Jeb Bush has a principled stand on immigration. Several, in fact.
Last summer, Jeb Bush was in favor of offering illegal immigrants a path to citizenship. As he told Charlie Rose:
“You have to deal with this issue. You can’t ignore it, and so either a path to citizenship, which I would support — and that does put me probably out of the mainstream of most conservatives — or a path to legalization, a path to residency of some kind.”
In his new book, “Immigration Wars: Forging an American Solution”, Bush comes out in stalwart opposition to citizenship.
“It is absolutely vital to the integrity of our immigration system that actions have consequences — in this case, that those who violated the law can remain but cannot obtain the cherished fruits of citizenship. To do otherwise would signal once again that people who circumvent the system can still obtain the full benefits of American citizenship.”
Today on “Morning Joe”, Bush was back to his initial position. Kind of … He repeatedly stressed that the book was written last year, as if something had happened recently to alter what in the book seems to be a strong, principle-based opposition to a path to citizenship. He also argued that a path to legalization would not create a magnet for future illegal immigration, while a path to citizenship somehow would.
“If you don’t have a difference between a path to citizenship or a path to legalization, you’re going to create a magnet going forward for more illegal immigration. So going forward — we wrote this last year — going forward, if there is a difference, if you can craft that in law where you can have a path to citizenship where there isn’t an incentive for people to come illegally, I’m for it. I don’t have a problem with that.”
A couple of points:
1.) The Bush flip-flop-flip has angered veterans of Mitt Romney’s campaign, which last year felt stranded on unpopular ground with the candidate’s “self-deportation” approach.
“Where the hell was this Jeb Bush during the campaign?” one advisor told the Miami Herald. “He spent all this time criticizing Romney and it turns out he has basically the same position. So he wants people to go back to their country and apply for citizenship? Well, that’s self deportation. We got creamed for talking about that. And now Jeb is saying the same thing.”
2.) The distinction that Bush attempts to draw between legalization and citizenship in fact has little real consequence. Those who have immigrated here illegally were drawn by jobs, the chance to escape Third World living conditions or greater opportunity for their children. Getting U.S. citizenship was way, way down on their list. A nice possibility, maybe, but hardly a deciding factor.
The notion that a path to legalization would be a less powerful magnet than a path to citizenship makes no sense, and Bush is smart enough to know it. But when you’re caught tacking to the right when the political winds are blowing left, and when you have ambitions of becoming the third consecutive Republican president named Bush, you have to scramble a bit.
– Jay Bookman
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2,197 comments Add your comment
Oscar
March 6th, 2013
10:17 pm
Keep – No, I would not say it was funny.
They call me MISTER JamVet.
March 6th, 2013
10:18 pm
Keep, that screechy scream was worth waiting for!
Jackie, that was killer. And I’d never heard it before. I cannot believe they were a Merseybeat band from Liverpool, England!
My goodness, who didn’t love SR & the Miracles?
I did. And singing along to that falsetto stuff felt so good!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIJ8_JUrj5E
moonbat betty
March 6th, 2013
10:20 pm
lol,
Keep cites a 1977 and a 2007 quote.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
March 6th, 2013
10:21 pm
This thread is getting pretty long with no substitutes on MARTA, charter schools in Georgia or anything.
Do you think Jay might have taken one of those Dekalb School Board jobs ??
moonbat betty
March 6th, 2013
10:23 pm
Jay went to the obama re-education camp in Maui.
Will be back Monday.
getalife
March 6th, 2013
10:23 pm
President Obama brought big changes to the auto industry with the leverage of the bailouts.
Leverage is the key to change.
moonbat betty
March 6th, 2013
10:24 pm
obama re-education camp:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHtQ4-WBkis
Brosephus™
March 6th, 2013
10:25 pm
test
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
March 6th, 2013
10:26 pm
moonbat betty:
It’s really quite comical how “Keep” operates on here. If he can’t debate he/she/it just brings out the personal attacks.
Bottom line:
The Department of Energy was created as an emergency agency to substantially reduce our dependence on foreign oil.
That could have been easily accomplished by allowing the private sector to discover, remove, refine and distribute oil from American states and territories.
Yes …………… DRILL BABY DRILL !
Instead that dependence has gone up and up and up.
moonbat betty
March 6th, 2013
10:26 pm
“Leverage is the key to change.”
Is leverage the same as extinction?
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
March 6th, 2013
10:27 pm
p.s.
Notice how he/she/it ignored the Obama Lie this week.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
March 6th, 2013
10:27 pm
Jam, if you are going bring up SR, another of my favs: Harold Melvin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEsbhOT-gfg
moonbat betty
March 6th, 2013
10:29 pm
0311, keep/kam are Bookman’s little blog poodles.
Throw em a milk bone once in a while.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
March 6th, 2013
10:29 pm
Yes Senior Spam, lie some more. Not a personal attack. Its a true you can’t run from. I posted the act. As usual you post nonsense and lies and then run away claiming “personal attack”, your daily tripe.
Brosephus™
March 6th, 2013
10:32 pm
Point #2)
“American dependence on imports grew from 10% in 1970 to 65% by the end of 2004. At the current rate of unchecked import growth, the US would be 70% to 75% reliant on foreign oil by the middle of the next decade.”
http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MTTIMUS1&f=M
Since reaching a peak of 455,595,000 barrels imported in Aug 2006, US imports of crude oil have been decreasing down to 297,920,000 barrels imported as of Dec 2012. If you think that’s an anomalie, then you only need to dig deeper to see why imports are dropping.
————–
As the Financial Times wrote last year, the crude oil trade is “in throes of an historic shift.” U.S. Gulf Coast refiners, which had relied on imports of light sweet crude oil from OPEC nations for years, have drastically reduced such imports, courtesy of rising domestic oil production.
[...]
Gulf Coast light oil imports fall
As the production of light oil has increased drastically over the past five years, led by increases in production from the Eagle Ford, the Bakken, and the Permian Basin, Gulf Coast refineries have become less reliant on foreign light crudes from places like Nigeria.
In fact, light crude imports processed in the U.S. Gulf Coast, or PADD 3, fell to less than 0.8 million barrels per day in the first half of 2012 from an average 1.2 million barrels per day in 2010. Tellingly, Phillips 66 (NYSE: PSX ) recently announced that it expects to process 80% more domestic crude this year than it did in 2012.
And Marathon Petroleum (NYSE: MPC ) also plans on using much greater quantities of North American crude, having recently boosted capacity at its Detroit refinery by 13%, to 120,000 barrels per day, in order to process Canadian heavy crude, which is even cheaper than Bakken and other grades of domestic crude. Both companies reported fourth-quarter earnings that blew Wall Street estimates out of the water, due largely to their increased access to heavily discounted inland crudes.
appleseed
March 6th, 2013
10:33 pm
How about the VW diesel/hybrid.better than 200mi.gal.Not to be made here,Germany.
getalife
March 6th, 2013
10:35 pm
“Is leverage the same as extinction?”
Yes for the gop.
Jackie
March 6th, 2013
10:38 pm
@Brosephus
Did you ever hear of the Orangeburg, SC massacre?
http://www.orangeburgmassacre1968.com/
They call me MISTER JamVet.
March 6th, 2013
10:38 pm
Keep, that song, and this one, has great juju for me…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXg0iXFHkxs
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
March 6th, 2013
10:41 pm
moonbat betty:
See !
LOL !
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
March 6th, 2013
10:42 pm
And one more time for the road !!
OBAMA LIED ……….. JANITORS CRIED !
Headline (Washington Post Fact Checker): “Sequester spin: Obama’s false claim of Capitol janitors receiving ‘a pay cut’ ”
“Indeed, Obama’s remarks at the news conference so alarmed Capitol Hill officials that an e-mail was sent by the Capitol building superintendent that comments that people who clean the building would get a cut in pay were “NOT true.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/sequester-spin-obamas-incorrect-claim-of-capitol-janitors-receiving-a-pay-cut/2013/03/01/3407535c-82a9-11e2-b99e-6baf4ebe42df_blog.html
They call me MISTER JamVet.
March 6th, 2013
10:43 pm
OK, time to sign off. An early start tomorrow, as I get to be a happy idiot and struggle for the legal tender…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQiXQUGbac0
Jackie
March 6th, 2013
10:44 pm
@JamVet
Often, groups like these appear and sing some of the “classics” raising the question, where have these guys been?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
March 6th, 2013
10:45 pm
Jam, good tune. I would add this one to that collection: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVYxKRXDT2I
Jackie
March 6th, 2013
10:46 pm
@JamVet
One more from the Escorts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImR5fNxDmYI
Brosephus™
March 6th, 2013
10:58 pm
Jackie
I’ve heard about that one. One of my good friends has family in Orangeburg. I’ve been there and walked SCSU and Claflin campuses.
Jackie
March 6th, 2013
11:00 pm
@Brosephus
It is amazing that people would be killed because they wanted to bowl.
The thing that stands out about that incident is the Highway Patrol used automatic weapons and most of the students were shot while trying to run away.
Brosephus™
March 6th, 2013
11:07 pm
Jackie
That’s usually how they all happened. One officer heard a shot, and everybody else fired off into the crowds. There are probably far more instances where this stuff happened than anybody has ever reported. I often wonder if that’s what bothers some of these older people about the impending loss of their majority status.
Jackie
March 6th, 2013
11:17 pm
@Brosephus
I have many friends who were students at SCSU and they indicate the Highway Patrol had specific orders from someone “higher up” to disperse and use the weapons.
The older citizens are still doing what they can to maintain control of all aspects of our lives.
moonbat betty
March 6th, 2013
11:20 pm
Bro,
From what I’ve heard, the older European-American generation isn’t worried about the impending loss of majority status. It’s the ongoing battle between the Latin-Americans and African-Americans.
Funny how everyone is worried what the European-Americans think when the real threat is between the Latin-Americans (and themselves) vs. the African-Americans (and themselves).
getalife
March 6th, 2013
11:54 pm
A black man will end the gop.
Karma.
Brosephus™ - Star Bellied Sneeches: The Original 1%
March 7th, 2013
12:00 am
Enter your comments here
moonbat betty
March 7th, 2013
12:01 am
getalife, Karma:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP0OaUOQGCg
TBS
March 7th, 2013
12:02 am
” I often wonder if that’s what bothers some of these older people about the impending loss of their majority status.”
Would have never thought who is worrying about it the most but surely is
moonbat betty
March 7th, 2013
12:03 am
watch it Bro, Kam might jump out from the shadows and say:
“Enter your comments anywhere but here”
TBS
March 7th, 2013
12:03 am
moonbat
You say “real threat”…….. You substantiate that with what? Right leaning talking points that are working to influence folks like you to buy into it?
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Brosephus™
March 7th, 2013
12:06 am
betty
The brown on brown conflict is a bit overblown by the non-brown.
moonbat betty
March 7th, 2013
12:10 am
“You substantiate that with what? Right leaning talking points that are working to influence folks like you to buy into it?”
I apologize, TBS.
Semantics…I should have said “larger threat”.
Look around you…or not.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ze6zm1MUtOA
TBS
March 7th, 2013
12:21 am
moonbat
I’m not saying there aren’t schisms and divides, but saying it is overblown for a reason………….
No need for apologies at all……….
TBS
March 7th, 2013
12:23 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDZyG0KJqik
back at ya
peace and have a great night……………..
Thomas Heyward Jr
March 7th, 2013
7:06 am
“You say this is a battlefield? The hell it is. It’s our Country.” Sen. Rand Paul.
.
.
Paul’s stand should also serve as a source of everlasting shame to the so-called Progressives who obviously care not one iota for human rights, democracy or decent government at all, as long as one of their own is the current elected dictator.
.
Forward Decency!
Granny Godzilla
March 7th, 2013
7:12 am
THomas
So you still support sending your kids in on the ground to fight and die instead of a drone strike?
Normal, Plain and Simple
March 7th, 2013
7:31 am
Granny Godzilla
March 7th, 2013
7:12 am
I don’t expect you will get an answer on that one. As far as I’m concerned I wish we had a drone when McVeigh had been driving to Oklahoma City. I would have taken him out in a heartbeat.
My view is if an American Citizen takes up arms against his country, he forfiets that citizenship and is, in fact, an enemy of the State. Kill him anyway you can.
TaxPayer
March 7th, 2013
7:35 am
My view is if an American Citizen takes up arms against his country, he forfiets that citizenship and is, in fact, an enemy of the State. Kill him anyway you can.
Of course. That’s probably what scares these cons so much given it does not give them the freeeeedom to secede and confiscate without fear of retaliation. The cons want laws that would have made Lincoln’s efforts illegal.
Keyser Soze
March 7th, 2013
7:36 am
“As far as I’m concerned I wish we had a drone when McVeigh had been driving to Oklahoma City. I would have taken him out in a heartbeat.”
Have you invented a time machine???
TaxPayer
March 7th, 2013
7:41 am
Have you invented a time machine???
Deflect much???
Normal, Plain and Simple
March 7th, 2013
7:42 am
Keyser,
I don’t believe you’re that dumb. I was saying that if we had known about him and if we had the technology back then, I would have been proud to have pushed the button to take out that “American Citizen”.
Granny Godzilla
March 7th, 2013
7:43 am
I just want Thomas to admit that OUR KIDS would have to do the job the drones do….
and I want to know if he or his kids are in line to volunteer for that duty.
Thomas Heyward Jr
March 7th, 2013
7:46 am
Granny Godzilla
March 7th, 2013
7:12 am
THomas
So you still support sending your kids in on the ground to fight and die instead of a drone strike?
———————————————————————————-
.
I never supported that.
The only place I would send my kids were to Canada……….
Now if some heathen Federles or other foreign invaders attacked my state then I would encourage them to take a stand.
.
What part of “defense” do you not understand?
Marty Huggins'
March 7th, 2013
7:47 am
Granny Godzilla
March 7th, 2013
7:43 am
Our kids could kill innocent women and children too. That’s why drones do.
Is that what you are saying?
Now would you admit the government has made mistakes before in matters of life or death?
Why do you wish to remove due process?
Normal, Plain and Simple
March 7th, 2013
7:50 am
The bottom line here is that the drone attacks are working. The spread terror among the Terrorist’s and give them a dose of their own medicine. Since they do work, they will do anything they can to make them stop…mainly by pointing out civilian casualties, casualties that we only have their word on, by the way… In my way of thinking, The Rand Paul’s of this world are aiding and abetting the enemy of our country, and who has sworn to take us down. That, by any definition, is treason…but that’s just me. I think the real reason is that the Rand Paul’s of this world just don’t like anything President Obama does, and would rather save some terrorists than to see him succeed.
TaxPayer
March 7th, 2013
7:52 am
Our kids could kill innocent women and children too.
Like when we bombed Iraq with manned planes.
Normal, Plain and Simple
March 7th, 2013
7:52 am
Mary,
Do you mourn over the innocent women and children who are killed in suicide attacks? Attacks where the perpetrators have no problem with collateral damage?
Normal, Plain and Simple
March 7th, 2013
7:54 am
And Mary,
Take my earlier example abour Mcveigh, would you have taken him out before he got to Oklahoma City via a drone, if that was the only way to stop him? I would, and due process be damned.
TaxPayer
March 7th, 2013
7:54 am
Rand Paul and the con’s “patriots”.
Thomas Heyward Jr
March 7th, 2013
7:55 am
Normal, Plain and Simple
.
“In my way of thinking,”–
———————————————————————-
.
Shorter————-”My guys in and Obama is above the law.”.
.
Shallow.
TaxPayer
March 7th, 2013
7:57 am
Our kids could kill innocent women and children too.
Is that a reference to Sandy Hook. I hope you’re not suggesting that we limit your 2nd amendment rights.
TaxPayer
March 7th, 2013
7:58 am
McVeigh thought he was above the law. He was wrong. He was nothing but a murderer.
Granny Godzilla
March 7th, 2013
7:58 am
First Thomas…
“What part of “defense” do you not understand?”
Actually I understand the entire word do you?
Are you a CO? Always been a CO? Or sis that happen in January of 2009?
Then
Marty Huggins
“Our kids could kill innocent women and children too. That’s why drones do.
Is that what you are saying?”
You’ll have to explain that hot mess word salad before an intelligent comment can be made.
“Now would you admit the government has made mistakes before in matters of life or death?”
Admit? Never denied it. Stood up and protested it.
“Why do you wish to remove due process?”
Never said I did. Do you want to?
but answer me this…..how much due process did the VA Tech shooter get?
He was “taken out” was he not?
Thomas Heyward Jr
March 7th, 2013
7:59 am
TaxPayer
March 7th, 2013
7:58 am
McVeigh thought he was above the law. He was wrong. He was nothing but a murderer.
———————————————-
.
Ditto the Kenyen.
Marty Huggins'
March 7th, 2013
8:03 am
Normal, Plain and Simple
March 7th, 2013
7:52 am
Yes I mourn for those killed in suicide bombs!
Why do you not mourn for children forced into military type service or for the innocent women and children who happen to live near terrorist?
If we knew ahead of time what McVeigh was going to do we should have arrested him!
That is what the law is arrest him then prosecute then convict.
If we had done that the bomb in OKC would not have happened.
But none of us have the benefit of hind site 20/20 time machine capabilities.
Why would you not just wish to apprehend a McVeigh type and prosecute them to stop them from blowing up a building?
Why do you want to kill them? Why is that your solution to simply kill them?
Would apprehending him the night before not have prevented OKC the same way as killing him would?
Bloodlust much?
What if the government is wrong?
TaxPayer
March 7th, 2013
8:03 am
“Ditto the Kenyen.”
Blow smoke much.
Granny Godzilla
March 7th, 2013
8:05 am
Squishy
Normal, Plain and Simple
March 7th, 2013
8:09 am
Thomas,
I presented you with a logical argument and you come back with “Shorter————-”My guys in and Obama is above the law.”.
.
Shallow.”
and…
“McVeigh thought he was above the law. He was wrong. He was nothing but a murderer.
———————————————-
.
Ditto the Kenyen.”
You are just another Obama hater and will not recognize anything he does except to twist it against him. You have no value to me anymore. Be off with you. Go mingle with all those other hate groups out there.
Thomas Heyward Jr
March 7th, 2013
8:10 am
Granny Godzilla
March 7th, 2013
7:58 am
First Thomas…
“What part of “defense” do you not understand?”
Actually I understand the entire word do you?
Are you a CO? Always been a CO? Or sis that happen in January of 2009?
———————————————————————————————————–
.
Yes …I am a CO to all unconstitutional wars.
I did time in the Navy before I evolved.
It all changed when I saw Bush W joking about looking for WMDs under the table at a Black Tie affair…Followed up by Bush 3 Obama joking about droning his daughter’s boyfriends..
.
.
Pure unmitigated evil……….and you Opologists will wear your shame…..forever.
stands for decibels
March 7th, 2013
8:12 am
FACT: More Americans are killed with shovels than with drones!
Normal, Plain and Simple
March 7th, 2013
8:14 am
Mary,
In my military career, I have seen more than my share of innocents killed. I didn’t like it, but was where the enemy was…hiding among them hoping we would pass them by. We didn’t. and we shouldn’t. The Muslim terrorist are cowards that hide among those women and children. The people have to know that and protect themselves. War sucks and innocents will die, but we cannot stop killing the ones who are trying to kill us. If we do, then we can expect another 911, and it just might end up being here. And drones do save lives, American lives.
stands for decibels
March 7th, 2013
8:15 am
A bit late in posting this, but it merits an airing here:
“I’ll spare you most of my deep thoughts on the passing of Hugo Chavez, but it’s a useful moment to notice how that while there are bad rulers all across the globe, there’s always almost universal agreement in our media – left right and center – that the real bad rulers are the ones our government declares to be bad rulers.
“I love the House of Saud, and will be happy to take significant amounts of money to continue to say so.”
Marty Huggins'
March 7th, 2013
8:16 am
Granny Godzilla
March 7th, 2013
7:58 am
1st
VT shooter committed suicide! He was not taken out he took himself out!
2nd the
The word salad I believe you called it…..
In other words drones kill innocent men, women and children are you saying it would be best for our children here to be going over there and doing the killing of the innocent?
3rd
If you admit government makes mistakes and has made them and you even protested against them why so confident now?
Why do you now agree these same folks should be given the power to not only decide your freedom but your right to exist?
Could they not have bad intel?
Before your government kills you should you not have a chance to defend yourself?
Wonder if it has anything to do with partisanship on your behalf????
Also if the government was able to obtain enough information to kill you without any shadow of doubt should they not also be positive of your location to a point where they could just arrest you and stop whatever plot you may have had?
indigo
March 7th, 2013
8:16 am
Thomas Hewyard, Jr., Mary Huggins
Why do you support American traitors whose one desire is to kill as many of their fellow Americans as possible?
Granny Godzilla
March 7th, 2013
8:16 am
Thomas
I can respect your evolution.
I still disagree on drones.
AS far as wearing my shame forever, as long as I have shoes and a bag that match I will
face my fate confidently.
Now, Thomas, other than sharing your views here on the blog…what else are you doing?
Organizing or attending protests?
Thomas
March 7th, 2013
8:18 am
http://reason.com/blog/2011/12/22/little-girl-mutilated-by-obamas-drone-wa
I assume the parents of the little girl killed by a drone are “Obama haters” as well.
8 years of folks blindly following the Bush administration. I thought the libs would be a little smarter. Oh well- Liberalism does indeed take more faith than any religion I have seen.
All fun and games until China starts “droning” in America under the auspices of their national security.
On a less serious note hard to take Rand Paul seriously when he is wearing a 7 foot neck tie.
Fred ™
March 7th, 2013
8:20 am
Why do you wish to remove due process?
There is due process in war? Wow, we would still be fighting WWII. But at least it would eliminate sneak attacks.
Excuse me General von Manteuffel, General Patton is almost here with his Third Army to relieve your encirclement of the 101st Airborne. Could you please have your men standing by for our judges so we can give them each due process before we begin the attack?
Marty Huggins'
March 7th, 2013
8:22 am
Normal, Plain and Simple
March 7th, 2013
8:14 am
Drones saves lives is your opinion and there is not one single piece of evidence you can show that drones save lives.
The argument could be made that they ignite more terrorist who watch their mother blown apart in the middle of the day just by being in the wrong place.
Yeah that kids gonna blame the terrorist and not the group who sent the drone!
Also when using drones and not detaining/capturing combatants how much information on future attacks or information on the terrorist as a unit are we going to gain from the dead?
Granny Godzilla
March 7th, 2013
8:23 am
Marty
You are right on the VA Tech shooter…..but what about the concept?
Can we take out the shooter in a similar circumstance? Or do we have to arrest him?
.
.
.
“In other words drones kill innocent men, women and children are you saying it would be best for our children here to be going over there and doing the killing of the innocent?”
Better less lettuce. No exactly the opposite, read slower.
Yes, our government makes mistakes, but to make perfection the enemy of action is
too dangerous.
Should we not have dropped fat man and little boy?
Fred ™
March 7th, 2013
8:24 am
All fun and games until China starts “droning” in America under the auspices of their national security.
My God, you can’t make this crap up. Someone ACTUALLY wrote this stupid sht. The Chinese can’t even cross the Formosa Strait and this muttonhead has them sending drones over the US.
Wow. Good thing stupid isn’t contagious.
Thomas
March 7th, 2013
8:25 am
Should we not have dropped fat man and little boy?
Now that is an interesting question- A good # of folks would claim the biggest atrocity on mankind. Did it prevent more deaths than it caused? How do you separate the love of country and the love of all mankind. Was Chavez a hero or villain?
Fred ™
March 7th, 2013
8:27 am
It’s funny how the talk radio FOXBOTS act as though drones just suddenly appeared and haven’t been used for over a decade. It shows how stupid they really are and how susceptible to their talk radio/fox puppet masters.
The issue isn’t “drones” it’s that President Obama is President. We ain’t hear crap about drones when Bush was droning the crap out of Iraq, and Afghanistan……… and Pakistan……… whoops sorry Pakistan, that one slipped. Do over………
TaxPayer
March 7th, 2013
8:28 am
Odd how Thomas has put the past behind him even though Bush was the one that sent our men and women to their deaths in a worthless war in Iraq and also left many innocent Iraqis dead to boot. At least give them equal time. By the way, do you have a similar name for Bush that you have for the “Kenyan”. You are indeed quite the “Patriot” , Heyward. Don’t hide it. Take ownership of it. Embrace it.
Marty Huggins'
March 7th, 2013
8:29 am
Fred ™
March 7th, 2013
8:20 am
WWII
Was against foreign nations was it not?
Has a war been declared upon us citizens?
“Overseas Contigency Operation”
Notice the use of the word Overseas, not domestic or homeland.
Also notice the lack of the word war?
Granny Godzilla
March 7th, 2013
8:32 am
Thomas
March 7th, 2013
8:25 am
Should we not have dropped fat man and little boy?
Now that is an interesting question- A good # of folks would claim the biggest atrocity on mankind. Did it prevent more deaths than it caused?
.
.
.
.
Very moving exhibit in Independence at the Truman Library that covers both sides of that question.
It will bring tears to your eyes.
Normal, Plain and Simple
March 7th, 2013
8:33 am
Mary,
Drones save lives in two ways. One: By killing those who would kill us. Two: By keeping American soldiers out of a war zone. Your Naivety would get our soldiers killed. Better them than us. Mary, this IS war to them. They would offer you no quarter so return the favor.
Fred ™
March 7th, 2013
8:34 am
Gee Marty, call it the war on terror or the overseas contingency plan or the nuke the miserable pricks plan or whatever, and it’s all the same thing. Until we pull out of Afghanistan and Iraq, we use whatever weapons we have to save OUR SOLDIER’S LIVES.
I care as much about the lives of terrorists as they did about the people in the twin towers. If terrorists want to shield themselves with civilians, I’m sorry, that isn’t a free pass.
Marty Huggins'
March 7th, 2013
8:35 am
Granny Godzilla
March 7th, 2013
8:23 am
As far as the concept I basically refer you to Ruby Ridge.
That is your shoot to kill in a case study for you.
Was Randy Weaver wrong for his actions? Yes
Was Randy Weaver a criminal? According to the warrant they were there to serve yes.
Did Vicki Weaver and Sammy Weaver need to die that day? No
Fred ™
March 7th, 2013
8:36 am
Marty, I came late to this party, but you are using domestic and overseas interchangeably and they aren’t.
War drone strikes= good
Domestic Drones strikes= bad.
Keyser Soze
March 7th, 2013
8:37 am
Wasn’t Rand Paul’s rant solely about the use of drones on US Soil to kill US citizens? Isn’t that what we are talkiing about?
Fred ™
March 7th, 2013
8:40 am
Wasn’t Rand Paul’s rant solely about the use of drones on US Soil to kill US citizens? Isn’t that what we are talking about?
Given the irrational crap he said during it, who knows?
Marty Huggins'
March 7th, 2013
8:43 am
Fred ™
March 7th, 2013
8:34 am
So we can put you into the category of those who feel the us government’s intel is without flaw and accurate?
Weapons of Mass Destruction!!!! Hahaha
How many terrorist are we creating when we kill innocent children’s parents?
Do you think the child will blame the terrorist or the one who controlled the drone?
How are drone attacks on US Soil going to help anything going on in the Middle East?
Normal, Plain and Simple
March 7th, 2013
8:44 am
Fred,
Rand Paul and his constant Hitler references make me want to take him seriously…not.
Welcome to the Occupation
March 7th, 2013
8:46 am
Fred: “Given the irrational crap he said during it, who knows?”
Isn’t it in the nature of a filibuster that one talks a little bit of ‘crap’? I mean, the idea is really to hold the floor.
Doggone/GA
March 7th, 2013
8:47 am
This whole drone “discussion” is nothing but a bunch of baloney. The drone is a platform, just like a car is a platform, or an airplane is a platform, or a tank is a platform. It’s still “manned” and it can be used…or abused…just like any other manned platform.
Our government agents “take out” people all the time without “due process”…what does it MATTER what weapons platform they use to do that?
Marty Huggins'
March 7th, 2013
8:47 am
Fred ™
March 7th, 2013
8:36 am
No I am not using them interchangeably.
I have separate issues with both.
Waaaay more issues with their use here.
I have issue with their use overall but understand as a necessary evil over there sometimes.
I do wonder if it is not breeding future terrorist though.
If I led you to believe otherwise apologies for that.
Normal, Plain and Simple
March 7th, 2013
8:48 am
Mary,
Earlier you asked/alluded to don’t I think the Government makes mistakes. Being a lifer in the Military, I can most definitely say yes. Viet Nam, Iraq, Ruby Ridge, Waco, Wounded Knee, and the the list goes on. Just wanted you to know.
Normal, Plain and Simple
March 7th, 2013
8:50 am
Doggone,
Well said.
pete
March 7th, 2013
8:51 am
A leaked email from an Agriculture Department field officer adds fuel to claims President Obama’s political strategy is to make the billions in recent federal budget cuts as painful as possible to win the public opinion battle against Republicans.
“This email confirms what many Americans have suspected: The Obama administration is doing everything they can to make sure their worst predictions come true and to maximize the pain of the sequester cuts for political gain,”
Said it before and will say it again…Obama is such an a$$hole.
Marty Huggins'
March 7th, 2013
8:51 am
Doggone/GA
March 7th, 2013
8:47 am
So it happens all the time????
When was the last time the government agency “took out” a citizen on United States soil other than suicide by cop?
Especially without due process?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
March 7th, 2013
8:52 am
A more recent document, submitted to Congress by Attorney General Eric Holder, suggested that under “extraordinary” circumstances, such as Pearl Harbor or 9/11, the president could kill an American citizen on American soil. In testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee on Wednesday, Holder specifically admitted that killing an American in the United States would be inappropriate and unconstitutional if the individual did not pose an imminent threat.
So Marty, if a hijacked plane has been crashed into Empire State Building and a second plane has been hijacked from an American airport and is headed to NY, do you think the President can order the plane shot down by an F14? Can he shoot it down with a drone?
Fred ™
March 7th, 2013
8:52 am
Marty: Like I said, i came to the party late so if I misunderstood you I as well am sorry. As far as breeding terrorists? They hate us no matter what we do and nothing will change that. Look at how many “Palestinians” Jordan killed when they forcibly removed them from Jordan. Do they bomb and missile Jordan? Nope. But Israel, they Country that BEGGED them not to leave in 1946 is under constant attack……… and thye hate Americans as well.
The terrorists are like talk radio FOXBOTS. They are brain washed by their puppet masters and schooled in hate. There is no rationality to it. Nothing will change unless the puppetmasters change it. It is not in the puppetmasters best interest to change anything. They get power and money out of it.
Progressive, Liberal, Lefty
March 7th, 2013
8:53 am
Daddy Bush actually wasn’t that bad. Dubya was an obvious disaster from the get go. Jeb seems to at least have a thought or two and he might be almost bearable…for a republican. But, I have a hard time imagining that the country would elect another Bush. He wouldn’t get my vote.
Marty Huggins'
March 7th, 2013
8:55 am
Normal, Plain and Simple
March 7th, 2013
8:48 am
I agree with many of those mistakes you listed.
So why would you give that same group with that trac record of rushed or bad decisions to be also making the decision of which Americans are granted due process and which are not?
What if they make another mistake?
One can always be released from prison but we cannot reanimate humans with any consistent level of success yet.