember when a ref gave Stan Kasten a technical foul for shaking his head about a foul called? Stan was not on the floor ladies and gentlemen—he was standing next to one of the grandstands off to the side away from the basket (but obviously in clear line of site for the ref who I think was Jack Madden(?) something like that). Anyone recall Tim Duncan getting a technical for sitting on the bench chuckling at a call two years ago?
The reason why the refs didn’t call the flagrant on Rondo in that game is because NBA refs (like refs in most every sport) do not want to make a call that might determine the outcome and calling a flagrant in that situation would have given Chicago two free throws and the ball so not only might they have tied the game but they would have been in a position to win it. As it was, Miller had the chance to tie the game and after he missed his first shot, Chicago could have gotten a long rebound (Miller was too stupid to shoot the ball properly so it hit the rim) and won the game.
All I'm Saying Is...
April 29th, 2009
4:07 pm
Truth-serum: Thanks for the props! Now everyone knows what you and I already knew which is you need a true center to win it all in the NBA. The Hawks still need one as a starter to go with ZaZa as Al is playing out of position. We don’t need an all-star just someone who can defend and rebound and can score a few points like in Eric Dampier in Dallas.
By the way, Dwight Howard has been suspended for the next game for throwing his elbow in a manner similar to throwing a punch. Guess the rules are not always applied differently to the star players, huh?
Terrell
April 29th, 2009
4:14 pm
WR, I wasn’t caliing you blunt, and I am sorry if you thought that. I was only trying to be funny because JJ doesn’t speak at all that was it. I got what you were saying.
Fair is Fair
April 29th, 2009
4:41 pm
YES “all i’m saying”….the rules are applied differently…Most other players would have been immediately ejected (which would have actually been better for the Magic). But since it was so obvious and all over TV, they had to suspend him.
Truth-serum
April 29th, 2009
6:01 pm
All I’m Saying Is…
April 29th, 2009
4:07 pm
I was thinking the same thing about Dampier. Hed be a great fit. I also thought we might have got Marcus Camby cheap because he was available earlier.
I dont think people understand that you MUST have a center. You deny in the low post and intimidate there by forcing the other team to rely on the outside shot, which as you know the percentages drop at that point. If they come in the paint their shots are altered or block and they end up on the seat of their pants.
On the offesive end the center must command the attention of at least one body which hurts opponents on rotations. You can also screen for cutters, which then opens up the outside game for shooters…
I agree whole hearted with your rational, we need another center to start,(one that finishes regularly in the low post)and thereby give us the option in the half court.
As the playoffs progress sooner or later it turns to a half court game and you know the rest of the story.
Good post and good insite.
JohnGTFan
April 29th, 2009
7:00 pm
AtlSouthside…you’re an idiot.
We all know that Woody overwooked Joe during the regular season. At the same time, Joe has had plenty of time to relax and get his legs under him. I like that he’s finding the open guys when he’s doubled. I don’t so much mind the lack of scoring. What a “superstar” should not be doing is all the turnovers and missing so many free throws. I wish someone else would shoot the technicals (not Horford, ZaZa or Josh).
JohnGTFan
April 29th, 2009
7:00 pm
**overworked**
Snowman
April 30th, 2009
7:46 am
Great win for the Hawks in game 4 and 5 (where have I been?…smile)!!!…GREAT JOB Zsa Zsa!!!…Shout out to Truth-Serum for keeping it real currently and for all season long and classy enough to give Z his props…I hope Jeff does that to Woody at the end of this series too!!! (Hey Bottomline?…”Boy”?, what’s up with that?…careful with that Bottomline…”Boy” was a character on Tarzan!)…Hope Al is not done for the Playoffs…Jeff I can not wait until your APOLOGY at the end of the series about how well coach Woodson has done this season…I don’t want to get ahead of myself because we have one HUGE game to go and Dwayne has the heart of a champion however IF YOU DON’T THINK WOODY AND THAT STAFF CAN’T COACH and deserves all of our local support (even though I am in Washington D.C….smile) then you are wrong, so, so wrong which is what I have been saying for the last couple of months….GO HAWKS, GO HAWKS, GO HAWKS!!!…
Oh, one last thing Kenny Smith and Chuck have been very, very unfair when it comes to their analysis of the Hawks…what’s up with that?…I know Dwayne is in Chuck’s Fav 5 and I guess Kenny is jealous that the Hawks did not make him the GM (along w/NOBODY ELSE!!!)…Those two need to be “checked” and like Mr. Schultz stop Hatin!!!
Eastside
April 30th, 2009
8:52 am
AtlSouthside, that Chipper comparison crap is weak, weak, weak. Mickey Mantle. Eddie Murray. Chipper Jones. Those 3 have the greatest numbers for any switch-hitters. Ever. But he’s been called out by media and fans in this town for everything from his personal life to his injury problems. Tom Glavine was ripped for taking the Mets’ money and doing his job as the players’ rep during the strike. John Smoltz has been mocked for being a mental midget. Most players get their deserved props and most players get hits (deserved and otherwise). Despite the unfortunate opinions voiced by folks living in the past, most fans now see the colors on the jerseys, not on the skin. C’mon dude, jump into the 21st century with us.
Truth-serum
April 30th, 2009
9:42 am
Snowman
April 30th, 2009
7:46 am
You Da man!
Hey, the Z is representing and I appreciate his role. Its his turnovers and inability to finish in the low post that hurts. If continues to play enforcer and cut the turnovers and finishes when called on…then hes a bad mother shut your mouth! Talking bout Z.
Schultz, the strength of a team is when you dont have to depend on one man to carry the scoring load. Its more difficult to defend a balanced team than a one man show….ask Chris Paul and the Paulites.
JJ must drive whether he makes the basket or not. He will put people in foul trouble and open up the outside game for shooters and slashers. Basketball is not just scoring. Its a chess game…. check and Check mate.
Snowman check out this post:
All I’m Saying Is…
April 29th, 2009
10:55 am
Good job Hawks taking the game to the higher levels!! Yeah Barkely is a dunkard without a ring and Smith is really hating too. He wasnt that good when he played here…but the birds are winning so hate on!!! It must be difficult for Barkely to see his boy Wade get beat down. OH well.
SHOUT OUT TO THE BIRDS….HANDLE YOUR BUSINESS.
All I'm Saying Is...
April 30th, 2009
10:34 am
I’m really proud of our Hawks! Way to go!
As for Game 6, since Al is out, ZaZa will have to start and we will need Randolph Morris to play major minutes. Marvin is definitely not coming back so Solomon Jones will need to play heavily too (loved his stare down with D Wade after his clean hard foul). JJ, Bibby, and Flip need to stay in the groove. Josh Smith, as usual, is the key for game six: he needs to play a solid ROAD playoff game for once (and forget the between the legs dunk showboating move—will this man ever show some maturity?—until after a series clinching win if it has to be done at all!))
Hollywould: Howard suspended one game and would have been ejected from the game if the refs had seen the elbow make contact and that’s per Stu Jackson, Chief Enforcer for David Stern’s NBA. Rondo’s foul not judged to be flagrant because “…felt Rondo was making a basketball play and going for the ball [he struck his head because Rondo is much shorter in height and length of his arms and Miller jumped sooner] after a blown defensive assignment by the Celtic team,” Jackson said. And Jackson went on to say “In terms of the criteria that we use to evaluate a flagrant foul penalty one, generally we like to consider whether or not there was a windup, an appropriate level of impact and a follow-through. And with this foul, we didn’t see a windup, nor did he follow through. So for that reason we’re not going to upgrade this foul to a flagrant foul penalty one.” You may not agree with the man but his explanation makes sense. Also, Barkley said that while he thought Rondo’s foul on Miller was flagrant and he also understood why the refs didn’t call it because the refs don’t want to be seen as determining the outcome of the game which is what two shots and the ball likely would have done.
Also from the Hawks game five win as noted by Sekou: “…Pachulia caught Jermaine O’Neal in the face with an elbow while driving to the hoop. O’Neal crumbled to the court, then got up to deliver a shot across Pachulia’s head the next time the Hawks’ reserve ventured into the lane…” And, that my friend, is playoff basketball: no whining, just man up play—if you drive in the lane expect to leave in pain…don’t be a crybaby…just pick yourself up and play hard at the other end.
JuniorBridgeman
April 30th, 2009
11:28 am
If I were the Hawks I would go for the throat in game 6. Forget about game 7. Play out of your collective minds for game 6 and handle your business in game 6. Treat game 6 as if it is game 7 although it is game 6 if that makes any sense. I know the Hawks have two chances to close out the Heat but be careful because if the Heat win game 6; it is the Hawks who may have the door closed on them and it might be the Hawks that get closed out. Dont take any chances. Finish off the Heat on Friday and you wont regret it.
JSS
April 30th, 2009
1:33 pm
“Junior Bridgeman!” Bring back the tri-color Marquette wanna-be uni’s and it is game on… Schultz still trying to plant the seeds of decite like a dumb man’s Iago… Go forth thy moron hack and spill thy self on a blade or drinketh a foul brew…
I’m glad that players don’t read hacks like the “Comb-over.” They would all be camped out like Jeff Gillooly waiting for this freak to stop stuffing his face at Writer’s buffet…
Hey Jeff, why no shots at Woody?
JSS
April 30th, 2009
4:54 pm
I kid you not:
From D. Orlando Ledbetter, April 30th, 2009 3:24 pm, “Was working the Schultz plan today. Get the blog up in a hour, then spend two hours correcting.”
ROTFLMAO
You can’t make this mess up… What a Buffoon… Truth-serum I thought you’d like this little bit of joy…
Truth-serum
April 30th, 2009
11:50 pm
JSS
April 30th, 2009
4:54 pm
Schultz sure is quiet in his assualt on Woody…Where is the bubba crew?….oh they are now the sportcasters on TNT… Same hate different crew…
Hating is such a waste of existing.
You are rolling JSS
Hey Snowman, great posts.
Snowman
May 1st, 2009
12:38 am
Truth-Serum, JSS, ALL I’m Sayin Is, we are loving these Hawks and coach Woody (smile). They will have to find someone else to beat on when the Hawks advance to the Cleveland series (I hope I did not just jinx them…smile).
Remember about 4-6 weeks ago how Schultz was supporting Josh’s position when coach had a run-in with Josh in the locker room and then sat him down for the 2nd half of the game.? I still don’t know how he (JS) took the 23 year old side vs. 51 year old adult and authority figure of the team, coach Woodson. I think with that “through the leg dunk attempt” (and I don’t know how many unwarranted 3 attempts during the series) how tough it must be to coach Josh Smith. C’mon, I think that play epitomizes what the coaching staff has to deal with on a daily basis. Yet, Schultz wants to criticize Woodson…I just don’t get it? I like Josh and his athleticism (how good would he be if he had Bibby’s basketball IQ coupled with all that physical ability?) and love the Hawks team for all the points we have made over the last few months but I just don’t get why the LOCAL COLUMNIST (that’s right you Jeff!!!) does not like coach Woodson and can’t acknowledge the problems this organization has. From the owners and what they have had to deal with, to the GM, and despite it all (injuries included) Woody has held this thing together and as a T-E-A-M they got better…A frickin T-E-A-M!!!…I applaud you coach, I really do!!!…so again, no matter what Kenny Smith and Barkley and Schultz say, with one more win they will will have to FINALLY Acknowledge how great a job he coaching staff has done…Keep up the good work you three, cause I read you all’s postings regularly and it’s good stuff (smile)!!!
What's the Hawks' rush to re-sign Joe? | Jeff Schultz
August 5th, 2009
10:31 am
[...] Johnson also has been less than impressive in the playoffs the last two seasons, and it’s worth asking — as we’ve asked before — [...]