Misled into a mistake, a decade later

bushiraq

Note: This incorporates material from a post published earlier on this blog. It is posted here as the electronic version of a column published in today’s dead-tree edition of the AJC.

—————–

Ten years ago today, the United States launched an unprovoked invasion of another country, an attack that was justified by claims of dire threats that our leaders knew to be false and exaggerated. More than 4,000 of our sons and daughters were to die as a result of that decision; tens of thousands more live today with physical and psychic wounds that have changed their lives forever.

The last of our soldiers to die in that war was named David Hickman. He was a recently married 23-year-old Army specialist from Greensboro, N.C. He was killed Nov. 14, 2011, by an improvised explosive device, a term that by the end had became all too familiar. The death toll continues even now within Iraq, with an average of a dozen people a day dying from political-related violence. More than 60 civilians were killed in a terrorist bombing Tuesday, a story that made headlines here only because it was timed to coincide with the war’s anniversary.

In other words, what was once deemed worth the investment of thousands of lives is now not deemed worthy even of notice.

Today, a majority of Americans have come to understand that the war was a mistake. However, that was not the case 10 years ago. In the wake of the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, our country was experiencing a degree of fear that it had not felt for decades. Under those conditions, it was all too easy for those in power to direct that fear wherever they wished, and to isolate and marginalize those Americans who dared to question the narrative as they spun it.

vulcanscropOne of the architects of that effort, former Vice President Dick Cheney, looks back on that era in a new documentary film that was televised last week on Showtime. Cheney played a decisive role in maneuvering a pliable, inexperienced and maybe somewhat frightened president into an unnecessary war. But in typical Cheney fashion, the vice president expresses not the slightest regret or doubt.

“I did what I did,” he told the filmmakers. “And it’s all part of the public record and I feel very good about it. If I had it to do over again, I’d do it in a minute.”

While we did succeed in removing the tyrannical Saddam from power, that part of the mission was never in real doubt. In other ways, however, the invasion has set American interests back significantly. Instead of serving as a military outpost for U.S. forces keeping Iran in check, Iraq today is all but an Iranian client state. Despite our investment of blood and treasure, we have little or no influence over Iraq’s policies or practices.

By fighting on two fronts at once, both in Iraq and Afghanistan, we also divided our manpower, financial resources and attention, ensuring that we achieved real victory in neither. We will never know whether a full commitment to Afghanistan in the early years would have paid off with success; we do know that the odds of ultimate success look very dim.

Cheney, President Bush, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz and others also lost the war here on the home front. The invasion launched 10 years ago today in a show of shock and awe was intended to mark a newly muscular and militaristic foreign policy, with the United States finally freed of the constraints once placed upon it by the Soviet Union.

That was the theory. In practice, the invasion of Iraq, driven by false promises of easy conquest and false threats of WMD, yellowcake, mushroom clouds and unmanned aerial vehicles, exposed the strategic overreach and arrogance implicit in such a policy. By his second term, a chastened President Bush had largely pushed Cheney aside. That recognition of his vice president’s malignant influence came too late to save his presidency.

Today, the ambitions of Cheney and his friends have been discredited. The lessons of Vietnam have been refreshed rather than overturned, and support is now growing even within the Republican Party for a less expensive military and a more circumspect use of force overseas. The remaining advocates of a Cheney-esque foreign policy — men such as John McCain and William Kristol — are left to stamp their feet in frustration.

If given the chance, they, like Cheney, would indeed be willing to do it all over again. But next time, the American people may be wise enough not to give them or others like them the opportunity.

– Jay Bookman

517 comments Add your comment

Normal, Plain and Simple

March 20th, 2013
7:57 am

If there really was justice in this country, that group of maniacs would be sitting in jail.

stands for decibels

March 20th, 2013
8:00 am

Jay, if I were you I would be crowing about how right I was at the time and how wrong the slimy, horrible corporate media I worked for really were.

(And then I would be dusting off my resume and telling my loved ones to get used to a diet of rice and beans, but I digress.)

Anyway, thank you, Jay, once again, for being a lonely voice of sanity at a time when almost nobody in the corporate media had the balls to say that the emperor had no clothes.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

March 20th, 2013
8:01 am

Today, the ambitions of Cheney and his friends have been discredited

Let’s hope so but after what we learned this week regarding Nixon’s treason to sabotage the Vietnam peace talks and keep that war going for 5 years so that he could win the election, I believe we will always have some in power that will try to convince us to throw good lives away for their gain.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

March 20th, 2013
8:02 am

Normal, I agree. If there is one of the things I vehemently disagree with Obama on is his failure to prosecute those criminals.

stands for decibels

March 20th, 2013
8:02 am

Here is something I was going to post downstairs, but it is totally on topic, really.

I gotta share this bit of… well, it’s inside baseball. Unfortunately. But it shouldn’t be.

I just went to news.google.com and entered “janeane garofalo iraq war” (without quotation marks) to see what might come up. I got exactly one hit:

http://mediamatters.org/research/2013/03/19/where-are-the-medias-iraq-war-boosters-10-years/193117

and while that’s a useful list of “where are they nows” for the Iraq War cheerleaders that will make your stomach turn, it misses what I was looking for, which was some acknowledgement, SOMEWHERE in the mainstream media, that people like Janeane Garofalo were among the very, very few who were allowed to represent the anti-Iraq invasion contingent on TV.

You had Janeane, and Mike Farrell, and Sean Penn. You know, “Hollyweird types.” People who were brought on the TeeVee so that smug a-hole hosts and their neo-con a-hole war boosters could smirk and say “See? THIS is the UNSERIOUSNESS opposed to the war! It is to laugh, yes?”

These “Hollyweird types” all knew full well that they were being used, but they did their best. They would acknowledge that there were more credible spokespeople–actual inspectors, etc.–who could’ve been representing that side of things. But the TeeVee didn’t want you to hear them.

I don’t want anyone reading this to forget how that went down. Maybe it will be a teensy-tiny bit harder for those murderous plutocrats to pull this off again, if we remember that particular piece of the overall strategy. Maybe.

anyway, nobody but Sam Seder seems to care enough to make a stink about this–like I said, I can’t find ANYTHING about Janeane in the news.googly thing regarding her lonely Iraq war opposition–but I do. I care. I want others to, too.

Granny Godzilla

March 20th, 2013
8:03 am

May God have mercy on Americas collective soul.

We sinned most grievously as a nation.

Jay

March 20th, 2013
8:03 am

I appreciate it, sfd. As I’ve said before, I learned a lot about my country and my industry in that experience, and some of it wasn’t all that great.

USinUK ... no longer a rainy Friday, but still mildly cranky

March 20th, 2013
8:03 am

TO THE EFFING HAGUE!!

AS I mentioned yesterday, Panorama did an amazing documentary on the spies that lied us into the war (and how quickly leadership on both sides of the pond lapped up what they had to say, without bothering to verify / validate). http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01rh8hd

Cheney isn’t the only one sticking to his “I’d do it again” stance – so is Blair.

May they both rot in hell for what they have done.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

March 20th, 2013
8:07 am

“Mission Accomplished” should have read “Deception achieved”

stands for decibels

March 20th, 2013
8:09 am

I learned a lot about my country and my industry in that experience, and some of it wasn’t all that great.

Indeed. And so did we all.

Doggone/GA

March 20th, 2013
8:09 am

NPR had an interview this AM with Richard Perle. I had to turn it off, couldn’t stomach listening to him justify what they did. It was like listening to Cheney

Mick

March 20th, 2013
8:12 am

jay

You certainly were not alone, I was on the street corners in conservative melbourne protesting and getting cursed at, middle finger salutes…I never had any doubts that this was a idiotic mistake of major proportions. The reality of how my fellow americans could be so easily manipulated was the scariest impact, it was and still is a sad chapter in our history…

Peadawg

March 20th, 2013
8:13 am

“If there really was justice in this country, that group of maniacs would be sitting in jail.”

That’d be A LOT of people. George Bush, his staff, members of Congress who voted for it, etc. etc.

USinUK ... no longer a rainy Friday, but still mildly cranky

March 20th, 2013
8:15 am

off to get my namaste on before my blood pressure skyrockets with this topic.

Doggone/GA

March 20th, 2013
8:16 am

“That’d be A LOT of people. George Bush, his staff, members of Congress who voted for it, etc. etc”

And THAT ^ sounds like you are trying to justify not prosecuting, for example, a drug gang because it’d “be a LOT of people”

Keep Up the Good Fight!

March 20th, 2013
8:17 am

Pea, you presume that members of Congress were aware that there was deception. I am not convinced that they were but I am disappointed that they did not listen to the whispers (and some screams) to the contrary.

Jerome Horwitz

March 20th, 2013
8:18 am

What is really sad about the whole is the way the populace has been manipulated into believing we’re being threatened by the Islamofacists who want to ruin our way of life. The dangers to the US are right on our doorstep, etc. Reading a book on Gen. George Marshall (a truly great man), you want a threat – try the Nazi’s and Japanese. Want worldwide dis-order – see Europe after the war and the threat of a Soviet takeover of all Europe, Greece, and Turkey. It could have happened very easily. Instead we tremble in the face of a few knuckleheads. Compared to what our fathers and mother faced we’re having a picnic.

DannyX

March 20th, 2013
8:18 am

The media, you know, the so-called “liberal media”, failed right along with the politicians. The media stood by and did no real reporting when Bush and Co were beating their war drums. They went along with everything the administration fed them, that meant they were consuming a lot of crap. CNN covered the initial Shock and Awe like the Super Bowl, ratings skyrocketed. Later on things like the removal of the statue were turned into made for cable news moments.

There were a few exceptions of course. Right here in fact. Jay Bookman was one of the few that weren’t cheer leading the war. Jay was right on the mark every step of the way.

stands for decibels

March 20th, 2013
8:19 am

I was on the street corners in conservative melbourne protesting and getting cursed at, middle finger salutes…

And I was not. I used to read Very Serious “Liberal” pundits like those at the New Republic who convinced me that while Team Bush might be over-represented with idiots, the Iraq invasion was the right thing to do. I thought our military and intelligence and diplomatic communities, with all this time to prepare for the outcome, had an efficient plan to install a friendly, not-horrible government that’d be an upgrade for the people there, and that as awful as it was to contemplate, continuing punitive sanctions ad infinitum were awfuller.

God forgive me.

Granny Godzilla

March 20th, 2013
8:19 am

Doggone/GA

March 20th, 2013
8:09 am
NPR had an interview this AM with Richard Perle. I had to turn it off, couldn’t stomach listening to him justify what they did. It was like listening to Cheney
.
.
.
.
Heard that and the end really ticked me off.

The interveiwer asked Pearle basically if after all we have learned
did he sill think it was worth it.

Pearle responded by slamming the question and then saying we “can’t”
go back look at what was done, because they believe they did the right thing.

I wanted to grab Pearle by the neck tie and shout
“WHO SAYS WE CAN’T you great big buffoon”.

We can, and we must review our past actions.

Jerome Horwitz

March 20th, 2013
8:20 am

ANd the picutre should be Bush in his flight suit.

Mick

March 20th, 2013
8:20 am

Ten years ago, I had an inkling of what it must have been like to be in nazi germany when the gov’t when after those of jewish heritage. The tide of fascism was close to overwhelming, bush was the puppet and cheney was pulling the strings, it was obvious to anyone who had a lick of sense…

Jay

March 20th, 2013
8:21 am

While I sympathize with the sentiment, I do not believe that prosecution would have been appropriate or possible. Criminalizing politics is a very dangerous step. The truth is that by the time the war began, a strong if not overwhelming majority of Americans supported it. This is a stain on our nation, not just on those individuals who led it at the time.

Peadawg

March 20th, 2013
8:21 am

“And THAT ^ sounds like you are trying to justify not prosecuting”

Nope. Just stating it for the record since people act like Bush was the only one.

Granny Godzilla

March 20th, 2013
8:22 am

There was a small group on the corner of Ronald Reagan Parkway and 124 every Thursday evening protesting the war for a long time…..

I was not there as much as I should have been.

It is my shame.

Paul

March 20th, 2013
8:23 am

The architects are either obstinate, in denial or.. they really believe they were correct. Any explanation is cause for concern for those who see themselves as ‘public servants.’

Some thought Vietnam would make us suspicious of those who want to take us to war and would be a force for change in a compliant military leadership. Seems, given what we’ve been hearing about ground troops in Syria (peacekeeping’s such a nice word) or war with Iran (but… but… it’s not really a war, just a limited strike…) the suspicion isn’t quite at the level it should be at. But, just maybe, the military has been disabused of its ‘hey, not my job’ attitude of ‘we win wars. What happens after isn’t our problem.” If Iraq has taught any group the error of having an insulated view of what it will and won’t be called upon to do, it ought to be that.

Doggone/GA

Just turned NPR to catch the replay. You’re right – no time is Perle time.

Mick

March 20th, 2013
8:24 am

**This is a stain on our nation, not just on those individuals who led it at the time.**

So true, the helplessness to stop the madness was overwhelming and we lost…

Pizzaman

March 20th, 2013
8:24 am

The “people” in the picture above shouldn’t be in jail, they shouldbe under it!

Ken

March 20th, 2013
8:25 am

Change a few words and peoples names and you have VietNam. 56,000 died.

stands for decibels

March 20th, 2013
8:25 am

The media, you know, the so-called “liberal media”, failed right along with the politicians. The media stood by and did no real reporting when Bush and Co were beating their war drums.

Stood by? Oh it was worse than that. Much, much worse.

The NYTimes had Judith Miller, she of the “I was proved f-cking right!” crowing, repeating outright lies. The WaPo had Richard Cohen making snide commentary about how only “Frenchmen” could possibly

And lest ANYONE forget the magnificence, the Mustache-of-Understanding, that heroic billionaire-by-marriage, Little Tommy Friedman, who like Cohen still has a high paying gig, who said that we needed to invade Iraq so that soldiers could go door to door and tell Iraqis to “suck on this.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwFaSpca_3Q

At least Judith Miller is stuck bobbing for chum over at Newsmax these days, but the rest of those horrible men are doing just fine, today

Normal, Plain and Simple

March 20th, 2013
8:26 am

Bottom line: We removed a Dictator we did not need to remove, based on the adage, “a known devil is better than an unknown devil”, we left a country in turmoil, as we knew we would, where hundreds of thousands have died and are dying now over sectarian hatreds.

And what was our cost for this “miracle of Liberation”? 4,000 dead, over 40,000 grievously wounded, and many, many millions of our national treasury lost…. and we may never even know how much money was lost.

Good job, Georgie! Good job, Dickie! Good job Condi! Etal…

bookman parrot

March 20th, 2013
8:26 am

must be nice to be jay, an all-knowing person … he knows the motives and thoughts of other people…

Doggone/GA

March 20th, 2013
8:28 am

“I am not convinced that they were but I am disappointed that they did not listen to the whispers (and some screams) to the contrary”

I have a different take on it, and did at the time. I think they committed something near treason by abdicating their consitutional responsiblity to declare war and handing it on a platter to the President.

stands for decibels

March 20th, 2013
8:28 am

ok, I messed up the bit about Cohen. Here’s his money quote from 2003:

“The evidence Colin Powell presented to the United Nations — some of it circumstantial, some of it absolutely bone-chilling in its detail — had to prove to anyone that Iraq not only hasn’t accounted for its weapons of mass destruction but without a doubt still retains them. Only a fool — or possibly a Frenchman — could conclude otherwise.”

Paul

March 20th, 2013
8:29 am

parrot

Still incapable of discussing issues, are we?

vinny

March 20th, 2013
8:29 am

If it was the wrong thing to do, why did the democrats in congress vote for it too? You fail to mention their hand in it Jay, nor Obama’s failur to pull the troops out and close Gitmo in the timeline that he promised.

Meanwhile, the most divisive ‘president’ in history is in Isreal and being protested by the Israeli citizens. obama is no friend of Israel and no friend of America.

Welcome to the Weenie Blog! Let the bedwetting begin!!

Doggone/GA

March 20th, 2013
8:30 am

“We can, and we must review our past actions”

Amen to that!

stands for decibels

March 20th, 2013
8:30 am

must be nice to be jay, an all-knowing person

Jay is nice. He won’t tell you to go die in a fire.

But he should.

Doggone/GA

March 20th, 2013
8:31 am

“Criminalizing politics is a very dangerous step. The truth is that by the time the war began, a strong if not overwhelming majority of Americans supported it”

Sorry Jay, but I don’t agree. It’s not “criminalizing politics”…it’s criminalizing WAR CRIMES.

Jay

March 20th, 2013
8:31 am

sfd, I had never been a fan of Cohen, but I too remember that one very well.

Overall, the refusal of major media outlets to look at things with even a modicum of skepticism was startling to me.

Doggone/GA

March 20th, 2013
8:32 am

“Just stating it for the record since people act like Bush was the only one.”

And who said he was?

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

March 20th, 2013
8:32 am

Well, I reckon what amazes me is, nobody went to jail. Not even that Scooter Libby that was pardoned right after he was convicted of lying. 4000 of our kids are dead and many thousands more are crippled for life and nobody went to jail. The only thing we got out of the whole pack of lies was people being treated like criminals at airports and the guvmint being allowed to snoop on us. But let some kid get caught with a couple ounces of pot and to prison he will go.

And nobody went to jail. 4000 kids are dead because of a pack of lies and thousands more are growing up without a parent and the people that lied us into war are treated like heros by many.

And nobody went to jail. Amazing.

Thomas Heyward Jr

March 20th, 2013
8:32 am

Obama pardoned the previous war criminals.
As the next criminals will pardon Obama.
.
Decent Americans will not.

stands for decibels

March 20th, 2013
8:33 am

Yep, vinny, just ignore the painful self-analysis, the recognition of failure of the liberal media, the beyond-bleedin’-obvious failure of Senators Kerry and Clinton, that everyone here already acknowledges.

Just post that ignorant crap @ 8.29. There’s a good lad, letting everyone know that you quite possibly possess a 3rd grader’s political acumen, at best.

Jerome Horwitz

March 20th, 2013
8:34 am

GG/DG – Thanks for the heads up on Perle. He’s still disgusting.

vinny – it was Congress that thwarted Gitmo and the Democratic reps that voted for this sham should be ashamed. War fever is easy to catch.

Normal, Plain and Simple

March 20th, 2013
8:35 am

Vinny,

It has been told time and time again, but you won’t listen. G. W. Bush and company fed Congress false or misleading information to get them to go along. Proven and verified. President Bush and his cronies started a war that was not needed, killed many, many for our American youth and crippled times ten more. For nothing. Period. The end.

stands for decibels

March 20th, 2013
8:36 am

Overall, the refusal of major media outlets to look at things with even a modicum of skepticism was startling to me.

Ten years on, it is still startling.

I do not expect such outlets to acknowledge anything more than perhaps 3% of what they should in the next couple of news cycles, however. That’s how they roll. There are “planes to catch, and bills to pay,” as a wise man once sang.

Fly-On-The-Wall

March 20th, 2013
8:36 am

Truly a sad anniversary to be remembered. Needless death, destruction, and suffering on such a large scale for no good reason.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

March 20th, 2013
8:36 am

“I did what I did,” he told the filmmakers. “And it’s all part of the public record and I feel very good about it. If I had it to do over again, I’d do it in a minute.”

And he’d still be a f*ck-wad.

Paul

March 20th, 2013
8:36 am

vinny

You seem to believe Democrats are supposed to do only the ‘right’ thing. I hope reality isn’t too crushing for you. The idea Democrats are human and all that.

“You fail to mention their hand in it Jay,”

You failed to read the section on ‘most Americans,’ eh?

” nor Obama’s failur to pull the troops out”

You really can’t be that ignorant, can you? We’ve had no troops there for over a year. Learn to do research, please…

” and close Gitmo in the timeline that he promised.”

And learn about the role of the Legislative branch in our federal government, okay?

Keep Up the Good Fight!

March 20th, 2013
8:37 am

I have a different take on it, and did at the time. I think they committed something near treason by abdicating their consitutional responsiblity to declare war and handing it on a platter to the President.

I don’t disagree on the failures of responsibility. Unfortunately it does not appear that other than a few at the top that we will know the true extent of what did they know and when did they know it. There was a lot of stupidity and chest thumping, there was some active intentional deception. It is the intentional deception that is horrific but again its not the first time we have been deceived and lied to.

stands for decibels

March 20th, 2013
8:37 am

Redneck, I can forgive you for coming dangerously close to dropping character, here.

for what that’s worth, from a longtime admirer.

/drive-by

Thomas Heyward Jr

March 20th, 2013
8:38 am

And with Obama expanding to TWENTY TWO MORE countries with drones and troops ………….Bill Krystal is hardly stomping his feet.
.
He’s smiling.
.
Progs are dangerous people.

Normal, Plain and Simple

March 20th, 2013
8:38 am

Jerome Horwitz

March 20th, 2013
8:34 am

“War fever is easy to catch.”

Only by those “Armchair Warriors”, who have never seen a battle. Those who have are less willing to fall for that particular bug again.

Granny Godzilla

March 20th, 2013
8:38 am

vinny

listen to Normal.

please.

alittlecommonsense

March 20th, 2013
8:39 am

In retrospect, I would prefer we never went into Iraq. At the time- in the wake of the hanging chad debacle, there was so much partisan Bush hate coming from the left that it was very difficult to seperate any rational arguments against the war from the rabid Bush hate that was going to oppose anything he did.

I think the left could have made a more coherent argument against the war if they were not so angry and bitter at the time. I personally tuned them out largely because of the tone of their argument.

mom 0f 3

March 20th, 2013
8:40 am

@granny 8:03 “We sinned most grievously as a nation.”

Are you talking about the millions of babies that we have slaughtered in the womb?

Normal, Plain and Simple

March 20th, 2013
8:40 am

Well said, Redneck doggone ya, well said, sir.

Doggone/GA

March 20th, 2013
8:41 am

“Unfortunately it does not appear that other than a few at the top that we will know the true extent of what did they know and when did they know it”

All they had to do was listen to the news. BEFORE we sent troops in. The info was out there and available. Reporting on the inspectors that were on the ground, reporting on the lies told about chemical labs on trucks. The lies were REPORTED. All they had to do was LISTEN.

mbtc

March 20th, 2013
8:41 am

I’ve often wondered if the investments of the pundit class, the likes of Hannity, Rush, Friedman et al are knowable. How much are these mouth pieces, on the right or left, or even the political class, invested in America’s war machine. To peel back the layer of conflicted interest, and expose whence they make their fortune, and why they argue as they do.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

March 20th, 2013
8:41 am

Despite it all, the armchair warriors are now chanting for an invasion of Syria.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

March 20th, 2013
8:41 am

I think the left could have made a more coherent argument against the war if they were not so angry and bitter at the time. I personally tuned them out largely because of the tone of their argument.

The reports were coming from the inspectors in Iraq that there were no weapons of mass destruction.

It’s no one’s fault but your own that you did not listen.

Recon 0311 2533

March 20th, 2013
8:42 am

Bush and Cheney get vilified for removing one of the most ruthless dictators in history who most Democrats and Republicans alike believed possessed WMD’s. All of this in the aftermath of a cowardly attack on American soil by radical Islamic terrorists whom this dictator supported that killed over 3000 innocent people. What about vilifying JFK, LBJ along with many congressional leaders who got this country into a war with North Vietnam that killed 58,000. Americans and then forsaken those lost lives by quitting that war out of political expediency. Far-left Democrats are absolute idiots.

Fly-On-The-Wall

March 20th, 2013
8:42 am

Oh geez, now we’re going to equate the unjust war in Iraq with the legal right of women to control their own bodies?

Dixie Chicks

March 20th, 2013
8:43 am

Fly-On-The-Wall

March 20th, 2013
8:44 am

Mom 0f 3 – nice try on the deflection but it won’t work.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

March 20th, 2013
8:44 am

Oh geez, now we’re going to equate the unjust war in Iraq with the legal right of women to control their own bodies?

That particular bit of trollism is called deflecturbation.

Jay

March 20th, 2013
8:45 am

Soon after Baghdad was taken, I also remember syndicated columnist Cal Thomas advocating creation of a “Truth Commission” that would haul opponents of the war before it and condemn them for their errors.

Granny Godzilla

March 20th, 2013
8:45 am

mom of three

no, I leave that to those who choose to interpret the words of Jesus Christ in a dangerously reactionary conservative manner.

Now, are you cheering for our botched war or just a drive by twinkie?

Jay

March 20th, 2013
8:46 am

“All of this in the aftermath of a cowardly attack on American soil by radical Islamic terrorists whom this dictator supported that killed over 3000 innocent people.”

The zombie lies continue….

Paul

March 20th, 2013
8:46 am

Recon

” All of this in the aftermath of a cowardly attack on American soil by radical Islamic terrorists whom this dictator supported that killed over 3000 innocent people.”

Source?

“What about vilifying JFK, LBJ along with many congressional leaders who got this country into a war with North Vietnam ”

Vilification caused LBJ to not seek a second term. Not so with Bush.

Granny Godzilla

March 20th, 2013
8:48 am

REcon

Did you completely miss the late 60’s and early 70’s?

Who do you think finally forced an end to the Vietnam debacle?

Didn’t see any righties marching to end the war….getting shot…arrested…

Private Twinkie dismissed.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

March 20th, 2013
8:48 am

Recon, funny that you mention LBJ but not Nixon who intentionally sabotaged LBJ peace talks to continue the war so he could be elected.

The belief that there was a WMD risk was part of the deception and lies. In reality, Bush & Co. knew that it was a lie they were presenting to the American public

Recon 0311 2533

March 20th, 2013
8:48 am

The zombie lies continue…

Where’s the lie Jay?

Doggone/GA

March 20th, 2013
8:49 am

“radical Islamic terrorists whom this dictator supported”

Yeah, right. He supported radical Islamist who wanted him out of there because they considered HIM to be anit-Islamic due to Iraq’s relative freedom for women.

SUUUUUUUURE he suported them.

alittlecommonsense

March 20th, 2013
8:49 am

“The reports were coming from the inspectors in Iraq that there were no weapons of mass destruction.”

That’s a debatable point. You can look at a little more balanced argument here -
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Did_George_Bush_lie_about_the_WMDs_in_Iraq

Thomas Heyward Jr

March 20th, 2013
8:50 am

The only thing that comes even close to the entertainment value of reading Collectivists’ arguments over economics is those same collectivist statists woefully claiming to lament state-sponsored violence.
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lol
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First they came for our women………..
then our gays…………….
now………………………………….everybody.
Effing progs.
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The “Universal National Services Act” of 2013 (H.R. 748) was proposed by Representative Charles Rangel (D-NY) on February 15, 2013 and referred to the Subcommittee on Military Personnel on March 6th. The summary is as follows:

“To require all persons in the United States between the ages of 18 and 25 to perform national service, either as a member of the uniformed services or as civilian service in a Federal, State, or local government program or with a community-based agency or community-based entity, to authorize the induction of persons in the uniformed services during wartime to meet end-strength requirements of the uniformed services, to provide for the registration of women under the Military Selective Service Act, and for other purposes.”

ZoSo

March 20th, 2013
8:50 am

“[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq’s refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs.” — From a letter signed by Joe Lieberman, Dianne Feinstein, Barbara A. Milulski, Tom Daschle, & John Kerry among others on October 9, 1998

“This December will mark three years since United Nations inspectors last visited Iraq. There is no doubt that since that time, Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to refine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer- range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies.” — From a December 6, 2001 letter signed by Bob Graham, Joe Lieberman, Harold Ford, & Tom Lantos among others

“Whereas Iraq has consistently breached its cease-fire agreement between Iraq and the United States, entered into on March 3, 1991, by failing to dismantle its weapons of mass destruction program, and refusing to permit monitoring and verification by United Nations inspections; Whereas Iraq has developed weapons of mass destruction, including chemical and biological capabilities, and has made positive progress toward developing nuclear weapons capabilities” — From a joint resolution submitted by Tom Harkin and Arlen Specter on July 18, 2002

“Saddam’s goal … is to achieve the lifting of U.N. sanctions while retaining and enhancing Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction programs. We cannot, we must not and we will not let him succeed.” — Madeline Albright, 1998

“(Saddam) will rebuild his arsenal of weapons of mass destruction and some day, some way, I am certain he will use that arsenal again, as he has 10 times since 1983″ — National Security Adviser Sandy Berger, Feb 18, 1998

“Iraq made commitments after the Gulf War to completely dismantle all weapons of mass destruction, and unfortunately, Iraq has not lived up to its agreement.” — Barbara Boxer, November 8, 2002

“The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retained some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capability. Intelligence reports also indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons, but has not yet achieved nuclear capability.” — Robert Byrd, October 2002

“There’s no question that Saddam Hussein is a threat… Yes, he has chemical and biological weapons. He’s had those for a long time. But the United States right now is on a very much different defensive posture than we were before September 11th of 2001… He is, as far as we know, actively pursuing nuclear capabilities, though he doesn’t have nuclear warheads yet. If he were to acquire nuclear weapons, I think our friends in the region would face greatly increased risks as would we.” — Wesley Clark on September 26, 2002

“What is at stake is how to answer the potential threat Iraq represents with the risk of proliferation of WMD. Baghdad’s regime did use such weapons in the past. Today, a number of evidences may lead to think that, over the past four years, in the absence of international inspectors, this country has continued armament programs.” — Jacques Chirac, October 16, 2002

“The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow.” — Bill Clinton in 1998

“In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security.” — Hillary Clinton, October 10, 2002

“I am absolutely convinced that there are weapons…I saw evidence back in 1998 when we would see the inspectors being barred from gaining entry into a warehouse for three hours with trucks rolling up and then moving those trucks out.” — Clinton’s Secretary of Defense William Cohen in April of 2003

“Iraq is not the only nation in the world to possess weapons of mass destruction, but it is the only nation with a leader who has used them against his own people.” — Tom Daschle in 1998

“Saddam Hussein’s regime represents a grave threat to America and our allies, including our vital ally, Israel. For more than two decades, Saddam Hussein has sought weapons of mass destruction through every available means. We know that he has chemical and biological weapons. He has already used them against his neighbors and his own people, and is trying to build more. We know that he is doing everything he can to build nuclear weapons, and we know that each day he gets closer to achieving that goal.” — John Edwards, Oct 10, 2002

“The debate over Iraq is not about politics. It is about national security. It should be clear that our national security requires Congress to send a clear message to Iraq and the world: America is united in its determination to eliminate forever the threat of Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction.” — John Edwards, Oct 10, 2002

“I share the administration’s goals in dealing with Iraq and its weapons of mass destruction.” — Dick Gephardt in September of 2002

“Iraq does pose a serious threat to the stability of the Persian Gulf and we should organize an international coalition to eliminate his access to weapons of mass destruction. Iraq’s search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to completely deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power.” — Al Gore, 2002

“We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction.” — Bob Graham, December 2002

“Saddam Hussein is not the only deranged dictator who is willing to deprive his people in order to acquire weapons of mass destruction.” — Jim Jeffords, October 8, 2002

“We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction.” — Ted Kennedy, September 27, 2002

“There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein’s regime is a serious danger, that he is a tyrant, and that his pursuit of lethal weapons of mass destruction cannot be tolerated. He must be disarmed.” — Ted Kennedy, Sept 27, 2002

“I will be voting to give the president of the United States the authority to use force – if necessary – to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security.” — John F. Kerry, Oct 2002

“The threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but as I said, it is not new. It has been with us since the end of that war, and particularly in the last 4 years we know after Operation Desert Fox failed to force him to reaccept them, that he has continued to build those weapons. He has had a free hand for 4 years to reconstitute these weapons, allowing the world, during the interval, to lose the focus we had on weapons of mass destruction and the issue of proliferation.” — John Kerry, October 9, 2002

“(W)e need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime. We all know the litany of his offenses. He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. …And now he is miscalculating America�s response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction. That is why the world, through the United Nations Security Council, has spoken with one voice, demanding that Iraq disclose its weapons programs and disarm. So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but it is not new. It has been with us since the end of the Persian Gulf War.” — John Kerry, Jan 23, 2003

“We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandates of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them.” — Carl Levin, Sept 19, 2002

“Every day Saddam remains in power with chemical weapons, biological weapons, and the development of nuclear weapons is a day of danger for the United States.” — Joe Lieberman, August, 2002

“Over the years, Iraq has worked to develop nuclear, chemical and biological weapons. During 1991 – 1994, despite Iraq’s denials, U.N. inspectors discovered and dismantled a large network of nuclear facilities that Iraq was using to develop nuclear weapons. Various reports indicate that Iraq is still actively pursuing nuclear weapons capability. There is no reason to think otherwise. Beyond nuclear weapons, Iraq has actively pursued biological and chemical weapons.U.N. inspectors have said that Iraq’s claims about biological weapons is neither credible nor verifiable. In 1986, Iraq used chemical weapons against Iran, and later, against its own Kurdish population. While weapons inspections have been successful in the past, there have been no inspections since the end of 1998. There can be no doubt that Iraq has continued to pursue its goal of obtaining weapons of mass destruction.” — Patty Murray, October 9, 2002

“As a member of the House Intelligence Committee, I am keenly aware that the proliferation of chemical and biological weapons is an issue of grave importance to all nations. Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process.” — Nancy Pelosi, December 16, 1998

“Even today, Iraq is not nearly disarmed. Based on highly credible intelligence, UNSCOM [the U.N. weapons inspectors] suspects that Iraq still has biological agents like anthrax, botulinum toxin, and clostridium perfringens in sufficient quantity to fill several dozen bombs and ballistic missile warheads, as well as the means to continue manufacturing these deadly agents. Iraq probably retains several tons of the highly toxic VX substance, as well as sarin nerve gas and mustard gas. This agent is stored in artillery shells, bombs, and ballistic missile warheads. And Iraq retains significant dual-use industrial infrastructure that can be used to rapidly reconstitute large-scale chemical weapons production.” — Ex-Un Weapons Inspector Scott Ritter in 1998

“There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years. And that may happen sooner if he can obtain access to enriched uranium from foreign sources — something that is not that difficult in the current world. We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction.” — John Rockefeller, Oct 10, 2002

“Saddam�s existing biological and chemical weapons capabilities pose a very real threat to America, now. Saddam has used chemical weapons before, both against Iraq�s enemies and against his own people. He is working to develop delivery systems like missiles and unmanned aerial vehicles that could bring these deadly weapons against U.S. forces and U.S. facilities in the Middle East.” — John Rockefeller, Oct 10, 2002

“Whether one agrees or disagrees with the Administration�s policy towards Iraq, I don�t think there can be any question about Saddam�s conduct. He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do. He lies and cheats; he snubs the mandate and authority of international weapons inspectors; and he games the system to keep buying time against enforcement of the just and legitimate demands of the United Nations, the Security Council, the United States and our allies. Those are simply the facts.” — Henry Waxman, Oct 10, 2002

kayaker 71

March 20th, 2013
8:51 am

So, we are to ignore the warnings and support of all of those left wing people in power who supported the war and voted for funding to make it happen. Hell, one of them is our immediate past Sec of State, a possible 2016 presidential candidate and another one is the present Sec of State. Then you have one of the most revered liberals in history, that multitasking Slick Willy putting his personal stamp of approval on this fiasco. Do they all belong in jail with Bush and friends or is just a liberal lynching of Bushie and the boys?

Jay

March 20th, 2013
8:52 am

” At the time- in the wake of the hanging chad debacle, there was so much partisan Bush hate coming from the left that it was very difficult to seperate any rational arguments against the war from the rabid Bush hate that was going to oppose anything he did.

And that is simply wrong as well, a blatant rewriting of history. There was almost no criticism of Bush post-9/11, when he had a 90 percent job approval rating, and most Democratic leaders were very careful NOT to say anything harsh about him or the plans then underway for war.

Mick

March 20th, 2013
8:52 am

**All of this in the aftermath of a cowardly attack on American soil by radical Islamic terrorists whom this dictator supported that killed over 3000 innocent people**

Not even close to a factual statement…saddam had nothing to do with al queda proven time and time again…they hated each other..

mbtc

March 20th, 2013
8:52 am

“Criminalizing politics is a very dangerous step.”

The republicans don’t seem to have a problem with it; trying for years to find something that would stick, then impeaching Clinton. Would do it to Obama too if they could find anytghing to stick.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

March 20th, 2013
8:53 am

Do they all belong in jail with Bush and friends or is just a liberal lynching of Bushie and the boys?

If they were a part of the conspiracy of deception and not just guilty of stupidity, yes they should be in jail with Bush.

Paul

March 20th, 2013
8:54 am

Recon

“Where’s the lie”

As was posted earlier, you asserted “a cowardly attack on American soil by radical Islamic terrorists whom this dictator supported that killed over 3000 innocent people.””

Where’s the truth?

Got a source? Or an explanation of the reasoning that led you to make the statement?

atler8

March 20th, 2013
8:54 am

Jay,
Like you I was extremely suspicious & cautious of our motives & what we were being told as the war drums were beaten & the justifications & pretexts for an invasion of Iraq were laid down. As a matter of fact, I clipped out a thought-provoking column you wrote around the time the invasion. I ran across it a few months ago in my archive of stuff at home.
A main point that I was left with from your writing was the caution that we might end up seeing the the policy blow up in our faces, as it did, and that our justification for war in Iraq may have been deceitfully presented by our leaders, which it was.
I recall that at about the same time, a woman from Cobb County wrote a letter to the AJC in which she related her experience in Cobb when President Bush visited that county and she dared to show up on his motorcade route with a sign of dissent against the invasion. For expressing her opinion, she was cursed & spat on by the “patriots” who were there in suport of the president. I thought at the time, “God help us” as we morphes into semi-fascist, jingoistic behavior more suited to the Nazi era in Germany than to what I thought America was all about.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

March 20th, 2013
8:55 am

… most Democrats and Republicans alike believed possessed WMD’s.

Most Democrats?

While most Democrats in the Senate voted in favor of the Iraq resolution (29 for, 21 against), the House was overwhelmingly against (82 for, 126 against).

Totals:
111 for
147 against

Clear evidence that “most Democrats” were not in favor of invading Iraq.

Welcome to the Occupation

March 20th, 2013
8:57 am

Jay: “The invasion launched 10 years ago today in a show of shock and awe was intended to mark a newly muscular and militaristic foreign policy, with the United States finally freed of the constraints once placed upon it by the Soviet Union”

But don’t forget that it was also supposed to demonstrate the utter futility of popular protest, the fact that we had finally shaken our Vietnam-era “decadence” and self-doubt. No longer would the nattering nabobs be able to stab the nation’s true masculine spirit in the back and hold it back with wimpy cries of moralism.

Well, in that sense the project has succeeded in terrifying ways, as it was the first real test case in massive defiance of legality by our ruling class where not a single person was made to pay for their crimes, a cover-up that became the template for the financial crimes of Wall St. a few years later and has continued by BOTH parties to this day (see Mr. “let’s look forward, not backwards”).

stands for decibels

March 20th, 2013
8:57 am

Jay, two things:

1) I looked it up, it wasn’t a “truth commission” Cal Thomas wanted, but rather a… well, let’s let Cal tell the tale:

“cultural war crimes tribunal” be convened, at which people from academia, the media, government and the clergy who were wrong in their assessment of communism would be forced to confront their mistakes. While not wishing to deprive anyone of his or her right to be wrong, it wouldn’t hurt for these people to be held accountable.

http://townhall.com/columnists/calthomas/2003/04/15/false_media_prophets

2) Please, for the love of God, have your IT guys install a character limiter so that spammy copy/pasted crap like ZoSo’s doesn’t get dumped in here. If you can’t make your OWN point in (say) 600 words or less, go get your own damn blog.

/drive-by, probably done with this for awhile…

GT

March 20th, 2013
8:58 am

This country has lost its guts; we have become a nation of fear. I am not talking about going to war, carrying a gun and the brain-dead ideas of the right to fake courage where there is none. I’m talking about the courage to be an individual. Watergate, Vietnam, Nixon would have gone unnoticed in the generations of mass produced thinking, art and literature, were not what made this country great. It was the freedom to be different. Great men or women don’t look like common people; it takes guts to be great.

The man with the real guts is the man today that stands up in a church and says stop hijacking my church with your political agenda of hate, stop mass producing personality, stop being afraid of failure it is the food of success. We need men like Murrey Marder who died this week, that had the guts to stand up to Red-baiting Senator Joe McCarthy, McCarty a man we seem to have in multiple supply in this modern world. Why? Because we haven’t got the guts to tell him to shut up.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

March 20th, 2013
8:59 am

That’s a debatable point.

Nope.

Reports from the inspectors were coming out before Bush pulled them out.

Again, you didn’t believe them?

That’s on you.

ZoSo

March 20th, 2013
8:59 am

I didn’t have to make a point. It was already there. Ignore the truth if you want, but if they were lies, why were so many other people lying?

kayaker 71

March 20th, 2013
8:59 am

Read ZoSo’s 8:50 post very carefully before you get out the rope and throw it over a tree limb. Bush might have a lot of liberal company on that tree.

alittlecommonsense

March 20th, 2013
8:59 am

Some quotes from the link I sent above (worth reading & pretty balanced) -

“If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction program.”
President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998.

“Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process.”
Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998.

Many more such quotes are in that article. So why when we had been hearing about Iraq’s WMD program for years would someone believe there was no such program? You can’t just ignore the fact that we had been talking about the Iraq WMD program as a known fact across both Democrat and Republican administrations.

Mick

March 20th, 2013
8:59 am

If al gore would have rightfully become president it is entirely possibble that 9/11 might not have happened, but what we definitely know that he would not have invaded iraq.
What a lousy path our country took when bush was installed. It’s like we were cursed both politically, and in the end economically. Eight years that changed america for the worst…

splavistic

March 20th, 2013
9:00 am

Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld. I thank you for what your actions have accomplished. Seriously, if there is ANY good to come from your utter failure, it is to finally put a nail in the xenophobic, anti-American values political party called the GOP.

The GOP Cares More About Rebuilding Iraq Than Rebuilding America

March 20th, 2013
9:01 am

America continues to crumble while Republicans insist on spending cuts to offset rebuilding the country. Several natural disasters have struck the nation this year. Wildfires have savaged Texas, an earthquake rocked the East, hurricanes have slammed the southern and eastern coastlines, and tornadoes have ripped through the South. Yet, Republicans have no sympathy whatsoever for those affected by these disasters. They simply refuse to approve the funding necessary to rebuild America unless spending cuts are made to offset it. But apparently, they were perfectly willing to approve $50 billion of funding to rebuild Iraq, and they didn’t call for a single dollar in cuts to offset it.

According to FEMA, disasters have caused approximately $36 billion in damages across the country, and many Republicans have held their own states hostage in an effort to gut programs they hate such as Social Security, Medicare, and education in exchange for approving the funding these states need to rebuild. Eric Cantor told the residents of his own disaster afflicted district that aid would only arrive if spending cuts were made. Senators John Cornyn and Richard Burr Have joined Cantor.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2011/09/13/the-gop-cares-more-about-rebuilding-iraq-than-rebuilding-america/

Jay

March 20th, 2013
9:01 am

Recon, Saddam did not support radical Islamic terrorists. He opposed them bitterly — as they opposed him — because he saw them as a threat to his regime. That is not a matter of dispute.

Also, Zoso provides the proof to repudiate the claim by alittlecommonsense that “there was so much partisan hate coming from the left”.

I should note, however, that Sen. Bob Graham, at the time the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, voted AGAINST the war resolution because he said the intel just was not there. That’s one reason why I have never given Hillary, another member of that committee, any slack on her vote in support. She had every opportunity to know better, and chose otherwise.

For the record, a large majority of House Democrats voted against the war resolution (vote was 82 in favor, 126 against), and 21 of 50 Senate Dems did so as well.

Six Republicans in the House and one in the Senate joined those Dems in voting no.

Paul

March 20th, 2013
9:01 am

Recon

Are you thinking maybe you had it wrong about that link between Saddam and the 9-11 attackers?

Experiencing a little dissonance, thinking that puts you in the same category as Democrats who voted to go to war in Iraq based upon a false understanding?

mm

March 20th, 2013
9:02 am

Four thousand dead Americans.

Hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis.

Over a million displaced Iraqis.

All for oil. Hussein had nationalized their oil. But Dick and George were stooges for the American oil companies. The oil companies wanted to get their hands on that oil. And they did. Did it help the US? No. They are selling it on the world market.

DannyX

March 20th, 2013
9:02 am

Here’s were Republicans get just down right creepy.

Iraq war, 4,000 dead soldiers, thousands more injured, trillion dollars wasted.

BENGHAZI!, 4 American deaths, 3 injured.

Now, which one of those events did Republicans go completely ballistic over?