Standing athwart a pathway to citizenship, yelling ‘No!’
In a new Bloomberg poll, just 23 percent of Americans say they oppose giving illegal immigrants a pathway to citizenship. That finding is echoed by a newly released Pew poll, which reports that just 25 percent of Americans back the enforcement-only, no-citizenship option.
A handful of Senate Republicans, led by John McCain and Marco Rubio, is trying to move legislation that would respond to that clear expression of public opinion without also giving a legislative victory to President Obama. That is proving to be a difficult needle to thread. At some point, McCain and Rubio will probably have to decide which of those goals is more important.
And unfortunately, even if comprehensive immigration reform makes it through the Senate, the odds of passage through the GOP-run House look extremely low. That bill would have to go through the House Judiciary Committee, and in a new report by NPR, Committee Chairman Bob Goodlatte of Virginia expressed strong opposition to citizenship.
“People have a pathway to citizenship right now,” Goodlatte told NPR. “It’s to abide by the immigration laws, and if they have a family relationship, if they have a job skill that allows them to do that, they can obtain citizenship.”
Goodlatte also made it clear that he would extract a price for merely agreeing to give those illegal immigrants legal work status, without the option of citizenship.
“You’re going to have to have a program that assures those farms and those processing plants that there will be workers,” he said. “Because if you give them legal status, they can work anywhere in the United States — they’re not going to necessarily work at the hardest, toughest, dirtiest jobs.”
That’s a pretty damning statement. According to Goodlatte, employers need a class of people with little or no legal option except to work at the “hardest, toughest, dirtiest jobs.” For now, that niche is served by illegal immigrants, but if they are given a path out of that predicament — if they are given permits that allow them to work legally wherever they can find employment — the nation would have to import a lot more “guest workers” to replace them in doing that dirty work.
That’s strikes a powerful chord for me. At one time in our history, we did have a class of people with no option but the hardest, dirtiest jobs, people who were trapped by law in that role. One hundred and fifty years ago, we fought a war to end that system. Then as now, there’s something fundamentally wrong with systematically wringing the sweat out of people while denying them the hope of bettering themselves.
One other quote in the story also should be noted:
“We use Mexicans in our work,” Ed Toomey, a building contractor in Goodlatte’s Virginia congressional district, told NPR, “and, you know, they’re fine people. But there has to be a law. They have to abide by the rules, like everybody else.”
Those rules of course include rules against the hiring of illegal immigrants.
– Jay Bookman
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282 comments Add your comment
Look before I leap...
February 21st, 2013
8:49 pm
“…she could nurse him the better for him and she nursed him supplementally until he was nearly 5.”
Well over 4 decades later, I am still a mite peeved that Dolly Parton is not my mother.
Brosephus™
February 21st, 2013
8:51 pm
Doggone
I think the first child made it to about 8mos or so. We’ve had foreigners feed their kids while going thru processing. I think the oldest I’ve seen is 2-3.
комиссар (Occupation)
February 21st, 2013
8:51 pm
Recon 666: “The Democrat party ..”
Oh? I’m not familiar with them. Please explain who this party is.
Brosephus™
February 21st, 2013
8:53 pm
Look before
Aren’t we all?
Orange13
February 21st, 2013
8:58 pm
Fox showed a clip that more or less portrays Obama’s Uncle as getting preferential treatment as far as immigration goes. I tend to agree with them. Maybe the system really is broken mainly by people not being able to do their job.
Look before I leap...
February 21st, 2013
9:04 pm
“… centralized federal government will provide them with cradle to grave financial care. Yes, the party of stupids.”
As the son of a USAF pilot I was born in a military hospital, my meals for the next 12 years came gratis of the federal government. The federal government also paid my college tuition via an ROTC scholarship and then provided my monthly paycheck for the 7 years after my graduation.
The US government is now one of my clients and therefore provides for a significant portion of my annual income even to this day. Were I to avail myself of it (which I do not) I am entitled to VA medical benefits as well as disability pay which I also do not take.
I won’t need nor will I apply for Social Security retirement benefits if and when I decide to stop working. The only thing I will ask for is a vault at a military cemetery for my ashes and those of my wife when I die.
Given that your handle indicates prior military service, I am both shocked and chagrined that you would make such a broad, sweeping and idiotic comment.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 21st, 2013
9:10 pm
Look before I leap… :
Your parents and/or you “earned” that for what they/you did.
It was not an “entitlement” or a “free handout”.
Look before I leap...
February 21st, 2013
9:12 pm
@Bro
Well glad to hear things aren’t dire yet.
Still – look at the Income Protection options. It is amazing what a few missed payments to Amex can do to your credit score.
My B-I-L and his wife are both in Arlington. He is retired Army (Special Forces) double-dipping at the Pentagon in a civvie role. She is with NSF. They are getting their numbers tomorrow but looks like 28 and 26 days furlough. OUCH!
Thulsa Doom
February 21st, 2013
9:18 pm
“Your parents and/or you “earned” that for what they/you did.
It was not an “entitlement” or a “free handout”.”
Scout,
Its a simple distinction really. But one that liberals are either unwilling or unable to make.
stands for decibels
February 21st, 2013
9:19 pm
even if comprehensive immigration reform makes it through the Senate, the odds of passage through the GOP-run House look extremely low.
There’s really no point in calling it the “House of Representatives.” because they’re not actually representing their districts. I really don’t know *what* to call these guys, except a-holes.
/drive-by
Thulsa Doom
February 21st, 2013
9:27 pm
“Fox showed a clip that more or less portrays Obama’s Uncle as getting preferential treatment as far as immigration goes”
Apparently he is in fact getting special treatment but I doubt the president had anything to do with it. Probably folks at the local level made the decision. The report said I think that a DUI while being an illegal is an automotic deportation. I dunno if that’s true or not. But the guy has been here 50 years I think they said. He’s pretty much an American so in my opinion it would be ridiculous to deport someone who has been here virtually his whole life because of a DUI. Besides, I have a soft spot for fellow hellraising drinkers. Not excusing the DUI. Just saying its still a misdemeanor and certainly not enough to warrant booting a man who has been here 50 years. That’s just plain wrong.
Look before I leap...
February 21st, 2013
9:32 pm
@0311
Thank you for telling me what I already know.
My point and perhaps it was a touch too oblique, is that to conclude that everyone in the Democratic party is a free-loading, money grubbing, worthless POS who only wants handouts from Uncle Sam without so much as a how’d ya do – is complete horse hockey.
Normally I am either amused by the stupidity of some of the morons here or just plain ignore it. But it is getting tiresome and old and now it ticks me off.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 21st, 2013
9:35 pm
Look before I leap…
I hear you ………… as long as you make the distinction.
Many in the Democrat Party are rich elites who want to spend someone else’s money.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 21st, 2013
9:36 pm
Thulsa @ 9:18
Exactly !
Buzzy
February 21st, 2013
9:38 pm
What happened to the GOP’s effort to reach out to all parts of society? I am after all, they really got creamed in the presidential election. Here we have a big NO to immigrants from the GOP, Log Cabin Republicans did not even get an invite to CPAC. I don’t something is going wrong with their “spin” and PR program.
The Republicans are their own worst enemies and I love it.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 21st, 2013
9:38 pm
Thulsa:
For example, there are a lot of “liberal” guys my age (of various ethncities) who are whining about their “old age future” and the government taking care of them.
Well, in 1966 they had a choice ………… and they made it. They could have served their country (and made a good career out of it if they chose) but they decided to stay home, go to school, be a hippie dippy bum or whatever. Not they need to live with that choice.
TBS
February 21st, 2013
9:39 pm
“Many in the Democrat Party are rich elites who want to spend someone else’s money.”
So glad that all Republicans are immune from all that. Aren’t you?
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 21st, 2013
9:39 pm
“The Republicans are their own worst enemies and I love it.”
Well then quit worrying about it.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 21st, 2013
9:40 pm
TBS:
As long as you recognize the hypocrisy ………… !!
deegee
February 21st, 2013
9:40 pm
I got a big kick out of the comment that Johnny Isakson made a couple of years ago when talking to a group of people about immigration reform. At that time he was in favor of some sort of 3 year guest worker program. When the 3 years were up they would have to leave because after all, the people that leave their country of origin shouldn’t be allowed to completely escape the socio-economic problems that drove them away in the first place. Then he waxed nostalgic about his Swedish grandparents that emigrated to the U.S. I wonder where Johnny would be now if his grandparents were told that they could come to the U.S., work for 3 years and then they would have to go back to Sweden and solve the potato famine problem themselves.
TBS
February 21st, 2013
9:41 pm
Scout
Why are you not calling out the conservatives that you willingly vote for each election? Many did the same as the liberals you cry about.
Your selective condemnation speaks volumes.
TBS
February 21st, 2013
9:42 pm
Yes Scout
I regonize your hypocrisy as well as others on a regular basis
Buzzy
February 21st, 2013
9:42 pm
It’s too fun to watch to leave it alone. The new Republican public relations program is a colossal FAIL. The tent is not getting bigger, it’s getting smaller and that means fewer Republican voters before long. Always a good thing.
Recon 0311 2533
February 21st, 2013
9:43 pm
I am both shocked and chagrined that you would make such a broad, sweeping and idiotic comment.
Did you serve and fight for our country? Were your disabilities a result of wounds incurred in combat? If so this country owes you whatever your needs require and far beyond. If not this country owes you nothing for your ROTC training but did owe your father for providing you a college education, that he earned for you, which you did not earn for yourself.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 21st, 2013
9:44 pm
TBS:
Ditto !
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 21st, 2013
9:45 pm
Recon:
My most halarious memories of my college days involves some of those guys who were FORCED to be in ROTC, do the classes, drills, uniform inspections, even get a decent haircut, etc.
It was a HOOT !
Disgusted
February 21st, 2013
9:46 pm
I wish that those who gripe about this country and its problems could have seen the pride on the face of the former Nigerian who serves as a nursing aide for my disabled wife as he announced tonight that he had completed the final hurdle to become a U. S. citizen. His stated first task for tomorrow morning was to go register to vote.
If others wanting to become citizens have only half of his pride and resolve, we don’t need to be debating the pathway to citizenship for immigrants.
TBS
February 21st, 2013
9:47 pm
“If so this country owes you whatever your needs require and far beyond.”
Crying shame that politicians of all stripes have voted to cut the needs of folks like yourself who have served this country. Wasn’t just Dems and libs. The last three Republican Presidents didn’t think much of the veterans based on their budgets.
thuggishNews
February 21st, 2013
9:49 pm
the cure for illegal immigrants is to all claim cuban citizenship when the arrive. that guarantees you instant legal status. i dont know why they are not using this trick. it worked so well now 2 of them are senators.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 21st, 2013
9:49 pm
TBS, the GOP sure did not think they owed first responders much in the way of support for their needs.
TBS
February 21st, 2013
9:50 pm
Recon
I do agree with you that those that served are owed whatever is needed and beyond. Just saying it just isn’t the “liberal” that has denied them that.
As always, thank Scout, you and others on this blog who have served and put themselves on the line
TaxPayer
February 21st, 2013
9:51 pm
Poor Republicans. Still so bitter even after getting the spending cuts that they wanted so dearly. Rejoice Republicans. Your spending cuts are on the way.
Look before I leap...
February 21st, 2013
9:52 pm
@Recon 2533
I took a high speed piece of FOD to my right eye as we were deploying to Saudi Arabia.
Detached my retina.
Never saw actual combat – was grounded by the flight surgeon.
Offered a desk-job or medical discharge.
They classified the injury as combat related because we were in “deployed” status.
I think they were just tryin to be nice.
Look before I leap...
February 21st, 2013
9:59 pm
“My most halarious memories of my college days involves some of those guys who were FORCED to be in ROTC, do the classes, drills, uniform inspections, even get a decent haircut, etc.”
I don’t know when and where you went to college.
My det (Det 330 – University of Maryland – go Terps!) was polished and prime.
Recon 0311 2533
February 21st, 2013
9:59 pm
Look before I leap,
Thank you for serving our country.
Brosephus™
February 21st, 2013
10:01 pm
The report said I think that a DUI while being an illegal is an automotic deportation.
Nope, it’s not. His case would not be a cut and dry case either. If he entered legally and never left, then he’s subject to grounds of deportability under section 237 of the Immigration and Nationality Act. If he entered without inspection, then he’s subject to inadmissibility charges under section 212 of the INA, or he could face 237 charges. A DUI isn’t a ground of inadmissibility and would not keep someone from entering the country or being deported.
More than likely, he would face the charge of unlawful presence in excess of 365 days. A judge could order him removed or grant relief for the charge(s) he faces. The DUI would only serve as a,means of arrest to check his immigration status if the arresting agency is part of the 287g or Secure Communities program. If the agency isn’t part of those programs, then a DUI arrest wouldn’t do a thing in regards to his immigration status.
Recon 0311 2533
February 21st, 2013
10:02 pm
0311/8541,
Some turned out to be pretty good officers. It really depended on how committed they were individually.
Thulsa Doom
February 21st, 2013
10:03 pm
“Not they need to live with that choice.”
Scout,
I hear ya. Most people and especially people in poverty, prison, dead end jobs, etc. are generally there because of one thing- choices in life. As ya’ll know I’m a huge Crimson Tide fan. We had 3 players booted from the program for robbing and beating the hell out of 2 students. All 3 had promising future careers at Bama and it wouldn’t have surprised me if at least 2 of the 3 if not all 3 would have ended up playing on Sundays. But they won’t. They’ll be in jail instead. Why? Because of the choices they made that night when they decided to beat the living hell out of 2 students for some credit cards which they then used at the freaking vending machines in their dorm for snacks. Choices.
JamVet
February 21st, 2013
10:05 pm
Look, I remember that we would have to “walk the flight line” looking for FOD. We all knew just how dangerous it was to people and machines. Sorry to hear you got hit by some…
Didn’t bother to scroll through the previous posts but have any of our Republicans figured out how to fix their Latino problem tonight? (Or their Negro problem or their Jewish problem or their women or problem or their….)
LOL.
Look before I leap...
February 21st, 2013
10:06 pm
@Recon 2533
Ditto
Thulsa Doom
February 21st, 2013
10:07 pm
Brocephus,
I figured deportation for a DUI was kinda harsh and that the report was wrong about that- not to downplay the seriousness of a DUI. In any event in his case it would be silly to deport someone who has been here that long and who probably knows little if anything of his native land.
Vast Right Wing Conspiracy (aka "Knuckle-Dragger")
February 21st, 2013
10:08 pm
It would be interesting to learn how much you liberals care about these folks if they could never vote. I am fairly sure I know the answer.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 21st, 2013
10:08 pm
Thulsa:
Yep ………… it’s all about “choices”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQMI7TksYo0
Look before I leap...
February 21st, 2013
10:12 pm
“Look, I remember that we would have to “walk the flight line” looking for FOD”
Don’t sweat it. A zipper pull is hard to see on the ground. The truly annoying thing was it was my aviator glasses that did the most damage. Oh the irony…
To this day I won’t wear framed glasses.
Mr_B
February 21st, 2013
10:14 pm
“Most people and especially people in poverty, prison, dead end jobs, etc. are generally there because of one thing- choices in life.”
Doom, how did you learn to make all the right choices? Instinct? Divine intervention? My guess is that it all stems from that first right choice you made: to be born in the right place, at the right time, to the right parents. I know for sure that that was my first right “choice,” not that I didn’t make plenty of other stupid choices along the way. I just happened to be lucky enough not to get permanently burned by any one of them. I’ve known plenty of people who were no better or worse than I have been, and have a lot less than I have.
“There but for the grace of G-d……”
Thulsa Doom
February 21st, 2013
10:15 pm
“Didn’t bother to scroll through the previous posts but have any of our Republicans figured out how to fix their Latino problem tonight?”
JamVet,
We have no problem with hot little Cuban or Brazilian Latinas.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 21st, 2013
10:15 pm
Look before I leap…
Tenn. Tech 1965/66 my freshman year before I went in the USMC.
The Ranger Battalion was squared away but the regular battlions were something else. Just treading water. The first week when we had our first inspection, they had run out of ties so one guy showed up with a “conservatively striped” civilian tie on. Guess he thought it would be better than no tie at all! He found out differently !
I was on the drill team and it was one of the best things I have ever done ……. the “Rebel Rifles”.
We won the Tenn. State Championship in Nashville and then the Southeastern Championship at Ft. Gordon, Georgia (beat Clemson who had won it 11 years straight) and then we went to the National Championships held at the National Guard Armory in Washington, D.C. in conjunction with marching in the Cherry Blossom Parade.
We came in 6th place nationally if I remember correctly. I do know that Perdue won it that year.
We used the M-1 .03’s with the 18 inch bayonets.
Look before I leap...
February 21st, 2013
10:17 pm
@many numbers:
“Many in the Democrat Party are rich elites who want to spend someone else’s money.”
“Many in the Republican Party are rich elites who want to spend someone else’s money.”
Are either of the two above statements untrue?
JKL2
February 21st, 2013
10:19 pm
-“We use Mexicans in our work,”
That’s the part that “strikes a powerful chord” for me. Many are not immigrants because they have no intention of ever becoming American citizens. There has to be a system because Demwits are eager to slap our rights on people who don’t deserve them.
America became the great melting pot. Unfortunately melting is now highly discouraged in the name of “diversity”.
Brosephus™
February 21st, 2013
10:20 pm
Doom
It all depends on the judge.
Thulsa Doom
February 21st, 2013
10:21 pm
Mr_B,
I had a crapload of DA mistakes even with good parenting. If I had to do things over all over again there are some things I would definitely have done different. But I had to live with the consequences of whatever stupid things I did or better choices that I didn’t make. We all have to live with the choices we make.
Mr_B
February 21st, 2013
10:23 pm
Look before:
Well, the second one might also read “Many in the Republican Party are rich elites who want to ACCUMULATE someone else’s money.”
JKL2
February 21st, 2013
10:28 pm
taxpayer- Still so bitter even after getting the spending cuts that they wanted so dearly. Rejoice Republicans. Your spending cuts are on the way.
Are you talking about that “draconian” $110 Billion spending increase called sequestration?
TBS
February 21st, 2013
10:28 pm
Bro
Hope NASCAR has a better show on Sunday. Duels were pretty weak and they are usually better than the 500 imo.
Brosephus™
February 21st, 2013
10:32 pm
TBS
I think they’re still trying to figure out the new car. I think there will be a bumper crop of sheet metal available for recycling on Sunday evening.
Mr_B
February 21st, 2013
10:34 pm
Doom: My point is that many of us never have to live with the consequences of the bad choices we make. Blaming someone else’s misfortune on “bad choices” seems pretty sanctimonious to me. Not to mention an easy way to avoid any responsibility we might have toward others. It’s simply way too easy to claim that this individual or that group deserves anything that befalls because he or they made “bad choices.” For the most part, we never know what are the real options available to others.
Look before I leap...
February 21st, 2013
10:36 pm
@ many numbers
Different time, different motivation.
Thank you for being diligent at a very tough time (my stepfather was USMC – so Semper Fi).
I commanded the cadet honor guard.
Got tasked with creating a demonstration drill unit.
Had no money and we drilled with these crappy plastic and fiberglass rifles. Ugh
Finally found some surplus M-1s but they were shocked and the University said NO BAYONETS.
When we drilled with these – the bolts were loose because of the shock and they kept flying off.
Could not glue them in because the drill routine called for a bolt maneuver.
SO I devised a move where the team pulled the bolt completely out, tapped the barrel twice and stuck the bolt in the right back pocket. It was pretty cool and snappy
We placed 2nd to last in the competition, but I did get a commendation for original thinking.
Mr_B
February 21st, 2013
10:37 pm
Out for the night: Shalom all!
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 21st, 2013
10:41 pm
Look before I leap…
I love it !
“Adapt ………. Improvise …………. and Overcome” !!!
Look before I leap...
February 21st, 2013
10:48 pm
“Adapt ………. Improvise …………. and Overcome” !!!
I love it – let’s Fedex THAT to DC.
Time for both sides to quit worrying about getting re-elected and get some work done.
Thulsa Doom
February 21st, 2013
10:50 pm
“Blaming someone else’s misfortune on “bad choices” seems pretty sanctimonious to me.”
No. Not really. Show me someone who is doing very poorly in life and most of the time its primarily due to the choices in life that he or she made. Now it does happen that sometimes people are hit with true misfortune by things totally beyond their control. But in my experience most of the people who did good, bad, or somewhere in between in life are right where they are because of their choices in life.
As far as having a responsibility to total strangers that sounds like collective socialism speak where I should feel guilted into feeling that I owe people something. I don’t feel I have much responsibility to people that I don’t know except to be a good citizen, pay my taxes, tithe, and generally be good to people. But I don’t owe them anything as far as having a responsibility to them.
barking frog
February 21st, 2013
10:53 pm
Funny I owed my country 6 years just for being born
here and it owed me nothing although I was promised
some things some of which I used and I was paid as
much as everybody else so I don’t need thanks or
respect or anything else. my debt is paid.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
February 21st, 2013
11:19 pm
Funny I owed my country 6 years just for being born
here and it owed me nothing . . .
Well, young people today are mighty lucky military service is voluntary. Back in the 50s and early 60s when I served every able-bodied young man was drafted if he didn’t volunteer. I’m not talking about this lottery thing like they had in the Vietnam War. And I’m not talking about just registering for the draft. I’m talking about everybpdy serving except for people in colledge and certain lines of work. You could be certain on the day you were born as a male that you would be serving in the military. You went in, you served, and if you lived you got out.
Look before I leap...
February 21st, 2013
11:22 pm
@Doom
“As far as having a responsibility to total strangers that sounds like collective socialism speak where I should feel guilted into feeling that I owe people something”.
Ya know. You don’t. Neither do I.
But there is always going to be a segment of society that fails. Some may try an fall flat and others may never make the attempt to succeed.
In either circumstance, if for no other reason than they are fellow human beings, they certainly do not deserve contempt.
That said, the “you made your bed so lie in it” attitude isn’t gonna solve the problem.
I really don’t know what the solution is, but cutting off the food supply to those who have made bad choices in life is, to me, a bad path to follow.
td
February 21st, 2013
11:28 pm
Mr_B
February 21st, 2013
10:34 pm
” My point is that many of us never have to live with the consequences of the bad choices we make.”
That is not a true statement. We all live with the choices we make everyday, even if they are mostly the correct choices. We made choices in college to go party with our friends on the weekend instead of reading those 10 extra chapters and the result was we received a B or C instead of an A and it stopped us from getting the job at that huge company. We made the choice to go to our kids 1st birthday party instead of getting that report in early or that project completed early and the result was that we only received a 5% raise instead of a 10% raise.
We made the choices when we were younger to drink or not to drink, you made the choice to have unprotected sex or not too. You made the choice to pay attention in HS or not and to do your homework or not.
Bottom line is we make choices everyday and their are consequences to our choices.
Cherokee
February 21st, 2013
11:35 pm
Nah, knuckledragger, I doubt that you do.
td
February 21st, 2013
11:37 pm
Look before I leap…
February 21st, 2013
11:22 pm
That current segment is now 20 to 25% of the population. We are the rich’s nation and the most giving nation in the world and we still have a higher % of our population failing then most other countries. Why? We have spent trillions of dollars since the 1960’s on preventing poverty and our % of failure is not declining. We spend more on education then any other country in the world and are near the bottom in results and dropouts.
IMHO: The great society is a failure and it must be re-examined. If the government would let me live in the same lifestyle I have today without having any responsibility, no consequences for my actions and without having to actually work then it would be very tempting to take them up on that offer. Human nature my friend.
Cherokee
February 21st, 2013
11:37 pm
I disagree td. Lots of people make bad choices and suffer no consequences at all – example, my grandpa smoked and lived to be 93 years old.
Some people are lucky, or unlucky, regardless of the choices they make.
Cherokee
February 21st, 2013
11:40 pm
And the key to your second comment is ‘the same lifestyle.’ People who depend on food stamps, and other welfare programs, do NOT live well. I couyldn’t make it – my guess is that if you’re middle class or higher, you would have trouble also.
td
February 21st, 2013
11:46 pm
Cherokee
February 21st, 2013
11:40 pm
And the key to your second comment is ‘the same lifestyle.’ People who depend on food stamps, and other welfare programs, do NOT live well. I couyldn’t make it – my guess is that if you’re middle class or higher, you would have trouble also.
And from my experience of once working for DFCS I can tell you that I have spoken to many many people that get use to the circumstances they live in. Remember there are very few of the poor in this country that do not have AC, place to sleep, TV, Cable, internet and an IPhone (or similar type phone). If these people need a little more money then they know how to work under the table to get what they want.
td
February 21st, 2013
11:51 pm
Cherokee
February 21st, 2013
11:37 pm
I disagree td. Lots of people make bad choices and suffer no consequences at all – example, my grandpa smoked and lived to be 93 years old.
Some people are lucky, or unlucky, regardless of the choices they make.
The key to your statement is some and luck in most cases have to do with what you do when the chance is given to you (choice you make). Some people are also given the gifts to be able to sing, athletic, will be tall or handsome or teach. We are all different and none of us were born exactly equal so everyone has to work with what they are given.
Cherokee
February 21st, 2013
11:53 pm
I’m sure that’s true of some people. And we obviously shouldn’t support them forever. I just hear comments like that so often – ‘why don’t I just quit my job and let Obama give me a cell phone?’, for example.
And it’s silly – no one would choose to go from a middle class lifestyle to living in poverty just to collect $150 per month in food stamps or to get a free flip phone…
Cherokee
February 21st, 2013
11:56 pm
Let me give you a better example. Lots of folks worked for Enron, and invested all their 401K money in the company. Bad choice, right? Certainly in hindsight…
Thank goodness there is a government program – social security – so that those folks aren’t living on the street today, in spite of their bad choice.
td
February 21st, 2013
11:57 pm
Cherokee
February 21st, 2013
11:53 pm
Go do a little research my friend. We would not be spending more then $1 trillion per year on means tested programs if we only gave people $150 per month and a flip phone. If you are a single parent with two children then you can receive benefits worth between $20, 000 to $40,000 per year.
Cherokee
February 22nd, 2013
12:01 am
I’m not making my point clearly. You, nor I, would give up our middle class lifestyle (making an assumption about you obviously) to live off the government for $20 to $40 thousand per year.
td
February 22nd, 2013
12:04 am
Cherokee
February 21st, 2013
11:56 pm
Social Security is not a means tested program.
I worked for Lockheed way back in the 80’s. The day I got laid off I had $20,000 in my 401K and was in my early 20’s. My soon the be father in law told me to take the money and roll it into lockheed stock ($22 per share). I chose to take the money and take a year off of work and go to college full time when I could have worked part time and went to school. What do you think that choice has cost me today?
td
February 22nd, 2013
12:06 am
Cherokee
February 22nd, 2013
12:01 am
I got your point and agree that we would not but my point is a person that has never reached middle class and has no desire to reach middle class has no incentive to try to become self sufficient and why should they if they are OK with not reaching middle class?
Cherokee
February 22nd, 2013
12:07 am
Didn’t know we were limiting our discussion to ‘means tested’ programs.
And I have no clue about your choice – mainly ’cause I’m too tired to think about it…
Night….
Thulsa Doom
February 22nd, 2013
12:17 am
Look before I leap,
I never said or suggested anything in the way of abandoning people who are down on their luck or in a hard spot just because of foolish choices that they’ve made.
So if you have the idea that I’m all about “screw them, they made their own bed, let them lie in it” then you have the wrong opinion. I am merely stating that most people are in their situation because of choices they made. That doesn’t mean screw me or don’t help them.
I’ve been on record here numerous times as saying that I believe in a social safety net program. And I certainly do believe that we should help our fellow man when he’s temporarily down and out. We do that because its the right and decent thing to do- not because someone arbitrarily decides its somebody else’s responsibility to take care of someone else.
In a nutshell I’m absolutely in favor of social safety net programs and helping those from disadvantaged families- especially children who have no say in the circumstances they were born into. I just don’t believe in it becoming a way of life for generation after generation to be on welfare or for one person to be on welfare for extended periods of time. That’s all.
Byron Ellis
February 22nd, 2013
6:46 am
Has anybody thought about selling citizenships? It would seem we could make a dent in our debt/deficits by putting an appropriate price tag on a really hot commodity. Supply and demand really work.
Common Sense is Uncommon
February 22nd, 2013
12:02 pm
Making illegals legal does not create jobs. With more than 25% of our legal citizens unemployed and unable to find work, solving that problem should be the priority of this country and until such a time as the unemployment problem is solved there should be no discussion of adding to the problem by increasing the number of people that do not have jobs. There is no shortage of labor at this time. This administration just doesn’t get it. The immigration discussion is merely a distraction to keep the focus of the minions off the real problem which is our economy sucks and is not getting better.
Economic Analyst
February 25th, 2013
3:41 pm
Millions of Mexicans have fled the country’s woes. Between 1970 and 2008, the percentage of the Mexican-born population living in the U.S. grew from 1.5 percent to 11 percent—from about 760,000 to 11.8 million people, roughly 15 percent of the country’s potential male workforce. About 7 million are here illegally, making up 61 percent of the total illegal immigrant population, the Department of Homeland Security estimates. Most Mexicans have relatives living in the U.S., and as many as one in four households has at least one member here, surveys by Mexican polling firms show. The migration is self-perpetuating because the most likely to emigrate are those with relatives already here. Though the exodus has slowed a bit since the recession, Mexico’s National Population Council projects that it will last another 30 years or longer.
“The desire for a better life trumps even national pride: polls find that most Mexicans would be willing to join the two countries into one if doing so would raise their standard of living.”
So all it would take is a simple election!!
http://www.city-journal.org/2009/19_4_helping-mexico.html