An unrepentent Dick Cheney, 10 years after
“I did what I did,” Dick Cheney says in a documentary to be shown Friday night on Showtime, “and it’s all part of the public record and I feel very good about it. If I had it to do over again, I’d do it in a minute.”
History, however, will register a much different verdict. It will record that while Cheney won the battle, he lost the wars, both foreign and domestic, with consequences that continue to reverberate and may do so for decades to come.
Yes, in the wake of the attacks of Sept. 11, Cheney was able to maneuver a pliable, inexperienced and maybe somewhat frightened president into an unnecessary invasion of Iraq, an act of war that had nothing whatsoever to do with the terrorist attacks that inspired it. That war, which began 10 years ago next week, led to the deaths of more than 4,000 American soldiers, the psychic and physical wounding of tens of thousands more and the expenditure of well over a trillion dollars, and for what?
Saddam Hussein is gone. But today, Iraq is all but a client state of neighboring Iran, and has been assisting Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad in his effort to remain in power. Despite our investment of blood and treasure, we have little or no influence over Iraq’s policies or practices, and American oil companies have been largely shut out.
And as Amnesty International reports:
“Ten years after the US-led invasion that toppled the brutal dictatorship of Saddam Hussein, Iraq remains mired in human rights abuses. Thousands of Iraqis are detained without trial or serving prison sentences imposed after unfair trials, torture remains rife and continues to be committed with impunity, and the new Iraq is one of the world’s leading executioners.”
By insisting on fighting on two fronts at once, both in Iraq and Afghanistan, thus dividing our manpower, financial resources and attention, Cheney also helped to ensure that we achieved real victory in neither. We will never know whether a full commitment to Afghanistan in the early years would have paid off with success; we know only that the odds of ultimate success having followed the path we did are very long.
The third war that Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz and others lost was right here at home. The invasion of Iraq was to mark the return of a muscular and militaristic foreign policy, freed of the constraints once placed upon it by the now collapsed Soviet Union. Those regimes, such as Saddam’s Iraq, that did not do our bidding would be subject to removal, and a Pax Americana, like the Pax Romana of the Roman empire, would be imposed upon the world.
That was the theory. In practice, the invasion of Iraq, driven by false promises of easy conquest and false threats of WMD, yellowcake, mushroom clouds and unmanned aerial vehicles, exposed the strategic overreach and arrogance implicit in such a policy. By his second term, a chastened President Bush had largely pushed Cheney aside, but that recognition of his vice president’s malignant influence came too late to save his presidency, or more importantly to extract his country from the consequences of his mistakes.
Today, the neocon ambitions of Cheney and his friends have been discredited. The lessons of Vietnam have been refreshed rather than overturned, and support is growing even within the Republican Party for a less expensive military and a more circumspect use of force overseas. The remaining advocates of a Cheney-esque foreign policy — men such as John McCain and William Kristol — are left to stamp their feet in frustration.
Cheney may indeed do it all over again if given the chance. But having learned the hard way, the American people are no longer willing to give him and others like him that opportunity.
– Jay Bookman
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
459 comments Add your comment
Welcome to the Occupation
March 13th, 2013
9:16 pm
Nice screed, kayaker 71.
Just one thing I noticed in it though. You cite a litany of names and bang on and on about “liberals”. But every single one of the names are Democrats.
Odd, don’t ya think?
Why would you only focus on “liberals” in one party and not those in the other, too? I mean, if you’re so disgusted by them. Why limit yourself to just one party?
Orange13
March 13th, 2013
9:19 pm
It’s gotten so bad lately that every time I hear Obama make a speech I have to say “The Lords Prayer”. Maybe I should say it before he speaks. It might be more effective.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
March 13th, 2013
9:19 pm
Recon, are you directing 2 linked articles that do not support your claim that you were quoting the President (the moved goalposts) rather than just admitting that you either were NOT quoting the President or you did not know that the budget deficits have been shrinking not growing each year. Surely you are not going to run and hide from addressing your challenge directly that I prove you wrong.
USA Patriot
March 13th, 2013
9:19 pm
kayaker 71
9:11 pm
Right on, right on, right on! Very well put!
Jackie
March 13th, 2013
9:19 pm
Dick Cheney is one of the most contemptible men in modern-American history.
JamVet
March 13th, 2013
9:24 pm
Jackie, a whole bunch of Americans agree…
December 22, 2008
WASHINGTON (CNN) — A new national poll suggests that almost a quarter of Americans think that Dick Cheney is the worst vice president in American history.
Twenty-three percent of those questioned in a CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey released Monday say that Cheney is the country’s worst vice president, when compared with his predecessors.
An additional 41 percent feel that Cheney is a poor vice president.
guy
March 13th, 2013
9:24 pm
We will get by 3-27 for sure,God forbid.
USA Patriot
March 13th, 2013
9:25 pm
This is hysterical, the Bookman comes up with Cheney? Really, the guy is irrelevant in politics, but comes out in some effing interview and the blog goes berserk? Yea, Cheney is relevant how?
But BO has nothing to do with running the country for the last 4 1/2 years? Typical deflection, BO – “I” didn’t have anything to do with this effing countries problems, “I” inherited these problems, yep, just like school on Sunday, no class. All form, no substance whatsoever!
moonbat betty
March 13th, 2013
9:25 pm
most “contemptible”?
MOST? MOST?
That Dick sure is a Dick, huh?
Jackie
March 13th, 2013
9:26 pm
@moonbat
YES, HE IS!!
kayaker 71
March 13th, 2013
9:27 pm
Welcome, 9:16,
The whole focus of Bookman’s thread is based on the fact that Cheney is a Republican dope who led us in a horrible direction because of his support of the Iraq war. Bookman, as usual, conveniently ignores all of the liberals who voted to go to war and voiced support for the very person that he trying very hard to demonize. Seems like that poses a problem. He also ignores the fact that the Vietnam fiasco, of which I have a little more than casual knowledge, was initiated by the lackluster JFK and some Texas liberal called LBJ. It took a Republican Sec of State and a Republican president to end that cluster. Bookman points fingers at the wrong people.
USA Patriot
March 13th, 2013
9:28 pm
And someone comes up with a poll from 5 years ago to support its claim. And the relevance is what?
Jackie
March 13th, 2013
9:28 pm
@JamVet
Regardless of who does the sampling and the region(s) that are sampled, Dick Cheney wears his crown of thorns proudly.
moonbat betty
March 13th, 2013
9:29 pm
Jackie,
Sad thing is, Biden has the brain power of .25 Cheney.
Gore has ~ .10
JamVet
March 13th, 2013
9:30 pm
Jackie, they should have made that sanctimonious sh*t-for-brains unload every single one of those flag draped caskets that came home to Dover AFB.
Nah, never mind.
He was suck an f up, he would have dropped and/or lost a few…
Recon 0311 2533
March 13th, 2013
9:30 pm
Surely you are not going to run and hide from addressing your challenge directly that I prove you wrong.
You haven’t proven anyone wrong, you’ve only been proving yourself stupid.
Jackie
March 13th, 2013
9:31 pm
The relevance to anything that comes out about Dick Cheney is his callous disregard for the deaths of more than 4,000 American troops in Iraq and more than $1 Trillion dollars in national treasure.
No poll is needed to measure that.
Liberal Pariah
March 13th, 2013
9:32 pm
Maybe Cheney should launch a Charm Offensive to get Liberals on his side…just sayin’
moonbat betty
March 13th, 2013
9:32 pm
“Jackie, they should have made that sanctimonious sh*t-for-brains unload every single one of those flag draped caskets that came home to Dover AFB.”
That’s no way to talk to your commander in chief, JamVet!
Jackie
March 13th, 2013
9:32 pm
@moonbat
You have your opinion, which only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
March 13th, 2013
9:33 pm
Well, now that Matti’s sort of apologized, I feel kinda bad about calling Cheney a Richardhead.
So I’ll just say he’s a Dick.
Anyhow, the air’s kinda stuffy here where the TV is and Ace
is reminding me of a broken sewerhas a little indigestion. So I’ll say goodnight and promise not to tell you what I really think ofRichardheadDick Cheney.Jackie
March 13th, 2013
9:34 pm
@JamVet
He would not appear at Dover because it would remind everyone of who was one of the major architects of the carnage that cost the Iraq’s more than 100,000 deaths.
Recon 0311 2533
March 13th, 2013
9:34 pm
I don’t know about most Americans thinking Chaney’s the worst V.P. but I’ll bet that most Americans think Biden is the most asinine V.P.
Jackie
March 13th, 2013
9:36 pm
Dick Cheney does not need to launch another offensive as this may result in another military incursion into another country.
Better yet, he will move the charter to his company, Haliburton, to Dubai.
moonbat betty
March 13th, 2013
9:37 pm
“He would not appear at Dover”
Cheney or Obama?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
March 13th, 2013
9:38 pm
[Quote Recon attributes to Obama]:He says that the rapidly growing deficit is sustainable over the next ten years
keep, no offense intended but do you not keep of with current news events? Obama made that statement to George Staphacocolis in a recent ABC exclusive interview. Good grief you must really be sheltered from reality.
Golly Recon, I provided you a link to the actual transcript and yet you want to call me stupid.
It’s a single webpage and the deficit talk is only the top 1/3 before they move on to North Korea. Still you can’t back up your claim that you were quoting the President?
Really, after all your chest thumping time and time again, you just cannot admit you were wrong. You were not quoting the President and the budget deficit has been shrinking over the past 4 years as I claim and supported.
You clucking like a chicken will not prove you right. You have a chance to put up or shut up. I guess you better be shutting up.
Jackie
March 13th, 2013
9:38 pm
Wonder if the money spent in Iraq, that was not budgeted by the Congress, had anything to do with the hue-and-cry for a balanced budget from the so-called conservatives?
JamVet
March 13th, 2013
9:39 pm
When Vice President Dick Cheney left office, his approval rating stood at a staggeringly low 13 percent. Few political figures in history have been so reviled.
The man should be in an 8 x 12 cell…
(1) During the several months preceding the March 2003 invasion of Iraq, and thereafter, the vice president became aware that no certain evidence existed of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, a fact articulated in several official documents, including: (a) A report by the Pentagon’s Defense Intelligence Agency, concluding that “there is no reliable information on whether Iraq is producing and stockpiling chemical weapons, or where Iraq has–or will–establish its chemical warfare agent production facilities.” (b) A National Intelligence Estimate, compiled by the nation’s intelligence agencies, admitting to “little specific information” about chemical weapons in Iraq. (c) A later section of the same NIE, admitting “low confidence” that Saddam Hussein “would engage in clandestine attacks against the U.S. Homeland,” and equally “low confidence” that he would “share chemical or biological weapons with al-Qa’ida.”
(2) Despite these questions and uncertainties, and having full awareness of them, the vice president nevertheless proceeded to misrepresent the facts in his public statements, claiming that there was no doubt about the existence of chemical and biological weapons in Iraq and that a full-scale nuclear program was known to exist, including: (a) March 17, 2002: “We know they have biological and chemical weapons.” (b) March 19, 2002: “We know they are pursuing nuclear weapons.” (c) March 24, 2002: “He is actively pursuing nuclear weapons.” (d) May 19, 2002: “We know he’s got chemical and biological…we know he’s working on nuclear.” (e) August 26, 2002: “We now know that Saddam has resumed his efforts to acquire nuclear weapons… Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. There is no doubt that he is amassing them to use against our friends, against our allies, and against us.” (f) March 16, 2003: “We believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons.”
Jackie
March 13th, 2013
9:40 pm
@moonbat
Cheney would not appear at Dover; nice try at deflection.
moonbat betty
March 13th, 2013
9:42 pm
Sheesh.
Ya’ll gettin all serious. lol
kayaker 71
March 13th, 2013
9:44 pm
Jackie,
“The callous disregard for 4,000 American who lost their lives in Iraq”….. baby, that doesn’t hold a candle to the 57,000 plus Americans who lost their lives and the thousands more who will never lead a normal life again. Bookman takes delight in pointing fingers at Republicans but conveniently ignores things like a liberal led Vietnam war, McNamara included. Robert McNamara was much worse than Cheney ever thought about being. So was LBJ and for that matter JFK. Kennedy had some pie in the sky notion that Special Forces teams could lead the South to victory but soon learned that the opposition was more than just a few people could handle. Then it got worse…. and worse….. and worse….. and worse. We were bogged down in a nearly 16 year effort that led to nowhere. No one says much about that, do they? Hell, it happened nearly 40 years ago and who cares who led the charge to get us there? I would imagine that those 57,000 plus names on that black wall that sits right below the Lincoln Memorial care….. they and their families care a lot.
Recon 0311 2533
March 13th, 2013
9:44 pm
You clucking like a chicken will not prove you right. You have a chance to put up or shut up. I guess you better be shutting up.
Keep, I read your links and they didn’t support your posted points and in fact they refuted them. I posted links that supported my contention. You’ll have to do better than bull shyte with me.
Cloudodust
March 13th, 2013
9:46 pm
A gutless ruling class that deems war a gentleman’s folly has, and continues to hamstring this nation. When a Marine or Soldier has to account for each round fired against an aggressor, we gots problems…and please, don’t give me the PC response. It’s fruitless.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
March 13th, 2013
9:47 pm
JamVet
March 13th, 2013
9:48 pm
Again, the biggest take away from those deadly years is that the worst VP in modern American history has helped sink the GOP’s present-day fortunes.
I said when they left office that it would take the Republicans twenty years to recover.
The neoconservatives killed American conservatism. And are now themselves mortally wounded as they are hoisted on their own perverted petard.
For that, I am thankful…
USA Patriot
March 13th, 2013
9:49 pm
Cloud, right on, right on, right on!
Recon 0311 2533
March 13th, 2013
9:50 pm
Keep up the poor fight, I did post his remarks…evidently you’ve failed to follow but that’s typical.
Welcome to the Occupation
March 13th, 2013
9:51 pm
kayaker: “kman, as usual, conveniently ignores all of the liberals who voted to go to war and voiced support for the very person that he trying very hard to demonize”
I see. Well. no argument here on that point.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
March 13th, 2013
9:54 pm
Again, Recon….. you did not. Your failure to post a link supporting your claim of quote or to identify the quote in the transcript of the interview you identified as its source proves you absolutely wrong. Continued denial is just clucking. Name calling is cowardly when you cannot prove your claim. Cowardly.
Recon 0311 2533
March 13th, 2013
9:54 pm
We now have Kim Jong Un on his petard, so the blog has gone all of its way to stupid. Taps y’all
Jackie
March 13th, 2013
9:54 pm
@kayaker
Like you, I am a Viet Nam vet.
First, you contention about John Kennedy starting the war is pure nonsense.
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/first-american-soldier-killed-in-vietnam
Robert McNamara was Secretary of Defense who tried to use business skills to manage the war in Viet Nam. It did not work. Given that fact, he was not the person that can ever be accused working for or advocating a war for his own personal profit.
Third, remember Richard Nixon? Under his presidency, more soldiers were killed during his term than at any other time, even though he pledged to remove us from the war. It is documented that he negotiated with the North Viet Nam to keep the fighting to a minimum during the campaign season so that he could win the election.
http://consortiumnews.com/2012/06/14/admissions-on-nixons-treason/
Wonder how all these things happened and you were not aware?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
March 13th, 2013
9:56 pm
When the going gets tough, Recon runs away.
td
March 13th, 2013
9:59 pm
Chaney and Bush were 100% right to go into Iraq and Afghanistan. Saddam had been a jackbooted thug that had WMD’s (because we sold him them) and had made Clinton (and American) look weak for 8 years by thumbing his nose at the cease fire he had signed.
The problem with the progressives is and the neo cons is that we are not following the policies as set forth by Sherman during the war of Yankee aggression. If you are going to fight a war then it is a total war and you do not stop the carnage until the other side is begging you to stop. You must break their will to fight. If we would have treated Iraq in that matter then Iran, NK and anyone else we threaten would be scared to death right now and we would not have the problems we do now.
Vast Right Wing Conspiracy (aka "Knuckle-Dragger")
March 13th, 2013
10:01 pm
So the next time somebody kills a few thousand of our fellow citizens, we should invite them to gather for milk and cookies while we figure out how to blame America? The only tough decision you democrats make is what tax to increase next.
The only guy that needs to repent is president food stamps.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
March 13th, 2013
10:03 pm
“The lessons of Vietnam have been refreshed rather than overturned …. ”
And who has repented for the 58,000+ names on the wall ???
JamVet
March 13th, 2013
10:04 pm
td and knuckles, then why weren’t you two there?
td
March 13th, 2013
10:04 pm
JamVet
March 13th, 2013
9:48 pm
Bogus statement. The only problem the Neo Cons did was to fight a war to limit civilians casualties and not offend the Muslims. They should have blown Iraq back into the stone age the minute the Muslims started their little internal struggle.
Jackie
March 13th, 2013
10:06 pm
@td
Ask yourself, who was the last person you saw on TV speaking with Saddam?
Who was the President/family that had a personal relationship with Saddam?
Who was in the middle of Iraq-gate?
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
March 13th, 2013
10:08 pm
A Canadian’s Version of David Letterman’s Top 10
10) Only in America…could politicians talk about the greed of the
rich at a $35,000.00 a plate campaign fund-raising event.
9) Only in America…could people claim that the government still
discriminates against black Americans when they have a black President, a
black Attorney General, and roughly 18% of the federal workforce is black
while only 12% of the population is black.
responsible for our tax code, Timothy Geithner (the head of the Treasury
Department) and
Charles Rangel (who once ran the Ways and Means Committee), BOTH turn
out to be tax cheats who are in favor of higher taxes.
7) Only in America…can they have terrorists kill people in the name of
Allah and have the media primarily react by fretting that Muslims might be
harmed by the backlash.
6) Only in America…would they make people who want to legally become
American citizens wait for years in their home countries and pay tens of
thousands of dollars for the privilege, while they discuss letting
anyone who sneaks into the country illegally just ‘magically’ become American
citizens.
5) Only in America…could the people who believe in balancing the
budget and sticking by the country’s Constitution be thought of as “extremists.”
4) Only in America…could you need to present a driver’s license to
cash a check or buy alcohol, but not to vote.
3) Only in America…could people demand the government investigate
whether oil companies are gouging the public because the price of gas went
up when
the return on equity invested in a major U.S. oil company ( Marathon Oil) is
less than half of a company making tennis shoes (Nike).
2) Only in America…could the government collect more tax dollars from
the people than any nation in recorded history, still spend a Trillion
dollars
more than it has per year – for total spending of $7-Million PER MINUTE,
and complain that it doesn’t have nearly enough money.
1) Only in America…could the rich people – who pay 86% of all income
taxes – be accused of not paying their “fair share” by people who don’t pay
any
income taxes at all.
td
March 13th, 2013
10:10 pm
Jackie
March 13th, 2013
10:06 pm
And what does that have to do with the way we should fight any war that we get involved in? I think it was Colin Powell that said (paraphase) If you are going to fight then fight to win.
Jackie
March 13th, 2013
10:10 pm
@Vast
Can you say who it was that killed “a few thousand Americans?”
Jackie
March 13th, 2013
10:13 pm
@td
How it is relevant is that the USA had no cause to attack Iraq. What can you point out that shows they committed an act of war against us?
You are right to say, when we go to war, we ALWAYS go to win. Still does not explain why were were involved in that war.
willie lynch
March 13th, 2013
10:16 pm
Cheney should be tried for war crimes committed against the American people. Man will lose nothing when he’s gone.
JamVet
March 13th, 2013
10:20 pm
I’ll sign off with the same observation that millions of Americans have made over the past ten years – Dick Cheney is a coward, an unindicted criminal and a disgrace to this great country.
And if this film helps people remember that, I am all for it.
td
March 13th, 2013
10:21 pm
Jackie
March 13th, 2013
10:13 pm
@td
How it is relevant is that the USA had no cause to attack Iraq. What can you point out that shows they committed an act of war against us?
You are right to say, when we go to war, we ALWAYS go to win. Still does not explain why were were involved in that war.
Let us not even talk about breaking a ceasefire agreement, massing WMD’s, breaking UN orders, threatening our only true allies in the region.
How about just go with protecting the economic life blood of our nation. The free flow of oil. Good enough reason for me.
BSNBC
March 13th, 2013
10:21 pm
An unrepentent Bill Clinton!
Welcome to the Occupation
March 13th, 2013
10:22 pm
Here’s a video of a squad who survive an IED blast in Iraq, circa 2005:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B96MCM-cloQ
G Mare
March 13th, 2013
10:22 pm
I could certainly be wrong, but I seem to remember that President Obama did go to Dover AFB. I know the Secretary Clinton did.
Josef, thanks for the greeting earlier.
So did anybody watch the Ed Show tonight?
td
March 13th, 2013
10:24 pm
JamVet
March 13th, 2013
10:20 pm
“I’ll sign off with the same observation that millions of Americans have made over the past ten years ”
Those millions of people that do not have a freaking clue and the same people that voted Obama into office. Yea, those are the people that I am going to trust their OPINION.
Jackie
March 13th, 2013
10:29 pm
@td
If you can find the time, please show us where Saddam Hussein broke a cease-fire agreement?
When was it proven that he had weapons of mass destruction (nuclear)?
Are you saying the UN has world control in that they can order a sovereign country to act in a certain way?
If you recall, our ally in the Middle East, Israel, is the one that attacked Iraq. They further tried to undermine his country an the region because Iraq offered the Palestinians the same $35,000 Israel gave to emigres from other countries to settle in the West Bank.
I will be willing to wager that 60% of the world’s oil flows through the Straits of Hormuz. Iraq does not have control of that choke point.
Jackie
March 13th, 2013
10:33 pm
@G Mare
I seem to recall that President Bush would not allow cameras to photograph the ceremonies at Dover.
appleseed
March 13th, 2013
10:37 pm
Baby Bush is a natural born artist.Think he is best at drawing flies.
st simons
March 13th, 2013
10:39 pm
let’s be clear – a lot of oil comes through the port here, and I do a lot of
accounting here.
Baath Party (Saddam) – Ba’ath = socialist, like Hugo Chavez
let’s be clear, this was about zero contract oil, and this godforsaken
demon & his dumb assistant Little Nero w/a Cowboy Hat were
willing to kill 4,500 American kids and 200,000 Iraqis to get it for
their buddies.
Let’s call it what it is, one of the most heinous sociopathic deals
with satan in modern history. In a just world, both should hang high.
And you fellow travelers that vote for Them have that on your hands, too.
It would be too much of a stretch to say ‘conscience.’
Alex
March 13th, 2013
10:46 pm
@Jackie, you absolutely need to read “the best and the Brightest”, it’s a long book and will be much more nuanced than a couple of web sites, just because you were in the war has NO impact on the how it was started or your knowledge of how the war started…
Columbo
March 13th, 2013
10:49 pm
“just because you were in the war has NO impact on the how it was started or your knowledge of how the war started…”
Just because you read a book and watched a few documentaries doesn’t give you all the insight either.
getalife
March 13th, 2013
10:50 pm
alex,
I know exactly how the Iraq occupation started.
Lies that slaughtered 1 million Iraqis.
Own it.
They are still getting blown up.
vinnie
March 13th, 2013
10:51 pm
Welcome to the website blog.
Let the bedwetting begin!
Jackie
March 13th, 2013
10:51 pm
@Alex
Thank you for the information. I will read the book and combine it with some of my other readings.
I think you should take into account that those web sites cited are not the only information that I have available about Viet Nam, as you seem to imply.
Because I was there means nothing more than I was there. However, my research has shown the implication of the war has a lot to do with our “obligations” we had with our NATO ally France.
Think about Dien Bien Phu and the impact that French colonialism had on the world order?
Again, do more research and I will not hold it against you that you were not there to lend your support.
Columbo
March 13th, 2013
10:53 pm
“Let the bedwetting begin!”
Guess you have your depends on tonight
G Mare
March 13th, 2013
10:54 pm
Yes, Jackie, I remember that. Mr. Bush & Mr. Cheney did not want us to see the havoc they ha wrought.
And I concur with the poster(s) who said that the two of them should be tried as war criminals. Not only that, they will go down in history as the worst president & vp EVER.
Jackie
March 13th, 2013
10:54 pm
@Alex
Here is a good reading about why the the author believes the war started.
http://www.english.illinois.edu/maps/vietnam/causes.htm
getalife
March 13th, 2013
10:55 pm
vinnie,
Wear depends old man and stop leaking on the blog.
Jackie
March 13th, 2013
10:56 pm
@G Mare
I am of the opinion that Mr. Cheney and former President do not travel outside the USA because they are so reviled in the rest of the world.
Jackie
March 13th, 2013
11:01 pm
@Alex
You didn’t throw the rock and hide your hand, did you?
Chris
March 13th, 2013
11:02 pm
Funny… You said inexperienced and frightened President. I thought the same thing when the current Junior Senator/Community Organizer took office. Into his second term, he’s still blaming his predecessor. Talk about inexperienced and frightened…
getalife
March 13th, 2013
11:05 pm
chris,
obl is dead.
getalife
March 13th, 2013
11:07 pm
President Obama won his war.
Alex
March 13th, 2013
11:10 pm
Jackie, you are condescending and ignorant, a brutal combination that I have noted in you for many of your “contributions”, you are most adept at changing the conversation, “world order’. I’ve recognized your “research” on subjects, and your knowledge is overwhelmed by your confidence in your own opinion. Classic:”you only see what is there”…. Read S. Karnow also. I don’t pretend to know the cause of the Vietnam war, but it cannot be distilled into management decisions ..
@getalife, what are you babbling about now to me? Goodness.
Alex
March 13th, 2013
11:13 pm
Rocks, Rocks, goodnight dear rocks.Thanks for the reference dear rocks, ….Ouch
Welcome to the Occupation
March 13th, 2013
11:16 pm
The United States of America. Toppler of Allende, installer of the blood-thirsty thug Pinochet, a pattern that was repeated dozens of times in places around the globe.
Yep, a thug like Dick Cheney fit right in.
Chris
March 13th, 2013
11:17 pm
getalife – (and you should)
If Obama were in office in 2001, troops wouldn’t be in the Middle East looking for UBL. If it weren’t for those detained before Obama took office, the military and CIA wouldn’t have had the intel to find UBL’s location. If Obama were in office in 2001, he would be apologizing for making people mad enough for killing people on our soil.
Obama did nothing, except nod yes when he was advised that we had enough intel to take action. To give him credit for winning “his” war is ridiculous. This has been in the works for many years.
Alex
March 13th, 2013
11:18 pm
Seriously Jackie:how the Vietnam war started in 500 words or less..what is this poly sic 101? Can we have a serious conversation or not? Anyway goodnight, my “rock” is warm…
Jackie
March 13th, 2013
11:20 pm
@Alex
I would give that same condescending, ignorant retort to you, but, you do not rise to that level.
My confidence in my “research” is supported by verifiable information that you should work hard to refute.
I do contend that my knowledge is only overwhelmed by the fact that there is so much knowledge out there that one must be diligent in the maintenance of current levels of information.
It does appear that your stated positions are very rarely supported by documented information, which leads one to believe that “you are making crap up!!!!!!!!!!!”
Of course you do not know what caused the Vietnam war, neither does anyone else, for that matter. But historians and scholars have worked to find clues as to why events occurred.
Given all of the above, you are free to knock down any of the items that you feel that overwhelmed my knowledge and point out my vapid “contributions.”
Wish I could say something more positive.
L!beral Nightm@re
March 13th, 2013
11:25 pm
Today I had to go to Wal-Mart.
As I approached the entrance, I noticed a driver looking for a parking space.
I flagged the driver and pointed out a handicap parking space that was open and available.
The driver looked puzzled, rolled down her window and said, “I’m not handicapped!”
Well, as you can imagine, my face was red!
“Oh, I’m sorry” I said. “I saw your Obama bumper sticker and just assumed that you suffer from a mental disorder.”
She gave me the finger and screamed some nasty names at me.
Boy! Some people don’t appreciate it when you’re just trying to help them out!
Jackie
March 13th, 2013
11:25 pm
@Alex
Anytime you feel you have the time to debate the subject of your choice, feel free to “bring it on!”
Soothsayer
March 13th, 2013
11:29 pm
So you want to be an airline pilot, do you? Take a look at this!
G Mare
March 13th, 2013
11:31 pm
Jackie, I can’t site “chapter & verse,” but I think you are right. As for you who would argue with me: hey, it’s late. I’ll google it tomorrow. Or you can & get back to me.
Jackie, I have been off the blog for a few months due to surgery. I think you have more recently joined the ‘discussion’. So I will tell you a little about me & hope you will do the same. All here know that I am a 72-yr-old grandmother of 7, retired, English major, politics junkie, über liberal, & a formerly active of member of NOW. You?
Jackie
March 13th, 2013
11:36 pm
@G Mare
Hope your surgery went well and your helth condition is better.
I have been on this blog for years, but, not consistently since I work and take MBA classes.
I am a 65 year old liberal with 5 grandchildren.
The only active membership that I have is with the Veterans of Foreign Wars. Otherwise, just a student of the world and life.
G Mare
March 13th, 2013
11:36 pm
Oh, should also mention that I am an avid player of ‘words with friends’- an iPad version of Scrabble – the game that got Alec Baldwin booted from a flight, and I am a night person.
pete
March 13th, 2013
11:44 pm
“Yes, in the wake of the attacks of Sept. 11, Cheney was able to maneuver a pliable, inexperienced and maybe somewhat frightened president into an unnecessary invasion of Iraq, an act of war that had nothing whatsoever to do with the terrorist attacks that inspired it. That war, which began 10 years ago next week, led to the deaths of more than 4,000 American soldiers, the psychic and physical wounding of tens of thousands more and the expenditure of well over a trillion dollars, and for what?”
Hmmm…lets see. One is a former Vice President of the United States. The other is an opinion writer for a liberal fish wrapper. Sounds like someone is still bitter.
getalife
March 13th, 2013
11:47 pm
cons like chris crack me up:
The buck stops with the President.
President Obama gets the credit.
Anyhoo, you cons have a crazy problem.
You need to work on that.
Welcome to the Occupation
March 13th, 2013
11:56 pm
pete: “Hmmm…lets see. One is a former Vice President of the United States. The other is an opinion writer for a liberal fish wrapper”
Power worship much?
G Mare
March 14th, 2013
1:01 am
Thanks for the reply, Jackie, & thank you for your service to our country, & congrats re the 5 grands. They are our blessings & our continuence (thanks to Erma Bombeck for that).
I guess that you were on when I was off & vice versa. Glad we have connected & hope we will continue.
Okay, I am out. Good night to all, except for some of y’all who, despite all of the polls & election results, JUST DON’t GET IT!
Oh, okay, good night to you, too.
gadawg
March 14th, 2013
1:48 am
just think how much we could hve done here at home with those billions wasted. i think he should be tried for war crimes
Fred ™
March 14th, 2013
5:48 am
I think it’s time for a new page
Fred ™
March 14th, 2013
5:49 am
So does it change over at say 400 or 401?
Normal, Plain and Simple
March 14th, 2013
5:49 am
Good, good Thursday morning all y’all…
Maybe he was thinking about Cheney…
http://cheezburger.com/7114350848
Fred ™
March 14th, 2013
5:50 am
If Jay deletes a post or two do they still remain in the “count” or does it cause all pages to reset? Say he deletes 3 posts on page one. Will that make ALL the pages be renumbered?
Fred ™
March 14th, 2013
5:51 am
Hello Normal, don’t screw up my count lol.
Fred ™
March 14th, 2013
5:52 am
Here’s the money ball. 400. Now I will see.