Standing athwart a pathway to citizenship, yelling ‘No!’
In a new Bloomberg poll, just 23 percent of Americans say they oppose giving illegal immigrants a pathway to citizenship. That finding is echoed by a newly released Pew poll, which reports that just 25 percent of Americans back the enforcement-only, no-citizenship option.
A handful of Senate Republicans, led by John McCain and Marco Rubio, is trying to move legislation that would respond to that clear expression of public opinion without also giving a legislative victory to President Obama. That is proving to be a difficult needle to thread. At some point, McCain and Rubio will probably have to decide which of those goals is more important.
And unfortunately, even if comprehensive immigration reform makes it through the Senate, the odds of passage through the GOP-run House look extremely low. That bill would have to go through the House Judiciary Committee, and in a new report by NPR, Committee Chairman Bob Goodlatte of Virginia expressed strong opposition to citizenship.
“People have a pathway to citizenship right now,” Goodlatte told NPR. “It’s to abide by the immigration laws, and if they have a family relationship, if they have a job skill that allows them to do that, they can obtain citizenship.”
Goodlatte also made it clear that he would extract a price for merely agreeing to give those illegal immigrants legal work status, without the option of citizenship.
“You’re going to have to have a program that assures those farms and those processing plants that there will be workers,” he said. “Because if you give them legal status, they can work anywhere in the United States — they’re not going to necessarily work at the hardest, toughest, dirtiest jobs.”
That’s a pretty damning statement. According to Goodlatte, employers need a class of people with little or no legal option except to work at the “hardest, toughest, dirtiest jobs.” For now, that niche is served by illegal immigrants, but if they are given a path out of that predicament — if they are given permits that allow them to work legally wherever they can find employment — the nation would have to import a lot more “guest workers” to replace them in doing that dirty work.
That’s strikes a powerful chord for me. At one time in our history, we did have a class of people with no option but the hardest, dirtiest jobs, people who were trapped by law in that role. One hundred and fifty years ago, we fought a war to end that system. Then as now, there’s something fundamentally wrong with systematically wringing the sweat out of people while denying them the hope of bettering themselves.
One other quote in the story also should be noted:
“We use Mexicans in our work,” Ed Toomey, a building contractor in Goodlatte’s Virginia congressional district, told NPR, “and, you know, they’re fine people. But there has to be a law. They have to abide by the rules, like everybody else.”
Those rules of course include rules against the hiring of illegal immigrants.
– Jay Bookman
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282 comments Add your comment
комиссар (Occupation)
February 21st, 2013
4:58 pm
“That’s a pretty damning statement. According to Goodlatte, employers need a class of people with little or no legal option except to work at the “hardest, toughest, dirtiest jobs.”
Well, the good man from Virginia evidently knows what he’s talking about. The South was built on cheap labor after all.
Sean
February 21st, 2013
5:00 pm
Good thing Republicans are sticking to their ideas.
josef
February 21st, 2013
5:06 pm
Goodlatte (what a name, I think I’d change mine to Cafeaulait) is only telling the truth.
комиссар (Occupation)
February 21st, 2013
5:06 pm
“But there has to be a law. They have to abide by the rules, like everybody else”
Abide by the law? Which law? The law of the government that flouts international law regularly with its pre-emptive actions abroad? Or the law of the guy who gets 30 months in the pen for being a whistleblower. The law of the Wall Street fraudsters who skate by, or that of Aaron Swartz? Funny how selective this “law” thing is when you look closely.
Where does this guy think he lives, the US of A of the rule of law prevails or something?
indigo
February 21st, 2013
5:10 pm
People from all over the world want to come to America. Unfortunately, we’re already overcrowded and our infrastructure is falling apart, just to name one of the myrad problems we can’t seem to find the money to fix. Millions of illegals here only makes this and many other of our problems worse.
If we give all these illegals a “pathway to citizenship”, look for millions more to come here illegally wanting the same thing. We just don’t have the resources for that.
josef
February 21st, 2013
5:11 pm
“One hundred and fifty years ago, we fought a war to end that system.”
No. We didn’t, We fought a war that ended that system.
But more seriously, what did we do right after that war? Went to a system of agricultural sharecriopping and industrial subservience stoked by a mass of illiterate and subservient working class imported for the purpose. Looks like we’ve made it at least to the 1880s…and who says there’s no progress…
Paul
February 21st, 2013
5:12 pm
“just 23 percent of Americans say they oppose giving illegal immigrants a pathway to citizenship. ”
Always gets me how nearly 100% of them end up on this blog….
” According to Goodlatte, employers need a class of people with little or no legal option except to work at the “hardest, toughest, dirtiest jobs.” For now, that niche is served by illegal immigrants”
Republicans have plenty of bullets, but aren’t they ever going to run out of feet to shoot them into?
комиссар (Occupation)
February 21st, 2013
5:15 pm
indigo: “just to name one of the myrad problems we can’t seem to find the money to fix .. If we give all these illegals a “pathway to citizenship”, look for millions more to come here illegally wanting the same thing. We just don’t have the resources for that.”
Such negativism and defeatism. Wait, don’t you call yourself a Reaganesque “morning in America” conservative? Why the long face?
josef
February 21st, 2013
5:16 pm
…we’re already overcrowded…”
No, we’re not.
” and our infrastructure is falling apart”
Yes, it is.
Many of those skills needed for infrastructural repair/reconstruction are already dominated by so-called illegals and immigrants. Folks that will put in a hard day’s work for a wage in a job “our” people wouldn’t touch…more immigrants will be needed to stoke that infrastructural upgrade and expansion.
Dunwoody Granny
February 21st, 2013
5:22 pm
Really, it’s the everyone-has-to-follow-rules, we’re-watching-your-behavior, mandatory-minimum obsession that’s the unloveliest part of the conservative agenda. And it’s often aimed at the wrong people!
too little time
February 21st, 2013
5:27 pm
That’s strikes a powerful chord for me. At one time in our history, we did have a class of people with no option but the hardest, dirtiest jobs, people who were trapped by law in that role.
…Except that illegal immigrants are not trapped by law in that role. They can always go home.
That pretty much invalidates everything else you said, Jay.
Jefferson
February 21st, 2013
5:28 pm
People are people, give em’ a SS# and a hearty welcome.
Brosephus™
February 21st, 2013
5:28 pm
People like this House member don’t know jack sh*t abou immigration law. How are you going to prevent something that’s already legal and in practice? We already have amnesty, and people with no legal status already have a pathway to citizenship. It’s called MARRY A CITIZEN. If they have a clean record, they pay a fine and get a green card as soon as their American spouse petitions for them to become a resident.
Why we’re still debating such sh*t shows how completely uninformed our “decision makers” really are, yet I bet this jackass easily wins re-election.
TM
February 21st, 2013
5:28 pm
with unemployment at 8% or 14% depending on who you believe apparently we want the illegals to do the grunt work and contribute to our tax base while the rest of us cash the govt checks.
josef
February 21st, 2013
5:28 pm
too little
Yeah, and the class Jay refers to could also have run away…
A Simple Man
February 21st, 2013
5:28 pm
Wow. Pretty good week of bashing the GOP. Nothing about unemployment, gas prices, Russia testing missiles and messing with Guam, economy, etc. Agenda?
MANGLER
February 21st, 2013
5:30 pm
Dear Republicans … when we kick all of ‘em back across whatever border, and all that’s left are fully legal ‘Mericans, you’re going to have to pay the workers in the fields and dirty jobs a whole lot more, or they just won’t get done. Georgia has already lost so many farmhands due to increased regulation and enforcement of documentation laws that the farms in the Southern half of the State are severely short handed. There are plenty of ‘Mericans in the cities that need work, but that connection isn’t happening. Why? “Those jobs” don’t pay enough for someone to legally want to move there.
Logical Dude
February 21st, 2013
5:30 pm
“You’re going to have to have a program that assures those farms and those processing plants that there will be workers,” he said
How about a livable wage?
ooops, did I say that out loud?
Joe Hussein Mama
February 21st, 2013
5:30 pm
t. l. Time — “…Except that illegal immigrants are not trapped by law in that role. They can always go home. ”
Uh huh. So we’re America, Land of the FO@D and the Home of the Door Slammed In Your Face, right?
“That pretty much invalidates everything else you said, Jay.”
Please, by all means, send a letter to the GOP and ask them to keep running with that ‘they’ll just self-deport’ rhetoric in 2014 and 2016. Please, please throw me in that briar patch, B’rer Fox.
Jay
February 21st, 2013
5:32 pm
No, “time,” it does not.
Those people were all but invited here, to work and live and raise families, through nonexistent border enforcement and nonexistent workplace enforcement. Many politicians who today are the loudest foes of immigration reform used to be the loudest advocates of lax enforcement. This whole “they broke the law” argument is hypocritical in the extreme.
Brosephus™
February 21st, 2013
5:35 pm
A Simple Man
Yet you click into this site, read, and respond. Pavlov Dog much?
BOHICA
February 21st, 2013
5:35 pm
Jay, I think what a lot of thinking Republican understand that we need imigration reform. I think that the Pres. knows this and is tempted to continue to outflank the Republian position (the presidents proposal supposedly has little border enforcement provisions) on this to extract further political gain. I think the President is willing to sacrifice genuine bipartisan reform in order to make the Republicans that support reform look bad. Divide and Conquer and further marginalize the Republicans rather than have reform.
td
February 21st, 2013
5:36 pm
Define what pathway to citizenship means in the poll? Does it mean what Rubio says and it is a 3 or 4 step process, paying fines, paying back taxes and still getting into the back of the line (after the border is totally shut down and the visa issue is resolved) or is it immediate amnesty and citizenship as many on the left wants?
josef
February 21st, 2013
5:36 pm
Let’s go ahead and get to the bottom line and be done with it…
Am A-ye-tli de-tsa-ya-da-ni-lv-ga!
Ka-na-gwo u-wo-ni-hi-s-di Tsa-la-gi!
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_-mu6dW4praY/TKPGKLeRcPI/AAAAAAAAbdI/FbUkFzryTiY/s400/stop+the+illegals.jpg
Soothsayer
February 21st, 2013
5:37 pm
Redneck Convert: if you’re really nice to the Missus, I bet she’ll let you have one of these there in the doublewide . . .
Brosephus™
February 21st, 2013
5:37 pm
Jay
I don’t think he remembers the conservatives whining when INS was raiding Georgia like the Ghost of Sherman.
RB from Gwinnett
February 21st, 2013
5:38 pm
As was stated, they already have a path to citizenship. This 23% garbage is merely a factor of how the questions were asked, which, of course, Jay never provides. Context matters.
So, what happens when the illegals who will do the work our “less fortunate” won’t do decide they’d rather have a cushy desk job with air conditioning and 5 weeks of vacation? Do you think the farmers will pay people more to pick crops and simply make less money, pay more and charge more, or will farmers in other parts of the world push them off the store shelves because their product will be less expensive (and thus force the farmer to file for bankruptcy).
How about the home builder? Think he’ll just make less money or will home prices go up accordingly and no longer be within reach of another layer of our society? You know, like they have in Europe.
josef
February 21st, 2013
5:41 pm
JAY
@ 5:42
Yep.
Paul
February 21st, 2013
5:41 pm
Like I said, nearly 100% of the 23% end up on Jay’s blog….
Jay, you gotta have a weird cosmic aura or something.
Jay
February 21st, 2013
5:42 pm
td, in both polls, respondents were asked whether they supported a path to citizenship, a path to citizenship plus stricter enforcement, or simply stricter enforcement with no path to citizenship.
Roughly a quarter chose stricter enforcement with no path to citizenship.
barking frog
February 21st, 2013
5:42 pm
Just give the Mexican and Canadian, undocumented and those awaiting entry,
work visas and leave the rest of the immigration laws in place. Is that so hard ?
Aquagirl
February 21st, 2013
5:42 pm
illegal immigrants are not trapped by law in that role. They can always go home.
And dodge bullets paid for by Americans. Frackin’ ingrates.
barking frog
February 21st, 2013
5:45 pm
josef
Is Ra El ?
JamVet
February 21st, 2013
5:47 pm
With Latino friends like Ann Coulter, Herman Cain, Mitt Romney and countless others in the xenophobic right wing, who needs enemies?!
But it is all good.
The suicidally anti-Hispanic Republicans have likely lost the Latino vote for at least a generation. Perhaps for much longer.
Which will have one major consequence.
Many more GOP defeats on election day…
комиссар (Occupation)
February 21st, 2013
5:49 pm
Jay, something tells me you’ll have been wasting your time with “time”.
“Those people were all but invited here, to work and live and raise families, through nonexistent border enforcement and nonexistent workplace enforcement”
Not to mention the neoliberal free trade bonanza that opened the floodgates of capital across the borders, utterly transforming conditions of life south of the border and leaving millions of workers in places like Mexico without a traditional source of livelihood and at the mercy of a tide of corporate competition, with little option but to head north for better work opportunities.
GT
February 21st, 2013
5:50 pm
Labor has been the hole in the tire of about every industry in the country. It would seem to me if you don’t want the labor here you go to the labor. Textiles left decades ago, manufacturing is leaving. What the US is finding is the Chinese who have cheap labor now just reach into our computers and grab the recipe to go with the product and cook it in their own country, with their own cooks. All these important self made man that did it all by yourselves, you are going to find out how much this country did to make you who you are as it disappears from you.
The one thing this country has is freedom and hope, for all citizens and a beacon for the tired, the poor, the masses. With the right’s vision which is kin to Ray Charles’ they can get their wish. No one is going to want to come here, the illegal immigrate will go with the dinosaur. When you become as mean and petty as the rest of the world and the jobs and the intellectual properties are in the rest of the world, our show is over. The right’s total strategy is the belief that the middle and left will stop them, like a person trying to get their way faking suicide. We can’t rescue this nation every quarter, like a mutating virus eventually the right will accidently get their way and then it is over for all of us. Just a bunch of old white guys in ghost towns, land too polluted to farm, water to dirty to drink, no jobs, what a vision.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 21st, 2013
5:50 pm
Brosephus — “Pavlov Dog much?”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8zuqsqdCAQ
Soothsayer
February 21st, 2013
5:50 pm
Damned Chinese hackers!
Logical Dude
February 21st, 2013
5:51 pm
I think “pathway to citizenship” means they don’t have to fear for being deported just for existing without proper paperwork.
Also, less wasted money thrown at tracking down people who just want to work and live in the greatest country in the world.
Also, provide proper paperwork, so they can pay taxes and stuff – more revenue for the country!
Gee. a system that creates more revenue, saves money, and makes people happy. . . why is ANYONE against that?
That Black Guy
February 21st, 2013
5:51 pm
“We use Mexicans in our work,” Ed Toomey, a building contractor in Goodlatte’s Virginia congressional district, told NPR, “and, you know, they’re fine people. But there has to be a law. They have to abide by the rules, like everybody else.”
Those rules of course include rules against the hiring of illegal immigrants.
___________________________________________
Jay, he didn’t say he uses “illegal immigrants” in his work. he said “We use Mexicans in our work,” .
Are you saying that all Mexicans are *illegal immigrants”? Your last statement in response to Mr. Toomy suggests that.
Am I wrong?
detritusUSA
February 21st, 2013
5:53 pm
I’m a liberal in most instances, but I’m against immigration reform that doesn’t close the borders first. We cannot take in the population of the world just because we have a really good country to live in. The 1986 amnesty did nothing but invite the problem we now have, so we should learn from our mistake.
We have enough illegals from south of the border selling drugs and driving drunk and committing other crimes. For the sake of future generations, lets close the border first and then talk about a path to citizenship for the illegals.
Moderate Line
February 21st, 2013
5:54 pm
That’s strikes a powerful chord for me. At one time in our history, we did have a class of people with no option but the hardest, dirtiest jobs, people who were trapped by law in that role. One hundred and fifty years ago, we fought a war to end that system
++++
You are comparing people who came here involuntarily on ships where many of them died and the ancestors to people who are here voluntarily here. Also African-Americans if they tried to leave could be arrested and brought back or killed while unauthorized immigrants can go back when they want. I don’t see any comparison except in the case of those who came here as children.
There are over two million eligible people who can immigrate here legally under the family preferences category but we only allow 350,000 spaces available each year.
Sons and daughters of US citizens take six years
For brother and sisters of US citizens the wait is 12-15 years.
I believe if we are going to reform immigration for people who are not authorized to be here then we should also reform immigration for the people who are trying to get here properly. Also, who knows how many unauthorized immigrants fall into these categories. Perhaps it would be more generally accepted if this was done under a much broader reform which did not seem to be pandering to a particular group for votes.
http://www.litwinlaw.com/CM/Articles/How-Long-Immigrate.asp
Brosephus™
February 21st, 2013
5:56 pm
JHM
Stop that!!!!! You’re gonna make me wake the baby.
In all seriousness, comments like that strike me as a Pavlovian reaction as opposed to actual thought. If Jay is really that predictable, why keep coming back and whining about it?
Logical Dude
February 21st, 2013
5:57 pm
detritusUSA: close the border first and then talk about a path to citizenship for the illegals
So, you’d like a police state before actually helping people? Because to “close the border” that’s basically what would need to be done.
I’d prefer a country that has particular freedoms, and if that risk is more people want to come here, then that’s a risk I’m willing to take. I’d rather them have paperwork and get taxed on their work, than to be paid substandard wages, live in substandard conditions, and hassled by employers, l’amigra, and xenophobes who stereotype them in the worst possible light.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 21st, 2013
5:58 pm
M. Line — “Perhaps it would be more generally accepted if this was done under a much broader reform which did not seem to be pandering to a particular group for votes.”
Exactly whose votes do you think are being pandered for?
TM
February 21st, 2013
5:58 pm
it appears we have a lot of jobs legals don’t want to do, just another reason to cut unemployment benefits
weetamoe
February 21st, 2013
6:00 pm
It is clear that you are no Bill Buckley, who, in an aside here, lived in Mexico as a child. Just wondering. What happened to Nikki, the *illegal* who worked for Meg Whitman for a number of years in CA without telling Whitman of her status? Jerry Brown, who was CA AG and running against Whitman for governor ferreted out the information and used it in the campaign. Did he ever enforce the law against Nikki? That is, did he do his job.He did benefit from her defiance of the law at the time, didn’t he?
Joe Hussein Mama
February 21st, 2013
6:03 pm
Brosephus — “In all seriousness, comments like that strike me as a Pavlovian reaction as opposed to actual thought. If Jay is really that predictable, why keep coming back and whining about it?”
We’re totally in agreement on that. I asked K71 earlier today why he keeps coming back here if he’s only going to be negative, hateful and insulting. He knows what kind of discussion he’s liable to get here, so knowing that, why does he bother to keep coming back.
And FYI from the right-wing nut-o-sphere, Free Republic has been down since at least last Sunday morning. And the regulars are starting to ask what the hell their donations are going toward since the whole shebang is run by two brothers who apparently just rent server space and don’t actually do any of the actual tech work themselves. I predict that the regular donors are going to want to do some sort of checkbook procto exam on Freep if and when it ever comes back up.
Discussion is, so far, polite on the Freep Facebook page. But it’s getting ug-lee on other righty sites. Just thought you’d like to know.
I’m out; taking a long weekend. Seeya sometime next week.
Brosephus™
February 21st, 2013
6:03 pm
detritusUSA
You can’t physically close down open space without dramatically changing our society. Our borders are open by design because that’s how the business and money class wants it. For example, look at how just-in-time shipping has done away with warehousing costs. Multinational companies need easy crossing for their employees to move about.
——————–
Moderate Line
That’s where I think reform should be targeted.
Moderate Line
February 21st, 2013
6:04 pm
I think where the right is the most out of line is on tax increases. The Pew research poll shows 76% of the people favor a combination of spending cuts and tax increases. 19% want spending cuts and 3% want tax increases.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/02/21/poll-pew-obama-gop-guns-energy-immigration-sequester/1934233/
JamVet
February 21st, 2013
6:04 pm
Secure the border?
How exactly?
With an electrified fence powerful enough to kill human beings and with armed guards instructed to shoot to kill, like that brave Civil Rights hero, Herman Cain suggested?
Until the GOP stops pandering to the many racists in their ranks, they are going to keep on marching down the road to extinction.
And though they don’t need any help, I’m willing to give them a road map…
Moderate Line
February 21st, 2013
6:04 pm
Brosephus™
February 21st, 2013
6:03 pm
detritusUSA
You can’t physically close down open space without dramatically changing our society. Our borders are open by design because that’s how the business and money class wants it. For example, look at how just-in-time shipping has done away with warehousing costs. Multinational companies need easy crossing for their employees to move about.
+++++++++
Good point.
josef
February 21st, 2013
6:05 pm
FROG
As Unmentionable says, just sit tight for a 175 or so years, and it won’t be an issue anymore, will it?
GT
February 21st, 2013
6:05 pm
detritusUSA you are seeing nothing but what you are told and that is always negative. I can promise you not every immigrate is a drug dealer, and no one is inviting that into the country anyway. A huge amount of these people are church going Catholics who believe in marriage and family.
My thought is we trade some of our citizens we have now for some of theirs. We could start with Newt and his trail of wives, the problem is the other countries wouldn’t want the problems their immoral souls would bring. We are the lucky ones we are getting fresh blood that still believes in values we have loss as a nation. The reason they are drug dealers is this country buys drugs, users everywhere. If we weren’t using they wouldn’t have a market.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 21st, 2013
6:06 pm
weetamoe — “Did he ever enforce the law against Nikki? That is, did he do his job.He did benefit from her defiance of the law at the time, didn’t he?”
Just FYI, immigration enforcement is a Federal matter, not a state one. Therefore, immigration offenses aren’t for a state AG to prosecute (setting aside the matter that the vast majority of immigration offenses aren’t even criminal in nature).
Orange13
February 21st, 2013
6:06 pm
Jay, Sure legalize them all and then ramp up that enforcement. You remember, just like the Gov did for the 1986 amnesty. That worked out well didn’t it. It’s going to be the same old song and dance this time also.
Moderate Line
February 21st, 2013
6:07 pm
Moderate Line
February 21st, 2013
6:04 pm
Brosephus™
February 21st, 2013
6:03 pm
detritusUSA
You can’t physically close down open space without dramatically changing our society. Our borders are open by design because that’s how the business and money class wants it. For example, look at how just-in-time shipping has done away with warehousing costs. Multinational companies need easy crossing for their employees to move about.
+++++
Borders are the same as regulations. The impede business transaction. Also, business doesn’t care about where your from as long as they can make a buck off of you.
barking frog
February 21st, 2013
6:07 pm
josef
Tzipi is Justice Minister if the coalition is formed.
Brosephus™
February 21st, 2013
6:09 pm
Enjoy JHM!! Didn’t know that about Freep since it’s been a minute since I last perused that site.
Look before I leap...
February 21st, 2013
6:09 pm
“We have enough illegals from south of the border selling drugs and driving drunk and committing other crimes.”
Got quite a few citizens doing exactly the same thing–what’s your point?
josef
February 21st, 2013
6:09 pm
Moderate
Oh, we’ve just cleaned it up a bit, thass all…progress, doncha know…
JamVet
February 21st, 2013
6:11 pm
The GOP risks being relegated to being a minority party for years if it fails to find a way to make the connection with Latino voters… ~Mel Martinez
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzE227yE1hk
josef
February 21st, 2013
6:13 pm
FROG
Haven’t seen anything yet on the proposed portfolios…who’s up for Foreign Minister and Defense Minister?
Aquagirl
February 21st, 2013
6:13 pm
it appears we have a lot of jobs legals don’t want to do
I can’t imagine anyone passing up the opportunity to drive out to the boonies and dig onions for 38 cents a bucket a few weeks out of the year. Why let a family, regular job, or other humdrum incidentals stop you from this moneymaking opportunity?
Brosephus™
February 21st, 2013
6:13 pm
Moderate @ 6:07
Couldn’t have stated that any better. That’s why companies are profiting and the stocks are rising. They don’t care where the profit comes from as long as it’s coming.
barking frog
February 21st, 2013
6:17 pm
josef
the article I read didn’t say, only that Tzipi and her
party would join the coalition with her as justice minister
and hoped that would help other parties to join.
Rabbit
February 21st, 2013
6:19 pm
23% is not enough to establish a majority party. The south may be left behind, but the Republican party will change. It may not be in 2014, even in 2016, but it will change.
JamVet
February 21st, 2013
6:20 pm
The Democrats have hardly been a Latino friendly bunch themselves, but once again, as on a wide array of issues, the GOP is SO abysmal that the Dems win by default.
Well take heart, Republicans. Thanks to Reagan and his death squads, at least there are a whole lot less Central Americans to sneak in…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7vCww3j2-w
josef
February 21st, 2013
6:21 pm
FROG
Not a bad deal she’d be getting…not enough blat’ for Foreign Minister.
I strongly suspect, though, that once Bibi and Barack take out Iran, this government will fall and new elections wll be called.
Orange13
February 21st, 2013
6:23 pm
Look,
“Got quite a few citizens doing exactly the same thing–what’s your point?”
You are correct. Here’s an example to prove your point.
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/cops-athens-man-stopped-with-300k-in-cocaine/nWWcM/
Dave
February 21st, 2013
6:27 pm
Oh wow. I read the headline and planned to say something along the lines of guest workers are fine, why grant illegals citizenship as long as we treat them okay, blah, blah. And then I read what the good GOP folks had to say. I was just that close to agreeing with a Republican position and they were stupid enough to pull back the curtain.
josef
February 21st, 2013
6:28 pm
ORANGE
Where does that link mention his citizenship, land of birth, immigration status or what have you?
His name is Saul Silva…he may been one of them Jewboys from that South Carolina family that’s been here since the 1680s…
td
February 21st, 2013
6:30 pm
If you read these polls closely then there are 25% mostly progressives that want open boarders and make everyone that comes here a citizens with no consequences and then you have 25% far right conservatives that say ship them all back and shut down the boarder. 47% are somewhere in between those two points of view.
IMHO, there is just as much risk for the left as the right on this issue because I do not think a large majority of those 47% are willing to look kindly on continued open borders and no penalties for the illegals that have come.
Orange13
February 21st, 2013
6:32 pm
Josef,
Did I say he wasn’t an American citizen? All I was pointing out is Look’s making his argument that American citizens are doing the same thing as some illegal aliens.
F. Sinkwich
February 21st, 2013
6:33 pm
“Rep. Phil Gingrey (R-Ga.) is planning to run for the Georgia Senate seat being vacated by Sen. Saxby Chambliss (R), senior GOP strategists in the state told The Hill. “I´ve just talked to two people that told me Phil Gingrey is actually calling them telling them he´s going to run and his staff is telling people he´ll probably make his announcement sometime next week,” said Tom Perdue, a top Georgia Republican strategist who is close to Chambliss.”
What’s the Dem smear on this guy?
Jerry Eads
February 21st, 2013
6:33 pm
We have met the enemy and he is us – Pogo via Walt Kelly. We elect these trolls at odds with our wishes. How do we do that?
josef
February 21st, 2013
6:35 pm
ORANGE
Same question. Where does it say he was a citizen?
But,,,as Unmnetionable says, he is ciminally swarthy…
Bernie
February 21st, 2013
6:38 pm
The Stupid Party still have there Heads in very Dark places. The Kool-aid is stil being passed around and they are loving it. Wit until the 2014 midterms and watch their UGLY faces turn all sour as if they have been sucking on LEMON. Wondering what happened?
The Burial of The Republican Party will be just after the Midturn elections. All are welcome…the dress will be casual attire. Come as you are!
TM
February 21st, 2013
6:40 pm
According to Obama we are about to lay off 800.00 from the DOD, these people need jobs so let get rid of those who are here illegally taking thes jobs
josef
February 21st, 2013
6:40 pm
ORANGE
“Pearl police spokesman Butch Townsend said Silva was traveling on I-20 east of Jacksonville ”
Of course, given the AJC’s manifest command of geography, who knows…
barking frog
February 21st, 2013
6:41 pm
josef
a distinct possibility….
Doggone/GA
February 21st, 2013
6:41 pm
“According to Obama we are about to lay off 800.00 from the DOD, these people need jobs so let get rid of those who are here illegally taking thes jobs”
The report *I* heard said furlough, not lay off. To the tune of 1 day a week for 22 weeks at the last report I heard.
Doggone/GA
February 21st, 2013
6:43 pm
“Of course, given the AJC’s manifest command of geography, who knows…”
Well, there IS a Jacksonville, GA that is a bit north of I20, and I20 does continue east past that point.
josef
February 21st, 2013
6:46 pm
DOGGONE
Yeah. Furlough’s. The new gotcha!
In the middle
February 21st, 2013
6:46 pm
I want to be an illegal.
getalife
February 21st, 2013
6:47 pm
That mccain town hall represented the 23 % pretty well.
Not no but hell no.
Look before I leap...
February 21st, 2013
6:47 pm
Not sure what Orange was intimating.
Might be he thinks the boy looks Mexican
Silva is Portuguese
Camacho is Spanish
Saul is Hebrew and means “asked for”
bman.
February 21st, 2013
6:47 pm
“The report *I* heard said furlough, not lay off. To the tune of 1 day a week for 22 weeks at the last report I heard”
In many cases, this is probably a good idea.
Doggone/GA
February 21st, 2013
6:48 pm
“Yeah. Furlough’s. The new gotcha!”
Slow motion layoff?
Doggone/GA
February 21st, 2013
6:49 pm
“I want to be an illegal.”
Easy. Renounce your citizenship and then don’t leave
indigo
February 21st, 2013
6:49 pm
Occupation – 5:15 “don’t you call yourself a…conservative)
No, I don’t.
I am a Democratic centrist.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 21st, 2013
6:49 pm
“People have to stop employing illegal immigrants.”
Hillary Clinton
Well, there you go. Problem solved.
barking frog
February 21st, 2013
6:50 pm
in the middle
I want to be an illegal
………………………………………….
many are called, few are chosen…
Doggone/GA
February 21st, 2013
6:51 pm
“In many cases, this is probably a good idea.”
From the point of view of the work to be done, yes it is. Better than leaving the office empty. And I guess, in a bad situation, it’s better than being outright laid off…but it’s a significant cut in pay and a lot of people might be in danger of losing their homes…if their mortgage companies decide to be hard-nosed about things.
Mr_B
February 21st, 2013
6:51 pm
“What’s the Dem smear on this guy?”
Gingrey doesn’t need smearing. He does that to himself by talking.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 21st, 2013
6:51 pm
P.S.
What does this have to do with MARTA or charter schools in Georgia ???
In the middle
February 21st, 2013
6:51 pm
Doggone/GA – Sounds like a plan.. ..
Look before I leap...
February 21st, 2013
6:52 pm
“Well, there IS a Jacksonville, GA that is a bit north of I20, and I20 does continue east past that point.”
The guy is in Rankin county jail – Part of Jackson, MS is in Rankin Cty.
But I had the same thought when I read to article – Jacksonville is in FL and I-10, not I-20.
BMW SUV – hmmm Running coke must pay well. Either that or the kid’s boss is out a buncha blow AND an expensive car.
Doggone/GA
February 21st, 2013
6:52 pm
“Doggone/GA – Sounds like a plan.. ”
Don’t forget to let us know how it works out.
indigo
February 21st, 2013
6:53 pm
joseph – 5:16
Yes, we ARE overcrowded.
And no, those illegals with “skills needed for infrastructural repair” are, for the most part, not doing that kind of work.
And, yes legal Americans would do that “hard day’s work” if paid a proper wage.
josef
February 21st, 2013
6:54 pm
LOOK
Silva is also Spanish.
Both the name Silva AND the name Camacho are typical Sephardic names, sort of our Greenberg and Goldberg. It’s a fairly common practice among marranos from the Southwest to give their children a traditional Hebrew name. That’s what struck me when I first read his name. He may be one of them folks what came illegally to Santa Fe in 1610…
F. Sinkwich
February 21st, 2013
6:55 pm
“Gingrey doesn’t need smearing. He does that to himself by talking.”
Thanks for the illumination.
barking frog
February 21st, 2013
6:56 pm
Doggone/GA
http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html
the renunciation would have to be in a foreign country….
F. Sinkwich
February 21st, 2013
6:58 pm
“An Ohio woman filed a $25,000 lawsuit against her employer, alleging she was fired for voting for President Obama. Patricia Kunkle of Kettering, Ohio, claimed that Dayton-based Q-Mark, Inc., threatened to fire employees of the defense contractor if Obama won re-election, with the president’s supporters to be the first to receive pink slips, the Dayton Daily News reported.”
*sniff*
Too bad I can’t be on the jury.
Doggone/GA
February 21st, 2013
6:59 pm
“But I had the same thought when I read to article – Jacksonville is in FL and I-10, not I-20″
But I10 does not go east of Jacksonville. I don’t actually even know what story it’s all about, it’s just that “Jacksonville” and “I20″ caught my eye, because I’ve been through that town and knew it was close to I20. However, it’s not in a Rankin County. There are actually 2 Jacksonvilles in GA…one in Greene County and one in Taliaferro County.
But Jax in Fl isn’t in Rankin County either…it’s in Duval County.
A Simple Man
February 21st, 2013
7:01 pm
@Bro
Did I hit close to home? I read Jay, and even agree sometimes. I watch MSNBC. Can’t take the Fox morning group. If I didn’t people would complain that I’m a brainwashed Fox zombie. But, I do find it interesting the topics that are discussed. Don’t you?
Doggone/GA
February 21st, 2013
7:01 pm
“the renunciation would have to be in a foreign country”
Ok, then he’ll have to be illegal just like any other “illegal” and sneak back in.
Look before I leap...
February 21st, 2013
7:01 pm
Josef,
Weren’t marranos Jews who inhabited Iberia?
josef
February 21st, 2013
7:02 pm
DOGGONE
Slow motion layoff! THAT is going into my repertoire for a meeting coming up dealing with this issue…thanks
indigo
87 persons per square mile is far from overcrowded….
LOOK
DON’T tell folks from Jackson any of Rankin County is in Jackson…not if you want to keep your teeth where G-d put them!
In the middle
February 21st, 2013
7:05 pm
Just got hired by a foreign company yesterday. I will work in the US for an offshore company. Wait-isnt that backwords. Companies stay here and jobs go overseas not companies are overseas and jobs come here. Oh well.
St Simons - he-ne-ha
February 21st, 2013
7:05 pm
yeah, we smoked it over the peace pipe, and we decided,
there ain’t enough monay in all the casinos to send 300mil back.
Tip your waitress, I’m here all week, statements are done heheh
Look before I leap...
February 21st, 2013
7:06 pm
I’ll keep that in mind Josef.
Only been to Jackson MS twice. Nice people but the city seemed a bit frayed at the edges.
Paul
February 21st, 2013
7:07 pm
indigo
“And, yes legal Americans would do that “hard day’s work” if paid a proper wage.”
I wonder how high that has to be. Just got an Angie’s List catalog (it’s a subscription service that lists businesses in various categories with ratings heavily weighted towards customer satisfaction). Mrs. Paul was looking thru it and noted one in which the (roofing) business owner wrote: “Please send me people interested in working. For over a year, since the crackdown on immigrants, I’ve had worker vacancies. We pay $50,000 a year plus benefits. We pay a good wage for no experience, will train and get the person up to top pay levels.”
I remarked “yeah, and Americans are just lined up to do the work illegals are doing…”
josef
February 21st, 2013
7:10 pm
LOOK
Marronos are those (and their descendents) who were forced to convert but continued to practice Judaism in private. A considerable number of them came to the New World. Their goal was to get as far from the Inquisition as possible, There are significant communities descended from the first settlers in San Antonio, Corpus Christi and especially New Mexico. Though many still used the term themselves, it is in origins a slur, meaning pig. The proper term is Anusim insofar as halakha is concerned
Tom Middleton
February 21st, 2013
7:10 pm
The best way to kill the American dream of freedom for all, is to start denying freedom to those working to be free.
How many times have we heard “death to America” over the years, but for the life of us could not understand why?
I mean, get a clue, people, or go on building your useless bunkers; for at five percent of the world’s population, we are going to lose!
bman.
February 21st, 2013
7:11 pm
Paul .. .. I saw an ad on craigslist that said “earn $1,000’s per week. A simple 4 week training
Look before I leap...
February 21st, 2013
7:12 pm
@ Indigo
The US is ranked 172nd in terms of population density.
But going through Hartsfield on a Monday morning, I can see where you might think we would be higher on the list.
Jackie
February 21st, 2013
7:12 pm
The effects of the fiscal cliff on DoD will be profound. It is ironic that the effects will affect California and specifically the district of Rep. Issa(R-CA) most profoundly.
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/dec/29/fiscal-cliff-industries-serving-military-would/
Moderate Line
February 21st, 2013
7:15 pm
josef
February 21st, 2013
6:09 pm
Moderate
Oh, we’ve just cleaned it up a bit, thass all…progress, doncha know…
++++
I am sorry but I am missing your point.
Brosephus™
February 21st, 2013
7:15 pm
Doggone @ 6:51
I’m thinking about calling my mortgage, utility, and credit card companies to see if they’ll allow me to furlough my payments to them for the duration of my furlough. I doubt they’ll like that idea nearly as much as people want me furloughed.
Look before I leap...
February 21st, 2013
7:16 pm
Thanks for filling in the gaps Josef.
I only knew of the term marrano from my study of the Spanish Inquisition (nasty times indeed).
I am completely ignorant when it comes to halakhah (Christian law is so much more amusing).
arnold
February 21st, 2013
7:17 pm
“But there has to be a law. They have to abide by the rules, like everybody else” Whose law? The right wing nut case’s law, or a law based on humanity?
arnold
February 21st, 2013
7:18 pm
josef
February 21st, 2013
7:10 pm
There are many also in South America.
Look before I leap...
February 21st, 2013
7:19 pm
@Bro
The mortgage companies and utilities are much more likely to work with you.
Check the credit card issuers you have and see if they offer Income Protection plans.
If so – apply NOW – they don’t work after the fact.
You can always cancel later.
Fingers crossed for you man.
Paul
February 21st, 2013
7:20 pm
bman
If you’d like I’ll send you the roofing business owner’s name and his phone number/address and you can speak to him and determine if his established roofing company is a scam.
josef
February 21st, 2013
7:20 pm
LOOK
It depends on what part of town you’re in. It’s nickname is “Chimneyville” so named for what was left after it was torched during the Wah-uh. It grew slowly until the mid-twentieth Century, so it’s missing a lot of what went into making a city. It is a bit raggedy because in that growth spurt that came in the emphasis was more on getting housing than in architecture. It does, though, have some really spectacular art deco buildings. The last few decades have seen the urban flight to the suburbs, and they are built up around the small towns which were never much to begin with…so it is a patchwork and decidedly frayed around the edges…It has some real treasures, but you have to go looking for them.
Pearl and Rankin County ain’t one of those treasures!
Jack ®
February 21st, 2013
7:21 pm
Close the flaming border. If you are so concerned about the plight of the illegals, go there and adopt as many as you please to be part of your family: Put your oh-so-righteous pandering where your mouth is.This puke-inducing liberal piety is not going to convince anyone of your sincerity.
Paul
February 21st, 2013
7:22 pm
Jackie 7:12
Karma -
Orange13
February 21st, 2013
7:22 pm
If and when the illegal population do become legal a high percentage if them will have dual citizenship.
dixie normous
February 21st, 2013
7:22 pm
The left simply does not understand the world we live in.
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.
dixie normous
February 21st, 2013
7:24 pm
The country is already broke and liberal loons want to add millions more to welfare. How stupid is that?
Jackie
February 21st, 2013
7:24 pm
I wonder if Rep. Issa(R-CA) will be tossed out of office in 2014 because of the votes he has cast to implement the fiscal cliff?
Look before I leap...
February 21st, 2013
7:25 pm
“Close the flaming border.”
That is the 5th time I’ve seen that phrase today. And how exactly do you plan to do that (providing an estimated cost would be nice too).
Don’t rant so hard dude – gonna give yourself an ulcer.
dixie normous
February 21st, 2013
7:25 pm
all the left sees is votes. They want power. But they will have no power if things continue. There will be no country to control. You are flushing America down the toilet and are too stupid to see it.
getalife
February 21st, 2013
7:26 pm
The 23% shows the gop base is shrinking.
When you are dead wrong all the time you lose voters.
Moving forward as promised.
That helps to gain voters.
Jackie
February 21st, 2013
7:26 pm
The USA is broke?
http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/economy/news/2011/03/21/9347/were-not-broke/
dixie normous
February 21st, 2013
7:27 pm
Jackie, obama threatened to veto any bills that did not include sequestration. He demanded it. He got it. Now he owns it.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 21st, 2013
7:27 pm
Jay:
In addition to the articles about Christians who have been jailed in Lybia, this would make a good blog:
“Christians and human rights advocates are alarmed over an aggressive crackdown on house churches in China, where the faithful are forced to call their gatherings “patriotic” assemblies or sent to prison where they can face torture, according to a new report.
Cases of the government persecuting Christians rose 42 percent last year, amid a three-phase plan by Beijing to eradicate the home-based churches, according to China Aid, a Texas-based human rights group”
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/02/21/christians-house-churches-in-china-see-erious-escalation-persecution-report/#ixzz2LaDJEjNd
WHAT SAY YE?
Look before I leap...
February 21st, 2013
7:28 pm
“The country is already broke”
Really? My government check cleared today no problem.
josef
February 21st, 2013
7:29 pm
arnold
Particularly in the Medellin Valley of Colombia and Costa Rica actually was first settled by them and the tradition is very much part of the CR national cultural identity. The Talamanca Indians refer to any non Indian Costa Rican as a judio. When the non marrono Jews began to immigrate to Costa Rica in the late 1800s and established their own religious traditions, most of them came from Poland and were referred to as polacos. The common word in use today for “Jews” is polaco. There were some great quips that came about when Pope John Paul visited Costa Rica,,,
Jackie
February 21st, 2013
7:29 pm
@dixie
Maybe you should look at what was said and who has the power to demand the US House of Representatives follow their edicts?
Surely, you do not believe the President can order the House to do what he demands!
dixie normous
February 21st, 2013
7:29 pm
Jackie, American Progress? Seriously? You believe what those fools tell you. We are not broke? You cannot be that naive. Open up your eyes.
dixie normous
February 21st, 2013
7:30 pm
Jackie, who signed sequestration into law? The House? LOL You probably believe that.
getalife
February 21st, 2013
7:31 pm
The gop are divided, conquered and in basic survival mode.
They will cave on the cuts and pass immigration to try to survive.
Jackie
February 21st, 2013
7:31 pm
@dixie
Here is a post from your single source of information, FOX!
http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/4576537/is-the-us-really-broke-/
dixie normous
February 21st, 2013
7:32 pm
People like Jackie can see obama demanding sequestration and then demand it themselves. Then several months later see him saying how bad sequestration is and then here they are. Hard to take two faced people seriously.
bman.
February 21st, 2013
7:32 pm
“If you’d like I’ll send you the roofing business owner’s name and his phone number/address and you can speak to him and determine if his established roofing company is a scam.”
One thing that there is no shortage for, and that’s scams. Maybe it’s not. Maybe it’s in NYC. All I did was share an ad I read.
In the middle
February 21st, 2013
7:32 pm
So, what if the average daily wage in Mexico was 10 times higher than the average daily wage in the US. You can just cross the border into Mexico, stay as long as you like and when you have made enough money you can go back to the US. I wonder how many US citizens would go accross the border and pick up trash for 10 times minimum wage. I would get 10 to 15 of my friends and family and we would all go down there together, split living expenses so we could keep the costs down and over the next 10 years make enough to retire comfortably in the US. Now that is a plan.
dixie normous
February 21st, 2013
7:33 pm
Jackie, who signed sequestration into law? Are you smart enough to know?
Paul
February 21st, 2013
7:34 pm
dixie
You have an interesting view of ‘illegals.’ You must not be in agriculture or meat packing or house or road construction or landscaping or a whole lot of other businesses.
If all these people do is come here to sit around and get welfare, who was doing the work before farmers began complaining they couldn’t find anyone to pick their crops?
dixie normous
February 21st, 2013
7:35 pm
Hrees my source Jackie. Red means broke
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
Look before I leap...
February 21st, 2013
7:35 pm
“You are flushing America down the toilet and are too stupid to see it.”
Air France Flt 43 (Delta codeshare 3301) leaves in 4 hours for Riyadh.
If you hurry you can just make it.
Right-wing Utopia there.
Pack a Burka
josef
February 21st, 2013
7:35 pm
LOOK
Theirs is a fascinating story, indeed. Many of them came to the South beginning at St. Agustine and really even before. They would ship into Havanah and then hit the highroad for the wild woolies of the backwoods where they were accepted by the Native populations. The DNA research on several of those enigmatic populations such as the Melungeons and the Redbones are showing a very strong presence of those markers associated with Sephardic Jews.
Moderate Line
February 21st, 2013
7:36 pm
josef
February 21st, 2013
7:02 pm
87 persons per square mile is far from overcrowded….
========
It depends on how much land is actually inhabitable. Russia has one of the lowest populations densities in the world but how much of it is actually inhabitable.
Paul
February 21st, 2013
7:37 pm
bman
You know perfectly well what your implication was. The discussion’s about illegals and work, a local businessman says he pays very good wages and can’t find people to apply, and you cite an ad about scams.
But we all know it’s illegals stealing jobs hard-working Americans would gladly take if they had the chance, right?
Jackie
February 21st, 2013
7:38 pm
@dixie
Apparently, you do not have an awareness of how your government works.
The sequestration was suggested by President Obama as a means of solving the stalemate in Congress. The Congress in turn voted to put an even number of Repubs and Dems on the committee, therefore, the stalemate remained.
And people like yourself find it hard to think past their eardrums and/or read information from sources that will dispel the MYTHS you seem to believe.
Orange13
February 21st, 2013
7:38 pm
“My government check cleared today no problem.”
There’s no such thing as a gov check anymore.
dixie normous
February 21st, 2013
7:39 pm
Air France Flt 43 (Delta codeshare 3301) leaves in 4 hours for Riyadh.
If you hurry you can just make it.
Right-wing Utopia there.
Pack a Burka
I prefer to stay right here and fight you for the survival of THIS country You are close but you havent destroyed it yet. We still have the House and should pick up the Senate next year, that will help.
Doggone/GA
February 21st, 2013
7:40 pm
“I doubt they’ll like that idea nearly as much as people want me furloughed.”
Bro, I agree…but they might be more amenable than you think. With housing only just beginning to recover…I don’t think they’re going to want even more empty homes on their hands if it can be avoided. They might be willing to drop your payments for the duration, with the understanding they would go up when you’re back on full employment. Sort of an interrum balloon payment sort of thing.
dixie normous
February 21st, 2013
7:41 pm
@dixie
Apparently, you do not have an awareness of how your government works.
The sequestration was suggested by President Obama as a means of solving the stalemate in Congress. The Congress in turn voted to put an even number of Repubs and Dems on the committee, therefore, the stalemate remained.
And people like yourself find it hard to think past their eardrums and/or read information from sources that will dispel the MYTHS you seem to believe.
I dont see the answer to my question. Jackie, who signed sequestration into law? It may take some courage but you can do it.
josef
February 21st, 2013
7:41 pm
arnold
Have you ever read Peruvian Isaac Goldemberg’s “La vida a plazos de don Jacobo Lerner” ?
and LOOK
Did you ever see “Lust in the Dust?” There’s a fascinating marrano theme in it…
Skip
February 21st, 2013
7:41 pm
$50,000 roofers, the economy must be roaring.
Doggone/GA
February 21st, 2013
7:41 pm
“Close the flaming border”
And that is impossible to do.
getalife
February 21st, 2013
7:43 pm
“And that is impossible to do.”
Especially when they cut their funding and furlough workers.
josef
February 21st, 2013
7:43 pm
MODERATE
In the United States, quite a bit of it is…our “problem” is more the overconcentration of our population in corridors…
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 21st, 2013
7:43 pm
Religious instruction is apparently o.k. in Calilfornia schools (unless it’s Christian based):
Wikipedia: “Yoga (Sanskrit, Pāli: योग, /ˈjəʊɡə/, yoga) is a commonly known generic term for physical, mental, and spiritual disciplines which originated in ancient India.[1][2] Specifically, yoga is one of the six āstika (”orthodox”) schools of Hindu philosophy. One of the most detailed and thorough expositions on the subject are the Yoga Sūtras of Patañjali. Various traditions of yoga are found in Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism.[3][4][5]”
Headline (ABC): “Yoga Lawsuit: Encinitas Union School District in California Sued Over Classes”
http://abcnews.go.com/US/yoga-lawsuit-encinitas-union-school-district-california-sued/story?id=18561237
Look before I leap...
February 21st, 2013
7:44 pm
“It depends on how much land is actually inhabitable”
With the exception of a large proportion of Alaska, virtually all of the US is inhabitable.
Some of it maybe isn’t paradise (in terms of temperature and scantily clad women serving cocktails in coconuts). All you need is arable land and water.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 21st, 2013
7:45 pm
P.S.
The sign in the background of the news photo says “Yoga cultivates character”.
Hummm …………. so just plain exercise/stretching cultivates “character” ???
Jackie
February 21st, 2013
7:45 pm
@dixie
Still believe in fairy tales?
My post indicating that FOX news refutes your contention.
Or, did you forget how to read?
bman.
February 21st, 2013
7:45 pm
Paul .. .. I don’t know if you’re in Georgia. If you are, I challenge you to locate any roof laborer making 50k….bonus pts in they are not a citizen.
Class of '98
February 21st, 2013
7:46 pm
Jay Bookman is not a fan of laws. He prefers mob rule.
Jackie
February 21st, 2013
7:47 pm
@dixie
The President of the United States has a duty to act on legislation passed by the Congress. Either he signs it or vetoes it.
Now, what is your point about who owns the sequestration?
Look before I leap...
February 21st, 2013
7:47 pm
“There’s no such thing as a gov check anymore.”
Direct deposit.
The colloquialism just worked better for me.
Doggone/GA
February 21st, 2013
7:47 pm
“Especially when they cut their funding and furlough workers”
Yep, especially
Look before I leap...
February 21st, 2013
7:49 pm
“Did you ever see “Lust in the Dust?” There’s a fascinating marrano theme in it…”
No I have not. My wife won’t let me watch Jewish porn.
(Sorry – that was pretty awful – could not resist.)
Paul
February 21st, 2013
7:50 pm
Skip
“$50,000 roofers, the economy must be roaring.”
Texas weathered the housing crisis pretty well. The Dallas area’s doing very well. The homes going up are pretty upscale. Plus, we regularly get hit by hailstorms necessitating whole or part roof replacements. We had ours done recently. Guy said to forget those 30 and 45 year shingles, as in a few years there’d be another hail storm and we’ll be replacing it again.
Jackie
February 21st, 2013
7:50 pm
@dixie
Another thing for you to read.
The sequestration laws signed by President Obama is a law designed to provide transparency about the effects of sequestration, not the sequestration in and of itself.
Now, what were you saying about who, what and where owns the law and the effects it will have on our economy?
http://fcw.com/articles/2012/08/07/obama-signs-sequestration-transparency-act.aspx
Look before I leap...
February 21st, 2013
7:51 pm
“I prefer to stay right here and fight you for the survival of THIS country”
By all means do.
Some friendly advice though – you will have a much better chance of winning any battles if you arm yourself with some facts and educate yourself.
Paul
February 21st, 2013
7:53 pm
bman
As I’ve noted occasionally, I live in the Dallas-Ft Worth metroplex.
josef
February 21st, 2013
7:53 pm
LOOK
If you ever get a chance, watch it! Divine at his best…and, well, it IS just short of porn!
Jackie
February 21st, 2013
7:53 pm
@dixie
I will give you all the time you need to come up with a plausible explanation, or, is that plausibly denial?
tiredofIT
February 21st, 2013
7:59 pm
Time to quit bitching about this issue. As long as the 1% wants them here, you are wasting time and energy.
bman.
February 21st, 2013
8:01 pm
“As I’ve noted occasionally, I live in the Dallas-Ft Worth metroplex.”
I lived and worked in Houston, TX (The Woodlands) for a few years. I went to Dallas, San Antonio, Austin- loved it all. IBut I never made it out west. I really enjoyed Texas, and met a lot of super nice people.
I dated 2 hispanic ladies there. They were not laborers…in fact, one couldn’t speak spanish.
Look before I leap...
February 21st, 2013
8:02 pm
“Divine at his best”
Divine: The drag queen from Hairspray?
indigo
February 21st, 2013
8:03 pm
dixie normous – 7:22
Are you saying that 50% of Americans think they do not have to work?
Jerome Horwitz
February 21st, 2013
8:15 pm
We need to hope St Simons and the original inhabitants of the desert Southwest, you know – the land we appropriated from Mexico, don’t smarten up and kick our posteriors back to Europe. Some people seem to forget that at one time or another we were all immigrants. Most of our ancestors were lucky that when the boat pulled up all you had to do was walk off. The Statue of Liberty must be crying tonight. But, that’s the new American Way – I got mine. F’ You.
Brosephus™
February 21st, 2013
8:17 pm
A Simple Man @ 7:01
Nope, you didn’t hit close to home at all. I just don’t understand why people do as you did. If I go to a blog, whether it’s left or right leaning, I don’t question the author on their choice of topics. If I don’t like the topic or message, I simply don’t post. If it’s something I want to discuss, then I’ll jump into the dialogue. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
——————
Look before and Doggone
My furlough comment was meant as part humor and part sarcasm. It didn’t translate nowhere near what I intended. My family will be ok, even with a new mouth to feed. Her food is free for the first 6 months thanks to Mother Nature. It won’t help the local businesses that I frequent though as I will be holding on to my cash much harder for a while.
Josef
February 21st, 2013
8:18 pm
LOOK
Same one…google it and check out the cast…and then pay attention to how many of them ran afoul of the Hollywood inquisition of the McCarthy era…the film is fun as all get out but underneath? Oh, my!!,
Josef
February 21st, 2013
8:20 pm
Jerome
Yep.
Recon 0311 2533
February 21st, 2013
8:27 pm
Democrats favor slave labor so long as the slaves vote Democrat. Something historic for Democrats, slaves that is.
Josef
February 21st, 2013
8:30 pm
Jerome
Just being my ancestrally uppity self here, but it never ceases to amaze me how so many want to do a “cut off” date on time of ” immigration.” Me? Oh, I say they had to have been here before 1792, the date of the last of mine to get here.
TaxPayer
February 21st, 2013
8:30 pm
So what’s the Republican’s latest unskewed polling data telling them. Don’t change a thing perhaps? After all, those Republican plans have worked so well so far. I mean, Republicans finally got part of the spending cuts that they wanted. Now if they can just get the rest of them along with another tax cut for the wealthiest, they should be just plain thrilled. Overjoyed even. Come on Republicans. You should be celebrating. You won. So how about acting like winners. Be happy.
Jackie
February 21st, 2013
8:30 pm
Sounds like there is a belief that only the “slaves” voted for the Dems.
Jerome Horwitz
February 21st, 2013
8:40 pm
Josef – Our family is a little more spread out ranging from 1710’s to 1904. Would like to think my two grand dads that were militia colonels would support others who want to make this country stronger.
Actually, we need the immigrants to support our aging butts by paying into SS – think the Delta’s allowing Flounder into the frat – “We need the dues”.
Doggone/GA
February 21st, 2013
8:41 pm
“Her food is free for the first 6 months thanks to Mother Nature”
I can be free for longer than that if need be. Nursing for even up to 3 years (not exclusively though) is not out of nature’s bounds, even if it is out of our social bounds.
I used to know a woman who had a very sickly son (not sure exactly what) but her doctor told her the longer she could nurse him the better for him and she nursed him supplementally until he was nearly 5.
Doggone/GA
February 21st, 2013
8:42 pm
“Democrats favor slave labor so long as the slaves vote Democrat.”
Keep up the good work…that’s going to attract a LOT of votes to your side
snicker
комиссар (Occupation)
February 21st, 2013
8:43 pm
Recon: “Democrats favor slave labor so long as the slaves vote Democrat.”
And Republicans don’t care how they vote either way, as they’re about taking away their voting rights or trying to limit them wherever possible.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 21st, 2013
8:45 pm
Democrats favor slave labor so long as the slaves vote Democrat. Something historic for Democrats, slaves that is.
I’d be careful posting this kind of stupidity. Commentary like this can lead to you being declared brain dead.
Recon 0311 2533
February 21st, 2013
8:47 pm
The Democrat party now enslaved by the extreme hard-left has focused the uninformed voters and now holds them captive along with their intellectually ideological captive as exposed on Jay’s blog. This latter group is blinded by leftist ideology, while the former grouping is convinced that a centralized federal government will provide them with cradle to grave financial care. Yes, the party of stupids.
JamVet
February 21st, 2013
8:48 pm
LOL…
Look before I leap...
February 21st, 2013
8:49 pm
“…she could nurse him the better for him and she nursed him supplementally until he was nearly 5.”
Well over 4 decades later, I am still a mite peeved that Dolly Parton is not my mother.
Brosephus™
February 21st, 2013
8:51 pm
Doggone
I think the first child made it to about 8mos or so. We’ve had foreigners feed their kids while going thru processing. I think the oldest I’ve seen is 2-3.
комиссар (Occupation)
February 21st, 2013
8:51 pm
Recon 666: “The Democrat party ..”
Oh? I’m not familiar with them. Please explain who this party is.
Brosephus™
February 21st, 2013
8:53 pm
Look before
Aren’t we all?
Orange13
February 21st, 2013
8:58 pm
Fox showed a clip that more or less portrays Obama’s Uncle as getting preferential treatment as far as immigration goes. I tend to agree with them. Maybe the system really is broken mainly by people not being able to do their job.
Look before I leap...
February 21st, 2013
9:04 pm
“… centralized federal government will provide them with cradle to grave financial care. Yes, the party of stupids.”
As the son of a USAF pilot I was born in a military hospital, my meals for the next 12 years came gratis of the federal government. The federal government also paid my college tuition via an ROTC scholarship and then provided my monthly paycheck for the 7 years after my graduation.
The US government is now one of my clients and therefore provides for a significant portion of my annual income even to this day. Were I to avail myself of it (which I do not) I am entitled to VA medical benefits as well as disability pay which I also do not take.
I won’t need nor will I apply for Social Security retirement benefits if and when I decide to stop working. The only thing I will ask for is a vault at a military cemetery for my ashes and those of my wife when I die.
Given that your handle indicates prior military service, I am both shocked and chagrined that you would make such a broad, sweeping and idiotic comment.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 21st, 2013
9:10 pm
Look before I leap… :
Your parents and/or you “earned” that for what they/you did.
It was not an “entitlement” or a “free handout”.
Look before I leap...
February 21st, 2013
9:12 pm
@Bro
Well glad to hear things aren’t dire yet.
Still – look at the Income Protection options. It is amazing what a few missed payments to Amex can do to your credit score.
My B-I-L and his wife are both in Arlington. He is retired Army (Special Forces) double-dipping at the Pentagon in a civvie role. She is with NSF. They are getting their numbers tomorrow but looks like 28 and 26 days furlough. OUCH!
Thulsa Doom
February 21st, 2013
9:18 pm
“Your parents and/or you “earned” that for what they/you did.
It was not an “entitlement” or a “free handout”.”
Scout,
Its a simple distinction really. But one that liberals are either unwilling or unable to make.
stands for decibels
February 21st, 2013
9:19 pm
even if comprehensive immigration reform makes it through the Senate, the odds of passage through the GOP-run House look extremely low.
There’s really no point in calling it the “House of Representatives.” because they’re not actually representing their districts. I really don’t know *what* to call these guys, except a-holes.
/drive-by
Thulsa Doom
February 21st, 2013
9:27 pm
“Fox showed a clip that more or less portrays Obama’s Uncle as getting preferential treatment as far as immigration goes”
Apparently he is in fact getting special treatment but I doubt the president had anything to do with it. Probably folks at the local level made the decision. The report said I think that a DUI while being an illegal is an automotic deportation. I dunno if that’s true or not. But the guy has been here 50 years I think they said. He’s pretty much an American so in my opinion it would be ridiculous to deport someone who has been here virtually his whole life because of a DUI. Besides, I have a soft spot for fellow hellraising drinkers. Not excusing the DUI. Just saying its still a misdemeanor and certainly not enough to warrant booting a man who has been here 50 years. That’s just plain wrong.
Look before I leap...
February 21st, 2013
9:32 pm
@0311
Thank you for telling me what I already know.
My point and perhaps it was a touch too oblique, is that to conclude that everyone in the Democratic party is a free-loading, money grubbing, worthless POS who only wants handouts from Uncle Sam without so much as a how’d ya do – is complete horse hockey.
Normally I am either amused by the stupidity of some of the morons here or just plain ignore it. But it is getting tiresome and old and now it ticks me off.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 21st, 2013
9:35 pm
Look before I leap…
I hear you ………… as long as you make the distinction.
Many in the Democrat Party are rich elites who want to spend someone else’s money.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 21st, 2013
9:36 pm
Thulsa @ 9:18
Exactly !
Buzzy
February 21st, 2013
9:38 pm
What happened to the GOP’s effort to reach out to all parts of society? I am after all, they really got creamed in the presidential election. Here we have a big NO to immigrants from the GOP, Log Cabin Republicans did not even get an invite to CPAC. I don’t something is going wrong with their “spin” and PR program.
The Republicans are their own worst enemies and I love it.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 21st, 2013
9:38 pm
Thulsa:
For example, there are a lot of “liberal” guys my age (of various ethncities) who are whining about their “old age future” and the government taking care of them.
Well, in 1966 they had a choice ………… and they made it. They could have served their country (and made a good career out of it if they chose) but they decided to stay home, go to school, be a hippie dippy bum or whatever. Not they need to live with that choice.
TBS
February 21st, 2013
9:39 pm
“Many in the Democrat Party are rich elites who want to spend someone else’s money.”
So glad that all Republicans are immune from all that. Aren’t you?
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 21st, 2013
9:39 pm
“The Republicans are their own worst enemies and I love it.”
Well then quit worrying about it.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 21st, 2013
9:40 pm
TBS:
As long as you recognize the hypocrisy ………… !!
deegee
February 21st, 2013
9:40 pm
I got a big kick out of the comment that Johnny Isakson made a couple of years ago when talking to a group of people about immigration reform. At that time he was in favor of some sort of 3 year guest worker program. When the 3 years were up they would have to leave because after all, the people that leave their country of origin shouldn’t be allowed to completely escape the socio-economic problems that drove them away in the first place. Then he waxed nostalgic about his Swedish grandparents that emigrated to the U.S. I wonder where Johnny would be now if his grandparents were told that they could come to the U.S., work for 3 years and then they would have to go back to Sweden and solve the potato famine problem themselves.
TBS
February 21st, 2013
9:41 pm
Scout
Why are you not calling out the conservatives that you willingly vote for each election? Many did the same as the liberals you cry about.
Your selective condemnation speaks volumes.
TBS
February 21st, 2013
9:42 pm
Yes Scout
I regonize your hypocrisy as well as others on a regular basis
Buzzy
February 21st, 2013
9:42 pm
It’s too fun to watch to leave it alone. The new Republican public relations program is a colossal FAIL. The tent is not getting bigger, it’s getting smaller and that means fewer Republican voters before long. Always a good thing.
Recon 0311 2533
February 21st, 2013
9:43 pm
I am both shocked and chagrined that you would make such a broad, sweeping and idiotic comment.
Did you serve and fight for our country? Were your disabilities a result of wounds incurred in combat? If so this country owes you whatever your needs require and far beyond. If not this country owes you nothing for your ROTC training but did owe your father for providing you a college education, that he earned for you, which you did not earn for yourself.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 21st, 2013
9:44 pm
TBS:
Ditto !
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 21st, 2013
9:45 pm
Recon:
My most halarious memories of my college days involves some of those guys who were FORCED to be in ROTC, do the classes, drills, uniform inspections, even get a decent haircut, etc.
It was a HOOT !
Disgusted
February 21st, 2013
9:46 pm
I wish that those who gripe about this country and its problems could have seen the pride on the face of the former Nigerian who serves as a nursing aide for my disabled wife as he announced tonight that he had completed the final hurdle to become a U. S. citizen. His stated first task for tomorrow morning was to go register to vote.
If others wanting to become citizens have only half of his pride and resolve, we don’t need to be debating the pathway to citizenship for immigrants.
TBS
February 21st, 2013
9:47 pm
“If so this country owes you whatever your needs require and far beyond.”
Crying shame that politicians of all stripes have voted to cut the needs of folks like yourself who have served this country. Wasn’t just Dems and libs. The last three Republican Presidents didn’t think much of the veterans based on their budgets.
thuggishNews
February 21st, 2013
9:49 pm
the cure for illegal immigrants is to all claim cuban citizenship when the arrive. that guarantees you instant legal status. i dont know why they are not using this trick. it worked so well now 2 of them are senators.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 21st, 2013
9:49 pm
TBS, the GOP sure did not think they owed first responders much in the way of support for their needs.
TBS
February 21st, 2013
9:50 pm
Recon
I do agree with you that those that served are owed whatever is needed and beyond. Just saying it just isn’t the “liberal” that has denied them that.
As always, thank Scout, you and others on this blog who have served and put themselves on the line
TaxPayer
February 21st, 2013
9:51 pm
Poor Republicans. Still so bitter even after getting the spending cuts that they wanted so dearly. Rejoice Republicans. Your spending cuts are on the way.
Look before I leap...
February 21st, 2013
9:52 pm
@Recon 2533
I took a high speed piece of FOD to my right eye as we were deploying to Saudi Arabia.
Detached my retina.
Never saw actual combat – was grounded by the flight surgeon.
Offered a desk-job or medical discharge.
They classified the injury as combat related because we were in “deployed” status.
I think they were just tryin to be nice.
Look before I leap...
February 21st, 2013
9:59 pm
“My most halarious memories of my college days involves some of those guys who were FORCED to be in ROTC, do the classes, drills, uniform inspections, even get a decent haircut, etc.”
I don’t know when and where you went to college.
My det (Det 330 – University of Maryland – go Terps!) was polished and prime.
Recon 0311 2533
February 21st, 2013
9:59 pm
Look before I leap,
Thank you for serving our country.
Brosephus™
February 21st, 2013
10:01 pm
The report said I think that a DUI while being an illegal is an automotic deportation.
Nope, it’s not. His case would not be a cut and dry case either. If he entered legally and never left, then he’s subject to grounds of deportability under section 237 of the Immigration and Nationality Act. If he entered without inspection, then he’s subject to inadmissibility charges under section 212 of the INA, or he could face 237 charges. A DUI isn’t a ground of inadmissibility and would not keep someone from entering the country or being deported.
More than likely, he would face the charge of unlawful presence in excess of 365 days. A judge could order him removed or grant relief for the charge(s) he faces. The DUI would only serve as a,means of arrest to check his immigration status if the arresting agency is part of the 287g or Secure Communities program. If the agency isn’t part of those programs, then a DUI arrest wouldn’t do a thing in regards to his immigration status.
Recon 0311 2533
February 21st, 2013
10:02 pm
0311/8541,
Some turned out to be pretty good officers. It really depended on how committed they were individually.
Thulsa Doom
February 21st, 2013
10:03 pm
“Not they need to live with that choice.”
Scout,
I hear ya. Most people and especially people in poverty, prison, dead end jobs, etc. are generally there because of one thing- choices in life. As ya’ll know I’m a huge Crimson Tide fan. We had 3 players booted from the program for robbing and beating the hell out of 2 students. All 3 had promising future careers at Bama and it wouldn’t have surprised me if at least 2 of the 3 if not all 3 would have ended up playing on Sundays. But they won’t. They’ll be in jail instead. Why? Because of the choices they made that night when they decided to beat the living hell out of 2 students for some credit cards which they then used at the freaking vending machines in their dorm for snacks. Choices.
JamVet
February 21st, 2013
10:05 pm
Look, I remember that we would have to “walk the flight line” looking for FOD. We all knew just how dangerous it was to people and machines. Sorry to hear you got hit by some…
Didn’t bother to scroll through the previous posts but have any of our Republicans figured out how to fix their Latino problem tonight? (Or their Negro problem or their Jewish problem or their women or problem or their….)
LOL.
Look before I leap...
February 21st, 2013
10:06 pm
@Recon 2533
Ditto
Thulsa Doom
February 21st, 2013
10:07 pm
Brocephus,
I figured deportation for a DUI was kinda harsh and that the report was wrong about that- not to downplay the seriousness of a DUI. In any event in his case it would be silly to deport someone who has been here that long and who probably knows little if anything of his native land.
Vast Right Wing Conspiracy (aka "Knuckle-Dragger")
February 21st, 2013
10:08 pm
It would be interesting to learn how much you liberals care about these folks if they could never vote. I am fairly sure I know the answer.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 21st, 2013
10:08 pm
Thulsa:
Yep ………… it’s all about “choices”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQMI7TksYo0
Look before I leap...
February 21st, 2013
10:12 pm
“Look, I remember that we would have to “walk the flight line” looking for FOD”
Don’t sweat it. A zipper pull is hard to see on the ground. The truly annoying thing was it was my aviator glasses that did the most damage. Oh the irony…
To this day I won’t wear framed glasses.
Mr_B
February 21st, 2013
10:14 pm
“Most people and especially people in poverty, prison, dead end jobs, etc. are generally there because of one thing- choices in life.”
Doom, how did you learn to make all the right choices? Instinct? Divine intervention? My guess is that it all stems from that first right choice you made: to be born in the right place, at the right time, to the right parents. I know for sure that that was my first right “choice,” not that I didn’t make plenty of other stupid choices along the way. I just happened to be lucky enough not to get permanently burned by any one of them. I’ve known plenty of people who were no better or worse than I have been, and have a lot less than I have.
“There but for the grace of G-d……”
Thulsa Doom
February 21st, 2013
10:15 pm
“Didn’t bother to scroll through the previous posts but have any of our Republicans figured out how to fix their Latino problem tonight?”
JamVet,
We have no problem with hot little Cuban or Brazilian Latinas.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 21st, 2013
10:15 pm
Look before I leap…
Tenn. Tech 1965/66 my freshman year before I went in the USMC.
The Ranger Battalion was squared away but the regular battlions were something else. Just treading water. The first week when we had our first inspection, they had run out of ties so one guy showed up with a “conservatively striped” civilian tie on. Guess he thought it would be better than no tie at all! He found out differently !
I was on the drill team and it was one of the best things I have ever done ……. the “Rebel Rifles”.
We won the Tenn. State Championship in Nashville and then the Southeastern Championship at Ft. Gordon, Georgia (beat Clemson who had won it 11 years straight) and then we went to the National Championships held at the National Guard Armory in Washington, D.C. in conjunction with marching in the Cherry Blossom Parade.
We came in 6th place nationally if I remember correctly. I do know that Perdue won it that year.
We used the M-1 .03’s with the 18 inch bayonets.
Look before I leap...
February 21st, 2013
10:17 pm
@many numbers:
“Many in the Democrat Party are rich elites who want to spend someone else’s money.”
“Many in the Republican Party are rich elites who want to spend someone else’s money.”
Are either of the two above statements untrue?
JKL2
February 21st, 2013
10:19 pm
-“We use Mexicans in our work,”
That’s the part that “strikes a powerful chord” for me. Many are not immigrants because they have no intention of ever becoming American citizens. There has to be a system because Demwits are eager to slap our rights on people who don’t deserve them.
America became the great melting pot. Unfortunately melting is now highly discouraged in the name of “diversity”.
Brosephus™
February 21st, 2013
10:20 pm
Doom
It all depends on the judge.
Thulsa Doom
February 21st, 2013
10:21 pm
Mr_B,
I had a crapload of DA mistakes even with good parenting. If I had to do things over all over again there are some things I would definitely have done different. But I had to live with the consequences of whatever stupid things I did or better choices that I didn’t make. We all have to live with the choices we make.
Mr_B
February 21st, 2013
10:23 pm
Look before:
Well, the second one might also read “Many in the Republican Party are rich elites who want to ACCUMULATE someone else’s money.”
JKL2
February 21st, 2013
10:28 pm
taxpayer- Still so bitter even after getting the spending cuts that they wanted so dearly. Rejoice Republicans. Your spending cuts are on the way.
Are you talking about that “draconian” $110 Billion spending increase called sequestration?
TBS
February 21st, 2013
10:28 pm
Bro
Hope NASCAR has a better show on Sunday. Duels were pretty weak and they are usually better than the 500 imo.
Brosephus™
February 21st, 2013
10:32 pm
TBS
I think they’re still trying to figure out the new car. I think there will be a bumper crop of sheet metal available for recycling on Sunday evening.
Mr_B
February 21st, 2013
10:34 pm
Doom: My point is that many of us never have to live with the consequences of the bad choices we make. Blaming someone else’s misfortune on “bad choices” seems pretty sanctimonious to me. Not to mention an easy way to avoid any responsibility we might have toward others. It’s simply way too easy to claim that this individual or that group deserves anything that befalls because he or they made “bad choices.” For the most part, we never know what are the real options available to others.
Look before I leap...
February 21st, 2013
10:36 pm
@ many numbers
Different time, different motivation.
Thank you for being diligent at a very tough time (my stepfather was USMC – so Semper Fi).
I commanded the cadet honor guard.
Got tasked with creating a demonstration drill unit.
Had no money and we drilled with these crappy plastic and fiberglass rifles. Ugh
Finally found some surplus M-1s but they were shocked and the University said NO BAYONETS.
When we drilled with these – the bolts were loose because of the shock and they kept flying off.
Could not glue them in because the drill routine called for a bolt maneuver.
SO I devised a move where the team pulled the bolt completely out, tapped the barrel twice and stuck the bolt in the right back pocket. It was pretty cool and snappy
We placed 2nd to last in the competition, but I did get a commendation for original thinking.
Mr_B
February 21st, 2013
10:37 pm
Out for the night: Shalom all!
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 21st, 2013
10:41 pm
Look before I leap…
I love it !
“Adapt ………. Improvise …………. and Overcome” !!!
Look before I leap...
February 21st, 2013
10:48 pm
“Adapt ………. Improvise …………. and Overcome” !!!
I love it – let’s Fedex THAT to DC.
Time for both sides to quit worrying about getting re-elected and get some work done.
Thulsa Doom
February 21st, 2013
10:50 pm
“Blaming someone else’s misfortune on “bad choices” seems pretty sanctimonious to me.”
No. Not really. Show me someone who is doing very poorly in life and most of the time its primarily due to the choices in life that he or she made. Now it does happen that sometimes people are hit with true misfortune by things totally beyond their control. But in my experience most of the people who did good, bad, or somewhere in between in life are right where they are because of their choices in life.
As far as having a responsibility to total strangers that sounds like collective socialism speak where I should feel guilted into feeling that I owe people something. I don’t feel I have much responsibility to people that I don’t know except to be a good citizen, pay my taxes, tithe, and generally be good to people. But I don’t owe them anything as far as having a responsibility to them.
barking frog
February 21st, 2013
10:53 pm
Funny I owed my country 6 years just for being born
here and it owed me nothing although I was promised
some things some of which I used and I was paid as
much as everybody else so I don’t need thanks or
respect or anything else. my debt is paid.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
February 21st, 2013
11:19 pm
Funny I owed my country 6 years just for being born
here and it owed me nothing . . .
Well, young people today are mighty lucky military service is voluntary. Back in the 50s and early 60s when I served every able-bodied young man was drafted if he didn’t volunteer. I’m not talking about this lottery thing like they had in the Vietnam War. And I’m not talking about just registering for the draft. I’m talking about everybpdy serving except for people in colledge and certain lines of work. You could be certain on the day you were born as a male that you would be serving in the military. You went in, you served, and if you lived you got out.
Look before I leap...
February 21st, 2013
11:22 pm
@Doom
“As far as having a responsibility to total strangers that sounds like collective socialism speak where I should feel guilted into feeling that I owe people something”.
Ya know. You don’t. Neither do I.
But there is always going to be a segment of society that fails. Some may try an fall flat and others may never make the attempt to succeed.
In either circumstance, if for no other reason than they are fellow human beings, they certainly do not deserve contempt.
That said, the “you made your bed so lie in it” attitude isn’t gonna solve the problem.
I really don’t know what the solution is, but cutting off the food supply to those who have made bad choices in life is, to me, a bad path to follow.
td
February 21st, 2013
11:28 pm
Mr_B
February 21st, 2013
10:34 pm
” My point is that many of us never have to live with the consequences of the bad choices we make.”
That is not a true statement. We all live with the choices we make everyday, even if they are mostly the correct choices. We made choices in college to go party with our friends on the weekend instead of reading those 10 extra chapters and the result was we received a B or C instead of an A and it stopped us from getting the job at that huge company. We made the choice to go to our kids 1st birthday party instead of getting that report in early or that project completed early and the result was that we only received a 5% raise instead of a 10% raise.
We made the choices when we were younger to drink or not to drink, you made the choice to have unprotected sex or not too. You made the choice to pay attention in HS or not and to do your homework or not.
Bottom line is we make choices everyday and their are consequences to our choices.
Cherokee
February 21st, 2013
11:35 pm
Nah, knuckledragger, I doubt that you do.
td
February 21st, 2013
11:37 pm
Look before I leap…
February 21st, 2013
11:22 pm
That current segment is now 20 to 25% of the population. We are the rich’s nation and the most giving nation in the world and we still have a higher % of our population failing then most other countries. Why? We have spent trillions of dollars since the 1960’s on preventing poverty and our % of failure is not declining. We spend more on education then any other country in the world and are near the bottom in results and dropouts.
IMHO: The great society is a failure and it must be re-examined. If the government would let me live in the same lifestyle I have today without having any responsibility, no consequences for my actions and without having to actually work then it would be very tempting to take them up on that offer. Human nature my friend.
Cherokee
February 21st, 2013
11:37 pm
I disagree td. Lots of people make bad choices and suffer no consequences at all – example, my grandpa smoked and lived to be 93 years old.
Some people are lucky, or unlucky, regardless of the choices they make.
Cherokee
February 21st, 2013
11:40 pm
And the key to your second comment is ‘the same lifestyle.’ People who depend on food stamps, and other welfare programs, do NOT live well. I couyldn’t make it – my guess is that if you’re middle class or higher, you would have trouble also.
td
February 21st, 2013
11:46 pm
Cherokee
February 21st, 2013
11:40 pm
And the key to your second comment is ‘the same lifestyle.’ People who depend on food stamps, and other welfare programs, do NOT live well. I couyldn’t make it – my guess is that if you’re middle class or higher, you would have trouble also.
And from my experience of once working for DFCS I can tell you that I have spoken to many many people that get use to the circumstances they live in. Remember there are very few of the poor in this country that do not have AC, place to sleep, TV, Cable, internet and an IPhone (or similar type phone). If these people need a little more money then they know how to work under the table to get what they want.
td
February 21st, 2013
11:51 pm
Cherokee
February 21st, 2013
11:37 pm
I disagree td. Lots of people make bad choices and suffer no consequences at all – example, my grandpa smoked and lived to be 93 years old.
Some people are lucky, or unlucky, regardless of the choices they make.
The key to your statement is some and luck in most cases have to do with what you do when the chance is given to you (choice you make). Some people are also given the gifts to be able to sing, athletic, will be tall or handsome or teach. We are all different and none of us were born exactly equal so everyone has to work with what they are given.
Cherokee
February 21st, 2013
11:53 pm
I’m sure that’s true of some people. And we obviously shouldn’t support them forever. I just hear comments like that so often – ‘why don’t I just quit my job and let Obama give me a cell phone?’, for example.
And it’s silly – no one would choose to go from a middle class lifestyle to living in poverty just to collect $150 per month in food stamps or to get a free flip phone…
Cherokee
February 21st, 2013
11:56 pm
Let me give you a better example. Lots of folks worked for Enron, and invested all their 401K money in the company. Bad choice, right? Certainly in hindsight…
Thank goodness there is a government program – social security – so that those folks aren’t living on the street today, in spite of their bad choice.
td
February 21st, 2013
11:57 pm
Cherokee
February 21st, 2013
11:53 pm
Go do a little research my friend. We would not be spending more then $1 trillion per year on means tested programs if we only gave people $150 per month and a flip phone. If you are a single parent with two children then you can receive benefits worth between $20, 000 to $40,000 per year.
Cherokee
February 22nd, 2013
12:01 am
I’m not making my point clearly. You, nor I, would give up our middle class lifestyle (making an assumption about you obviously) to live off the government for $20 to $40 thousand per year.
td
February 22nd, 2013
12:04 am
Cherokee
February 21st, 2013
11:56 pm
Social Security is not a means tested program.
I worked for Lockheed way back in the 80’s. The day I got laid off I had $20,000 in my 401K and was in my early 20’s. My soon the be father in law told me to take the money and roll it into lockheed stock ($22 per share). I chose to take the money and take a year off of work and go to college full time when I could have worked part time and went to school. What do you think that choice has cost me today?
td
February 22nd, 2013
12:06 am
Cherokee
February 22nd, 2013
12:01 am
I got your point and agree that we would not but my point is a person that has never reached middle class and has no desire to reach middle class has no incentive to try to become self sufficient and why should they if they are OK with not reaching middle class?
Cherokee
February 22nd, 2013
12:07 am
Didn’t know we were limiting our discussion to ‘means tested’ programs.
And I have no clue about your choice – mainly ’cause I’m too tired to think about it…
Night….
Thulsa Doom
February 22nd, 2013
12:17 am
Look before I leap,
I never said or suggested anything in the way of abandoning people who are down on their luck or in a hard spot just because of foolish choices that they’ve made.
So if you have the idea that I’m all about “screw them, they made their own bed, let them lie in it” then you have the wrong opinion. I am merely stating that most people are in their situation because of choices they made. That doesn’t mean screw me or don’t help them.
I’ve been on record here numerous times as saying that I believe in a social safety net program. And I certainly do believe that we should help our fellow man when he’s temporarily down and out. We do that because its the right and decent thing to do- not because someone arbitrarily decides its somebody else’s responsibility to take care of someone else.
In a nutshell I’m absolutely in favor of social safety net programs and helping those from disadvantaged families- especially children who have no say in the circumstances they were born into. I just don’t believe in it becoming a way of life for generation after generation to be on welfare or for one person to be on welfare for extended periods of time. That’s all.
Byron Ellis
February 22nd, 2013
6:46 am
Has anybody thought about selling citizenships? It would seem we could make a dent in our debt/deficits by putting an appropriate price tag on a really hot commodity. Supply and demand really work.
Common Sense is Uncommon
February 22nd, 2013
12:02 pm
Making illegals legal does not create jobs. With more than 25% of our legal citizens unemployed and unable to find work, solving that problem should be the priority of this country and until such a time as the unemployment problem is solved there should be no discussion of adding to the problem by increasing the number of people that do not have jobs. There is no shortage of labor at this time. This administration just doesn’t get it. The immigration discussion is merely a distraction to keep the focus of the minions off the real problem which is our economy sucks and is not getting better.
Economic Analyst
February 25th, 2013
3:41 pm
Millions of Mexicans have fled the country’s woes. Between 1970 and 2008, the percentage of the Mexican-born population living in the U.S. grew from 1.5 percent to 11 percent—from about 760,000 to 11.8 million people, roughly 15 percent of the country’s potential male workforce. About 7 million are here illegally, making up 61 percent of the total illegal immigrant population, the Department of Homeland Security estimates. Most Mexicans have relatives living in the U.S., and as many as one in four households has at least one member here, surveys by Mexican polling firms show. The migration is self-perpetuating because the most likely to emigrate are those with relatives already here. Though the exodus has slowed a bit since the recession, Mexico’s National Population Council projects that it will last another 30 years or longer.
“The desire for a better life trumps even national pride: polls find that most Mexicans would be willing to join the two countries into one if doing so would raise their standard of living.”
So all it would take is a simple election!!
http://www.city-journal.org/2009/19_4_helping-mexico.html