The Chinese gov’t knows that you’re reading this
“Start asking security experts which powerful Washington institutions have been penetrated by Chinese cyberspies, and this is the usual answer: almost all of them.
The list of those hacked in recent years includes law firms, think tanks, news organizations, human rights groups, contractors, congressional offices, embassies and federal agencies.
The information compromised by such intrusions, security experts say, would be enough to map how power is exercised in Washington to a remarkably nuanced degree. The only question, they say, is whether the Chinese have the analytical resources to sort through the massive troves of data they steal every day….
“They’re trying to make connections between prominent people who work at think tanks, prominent donors that they’ve heard of and how the government makes decisions,” said Dan Blumenthal, director of Asian studies at the American Enterprise Institute, which also has been hacked. “It’s a sophisticated intelligence-gathering effort at trying to make human-network linkages of people in power, whether they be in Congress or the executive branch.”
According to experts, the Chinese hack everybody. They hack major corporations and steal trade secrets — attacks against Google, Apple, the Wall Street Journal and the New York Times have been publicized in recent years. They hack lowly individual dissidents. They hack, or attempt to hack, major agencies in the U.S. government, including the Pentagon, CIA and White House and most certainly the Department of Commerce. Given the byzantine ways of the Chinese government, they almost certainly hack each other as well.
The natural response to such a discovery is outrage, and to some degree that outrage is justified. It is, at some level, a violation of our national sovereignty. But it gets complicated because China is hardly alone. A lot of other countries are aggressive about hacking into overseas computer networks, including the Israelis, the French and the Russians.
Oh, and the Americans too. It would be naive in the extreme to believe that the U.S. government isn’t running cyber-spying operations of its own. Those operations probably don’t extend to efforts to steal commercial secrets of foreign companies so that data can then be handed to U.S. companies, which the Chinese and other governments do. But on issues of national security, we are no doubt just as invasive as anybody else.
In other words, while everybody is a victim in this thing, everybody is also a villain. Nobody’s clean.
It’s also important to distinguish between cyberspying and cyberwarfare. If you can penetrate a highly sensitive computer network and steal data, you may also be able to do great damage to that network at a time of your choosing.
As President Obama put it in his State of the Union address:
“We know foreign countries and companies swipe our corporate secrets. Now our enemies are also seeking the ability to sabotage our power grid, our financial institutions, our air-traffic control systems. We cannot look back years from now and wonder why we did nothing in the face of real threats to our security and our economy.”
And again, it would be naive to believe that the U.S. government is not building similar capacity to bring down important computer networks in other countries, just in case it’s needed. In this game, like any other, you need to be able to play offense as well as defense.
To handle such duties, in 2010 the Defense Department created the U.S. CyberCommand, which is now slated for a major expansion. Eighty percent of the thousands of new personnel to be devoted to the effort will be military; 20 percent will be civilian experts. In fact, some of that expanded operation may be headquartered right here in Georgia, at Fort Gordon outside Augusta. That would be a big economic boost to the state, given the potential high-tech spinoffs from such an operation.
In other words, what we’re witnessing is a quiet, high-stakes state of virtual warfare that will be permanent and escalating.
– Jay Bookman
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
600 comments Add your comment
Brosephus™
February 21st, 2013
3:39 pm
Paul
Bless your heart for your continued vigilance in trying to get a serious answer from a group that seriously refuses to give one.
moonbat betty
February 21st, 2013
3:39 pm
lol JamVet.
I doubt Doggone/GA is going to ever invite me over for dinner now.
DebbieDoRight - Minister Of Propaganda
February 21st, 2013
3:43 pm
How long do you want to keep up the stupid diversions?
Are you kidding? He’s running away from your questioning so fast that He makes the Road Runner look like a turtle!
=====
Fred — Congrats!! That’s how i started, as a paralegal. I was lucky enough (and probably good enough), that my employer sent me to school to become a lawyer. Nothing as hoity toity as UVA though! Oh no not Debs…………..I went to Mercer! I would commute between Macon and Atlanta until I finally just got an apartment in Macon for day I didn’t feel like driving back to Atlanta. Good times!
Oh and I saw that dig you made about lawyers. I forgive you for you know not what you do….
===========
“Iguess to stop someone that attempted to stop the free flow of oil (the backbone to our entire economic system) to our nation is not any type of threat?”
OMG I hope you were joking and this was just a tongue in cheek comment meant to illicit a response but not to be taken seriously.
If you were actually serious…………well………………all i can say is:
You: What truth?
DDR: That you are a slave, Neo. Like everyone else, you were born into bondage, born inside a prison that you cannot smell, taste, or touch. A prison for your mind. (long pause, sighs) Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Matrix is. You have to see it for yourself. This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back.
(In her left hand, DDR shows a blue pill.)
Debs: You take the blue pill and the story ends. You wake in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe.
(a red pill is shown in her other hand)
You take the red pill and you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes. Remember — all I am offering is the truth, nothing more.
TAKE THE RED PILL!!! SAVE YOURSELF!!
Marty Huggins'
February 21st, 2013
3:44 pm
Doggone/GA
February 21st, 2013
3:26 pm
An apology on my behalf.
I’m in and out due work so just wanted to respond, I didn’t want to be rude or nuthin
Trolls Bane
February 21st, 2013
3:44 pm
Military Intelligence ..
All of the best either are already employed by Washington or are working in private industry. These ppl command big $$$$$. This is not a job a 19 wet-behind the ears high-school grad.
Unfortunately, uncle is not well like by the best of the best ….
Doggone/GA
February 21st, 2013
3:45 pm
“I doubt Doggone/GA is going to ever invite me over for dinner now”
Why would I not? I don’t serve either dog OR Chinese!
Marty Huggins'
February 21st, 2013
3:47 pm
Paul,
What was your original question?
I am way too lazy to read back through to find it.
Trying to figure out what the fuss is about
td
February 21st, 2013
3:47 pm
Paul
February 21st, 2013
3:27 pm
It appears that the latest two (Facebook and GE) were taking advantage of the tax laws as they are written. (BTW: Both of these two are huge Democratic supporters).
It is the Republicans that have been talking about for years to totally redo the tax system in this country to either a flat tax with no or very few write offs or a consumption tax. Go talk to your progressive brothers and sisters if you think the current system is unfair.
DebbieDoRight - Minister Of Propaganda
February 21st, 2013
3:47 pm
That is a future taxpayer telling you progressive what they think of you when they get the bill for the debt you are currently accruing that they will be responsible for.
Are you high td? If so, that’ll explain a lot. that picture was of a little english kid…………..
Paul
February 21st, 2013
3:48 pm
td
What one in a million example?
DebbieDoRight - Minister Of Propaganda
February 21st, 2013
3:49 pm
It appears that the latest two (Facebook and GE) were taking advantage of the tax laws as they are written. (BTW: Both of these two are huge Democratic supporters).
ANSWER HIS QUESTION AND STOP RUNNING FROM THE TRUTH!!
TAKE THE RED PILL ALREADY!!!
Tundra Dude
February 21st, 2013
3:50 pm
Danica will win.
NASCAR will do anything to increase their ratings
Another Homie hitting the Big Time!!
Go Danica!
Kamchak ~Thug from the Steppes
February 21st, 2013
3:51 pm
A Tri-Cornered Sombrero Is A Very Hard Thing To Find
Heh, heh, heh.
That Black Guy
February 21st, 2013
3:52 pm
“The older dog would eat everything in sight so the new pup couldn’t get his food…it didn’t work and he got fat”
My Dad’s Doxie just passed at the age of 15.
He was so fat, he had buttcheeks.
moonbat betty
February 21st, 2013
3:52 pm
“Why would I not? I don’t serve either dog OR Chinese!”
That’s good because I don’t care for either
DebbieDoRight - Minister Of Propaganda
February 21st, 2013
3:52 pm
Moonie’s here! Hiya moonie! Happy Thursday!
moonbat betty
February 21st, 2013
3:52 pm
eating that is…
Kamchak ~Thug from the Steppes
February 21st, 2013
3:53 pm
Oops, messed up that linkee thing.
moonbat betty
February 21st, 2013
3:53 pm
Hi Debbie,
Good to see ya!
Erwin's cat
February 21st, 2013
3:54 pm
He was so fat, he had buttcheeks.
I used to refer to ours as “the tick”…his head was tiny compared to the rest of him
moonbat betty
February 21st, 2013
3:54 pm
“He was so fat, he had buttcheeks.”
Did his belly drag the ground?
DebbieDoRight - Minister Of Propaganda
February 21st, 2013
3:55 pm
Kam — your links not working!!
комиссар (Occupation)
February 21st, 2013
3:55 pm
“Go talk to your progressive brothers and sisters if you think the current system is unfair.”
Why talk to the “progressives” on the current state of the tax system or tax code? What on earth have they had to do with it?
Paul
February 21st, 2013
3:56 pm
td 3:47
Aaaannnndd…..
you avoided answering again.
You are consistent, I’ll give you that.
Marty Huggins’
Started yesterday with Sinkwich saying he was fine with corporations paying zero tax because they’re following the tax law and should not pay one bit more than required. I then asked him if he was fine with ‘the 47%” who pay no federal income taxes because they, too, are following the tax law and should not pay one bit more than required.
Sinkwich left.
Then we had another blogger pop in. He too, avoided when his attention was redirected to the original question.
Then this morning, enters kayaker 71.
““(kayaker 71) So the Kochs ought to be paying more than the law says they should. I am sure, because of your belief in higher taxes and more government spending, that you send the IRS a little extra at tax time….. you know, just to make you feel better. If you want to get a big old hard on about who pays what, you are blaming the wrong people. Congress makes tax law in this country, or did, the last time I checked. And they could have changed the tax laws anytime in the last 50 or so years but have elected not to do so.”
(Paul) kayaker 71, that pretty much parallels what Sinkwich said yesterday about corporations when I asked him if he was fine that corporations that make billions, in fact get taxpayer subsidies (Facebooks’s on par with Solyndra) pay zero federal income tax. He said it didn’t bother him a bit, repeated what you said about not paying more than legally required, etc.
But I asked Sinkwich a followup, which he ducked. I’m hoping you’ll address it.
Given your response, are you also ‘fine’ that 47% of Americans pay no federal income tax? Because they shouldn’t pay more than is legally required? Because Congress made the laws and these people are obeying them? You’re fine if a corporation with profits of over a billion a year pays no tax and gets taxpayer assistance, you feel the same when it’s a single mom earning $25,000 a year, right?”
kayaker 71 responded in context of the single mom getting her earnings from welfare. When his error was pointed out, he left.
Then in popped td. True to form, he completely missed the big issue and zeroed in on how many single moms earn $25,000. We’re still in ‘td: f-o-c-u-s’ mode with him. Lots of slipping and sliding and yelling ‘Look, squirrel!!!’ but we’re hanging in there in attempting to have him address the big issue.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 21st, 2013
3:57 pm
DDR
My 3:53 should do it. If not, http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2013/02/21/a-tri-cornered-sombrero-is-a-very-hard-thing-to-find/
moonbat betty
February 21st, 2013
3:58 pm
Kam,
Why do liberal websites constantly photoshop words onto the protester’s signs and try to pass them off as legit?
~Rhetorical question…No need to answer.
td
February 21st, 2013
3:58 pm
DebbieDoRight – Minister Of Propaganda
February 21st, 2013
3:49 pm
“ANSWER HIS QUESTION AND STOP RUNNING FROM THE TRUTH!!”
What truth are you talking about? The truth of that both political parties use the tax code to pay off people that put them in power? The truth that our tax system needs a total overhaul? The truth that our taxes are way to high because we are paying for people to not take responsibility for their actions?
That Black Guy
February 21st, 2013
3:58 pm
Kamchak ~Thug from the Steppes
February 21st, 2013
2:53 pm
No, since he wasn’t in the US Senate at the time he had no vote on it. You know (or maybe you don’t) that it only takes a minute or two of your time to keep from looking like a total fool.
Really? When did he vote for either war? When did he become a Senator? When did the wars start? Hmmmmmmmm………. you didn’t REALLY mean to type to stupidity did you? You were just kidding right?
Ouch, that had to hurt.
________________________
In other words…
Knuts meet Boot.
getalife
February 21st, 2013
4:00 pm
Harvick wins again.
One more win and he dominated Daytona.
Brosephus™
February 21st, 2013
4:02 pm
Paul
One of these days you will tire of getting Charlie Browned. No matter how many times you try, they are gonna move the football. You’re more likely to buy a talking horse that will give you an honest answer before any of these pissant ideologues give you one.
Simple Truths
February 21st, 2013
4:03 pm
Oh they are! Well then, I’ll have an order of General Tso’s Chicken and Pork Fried Rice.
Mr. Ed
February 21st, 2013
4:03 pm
HELLO WILBUR
Kamchak ~Thug from the Steppes
February 21st, 2013
4:04 pm
Dance betty, dance
http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/funnypictures/ig/Funny-Protest-Signs/Make-English-Official-.htm
http://www.changingworld.com/catalog/broken-english-should-make-official-language-protest-sign-make-english-americas-offical-language-click-read-more-fertile-meme-postcard-broken-english-signs-postcard-emma-goldman-quote-p-5461.html
getalife
February 21st, 2013
4:04 pm
“The truth that our taxes are way to high because we are paying for people to not take responsibility for their actions?”
Yeah, banks, corporate and mic welfare of trillions.
They are the modern day robber barons.
St Simons - he-ne-ha
February 21st, 2013
4:05 pm
“Laura Bush asks to be edited out of pro-gay marriage ad”
Still – I loved her in that first Batman movie.
td
February 21st, 2013
4:09 pm
getalife
February 21st, 2013
4:04 pm
“The truth that our taxes are way to high because we are paying for people to not take responsibility for their actions?”
Yeah, banks, corporate and mic welfare of trillions.
They are the modern day robber barons.
Welfare is where the government is giving you money. To be able to keep the money you earned is NOT welfare.
moonbat betty
February 21st, 2013
4:09 pm
Kam, still photoshopped…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbJ9gNn9DQc
Paul
February 21st, 2013
4:09 pm
td
“ANSWER HIS QUESTION AND STOP RUNNING FROM THE TRUTH!!”
What truth are you talking about?”
I believe the truth to which DDR’s referring is ‘answer the question.’
Here it is again. Always good to hit reset and get back on track.
Given your response that you’re fine with corporations who earn profits not paying federal income taxes because they are obeying the law and should not pay more than lawfully required, are you also ‘fine’ that 47% of Americans pay no federal income tax? Because they shouldn’t pay more than is legally required? Because Congress made the laws and these people are obeying them? You’re fine if a corporation with profits of over a billion a year pays no tax and gets taxpayer assistance, you feel the same when it’s a single mom earning $25,000 a year, right?”
(if the ’single mom’ part trips you up, just substitute ‘families and individuals of low to moderate means)
getalife
February 21st, 2013
4:10 pm
td,
You enable it.
DebbieDoRight - Minister Of Propaganda
February 21st, 2013
4:11 pm
When his error was pointed out, he left.
Keep up the good work Paul! OMG! this NEVAH gets old!
======
Moone: Why do liberal websites constantly photoshop words onto the protester’s signs and try to pass them off as legit?
Because it’s funnier than, “Obama is as Marxist Liberal Commie Sympathizer!!!”? Libs like to laugh too.
Here’s my favorite sign. I laugh everytime I see that one! Someone even wrote a song about that sign! Another classic!
======
td — Don’t get mad at ME ’cause you can’t answer Paul’s simple question! I will not become your scapegoat! Sorry.
Paul
February 21st, 2013
4:12 pm
Brosephus
It’s like JamVet pointed out to me years ago: many, many people peruse this blog and never post. Some who do post take it all in and arrive at conclusions about the strengths and weaknesses and inconsistencies in various positions. Sometimes those thoughts get lifted and posted on other forums.
But once in a while, I just like watching what happens when the dim light of understanding appears and the sailor, in a panic as he gets closer, realizes he isn’t going to reach the horizon and drop off.
But most of our sailors simply turn the ship around, wipe their foreheads and mutter, ‘whew! THAT was a close one…”
Class of '98
February 21st, 2013
4:13 pm
We know the specific buildings the cyber attacks are coming from in China.
Obama should calmly tell the Chinese that if our power grid, water, etc. is compromised, and one American loses their life as a result, we will use tactical nuclear weapons to eliminate the cyber-threat in China.
Yes, I mean that. But I have no faith that Obama would have the stones to even consider an action like this.
getalife
February 21st, 2013
4:14 pm
Nuke em!
Too funny
Kamchak ~Thug from the Steppes
February 21st, 2013
4:17 pm
Dance betty, dance
http://rebello.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/000638.jpg
td
February 21st, 2013
4:18 pm
Paul
February 21st, 2013
4:09 pm
I think I have answered your question a few times. I think the current tax system sucks. I am with many Republicans that have advocated a flat tax that everyone has to pay or totally doing away with the income tax and going to a consumption tax.
williebkind
February 21st, 2013
4:18 pm
You guys and gals are not really complaining about taxation but rather the salary or bonuses the other guy makes while you dont. Minimum wage $18 and max wage $1.8m. If you make more than 1.8m you get taxed a 90% that goes strait to social security funds.
DebbieDoRight - Minister Of Propaganda
February 21st, 2013
4:19 pm
Still – I loved her in that first Batman movie.
You.Are.Soooo.BAD!!!!
I kinda like that…………
RAMZAD
February 21st, 2013
4:20 pm
The Chinese government is a greater threat to US security than AlQuida could ever be. The Chinese are trying to put the US in a position where it would neutralize our capacity to respond to certain national and international emergency situations.
It seems to me that the US should detach from China by educating our people to make what we need and return to markets with less hostile governments. My imagination tells me that some US defense and offense systems are so profoundly compromised by China that in a crisis they would be rendered useless.
williebkind
February 21st, 2013
4:20 pm
I am for a consumption tax if there has to be a tax.
williebkind
February 21st, 2013
4:21 pm
And you have to have a 666 on your right hand or forehead to buy or sell.
moonbat betty
February 21st, 2013
4:21 pm
lol Kam.
Check out Gallway’s latest blog and you can see my “real” picture.
Jefferson
February 21st, 2013
4:22 pm
Federal tax rates some of the lowest in 50 years and then the spending problems appear.
moonbat betty
February 21st, 2013
4:22 pm
Galloway’s..
moonbat betty
February 21st, 2013
4:23 pm
Oh, forgot to post your dance song, Kam:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdQDXs75Ulo
DebbieDoRight - Minister Of Propaganda
February 21st, 2013
4:24 pm
But I have no faith that Obama would have the stones to even consider an action like this.
Dubya, “I’m not really worried about Finding BinLaden” Bush says “Huh”? And “Duh”….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PGmnz5Ow-o
That Black Guy
February 21st, 2013
4:27 pm
moonbat betty
February 21st, 2013
3:54 pm
“He was so fat, he had buttcheeks.”
Did his belly drag the ground?
_______________________________
Belly and everything else.
DebbieDoRight - Minister Of Propaganda
February 21st, 2013
4:28 pm
WillieHebBlind: You guys and gals are not really complaining about taxation but rather the salary or bonuses the other guy makes while you dont.
How did you come up with that blind ? did Rush tell you that? Or was that just some random thought that came and flickered through your brains real quick?
moonbat betty
February 21st, 2013
4:29 pm
“Belly and everything else.”
Oh man, that would suck.
Paul
February 21st, 2013
4:29 pm
td
“I think I have answered your question a few times. I think the current tax system sucks. I am with many Republicans that have advocated a flat tax that everyone has to pay or totally doing away with the income tax and going to a consumption tax.”
That definitely does not answer the question.
It’s like being asked “if big rigs run on diesel, is it a good idea for passenger cars to run on diesel?’ to which you answer “I don’t like how our country is dependent on fossil fuels.
Let me break it down.
Either you are okay with corporations following the law and paying zero federal income tax on their profits, and getting additional subsidies, AND you are therefore okay with the 47% paying no federal income tax and maybe getting additional subsidies,
OR
you are okay with corporations following the law and paying zero federal income tax on their profits, and getting additional subsidies, and you are NOT okay with the 47% paying no federal income tax and maybe getting additional subsidies,
I think to many here it’s obvious you go for option 2.
Which one do you advocate?
Brosephus™
February 21st, 2013
4:29 pm
Paul
Keep doing what you do as I love to see them try to dance with two right feet.
td
February 21st, 2013
4:29 pm
Jefferson
February 21st, 2013
4:22 pm
Federal tax rates some of the lowest in 50 years and then the spending problems appear.
Federal tax revenues (money actually coming into the government) is at some of the highest levels ever. Spending is at the highest levels all time.
Brosephus™
February 21st, 2013
4:31 pm
Paul @ 4:29
LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 21st, 2013
4:32 pm
Which one do you advocate?
Option 3.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 21st, 2013
4:32 pm
C98 — “Obama should calmly tell the Chinese that if our power grid, water, etc. is compromised, and one American loses their life as a result, we will use tactical nuclear weapons to eliminate the cyber-threat in China. Yes, I mean that. But I have no faith that Obama would have the stones to even consider an action like this.”
Such an action would be more indicative of a loss of one’s marbles than of being in possession of ’stones.’
DebbieDoRight - Minister Of Propaganda
February 21st, 2013
4:33 pm
td picked Door #3 – He’s going to ignore you and if that doesn’t work he’s going to leave the blog and come back as his evil twin from the 5th dimension, Liberal Blog Eater.
I’ve got to get more popcorn to prepare for his return!
DebbieDoRight - Minister Of Propaganda
February 21st, 2013
4:35 pm
Federal tax revenues (money actually coming into the government) is at some of the highest levels ever. Spending is at the highest levels all time.
td — are you high?
td
February 21st, 2013
4:38 pm
Paul
February 21st, 2013
4:29 pm
Well since corporations do not really pay taxes (all they do is figure the taxes into the cost of the goods or services they pay and pass them onto the customer in the form of higher prices) and that a large % of those 47% are not only not paying their fair share but also, due to their irresponsible actions, are a drain on the rest of society then I will choose option 2.
Does that make you feel better.
td
February 21st, 2013
4:42 pm
DebbieDoRight – Minister Of Propaganda
February 21st, 2013
4:35 pm
Federal tax revenues (money actually coming into the government) is at some of the highest levels ever. Spending is at the highest levels all time.
td — are you high?
Go check out the numbers are come back and tell me who is high?
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=200
Paul
February 21st, 2013
4:43 pm
td
“Well since corporations do not really pay taxes (all they do is figure the taxes into the cost of the goods or services they pay and pass them onto the customer in the form of higher prices)”
As I’ve stated here before, my brother is a controller with a Fortune 500 corporation. I asked him one time how he’d respond to that statement. His response (please don’t take this personally, unlike me, he’s a person of very few words was) ‘why do you spend time talking to idiots?”
But regardless of your reasoning, thanks for answering. Lower-to-middle income-earning people and households – like some of our military – are irresponsible and a drain on society, while corporations don’t pay taxes so it doesn’t really matter.
Got it.
Don’t want it, want to wash after, but I got it.
dixie normous
February 21st, 2013
4:45 pm
Just saw a video of barry demanding sequester. DEMANDING IT!!
DebbieDoRight - Minister Of Propaganda
February 21st, 2013
4:46 pm
I will choose option 2.
FINALLY!! After 3 hours, 6 jigs, 4 U-turns, 22 reversals, and 110 deflections, td finally answers Paul’s question!
Finaly! As in FINALLY the ice age was over! thank you td; you may now take off that dunce cap and rejoin the rest of the class.
You’ve earned it.
PS: td — you picked Option #2, guess what? No one on the blog was surprised!
Brosephus™
February 21st, 2013
4:48 pm
that a large % of those 47% are not only not paying their fair share but also, due to their irresponsible actions, are a drain on the rest of society
Methinks someone doesn’t know of the groups that comprises the fabled 47%.
Btw… check that Joe Gibbs power!!!!!
getalife
February 21st, 2013
4:51 pm
My home boy wins .
Paul
February 21st, 2013
4:51 pm
ummm.. td…..
“td — are you high?
Go check out the numbers are come back and tell me who is high?”
You might want to look at your links before you post. Or at least understand them.
See the middle column? It’s labeled ‘constant’ dollars. Accounts for the time value of money. Converts all years to same value as they’d have in a specified year. Because a dollar in 1920 is worth a different amount than a dollar in 2010.
But back to that middle section. Constant 2005 dollars.
See the receipts for 09, 10 and 11? Let’s go thru this. Take 2010. Receipts are 1,899 (in billions). Now lets back up to 2001 (guess who was president then?). Receipts are 2,215.3. Rule of Thumb: 1,899 is LOWER than $2,215.3 and 2001 is BEFORE 2010.
Now if you want to have even more fun take a look at ‘receipts as percent of GDP” (That’s “Gross Domestic Product.” Smaller numbers mean it’s less than larger numbers.
Common Sense isn't very Common
February 21st, 2013
4:53 pm
DDR
I’m not speaking to you any longer. You said you liked most of the other regulars, but forgot ME LOL.
phttp
josef
February 21st, 2013
4:54 pm
“The Chinese gov’t knows that you’re reading this”
Yeah, but Big Daddy knows what I’m going to say before I say it…he’s inscrutable.
DebbieDoRight - Minister Of Propaganda
February 21st, 2013
4:56 pm
Go check out the numbers are come back and tell me who is high?
You still win.
Did you happen to look at the chart you referenced? And if you did, did you take a gander at the year 1944? Does it support your statement that ,” Spending is at the highest levels all time”? or refutes it?
Just wondering.
Jackie
February 21st, 2013
4:56 pm
@Paul
You are too good. LOL LOL LOL
alex
February 21st, 2013
4:57 pm
@ jefferson, what were the federal tax rates before the “great depression”? In fairness, if the govt could figure a way of taxing individuals and corporations correctly and COLLECTING the taxes, we could be in better shape,.. see last weeks “economist”
Old Physics Teacher
February 21st, 2013
4:57 pm
I wonder what happen under a Republican administration if it’s ever found out the Cuba or Iran is trying to hack our networks? Would we be invading those countries to bring freedom to their people? Would we install a new government and send our soldiers out to be targets while roaming the streets trolling for IEDs? Why won’t we do it to China?
josef
February 21st, 2013
4:58 pm
PAUL
It’s Thursday in a month with 28 days…what’s my assignment should I choose to accept it?
td
February 21st, 2013
4:59 pm
Paul
February 21st, 2013
4:43 pm
First, (do not take this the wrong way and it is not personal) but your brother is a total dumb ass or is lying to you if he is saying taxes are not factored into the bottom line. I am a small business owner that sells a service and a property landlord that rents houses and can tell you without hesitation that the taxes I have to pay are calculated into the prices I charge or the rent I ask for.
A company or corporation is in business to make a profit. If you do not make a profit then you go out of business (that is called bankruptcy) Taxes are an expense of doing business. When you are prices a product or service then you add up all of your expenses and then you add in your profit margin and then that is the price you charge.
To say taxes are not embedded into the price of products or services are just crazy.
DebbieDoRight - Minister Of Propaganda
February 21st, 2013
5:01 pm
Common – I didn’t get a chance to put down the sexiest bloggers of all time!!
Just when I was getting ready to do it, KAM posted something that was so funny he made me laugh and gave me the hiccups.
I would’ve made sure to put you on the “Top 10 Sexy” list if it wasn’t for Kam. Kam KNEW I wanted to add you to the sexy list and he deliberately posted that funny link.
Kam is a hater.
Common Sense isn't very Common
February 21st, 2013
5:05 pm
DDR
well when you go to court make sure you wear the black lace and boa and I MAY forgive you.
Paul
February 21st, 2013
5:05 pm
josef
How about picking up the Bosch tradition? You know, nekkid pagan dancing in the field in the moonlight?
Had a pic for you on Monday. ’cause I thought it was Mormon Monday. Or is it Wednesday? Anyway, it was on a Facebook page and said “No, I don’t give anything up for Lent. I’m Mormon. We freaking do that 365 days a year.”
Paul
February 21st, 2013
5:08 pm
td
“First, (do not take this the wrong way and it is not personal) but your brother is a total dumb ass or is lying to you if he is saying taxes are not factored into the bottom line.”
Riiight…. comptroller of a Fortune 500 company. Dumb ass. Or liar. You are quite despicable in your attempts to build yourself up. You know quite well you did not state ‘taxes are factored into the bottom line.” You clearly stated “Well since corporations do not really pay taxes (all they do is figure the taxes into the cost of the goods or services they pay and pass them onto the customer in the form of higher prices)”
You even lack the integrity to stand by what you say and instead try to weasel out, again.
Brosephus™
February 21st, 2013
5:09 pm
First, (do not take this the wrong way and it is not personal) but your brother is a total dumb ass or is lying to you if he is saying taxes are not factored into the bottom line. I am a small business owner that sells a service and a property landlord that rents houses and can tell you without hesitation that the taxes I have to pay are calculated into the prices I charge or the rent I ask for.
Sounds like your small business could use the expertise of a Fortune 500 law group.
Just sayin’…
DebbieDoRight - Minister Of Propaganda
February 21st, 2013
5:10 pm
The boa and black lace? Got it! (You’re easy!
)
=======
hiya josef!!
======
Well, I’m out! Need to hit the road before the rains come. Have a great Thursday everyone!
JamVet
February 21st, 2013
5:10 pm
Yes, watching Paul dismantle the intellectually dishonest and/or lacking is always a great time…
(How DID that absentee ballot get in my mailbox?! LOL!)
DebbieDoRight - Minister Of Propaganda
February 21st, 2013
5:11 pm
For td:
DDR: “Do not try and bend the spoon—that’s impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth.”
TD: “What truth?”
DDR: “There is no spoon.”
Joe Hussein Mama
February 21st, 2013
5:12 pm
O. P. Teacher — “Why won’t we do it to China?”
The Chinese People’s Liberation Army, that’s why (the entire Chinese military). It’s the single largest standing army in the world, and it’s about half again the size of ours.
Even if you add in reserves and paramilitary organizations like our Coast Guard, the Chinese *still* have half again as many people in uniform as we do; about 4.5 million compared to 3 million. And they have a LOT more people to draw from to build up their military. If the Chinese had as many people per capita in uniform as we do, their military would be TRIPLE its current size.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 21st, 2013
5:17 pm
Sheets, yo.
td
February 21st, 2013
5:17 pm
Paul
February 21st, 2013
4:51 pm
ummm.. td…..
“You might want to look at your links before you post. Or at least understand them.”
Oh I understand them and will get back to that a little later.
“See the middle column? It’s labeled ‘constant’ dollars. Accounts for the time value of money. Converts all years to same value as they’d have in a specified year. Because a dollar in 1920 is worth a different amount than a dollar in 2010.”
And why are they taking 2005 dollars as the standard?
“See the receipts for 09, 10 and 11? Let’s go thru this. Take 2010. Receipts are 1,899 (in billions). Now lets back up to 2001 (guess who was president then?). Receipts are 2,215.3. Rule of Thumb: 1,899 is LOWER than $2,215.3 and 2001 is BEFORE 2010.”
Now let us take a closer look at these fuzzy numbers: 2005 says that we took in real money of 2,153.6 and that was worth 2,153.6 but then in 2006 real revenues was 2,406.9 but was only worth 2,324.1. Wow in one years period of time real revenues went up but magically are worth a considerable amount less then just the year before. The main point is that you want to take these fuzzy math number instead of the real numbers?
“Now if you want to have even more fun take a look at ‘receipts as percent of GDP” (That’s “Gross Domestic Product.” Smaller numbers mean it’s less than larger numbers.”
Why should government revenue remain a % of GDP? If that is the case then why are you progressives gripping so much about what is spent on the military when as a % of GDP it is way lower then it has ever been. Mean tested entitlement programs as a % of GDP is at all time highs as well. Should we not cap them as a % of GDP?
Paul
February 21st, 2013
5:21 pm
td
Go to your local community college and take a course in cost accounting. And cost analysis. You’re asking pretty basic questions. Or anything dealing with present values and future values.
And don’t answer test questions with “you want to take these fuzzy math numbers instead of the real numbers?”
TaxPayer
February 21st, 2013
5:44 pm
I see our resident cons, when confronted with more reality that they have yet to contend with in reality, continue to try to create yet another denialist dimension to park themselves in. Poor cons.
Vast Right Wing Conspiracy (aka "Knuckle-Dragger")
February 21st, 2013
8:28 pm
Their information gathering may explain why their purchases and sales of U. S. Treasuries basically zero out over the last two years. Who are we going to sell these pigs to – the Greeks?
Joel Edge
February 22nd, 2013
6:27 am
” It is, at some level, a violation of our national sovereignty.”
If you could only get as outraged at other violations of our sovereignty, Jay. You know…maybe somebody doing something illegal.
Morality?
February 22nd, 2013
12:05 pm
Guess I was on here briefly yesterday unless I have a double. Forgot – so shoot me. that does not change the FACT that Obama voted to fund the Iraq and Afghan conflicts. Please tell me why he voted to fund something he was against it? Unless there were other motives there like him and the Dems getting “W” to sign off on the expansion of the SOCIALIST social programs in return for financial support for the “wars”. Obama is just another politician and they all have their price.
Morality?
February 22nd, 2013
12:14 pm
Fact is that Obama voted to financially support the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts – he voted YES. Doesn’t matter his agenda – he voted YES.
Morality?
February 22nd, 2013
12:19 pm
Obama was evaluated and found to be the 2nd most liberal voting member of Congress behind Bernie Sanders, the only admitted Socialist in Congress. Obama never NO when it cam to spending and expanding the role of the Fed gub’ment – never mind that we couldn’t pay for it. Obama voted to send us over the FISCAL cliff.