Misled into a mistake, a decade later
Note: This incorporates material from a post published earlier on this blog. It is posted here as the electronic version of a column published in today’s dead-tree edition of the AJC.
—————–
Ten years ago today, the United States launched an unprovoked invasion of another country, an attack that was justified by claims of dire threats that our leaders knew to be false and exaggerated. More than 4,000 of our sons and daughters were to die as a result of that decision; tens of thousands more live today with physical and psychic wounds that have changed their lives forever.
The last of our soldiers to die in that war was named David Hickman. He was a recently married 23-year-old Army specialist from Greensboro, N.C. He was killed Nov. 14, 2011, by an improvised explosive device, a term that by the end had became all too familiar. The death toll continues even now within Iraq, with an average of a dozen people a day dying from political-related violence. More than 60 civilians were killed in a terrorist bombing Tuesday, a story that made headlines here only because it was timed to coincide with the war’s anniversary.
In other words, what was once deemed worth the investment of thousands of lives is now not deemed worthy even of notice.
Today, a majority of Americans have come to understand that the war was a mistake. However, that was not the case 10 years ago. In the wake of the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, our country was experiencing a degree of fear that it had not felt for decades. Under those conditions, it was all too easy for those in power to direct that fear wherever they wished, and to isolate and marginalize those Americans who dared to question the narrative as they spun it.
One of the architects of that effort, former Vice President Dick Cheney, looks back on that era in a new documentary film that was televised last week on Showtime. Cheney played a decisive role in maneuvering a pliable, inexperienced and maybe somewhat frightened president into an unnecessary war. But in typical Cheney fashion, the vice president expresses not the slightest regret or doubt.
“I did what I did,” he told the filmmakers. “And it’s all part of the public record and I feel very good about it. If I had it to do over again, I’d do it in a minute.”
While we did succeed in removing the tyrannical Saddam from power, that part of the mission was never in real doubt. In other ways, however, the invasion has set American interests back significantly. Instead of serving as a military outpost for U.S. forces keeping Iran in check, Iraq today is all but an Iranian client state. Despite our investment of blood and treasure, we have little or no influence over Iraq’s policies or practices.
By fighting on two fronts at once, both in Iraq and Afghanistan, we also divided our manpower, financial resources and attention, ensuring that we achieved real victory in neither. We will never know whether a full commitment to Afghanistan in the early years would have paid off with success; we do know that the odds of ultimate success look very dim.
Cheney, President Bush, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz and others also lost the war here on the home front. The invasion launched 10 years ago today in a show of shock and awe was intended to mark a newly muscular and militaristic foreign policy, with the United States finally freed of the constraints once placed upon it by the Soviet Union.
That was the theory. In practice, the invasion of Iraq, driven by false promises of easy conquest and false threats of WMD, yellowcake, mushroom clouds and unmanned aerial vehicles, exposed the strategic overreach and arrogance implicit in such a policy. By his second term, a chastened President Bush had largely pushed Cheney aside. That recognition of his vice president’s malignant influence came too late to save his presidency.
Today, the ambitions of Cheney and his friends have been discredited. The lessons of Vietnam have been refreshed rather than overturned, and support is now growing even within the Republican Party for a less expensive military and a more circumspect use of force overseas. The remaining advocates of a Cheney-esque foreign policy — men such as John McCain and William Kristol — are left to stamp their feet in frustration.
If given the chance, they, like Cheney, would indeed be willing to do it all over again. But next time, the American people may be wise enough not to give them or others like them the opportunity.
– Jay Bookman
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517 comments Add your comment
USinUK ... no longer a rainy Friday, but still mildly cranky
March 20th, 2013
11:21 am
“I am not going to boycott him for it”
gah.
boycott him for his crappy, maudlin music since “can you feel the love tonight”
ITS ALL BUSH'S FAULT
March 20th, 2013
11:21 am
ITS STILL ALL BUSH’S FAULT.
Dunwoody Granny
March 20th, 2013
11:21 am
Marty, probably a lot of folks here WERE against the war from the jump.
That’s one of the reasons we’re here rather than on the Faux News website. (Although I do go there to see what they’re thinking.)
BuckWheat
March 20th, 2013
11:21 am
Holding grudges for such lengthy periods is really bad for you. It seems anytime progressives can evoke the ghost of GW it peps them up or does it bring them down? WE have bigger problems now than we had then so can we move on?
godless heathen - owner of many things he does not need
March 20th, 2013
11:21 am
Well, my rant @ 8.02 about Janeane Garofalo, that was at least somewhat original, wasn’t it?
I’ll give you that.
ITS ALL BUSH'S FAULT
March 20th, 2013
11:22 am
No grudges asclown just the facts…
Marty Huggins'
March 20th, 2013
11:22 am
Doggone/GA
March 20th, 2013
11:06 am
Well, there is a distinction between a “war”, an “armed conflict” and a “humanitarian intervention”
Knowing those will answer your question without any opinion or pontificating from me.
http://socialsciences.people.hawaii.edu/publications_lib/Civil-MilitaryUnity.pdf
moonbat betty
March 20th, 2013
11:22 am
“Can anyone on this forum convince me that we have engaged in any wars since WWII that were vital to the security of our shores..or otherwise was worth the death of a single citizen?”
Impossible to say as we can never know how history would have been affected if different course of actions would have been made.
Morality?
March 20th, 2013
11:22 am
Jay is it true that you are BOTH OCD and ADD and feel you have to be perfect but only for a short time?
USinUK ... no longer a rainy Friday, but still mildly cranky
March 20th, 2013
11:23 am
“Holding grudges for such lengthy periods is really bad for you”
tens of thousands of dead Iraqis and allied troops say “what?”
Jm
March 20th, 2013
11:23 am
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/03/20/gerald-m-steinberg-netanyahu-is-from-mars-obama-is-from-venus/
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
March 20th, 2013
11:23 am
“Reports are coming in from Israel that President Obama’s limousine, often called “The Beast,” has broken down. ”
it got stuck in Ireland
Jm want to immigrate to Singapore.
He’ll end up in Bangalore.
DannyX
March 20th, 2013
11:23 am
“Going to see Elton John in concert tonight in Macon, Ga. – see, I don’t agree with some of his politics but I believe, unlike the far, far left that he has a right to his opinion and I am not going to boycott him for it. I will also be eating at Chick – Fil – A.”
What a crock. Everyone has a right to their own opinion. People that boycott Chick Fil A have the right to express their opinion by not giving Chick Fil A their business.
People can also express their support for Chick Fil A by eating there everyday.
Morality?
March 20th, 2013
11:24 am
11:22 War against obesity.
Marty Huggins'
March 20th, 2013
11:24 am
Dunwoody Granny
March 20th, 2013
11:21 am
According to the poll used 90% or near 90% approval one week after troops feet hit the ground.
But fantasy is fun so just say Fox News and maybe a unicorn will appear.
moonbat betty
March 20th, 2013
11:24 am
JamVet, if you are still out there, you should sign up for Fred’s March Madness bracket.
td
March 20th, 2013
11:25 am
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
March 20th, 2013
11:08 am
If our economy does not survive then we do not survive as a nation and our children do not prosper.
The ends justify the means.
Not rational, rationalizing.
Someone has to be the leader, the most powerful, the largest economy. Why not us? Why is it that you bed wetters want to degrade your own nation for leading? BTW: A nation CAN NOT lead without the strongest military. If we are not the leader then some other nation WILL take up the mantel. What nation do you bed wetters want to lead?
QE 4 EVAH?
March 20th, 2013
11:25 am
Obama thinks it was a success. So much so that had people working to extend our stay there.
How the Obama administration bungled the Iraq withdrawal negotiations
http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/10/21/how_the_obama_administration_bungled_the_iraq_withdrawal_negotiations
DannyX
March 20th, 2013
11:25 am
“boycott him for his crappy, maudlin music since “can you feel the love tonight””
Morality?
March 20th, 2013
11:26 am
11:23 _ I do and even if I didn’t I would still eat there ’cause it is better than Bubba King and McFat.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
March 20th, 2013
11:26 am
Well seems everyone here was against the war from the jump!
Me I was a young buck in college not really informed and was still to obedient to authority without much skepticism full disclosure.
No one else’s fault but your own, sport.
stands for decibels
March 20th, 2013
11:28 am
About Reg Dwight (who I did happen to see live, long ago)?
I think most who go see him expect to mostly hear stuff from 20-40 years ago, and I’m sure he still delivers the goods.
stands for decibels
March 20th, 2013
11:28 am
Bubba King and McFat.
heh, heh, heh.
Jay
March 20th, 2013
11:29 am
““Going to see Elton John in concert tonight in Macon, Ga. – see, I don’t agree with some of his politics but I believe, unlike the far, far left that he has a right to his opinion and I am not going to boycott him for it. I will also be eating at Chick – Fil – A.”
Yeah. Here’s what I’ve got to say about that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pojL_35QlSI
In fact, that might justify a blogpost of its own.
Regnad Kcin
March 20th, 2013
11:30 am
““boycott him for his crappy, maudlin music since “can you feel the love tonight””
…or since he dissed Marilyn Monroe by re-treading her song “Candle in the Wind” for a philandering hussy…
Dunwoody Granny
March 20th, 2013
11:30 am
Unicorns only appear to virgins.
td
March 20th, 2013
11:30 am
Welcome to the Occupation
March 20th, 2013
11:15 am
“Heck, the original name for the Iraq invasion showed that: Operation Iraqi Liberation
OIL”
It’s more than simply oil, Doggone.
It’s about symbolism. Assertion of hegemony and a flexing of unilateral will as the dominant force in geopolitical affairs. Pax Americana to out-Rome Rome.
So who should be leading the world if not us? Please do not tell us some utopic vision that all nations should be equal or no nation should be the most powerful because that is nothing more then a BS fantasy. There has never been a time in the history of the world when the strongest, most powerful and most aggressive nation did not lead.
Morality?
March 20th, 2013
11:30 am
11:25 – Guess you like RAP and HIP HOP……. no talent, no imagination – just random four letter words.
BuckWheat
March 20th, 2013
11:32 am
tens of thousands of dead Iraqis and allied troops say “what?”
So those who died during this war have elected/authorized USinUK to be their chairman of social consciousness? Keep on ranting and raving.
Regnad Kcin
March 20th, 2013
11:33 am
“Guess you like RAP and HIP HOP……. no talent, no imagination – just random four letter words”
================
Come mothers and fathers throughout the land
And don’t criticize what you can’t understand…
-Robert Zimmerman
JamVet
March 20th, 2013
11:33 am
That’s one of the reasons we’re here rather than on the Faux News website. (Although I do go there to see what they’re thinking.)
Yes, i noticed how Mr. Wingfield stepped way out of his comfort zone and also has a thread about the 10th anniversary of the beginning of Viet Nam, Part 2.
Oh wait. My bad…
betty, thanks, but no thanks. (And that is all I’m going to say about that. LOL)
And right on, JB!
Not knowing if Jay was gonna up this can of kickass worms, I was gonna post this last night in regards to some thoughts about a certain woman having the courage to stand up to loudmouthed chickenhawks..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dom7VlltBUc
Marty Huggins'
March 20th, 2013
11:34 am
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
March 20th, 2013
11:26 am
Did I say it was?
Why it said full disclosure.
I find it odd 90% supported it at time but rarely do you hear one claim it now.
I did, didn’t say it was anyone’s fault, took responsibility for it actually.
Now for another full disclosure just for you.
I do not like not have small dogs.
Simple reasons I do not like that they bark without apparent reason, not knowing what they are barking at.
And I do not like leg humpers.
Hmmmm ever notice how much you have in common with a Cesky
Regnad Kcin
March 20th, 2013
11:34 am
“So those who died during this war have elected/authorized USinUK to be their chairman of social consciousness?”
Your assertion that one must be “authorized” to express an opinion is rejected.
Doggone/GA
March 20th, 2013
11:34 am
“Well, there is a distinction between a “war”, an “armed conflict” and a “humanitarian intervention””
When was the last time you heard the “Iraqi war” referred to as the “Iraqi armed conflict” or the “Iraqi humanitarian intervertion”?
JamVet
March 20th, 2013
11:36 am
Holding grudges for such lengthy periods is really bad for you.
Republispeak for honestly and openly remembering the horrific cost of the “greatest foreign policy blunder since Viet Nam” (And yes, I know it was said in regard to the Iraq “surge”) is not good for his widdle fee fees…
captguitarman
March 20th, 2013
11:36 am
Typical Dem/Lib spin job. The facts are that the attack had backing from the administration and from a majority of Dem/Libs and Pub/Cons in House and the in the Senate. Were many of them reluctant supporters with strong trepidations? Yes, but in weighing all of the risks, the attack on Iraq and the tyrant, Saddam Hussein, was warranted. Based on the best intelligence we had at the time, and the continuing actions of Saddam, and the plausible risk of WMD’s in Iraq at the time, including chemical weapons, which he had already used on the Kurds (never, ever mentioned in these Dem/Lib, after the fact spin pieces), and later concerns that he was firing rockets into Israel with nerve gas war heads, it would not have been prudent (to quote the senior and wiser Bush) not to go in and make sure that this mad man did not possess nuclear or chemical weapons.
That said, there is no question that the whole thing went off the tracks after the fighting ended in a lopsided US military victory – a foregone conclusion from the start. From the day of the ridiculous, Bush jet fighter “fly in” and the stupid “Mission Accomplished” celebration, until now, the whole operation has been a waste of American lives and treasure. No argument there. Why? Because of a complete lack of planning by Bush, Cheny, Rummy, and Rovey, and the military top brass.
After the last Mission Accomplished speech, they all looked at each other and said, Now what? They had not a clue as to “what.” It is very unfortunate that Bush the younger did not have the wisdom of his father, and just bring every one home after we determined for certain that there were no WMD’s, and that he listened to Cheney and Rumsfeld, who enthusiastically led us into Vietnam redux. And because Bush allowed Cheney and Rummy to run the war that ensued on a shoe string budget, American lives were lost – until the surge took place and Rummy was fired.
American cannot and should not send the message to our enemies contained in this 10 year spin piece — don’t worry — we will never take miliatary action again. Just do your thing. The message needs to be that America will do what is necessary to protect its interests, and once that is done, it will be over. But that will destabilize regions the spinners cry. And that is different from the way it is today, how? Tyrants destabilize regions, not just action.
The shame of the Iraq war was not that it took place. It was for a noble purpose, it determined that there was no WMD threat, and it deposed a murderous tyrant. The shame was that we had not a clue what to do after victory. There was no plan except to just hang around an do “nation building” — which did not work in Vietnam and had even less chance of working in the Muslim culture. This is what Americans should demand never happen again. Not that we tell the tyrants of the world to do what you will, with no fear of American action.
St Simons
March 20th, 2013
11:36 am
and the weasel-ly-est of the weasel excuses – ‘mikey did it toooo..’
just cements what worthless weasels they are.
I hate them more, if that’s possible (it’s not)
and managed to wreck the world’s largest economy for the 2nd time
in 80 years while committing war crimes & treason.
and The Academy Award for F-Uppery of a Planet in a Sociopathic role
goes toooo – the Republican party.
If there truly was an Intergalactic Federation encompassing the
billions of planets in our galaxy. I believe they could win that
award at that level too.
Morality?
March 20th, 2013
11:36 am
11:29 BRING IT ON! Dixie Hicks were fake. That recent picture of Mutterin Maine looks more masculine than John Wayne…… what’s with her hair style? UGH!
skydog
March 20th, 2013
11:36 am
WHAT? Elton is in Macon tonight?
I have already purchased John Tesh tickets for tonight. Oh well, at least I got Yanni opening.
Oscar
March 20th, 2013
11:37 am
At least we are out of Iraq now and soon will be out of Afghanistan. Sooner the better. Had no business outting ground troops in either place.
Just don’t send troop to Syria.
USinUK ... no longer a rainy Friday, but still mildly cranky
March 20th, 2013
11:37 am
“So those who died during this war have elected/authorized USinUK to be their chairman of social consciousness? Keep on ranting and raving.”
yeah.
you’re right.
all the troops who died because of lies and fabrications are SO glad they did – would TOTALLY not hold a grudge for dying violently
and the children and young people whose lives were cut short would SO say, “hey, fuhgettaboutit … I didn’t really want to grow up and have a family / life / job, anyway”
Marty Huggins'
March 20th, 2013
11:37 am
Dunwoody Granny
March 20th, 2013
11:30 am
Well tell us all which mythical creature you wanted to appear?
Maybe someone here has a contact with Mr. Roarke????
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
March 20th, 2013
11:37 am
…you bed wetters want to… [...] …you bed wetters want…
Golden shower much?
Doggone/GA
March 20th, 2013
11:38 am
“would TOTALLY not hold a grudge for dying violently”
and for a lie
YouLibs
March 20th, 2013
11:38 am
Gah!
Ten years later and y’all are STILL blaming Bush for invading Iraq?
(Yes, I know that sarcasm is the lowest form of humor)
Scratch It
March 20th, 2013
11:39 am
USinUK … no longer a rainy Friday, but still mildly cranky
oh, and Scratch – you attributed the deaths in Afghanistan to Obama’s lack of engagement –
prove it.
Oh sure…
http://icasualties.org/
Marty Huggins'
March 20th, 2013
11:40 am
Doggone/GA
March 20th, 2013
11:34 am
Hey don’t blame me you are the one who wants things to only be used in their literal sense.
I’m just trying to be accurate and hold myself to your standard.
JamVet
March 20th, 2013
11:40 am
The facts are that the attack had backing from…a majority of Dem/Libs….
Good work.
A blatant, childish lie in the very first sentence.
I’ll leave it up to others to find those that follow, as I stopped right there…
Welcome to the Occupation
March 20th, 2013
11:40 am
td: “So who should be leading the world if not us? Please do not tell us some utopic vision that all nations should be equal or no nation should be the most powerful because that is nothing more then a BS fantasy. There has never been a time in the history of the world when the strongest, most powerful and most aggressive nation did not lead”
Please don’t think I’m calling you personally fascist when I say that that’s some nice proto-fascistic ideology you’re espousing there.
And it’s not that I disagree entirely with the notion that force and power are the world. What I am saying though is that we are members of a political community and a tradition where the belief in rule of law presumably holds ‘might is right’ in check. That’s sort of what World War II was fought over. Supposedly was fought for anyway.
Morality?
March 20th, 2013
11:41 am
11:36 – A little constructive advice here. Jay’s lemmings have an attention span of about TWO minutes and any blog taking longer than that to read will go right over their head,
Doggone/GA
March 20th, 2013
11:41 am
“I’m just trying to be accurate and hold myself to your standard.”
And trying to avoid answering my question, I noticed
Scratch It
March 20th, 2013
11:41 am
Jay you need to start writing about real news. Like obama releasing his final four picks instead of releasing his budget.
http://nation.foxnews.com/march-madness/2013/03/20/obama-releases-final-four-picks-not-his-budget
Regnad Kcin
March 20th, 2013
11:42 am
“That recent picture of Mutterin Maine looks more masculine than John Wayne…… what’s with her hair style? ”
Your virulent misogyny is noted.
Jerome Horwitz
March 20th, 2013
11:42 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7Y0ekr-3So
Appropriate for all wars where politicians have mislead us.
JamVet
March 20th, 2013
11:43 am
That little lady from Lubbock has ten times ten times the courage that Marxisity? has…
Dirty Dawg
March 20th, 2013
11:43 am
Had the public been allowed to know the depths of deceit, including outright treason, that the Republican Party had exhibited…from Nixon’s sabotage of Vietnam peace initiatives in ‘68, the real reason for the Watergate burglary, the undermining of the earlier release of the Embassy hostages, their true role and horrors of the Iran/Contra mess, to all the election/vote rigging…all in the name of getting and keeping power, not only would this Iraq thing never have happened, 9/11 would just be a date on the calendar and, in fact, the Country would never have voted for another Republican for anything, much less President. Hell, we’d probably even be energy independent by now with Global Climate Change clearly on the mend. These are things that we, finally, have verified evidence of…one day we’ll know the answers to more – like why did Building Seven collapse?
getalife
March 20th, 2013
11:43 am
I gave w a chance until he announced cutting and running from Afghanistan to occupy Iraq. I could never understand that decision and it made no sense. It went terribly wrong for w after that decision.
I was called unpatriotic, unamerican and a lot od other names because I dared to question the decision to occupy Iraq.
Now, the same people that called me those names are accusing our President of all kinds of lies.I learned these failed Americans are nothing but loud mouth blind partisan tools for the wealthy and the gop.
Thank God they are the fringe now and forever the minority because if they have power again, they would do it again.
dick cheney said so.
USinUK ... no longer a rainy Friday, but still mildly cranky
March 20th, 2013
11:44 am
Scratch –
and, again. where is proof of Obama’s lack of engagement
Dunwoody Granny
March 20th, 2013
11:44 am
Marty, all I’m saying is that while 90% might have supported the invasion, 10% did not. One person in 10 thought it was a bad idea. That’s a fair number of people. It’s not especially strange that a couple of dozen of us read this blog.
td
March 20th, 2013
11:44 am
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
March 20th, 2013
11:37 am
…you bed wetters want to… [...] …you bed wetters want…
Golden shower much?
Just as I thought you would rather make a smart ass comment instead of addressing the issue about who is going to lead if you think America should not lead.
Regnad Kcin
March 20th, 2013
11:45 am
“I have already purchased John Tesh tickets for tonight. Oh well, at least I got Yanni opening”
I’m with ya. Although his concert at Dodger Stadium in (was it?) 1975 ROCKED!
Mick
March 20th, 2013
11:45 am
td
Why do you think we needed bases in iraq? That’s what we have aircraft carriers for…
JamVet
March 20th, 2013
11:46 am
Well, well, well, looks like |tchy cc wants to move on. (dot org)
C’mon cc, tell me about how you’ve spent hours at the VA Hospital viewing and helping those who were the recipients of Mr. Bush’s and Cheney’s handiwork…
Morality?
March 20th, 2013
11:48 am
HERE’s my take on IRAQ and “W” . The Dems wanted to increase the unfunded and underfunded socialist social programs and “W” wanted the Iraq War supported and funded by Congress – so enough Dems voted for the war and enough Repubs voted for the spending and that is what you call C O M P R O M I S E. I’m not big on compromising my morals myself.
Regnad Kcin
March 20th, 2013
11:48 am
“Just as I thought you would rather make a smart ass comment instead of addressing the issue about who is going to lead if you think America should not lead”
…says the person who continuously talks about “bed-wetters!” (and the irony-meter swings into the red).
LOL
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
March 20th, 2013
11:48 am
I do not like not have small dogs.
You wanna translate from gibberish into English, sport?
Doggone/GA
March 20th, 2013
11:49 am
“addressing the issue about who is going to lead if you think America should not lead”
It’s not a good thing to “lead” a bad idea
Erwin's cat
March 20th, 2013
11:51 am
To take it a step further, if we hadn’t had l’affaire Lewinsky, Gore almost certainly would have won in 2000
Talk about the “butterfly effect” eh?
Not that I buy into this, but it makes for interesting naval contemplation:
If Bill had kept his pants up and Monica her mouth shut…9/11, Iran, and Afghanistan may not have happened…as well as the Arab Spring in Libya and Egypt followed by others…
I guess we can call it the BJ effect…. the lives and unsettled governments…all over/for a oral sex!
Matti
March 20th, 2013
11:52 am
I remember how ugly some people were to me because I dared to say,
“Hey… uh, wait a minute. Why is the President pulling troops out of Afghanistan to invade a country that didn’t attack us? That doesn’t seem right.”
UGLY. Because rational thought has no place in the hearts and minds of patriotic ‘muricans. To those of y’all to whom I’m referring, I’m torn. Should I: (A) Forgive you? or (B) Remind you to go *bleep* yourself? Please advise.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
March 20th, 2013
11:52 am
…instead of addressing the issue about who is going to lead if you think America should not lead.
No one can lead from a deceptive position.
Erwin's cat
March 20th, 2013
11:52 am
make that “Iraq” not “Iran”
southpaw
March 20th, 2013
11:52 am
Dixie Chicks SHEETZ
DannyX
March 20th, 2013
11:52 am
“Jay you need to start writing about real news. Like obama releasing his final four picks instead of releasing his budget.”
BENGHAZI!
getalife
March 20th, 2013
11:52 am
May God have no mercy on their cold dark souls.
Marty Huggins'
March 20th, 2013
11:52 am
Doggone/GA
March 20th, 2013
11:41 am
Awe it’s so cute to see you use the phrases people have said to you so many times…..
First I feel that the fuss is because it drastically contradicts his stance as for the constitutionality of when the Commander-In-Chief could use a military attack or force. As noted here….
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/robert-schlesinger/2011/03/22/is-obamas-war-on-libya-constitutional
I would also point to this as to an answer for the question and even uses the term humanitarian intervention.
They must have been thinking of you
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
March 20th, 2013
11:53 am
Dixie Chix SHEETZ!
Morality?
March 20th, 2013
11:53 am
Elton John is in The Music Hall of Fame.. . what have you contributed to society. I will wait – that shouldn’t take long.
td
March 20th, 2013
11:53 am
Welcome to the Occupation
March 20th, 2013
11:40 am
td: “So who should be leading the world if not us? Please do not tell us some utopic vision that all nations should be equal or no nation should be the most powerful because that is nothing more then a BS fantasy. There has never been a time in the history of the world when the strongest, most powerful and most aggressive nation did not lead”
Please don’t think I’m calling you personally fascist when I say that that’s some nice proto-fascistic ideology you’re espousing there.
And it’s not that I disagree entirely with the notion that force and power are the world. What I am saying though is that we are members of a political community and a tradition where the belief in rule of law presumably holds ‘might is right’ in check. That’s sort of what World War II was fought over. Supposedly was fought for anyway.
Sorry to inform you but it is not just the Fascist that believe in power and the UN would not even had become into formation unless the 5 strongest countries in the world had veto power over any lawful measure the other 200 odd counties wanted to pass.
As far as the “rule of law” in this nation. It has become obvious during the current administration that laws mean nothing any longer. Just look at Obama’s public refusal to enforce the immigrations laws, DOMA laws and the justice departments refusal to prosecute any voting rights cases when it is Whites involved or illegal gun applications.
TBS
March 20th, 2013
11:53 am
You can only laugh when the same blogger who talks about “bed wetters” was basically blogging from under his bed a few weeks ago as he blogged about the 7% (he didn’t know that number, ask him) of the US debt that China owns and their military from under his bed or a fallout shelter
bwhahahahahah
Bhorsoft
March 20th, 2013
11:53 am
My fear is we will repeat this again somewhere else in 30 or so years. When earning my MBA there was an observation made that corporate memory fades after about 30 years. Companies will then make similar mistakes that they had made a long time ago. I think the same can be true for government. I was about 35 years after the conclusion of Vietnam that we started the war in Iraq. Somewhat similar circumstances and very similar results.
Marty Huggins'
March 20th, 2013
11:53 am
http://www.academia.edu/576116/The_Libya_Humanitarian_Intervention_Is_it_Lawful_in_International_Law
Forgot to paste it.
And no Kamchak,
It was not anyone else’s fault it was all my own.
JamVet
March 20th, 2013
11:54 am
According to the poll used 90% or near 90% approval one week after troops feet hit the ground.
Marty, just curious why do feel compelled to make up stuff out of thin air?
Do you really adore GWB THAT much?
Days before the March 20 invasion, a USA TODAY/CNN/Gallup Poll found support for the war was related to UN approval. Nearly six in 10 said they were ready for such an invasion “in the next week or two.” But that support dropped off if the U.N. backing was not first obtained. If the U.N. Security Council were to reject a resolution paving the way for military action, 54% of Americans favored a U.S. invasion. And if the Bush administration did not seek a final Security Council vote, support for a war dropped to 47%.
An ABC News/Washington Post poll taken after the beginning of the war showed a 62% support for the war, lower than the 79% in favor at the beginning of the Persian Gulf War.
Perhaps you should consider being the next Republican president’s White House spokesman. (Presuming you live long enough !LOL!)
Scratch It
March 20th, 2013
11:54 am
Whats going on? I thought liberalism was the new wave in America. Ed “dense” Shultz and Roland ‘blame the white man” Martin have been sent packing.
southpaw
March 20th, 2013
11:55 am
tens of thousands of dead Iraqis and allied troops say “what?”
southpaw says “how do they do that?”
Morality?
March 20th, 2013
11:56 am
All you Obama Brain Dead Zombie Lemmings – HAVE A GOOD DAY! (smiley face patent applied for)
In the middle
March 20th, 2013
11:56 am
Looming on the horizon is Iran and Korea nuclear weapons, which are pretty real. Should we just be bystanders. What say all you fortune tellers, how will this go?
TBS
March 20th, 2013
11:58 am
“prosecute any voting rights cases when it is Whites involved”
Didn’t Holder successfully win against the state of OH? Is OH just made up of non whites?
Marty Huggins'
March 20th, 2013
11:58 am
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
March 20th, 2013
11:48 am
To my shock you didn’t read on.
To help you.
You remind me of a small dog.
You go all barking off at something but didnt take the time to even know what you were barking at.
Or as small dogs do just simply barking at the obvious.
Also you tend to be a little bit of a leg rapist here, tending to just latch on and hump away with posters you think you disagree with.
And just like small dogs I don’t like you both for the things you have in common personality wise.
TBS
March 20th, 2013
11:58 am
TC
Come on “out”………… It is ok buddy.
JamVet
March 20th, 2013
11:58 am
Should we just be bystanders. What say all you fortune tellers, how will this go?
Hell no.
I say we take all of the neocons in the 101st Chairborne and air drop them off over there to fix that problem!
And since Bill O’Reilly has experiences in firefights, he can lead the charge…
Doggone/GA
March 20th, 2013
11:59 am
“Looming on the horizon is Iran and Korea nuclear weapons”
North Korea isn’t “looming”…their nuclear capacity exists.
Scratch It
March 20th, 2013
12:00 pm
USinUK … no longer a rainy Friday, but still mildly cranky
Scratch –
and, again. where is proof of Obama’s lack of engagement
Well if stats aren’t good enough I guess I could come up with pics.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/02/17/obama-plays-golf-in-florida-with-tiger-woods/
http://deadspin.com/5984904/tiger-woods-and-president-obama-play-golf-together-constitute-nightmare-scenario-for-old-white-dudes
http://caffertyfile.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06/06/do-politicians-who-hang-out-with-celebrities-help-or-hurt-themselves/
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/onpolitics/post/2012/04/barack-obama-celebrity-president-american-crossroads-/1
barking frog
March 20th, 2013
12:00 pm
Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, and all the little invasions
in between, the same proponents and opponents, both getting
their egos stroked by teenagers fighting and dying under the
flag of patriotism while the greedy rake in the dollars of death
commercialized, and sleep in the irrational belief that the people
are in control of the country. Forward to Mission Accomplished.
JamVet
March 20th, 2013
12:02 pm
The thing about neocons is that the LEVEL of their lies is so amazing.
Any intelligent person would look at Marty’s idiotic claim about 90% of Americans first supporting the botched invasion and laugh their arses off. Seriously.
But these Bushbots?
They are so used to f&cking up everything that they touch — even statistics and definitions – that to them, it doesn’t even raise the first eyebrow.
Mental midgetry abounds…
Marty Huggins'
March 20th, 2013
12:03 pm
JamVet
March 20th, 2013
11:54 am
I apologize the link I was referencing was the one I posted earlier and it was in regards to Bush’s approval.
Guess you didn’t look at the link.
Why do you feel the need to assume to know who I support.
I didn’t vote for the guy! Why would I defend him now?
To back and read the post to see my point you are obviously not worth the time to explain myself to you.
Too much bitterness and ignorance to make a difference anyway
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
March 20th, 2013
12:03 pm
To help you.
Bored now.
In the middle
March 20th, 2013
12:04 pm
Jamvet – No fair being sarcastic. Here is a chance to stake your ground. Do we invade, do we wait until after a nuke goes off, do we do nothing regardless of the threat?.
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
March 20th, 2013
12:04 pm
mick: . The reality of how my fellow americans could be so easily manipulated was the scariest impact, it was and still is a sad chapter in our history…
Fear is a great motivator and betrayer. If anyone other than a few really wanted to look deeper they could have, they chose NOT to. They chose to believe the lie because they were scared of the truth. And the truth, simply was that Dubya just WANTED to invade Iraq; because Saddam tried to kill his Daddy.
We can look at this as if its an isolated incident, however judging by the groupthink that’s going on now, (see comments from ucmj, Rb from Gwinn, etc.); AND by the fiasco going on over the voter’s rights in Dekalb County, (school board issue), FEAR is the main motivator of groupthink.
Just tell someone, “If you/we don’t do this NOW, then (a) (b) and/or (c) MAY happen!!!!” Whip them into a frenzy, throw out a few of the keywords like, “terror” or “can’t fail” and then sit back and watch the destruction of America and individual liberties compliments of a little fear.
To paraphrase Herr Goebbel ” “It is not Fear’s task to be intelligent, its task is to lead to success.
Education defeats fear every time.
The real struggle is not between East and West, or capitalism and communism, but between education and propaganda.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
March 20th, 2013
12:08 pm
Can we please please get a new topic before this bunch forms a lynch mob and heads out to Texas and then to S. Dakota and on to California? I ain’t seen so much anger since Billy Bob run out of beer on the 4th of July.
Regnad Kcin
March 20th, 2013
12:11 pm
“Well if stats aren’t good enough I guess I could come up with pics”
…and scratchy triples-down on silly. Do you ever wonder why other’s don’t take you seriously?
You know, you might actually have some success with your arguments if you leave out the obviously silly stuff…