Maybe you believe, but Griffey shows nobody else does
Forget for a moment that Ken Griffey, Jr. played 11 seasons with the Seattle Mariners and will go into the Hall of Fame as a Seattle Mariner and, oh, gosh, golly gee, wouldn’t it be so nice to finish his career as a Seattle Mariner.
Think of this: He is 39 years old. His legacy in baseball is secure. He has played the game with the joy of a little leaguer and never once has been accused of frequenting the same Dominican Republic CVS as Alex Rodriguez.
But what is the one thing missing in Griffey’s career? A World Series. What is the No. 1 goal of any great player who is at the end of his career and is without a championship? Winning that championship.
The story is not that Griffey didn’t sign with the Braves. The story is that he signed with another team that, sentimentality aside, actually lost 11 more games than the Braves. He didn’t base his decision on a phone call from Willie Mays or a newspaper story that may or may not have angered him. He based it on the fact that there was no overwhelming reason to come here.
This is spring. It’s the time of optimism. But if Griffey really believed that the Braves were as close to competing for a championship as maybe they do – or maybe you do – he would have signed with them.
That is his how most great athletes think, particularly ring-less ones. They are driven by statistics early and championships late.
You want this to be the 1990s again. It’s not. Few outside of Atlanta expect success. If the Braves win a division and reach the playoffs and do damage, it will register with most as a surprise. It’s just the reality of how the organization is perceived.
They are not the team of 14 consecutive postseasons. They are the team of three consecutive long winters.
They were full of optimism last spring (remember?). Then they imploded. They lost 90 games. Memories like that linger.
Otherwise, don’t you think Jake Peavy might have been a little more enthused about coming here (even if San Diego general manager Kevin Towers never seemed serious about trading him)?
Don’t you think A.J. Burnett would have signed here?
Don’t you think Rafael Furcal would have come back?
Why do you think the Braves had to give Derek Lowe four years and $60 million when the only other known offer was for three years and $36 million?
I know. Blame Frank Wren. It’s easy, right? We all want scapegoats, and the relatively new general manager is an easy one.
But don’t go there – at least not yet. Other than low-balling John Smoltz – the one player in the organization who never should have been low-balled – most of this offseason has not been Wren’s fault. Yes, he has been used and certainly hasn’t achieved all of his objectives this offseason.
But to compare Wren to John Schuerholz isn’t fair, unless you’re going back to pre-1991. The Braves had no resume then, either. They were viewed as losers. Schuerholz inherited a great young pitching staff. He didn’t blow away others GMs in that first year. Terry Pendleton and Sid Bream weren’t exactly the gold standard of free agents. (In his last three seasons in St. Louis, Pendleton hit .254, .264 and .230. Somehow, he morphed into a .319 hitter and an MVP in 1991). A week before the season, Schuerholz acquired Otis Nixon from Montreal – for Jimmy Kremers and a player to be named later.
It wasn’t until ensuing seasons – when the Braves were perceived as winners – that free agents flocked to Atlanta.
Maybe the Braves win this season. Maybe the Mariners lose 90 games and the Braves win 90. But that’s not the way Griffey is thinking right now. And who’s to say he’s wrong?
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85 comments Add your comment
Tostido Bandit
February 19th, 2009
12:53 pm
Hey, I hope Dave “Head Cheerleader” O’Brien and the mindless lemmings on his blog don’t read a column that is based on facts and common sense.
I swear, the average IQ on that blog has to be in double digits.
Bluestreak
February 19th, 2009
1:01 pm
No, dude. Its because he used the Braves to get $4 million more out of Seattle, because it was a buyers market on Griffey (1 buyer). So he made some calls, got the Braves involved because they made the most sense to everyone due to the closeness to his home and family…and his love of Bobby Cox.
Griffey got $4 mil more from the Mariners and a ‘life after baseball’ contract to work with them after he hangs them up at the end of the year. He’ll be the Hank Aaron of the Mariners in that regard.
It has nothing to do with winning for Griffey. The Mariners could have finished 0-162 last year and been up for the same this year and Griffey would have signed with them.
It has everything to do with he was signing with the Mariners to go out with ‘his’ team, pretty much regardless of who else came calling. He just needed the Braves to squeeze some more money out of them.
Bluestreak
February 19th, 2009
1:04 pm
TB, that would be one more digit than the IQ displayed here, excluding myself of course. See, I’m one of those ‘DOB lemmings’…a.k.a: informed baseball fan.
brewdawg
February 19th, 2009
1:10 pm
While I’m 110 percent with you on the Smoltz thing… I’m confused. As little as people expect out of the Braves, those same folks expect less out of the Mariners. “Winning a championship” couldn’t have had less to do with it. I really can’t wrap my head around your logic here. Is it that the Braves are lousy, and being spurned by a 39 year old past his prime player who obviously wants to end his career with the team he started with proves it?
Jeff Schultz
February 19th, 2009
1:17 pm
Brewdawg: Nothing to be confused about. I believe the chance to win a Series would’ve overridden every other factor. Griffey didn’t perceive the Braves were a Series team so he, effectively, chose one mediocre team over another (in his mind) for sentimental reasons. That’s all.
Greg Weis
February 19th, 2009
1:18 pm
You are right on target. All things (objectively) considered, Griffey did the right thing in avoiding the Braves. The Braves make themselves a little stronger by signing Lowe, and everyone gets excited and starts talking play-offs. News Flash: ALL the teams in our division have made themselves better. Our outfield will be ok (not great, but better than last year), largely because Francoeur will be better. If they want to spend a couple mil, they should get more pitching.
orilly
February 19th, 2009
1:20 pm
WAH WAH WAH
Jan
February 19th, 2009
1:49 pm
Jeff—-You are right about this one. The Braves are no longer perceived the way they were during the championship run. To attract quality free agents now, they have to out-bid the other middling teams, and they have not shown a penchant for doing that. Otherwise, they would have gotten into the bidding for Sabathia and Burnett.
Mac
February 19th, 2009
2:09 pm
I hope this year proves to be something close to that ‘91 season. Except maybe this time the young talent that comes through will be a couple of pitchers and a couple of outfielders, with Lowe, Kawamaki and Vasquez filling the roles of Pendleton, Bream and Belliard.
Mac
February 19th, 2009
2:10 pm
We could really use some bikini shots today, Jeff. I’m voting for Julie Henderson.
doc
February 19th, 2009
2:19 pm
no i think it is because he doesnt think he can compete anymore and to come here means he has to at least pretend to do just that.
Herschel Talker
February 19th, 2009
2:20 pm
Well said, Jeff. DOB is a blind homer. Completely useless. Happy Purim!
James
February 19th, 2009
2:25 pm
Enjoyed the column.
T Bandit–following up on what you said, I keep wondering if any of the participants on O’Brien’s blog have jobs as every time I go over there, they’re *always* online!
Ted Gunn
February 19th, 2009
2:25 pm
You need to lose those glasses. They make you look like the guy on The Sarah Silverman Program-Brian Posehn. I know people have to have told you this before.
I’m not trying to sound like a jerk. Just trying to help you out bro. At the very least, get a new photo up there sans the goggles.
Jeff Schultz
February 19th, 2009
2:26 pm
Jan: You’re right about the lack of bidding (at least until Lowe). It’s also a statement on the fixed budget and these economic times. Then again, there’s really only two teams (Yankees and Red Sox, as usual) that are going bonkers in payroll. Almost everybody is holding the line now. … Mac: I’m so glad in these troubled times that we can get back to what’s really important — bikini shots. …. Doc: I guess there’s that possibility, too. But I’d hate to think Griffey, even at this stage of his career, lacks so much confidence in himself that he signed with Seattle because he figured he wouldn’t have to compete as much there.
Jeff Schultz
February 19th, 2009
2:28 pm
Ted: I’m hurt — deeply. Most people like my glasses (which I’ve actually had for a year now, but it’s new to column sig.). I haven’t seen the Sarah Silverman show but I’ll take your word for it.
Joey
February 19th, 2009
2:32 pm
Greg, exactly what kind of pitching can we get for a “couple mil”?
Ted Striker
February 19th, 2009
2:41 pm
JS — ‘Right’ on Griffey. ‘Right’ on the Braves chances of winning 90. (If they do, I’ll shoot the moon and bet on Stafford leading the Lions to victory in SuperBowl XLIV). Smoltz lowballed? ‘Wrong.’ The Braves need horses not pitchers 17 fastballs away from being medically certified as a source of glue.
Oddibe McDowell
February 19th, 2009
2:59 pm
Blustreak, reading DOB’s column yesterday didn’t exactly make you an informed baseball fan, now did it? I think it actually would be the opposite of informed. What’s the word? Oh yeah: MIS-informed. Just like on Jake Peavy, just like on Lowe (he constantly said the Braves have no interest), just like Furcal, and the list goes on for his “misses”. At least he knows about crappy bands he thinks no one has heard of but him (sadly, if you have read a Blender magazine in the last 5 years, you would already know about these bands ahead of time. Kind of like if you read a reputable news source for baseball news you’ll know some actual facts). I think you have a cliff to go jump off of…
SavannahBrave
February 19th, 2009
3:06 pm
Thanks for your thoughts Jeff. I think Griffey just wants to be remembered as a Mariner and to recoonect with their organization. He’s a great ball player and I was looking forward to seeing in Atlanta, but I’ll get over it. Others may not be expecting much from the Braves, but that is why they play the game. Another blogger mentioned the magic of 1991. We always have that season of improbable turnaround to remember and long for again.
I also wanted to thank you for not including the lyrics to a silly song at the end of your column. We read your column for your insight into a team we love, not what you’ve been listening to on the shuffle. I appreciate the omission.
Tech Fan
February 19th, 2009
3:07 pm
Last 3 years:
Griffey (age 39): 394 games, 75 hr, 235 rbi & .259
G.Anderson (age 36): 396 games, 48 hr, 249 rbi & .290
For the same money, you can get a younger (albeit lesser name) left fielder with a much higher average and more rbi’s using fewer homers to do it. Remember, Griffey played in the homer prone Great American ballpark and Anderson in the cavernous Anaheim stadium. Oh yea, Anderson has been on a World Championship team too!
Substance over name value Frank!!!!
Knuckle Sandwich
February 19th, 2009
3:12 pm
I always figured it was T. Moore who was the one that resorted to negativity and nay saying to get cheap reads on his blog. If you think that the Mariners are even close to the level of this year’s Braves, you are insane.
Jeff Schultz
February 19th, 2009
3:24 pm
Ted Striker: Said it before. I’ll say it for the last time: If Smoltz’s arm falls off Opening Day, he still deserved the $5 million as gold watch. I call him the exception to the rule. Just my opinion. ….. Savannah: I couldn’t think of a song about the Mariners. There was that Mrs. Robinson song that mentioned Joe Dimaggio. But he’s not in uniform this spring. …. Tech Fan: I agree — you can do worse than Garrett Anderson, and doing nothing would be worse. I’m still surprised the Braves didn’t to after Abreu or Dunn, but I guess we have to assume economics is dictating a lot of this.
Popeye
February 19th, 2009
3:26 pm
Schultz knows what about baseball?
kclubmember
February 19th, 2009
3:30 pm
The Atlanta Braves’organization is desperate for any box office draw because the braintrust knows the local fans won’t support this club.Pitcher John Smoltz is now in Beantown,so the fanbase won’t have a reason to come to Turner Field.
Friday The 13th Remake Was Okay
February 19th, 2009
3:33 pm
lol Jimmy Kremers I forgot about this guy…Sounds like a donut.
doc
February 19th, 2009
3:42 pm
jeff it is just there isnt as much at stake going there rather than here. he comes here to play there to be a figurehead. the latter sets him up for life. so he is ready to retire than to extend his legacy which is about non-existent for the post season. there was pressure to come out there and be the grand ole guy for the organization as well it seems. again, it was about getting ready for the next stage of his life not playing to help the braves get into the playoffs.
yup, you are right there is an outside chance if even if he comes the braves get there and it would take work on his part. look at the expectation level reasonable or unreasonable that the potential of his signing got here and it was about winning. he wont get that going to seattle. kind of like looking forward to seeing an old friend but knowing you arent going to go out and do the crazy stuff anymore. going to seattle takes the winning and competing as a team out of the equation. reasonable for him to do it. just dont think it is as much of a knock on this organization which is your point. oddly the braves were the only team that wanted him to put on the uniform and play. even if you dont want to think in those terms jeff, he is done.
rhynster
February 19th, 2009
3:51 pm
Schultz nailed this one pretty good.
Hadn’t even thought about that angle.
Of course, I also don’t think we’ll crack .500 this year.
Contrary to popular belief around here, the rotation is not very good.
DOB's journalism professor
February 19th, 2009
4:10 pm
Jeff – Am I understanding your logical reasoning: Griffey, because he is a veteran (and all veterans care more about rings than stats) made up his mind based on nostalgia? Moreover, are you also saying the Braves, who are not perceived by “outsiders” as potential winners, never had anything substantive to offer Griffey, the outsider? Even if I accept your premise, why in the heck did he initiate contact in the first place? The strong assumption here is that no one outside the Atlanta bubble thinks we have a chance of going to the post-season. Fine, but this doesn’t address why, like Chipper said: “… he came to us. I question why he came to us.” Why did he come to us? With your logic, at best, Griffey is an opportunist, and at worst he is flighty. Your argument would be stronger if you could prove that no other team with a better chance of going to the post-season than us would have offered him a contract. Also, not everyone sees our team as inept; Ken Rosenthal (outside the bubble) likes us. Lastly, it’s somewhat misleading to say “He didn’t base his decision on a phone call from Willie Mays or a newspaper story that may or may not have angered him.” I mean – how do you really know? Maybe Griffey talked with Rosenthal, liked his take on the Braves – and coupled it with his desire to play for Bobby! Maybe! I know that’s speculation (Griffey may not personally know K. Rosenthal) but it is no different than what the AJC has been doing this whole off-season. journalism
Jeff Schultz
February 19th, 2009
4:14 pm
Popeye: You’re right. How could I possibly try to match wits with somebody that goes by “Popeye.” … Friday The 13th: You got me curious. Here’s a link to Kremers’ bio on baseball-reference.com: http://www.baseball-reference.com/k/kremeji01.shtml … It’s like he fell off the face of the earth after that trade. …. Doc: I agree with almost everything you said. I still think that if the Braves were viewed as a championship-caliber team, he comes here. No question …… Rhynster: Thanks for the comments. Have you met “Popeye”?
Brendan
February 19th, 2009
4:18 pm
Ken Griffey signed where he wanted to be. And that’s it. Do I honestly think the Seattle Mariners will win a World Series? Ehhh, no. But neither will the Braves. So, like Jeff Schultz said, he chose between two “schedule fodder” teams and Atlanta lost out. It would have been nice to have Griffey. Bygones.
It won’t be the last player to use Atlanta to drive up the cost of a contract to go play someplace else. Never forget, in the end, unrestricted free agents where they WANT to play. And in the case of Atlanta, just throwing money at a player won’t land him, unless the player’s ego DEMANDS that he be the highest paid player at his position, etc.
Grahzny Bratchny
February 19th, 2009
4:23 pm
Griffey has never won it all or been in the World Series and he had a better shot in Atlanta. Unless the Mariners win their division they don’t make the playoffs in the AL. A ring must not be important, but why would a legacy that he could not possibly tarnish compel him to return to Seattle? There is no pressure in Atlanta or Seattle and his family is closer in Atlanta.
It is kind of like he gave up on the dream. Did May’s words carry more weight than Aaron’s? As far as being a quality person, Griffey is much closer to Aaron. I wish he was coming here…
Ted Striker
February 19th, 2009
4:25 pm
JS – That’s a nice watch. Hey, my birthday’s coming up. (Just a hint)
Jeff Schultz
February 19th, 2009
4:51 pm
Prof: First of all, if your “handle” is meant to be a slap at Dave, you’re way off base. I’ll defend him as a journalist, a baseball writer and a friend. I’ll let him speak for himself, which he did in his blog, but you have no idea what went into the that story. The headline (”Griffey will be a Brave”) also went farther than the story (friend says …). But it really does pay to get into that debate. Like I said, I’ll let Dave speak for himself. … As far as the nostalgia things goes, yes, Griffey basically did sign with Seattle for that reason. That’s what he has said. As to why he came to the Braves first, I dunno. Maybe he was trying to leverage for more money (and maybe he got it). Maybe he was trying to learn more about the team to see if he could be convinced that they were going to be contenders. My point is that if he came away convinced they were legit contenders, I don’t think he would’ve signed with Seattle because title-less veteran athletes don’t do that at the end of their career. …. Ted: Dream on.
Andy
February 19th, 2009
5:05 pm
I have a couple of problems with this column. First of all, for all the enthusiasm I have heard concerning this Braves team, it has been mainly about making the playoffs, not winning a world series. It would come as quite a shock for this group to win the title, but it shouldn’t be too surprising to see them make the playoffs or even win the division. But I disagree with your premise that Griffey’s decision tells us much about the Braves. It really tells us more about Griffey. See although the Braves aren’t viewed as Title contenders, they should be viewed as playoff contenders. The Mariners are 100-loss contenders. The fact that you choose a 100-loss team over a potential playoff team tells me that you basically have no competitive drive. Looking at Griffey’s playoff experience (or lack of it) just backs up my case.
DirtyDawg
February 19th, 2009
5:06 pm
I’ve asked this elsewhere but I’m still looking for a response…what about Kelly Johnson in left – platooning or otherwise? I mean we won’t be losing much, or more like anything, if he’s not at second (Intante and/or Prado can both do it better), and he’s got as sweet a swing from the left side as any you’ll ever see. I think he’s good for a couple of dozen HRs a season which ought to do the job.
Bluestreak
February 19th, 2009
5:17 pm
Oddibe…no cliff for me to jump off of, dude. And I’m not saying that DOB is the only source for info, but I guess if you are right about his “mis”-information, then the following baseball writers would be “mis”-informed too:
Ken Rosenthal, Mark Bowman, Geoff Baker (Seattle writer), SI.com (they had him going to Atlanta, too). I think ESPN even reported that too.
I guess most EVERYONE was misinformed on this one. Can you point to one that didn’t say he was coming here?
Braveheart
February 19th, 2009
5:30 pm
——– If you think that the Mariners are even close to the level of this year’s Braves, you are insane ——–
I don’t believe that’s what he was saying. He’s saying they’re both irrelevant teams. With neither having relevance, he chose the one most relevant to his own life story. Since neither team has a shot to win a ring to add to his legacy, it’s better to return to the team that is his legacy (he and Edgar and Randy did after all save baseball in Seatttle in 1995 – the Mariners would have relocated like the Sonics without him). The Braves would have been nothing more than somewhere close to home that would give him a few more checks.
Jeff Schultz
February 19th, 2009
5:41 pm
DirtyDawg: I’m not really feeling moving Kelly Johnson to left? Does it really make you better because it gets Infante or Prado in the lineup? To me it’s just moving around the deck chairs. … Braveheart: You wrote, “I don’t believe that’s what he was saying. He’s saying they’re both irrelevant teams. With neither having relevance, he chose the one most relevant to his own life story.” I really wish I had written that. Are you after my job?
doc
February 19th, 2009
5:50 pm
jeff if the braves were that much of a shoe in then they wouldnt have even returned griffey’s call. remember the kid contacted them so he must have had some desire even though it didnt last long.
braveheart griffey knows he is the most irrelevant.
reallly enjoy the countdown on tuesdays. look forward to it. nice look for a stately reporter/columnist.
JSS
February 19th, 2009
6:00 pm
Hey Benny the Beaver, Did ever learn how to do that played out “Souljah Boy” dance right yet?
I bet Dave O’Brien feels like “Brownie” did when Bush came to give that pat on the back and said: “You’re doing a great job!”
Simple fact…
The Braves have not been a player in the real baseball free market since 2002.
That point, like the effects of the economic downturn will never sink in to crazies that find you informative and “funny.”
It does not matter, Time-Warner, Liberty Media, etc… The Braves are back in the wilderness, just sit in the cheap seats and take it like Benny the Beaver… Go and buy razor…
Tech Fan
February 19th, 2009
6:00 pm
Since it’s being reported his deal with Seattle can net him up to $4.5 million – I think it’s pretty obvious he did to us what The Tuna did to the Falcons before heading to the Dolphins.
Bottom line: Nostalgia + $2+ million > Playing closer to your kids high school. Period.
JSS
February 19th, 2009
6:07 pm
Oh… Why did they crop your picture to hide that comb-over? Did the rat run away or something?
JSS
February 19th, 2009
6:39 pm
Oh the big-bad blog Gesthapo is out!!! Can’t take a little heat?
Poorbrave
February 19th, 2009
6:41 pm
I agree Jeff 100%. Man I’ll miss Smoltz the most and Wren should have signed him. Nobody wants to win more than Smoltz. Much rather have had Smoltz than Glavine.
Would have love to had Jr, but its no big deal. We need a power hitter in LF and not a has been or Diaz. Where are you going to get a free agent worth a damn for 2 million and that joke in RF just got 3.3 million for nothing. Please don’t give up 2 are 3 for the junk the Yankees are offering. Nady would be great if you could get Nady to sign a new contract for three or 4 years.
Good job Jeff.
What are you talking about Jeff Schultz?
February 19th, 2009
6:49 pm
“It wasn’t until ensuing seasons – when the Braves were perceived as winners – that free agents flocked to Atlanta.”
Jeff Schultz, the Braves have never been big players in the free-agent market – only 2 big names I can think of that were signed by the Braves were are Greg Maddux and Brian Jordan. So, the statement I quoted above from you is really a sad statement on your lack of education about the Braves organization.
BravesFan79
February 19th, 2009
7:21 pm
Wow this article is about as dumb as hearing T Moore defend the BCS
.
Griffey proved to everyone exactly what he is. NOT A WINNER! While i give him credit for trying to help turn around bad teams, and being loyal in doing so…. most “winners” would of wanted to be traded to a contender. Griffey never demanded this. And he once again proves me right by choosing the Mariners (a team with maybe a 5% chance of getting into the playoffs) over the Braves (a team with at least a 40% chance of making the playoffs).
rhynster
February 19th, 2009
8:15 pm
If Griffey plays in 100 games this year, I’ll buy everyone here a box of Junior Mints.
JSS
February 19th, 2009
8:22 pm
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3918723
It called R-E-P-O-R-T-I-N-G…
Benny the Beaver: Here’s something novel, try it sometime…
David Duncan
February 19th, 2009
8:40 pm
I agree with you Jeff. The Braves have been a regressing organization since 2005. I can’t see how the moves that they have made in the off season are going to make the Braves competitive with the Phillies and Mets. The Braves may get lucky and finish 3rd in the NL East. That is about all we Braves fans can expect in 2009.
Ken Stallings
February 19th, 2009
9:32 pm
Jeff I hate to make this point, but on the very day Otis Nixon was brought to Atlanta in that trade, players on both teams were calling it a steal. But perhaps most objectionable is that again it seems you have stooped to an alarmist conclusion. I’m sure many factors played into Ken Griffey’s decision. And for a player like him, without question sentimentality played a large share.
Griffey fondly remembers his relationship with the fans in Seattle. He knows how they will welcome him back. With Atlanta, it will be merely the excitement of his reputation as a great hitter and good fielder. And yet, those values will be equally appreciated in Seattle.
Your column’s conclusion would have been strengthened with a quote from Griffey. But he’s not going to substantiate such a conclusion. If he was motivated mostly by the ring, he would have taken a discount to add his name to the Yankees’ roster, and you can bet they would have signed him.
Atlanta has a well above averate pitching staff now. That’s not a myopic view of Atlanta fans. It’s pretty clear the players around the league feel the same way. Signing Glavine as the fifth starter cemented the rotation’s strength. The only area of concern is the outfield, but it’s not beyond practical hope that Franceur will achieve something closer to his average production vice last year’s disaster.
Optimism for this season isn’t myopic. It’s a realistic outlook.
BraveFan73
February 19th, 2009
10:13 pm
Atlanta is in a division with the defending World Series Champions, the Philadelphia Phillies, who may be better. Atlanta is in the division with the team with one of the highest payrolls in all of baseball and a record setting closer in the NY Muts, I mean Mets. The Braves are in a division with a franchise known for competing winning with nothing in the Florida Marlins.
What would Ken Griffey Jr. really bring to our franchise anyway. It would have been insane for him to sign here with us in Atlanta. In Seattle, he can play the outfield and simply serve as a DH on other days. To have his bat, he would have had to play everyday in the NL. Most great hitters (Griffey is certainly one of the greatest of all time) finish their careers in the AL or they end up like Willie Mays. Seattle makes much more sense for Griffey.
The bottom line is Atlanta has a weak fanbase! You or I can walk into beautiful Turner Field on any day, except Opening Day, and get a prime seat because no one goes to the games, even when our Braves were winning. I have been to playoff games and the stadium is full of empty seats. I do not know of a franchise in sports that has the revenue to go out and spend big money on big players without a very supportive fanbase.
We don’t have that here in Atlanta. If you take the biggest spenders in baseball, they are usually the teams with the strongest fanbases. The fact that we don’t have the Jake Peavys and AJ Burnetts or even the Ken Griffey Jrs has more to do with the fact that Brave fans do not support the Braves. It is as simple as that. If Brave fans want to point a finger, look in the mirror.
Averaging 30,000 to 35,000 fans per game in a beautiful stadium that hold around 55,000 with a team with the success that the Braves have had over the past 20 years is a borderline joke! Far worse teams like the Baltimore Orioles, Chicago Cubs, St. Louis Cardinals, San Francisco Giants, etc. get much better consistent fan support. Metro Atlanta has over 5 million people. Still, we do not support our teams. Then, we sit around and complain about who we didn’t get. It’s crazy.
Jeff Schultz
February 19th, 2009
10:17 pm
OK guys. I’m back for a little while. Had other matters to attend to … JSS: Gestapo? What are you talking about. And I don’t do a comb-over. … Poor Brave: Thanks for the comments. Nagy would be HUGE, compared to what the Braves have out there now. But that’s going to crush the budget. We’ll see how serious ownership is. …. What Are You Talking (blah blah): It’s not sure pure free agents. It’s spending the money to acquire players whose deals were going to expire (Tim Hudson being a recent example) knowing that you had the money to re-sign them and that they wanted to be here. It’s paying players to stay here — and they stayed not just because of the $$ but because of the winning. Sir, from 1994 on, the time I’m referencing, that Braves had the No. 3, 3, 4, 5, 3, 3, 4, 6, 7, 3 payroll in baseball (1994-2003) before it started going down. Yes, you have to want to pay players but they also have to want to be here …. BravesFan79: Hold onto your dreams big guy. And for what it’s worth, I hate the BCS …. Rhynster: I hope you’re not dissing Junior Mints. …. JSS: Crasnick’s a good reporter, I’ve known him for a while. But I don’t believe Griffey made his decision based on something Mays said over something Aaron said. Further, I would take everything his agent said with a grain of salt because it’s no secret he was pushing Griffey all along to sign with Seattle, for whatever reason. There’s always going to be a certain amount of post-signing spin in these situations. …. David Duncan: Thanks ….. Ken Stallings: I have no problem with being optimistic about this season. But I have no idea whether the Yankees were interested in Griffey or not. They certainly weren’t a player. As for this: “Your column’s conclusion would have been strengthened with a quote from Griffey. But he’s not going to substantiate such a conclusion.” — Well of course he’s not going to say that. To me his actions speak volumes.
ShamusThacker
February 19th, 2009
11:44 pm
I’d rather give that $5,000,000 “gold watch” to some homeless gal with kids…
Just my opinion…….
74Dawg
February 20th, 2009
12:33 am
tostido,it is spelled tostito you moron. and the braves have as good a chance to win the east as anyone. so put that in your pipe and suck it. As for Griffey,on;y an idiot thinks they are winning anything. So if he was trying to go out big, he goes to atl maybe he knew the pressure would be less in seattle-they ain’ty competing for nothing except the best coffee for 5 dollars.
74Dawg
February 20th, 2009
12:40 am
sure his actions speak volumes-he got more money out of seattle,where he intended to go all along.that is what scumbag agents do.He never seriously considerse Atl. This tells me he is a goodbeye tour,not a real player.
74Dawg
February 20th, 2009
12:42 am
by the way, wtf are Moe and Jack? Pep Boys may sue.
matt r
February 20th, 2009
12:59 am
Jeff, thanks for the spring pick-me-up. When does football season start?
Shut up DOB
February 20th, 2009
1:47 am
Schulz is Brian Posehn (best known from the Sarah Silverman show)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/75/Brian_Posehn-ComiCon_2005.jpg
ScottBravesfan
February 20th, 2009
3:27 am
Jeff,
You do realize that Baseball prospectus has picked the Braves to win the wild card in the national league. Right?
rhynster
February 20th, 2009
7:35 am
So why is it that Willie Mays speaks and everyone thinks it’s the voice of Moses? Does Hank not talk to players on behalf of the Braves?
Or is Hank’s voice not as resonant because he didn’t play in New York?
And if Griffey drives in more than 65 runs this year, I’ll buy everyone here a Whopper Jr.
LivininAL
February 20th, 2009
7:36 am
I agree that Smoltz deserved better, but did his agent(s) attempt to negotiate with Wren as Glavine’s did? I like the team that Wren has developed, as compared to last year, but wish Smoltz was in the mix. I do think the Braves are underrated based last years record. I think the loss of the pitching staff to injuries was a one of a kind year, one run losses one of a kind, and just bunch of freak stuff. One part time player, Griffey at 39, is not a biggie either way. I’m ready to see the young ones play with some enthusiam and hustle. Let’s improve last year’s record, play 500 ball till the All Star break and see what happens.
richbrave
February 20th, 2009
9:15 am
Liked your takes SCHULTZ.
Mindless lemming
JSS
February 20th, 2009
9:26 am
That poor impression of a played out dance that you do at those OSU games is warping your Rogine covered mind… No comb-over, saw you on CNN, looks like a Trump special to me… You wouldn’t know SPIN if you picked up a copy back in the 80’s… HACK
Edgar
February 20th, 2009
9:26 am
I don’t think Griffey would have made a big difference. But I do think John Smoltz would have. Trying to take advantage of him wasn’t worth it. They should have coughed up more to keep him. It would be nice to go back to the ’90’s when a great group of starters put together a string of winning seasons along with a world series win. They should have won more. The Braves found out that middle relief is a key to winning a world series. Remember Brad Clontz? He showed how valuable middle relief is during the season. He won a load of games that year when he would come in when they would be a run or two behind, pitch an inning or two without giving up more than 1 or two runs and the hitters would get us back in the game. How many games did Clontz pitch in ‘95 when they finally won the Series? Over 70. In fact he was over used because after that season he was gone. Mark Wohlers morphed into the league’s best closer that year and the next but if you remember the home run that beat him came after pitching in the 8th. He never was the same after that night. I hate to say it but I have completely lost interest in baseball. The steroid use has made me into a non-fan. At some point I suppose I’ll get interested again when they clean out the garbage that took my favorite sport away from me. Till then I just don’t care about baseball. For years I could sit and watch a full day of baseball on TV. Catch a 1 pm start on the east coast, a 4 pm in the west, a 7 or 8 game back in the east and a 10 back in the west. I loved it. Going downtown to a game once or twice a week was for many years my greatest hobby. Even before the run in the ’90’s it was a blast to make a game. I hope over the next four or five years the game flushes itself of the pukes that cheated so I can, again, enjoy this game. How well do I think the Braves will do this year? I don’t know. But I do know this, Bobby Cox will get the most out of his players and if they can stay healthy and get hot at the end who knows.
bo stephens
February 20th, 2009
9:28 am
Jeff-Good try but your column has “christmas turkey’ written all over it! Do you really believe that the Braves would be better off with A. J. than Derrick Lowe? That Raffy Furball is worth $10 million a year? Or that Junior signed with Seattle because the Braves don’t have a chance for a championship this year? Come on! Try a better offer-including money now-and a job later. O’brien has a clue-don’t you?-bo
Jeff Schultz
February 20th, 2009
9:42 am
ShamusThacker: I’m with you but I don’t think giving $5 million to a homeless mom was really an option here. But it’s a nice thought — and tax deductable too! … 74Dawg: Manny, Moe and Jack. I loved their old stuff. Then they went mainstream and, well, selah (copyright: Bisher). … MattR: Well, the combine is this week. But, yeah, sorry, didn’t mean to rain on your parade. Hey, seriously, EVERYBODY: I’m not saying the Braves are going to stink this season. At least I don’t think I said that. IF everything comes together with this rotation, they won’t have to score a ton of runs to win games. All I’m saying is this winter agents/players outside of their clubhouse have made it clear that they’re not buying what the Braves are selling. So we’ll see, right? And for the record — no, I don’t think losing Griffey is a huge loss. But I do believe they need somebody else out there. … Bo: Who did the Braves pursue first, A.J. Burnett or Derek Lowe? And do I think Furcal is worth $10 million a year? No. I think teachers are worth $10 million a year. But are you telling me that Furcal — who LOVED playing here and playing for Cox — not coming back didn’t send a message? You’re deluded if not.
PMC
February 20th, 2009
9:45 am
Few inside Atlanta expect greatness. Inside those 14 years they only closed the deal once. They absolutely totally blew it 3 other times.
91,92, 96 respectively.
They are taking their lumps this year. But they didn’t sell the farm and that should bode well for the future eventually.
Basically though, I know Teixera gave all that money to Tech and that’s great…. but the guy was GARBAGE the first two months last year, imagine if he took spring training seriously.
Webhead
February 20th, 2009
9:46 am
I wrote this back in Oct. and everybody was screaming that I was a idiot including DOB. Everybody took a shot at me, right Lew? But i’m not bitter about it. Anybody could have seen where the Braves were heading for the last couple of years. Just had to be paying attention.So thanks Jeff for writing what everyone was afraid to say. The Braves have lost their cache.
PMC
February 20th, 2009
9:50 am
I’ll be a Braves/Boston Red Sox fan for 1 year or as long as Smoltz is there.
He’s in a heck of a lot better position to win than he was here and he dosen’t have time to wait on young guys to take the diapers off.
PMC
February 20th, 2009
9:57 am
you’re missing one thing in the analysis though Jeff. Money is a huge reason any players go anywhere.
The Braves haven’t had these issues because the Braves typically aren’t bidding for so many free agents because most of the time they didn’t make huge trades for rent an offense like Mark Texiera because they had such good pitching they could have average offensive teams.
The Braves ownership are not willing to put the blank check out to go get guys. The Braves set the numbers and the guys who wanted them more paid them more. It’s a free market afterall. It’s not necessarily a bad thing they didn’t get any of these guys. They were going to be a flawed team this year like they were last year. I just wish they could have kept Ohman. Boyer will eventually fall apart like last year and Ohman was solid.
They aren’t coming here because the Braves aren’t known for paying premiums and that’s not necessarily a bad thing. The yankees, get ripped off year in and year out.
TommyP
February 20th, 2009
10:24 am
Jeff: Being a teacher, I agree with your teacher “$10 million” sentiment. But the money has to come from somewhere…
Just curious but didn’t every player the Braves pursued end up taking a more lucrative deal than what they offered?
$$$ fuels professional athletes.
ArkyTech
February 20th, 2009
10:46 am
You can’t throw sentimentality aside in this case! That WAS Griffey’s overriding factor. Plus they threw him a LIFETIME CONTRACT! The reason Griffey contacted the Braves is that he knew they would have a better chance at a postseason run.
Furcal and Burnett didn’t “choose” not to go to Atlanta – they knew the Braves had cash and were looking for players and used the Braves as leverage to get bigger contracts that they couldn’t get on their own.
Jan
February 20th, 2009
11:18 am
I think it’s kind of unsettling that so many people on this blog think that commenting on your appearance is somehow relevant in any way. Jeff, as long as you don’t look like the Elephant Man, you’re okay with me, as everyone else is. I judge people on their character, personality, and common sense. Your appearance is what your parents gave you and you had no control over it. Everything else, you manufacture on your own.
Scott
February 20th, 2009
11:27 am
If the Braves pitching staff remains relatively healthy and Frenchy will just relax and be himself, the Braves will have a good to very good season.
ET
February 20th, 2009
12:33 pm
Jeff,
So it must be easy to say the Braves should have “GIVEN” Smoltz 5 Million just because he was Smoltz when it isn’t your money. The fact that you think the Braves owed it to him makes me think you could be a tad insane. Didn’t we just “GIVE” him 8 Million last year for a cheer leading gig? If you think Smoltz deserves another 5 mil then I suggest you pay the man out of your deep pockets. Obviously you think this is chump change to the Braves…It would be chump change if it ended up in Smoltz pocket.
The greed of the players today makes me want to puke in my Sugar Smacks. Smoltz was handed 8 mil last year and wanted more where that came from. He got it in Boston. + I’ve followed the Braves since 1964. This team is only a year away from being good again. They just might make a liar out of you this year if the stars align Jeffery.
ET
February 20th, 2009
12:55 pm
About Furcal…
If my fading memory serves me correctly, didn’t Furcal want to stay in Atlanta when his contract ended with us, but we wouldn’t pay him what his agent wanted for his services? I remember Furcal getting his feelings hurt when he learned Atlanta wanted to spend their dollars elsewhere.
I think what Furcal did to us this off season was partly pay back for what happened back then. The other part, of course, was to jack up LA’s offer in bidding for him. This notion that these players would have taken less to play here if we some how could return to 1996 status is far fetched to me.
Money talks…Smoltz, Furcal, Burnett & Junior walks.
Jeff Schultz
February 20th, 2009
1:11 pm
PMC — I’m with you on Teixeira. I kept waiting for him to show that he could be a difference maker last year — or, at least that he WANTED to be a difference-maker — and I never saw it. But I think he’ll thrive on a team (yankees) where he doesn’t have to be the centerpiece. ….. Webhead: You’re welcome. …. TommyP: Not sure if everybody for more money, or just always intended on using the Braves. Also not certain that Furcal got more. Also, Hampton took less in Houston — but who really wanted him anyway? … Jan: If I took things personally, I’d be in therapy 17 hours a day. It’s just people venting — like drunks on a barstool. Doesn’t pay to get upset. … ET: not sure how the Braves could make a liar out of me since I haven’t predicted anything about them this year. And even if I did predict that they would win, like 84 games, and they won 94, that wouldn’t make me a liar. It would just make me wrong. …. On Furcal: I think he would’ve preferred to stay two (three?) years ago. But the Dodgers offered him ridiculous money. So obviously he was going to take it.
Ted Striker
February 20th, 2009
2:22 pm
Jeff — For a second I thought you were talking about ALL drunks on a barstool. Then I realized you were just talking about the OB/GYNoxious ones. (Whew) I almost ordered another double — before the latest one left my barmaid’s supple fingertips.
MA
February 20th, 2009
2:30 pm
Here’s what I wonder about: It was only *after* Griffey’s signing with Seattle that we finalized contracts with Glavine and avoided arbitration with Francoeur. Was what we were offering Griffey equal to the Glavine contract plus the diffference in what we’d originally offered Francoeur (and were likely to win in arbitration) and for what amount he signed? If so, then we’re *really* up against the internal budget cap.
ChopShop860
February 20th, 2009
2:46 pm
I wish Braves fans were a little more concerned with how the Braves are going to perform this season than some beat writer’s looks. Plus, you are all going to leave this guy with body image issues. Go Braves in ‘09.
Wondering
February 20th, 2009
10:16 pm
I wonder if they still negotiate with free agents as if they are still perpetual winners. There seems to be a disconnect from the front office.
CTRob
February 21st, 2009
7:58 am
I’m a relocated Georgian living here in Connecticut. Most of the baseball talk up here is either about A-Rod’s performance enhancing or if the Mets can finally avoid choking at the end of the season. As late as 2004, the Braves would come up in coversations involving the Met’s chances for the playoffs. Now, the Braves are viewed as having overpaid for Lowe and as pawns used by other free agents to get better deals elsewhere. The Red Sox would have welcomed Lowe back for his value as an innings eater but wouldn’t have paid that much for him…and they wouldn’t have had to. I’m looking forward to seeing Smoltz try to make a difference against the Yankees this year and am also hoping the Braves can do damage against Philly and the Mets. It’s not the 1990s anymore and those are my realistic goals as a Braves fan this year.
Jan
February 21st, 2009
8:46 am
Ted—-You must be the Cliff Clavin of Atlanta. Not only do you pontificate on every subject known to mankind, but you seem to have established your barstool territory. But quit drooling over the barmaids, tell Norm goodbye, and go home. Jeff, write another column soon. You see what we have resorted to writing about here, having exhausted Junior’s decision to locate in the northwest land of nerds, geeks, and liberals.
PTBNL
February 21st, 2009
10:41 am
Says a lot about not only how the Braves are perceived but also how Griffey perceives himself. He is not a difference maker. He has great stats, but he is not a winner.
Why do so many make so much out of what Smoltz gave the Braves and never mention that he got a lot FROM the Braves. The Braves made him into what people perceive him to be today. If he had not played for the Braves, who at the time had a good bit of money to toss around, he would not be known as the best post-season pitcher in MLB history (debatable, but sometimes given). Without TBS, without being on a winning team, who would Smoltz be? Who knows? If he “deserves” a gold watch, what do the Braves “deserve”?
Jeff, your article has some validity, but as is often the case it is certainly speculation. Griffey has not seemed to have been a ring chaser at any point. He has not mentioned anything about a ring. Personally, I think it is crazy to chase the ring as a primary goal. Many have tried and it can be illusive. You would have thought that A-Rod would have had one by now… but alas….. Some say that is what Smoltz has done. Again, if that is so, to me, it is sad. That certainly is the minority sentiment, but it not a majority rules issue.
In regard to perception, do you really want to base your life and decisions based on fan, ballplayers, or media perception? If anyone has followed baseball very long they and are honest about what they have perceived as opposed to what actually has taken place, they most certainly know that perceptions are blinding to the truth. IF your supposition is correct. And IF Griffey was thinking about chasing a ring, the thought that is set before him is “Am I enough of a difference maker to make this team a post-season contender.” IF then his answer to that is “NO”. Then I am glad he did not come to Atlanta.
IF you are trying to discourage our players from believing they are good enough to compete for the post-season, you have done something that might help. But I hope you do not succeed. Their perception of themselves could be important to how they play. Thanks for doing what you can to erode that.