Wisdom for our time, from Honest Abe’s time
Of the more than 40 presidents to occupy the White House, Abraham Lincoln was the only one whose presence was essential to the nation’s future.* The Great Cataclysm that occurred under his leadership had been building for decades and had become inevitable; had it occurred under those who came before him, or those who came after him, the Union as we know it would not have survived.
With that in mind, I’ve collected some pearls of wisdom from Honest Abe that hold particular relevance for our own times and challenges:
“The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate to the stormy present. The occasion is piled high with difficulty, and we must rise — with the occasion. As our case is new, so we must think anew, and act anew. We must disenthrall ourselves, and then we shall save our country.”
“The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves — in their separate, and individual capacities.”
“There is no grievance that is a fit object of redress by mob law.”
“I believe it is an established maxim in morals that he who makes an assertion without knowing whether it is true or false, is guilty of falsehood; and the accidental truth of the assertion, does not justify or excuse him.”
“I don’t believe in a law to prevent a man from getting rich; it would do more harm than good. So while we do not propose any war upon capital, we do wish to allow the humblest man an equal chance to get rich with everybody else”
—————————
*And yes, I confess that is artfully worded. We did have one other essential president, George Washington. Like Lincoln, he was uniquely qualified for the time in which he served.
But you see, Washington never lived in the White House.
– Jay Bookman
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553 comments Add your comment
Logical Dude
February 18th, 2013
2:28 pm
“We all declare for liberty; but in using the same word we do not all mean the same thing. With some the word liberty may mean for each man to do as he pleases with himself, and the product of his labor; while with others, the same word may mean for some men to do as they please with other men, and the product of other men’s labor. Here are two, not only different, but incompatible things, called by the same name – liberty. And it follows that each of the things is, by the respective parties, called by two different and incompatible names – liberty and tyranny.”
Tom Middleton
February 18th, 2013
2:29 pm
And Washington didn’t have political parties, either, at least not till he saw their early beginnings during his second term. Needless to say he grew deeply concerned, and we’ve been suffering like hell ever since!
josef
February 18th, 2013
2:35 pm
IMAM
Oh, dear…and that’s all I got to say about that (ha!)
So, what IS today in President’s Day history, other than a furlough day for those charged with out nation’s future?
Patrick
February 18th, 2013
2:35 pm
All that liberal claptrap from Lincoln! (just to get that out of the way).
Doggone/GA
February 18th, 2013
2:35 pm
“And Washington didn’t have political parties”
You’re welcome to you delusions. Of course there were political parties, when HAVEN’T there been?
Granny Godzilla
February 18th, 2013
2:36 pm
I am a firm believer in the people. If given the truth, they can be depended upon to meet any national crisis. The great point is to bring them the real facts.”
Abraham Lincoln
.
.
.
.
.
Oh the irony!
Tom Middleton
February 18th, 2013
2:39 pm
Doggone/GA
We’re not talking about the kind of parties where losers like you try to get laid.
Google it, Doggie…
Doggone/GA
February 18th, 2013
2:40 pm
“We’re not talking about the kind of parties where losers like you try to get laid”
And what makes you think *I* am?
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 18th, 2013
2:40 pm
So, what IS today in President’s Day history, other than a furlough day for those charged with out nation’s future?
Yoko Ono’s birthday
getalife
February 18th, 2013
2:41 pm
Facts do matter and when a President acts on what the majority wants, it does not get any better than that.
Jay
February 18th, 2013
2:41 pm
Don’t hold back, Josef:
Fishin’s no fun if’n the fish ain’t bitin’!
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
2:42 pm
Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. ~Abraham Lincoln
Abe would never have supported this right wing war against the working man…
Logical Dude
February 18th, 2013
2:43 pm
“I am not a Know-Nothing. That is certain. How could I be? How can any one who abhors the oppression of negroes, be in favor of degrading classes of white people? Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that “all men are created equal.” We now practically read it “all men are created equal, except Negroes.” When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read “all men are created equal, except Negroes and foreigners and Catholics.” When it comes to this, I shall prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”
Tom Middleton
February 18th, 2013
2:45 pm
“I like to see a man proud of the place in which he lives. I like to see a man live so his place will be proud of him.” Abraham Lincoln
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
2:45 pm
…that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the Earth. ~Abraham Lincoln
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
2:47 pm
Abraham Lincoln did not seek unity with Stephen A. Douglas. He made it clear that this Nation could not continue to exist half slave and half free. ~Harry S. Truman
MiltonMan
February 18th, 2013
2:48 pm
Cherry picking Lincoln’s quotes??? Here are some of mine:
Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.
Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves.
Sir, my concern is not whether God is on our side; my greatest concern is to be on God’s side, for God is always right.
Erwin's cat
February 18th, 2013
2:49 pm
I hear CT has asked Spielberg to re-shoot some scenes that cast CT reps in an opposite light on the slavery issue than what really happened…the movie shows CT law makers voting against abolitionism of slavery rather than for it
Tom Middleton
February 18th, 2013
2:50 pm
“You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.” -Abraham Lincoln
“I’ll let you be in my dream if I can be in yours.” -Bob Dylan
barking frog
February 18th, 2013
2:52 pm
Lincoln was a lawyer, Cheney would have shot him in the face.
Logical Dude
February 18th, 2013
2:54 pm
MiltonMan: Cherry picking Lincoln’s quotes???
Well, if we tried including them all, we’d probably get some lawyer up the AJC’s butt because of some stupid copyright issue. (okay okay, not really)
Dharma Bum
February 18th, 2013
2:55 pm
Some interesting thoughts here…
http://lightbox.time.com/2013/02/17/bringing-color-to-presidents-past/?hpt=hp_t2#1
“No one,” Kennedy told historian David Herbert Donald early in 1962, “has a right to grade a President — not even poor James Buchanan — who has not sat in his chair, examined the mail and information that came across his desk, and learned why he made decisions.”
josef
February 18th, 2013
2:58 pm
IMAM
Yeah, but it’s more frustrating for the fisherman when they don’t bite!
“If I were two-faced, would I be wearing this one?”
“I am a firm believer in the people. If given the truth, they can be depended upon to meet any national crisis. The great point is to bring them the real facts, and beer.”
“Tact is the ability to describe others as they see themselves.”
“Only Burnside could manage such a coup to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory”
josef
February 18th, 2013
3:00 pm
ERWIN’S
That one HAS been funny!
moonbat betty
February 18th, 2013
3:00 pm
“There’s an old saying in Tennessee — I know it’s in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can’t get fooled again.”
Robert Lee - Cogito ergo zoom
February 18th, 2013
3:01 pm
My personal favorite …..When I do good, I feel good. When I do bad, I feel bad. That’s my religion.
Abraham Lincoln
getalife
February 18th, 2013
3:05 pm
“Both parties deprecated war; but one of them would make war rather than let the nation survive; and the other would accept war rather than let it perish. And the war came …. Fondly do we hope — fervently do we pray — that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away.”
–From the March 4, 1865 Inaugural Address
Logical Dude
February 18th, 2013
3:07 pm
“The demon of intemperance ever seems to have delighted in sucking the blood of genius and of generosity.”
josef
February 18th, 2013
3:10 pm
Oh, and today in Presidential history? Jefferson Davis, tied for second place in my order of the worst of the Presidents, took the oath of office in Montgomery.
“Neither current events nor history show that the majority rule, or ever did rule.”
–Jefferson Davis
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
3:12 pm
Whereas, on the twenty second day of September, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty two, a proclamation was issued by the President of the United States, containing, among other things, the following, to wit:
“That on the first day of January, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty-three, all persons held as slaves within any State or designated part of a State, the people whereof shall then be in rebellion against the United States, shall be then, thenceforward, and forever free; and the Executive Government of the United States, including the military and naval authority thereof, will recognize and maintain the freedom of such persons, and will do no act or acts to repress such persons, or any of them, in any efforts they may make for their actual freedom.
GT
February 18th, 2013
3:13 pm
“if slavery is a good, it is a good that no one has ever chosen for himself”
Regnad Kcin
February 18th, 2013
3:15 pm
“I believe, if we take habitual drunkards as a class, their heads and their hearts will bear an advantageous comparison with those of any other class. There seems ever to have been a proneness in the brilliant and warm-blooded to fall into this vice.”
Regnad Kcin
February 18th, 2013
3:18 pm
“The true rule, in determining to embrace, or reject any thing, is not whether it have any evil in it; but whether it have more of evil, than of good. There are few things wholly evil, or wholly good. Almost every thing, especially of governmental policy, is an inseparable compound of the two; so that our best judgment of the preponderance between them is continually demanded.”
Fred ™
February 18th, 2013
3:18 pm
He can compress the most words into the smallest ideas of any man I ever met.
Abraham Lincoln
Tom Middleton
February 18th, 2013
3:19 pm
josef
There’s a bronze star on the capital steps in Montgomery to indicate where Davis stood. while taking the oath. Fortunately, and what saves Montgomery from this infamy, is that it’s very close to one of Hank Williams’ guitars.
Logical Dude
February 18th, 2013
3:21 pm
“The old general rule was that educated people did not perform manual labor. They managed to eat their bread, leaving the toil of producing it to the uneducated. This was not an insupportable evil to the working bees, so long as the class of drones remained very small. But now, especially in these free States, nearly all are educated–quite too nearly all, to leave the labor of the uneducated, in any wise adequate to the support of the whole. It follows from this that henceforth educated people must labor. Otherwise, education itself would become a positive and intolerable evil. No country can sustain, in idleness, more than a small percentage of its numbers. The great majority must labor at something productive.”
Road Scholar
February 18th, 2013
3:21 pm
Had a three week upper management training seminar once, and the only prerequisite was to read a book about Lincoln. Fascinating! The American public knows so little about this great man!
Happy President’s day!
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
3:21 pm
“Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves.” ~Abraham Lincoln
getalife
February 18th, 2013
3:22 pm
“I don’t know what to do or where to turn in this taxation matter. Somewhere there must be a book that tells all about it, where I could go to straighten it out in my mind. But I don’t know where the book is, and maybe I couldn’t read it if I found it.”
Warren G. Harding
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
3:23 pm
“Whenever I hear anyone arguing for slavery, I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally.” ~Abraham Lincoln
Erwin's cat
February 18th, 2013
3:23 pm
“I have endured a great deal of ridicule without much malice; and have received a great deal of kindness, not quite free from ridicule. I am used to it.”
Georgia on my mind...
February 18th, 2013
3:24 pm
Abraham Lincoln (from the Lincoln-Douglas debates, 1858)
That is the real issue that will continue in this country when those poor tongues of Judge Douglas and myself shall be silent. It is the eternal struggle between these two principles, right and wrong, throughout the world. They are the two principles that have stood face to face from the beginning of time. The one is the common right of humanity, the other the divine right of kings. It is the same principle in whatever shape it develops itself. It is the same spirit that says “you toil and work and earn bread and I’ll eat it.”
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
3:25 pm
We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection. The mystic chords of memory will swell when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature. ~Abraham Lincoln
Georgia on my mind...
February 18th, 2013
3:25 pm
The two principles were:
Working and Taking.
Road Scholar
February 18th, 2013
3:26 pm
JamVet: I hope the proclamation wasn’t an Executive Order, or conservative heads will melt.
saywhat?
February 18th, 2013
3:27 pm
Happy President’s Day everybody, or as Mitt Romney calls it, Monday.
Union
February 18th, 2013
3:34 pm
saywhat?
February 18th, 2013
3:27 pm
Happy President’s Day everybody, or as Mitt Romney calls it, Monday.
now thats funny… even though its not really presidents day.. unless they changed it and didnt tell us..
TaxPayer
February 18th, 2013
3:34 pm
If African Americans had been given the right to keep and bear arms from day one of the country’s founding, perhaps slavery might not have been a chapter in our history.
– Abraham Lincoln’s great grandson’s second cousin’s barber’s uncle’s son of a preacher man. Yes he was. He was. Ooooh… yes he was.
getalife
February 18th, 2013
3:35 pm
“Oh, no, we’re not going to have any casualties.” — w discussing the Iraq war with Christian Coalition founder Pat Robertson in 2003, as quoted by Robertson.
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
3:36 pm
Road Scholar you want to see a real hoot and holler. Next door Dave refers to him as one of the worst Federalist supremacists ever elected to office.
And shonuff.
That Federalist really did rain on their little “states rights” slavery parade, huh?!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8roidAxzNzU
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
3:36 pm
Happy President’s Day everybody, or as Mitt Romney calls it, Monday.
That really is a good one!
Stevie Ray
February 18th, 2013
3:39 pm
JAY
“The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves — in their separate, and individual capacities.”
I heard a blip of BO’s speak today in Springfield. Seems that guy never stops talking..
What do you suppose he meant by can’t do or can’t do so well? Did you think he envisioned the job of government would encompass all the entitlements of today…and the accompanied expense? Would he view this level of permanent “safety nets’ as entitlements or enablers?
I do think it would be good practice for our current and future occupants of the WH to select a mixed party cabinet…
getalife
February 18th, 2013
3:39 pm
Jam,
Aesop is Andy over there.
I thought he got banned.
Matti
February 18th, 2013
3:39 pm
Apparently, Lincoln quotes are like Bible verses: Good for cherry picking the ones you like.
First President of the U.S. (
February 18th, 2013
3:41 pm
Government is not reason, it is not eloquence- it is force! Like fire it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action.
Logical Dude
February 18th, 2013
3:41 pm
Stevie Ray: “Seems that guy never stops talking..”
So, he is criticized for “doing nothing” and also criticized for doing something?
Sheesh, make up your mind!
josef
February 18th, 2013
3:42 pm
LOGICAL
@ 3:41
getalife
February 18th, 2013
3:44 pm
Logical Dude,
They want it both ways.
Bilogical, if you will.
Erwin's cat
February 18th, 2013
3:44 pm
“Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any other one thing.”
alex
February 18th, 2013
3:46 pm
@ Matti; the mind-numbing omnipotence of the Google universe….
AmericaShrugged
February 18th, 2013
3:47 pm
“Things may come to those who wait, but only the things left by those who hustle.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Logical Dude
February 18th, 2013
3:47 pm
Alex, (and others who already did it)
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=abe+lincoln+quotes
getalife
February 18th, 2013
3:47 pm
“The minds of our cons should be studied by scientists like concussions” getalife
John F. Kennedy - January 20, 1961
February 18th, 2013
3:49 pm
If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich.
Jay
February 18th, 2013
3:50 pm
“I do think it would be good practice for our current and future occupants of the WH to select a mixed party cabinet…”
Yeah, tell it to Chuck Hagel.
Doggone/GA
February 18th, 2013
3:51 pm
“Things may come to those who wait, but only the things left by those who hustle
That isn’t completely true. I can think of LOTS of things that hustling won’t get you…but waiting will.
getalife
February 18th, 2013
3:51 pm
I am part of the majority so our President acted:
“Obama Plans Decade-Long Effort to Map Human Brain…” drudgey.
Jay
February 18th, 2013
3:52 pm
“Next door Dave refers to him as one of the worst Federalist supremacists ever elected to office.
You forgot to refer to him by his full title, “Self-Announced Constitutional Expert Dave …”
Doggone/GA
February 18th, 2013
3:52 pm
“Obama Plans Decade-Long Effort to Map Human Brain”
Gotta keep himself busy!
TR
February 18th, 2013
3:54 pm
“presence was essential…”. Humph, I would have been deeelighted to lead the Union armies into battle and I would have been right in front of those columns of brave men. Of course my mother, a southerner would have not favored it, and my Dad shirked his duties..NOT me….. “would have not survived”….sentimentalist popycock,Jay…….
barking frog
February 18th, 2013
3:54 pm
John Ashcroft comparing G.W. Bush to Lincoln before
the Judiciary Committee
http://www.justice.gov/archive/ag/testimony/2002/072502agtestimony.htm
AmericaShrugged
February 18th, 2013
3:55 pm
“The worst thing you can do for anyone you care about is anything that they can do on their own.”
― Abraham Lincoln
getalife
February 18th, 2013
3:56 pm
“Gotta keep himself busy!”
They should scan the brain of a con listening to President Obama.
I am pretty sure there is a defect.
josef
February 18th, 2013
3:58 pm
Washington is the capital of the United States of America. Lincoln is the capital of Nebraska. Any questions?
AmericaShrugged
February 18th, 2013
3:59 pm
Oxymoron of the day. Dog used “I” and “think” in the same sentence!
Doggone/GA
February 18th, 2013
4:00 pm
“Any questions?”
Only a comment: it would have been a bit difficult to name the US capital after a President who hadn’t even been born yet.
TBS
February 18th, 2013
4:00 pm
Jay and Jam
Get it right. It is “I’m a Constitutionalist. You do not have the intelligence for me to explain what the means”.
Hahahahahah
Doggone/GA
February 18th, 2013
4:00 pm
“Oxymoron of the day. Dog used “I” and “think” in the same sentence!”
So did you
Doggone/GA
February 18th, 2013
4:01 pm
And now I’m out for a while
Mama Says
February 18th, 2013
4:02 pm
The oddity of quotes and using them against others, is that they are usually contrived during a period in history in which all who read them firmly grasp them as their ally, in the fight for the morals in which they live.
Mama Says, 2013
You can use this Jay, it sums up the practice of quoting during a debate.
TBS
February 18th, 2013
4:03 pm
And never forget that he “accepts your unconditional surrender”….
Best clown on any blog, anywhere…
josef
February 18th, 2013
4:03 pm
DOGGONE
Erwin's cat
February 18th, 2013
4:03 pm
Washington is the capital of the United States of America. Lincoln is the capital of Nebraska. Any questions?
and Olympia is the capital of Washington
Lt Dan
February 18th, 2013
4:03 pm
Interesting fact: Lincoln’s son Robert was present at the death’s of three U.S. Presidents, all assassinated: his father, James Garfield (Robert was apponted to Garfield’s cabinet), and William McKinley (Robert was invited as a guest of the President). After McKinley’s death, Robert pretty much shunned himself from public appearances.
getalife
February 18th, 2013
4:04 pm
This is in Washington:
http://acebucheblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/lincolnmemorial.jpg
josef
February 18th, 2013
4:06 pm
Lt Dan
I don’t think I’d've invited him to 1600 were I the President…that boy was bad juju!
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
4:07 pm
Lincoln is the capital of Nebraska. Any questions?
No. The latter is named after the former!
First President of the U.S., we’re quoting Abraham Lincoln, not Glenn Beck!
Jay at 3:52, LOL!
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
February 18th, 2013
4:08 pm
Well, call the papers! For once I agree with josef about Lincoln.
Only my reasons are different. I think if Lincoln had of kept his federal troops up there and left us Southren states alone we wouldn’t have half of the problems we have today. You wouldn’t need to pay somebody to do some work for you and we wouldn’t have much guvmint because we’d be in national agreement that guvmint is bad, bad, bad. We wouldn’t even need to Succeed from the union. Who knows, I might be living in a mansion on a plantation instead of this kinda tiny trailer. Us guys would be setting the rules and we wouldn’t have these pushy females to deal with.
It’s all Lincoln’s fault—except for the problems Obama brung us.
josef
February 18th, 2013
4:09 pm
ZamVet
indigo
February 18th, 2013
4:10 pm
If Lincoln could see how far American politics has sunk into the outhouse today, he would weep bitter tears.
Stevie Ray
February 18th, 2013
4:10 pm
LOGICAL DUDE ET AL
I guess if you call giving speeches getting something accomplished he’s doing a ton….
Just seems like he spends a lot of time giving speeches…..last I heard he has given more speeches than the number of days in office. He has also apparently given the fewest press conferences than any on record.
Why do you suppose he avoids press conferences?
Stevie Ray
February 18th, 2013
4:13 pm
JAY
HAGEL….apparently the GOP has disowned him to a large degree. Therefore he counts not.
Those bad old Republicans…they do everything wrong eh Jay? Thank god we have the DEMS who apparently do everything right eh?
getalife
February 18th, 2013
4:14 pm
stevie,
Why do you suppose you are obsessed with attacking him?
Lt Dan
February 18th, 2013
4:14 pm
Josef: you really want to read of bad luck, from some reading I did, it appears all of the people who were around Lincoln on the evening of his assissination had something bad happen to them. The officer who was with Linocoln in his box seat later went insane and killed his wife; the doctor who attended Lincoln I think also later commintted suicide.
What is typical of our government was that it took a successful assissination for them to decide on creating the Secret Service. There was an attempt on Andrew Jackson, but the man’s pistol mis-fired and Jackson beat him with his walking cane.
Theodore Roosevelt was shot before giving a speach, but gave the speech anyway and was later given medical treatment. I think the bullet was slowed by passing through his clothing, papers, and a small metal case of some kind.
TBS
February 18th, 2013
4:15 pm
Stevie
I would say the lack of press conferences is worthy of mentioning, but it accomplishes how much more than speeches?
Wilbur
February 18th, 2013
4:15 pm
Democrat lawmakers in Washington state are proposing an annual door to door inspection of gun owners’ homes by the police.
I bet Abe would not have thought that a good idea.
Erwin's cat
February 18th, 2013
4:16 pm
he would weep bitter tears. If Lincoln could see how far American politics has sunk into the outhouse today,
I’d have to think he witnessed worse…civil war is hardly polite discourse
Christian Conservative
February 18th, 2013
4:17 pm
Why did you leave out Reagan Jay? He is certainly the greatest President in recent history….
Jefferson
February 18th, 2013
4:19 pm
The party of Lincoln, what happened ?
josef
February 18th, 2013
4:19 pm
Lt DAN
I had read some of that…
Stevie Ray
February 18th, 2013
4:20 pm
TBS
February 18th, 2013
4:15 pm
Because avoiding one and focusing on the other allows him to avoid real tough questions and completely control the information agenda.
Speeches really don’t accomplish much except to connect with the folks he already has in the bag..
getalife
February 18th, 2013
4:21 pm
Our union survived a civil war and w.
The State of our Union is strong.
josef
February 18th, 2013
4:21 pm
A question…why Lincoln and not Washington today?
Itchy Finger
February 18th, 2013
4:21 pm
That obama energy policy sure is working out well… For the gubmint & gas companies that is…
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tom-blumer/2013/02/17/true-national-average-gas-price-likely-higher-press-reporting#ixzz2LGi7uI7X
indigo
February 18th, 2013
4:21 pm
Erwin – 4:16
Lincoln would know the Civil War was long over.
He would expect, in over 150 years of American politics, to see a great deal of civil improvement.
Instead, he would see today’s politicians acting like spoiled children, not the statesmen he would hope to see.
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
4:21 pm
He is certainly the greatest President in recent history….
Funny.
But only in terms of criminal prosecutions and convictions in an American administration.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6O3rKQfCF0
Jay
February 18th, 2013
4:21 pm
“Why did you leave out Reagan Jay? He is certainly the greatest President in recent history….”
I’m surprised you think that way, Christian. You mean the gun-grabbing, abortion-supporting, tax-raising, amnesty-granting, nuke-weapon-abolishing, union-supporting Ronald Reagan? The guy who today would be laughed out of the GOP?
Granny Godzilla
February 18th, 2013
4:23 pm
AmericaShrugged
February 18th, 2013
3:55 pm
“The worst thing you can do for anyone you care about is anything that they can do on their own.”
― Abraham Lincoln
.
.
.
.
Ain’t buying this one…..
Can you cite a source?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 18th, 2013
4:24 pm
Why did you leave out Reagan Jay? He is certainly the greatest President in recent history….
[R]ecently departed President George W. Bush already ranks close to the top in polls of historians asked to rank the worst president in American history. Rather than wade into the thicket of which men best or worst served their nation during their time in the White House, we would like to offer a different kind of list. Here are five presidents who routinely rank far above what their performance in office deserves in surveys considering presidential performance: …President Reagan ushered in the misguided era of massive deficits, bloated military spending and tax cuts for the very rich that America still struggles to this day to put to an end. Yet Reagan wrongly receives credit for the economic boom that began a few years into his presidency due to events entirely outside of his control. When Reagan took office, America faced double-digit inflation rates matched with a sharp spike in unemployment. Federal Reserve Chair Paul Volcker, a Carter appointee, chose to break the first problem by exacerbating the second — driving up interest rates in a successful effort to break inflation. When Volcker finally took the brakes off the economy and ended the recession he created by lowering interest rates back to more normal levels, housing and auto sales took off, the economy boomed back to life, and Reagan rode the undeserved credit to a second term in the White House.
As Rosalynn Carter once said, Reagan made America “comfortable with our prejudices.” Reagan infamously began the final leg of his presidential campaign by traveling to the Mississippi town where three civil rights workers were brutally murdered and proclaiming “I believe in states’ rights.” Reagan ignored the AIDS crisis for years. He gave us Justice Antonin Scalia. And he tried and failed to appoint another justice who once claimed that the federal ban on whites-only lunch counters is rooted in a “principle of unsurpassed ugliness.”
getalife
February 18th, 2013
4:24 pm
“Speeches really don’t accomplish much except to connect with the folks he already has in the bag..”
Yes, acting on what the majority elected him to do and to give details to those actions.
The idea is to get the majority to pressure congress but if they fail like they have been doing, he will act without them.
Stevie Ray
February 18th, 2013
4:24 pm
Itchy Finger
February 18th, 2013
4:21 pm
The president(s) really have no meaningful impact on gas prices…they can tap reserve but not sure that would impact pricing….Notice how the speculators who do control the pricing always have some BS reason when costs fluctuate..especially abnormally?
Jay
February 18th, 2013
4:25 pm
” Thank god we have the DEMS who apparently do everything right eh?”
No, Stevie Ray. It’s like that old joke about outrunning the bear. The Democrats don’t have to do everything right. They just have to do fewer things wrong than the Republicans, which these days is a very low low bar.
Erwin's cat
February 18th, 2013
4:25 pm
indigo – >/i>He would expect, in over 150 years of American politics, to see a great deal of civil improvement.
I really can’t speak to Lincoln’s expectations….I wasn’t there and I never knew him
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
February 18th, 2013
4:27 pm
“I can either run the country or I can attend to Alice, but I cannot possibly do both.”
T. Roosevelt commenting on his daughter Alice Roosevelt Longworth
Stevie Ray
February 18th, 2013
4:27 pm
Jay
February 18th, 2013
4:21 pm
Is Reagan best compared to what’s happening today or what happened during his term? Like all presidents, he did things that were popular and unpopular…
I think ranking presidents is useless. Some of course are clearly not worthy. Seems to me how the issues of that time handled and how the country was left to the next occupant is most important…
Erwin's cat
February 18th, 2013
4:27 pm
pardon my fat fingers and lack of opposable thumbs today…
Ekko Chamber
February 18th, 2013
4:29 pm
“Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe”
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
February 18th, 2013
4:30 pm
Achoo!!
William Henry Harrison
getalife
February 18th, 2013
4:30 pm
reagan was a bad President.
Not sure why the cons love him because he granted amnesty, cut and ran in Beirut and blew up the deficit.
Stevie Ray
February 18th, 2013
4:30 pm
Jay
February 18th, 2013
4:25 pm
Can’t disagree with that..of course you wouldn’t know it from the left posters here….
The sad truth is that the only way the GOP comes into vogue is if the DEMS/Obama’s plans, especially PelosiCare, explode. Seems the popularity of one party is governed not by what they accomplish but by how the other side has screwed up..
williebkind
February 18th, 2013
4:33 pm
Hey its presidents day! Did Obama the king violate the constitution today with another “executive order”?
Christian Conservative
February 18th, 2013
4:33 pm
Jay
“Why did you leave out Reagan Jay? He is certainly the greatest President in recent history….”
I’m surprised you think that way, Christian. You mean the gun-grabbing, abortion-supporting, tax-raising, amnesty-granting, nuke-weapon-abolishing, union-supporting Ronald Reagan? The guy who today would be laughed out of the GOP?
Reagan was a leader Jay. Something we certainly don’t have now. If Reagan had the Congress that he has now he would have this country headed in the right direction… All those ridiculous comments are frivolous at best…. He was certainly respected by every nation as was Bush. Clintoon and the current White House buffoon were laughed at…
TBS
February 18th, 2013
4:33 pm
Stevie
If you believe that rock on buddy
I agree that the lack of being questioned begs the question, but many have submitted themselves to more questions, but that didn’t prove to show them to be any better at their job..
TR
February 18th, 2013
4:33 pm
It was my glasses case and by golly it was a LONG speech, but I felt as strong as a Bull Moose! Remember dear Mckinnley’s demise brought me into power and Harrison’s Doctors hastened his demise with their incessant probing….
Erwin's cat
February 18th, 2013
4:33 pm
“Gazuntite”
John Tyler
Christian Conservative
February 18th, 2013
4:34 pm
JamVet
He is certainly the greatest President in recent history….
Funny.
Was he impeached? Oh wait that was your boy Clintoon….
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
4:34 pm
Reagan was certainly respected by every right wing dictator/murderous thug and their death squads around the globe…
williebkind
February 18th, 2013
4:35 pm
“No, Stevie Ray. It’s like that old joke about outrunning the bear. The Democrats don’t have to do everything right. They just have to do fewer things wrong than the Republicans, which these days is a very low low bar.”
I would not know what wrongs the democrats do those evils are never reported and never discussed in detail.
Stevie Ray
February 18th, 2013
4:36 pm
TBS
It is a fact that avoiding press conferences and the mainstream media in general is a bona fide marketing strategy planned and practiced. That’s why he spends all his time out in the field..difficult questions he avoids could actually be the way to win over folks from the other (floundering) side…
Of course honesty, for anyone in DC, remains elusive.
josef
February 18th, 2013
4:36 pm
DDR
Love Princess Alice…
To Sen. McCarthy when he addressed her by her first name:
“The policeman and the trash man may call me Alice; you.can.not.”
About Dorothy Parker:
“Dorothy is the only woman in history who has had her menopause in public and made it pay.”
Mama Says
February 18th, 2013
4:37 pm
Surely we an all agree that no politician which held office during our early years would recognize the country today.
Even the liberals of the time held some pretty conservative views.
The overall argument made by cons has been and continues to prove true.
The fact is that the more modern we become the more liberal the country is.
Social Security is not performing as it was suppose to, the welfare process has become bloated with more and more expenditures and red tape and we are currently arguing over the right to own guns.
I doubt seriously any politician back in the day would support any of what they would see now.
It seems that in the attempt to do good liberals have tasked all of us to do everything. Liberals have managed to take a simple issue of taxes and turn it into a political argument. If you were really serious the loopholes would have been gone when you had the power in the first two years of the administration, cons could not stop you. Yet you never addressed the issue, you played the game with it.
I guess the biblical saying of teach a man to fish has succumbed to simply just give him the fish. The reason being that the liberals wanted to subsidize the fishing pole and the cons said he could make it himself.
While we argue the handouts grow larger and larger, as does our debt. The only thing getting smaller in degree are the are the amount of actual people paying taxes and the American work ethic.
A Simple Man
February 18th, 2013
4:37 pm
Interesting that no one quotes where Lincoln declared his legal power comes from that allowed him to send in troops against the South. I guess the same place President-Who-Can-Do-No-Wrong get’s his drone powers. Just sayin…
Redneck had it right.
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
4:39 pm
I would not know what wrongs the democrats do those evils are never reported and never discussed in detail.
Here ya go:
The 50 Most Popular Conservative Websites
1) Fox News: 260
The Washington Times: 4,717
2) Wall Street Journal: 383
3) The Drudge Report: 748
4) New York Post: 888
5) WorldNetDaily: 2,692
6) Newsmax: 3,264
7) Free Republic: 3,988
9) TownHall: 5,986
10) The Rush Limbaugh Show: 7,624
11) Real Clear Politics: 7,957
12) National Review: 10,346
13) Hot Air: 11,517
14) Michelle Malkin: 12,871
15) Glenn Beck: 13,153
16) Human Events Online: 17,538
17) The Heritage Foundation: 20,746
18) Newsbusters: 21,452
19) Lew Rockwell: 24,677
20) The Weekly Standard: 25,565
21) News With Views: 27,352
22) Sean Hannity: 28,086
23) Pajamas Media 28,969
24) The Ludwig von Mises Institute: 29,116
25) Atlas Shrugs: 29,548
26) The American Thinker: 29,980
27) Cybercast News Service: 32,348
28) Neal Boortz: 32,857
29) Reason: 33,254
30) Lucianne: 34,135
31) Ann Coulter 36,864
32) The Cato Journal: 39,187
33) Daily Paul: 41,465
34) The Volokh Conspiracy: 42,021
35) Bill O’Reilly: 42,533
36) Redstate: 42,655
37) Conservapedia: 43,866
38) Power Line: 44,542
39) Jewish World Review: 44,765
40) Front Page Magazine: 48,645
41) Daniel Pipes: 49,692
42) Little Green Footballs: 49,844
43) Campaign for Liberty: 50,638
44) The American Spectator: 52,377
45) Commentary: 55,447
46) GOPUSA: 58,771
47) James Lileks’: 60,536
48) Right Wing News: 63,097
49) Wizbang: 63,427
50) Day by Day: 63,455
51) Moonbattery: 67,850
52) Life News: 69,493
53) Vdare: 70,866
54) Debbie Schlussel: 73,543
55) Republican National Committee: 73,599
56) Lifesitenews: 73,823
57) Dick Morris: 77,187
58) Blackfive: 83,031
59) Outside the Beltway: 83,455
60) American Conservative: 90,579
Stevie Ray
February 18th, 2013
4:39 pm
IMO, some of the best presidents did little or nothing during tenure..generally they did not screw things up more.
It is a puzzle to devise variables to evaluate most accomplished presidents…
Itchy Finger
February 18th, 2013
4:40 pm
Stevie Ray
The president(s) really have no meaningful impact on gas prices…they can tap reserve but not sure that would impact pricing….Notice how the speculators who do control the pricing always have some BS reason when costs fluctuate..especially abnormally?
President Bush certainly got blamed for it…. obama seems to get a pass…
alex
February 18th, 2013
4:40 pm
In Alice’s “salon” there was a pillow emblazoned with :” If you have nothing nice to say, come sit right next to me”. and yes, she was a republican……( which is better than DeLaurian’s wife’s which said neuvo rich is better than neuvou poor)–Rock on alice.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 18th, 2013
4:40 pm
That’s why he spends all his time out in the field..difficult questions he avoids could actually be the way to win over folks from the other (floundering) side…
Surely you are flailing. Not even Boehner can deliver his own party to vote for GOP plans and the GOP collectively opposes anything Obama is for (intentionally). There is no other side to “win over” in Congress. Only by putting public pressure of the “people” on members of Congress has movement been obtained and even that is not nearly as strong as it should be.
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
February 18th, 2013
4:41 pm
“For every fatal shooting, there were roughly three non-fatal shootings. And, folks, this is unacceptable in America. It’s just unacceptable. And we’re going to do something about it.”
GWB –Philadelphia, Penn., May 14, 2001
Stevie Ray
February 18th, 2013
4:41 pm
JAMVET
I have found RealClearPolitics to simply be a consolidator of news and opinions…left and right..maybe I’m missing something?
Christian Conservative
February 18th, 2013
4:43 pm
getalife
reagan was a bad President.
Not sure why the cons love him because he granted amnesty, cut and ran in Beirut and blew up the deficit.
An Obama supporter claims Reagan blew up the deficit…. Was that statement supposed to be a joke?
Stevie Ray
February 18th, 2013
4:43 pm
Itchy Finger
February 18th, 2013
4:40 pm
So what…anyone on either side who suggests a sitting president has meaningful impact on gas prices is just playing typical DEM v GOP BS.
I guess he/she could carpet bomb the bigger sources of oil but that won’t happen..
How about those electric cars?
Itchy Finger
February 18th, 2013
4:45 pm
Who would have thought. Howard Dean being honest. Dems want to raise taxes on the middle class to pay for more food stamps & obama phones….
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/02/18/howard-dean-middle-class-tax-increases-needed-to-save-social-programs/
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
February 18th, 2013
4:46 pm
hiya josef!
Of course someone like Alice R. would be my favorite!! I LOVE a strong, feisty, I’ll say what I wanna say dangit” woman. Especially someone from her time!
=================
ASM: Interesting that no one quotes where Lincoln declared his legal power comes from that allowed him to send in troops against the South.
The south attacked Ft. Sumpter – a GOVERNMENT land owned entity. Lincoln did not strike the first blow — the south did.
Without the South/Ft.Sumter — perhaps the civil war would’ve never started.
==================
“This is an impressive crowd — the haves and the have mores. Some people call you the elite — I call you my base.”
GWB –at the 2000 Al Smith dinner
Itchy Finger
February 18th, 2013
4:46 pm
obama plays golf with Tiger as Americans continue to suffer…
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/02/17/obama-plays-golf-in-florida-with-tiger-woods/
Erwin's cat
February 18th, 2013
4:47 pm
“For every fatal shooting, there were roughly three non-fatal shootings. And, folks, this is unacceptable in America. It’s just unacceptable. And we’re going to do something about it.”
it’s almost 5 to 1 now
http://www.rit.edu/cla/cpsi/WorkingPapers/2012/2012-08.pdf
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 18th, 2013
4:48 pm
Liberals have managed to take a simple issue of taxes and turn it into a political argument.
Grover Norquist says, “What?”
Jay
February 18th, 2013
4:48 pm
Simple Man, I guess it would be the same power that George Washington used to put down the Whiskey Rebellion, installing himself as the head of the army that marched against the rebels. Nobody questioned it at time, even though all the drafters of the Constitution were right there watching.
You’ve also got this:
“No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation…”
and
“Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort….”
Firing on Fort Sumter by definition was an act of treason under the Constitution.
Stevie Ray
February 18th, 2013
4:48 pm
Itchy Finger
February 18th, 2013
4:40 pm
You know, last december I was attending a healthcare PE thingy in DC. Howard Dean was one of the panelists..I always thought very little of him. My mind was completely changed when he provided honest commentary of the negative impact to providers of PelosiCare..
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
February 18th, 2013
4:48 pm
May God save the country, for it is evident that the people will not.
Millard Fillmore
Itchy Finger
February 18th, 2013
4:49 pm
Stevie Ray:
obama has blocked drilling. He has also imposed more regulations on gas companies and energy companies than any President. He does have an impact whether or not you want to admit it…
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 18th, 2013
4:49 pm
Without the South/Ft.Sumter — perhaps the civil war would’ve never started
Oh noooooo….. You have released the
Krakenjosef.alex
February 18th, 2013
4:50 pm
@ Jamvet, perhaps he was also respected by the vaunted Soviet Union..Perhaps he was at least partialy responsible for the dismemberment of the USSR,perhaps that is good(?), perhaps after Carter this country needed a leader, warts and all, but a leader…perhaps he made mistakes and could have done better..
“Mr. Gorbachec tear down this wall”….. and pass the vodka, Nancy and her friends sre driving me crazy and that Raisa is (was) a hottie….
josef
February 18th, 2013
4:50 pm
“My father always wanted to be the corpse at every funeral, the bride at every wedding and the baby at every christening.”
–Alice Roosevelt Longworth
When LBJ was showing his surgery scar:
“Thank G-d it wasn’t his prostate!”
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
4:54 pm
Perhaps he was at least partialy responsible for the dismemberment of the USSR,perhaps that is good(?)
No question.
Ronnie made some gargantuan mistakes and surrounded himself with criminals but I cut him some slack nowadays.
Probably because of GWB!
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
February 18th, 2013
4:54 pm
I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.
Thomas Jefferson
================
Honorable mention — here’s another TJ quote:
The Witch set me up
Thomas “You Da Man” Jefferson concerning his relationship with Sally Hemmings
Jay
February 18th, 2013
4:55 pm
“He was certainly respected by every nation as was Bush. Clintoon and the current White House buffoon were laughed at…
Oh yeah. The Iranians sure respected him. He sent them a cake and a Bible! Oh, and the Lebanese! They respected him for turning tail and retreating after hundreds of our Marines were slaughtered in Beirut, and then taking it out on mighty Grenada. And the Israelis were no doubt in awe when they learned that he had been there in person filming the liberation of Nazi concentration camps.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 18th, 2013
4:57 pm
“Too many good docs are getting out of the business. Too many OB-GYNs aren’t able to practice their love with women all across this country.”
– George W. Bush
Stevie Ray
February 18th, 2013
4:58 pm
Itchy Finger
February 18th, 2013
4:49 pm
I don’t think that would meaningfully change prices any time soon. The speculators control all of that with futures trading. If we got rid of that, you may have something the.
josef
February 18th, 2013
5:00 pm
“No man is good three times,”
On cousin Frankie’s third election.
Stevie Ray
February 18th, 2013
5:03 pm
Jay
February 18th, 2013
4:55 pm
Sure his middle east play was pretty awful but in other areas of the world, particularly Europe, he did ok. The current occupant is witnessing the biggest mess in the ME that anyone can remember…
I do like that fact that he prefers to let others take the helm over there..we got no business meddling in the tents of others..any others but you wouldn’t know it historically as we are empirialist dadgummit!
I’d like to see us bring all the troops home..everywhere, now. We should be ashamed at the insecurity we possess (for no good reason) the requires us to spend 500 trillion on defending the universe from things we don’t like..
Erwin's cat
February 18th, 2013
5:03 pm
“No man is good three times,”
If he was that would be exceptional
TBS
February 18th, 2013
5:03 pm
Jam
Reagan should get the credit for toppling the Soviet Union
But all should know and acknowledge, if they are truthful, Soviets were already in trouble and Reagan sucked a$$ in a lot of other areas..
getalife
February 18th, 2013
5:03 pm
“Was that statement supposed to be a joke?”
We, the majority use facts and live in the real world.
Join us.
getalife
February 18th, 2013
5:05 pm
Afghanistan took down the Soviet Union.
комиссар (Occupation)
February 18th, 2013
5:05 pm
Labor is prior to and independent of capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.
[...]
A few men own capital, and that few avoid labor themselves, and with their capital hire or buy another few to labor for them.
- December 3, 1861
Stevie Ray
February 18th, 2013
5:07 pm
500 billion that is…
Jefferson
February 18th, 2013
5:07 pm
President Reagan, was the 1st divoiced president, the 1st of the big spenders, ordered Iran Contra (a 2nd lt. don’t make those calls) and was a movie star with fans.
alex
February 18th, 2013
5:07 pm
and to you Josef, the penultimate Alice quote @ 5:00, salutation and happy readings, haven’t picked up the Faulkner, yet….
Thomas
February 18th, 2013
5:08 pm
I look more to Ricky Henderson for my inspiration and tend to fade posers such as dear old Abe and George-
In the early 1980s, the Oakland A’s accounting department was freaking out. The books were off $1 million. After an investigation, it was determined Rickey was the reason why. The GM asked him about a $1 million bonus he had received and Rickey said instead of cashing it, he framed it and hung it on a wall at his house.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 18th, 2013
5:08 pm
Afghanistan took down the Soviet Union.
With us supplying them.
Carter warned us of petro dollars funding extremists.
getalife
February 18th, 2013
5:10 pm
nixon was a nasty con that started the money pit called the war on weed.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 18th, 2013
5:11 pm
“Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.”
– George W. Bush
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
February 18th, 2013
5:11 pm
Oh noooooo….. You have released the Kraken josef.
===============
@Itchy finger — Congress (who makes laws and holds the purse strings), is on vacation while America suffers………..
===============
The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much it is whether we provide enough for those who have little.
Franklin D. Roosevelt
=========================
I know I am getting better at golf because I am hitting fewer spectators.
Gerald R. Ford
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlz0he9rtKw
Stevie Ray
February 18th, 2013
5:11 pm
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 18th, 2013
5:08 pm
It seems to me that Charlie Wilson as opposed to “us” pushed to get rocket launchers to bring down helicopters..then they got used to kill us…funny how that works.
getalife
February 18th, 2013
5:11 pm
“Carter warned us of petro dollars funding extremists.”
He was right and President during “Argo”.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 18th, 2013
5:13 pm
..then they got used to kill us…funny how that works.
I can think of many words to describe this issue, but “funny” isn’t one of them
Jefferson
February 18th, 2013
5:14 pm
President Nixon was scared of John Lennon and freedom. President Reagan outspent the USSR. President Johnson was not a good bookkeeper.
Mama Says
February 18th, 2013
5:14 pm
Right or wrong Kam,
Obama and the democrats could have taken every loophole out of the tax system when they had all chambers of government in Obamas first two years .
philosopher
February 18th, 2013
5:15 pm
Christian Conservative: ” If Reagan had the Congress that he has now he would have this country headed in the right direction…
If by “the right direction”, you mean YOUR direction…NO THANKS. .Jesus’ instructions to us are about as liberal as it gets ….How disturbing it all must be…
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 18th, 2013
5:16 pm
… when they had all chambers of government in Obamas first two years .
All chambers?
False.
Jefferson
February 18th, 2013
5:16 pm
Those tax loopholes will be gone soon, mom — keep your shirt on.
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
5:16 pm
TBS, in my view, Reagan’s role in the downfall of the USSR was more symbolic than anything. He championed it as a cause, and it was a damn good cause.
There can be no doubt that other much more important causes and reasons were behind the actual downfall. As noted by a real foreign policy expert, Richard Nixon, who had concerns about Reagan’s intellect and wrote that he was “shallow” and of “limited mental capacity”…
alex
February 18th, 2013
5:16 pm
facts?….do you mean unassailable truths , e.g. a law of physics….I wish political OPINION columns where so cut and dried, but then again, how much fun would that be?….
weetamoe
February 18th, 2013
5:17 pm
Artfully worded. Another name for question begging?
I have seen our present president himself tell two blatant lies. I mention them because they took place fairly recently and could be seen and heard during interviews on national television. Both were mendacious claims against those he sees as his enemies. They are not the only pants on fire claims noted by fact checkers, but the ones I saw myself. He claimed Bush responsible for the Fast and Furious action and he insisted the sequester was introduced by republicans.
My New England schools had a slightly more jaundiced view of Abe. But whatever his transgressions, the fact that Doris Kearns Goodwin invokes his name during almost every interview is much more punishment than he deserves.
TBS
February 18th, 2013
5:21 pm
Jam
We agree more than you realize..
Overall I am not a fan of Reagan and have expressed as much..
Can we get a Thulsa around here? He will tell us how he was the real Super Man
td
February 18th, 2013
5:23 pm
All this revisionist history of who the true Lincoln was. Lincoln was a dictator that did not really free any slaves and really wanted all blacks to go back to Africa. Lincoln totally ignored the Bill of Rights and illegally started a war with the South.
“Garrison knew Lincoln well. He knew that Lincoln stated over and over again for his entire adult life that he did not believe in social or political equality of the races, he opposed inter-racial marriage, supported the Illinois constitution’s prohibition of immigration of blacks into the state, once defended in court a slaveowner seeking to retrieve his runaway slaves but never defended a runaway, and that he was a lifelong advocate of colonization — of sending every last black person in the U.S. to Africa, Haiti, or central America — anywhere but in the U.S.”
http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo12.html
“The Dictator Lincoln invaded the South without the consent of Congress, as called for in the Constitution; declared martial law; blockaded Southern ports without a declaration of war, as required by the Constitution; illegally suspended the writ of habeas corpus; imprisoned without trial thousands of Northern anti-war protesters, including hundreds of newspaper editors and owners; censored all newspaper and telegraph communication; nationalized the railroads; created three new states without the consent of the citizens of those states in order to artificially inflate the Republican Party’s electoral vote; ordered Federal troops to interfere with Northern elections to assure Republican Party victories; deported Ohio Congressman Clement L. Vallandigham for opposing his domestic policies (especially protectionist tariffs and income taxation) on the floor of the House of Representatives; confiscated private property, including firearms, in violation of the Second Amendment; and effectively gutted the Tenth and Ninth Amendments as well.”
Escaped from Email Purgatory
February 18th, 2013
5:25 pm
“Don’t boo… vote! It’s the best revenge!”
Which tall, thin man uttered those inspirational words during cataclysmic times?
Bookman draws a not-so-subtle parallel between Lincoln and Obama through a comparison of the tumultuous times in which each presided over America.
That’s rich.
If history ever hands out Presidential jockstraps, Honest Abe needs a XXL; Obama? How small a size do they come in?
Wake me up when BHO does something more significant than make liberals’ legs tingle.
Jefferson
February 18th, 2013
5:25 pm
as always, td is full
комиссар (Occupation)
February 18th, 2013
5:26 pm
One quibble, Jay Bookman.
Nothing of Abraham Lincoln’s true lesson for us today really has anything to do with “wisdom”.
Wisdom is the stuff of self-help books and TED seminars, the cozy realm of comfortable truisms that steers clear of the truly explosive, irresolvable antagonisms. It avoids ruffling feathers. It has nothing to do with 600,000 plus dead on battlefields for the sole purpose of rooting out an idea that many pragmatic and genteel-minded folk would just as soon have lived with.
To give you an idea what “wisdom” actually looks like, look at this –> http://www.emory.edu/EMORY_MAGAZINE/issues/2013/winter/register/president.html.
Needless to say, it has nothing whatsoever to do with what Abraham Lincoln was doing.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 18th, 2013
5:26 pm
Lew Rockwell
There’s your sign.
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
February 18th, 2013
5:29 pm
Bush’s CABINET was responsible for Fast & Furious — if you saw in Politifact where that was a pants on fire, then you must’ve been looking at the wrong information.
=============
Obama and the democrats could have taken every loophole out of the tax system when they had all chambers of government in Obamas first two years .
These are the things Obama and the Demorcrats had to do when he came into office in 2008:
Stop a recession
Manage the debt
Stop/slow down the escalation of job losses
Stop/slow down the mortgage fiasco
A quick list of some of the things he got done in his first 100 days:
**January 26 – Obama signs his first two Presidential Memoranda concerning energy independence, directing the Department of Transportation to establish higher fuel efficiency standards before 2011 models are released and the allowing states to raise their emissions standards above the national standard.[21] T
** Obama signs his first bill, the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, which promotes fair pay regardless of sex, race, or age.
**Obama signs a presidential memorandum launching the Middle Class Working Families Task Force to be led by Vice President Joe Biden
***Obama announces that companies receiving large amounts of federal bailout money through the Troubled Assets Relief Program (TARP) must cap top executive pay at US$500,000.[35] Obama signs the Children’s Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act of 2009 reauthorizing and expanding the Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP).[36][37][38] Secretary of the Interior Ken Salazar cancels 77 leases sold by the previous administration to oil and gas companies, while letting 39 leases stand.[39].
===============
This is what the Republican congress did their first 100 days in office:
Complain/Blame Obama.
Try to repeal Obamacare
Complain/Blame Obama. some more
Go on vacation
Complain/Blame Obama.
Try to repeal Obamacare
Holiday time off
Complain/Blame Obama.
Try to repeat Obamacare AGAIN…………
And fially…..
Complain/Blame Obama.
getalife
February 18th, 2013
5:29 pm
If the cons were consistent in their beliefs, they would hate reagan but their beliefs change daily to attack our President.
Brosephus™
February 18th, 2013
5:30 pm
“You’re damned if you do. You’re damned if you don’t.”
–Abraham Hussein Lincoln
Just seems like he spends a lot of time giving speeches…..last I heard he has given more speeches than the number of days in office. He has also apparently given the fewest press conferences than any on record.
Shorter: I don’t like him giving speeches unless it’s the kind of speeches I like.
If he has a press conference, then he’s going to make a statement or speech before accepting questions. Maybe you should suggest that he uses his appearances as town hall type functions. I think more people would be concerned if the president hid behind the liberal biased media instead of communicating with us.
You can’t possibly want the liberal president to hide behind the liberal media, can you?
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
5:30 pm
This is the quality of site that you troll around and get your info from, td???
http://www.lewrockwell.com/
Looks like a political version of the National Enquirer!
Bernie
February 18th, 2013
5:33 pm
Jay, May I remind you that Abe is not so revered around these parts. This is not Pennsylvania!
Abe was the one who approved the order to burn Atlanta to the ground. Everything was Burned down from here to SAVANNAH! Every home,business,Plantation,shack, and outhouse was set to Flames!
It took three generations for any of it, to return to any recognizable beauty. Its anger is still seething just below the surface to this day. There is no great love in the White Southern Man’s heart for good ole Abe.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 18th, 2013
5:33 pm
Obama and the Democrats could have invented a floor wax/dessert topping when they had control of Congress! — Thomas Jefferson
td
February 18th, 2013
5:33 pm
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
5:30 pm
This is the quality of site that you troll around and get your info from, td???
http://www.lewrockwell.com/
Looks like a political version of the National Enquirer!
Lew Rockwell did not write the article or the books, so why do you want to bash the site and not talk about the author. BTW: This was the first time I have ever been to the site because I am not a Libertarian due to some of their nutty stances.
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
February 18th, 2013
5:34 pm
wis·dom
/ˈwizdəm/
Noun
The quality of having experience, knowledge, and good judgment; the quality of being wise.
The soundness of an action or decision with regard to the application of such experience, knowledge, and good judgment.
================
td — if you wish to read and believe revisionist history then go for it!! It’s a free country dude!
Just, in all fairness so that you won’t look like a blooming idiot, keep everything that you’ve read/believe to yourself.
It’s just better that way.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 18th, 2013
5:34 pm
…why do you want to bash the site and not talk about the author.
Dittoheads say, “What?”
TGT
February 18th, 2013
5:35 pm
Proclamation 97 – Appointing a Day of National Humiliation, Fasting, and Prayer
March 30, 1863 (emphases mine):
Whereas the Senate of the United States, devoutly recognizing the supreme authority and just government of Almighty God in all the affairs of men and of nations, has by a resolution requested the President to designate and set apart a day for national prayer and humiliation; and
Whereas it is the duty of nations as well as of men to own their dependence upon the overruling power of God, to confess their sins and transgressions in humble sorrow, yet with assured hope that genuine repentance will lead to mercy and pardon, and to recognize the sublime truth, announced in the Holy Scriptures and proven by all history, that those nations only are blessed whose God is the Lord;
And, insomuch as we know that by His divine law nations, like individuals, are subjected to punishments and chastisements in this world, may we not justly fear that the awful calamity of civil war which now desolates the land may be but a punishment inflicted upon us for our presumptuous sins, to the needful end of our national reformation as a whole people? We have been the recipients of the choicest bounties of Heaven; we have been preserved these many years in peace and prosperity; we have grown in numbers, wealth, and power as no other nation has ever grown. But we have forgotten God. We have forgotten the gracious hand which preserved us in peace and multiplied and enriched and strengthened us, and we have vainly imagined, in the deceitfulness of our hearts, that all these blessings were produced by some superior wisdom and virtue of our own. Intoxicated with unbroken success, we have become too self-sufficient to feel the necessity of redeeming and preserving grace, too proud to pray to the God that made us.
It behooves us, then, to humble ourselves before the offended Power, to confess our national sins, and to pray for clemency and forgiveness.
Now, therefore, in compliance with the request, and fully concurring in the views of the Senate, I do by this my proclamation designate and set apart Thursday, the 30th day of April, 1863, as a day of national humiliation, fasting, and prayer. And I do hereby request all the people to abstain on that day from their ordinary secular pursuits, and to unite at their several places of public worship and their respective homes in keeping the day holy to the Lord and devoted to the humble discharge of the religious duties proper to that solemn occasion.
All this being done in sincerity and truth, let us then rest humbly in the hope authorized by the divine teachings that the united cry of the nation will be heard on high and answered with blessings no less than the pardon of our national sins and the restoration of our now divided and suffering country to its former happy condition of unity and peace. In witness whereof I have hereunto set my hand and caused the seal of the United States to be affixed.
Done at the city of Washington, this 30th day of March, A. D. 1863, and of the Independence of the United States the eighty-seventh.
ABRAHAM LINCOLN.
If only the ACLU were around! Right libs?
TBS
February 18th, 2013
5:36 pm
td
There is truth to what you say, no doubt.
End of the day, the majority of the “leaders” in the south or elsewhere wanted nothing more than status quo..
“Free at last………”
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 18th, 2013
5:38 pm
It took three generations for any of it, to return to any recognizable beauty
Apparently that gas stop on I16 (Dublin) has not caught up.
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
February 18th, 2013
5:39 pm
Its anger is still seething just below the surface to this day. There is no great love in the White Southern Man’s heart for good ole Abe.
Three words – GET OVER IT!!
It’s been 200+ years! DANG! Abe begat violence WITH violence — not everyone is going to turn the other cheek.
Abe wasn’t perfect and war is hell — what else is new?
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
5:41 pm
http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo12.html
Nod did I write that he did.
But he did allow the link to it.
The entire premise that Lincoln was some demonic dictator and that the poor misunderstood, albeit murderous, slave-holders and traitors in the south were his victims and the good guys is nuttier than a romanticized fruitcake.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Kansas_Civil_War_units
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 18th, 2013
5:42 pm
DDR, well if Lincoln had just used drones instead of fire…
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
February 18th, 2013
5:44 pm
DDR, well if Lincoln had just used drones instead of fire…
Heh heh heh…..
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
February 18th, 2013
5:45 pm
Well folks I’m outta here for the evening.
Take care all!
josef
February 18th, 2013
5:47 pm
K’CHAK
“Lew Rockwell
There’s your sign.”
That was my own first thought, too…the contentions of the second part of the citation, however, are born out fully in the historical record…
kayaker 71
February 18th, 2013
5:47 pm
We might remind all of you liberals that Lincoln was the father of the Republican party. It was through the efforts of the first Republican president that, with the help of a few hundred thousand Union troops, that slavery was abolished and emancipation was started. How soon we forget.
комиссар (Occupation)
February 18th, 2013
5:53 pm
Bernie: “It took three generations for any of it, to return to any recognizable beauty. Its anger is still seething just below the surface to this day. There is no great love in the White Southern Man’s heart for good ole Abe.”
Tough for Southerners to face the fact that they were in opposition to arguably the only truly great American who’s ever lived. I get that.
td
February 18th, 2013
5:54 pm
DebbieDoRight – A Do Right Woman
February 18th, 2013
5:34 pm
Do a little research and you will see that everything in the article was factual. Now Lincoln supporters will say he was “saving the union” and he did but at what cost?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 18th, 2013
5:55 pm
k71, have you talked to td about that Lincoln thing?
josef
February 18th, 2013
5:58 pm
History is written by the winners. Always has been, always will be.
td
February 18th, 2013
5:58 pm
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
5:41 pm
“The entire premise that Lincoln was some demonic dictator and that the poor misunderstood, albeit murderous, slave-holders and traitors in the south were his victims and the good guys”
Never said that. Lincoln threw out the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and was basically a dictator. If you feel the outcome was justification for what happened then that is fine but those are the facts.
F. Sinkwich
February 18th, 2013
5:59 pm
“I don’t believe in a law to prevent a man from getting rich; it would do more harm than good.”
Anybody forward this quote to O’bozo?
Oh, that’s right, he never listens to Republicans — he knows best.
Matti
February 18th, 2013
5:59 pm
I’ve read that those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it. (Santayana?) In the modern age of search engines and information overload, however, I don’t think that’s the case anymore. It seems like people just pick what they want from history to justify whatever they want to do or believe now. Our access to historical data has never been greater, but in the end, I don’t think it will save us from anything, least of all ourselves. That’s how it looks from where I’m sitting, anyway.
TBS
February 18th, 2013
5:59 pm
td and kayaker
To minds that I would love to just sit back and listen….
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 18th, 2013
6:00 pm
History is written by the winners. Always has been, always will be.
4 out of 5 MAJOR historians agree.
Mama Says
February 18th, 2013
6:02 pm
Kam,
What is your real purpose ?
You will not have a debate in anything, its just BS out of you. U refuse to answer any questions and spurt crap just so you can read what u write.
You and I both know that democrats controlled the house and the senate in the first two years Obama was president yet you decide to parse my words and question my use of the word chambers.
Really, what’s your point. I may well be a loud mouth but I have indicated that as a con I would support the environmental efforts libs make along with supporting gay adoption, medical exception for abortions and a reduction in military spending. You cannot allow yourself to have any kind of discussion.
It’s nit Pickens hyperbole that you spout and you are example of exactly why we can’t get a functioning government.
TBS
February 18th, 2013
6:02 pm
Two not to, but I just wanted to read these heavyweights thoughts..
They always astound and perplex
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
6:03 pm
Lincoln is beloved because he was an early liberal/progressive. And because he was on the morally sound side of the issue.
He chose the path of abolitionists and other liberals like Sojourner Truth, Frederick Douglass. Elizabeth Cady Stanton, William Lloyd Garrison, Harriet Beecher Stowe, Angelina Grimké and John Brown.
Men and women of inestimable courage and vision.
That he and the only other modern liberal Republican, Theodore Roosevelt, are both on Mount Rushmore is tribute to the liberal philosophies which they championed.
Philosophies which the current Republican Party have long forgotten and have tossed away.
And why they have a barely believable (in this day and age) 2% black membership.
The right wing’s longstanding “Negro problem” (along with their “woman problem”) will likely be their ultimate undoing…
josef
February 18th, 2013
6:03 pm
Matti
@ 5:59
Yep.
K’CHAK
Matti
February 18th, 2013
6:04 pm
“He who controls the past controls the future. He who controls the present controls the past.” — George Orwell, re-purposed by Rage Against the Machine
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 18th, 2013
6:05 pm
You and I both know that democrats controlled the house and the senate in the first two years Obama was president yet you decide to parse my words and question my use of the word chambers.
Take a civics class, please.
josef
February 18th, 2013
6:05 pm
“I don’t go so far as to think that the only good Indians are dead Indians, but I believe nine out of ten are, and I shouldn’t like to inquire too closely into the case of the tenth”.
–Theodore Roosevelt, Champion of Liberal Philosophy
комиссар (Occupation)
February 18th, 2013
6:06 pm
td: “Now Lincoln supporters will say he was “saving the union” and he did but at what cost?”
At what cost? At a cost made unavoidable by the imperative that the North American slave society be destroyed at the end of a bayonet. Which was done.
mbtc
February 18th, 2013
6:08 pm
Stevie R.:”I think ranking presidents is useless. Some of course are clearly not worthy. Seems to me how the issues of that time handled and how the country was left to the next occupant is most important…”
Which is why GWB is far and above the worst. And Clinton could be said to be one of the best.
Brosephus™
February 18th, 2013
6:09 pm
We might remind all of you liberals that Lincoln was the father of the Republican party. It was through the efforts of the first Republican president that, with the help of a few hundred thousand Union troops, that slavery was abolished and emancipation was started. How soon we forget.
And now for the rest of the story…
LILY-WHITE MOVEMENT. The “lily-white” movement began within the Republican party after the Civil War. From the first days of Reconstruction, a fight developed not only in Texas but across the South between white and black factions for control of the newly formed party. As white GOP leaders sought “respectability” among Southern voters and a conviction grew that continued “black and tan” involvement thwarted expansion of the party, the lily-white Republicans began an organized effort to drive blacks from positions of party leadership. Though Texas blacks appealed to Northern party managers to halt the movement, lily-whiteism flourished because Republican presidents after 1865 wanted approval from the Southern white masses. The term lily-white apparently originated at the 1888 Republican state convention in Fort Worth, when a group of whites attempted to expel a number of black and tan delegates. Norris Wright Cuney, the black Texas leader who controlled the state party from 1883 until his death in 1896, promptly labeled the insurgents “lily-whites,” and the term was soon applied to similar groups throughout the South.
—————
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lily-White_Movement
From the beginning of Reconstruction conservative Southern white factions fought against factions of blacks and liberal white factions for control of the party. White Republican leaders became increasingly concerned about the exodus of white voters in the South and other parts of the country, some out of concerns for the strength of the party and some for purely racist reasons.
Following the death of Texas Republican leader Edmund J. Davis in 1883, black civil rights leader Norris Wright Cuney rose to the Republican chairmanship in Texas becoming the national committeeman in 1889.[8] This development, among others, led to the Lily-White Movement’s becoming a more organized, nationwide effort.
Ergo, Conservative Whites ran the Blacks out of the Republican Party and started doing so before Lincoln’s body was cold to the touch. The “Party of Lincoln” isn’t something that White’s should espouse, when they don’t know the entire history of their party. The all out race to go “conservative” doesn’t help either given the history of Republican Conservatives and conservatives in general.
Brosephus™
February 18th, 2013
6:11 pm
History is written by the winners. Always has been, always will be.
4 out of 5 MAJOR historians agree.
The 5th one called out sick the day the poll was taken. That’s why it’s only 4 out of 5.
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
6:12 pm
The records of the most beloved American presidents and other historical figures are viewed by the intellectually honest both in terms of the totality of their records and the times in which they occurred.
If Lincoln and Washington and TR and FDR and LBJ and GWB are all murderous demons, so are we all.
At least to the extent that we did not do as much as Sojourner Truth, Frederick Douglass and John Brown to stop any of them.
td
February 18th, 2013
6:13 pm
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 18th, 2013
6:05 pm
Since you seem to always be supporting the group, this is for you:
Lincoln disregarded the Constitution by “discovering” presidential powers in the Constitution that no previous president had ever found before. He claimed that being President and Commander-in-Chief allowed him carte blanche in the name of “war powers.” Lincoln, among other usurpations and Constitutional violations:
Unilaterally suspended habeas corpus in the North
Usurping the power of Congress, and acting against the ruling of U.S. Supreme Court Justice Roger B. Taney, Lincoln suspended habeas corpus and used the military to arrest and imprison without proper legal procedures any who voiced disagreement with his war and domestic policies. Suspension of habeas corpus remained in effect during his entire administration and thousands were held indefinitely without trial. Historians estimate that more than 13,000 political prisoners were held in the military prisons-many of whom were not secessionists. Lincoln also ordered the arrest of Chief Justice Taney for daring to challenge his usurpation.
Declared martial law in the North
With civil liberties nullified by suspension of habeas corpus, citizens were subject to arbitrary arrest by the military for the duration of Lincoln’s administration. Vague accusations and rumors such as participating in “disloyal practices” were rampant and the military was given the power to decide what was “disloyal.” No dissent was tolerated.
Censored the press and imprisoned publishers in the North
Any newspapers that criticized Lincoln were shut down in various ways. Publishers and editors were imprisoned without due process or a trial. Printing presses were destroyed and dozens of prominent newspapers all over the North were shuttered.
Censored all telegraph communications in the North
Beginning February 2, 1862, the Federal government began censoring all telegraphs communications.
Ordered Federal troops to prevent opposition voting in the North
In Maryland election judges were instructed to throw out any votes for candidates who opposed Lincoln’s war. Posters were placed at voting booths instructing everyone to expose anyone voting who opposed Lincoln. Soldiers were present to arrest anyone suspected of southern sympathies.
Deported U.S. Representative Clement Vallandigham of Ohio
Congressman Vallandigham was arrested without a warrant and thrown into military prison for making a speech criticizing Lincoln’s unconstitutional usurpation of power. He was then deported to the South.
Illegally established West Virginia as a state
Lincoln unconstitutionally orchestrated the creation of the new state of West Virginia and set up a puppet government that would be pro-union.
http://confederatemuseumandlibrary.org/camp36/abedord.html
Boris Badnoff
February 18th, 2013
6:14 pm
The most amazing accomplishment of Abe is he gave all those speeches without a teleprompter. That and he closed down newspapers that disagreed with him. And threw the editors in jail. Yep, Spilberg’s latest propaganda movie shows congressmen from Connecticut voting against the Emancipation Proclamation. Actually it was congressmen from Illinois. And a few other states. But I thank Abe for giving the Post Office the day off so I won’t have to throw another letter from GEICO away until tomorrow.
комиссар (Occupation)
February 18th, 2013
6:15 pm
kayaker 71: “We might remind all of you liberals that Lincoln was the father of the Republican party”
No need to remind US. It’s you people, the ones who pretend to march under the same principles represented by Lincoln today, defiling the name of his party in the process, who need to be reminded.
Vet
February 18th, 2013
6:17 pm
“But what shall we do with the negroes after they are free?” Lincon said. ” I can hardly believe that the South and North can live in peace unless we get rid of the negroes…I believe that it would be better to export them all to some fertile country with a good climate, which they could have to themselves.” Abraham Lincoln ……. The man not the saint some would have you believe him to be!
mbtc
February 18th, 2013
6:18 pm
комиссар (Occupation)
February 18th, 2013
6:15 pm
BOOM!
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 18th, 2013
6:18 pm
…gave all those speeches without a teleprompter.
Mitt Romney says, “What?”
josef
February 18th, 2013
6:19 pm
BROSEPHUS
Unmentionable says, thass awright, come on over and go for a ride in Geronimo’s Cadillac and y’all can discuss the progressive policies of TDR
josef
February 18th, 2013
6:21 pm
Right…and Hitler gave us Volkswagen and the autobahn. What’s a little genocide in the great order of things, eh?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 18th, 2013
6:23 pm
Lincoln unconstitutionally orchestrated the creation of the new state of West Virginia and set up a puppet government that would be pro-union.
Well that is one viewpoint. Others felt differently. Hey where in the Constitution does is say that the US can buy the Louisiana Purchase or Alaska? And secession?
Sure do make them executive order poutrages seem silly now don’t it?
josef
February 18th, 2013
6:23 pm
Let’s not forget what the transcontinental railroad and the homestead act, two great “accomplishments” of the era under discussion meant to the pesky savages who got in the way of, uh, “progress.”
Mama Says
February 18th, 2013
6:24 pm
You win Kam,
In a blog full of liberal right doing hypocrites you have managed to avoid any question which is posed to you. None of your liberal friends will correct your behavior or bias based political garbage which u spout.
Rather than worrying about my use of he word chamber, to describe the house and senate or your thoughts that I need a civics class you should worry about answering questions with straight forward truth. You are the very definition of a hypocrite and like our government this blog would be better served without your participation. U neither move the conversation forward nor solve any issues. You would rather protect your space in wonderland than have an actual discussion.
Bless you because I am sure your lack of communication skills and ethics hamper your interaction with more people than those who participate in this blog.
To answer my own question, which u refuse to say, Yes- the democrats had all bodies of government in the first two years of his administration. Bodies would include the terms chambers, floors, committees, offices and or any other adjective which describes two of the three branches of government which participate in the construction, implementation and review of law in the federal level of governance in this country.
The same bodies that passed the healthcare bill.
Get it now ? Oh yeah you knew the answer before all your BS.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 18th, 2013
6:25 pm
While we are at it, td, you can explain how we negated all them treaties with the firsties?
josef
February 18th, 2013
6:25 pm
GOOD FIGHT
Well, as far as the Louisiana Purchase is concerned, let’s at least give TJ his credit in questioning his own constitutional right to pull it off.
Moderate Line
February 18th, 2013
6:26 pm
Of the more than 40 presidents to occupy the White House, Abraham Lincoln was the only one whose presence was essential to the nation’s future.
++++
I agree with the statement 100%. Lincoln made one major mistake as president. He let Andrew Johnson run as vice-president. Debatably the worse president ever. He should be at least in everyone’s type 5.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 18th, 2013
6:26 pm
oh no…. I am channeling my inner josef. I really need a drink now.
josef
February 18th, 2013
6:27 pm
GOOD FIGHT
Just playing EOI here, but the Confederate States of America stands alone of the American nations to have never broken a treaty with an Indigenous nation…
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 18th, 2013
6:27 pm
Yes- the democrats had all bodies of government in the first two years of his administration.
“[A]ll bodies of government?
Democrats controlled the SCOTUS?
Again, please take a civics class.
Thomas
February 18th, 2013
6:27 pm
The South, as well all know, had the superior intellect. We simply did not have the weapons as the North had. The South would have one the Civil War if it had drone technology.
West Virginia is an illegal state and should be (voluntarily) deported back to Mexico.
Lincoln, contrary to popular belief, did not use a teleprompter.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 18th, 2013
6:29 pm
josef, they just needed more time.
Paul
February 18th, 2013
6:29 pm
“The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate to the stormy present. The occasion is piled high with difficulty, and we must rise — with the occasion. As our case is new, so we must think anew, and act anew. We must disenthrall ourselves, and then we shall save our country.” (Applies to both parties, but more particularly those who cannot bring themselves to say “compromise”).
“The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves — in their separate, and individual capacities.” (Sounds like somebody believed we need to help each other out)
“There is no grievance that is a fit object of redress by mob law.” (So much for the “I’ve got my gun so I can kill federal workers and Congressmen and Senators if I think they’ve become tyrannical’ crowd – )
“I believe it is an established maxim in morals that he who makes an assertion without knowing whether it is true or false, is guilty of falsehood; and the accidental truth of the assertion, does not justify or excuse him.” (Fox with Benghazi, my sorry excuse for a senator, Ted Cruz, the list is so long….)
“I don’t believe in a law to prevent a man from getting rich; it would do more harm than good. So while we do not propose any war upon capital, we do wish to allow the humblest man an equal chance to get rich with everybody else” (as has been noted here, one has a greater likelihood of moving from the lower to the middle class or the lower or middle to the upper class in Europe than in America. So much for socialism -)
Brosephus™
February 18th, 2013
6:30 pm
josef
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
6:31 pm
Vet, perhaps you can point me to the claims about Lincoln being a saint?
He was brutal. He had to be. He had millions of traitors trying to kill Americans on American soil.
What the hell would you have done?
Negotiated with the terrorists?
LOL!
Mama Says
February 18th, 2013
6:31 pm
Forget it TD, you are trying to talk to a person with no answers, only insults.
Kam, has no way of defending the truths that you spoke so be asure in the fact he will insult you.
By he way Lincoln’s actions beg the question. Is liberty preserved by employing tyranny.
In other words Lincoln’s actions were the beginning of the end of he American form of government.
Be it Lincoln, Busch, or Obama the executive order is not democracy at work
Brosephus™
February 18th, 2013
6:31 pm
Keep @ 6:29
You beat me to it!!
Brosephus™
February 18th, 2013
6:35 pm
Be it Lincoln, Busch, or Obama the executive order is not democracy at work
George Washington says Huh?!?!?!
http://www.historyofthings.com/history-of-presidential-executive-orders
An Executive Order is a powerful regulation first used by President George Washington on June 8, 1789. It carries the full force of the law when based on the president’s constitutional power, and Congress passed said order into law. Executive orders direct federal agencies and officials in their implementation of Congressional laws and policies. This regulation that the acting president issues legally binds agencies and officials. The president delivers Executive Orders to Federal Administrative Agencies.
In essence, a EO is a directive to agencies under the President within his 1/3 of Government instructing them how to do their job. As long as it’s constitutional, there is nothing undemocratic about EOs at all.
Get Real
February 18th, 2013
6:36 pm
Mama Says …..why are wasting your time trying to have a quasi intelligent discussion with Kammie Poo?
It lives in its own world of reality…
josef
February 18th, 2013
6:37 pm
GOOD FIGHT
Not really. Ya gotta remember the CSA was negotiating with the “civilized” nations…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPFP_XazE5U
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
6:37 pm
In other words Lincoln’s actions were the beginning of the end of he American form of government.
Where do you come up with this stuff???
Is this the handiwork of Glenn Beck, or something?
LOL!
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 18th, 2013
6:38 pm
Now stop that Bro….. The founding fathers would have been outraged by the EO. Washington the general would have slapped Washington the president silly!
Mama Says
February 18th, 2013
6:39 pm
Ok Bro,
I believe u said it, as long as its constitutional.
Lincoln decided he could throw out the basic tenets of the constitution. As far as I can tell jailing people for voicing opposition and arresting the editors of newspapers is an abuse of the very power we speak of
Mama Says
February 18th, 2013
6:40 pm
He can’t even argue right
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 18th, 2013
6:42 pm
Obsession unhinged.
Doomy on the drive by
February 18th, 2013
6:42 pm
TBS,
Reagan? You mean the guy that deregulated everything and brought us unprecedented prosperity including 7% economic growth in some quarters, 1 million new jobs in one month alone, 21 million new jobs from the bottom of the recession and 16.1 million net new jobs overall. I hate it that it bothers you so much but those are after all the F A C T S. Just the facts sir. Just the facts please. Doomy out.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 18th, 2013
6:43 pm
josef, I thought you were going with this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsj4s9z-EAE
Mama Says
February 18th, 2013
6:43 pm
Jam,
Since you will explain your sides position. Can you please tell me how you argue against basic thoughts.
Who ever thought the president could legally use the EO to arrest members of the public for voicing opposition ? Who ever envisioned newspaper editors being arrested for writing articles disagreeing with the president ?
I mean seriously, think this was an exercise in constitutional law ?
Brosephus™
February 18th, 2013
6:44 pm
Lincoln decided he could throw out the basic tenets of the constitution.
And, at the time of Lincoln’s administration, things were not peachy keen, hunky dory either. That’s where I personally think people fail at trying to judge presidential actions. It’s easy to quarterback decisions 150 years later. At the time, Lincoln didn’t have such hindsight to fall back on.
Either way I see it, he’s damned in the eyes of the country. People hate him for what he did. Had the US collapsed, they would have hated him for that.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 18th, 2013
6:48 pm
People hate him for what he did. Had the US collapsed, they would have hated him for that.
Yep.
And that was the dilemma he had to wrestle with.
josef
February 18th, 2013
6:49 pm
GOOD FIGHT
Love that scene!
Mama Says
February 18th, 2013
6:51 pm
Well that’s where we disagree Bro.
There is no circumstance when the president himself can decide times are so difficult he will do what he wishes.
He had a constitution to go by then and it’s the same one we have now.
If indeed Busch is wrong with detainees of foreign origins, I promise you Lincoln had no legal right to imprison American citizens without trail.
I don’t even speak of confederate citizens, I can see denying them rights since they renounced citizenship. But you think he had the right to deny due process to northern newspaper editors ?
I would put forward this thought. Lincoln got away with because the other party vacated their responsibilities. By leaving the union there was no opposition political power to stop Lincoln from doing what he wanted. Much like republicans of today, none of them sought to oppose the leader of their own party during a ti e of conflict.
This doesn’t mean that the constitution want usurped
josef
February 18th, 2013
6:52 pm
Aw, had Lincoln survived to complete his second term, he would have been hamstrung by the Radical Republicans for his policy of malice toward none and charity to all. His Reconstruction policy wasn’t real popular and he didn’t go into office the second go round with a landslide of the popular vote.
Mama Says
February 18th, 2013
6:54 pm
By the way I don’t know of a clause that says the constitution can be ignored because the president faces a difficult situation. I believe it’s there to guide a president during the difficulties
Doggone/GA
February 18th, 2013
6:56 pm
“By the way I don’t know of a clause that says the constitution can be ignored because the president faces a difficult situation.”
Guess what? It was over 150 years ago and there’s NOTHING WE CAN DO ABOUT IT NOW.
Mama Says
February 18th, 2013
6:58 pm
A modern day analogy of Lincoln’s abuse can be seen in Wisconsin. Walker, a republican had no obligation to satisfy the democrats because they left the state.
What happened, he got every law he wanted passed with no liberal input on any of the bills that democrats hate now.
Does that make Walker right ?
Jay
February 18th, 2013
6:59 pm
“Aw, had Lincoln survived to complete his second term, he would have been hamstrung by the Radical Republicans for his policy of malice toward none and charity to all. His Reconstruction policy wasn’t real popular and he didn’t go into office the second go round with a landslide of the popular vote.
I see where you’re coming from, Josef, but I also think that as the victorious, celebrated president, Lincoln would have had a lot of political capital. We will never know of course.
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
7:00 pm
By leaving the union there was no opposition political power to stop Lincoln from doing what he wanted.
I don’t think that you are particularly well read on his matter.
Lincoln faced vehement opposition from the Democrats and others in Washington throughout the entire war. And even before it began – “Peace Democrats” proposed a peaceful resolution to the developing Civil War by offering a truce with the South, and forming a constitutional convention to amend the U.S. Constitution to protect States’ rights.
Thank all of the deities they failed and the abolitionists won.
Doggone/GA
February 18th, 2013
7:01 pm
“Does that make Walker right ?”
Only TOO “right”
Brosephus™
February 18th, 2013
7:01 pm
Mama Says
If you’re a government worker, you’ve taken the Oath of Office at least once, right? There’s that statement within that oath to “protect and defend the Constitution”, but there’s no instructions within the Constitution that dictates what the President can and cannot do to uphold that oath.
If we disagree anywhere, it’s because I believe that keeping that oath is completely necessary to ensure the Constitution functions as it is written. The President’s Oath is enshrined within the very document he swears to protect. Not doing anything and everything possible to protect said Constitution is a failure to uphold your oath of office in my book.
————–
josef
The Conservative Republicans from Texas would have made sure of that.
Mama Says
February 18th, 2013
7:02 pm
Thank you Dog,
Now you make the point cons try to argue.
You can’t do anything about it because its law now. The practice of presidential wars by EO is now set. Nobody opposes it and its just accepted. Today’s arguments bare that same logic. What is established today will have precedent 100 years from now. You can demand that the constitution be followed or accept that is intent is ruined 100 years from now.
Corey
February 18th, 2013
7:03 pm
@TaxPayer
February 18th, 2013
3:34 pm
Slaves were provided arms in South Carolina to help fight Indians and help settlers expand westward in the Piedmont region. My regret is they shot the wrong people.
Mama Says
February 18th, 2013
7:04 pm
Jam,
Nobody held him to the right to a fair trial did they ? Or freedom of the press
Doggone/GA
February 18th, 2013
7:05 pm
“You can’t do anything about it because its law now”
Except, that laws can be changed or repealed. So it’s not true that “you can’t do anything about it”
josef
February 18th, 2013
7:07 pm
JAY
“Lincoln would have had a lot of political capital. We will never know of course”
I would agree with that up to a point. But given the attitudes and actions of the Radical Republicans I’m not sure that political capital would have been enough. Had he not been assassinated, he would not have become a martyr with the accompanying hagiology. He’d've been a sitting duck for the macchinations of what was without a doubt one of the most, well, Byzantine cabals of court intrigue yet seen in our republic, But, as you say, we’ll never know.
barking frog
February 18th, 2013
7:07 pm
Lincoln proved might makes right, but to this day any
time the National Guard is activated by a former
Confederate State it is immediately Federalized.
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
7:10 pm
That Lincoln violated the US Constitution is not debatable.
That it was proper and necessary is.
That he also won the war and saved this greatest on nation on earth from traitors is not.
josef
February 18th, 2013
7:10 pm
BROSEPHUS
Not to mention the Northern Democrats who had some real axes to grind with the Lincoln administration. A lot had been put on the back burner for the duration of the hostilities.
Mama Says
February 18th, 2013
7:11 pm
Let me try to help you guys out some. The con logic states this.
The word precedent indicates the ability for the government to claim that what they do now is legal based on what was done prior.
This is very dangerous by the mere fact that essentially this means that the constitution can be refreshed so to speak, by legal definitions and current circumstance.
The constitution is amendable but not via precedent, but through ratification of the states.
As a con I know, and you guys do also I think, that either party will abuse precedent.
Bro, I did take an oath to defend the constitution and have about 8 times.
Not one of those oaths said anything about blind obedience to whatever the president wants. As did mine, his oath dictates that he will preserve the constitution as written, not to preserve his right to interrupt it.
josef
February 18th, 2013
7:12 pm
ZamVet
Of course it was traitors. After all, Sen. Wilson, we do know its “brains” was “from the race of traitors.”
Doggone/GA
February 18th, 2013
7:13 pm
“As did mine, his oath dictates that he will preserve the constitution as written, not to preserve his right to interrupt it.”
Well…let’s dig him up and try him then.
josef
February 18th, 2013
7:18 pm
DOGGONE
“Well…let’s dig him up and try him then.”
Dang! I thought that’s what we were doing!
Mama Says
February 18th, 2013
7:18 pm
Let me throw this out there.
Can any lib out there tell me where in the original documents you derive your belief that the government can take anything from anyone ?
This not only goes to taxes but eminent domain and any other practice that is considered constitutional now.
I will vehemently argue with anyone who try’s to tells me that the government, of which cons distrust, is not the entity who granted itself every Power that it has today.
Not one citizen voted on abortion, taxes or war since these issues became issues. The government decided how each would be interrupted and now the government calls their decisions precedence.
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
7:19 pm
jonix, you know me!
i don’t sugar coat words.
I do not refer to them as rebels or secessionists or insurrectionists. Or confederates (As Lincoln did so as not to provoke them further).
I call them what they were. Traitors.
And I also believe that the most virulent of the right wing southerners have never gotten over that loss.
It afflicts them to to this day.
And explains both their negrophobia and how the most fanatical of them still want to figure out a way to secede from the Union.
http://www.texassecede.com/faq.htm#civilwar
josef
February 18th, 2013
7:21 pm
ZamVet
And the Union policies of anti-Semitism…don’t sugar coat that while you’re at it…
Doggone/GA
February 18th, 2013
7:24 pm
“Dang! I thought that’s what we were doing”
Yeah, no kidding. Just think what the “conversation” would be like if we were discussion Bush motives for the Iraq invasion instead.
Mama Says
February 18th, 2013
7:25 pm
Ok Dog,
I tell u what you ignore the precedent he laid and dismiss the actions of our politicians if u like. You too make silly arguments. Yeah let’s dig him up and try him Dog. It would be much easier to simply enforce the constitution rather than the precedent he laid ground for.
We could
josef
February 18th, 2013
7:26 pm
DOGGONE
Funny, I was thinking much the same thing….
Doggone/GA
February 18th, 2013
7:26 pm
“Can any lib out there tell me where in the original documents you derive your belief that the government can take anything from anyone ?”
When you base your argument on a lie…you have no argument.
TBS
February 18th, 2013
7:27 pm
Josef
Good points. The south was all about the Jews right?
Not where it fit them politically but just becasue…. Right?
Doggone/GA
February 18th, 2013
7:31 pm
“It would be much easier to simply enforce the constitution rather than the precedent he laid ground for.”
And if he had stuck to the “letter” of the Constitutition – that no one can even agree on – and lost that war, would he have been guilty of failing to protect it?
There’s NOTHING in the Constitution to direct a President how to react in the face of an all out war of secession. It’s pointless to second guess his decisions because first of all, they worked…and secondly, we weren’t there to judge the conditions under which he was operating.
If there’s ever another all out war of secssion, we’ll get a chance to compare THAT President’s reactions to Lincoln’s.
josef
February 18th, 2013
7:32 pm
TBS
Say what? I was simply making the point to ZamVet, a fellow MOT, that Jews were singled out in the North for some particularly vicious attacks during the course of the Civil War. So were American Indians. So were Catholics. So were women. So were the ethnic French.
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
7:33 pm
jonix, a great article about how Grant rued his General Order No. 11 and how Lincoln rescinded it.
After his election as president in 1868, he bent over backwards to demonstrate that it was an aberrant and thoughtless act done, he claimed, “without any reflection and without thinking of the Jews as a sect or race.” He emphasized, “I have no prejudice against sect or race, but want each individual to be judged by his own merit.”
In fact, his presidency inaugurated what Sarna refers to as a golden age for Jews in the country. Grant appointed more Jews to public office than any previous president. No other president until well into the 20th century so firmly urged clarity in keeping church and state apart nor made such efforts to promote freedom of religious expression and the embrace of non-Protestants and non-natives as fully American.
So popular did Grant become among Jews that he was invited and became the first American president to attend Jewish worship services, at the dedication of a new Washington, D.C., synagogue. Sarna writes, ‘Now, the man who had once expelled ‘Jews as a class’ from his war zone personally came to honor Jews for upholding and renewing their faith.”
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/21/what-happened-when-general-grant-expelled-civil-war-jews.html
I’m fairly certain that the Negroes in the South would have fared much, much, much worse in a post-war Lee presidency…
Brosephus™
February 18th, 2013
7:33 pm
josef
There is that part too…
————–
Mama Says: Not one of those oaths said anything about blind obedience to whatever the president wants. As did mine, his oath dictates that he will preserve the constitution as written, not to preserve his right to interrupt it.
I don’t know what oath you took, but there is no stipulation to preserve it as written.
http://uspolitics.about.com/od/usgovernment/a/oaths_of_office.htm
Presidential Oath of Office (per the US Constitution): “I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”
The oaths for all others vary just a bit from that, but none have a stipulation that the Constitution has to be preserved as written. The oath is to protect and defend the Constitution. There are no limits to what constitutes protection and/or defense either. That was something I questioned back when the debate on the Patriot Act was taking place. I haven’t found anything yet to show where strict guidelines have been set on what defines protection and/or defense.
Soothsayer
February 18th, 2013
7:33 pm
I invite everyone to watch “Hubris” tonight on (gulp!) MSNBC @ 9:00 pm about the selling of the EYE-rack war to the American public.
If you watch, carefully note the order in which the lies are presented to the American public by the Neocons and compare them to the lies being promulgated by those same Neocons re: EYE-ran and Syria.
Doggone/GA
February 18th, 2013
7:34 pm
If “Nobody does what Papa John’s does” – does that mean Papa John’s doesn’t do it either?
LaKeisha Jackson
February 18th, 2013
7:34 pm
A few favorite Lincoln quotes:
“We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.”
“America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.”
“Let not him who is houseless pull down the house of another, but let him work diligently and build one for himself.”
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
7:39 pm
It strikes me that Grant’s epiphany vis a vis the Jews mirrors Lincolns with the issue of slavery.
These were men who learned from and corrected their mistakes.
A great lesson for us all…
USA Patriot
February 18th, 2013
7:39 pm
“I invite everyone to watch “Hubris” tonight on (gulp!) MSNBC …..”
And then I quit reading. That’s a solid, reliable, source for news. CHIN CHA?
josef
February 18th, 2013
7:42 pm
ZamVet
Read the new study by Joseph Sarna “When Grant Expelled the Jews.” I highly recommend it. It caused me to reassess the subject of Grant and his post war repentance, but not the action itself.
Recon 0311 2533
February 18th, 2013
7:43 pm
The civil war is over and has been over since desegregation. The far-left wants to perpetuate it for their selfish ideological motive aimed at keeping the black vote captive. Black Americans like Dr. Ben Carson and others will eventually break through this left wing captivity and set Black America free. The far-left is terrified of this eventuality. BTW…the Democrat left is even more terrified of losing the very tenuous hold it has on the Hispanic vote. Change will come as it always does in life and politics.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 18th, 2013
7:47 pm
First, we were terrified of Sarah Plain.
Then it was Gingrich, Perry, Cain, Bachmann, Ryan and then Romney.
I’m jaded by all this terror
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 18th, 2013
7:47 pm
I just got in and I am sure someone has already posted this one (that Jay left out) but just in case:
“Any people, anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable, a most sacred right, a right which we hope and believe is to liberate the world. Nor is this right confined to cases in which the whole people of an existing government may choose to exercise it. Any portion of such people, that can, may revolutionize, and make their own of so much of the territory as they inhabit. More than this, a majority of any portion of such people may revolutionize, putting down a minority, intermingled with, or near about them, who may oppose their movements.”
From a speech to the House of Representatives, Jan. 12, 1848.
barking frog
February 18th, 2013
7:48 pm
Recon
The civil war is over and has been over since desegregation.
…………………………………………………………………………………..
The War of the Rebellion ended when Lee surrendered.
josef
February 18th, 2013
7:54 pm
FROG
“The War of the Rebellion ended when Lee surrendered.”
That being the official name of the conflict at the time.
“The Southern War of Independence ended when Lee surrendered.”
The official name of the conflict at the time.
It was then that the Civil War began…
Lord Help Us
February 18th, 2013
7:54 pm
‘Black Americans like Dr. Ben Carson and others will eventually break through this left wing captivity and set Black America free. ‘
Some of you have no idea that you are untethered to reality…
td
February 18th, 2013
7:57 pm
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
7:19 pm
“call them what they were. Traitors.”
A traitor would be someone that tried to overthrow the government. The South did not try to overthrow the government, they attempted to follow the Declaration of Independence and leave the union.
Recon 0311 2533
February 18th, 2013
7:58 pm
barking frog,
But the civil war in actuality ended with desegregation, that would not have occurred without White America’s buy in. Blacks who’ve chosen to prosper have prospered and they’re becoming the leadership who are now in the early stages of taking control from the Jessie Jackson’s and Sharptons of this country along with Black congressional leaders who’ve enriched themselves at the expense of Black Americans everywhere in our country.
Jay
February 18th, 2013
7:59 pm
“The civil war is over and has been over since desegregation. The far-left wants to perpetuate it for their selfish ideological motive aimed at keeping the black vote captive.”
Right, Recon. It’s the left that talks of secession, nullification, etc. It’s the left that makes a fetish of Confederate memorials and the Confederate flag. It’s the left whispering “fergit, hell.”
And with all due respect for Dr. Carson, the sudden affection for him on the right is almost touching. “A smart black guy who agrees with us!?! Let’s make him president!”
Does the term “overcompensation” ring a bell?
barking frog
February 18th, 2013
8:01 pm
josef
The struggle for civil rights for blacks was not ‘Civil War’
and there was nothing civil about it, at least for blacks.
The Reconstruction was not a war but it was a struggle
and indeterminate as to a ‘winner’.
Lord Help Us
February 18th, 2013
8:02 pm
‘Does the term “overcompensation” ring a bell?’
I wonder if he has those lifts in his shoes that make him look an inch or two taller…
josef
February 18th, 2013
8:02 pm
TD
Of course they were traitors. They lost. So were the Poles of the 1830s, the Irish of the 1910s, the Czechs of 1968, the Kurds of the 1980s (and in some places still), so were the Indians of Ghandi, the South Africans of Mandela, the Bahrani Shia today…
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 18th, 2013
8:03 pm
barking frog:
There are still Southern States required to do certain things under the Voting Rights Act as a result of that conflict. Until those provisions are withdrawn ………… the strife continues.
By the way, there are still as far as I know two “Civil War” dependents (probably in their 90’s) who are receiving benefits checks as a result of their father having been a Civil War veteran.
The last Civil War widow who was receiving said benefits died just a few years ago.
When I was a kid my great grandmother told of seeing Yankee Calvary ride by.
It ain’t really over …………….
)
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 18th, 2013
8:05 pm
josef:
1) And had we lost the Revolution, Washington, et al would have been hung as traitors and we as good British citizens of the Commonwealth might not even have been taught their names.
2) I still say it was the war between the “United (oxymoron) States of American and the Confederate States of America”.
josef
February 18th, 2013
8:06 pm
FROG
You missed my point, I think. All of what you mention were aspects of the Civil War between the two regions of the republic once the rebellion was quashed and the war of independence was lost.
IMAM
The fish ain’t bitin’ for that worm either!
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
8:06 pm
It caused me to reassess the subject of Grant and his post war repentance, but not the action itself.
Right on.
…aimed at keeping the black vote captive. …break through this left wing captivity and set Black America free.
Wow. Is it mind control? Some drug given to black babies? Or are they just willing slaves too slow to fight against their own captivity?
Talk about insulting to black Americans.
No wonder you guys still have a “Negro problem”!
Brosephus™
February 18th, 2013
8:06 pm
Black Americans like Dr. Ben Carson and others will eventually break through this left wing captivity and set Black America free. The far-left is terrified of this eventuality.
Whether one is held captive by the left or right, they’re still captive. Tell Dr. Ben Carson to contact me when he’s truly set himself free of both parties. Until he does that, he’s still captive.
As to desegregation in the US. We supposedly did away with segregation based on color, and we merely shifted to segregation based on class/finances.
—————
The South did not try to overthrow the government, they attempted to follow the Declaration of Independence and leave the union.
Unfortunately for them, they failed to realize that the Constitution is the supreme law of the land and not the Declaration of Independence.
Recon 0311 2533
February 18th, 2013
8:06 pm
Jay, you’re politically on the losing end of what’s really happening in this nation. I know you vehemently disagree but our economic condition will bring that about within your lifetime and mine.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 18th, 2013
8:07 pm
Jay:
How about that Uncle Abe quote at 7:47 ?
He was a politician just like all of them. If he had been a Southerner he would have continued to wax eloquent as to why they were right.
td
February 18th, 2013
8:09 pm
Jay
February 18th, 2013
7:59 pm
“Right, Recon. It’s the left that talks of secession, nullification, etc.”
Following the original intent of the Constitution (10th Amendment) is only re-fighting the civil war in the eyes of the progressive left.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 18th, 2013
8:09 pm
Jay, you’re politically on the losing end of what’s really happening in this nation
Mitt Romney says “what”?
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 18th, 2013
8:10 pm
Question:
Why were Davis, Lee, et al not indicted and tried for treason ?
josef
February 18th, 2013
8:11 pm
BROSEPHUS
“As to desegregation in the US. We supposedly did away with segregation based on color, and we merely shifted to segregation based on class/finances.”
Yep.
“Unfortunately for them, they failed to realize that the Constitution is the supreme law of the land and not the Declaration of Independence.”
Not to mention failing to recognize they were out manned and out gunned.
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
8:11 pm
td, you may have a point there.
But this point, “.. and leave the union…”, still stinks to high heaven when you consider the reason – slavery.
Say it again, this time out loud, just so it sinks in for you confederate apologists – SLAVERY.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 18th, 2013
8:11 pm
Tenthers.
barking frog
February 18th, 2013
8:12 pm
0311
My Great Grandfather fought the entire civil war in
The Lookout Dragoons from Dade County Georgia.
When Lee surrendered he was in North Carolina
with a wounded leg and left there walking but caught
a ride on a wagon. He accepted defeat, returned home
and swore his loyalty to the USA. My Great Grandmother
got a civil war widow’s pension after he died and was
the last civil war widow in Dade County. He never
owned a slave or a foot of land.
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
8:12 pm
Why were Davis, Lee, et al not indicted and tried for treason ?
You don’t know???
Thomas Heyward Jr
February 18th, 2013
8:13 pm
Lincoln was a scraggly SOB crooked lawyer bankster puppet from Illinois.
sound familiar?
He caused the unnecessary violent deaths of over half a million americans…..for politics, control, and greed.
.
In short…………a typical progressive.
And the people that revere this monster are………………sick.
And the State will NEVER have the power to ever make decent people think different.
Only the dumb ones.
.
That’s all I got to say.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 18th, 2013
8:13 pm
Brosephus:
“As to desegregation in the US. We supposedly did away with segregation based on color, and we merely shifted to segregation based on class/finances.”
Very astute observation. Well said.
“Unfortunately for them, they failed to realize that the Constitution is the supreme law of the land and not the Declaration of Independence.”
But if it’s violated all bets are off. That’s why the courts have recognized that a citizen has the right to resist an unconstitutional arrest by police.
josef
February 18th, 2013
8:14 pm
SCOUT
Why? Because Judah P got out and went to London!
USA Patriot
February 18th, 2013
8:14 pm
“And with all due respect for BARACK OBAMA, the sudden affection for him on the LEFT is almost touching. “A smart black guy who agrees with us!?! Let’s make him president!”
Does the term “overcompensation” ring a bell?
Fixed it for ya JB!
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 18th, 2013
8:16 pm
barking frog:
I hear you.
My great, great grandfather died (somewhere near Wytheville, Va.) after he was paroled as a Confederate prisoner. He spent two years at Camp Chase, Ohio which had a higher “percentage” (not volume) of prisoner deaths than Andersonville.
Brosephus™
February 18th, 2013
8:17 pm
But if it’s violated all bets are off. That’s why the courts have recognized that a citizen has the right to resist an unconstitutional arrest by police.
And the moment that Federal troops were fired upon by seccessionists, the Constitution was violated, and the President and military had to uphold their oaths and defend the Constitution. Regardless to how you try to paint it, there’s more than one way to look at that time period.
A citizen can resist an unconstitutional arrest by police, but they can not rise in insurrection against the government because of said arrest. There are proper channels to deal with such things. When you become an enemy of the Constitution, all bets are off IMHO.
Brosephus™
February 18th, 2013
8:18 pm
josef
The outmanned and outgunned thing didn’t matter much at first. Where it hurt them was when Lincoln guilted Europe from interceding on behalf of the CSA.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 18th, 2013
8:19 pm
josef:
You know the answer. Don’t be modest.
Inspite of the continued requests from Congress, the Attorney General and two special prosecutors refused to go forward with indictments.
They all felt that in a court of law in front of a jury they might lose and nothing would have been worse than to have won the war and then have a jury vote they had the right to seceed.
So ………… they just let Davis go and the rest is history.
Jack ®
February 18th, 2013
8:21 pm
Abe didn’t have the liberal mass media chronicling his every wart: Gave him time to think.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 18th, 2013
8:22 pm
Brosephus:
That’s why I took an oath to support the Constitution four times ………… not the Congress, not the president and not the Supreme Court ……… the Constitution !
And if any of those three entities absolutely violate that Constitution then any “uprising” is against “them” ………….. not the Constitution.
josef
February 18th, 2013
8:23 pm
Great Grandpappy (the abolitionist) held at Ft. Delaware after having been taken POW while Order # 11 was in force, ate rats to survive, refused to sign a loyalty oath, was dumped ashore in the Delaware side, walked all the way back to Tishomingo County, Mississippi and refused to take back his US citizenship. Died in ease and comfort, though, courtesy Great Granny the money laundress and the benevolence of his freedmen (yeah, he was an abolitionist, but owned two families…a story there to challenge a lot of misconceptions and historical ignorance). His grave is marked with the epitaph “a true Confederate soldier.”
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 18th, 2013
8:24 pm
“And the moment that Federal troops were fired upon by seccessionists, the Constitution was violated”
And at the moment that the federal government attempted to resupply Ft. Sumter with munitions (something Lincoln had agreed not to do while talks continued) it was an act of war.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
February 18th, 2013
8:25 pm
Unless Congress steps in, some $85 billion in massive spending reductions will hit the federal government, doling out furloughs to much of the nation’s 2.1 million federal workforce, experts say.
Well, make room, teachers. You’re about to get some company.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 18th, 2013
8:25 pm
josef:
Good for him ………… a man of principle.
josef
February 18th, 2013
8:26 pm
BROSEPHUS
“The outmanned and outgunned thing didn’t matter much at first. Where it hurt them was when Lincoln guilted Europe from interceding on behalf of the CSA.”
Ssshhhh…you’ll get fatwah’d if you ain’t careful! But, thass, right, you can say that. You’re Black.
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
8:30 pm
I guess I have never understood the pro-slavery gang and never will.
Especially those who in this day and age still defend them and their cause.
I believe it goes to the very dark heart of the American right wing and their hatred for our American government.
NEVER FORGET AMERICAN SLAVERY.
josef
February 18th, 2013
8:31 pm
SCOUT
While I am registered under all four great-grandfathers names, it is in his honor that I list him as primary in my SCV membership.
Yeah, Torquemada, a card carrying left wing radical one! I’ll have to take you to a meeting sometime! THAT’s fun! You think YOU have trouble getting some things through your pointy l’il haid!
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 18th, 2013
8:32 pm
Brosephus:
Lincoln put numerous Northern newspaper editors in jail for simply printing ediorials calling for the end of bloodshed and to just let the South go peacefully.
Was that a violation of the Constitution ?
josef
February 18th, 2013
8:32 pm
ZamVet
Well, I’ll give you your credit…you at least call it AMERICAN slavery…
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 18th, 2013
8:34 pm
josef:
Ooo Rah ! and ………………… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6jSqt39vFM
josef
February 18th, 2013
8:34 pm
BROSEPHUS
Then, of course, there’s the SCV Restitution Plan!
Charles Douglas Edwards
February 18th, 2013
8:35 pm
Abraham Lincoln and Frederick Douglass had an unusual friendship !!!
Their friendship was such that upon Lincoln death his wife Mary Todd Lincoln gave him President Lincoln favorite walking cane.
Words of wisdom from that time by Frederick Douglass:
” It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men ”
” If their is no struggle there is no progress ”
” Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you will have the exact measure of
the injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them.
” Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property is safe.
There is much to be gained from the wisdom of our ancestors.
Recon 0311 2533
February 18th, 2013
8:35 pm
I don’t foresee armed revolution in are future but I do see political revolution in our future based on the trajectory of our economy. It seems that there’s a prevailing mentality on the left that we can sustain Keynesian economics through a vast income tax revenue stream that’s available from the wealthy for many years to come. I don’t think that’s possible and my basis is the wealth that’s currently leaving this nation now and what’s likely to follow. We’re in dire economic straights and it won’t be much longer before the majority understands that we are and the Democrat scam will fold like a house of cards.
Alex
February 18th, 2013
8:36 pm
Jay, as to your point of memorials, have you ever been to the little roundtop in gettysburg—–nary a monument to the south, but hundreds of monuments to Union regiments, brigades, etc. All well earned with the blood and last breaths of young men crying out for their mother during their last living moments. The South happens to respect these tragedies as well and perhaps because these young men who were not paid to take the place of their wealthy compatriots as the northerners often did, should beheld in high regard, perhaps .
As for overcompensation, one should not disparage hope,that is what Obama taught all of us in 2008, remember your own history…
Soothsayer
February 18th, 2013
8:39 pm
Whatever we do we HAVE to avoid the $85,000,000,000.00 in spending cuts because that would represent over six (6) percent of our budget deficit.
Whatever will we do?
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 18th, 2013
8:39 pm
Recon:
Right now there are some very, very serious problems but basically our Constitution is still holding strong and working as planned by our forefathers.
I sure don’t see armed “revolution” (like the left tried to do during the Vietnam era) in our lifetimes but give it another 50 years and there’s no telling. That is what’s disturbing for those we leave behind.
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
8:40 pm
Yep, American slavery, jonix. And in the most accurate terms, systemic, entrenched and endless murder, brutality and torture.
And it seems that in the ongoing Lincoln hatefest that little point always gets lost.
Sometimes one has the sacred duty to kill evil men to save innocent men, women and children.
And so it was…
Alex
February 18th, 2013
8:41 pm
@ Josef, kurds as traitors might engender some opposition…..the Czechs of ‘68…?????,traitors to ?????
Soothsayer
February 18th, 2013
8:42 pm
Uh, Alex. Gettysburg is in Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania is in the north, i.e., the Union. WTF would they put a Confederate memorial there.
That would be like a Union monument at Antietam.
Doomy on the drive by
February 18th, 2013
8:44 pm
“A smart black guy who agrees with us!?! Let’s make him president!”
And a few others like Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams, Shelby Steele, etc.
Doggone/GA
February 18th, 2013
8:46 pm
“WTF would they put a Confederate memorial there”
Sooth, it’s really worth it check things before you go by your “gut” feeling: “The first Confederate monument on the Gettysburg battlefield was dedicated in 1884 to the 1st Maryland Battalion. It took years for the next to follow. ”
http://www.gettysburg.stonesentinels.com/Confederate.php
Recon 0311 2533
February 18th, 2013
8:47 pm
0311/8541,
My prophesy is about as good as anyone’s. Only the good Lord really knows our future but we’re on an unsustainable economic path and the Democrats ignore that fact. I think the majority in this nation won’t disregard our economic condition much longer and that will cause a huge shift in political ideology to the right. We shall see.
josef
February 18th, 2013
8:48 pm
SOOTH
Go to Vicksburg…monuments to the soldiers of every state whose sons fought and died there…
ALEX
Depends on whom you ask.
And as for the past…
I’m always bemused by the moralistic posturing. If you know who you ancestors were, it’s no great shakes to know what you yourself would have done in time and place.
barking frog
February 18th, 2013
8:53 pm
Soothsayer
Uh, Alex. Gettysburg is in Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania is in the north, i.e., the Union. WTF would they put a Confederate memorial there.
That would be like a Union monument at Antietam.
…………………………………………………………………………………………
There are many Union monuments at Chickamauga.
Recon 0311 2533
February 18th, 2013
8:55 pm
There are many Union monuments at Chickamauga
barking frog, the South is more tolerant.
Soothsayer
February 18th, 2013
8:55 pm
Yeah, yeah, yeah! Here’s my contribution to President’s Day.
barking frog
February 18th, 2013
8:57 pm
Recon
barking frog, the South is more tolerant.
…………………………………………………….
Nah, we just lost……
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 18th, 2013
8:57 pm
Recon:
I agree but just remember there is no way (no way) our grandfathers would have ever thought this country would have degenerated to some of the positions (economical, political, cultural and spiritual) that it has today.
Nothing would surprise me anymore.
Doggone/GA
February 18th, 2013
8:58 pm
“barking frog, the South is more tolerant.”
I suggest you check the link I posted
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 18th, 2013
9:00 pm
barking frog:
I went to Missionary Ridge Elementary School back in the late 50’s.
At recess and after school we would play on the Confederate canons among the Northern and Confederate monuments there on the ridge overlooking Chattanooga.
I was usually the “loader” and killed a lot of Yankees coming over that ridge ………… just not enough I guess ………….
)
Soothsayer
February 18th, 2013
9:01 pm
I once again invite all of you — right and left — to watch “Hubris” on MSNBC coming on right now.
josef
February 18th, 2013
9:02 pm
And here’s our home contribution to President’s Day
http://www.allposters.com/-sp/President-Harry-S-Truman-Signing-Bill-Providing-for-Establishment-of-Indian-Claims-Commission-Posters_i5301965_.htm
barking frog
February 18th, 2013
9:02 pm
0311
last I heard they were going to turn that school into condos…
Doggone/GA
February 18th, 2013
9:03 pm
“I once again invite all of you — right and left — to watch “Hubris” on MSNBC coming on right now”
Sorry, I’ll pass. Those of us who remember only too well that con job don’t need to. And those who refuse to see that they were conned won’t bother.
Thulsa Doom
February 18th, 2013
9:08 pm
“We’re in dire economic straights and it won’t be much longer before the majority understands that we are and the Democrat scam will fold like a house of cards.”
It will be awhile before the system collapses- more like 20 years or more in my view rather than the 5 or 10 years that the alarmists like to think. In the short term I don’t view the size of the debt itself as that big a deal which may be a shock to some of my fellow cons. Where the damage is in my opinion is not in any immediate collapse but in the continous drag that an ever burgeoning debt puts on the economy. The more debt we continue to accumulate the more difficult moderate to good economic growth becomes. That to me is the more short term danger than the actual size of the debt itself.
Got Hannity on in the background whining about Obama playing so much golf. What the hell is wrong with Hannity? The more golf Obama plays the less he can screw things up. Geez. I think the guy needs to spend the remainder of his presidency on the links. Too bad we didn’t run Elmer Fudd like I suggested.
kayaker 71
February 18th, 2013
9:14 pm
Over 625,000 Americans died in that war, more than any in our history. In two days, over 60,000 died at Antitum Bridge. It is estimated that approximately 599 died/day. We ostensibly fought that war to free the slaves and to establish a union that would last forever. If only it had turned out that way.
josef
February 18th, 2013
9:14 pm
Some more for my President’s Day
http://www.trumanlibrary.org/israel/59848a.jpg
http://thegrio.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/20120528-003600.jpg?w=559
Recon 0311 2533
February 18th, 2013
9:15 pm
The more debt we continue to accumulate the more difficult moderate to good economic growth becomes. That to me is the more short term danger than the actual size of the debt itself.
Well when do you think that will have a profound effect on the quality of daily life for Americans? Will it be another 20 years? I don’t believe so.
Thulsa Doom
February 18th, 2013
9:18 pm
“We ostensibly fought that war to free the slaves and to establish a union that would last forever.”
And Harry Belafonte and Louis Farrakhan thank the sacrifices of those white Union soldiers every day. I’m sure of it.
Recon 0311 2533
February 18th, 2013
9:18 pm
Nothing would surprise me anymore
0311/8541, prophesy set aside, I can’t disagree.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 18th, 2013
9:22 pm
Brosephus/Recon:
This is the kind of stuff that could one day take us “over the edge”.
1) Headline (Seattle Times): “Misstep in gun bill could defeat the effort”
“One of the major gun-control efforts in Olympia this session calls for the sheriff to inspect the homes of assault-weapon owners …………… ”
http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2020373291_westneat17xml.html
2) Headline: “Chicago Police Chief: Second Amendment Is A Danger To Public Safety”
“Chicago’s Chief of Police, who previously blamed ”government-sponsored racism” and Sarah Palin for Chicago’s gun violence, declared that the law-ful exercise of the Second Amendment was a threat to public safety.”
http://www.redstate.com/dloesch/2013/02/17/chicago-police-chief-second-amendment-is-a-danger-to-public-safety/
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 18th, 2013
9:23 pm
barking frog @ 9:02
Yes ……….. already done. I was up there in the fall and saw them. Beautiful condos with a great view.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 18th, 2013
9:24 pm
P.S.
They tore the school down though and built the condos from scratch.
kayaker 71
February 18th, 2013
9:24 pm
Recon, 9:15,
It is already having a profound effect on the daily lives of most Americans. This tax year will be the biggest raise in US history. Health care premiums have sky rocketed, rising in the thousands for an average family. But this is only affecting those in America who produce. Those who live off of the govt tit or have government jobs are still living a decent life. Those that produce are being beaten into submission by excessive regulations, fees, edicts and pronouncements that stand in the way of effective productivity. And all the while, they are being lied to each and every day by an administration who desires nothing but the power to continue to do the same or worse. Our freedoms disappear with the stroke of pen, our government cares about nothing but power and how to use it. The next civil war? Might come sooner than you think.
Vast Right Wing Conspiracy (aka "Knuckle-Dragger")
February 18th, 2013
9:25 pm
Nice that you quote such a fine Christian fellow as Lincoln – they still have his pew at the First Presbyterian Church in Springfield. I would have thought quoting a Christian would be illegal at the august Atlanta Journal/Constitution.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 18th, 2013
9:27 pm
barking frog:
There also used to be an old fire station about 100 yards west of the school set back over the northern slope. It was something out of Norman Rockwell !
It had only one very old truck that would barely fit, a little room with a desk, sink and stove and one small bed upstairs with a pole through the floor so the fireman on duty could slide down to the truck. We used to go by and talk to the fireman after school.
Recon 0311 2533
February 18th, 2013
9:28 pm
Kayaker 71,
I agree with everything you said but I hope the revolution will come at the ballot box.
Thulsa Doom
February 18th, 2013
9:29 pm
“Well when do you think that will have a profound effect on the quality of daily life for Americans? Will it be another 20 years? I don’t believe so.”
Exactly. Its having an effect today and that drag effect will continue to get worse.
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
9:29 pm
Yeah 71, a real bummer that the pro-slavery gang didn’t win, huh?
Just think how awesome things would be for blacks in this country now!
kayaker 71
February 18th, 2013
9:31 pm
Recon, 9:28,
As do I. But I am afraid it will not. Can you imagine what will ensue when someone comes knocking on the average gun owner’s door saying that they are there to confiscate his/her weapons? And if things continue to go as they appear to be going, it might not be that long.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 18th, 2013
9:34 pm
“In response to the recent push to tighten federal gun laws, several states are proposing bills calling for firearms made and kept within their borders be exempt from federal restrictions to protect gun ownership.”
Ooops ! Looks like a little “rebellion” going on here. I wonder if any of these are “northern” states ?
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
9:35 pm
The next civil war? Might come sooner than you think.
BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Talk about some serious slow learners!
But if you insist, I’m sure that the US government as well as state and local authorities will be glad to accommodate you!
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 18th, 2013
9:36 pm
Ooops Again ! Yes !
Those “pesky” Yankees !
“Since then, a host of other states have tried to pass copycat legislation. Alabama, Georgia, Indiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania and Washington have proposed such legislation since January — following the Dec. 14, 2012, shooting in which 20 first-graders and six adults were killed inside a Newtown, Conn., elementary school.”
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/02/18/nine-states-proposing-montana-like-law-challenging-federal-reach-on-gun-rights/#ixzz2LJCGJqrU
kayaker 71
February 18th, 2013
9:36 pm
jam Vet, 9:29.
I only mourn those who died. All were Americans, mostly white, who died for what they believed in. Not some distorted view of reality that you seem to possess. The “pro-slavery gang” as you describe them, were composed of over 300,000 Americans. Got that? Americans. Of course, you cannot see past our ideological nose to recognize the profound tragedy of what happened. It is just more than you can seem to comprehend.
Recon 0311 2533
February 18th, 2013
9:37 pm
Kayaker 71,
We’re old soldiers…I have faith that those who’ve come after us wouldn’t allow that to happen but if we’re once again pressed back into service we would answer the call. Lets pray it never comes to that in this great Republic.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 18th, 2013
9:40 pm
JamVet:
Don’t forget that in countries where this has happened (and look at our own history) ……….when a high percentage of the populace is actually willing to die for their cause then law enforcement and the military becomes just as fractured (they have families and friends too).
It’s rarely just the “people” vs. the police/military.
It’s usually part of the people and the police/military vs. another part of the people and the police/military and that’s how revolutions occur and governments change.
We’re far, far, far from that here but just sayin’.
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
9:40 pm
71, that you defend the institution of slavery by not denouncing it is not my problem.
God would never have let the side of depravity and murderous thugs win. And he didn’t…
kayaker 71
February 18th, 2013
9:43 pm
Gun ownership and the freedom to protect yourself against an intruder or an intrusive government is protected in the 2nd Amendment. There is no other issue that will inflame the American people like this one. It is bigger than the budget, the debt, immigration, health care…… you name it. If you want to see an inflamed public that will rebel against this nonsense, just come to the door of the average gun owner and say that you are there to take away his weapons. I would not like to be standing on that doorstep.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 18th, 2013
9:43 pm
“Mississippi Officially Abolishes Slavery, Ratifies 13th Amendment”
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2013/02/mississippi-officially-abolishes-slavery-ratifies-13th-amendment/
Well there you go !
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 18th, 2013
9:44 pm
kayaker 71:
I really don’t think the libs. realize what they have started with this one.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 18th, 2013
9:45 pm
“God would never have let the side of depravity and murderous thugs win. And he didn’t…”
He let the nation of Israel be taken into slavery more than once.
That should be a lesson to us.
Lord Help Us
February 18th, 2013
9:46 pm
‘If you want to see an inflamed public that will rebel against this nonsense, just come to the door of the average gun owner and say that you are there to take away his weapons. I would not like to be standing on that doorstep.’
Is anyone proposing this? I think you need to depart the fever swamp…
kayaker 71
February 18th, 2013
9:46 pm
Scout, 9:44,
Nor do I.
saywhat?
February 18th, 2013
9:48 pm
Vicksburg is a great national park to go visit. The family and I enjoyed it immensely. My favorite part was walking through a tunnel Union soldiers had dug through a hill crest to avoid sniper fire. We were surrounded by other families with their little kids carrying rebel flags and all, when my 6 year old asks ” Daddy, where is the bad guys tunnel?”. Too funny. My southern born kids think they are Yankees like their old man.
td
February 18th, 2013
9:49 pm
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
9:29 pm
Yeah 71, a real bummer that the pro-slavery gang didn’t win, huh?
Just think how awesome things would be for blacks in this country now!
You do know that there were a great deal of African Americans that were owned by other African Americans prior to and during the civil war?
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 18th, 2013
9:51 pm
“Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look
upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest.”
Gandhi
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 18th, 2013
9:51 pm
Is anyone proposing this?
Yes they are, BENGHAZI and SHUT UP!
Recon 0311 2533
February 18th, 2013
9:51 pm
Kayaker 71, 0311/8541,
With 3 million firearms in this country I don’t think we’ll see a government dink standing on our door steps anytime soon demanding confiscation of our guns. The armed revolution with the U.S. military supporting the people would have commenced long before it.
td
February 18th, 2013
9:51 pm
JamVet,
Slavery was on the way out as a viable economic system at the time of the Civil War. The Industrial revolution made it so that low skilled workers could be paid less then the cost of a slave.
kayaker 71
February 18th, 2013
9:53 pm
Lord Help Us, 9:46,
If the average liberal like Shummer or Feinstein had their way, there would be no more handguns, conceal carry permits, the right to defend your home….. nothing. They want it all. They prance around their real focus while putting window dressing on what they say in public. Most are deathly afraid of the issue and are hesitant to address it for fear of losing an election, which seems to be their purpose in life. Remember how popular Sam Nunn was in Georgia? When he came out backing the Brady Bill, lots of bumper stickers appeared on Georgia cars that said, ” Sam Nunn wants your gun”. He didn’t survive the next election.
Lord Help Us
February 18th, 2013
9:54 pm
‘Yes they are, BENGHAZI and SHUT UP!’
What about Fast and Furious? Remember, that was Obama’s plot to foment anger to garner public support to achieve his goal of gun confiscation…
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
9:56 pm
Yes, and what is your point, td?
Lord Help Us
February 18th, 2013
9:56 pm
‘If the average liberal like Shummer or Feinstein had their way, there would be no more handguns, conceal carry permits, the right to defend your home….. nothing. ‘
Do you have any evidence or do you just make this crap up?
Lord Help Us
February 18th, 2013
9:57 pm
‘With 3 million firearms in this country ‘
I think you forgot a couple zeroes, genius…
Thulsa Doom
February 18th, 2013
9:57 pm
Benghazi, fast and furious, etc. What is it with the Dims highlighting the Obammunists incompetency?
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
9:59 pm
Being paranoid and delusional are not reasons to fear your mini-arsenal is in danger, cons…
Lord Help Us
February 18th, 2013
10:00 pm
‘The armed revolution with the U.S. military supporting the people would have commenced long before it.’
You people need help…seriously…
Recon 0311 2533
February 18th, 2013
10:00 pm
Obama slinked back to Chi town and pitched gun control in a city with already some of the most restrictive gun laws and the most gun violence in nation. How does that paradox equate?
Thulsa Doom
February 18th, 2013
10:00 pm
“I think you forgot a couple zeroes, genius…”
No doubt. There’s got to be a ton of William Raspberry liberals out there with guns that we don’t know about.
Thulsa Doom
February 18th, 2013
10:01 pm
“How does that paradox equate?”
It perfectly equates to more liberal stupidity.
Recon 0311 2533
February 18th, 2013
10:02 pm
You people need help…seriously…
Dumber than a box of rocks, aren’t you.
Lord Help Us
February 18th, 2013
10:03 pm
‘No doubt. There’s got to be a ton of William Raspberry liberals out there with guns that we don’t know about.’
No, genius junior…it is commonly reported that an estimated 300 million firearms are in circulation in the country. Read…cuz…
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 18th, 2013
10:03 pm
What about Fast and Furious? Remember, that was Obama’s plot to foment anger to garner public support to achieve his goal of gun confiscation…
My personal favorite comes from professor James Tracy who claims that the Newtown shooting didn’t happen and the Obama administration hired actors to shape public opinion.
Jackie
February 18th, 2013
10:04 pm
There were free blacks who owned slaves prior to the civil war, but, one has to look at who they were and the actual number free blacks who owned slaves.
http://slaverebellion.org/index.php?page=the-black-slave-owners
Lord Help Us
February 18th, 2013
10:05 pm
‘Dumber than a box of rocks, aren’t you’
Hey (h/t Sy), I ain’t the one dreaming up ‘armed revolution with the U.S. military supporting the people.’ You turdblossoms live in a fantasy world…
Recon 0311 2533
February 18th, 2013
10:09 pm
I think we need to live in the present and not in the past or Lord Help Us.
Brosephus™
February 18th, 2013
10:10 pm
Scout @ 8:22
Against all enemies, both foreign and domestic…
@ 8:32
Seems to run afoul of the 1st Amendment, but I can’t give a honest assessment because I can’t put myself under the same constraints he faced. Hindsight is available to me whereas he didn’t have that luxury.
—————-
josef
Melanin has its privileges.
Jackie
February 18th, 2013
10:14 pm
Fast and Furious timeline.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/06/21/what-is-operation-fast-and-furious-11-questions-answers.html
Benghazi timeline.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444620104578008922056244096.html
Soothsayer
February 18th, 2013
10:14 pm
““In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.”
– Friedrich Nietzsche
Look before I leap...
February 18th, 2013
10:16 pm
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
9:56 pm
Yes, and what is your point, td?
I think td’s point was that the civil war was unnecessary. That the economically and socially progressive south would have eventually discarded slavery and granted full citizen rights to the millions of dark skinned persons within their borders. Ensuring educational, economic and social parity with the white people.
If the above is true, then the south’s biggest beef is not that the slaves were freed, but that the big bad federal government forced them to do 2 or 3 generations before it would have happened naturally.
Lord Help Us
February 18th, 2013
10:17 pm
‘I think we need to live in the present and not in the past or Lord Help Us.’
IMHO, people like you need to tether yourselves to reality and knock off the fantasy-land crap…Nobody’s coming for your guns, Obama was born in Hawaii, Benghazi was a tragedy (not a scandal), and for every instance of ‘moral decay’ you see, I see lots of examples of humanity moving forward and more just.
Alex
February 18th, 2013
10:21 pm
Josef, I don’t study comparative religions much, but your comment on the past suggesting your future strikes me as buddist or at least the philosophy of james lee burke.
Look before I leap...
February 18th, 2013
10:22 pm
Recon 0311 2533
February 18th, 2013
10:09 pm
I think we need to live in the present and not in the past or Lord Help Us.
If we don’t recognize that today is a product of what we did yesterday and tomorrow a result of what we do today, then we are condemned to live in a world of tomorrow being nothing but our yesterdays.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 18th, 2013
10:26 pm
td:
“Slavery was on the way out as a viable economic system at the time of the Civil War. The Industrial revolution made it so that low skilled workers could be paid less then the cost of a slave.”
Just now reading a fascinating book entilted “1493″ by Charles C. Mann
In brief:
Indentured servants from Europe were actually cheaper than slaves. So why didn’t we use them instead?
Slaves from Africa were in large percentages immune from the strains of malaria present from Maryland south.
Indentured servants from Europe weren’t so starting in the 1600’s they were used mainly north of Maryland and slaves south of Maryland.
Had the situation be reversed ………….. guess what ?
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 18th, 2013
10:28 pm
Brosephus @ 10:10
Yes ……….. there can be enemies against the Constitution that are both “foreign and domestic”.
We have seen this throughout our history both internally and externally ……….. and those “enemies” can and have been both conservative and liberal !
Thulsa Doom
February 18th, 2013
10:29 pm
“it is commonly reported that an estimated 300 million firearms are in circulation in the country”
Another proud exclamation of a commonly known factoid- although I admit I thought the number was at only 270 million. Feel good to repeat something that we all pretty much know genius? Geez.
Recon 0311 2533
February 18th, 2013
10:30 pm
As disheartening as it is for many these days it will be none the less historically pertinent to document the negative effect political correctness has had on our society. In the life time of many on this blog it would have been an impeachable offense not that many years ago for an administration to refuse to enforce the laws of the land. Laws such as DOMA, immigration laws and undermining the military’s UCMJ. How far the left has dragged this great nation down.
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
10:31 pm
2 or 3 generations?
More like 20 or 30!
The Baghdad Bob Party does crack me up though!
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 18th, 2013
10:34 pm
An EXCELLENT read !
Toughest Gun Laws/Worst Crime (The Boston Globe 2/17/13):
Major points:
“In 1998, Massachusetts passed what was hailed as the toughest gun-control legislation in the country.
Since 1998, gun crime in Massachusetts has gotten worse, not better.
Don’t hold your breath waiting for gun-control activists to admit they were wrong.
Massachusetts probably has the toughest laws on the books, but what happens is people go across borders and buy guns and bring them into our state.
This has become a popular argument in gun-control circles. It may even be convincing to someone emotionally committed to the belief that ever-stricter gun control is a plausible path to safety. But it doesn’t hold water.
Blaming the neighbors may be ideologically comforting. But those aren’t the states whose crime rates are up.”
http://www.jeffjacoby.com/12950/after-the-toughest-gun-law-gun-crime-rose
Recon 0311 2533
February 18th, 2013
10:35 pm
our yesterdays.
look before you leap, our yesterdays were pretty damned good in comparison to the rest of this world. We built a strong nation that the left wants to bring down.
appleseed
February 18th, 2013
10:35 pm
Armed revolution with the military supporting the people.Which people would they support?Black, Hispanic or old white men?Who would the women support?
Lord Help Us
February 18th, 2013
10:39 pm
Old, bitter, delusional and living in the past…
Sad…
Thulsa Doom
February 18th, 2013
10:40 pm
“That the economically and socially progressive south would have eventually discarded slavery and granted full citizen rights to the millions of dark skinned persons within their borders.”
Had the North not gone to war the South would have eventually abolished slavery but it certainly would have taken several more generations- probably 50 years or more. I don’t think the shame and embarassment of such a system could have lasted very far into the 20th century if at all. Plus I think from a labor economics standpoint slavery is a terrible system for advancement. The use of cheap labor is a disincentive to innovate and improve worker productivity. And more importantly than that you’re vastly underemploying the human capital of the enslaved people. When you have the potential of someone like a Ben Carson picking cotton its a horrible underutilization of human capital that deprives the society at large of economic benefits as well as the individual. It just would have taken a while for the Southern leaders to realize and admit that along with shaming them into change.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 18th, 2013
10:43 pm
Enter your comments hereHeadline (AJC): “First-of-a-kind: Waffle House charges diners a security fee”
“Waffle House at Underground Atlanta has added a 20 percent surcharge for security.”
IT’S NOT THE GUN ……….. IT’S THE CULTURE THAT HAS CHANGED !
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/waffle-house-smothers-customers-with-security-surc/nWQmX/
Recon 0311 2533
February 18th, 2013
10:43 pm
Stupidity and ignorance will unfortunately be with us for awhile. Hopefully, not for quite awhile.
Look before I leap...
February 18th, 2013
10:46 pm
@Recon 2533:
Ignoring for the moment that you did a 180:
Where exactly do you think in an historical sense we peaked as a nation?
Lord Help Us
February 18th, 2013
10:46 pm
‘Stupidity and ignorance will unfortunately be with us for awhile.’
…says the genius predicting, ‘The armed revolution with the U.S. military supporting the people would have commenced long before it.’
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 18th, 2013
10:46 pm
“It just would have taken a while for the Southern leaders to realize and admit that along with shaming them into change.”
Along with shaming Northern/New England ship owner/slave traders from bringing new slaves in (which had long been against the law).
People fail to realize that Great Britain had outlawed slavery in its colonies only about 30 years before. Child labor (just another form of slavery) continued in this country for another 50 years.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 18th, 2013
10:47 pm
P.S.
And most of that child labor/slavery was up north in those “wonderful” factories and coal mines.
Brosephus™
February 18th, 2013
10:48 pm
When you have the potential of someone like a Ben Carson picking cotton its a horrible underutilization of human capital that deprives the society at large of economic benefits as well as the individual.
Under the American system of slavery, a Ben Carson would not have existed, and if he did, that would have been the exception to the norm. Slaves were forbidden to be educated, so the potential would have been hard to find.
That’s enough of this for me tonight, y’all have fun.
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
10:48 pm
Per the esteemed Mr. Jindal, the stupid, insulting and backward party needs to do something different or yes, they will not be with us for more than a little while more…
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 18th, 2013
10:49 pm
Lord Help us:
Did you know that more Georgians fought for the Crown (King George) than for the Tri-Cornered Hat (George Washington) during our Revolution.
I wonder which side you would have been on ??
Recon 0311 2533
February 18th, 2013
10:49 pm
The old hard left of the 60’s and their wannabe’s will be dieing off over the next few years. Hopefully, my young daughter and grand children can rebirth a saner more productive America that I once knew.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 18th, 2013
10:52 pm
Brosephus:
Do you know who almost went to jail before the “Civil War” for teaching slaves to read and write in violation of state law (Lynchburg, Va.) ?? He was told to “cease” and he refused.
Professor Thomas J. (Stonewall) Jackson
Recon 0311 2533
February 18th, 2013
10:52 pm
says the genius predicting, ‘The armed revolution with the U.S. military supporting the people would have commenced long before it.
And so the asinine one omits the complete post. Typical.
Lord Help Us
February 18th, 2013
10:53 pm
‘Child labor (just another form of slavery) continued in this country for another 50 years.’
That, along with segregation, love canal and thalidomide are part of what Recon misses about the good ol’ days…
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 18th, 2013
10:54 pm
Recon:
That’s a very good point !!!
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
10:55 pm
Baghdad Bob was right about Romney’s big win, so why would anyone doubt his prognostications about the death of liberalism? (Even though his beloved Republican Guard is getting massacred pretty much every election these days!)
Look before I leap...
February 18th, 2013
10:56 pm
I noticed Recon 2533, you did not answer my question directly.
You posted something about the 60’s leftists… would it be that you think the 50’s were America’s pinnacle?
Jackie
February 18th, 2013
10:59 pm
@Scout
Don’t know if you are aware, but many Southern states resisted joining the war of succession. There were many areas of most Southern states that actively supported maintaining the Union.
http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ncuv/honey1.htm
http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ncuv/honey1.htm
Thulsa Doom
February 18th, 2013
11:00 pm
Brocephus,
That was my whole point- that under slavery a man like Ben Carson and his potential and talents would have been wasted.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 18th, 2013
11:02 pm
Lord Help us:
You must study/learn from history based on the time frame in which the people lived. You must put yourself in their place or you get only about 50% of the true picture.
Another example:
Stonewall Jackson’s pastor received a letter from him about two weeks after Bull Run. He was very excited as he knew it must be a first hand account of the battle and he would read it to the congregation. Instead, there was only a short note and a little money. The note said that in the events of the past few weeks he had forgotten to forward his offering to the Sunday School class that he had taught. A little money was enclosed.
What class did he teach prior to the war? This great professor at VMI and Confederate Warrior ?
It was a primary class of black slave boys.
Look it up.
Those events and that war were much more complicated than we can EVER imagine.
Recon 0311 2533
February 18th, 2013
11:03 pm
Look before you leap,
Sorry I don’t recall, but if I didn’t it was because you’re question probably didn’t deserve a direct answer.
Thulsa Doom
February 18th, 2013
11:03 pm
Scout,
What stood out about that Waffle House article was that it said right there at that Peachtree center marta station that 261 felonies were committed last year according to the police. Reminds me of the debate last year when the libs said that there was no more crime associated with Marta stations than anywhere else in general.
Jackie
February 18th, 2013
11:03 pm
Other supporting info concerning the Civil War and surprisingly who chose what side.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/04/11/966022/-The-Truth-About-the-Confederacy
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 18th, 2013
11:04 pm
Jackie:
And you are correct. That’s why it is more complicated than we can imagine.
Tennessee voted to leave by only one vote.
Maryland would have left the Union but Lincoln wouldn’t allow the vote.
Many northerners were sympathetic to letting the South go.
I could go on and on but you get the point.
Thank you for your input.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 18th, 2013
11:05 pm
Thulsa @ 11:03
Ah, yes …………………………
Recon 0311 2533
February 18th, 2013
11:05 pm
Getting late…Good night y’all. Taps
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 18th, 2013
11:07 pm
Jackie:
During our Revolution only about 10-15% of Americans actually took up arms/put their lives on the line.
About 40% were on the fence and about 40% actually fought for (Tories)/supported the Crown.
But ………….. a dedicated few can make a difference.
Lord Help Us
February 18th, 2013
11:09 pm
‘Those events and that war were much more complicated than we can EVER imagine.’
No doubt. I have first hand experience with some of the most racist people you can imagine. I have seen them go to great lengths with their time, money and personal commitment to help out those they disparage and rail against. Doesn’t change the fact that they are horribly racist, but there is a lot of good in them too.
Jackie
February 18th, 2013
11:11 pm
@Scout
A dedicated few can make a huge difference.
However, our history as always shown that are dedicated few usually take up arms to protect the many.
Thulsa Doom
February 18th, 2013
11:13 pm
Scout,
Makes you realize some data was ignored or suppressed in that column last year concerning real crime stats around marta stations.
Jackie
February 18th, 2013
11:13 pm
@Scout
Should have read “our history as always shown that a dedicated few…”
Look before I leap...
February 18th, 2013
11:18 pm
@Recon 2533
I’ll recap – this was an invitation to an honest and sincere discussion – of course you are welcome to defer and abstain – just say so and avoid indirect responses:
YOU @ 10:35P
look before you leap, our yesterdays were pretty damned good in comparison to the rest of this world. We built a strong nation that the left wants to bring down.
This is response to my post at 10:22
If we don’t recognize that today is a product of what we did yesterday and tomorrow a result of what we do today, then we are condemned to live in a world of tomorrow being nothing but our yesterdays.
look before you leap, our yesterdays were pretty damned good in comparison to the rest of this world. We built a strong nation that the left wants to bring down.
I simply asked you, if you think America as a country has peaked (and therefore on the decline), then where (in terms of time) do you think we did so?
Look before I leap...
February 18th, 2013
11:28 pm
A bit late for this thread – but here is a thought experiment:
Suppose – the Union loses the Civil War and the CSA wins.
So now we are two countries.
Who’s better off? the USA. The CSA? Do we do the things that history recorded?
Does the industrial revolution occur?
Who wins WWII?
Who creates and deploys the first atomic weapon?
Who lands on the moon?
Who eradicates Polio?
Are we BetaMax or VHS?
appleseed
February 18th, 2013
11:35 pm
Had recon lived in slavery days He would have been the Mastah of Black Oaks.With several picaninnys running around.
Thulsa Doom
February 18th, 2013
11:49 pm
“Suppose – the Union loses the Civil War and the CSA wins.
So now we are two countries.
Who’s better off? the USA. The CSA?”
The USA would have unquestionably been much better off and the gulf between the 2 nations would be vastly farther apart then the economic differences of the 2 regions today. As I stated earlier the institution of slavery by its very nature holds back nations and keeps them mired in poverty. Its a horribly inefficient way to run a nation.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 18th, 2013
11:51 pm
Jackie @ 11:11
Yes ……… I agree. Enjoyed the discussion.
Taps !
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 18th, 2013
11:54 pm
Look before I leap… :
One more quick one …………
Suppose Great Britain had one?
)
The U.S. didn’t exist ?
We would have been one huge Commonwealth from the Gulf Coast up to and including Canada?
Would WWI and WWII even have occurred as Great Britain would have been so much stronger?
Would we have football or rugby …………….
The list is endless !!!
bman.
February 18th, 2013
11:57 pm
“Suppose – the Union loses the Civil War and the CSA wins.”
What if I had purchased some Apple and Google stock….
getalife
February 19th, 2013
12:56 am
Surrender or be annihilated gop.
Get out of the way .
bman.
February 19th, 2013
4:06 am
I hope Mister Bookman blogs about this….
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/state-regional/counties-urge-patience-as-new-tag-laws-take-effect/nWR9p/
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 19th, 2013
6:58 am
You heard it here first:
http://wonkette.com/501803/conspiracy-o-the-week-obama-will-declare-christians-insane-put-them-in-asylums-feed-on-their-souls
josef
February 19th, 2013
7:02 am
ALEX
“Josef, I don’t study comparative religions much, but your comment on the past suggesting your future strikes me as buddist or at least the philosophy of james lee burke.:
I caught this on the way out the door, If you are at all interested in my thoughts this direction, check back in with me on whatever is the current thread. Mine is not a particularly theological opinion.
Granny Godzilla
February 19th, 2013
7:31 am
Feed on their souls?
Braised or Broiled?
Perhaps USinUK can provide a most excellent recipe.
What’s the right wine to accompany filet of soul?
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 19th, 2013
7:32 am
In the film, Lawrence Wilkerson, Powell’s chief of staff at the time, recalls the day Congress passed a resolution authorizing Bush to attack Iraq:
Powell walked into my office and without so much as a fare-thee-well, he walked over to the window and he said, “I wonder what’ll happen when we put 500,000 troops into Iraq and comb the country from one end to the other and find nothing?”
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 19th, 2013
7:34 am
What’s the right wine to accompany filet of soul?
A nice Chianti.
Thomas
February 19th, 2013
7:44 am
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-02-19/paulson-leads-funds-to-bermuda-tax-dodge-aiding-billionaires.html
crap crap crap and more crap
Paulson made his billions by sucking GSachs into creating a short residential real estate product and offloading it to weaker and less intelligent players such as Citi. cure cancer feed the homeless hire a vet adopt a kitten simplify and legitimize the tax code
Thomas
February 19th, 2013
7:45 am
Kam- spot on Burgundys and Chiantis are the most overlooked of the wines
Corbin Sharpe. I think, therefore I am...I think.
February 19th, 2013
8:01 am
Good morning to all y’all folks out there. Totally off topic here (go figure), but I just finished watching clips fro Rachel Maddow’s expose on the build up for the second Iraq war ala Bush Cheney, based on the book “Hubris”. My God, it is good. It reminds one how stupid we can be.
Two things I didn’t get out of it though were, why did Bush have such a hard on for Saddam and why isn’t he and his cronies in jail now?
You really should watch it
Thomas Heyward Jr
February 19th, 2013
8:03 am
It is no wonder why Progressives worship this vile despicable creature.
Murder, violence, tyranny, mayhem.
Lincoln is not unlike the present odious chunk of bile vomited forth from the lower intestine of Illinois——–
.
When Richmond fell another interesting little tidbit of American history occurred. Lincoln’s subordinates ordered that the Episcopal churches, in which it is the custom to pray for the leader of the country, were to pray for Abraham Lincoln in conquered areas of the South. If they refused to pray for Abraham Lincoln, Northen troops were to take the priest away from the altar, thrust him out of the church, close the church and turn the church over to Northem denominations.
Another development in the course of the war which shows something of the barbarity with which it was waged is the famous incident involving Benjamin Butler in New Orleans. General Butler was one of the most ruthless and cruel Northern generals. When he occupied New Orleans he embarked upon a course of insult and abuse toward the civilian population. There were hardly any males of military age left in New Orleans. They had all been sent off to the army, so that the women were deprived of their sons, husbands and fathers to protect them. It was apparently inconceivable to Butler that these women would not welcome their Northern conquerors under the circumstances of the war and he took umbrage at the fact that one Southem lady spat at a Northem soldier who persisted in making advances toward her. When Butler heard of this he issued his Order Number 28 which read as follows:
As the officers and soldiers of the United States have been subject to repeated insults from the women calling themselves “ladies” of New Orleans in return for the most scrupulous non-interference and courtesy on our part [it is to be noted that there were Negro troops among the occupying army] it is ordered that hereafter when any female shall by word, gesture or movement insult or show contempt for any officer or soldier of the United States she shall be regarded and held liable to be treated as a woman of the town plying her avocation.55
This in essence was a “right to rape” order which he issued to his troops and he undoubtedly, given his personality, was gratified by the effect it worked upon the civilian population. I assume that he was also astonished at the outrage that it aroused around the world, because the order redounded to the great discredit of the United States. Palmerston, the British Prime Minister, wrote to Charles Francis Adams, the U.S. Minister in London the following concerning Butler’s order
I will venture to say that no exanple can be found in the history of civilized nations till the publication of this order of a General guilty in cold blood of so infamous an act as deliberately to hand over the female inhabitants of a conquered city to the unbridled license of an unrestrained soldiery.55
Later he said to the English Parliament: “It is a proclamation to which I do not scruple to attach the epithet ‘infamous.’ Any English man must blush to think that such an act has been committed by one belonging to the Anglo-Saxon race.”
Likewise the French Minister in Washington, Mercier, who was concerned because so many of the women in New Orleans were of French extraction, issued strong remonstrances from the French government. Finally, Lincoln relieved Butler of his command — but not because of Buder’s treatment of the civilians of New Orleans; not because Butler and his brother were believed to be selling supplies through the black market to the Confederates; not because Butler ordered a civilian hanged: Lincoln did not remove Butler for these reasons. It was when Butler began confiscating foreign property and all of the foreign consuls united and objected to his behavior in a unanimous letter to Washington that Butler was removed. Lincoln’s reaction to the complaints was to give Butler the assignment of Commander of the Department of Virginia and North Carolina and Commissioner of Prisoner-of-War Exchanges.
.
Decent People shudder at the evilness.
Granny Godzilla
February 19th, 2013
8:05 am
Corbin…..
And some still think we should take the GOP seriously on foreign policy.
Granny Godzilla
February 19th, 2013
8:08 am
” odious chunk of bile vomited forth ”
mellifluous mendacity
independent thinker
February 19th, 2013
8:17 am
How the modern Stupid Party came into being:
“”"”"”"”"”"”But great as our tax burden is, it has not kept pace with public spending. For decades, we have piled deficit upon deficit, mortgaging our future and our children’s future for the temporary convenience of the present. To continue this long trend is to guarantee tremendous social, cultural, political, and economic upheavals.
You and I, as individuals, can, by borrowing, live beyond our means, but for only a limited period of time. Why, then, should we think that collectively, as a nation, we are not bound by that same limitation?
We must act today in order to preserve tomorrow. And let there be no misunderstanding—we are going to begin to act, beginning today.”"”"”"”"”"”"”"
.
Saint Ronald’s First Inaugaral address
“”"”"”"”"”"”"Instead, history shows that Ronald Reagan reversed a long trend of reducing the national debt as a percentage of GDP, which had been lowered by every previous president (except Gerald Ford) since the end of World War II.
“”"”"”"”"”"”"”Ronald Reagan exploded the federal debt, eventually to over a trillion dollars, by cutting taxes while demanding that the nation fund a huge expansion of the military. Even the Wall Street Journal at the time was aware of the unsound nature of this Republican deficit-spending scheme. They and other newspapers warned of the “baleful effects of big [government] deficits.”
Reagan was hopeful that the deficits would frighten the American people into supporting a wide-ranging series of cuts in social spending, not military spending, and while some cuts were made in welfare programs, which increased the suffering of the poor, the debt as a percentage of GDP ballooned under Reagan and George H. W. Bush (Bush I) back to a point it had been at under another Republican, Dwight Eisenhower.”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"
From the Examiner.com
Remeber the 600 ship Navy- and Star Wars?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 19th, 2013
8:17 am
Corbin, rather sickening to find even more evidence of the deception of the American public and spending so much money on a war that was purely for Bush’s ego. Even more disturbing that the neocons continue to waive the flag of stupidity about this over and over again.
JamVet
February 19th, 2013
8:23 am
Heyward would prefer that his and fellow southerners could still keep slaves.
But because we had to kill a whole bunch of them and put an end to that little slavery game of theirs, they can’t and they HATE it. Especially that a liberal did that to them!
Now 150 years on the losers have to be content to say modern day blacks are stupid, lazy mooches for not joining them and their American fascist party.
Too bad, so sad for Heyward.
TaxPayer
February 19th, 2013
8:25 am
If Heyward were to wrap himself in that Confederate flag any tighter, he’d choke himself.
Corbin Sharpe. I think, therefore I am...I think.
February 19th, 2013
8:25 am
“Remeber the 600 ship Navy- and Star Wars?”
I definitely remember the 600 ship thing…. when this was announced, I said they would have to bring back the draft to crew all of them. At the time I was stationed on a Destroyer whose standard compliment was 260 Hands. We were operating her and meeting all commitments with 155 hands. Needless to say, we wore a lot of different hats and sleep was a myth, but we did have our pride in our ability to “jury rig” .
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 19th, 2013
8:30 am
A moderated post about wine?????
Ok let’s break it up to find the problem.
Chianti is generally a pasta wine.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 19th, 2013
8:32 am
I prefer Valpolicella (or Amarone as a treat if I save enough pennies) as a red and Pinot Gris from the Alsace as a white.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 19th, 2013
8:34 am
Huh?
The thing that hung up was what I copy/pasted from Thomas?
GT
February 19th, 2013
8:35 am
Lincoln had great vision, I often wonder what vision the south had. There is a toll on a nation that lives immorally even if they have not admitted it or see it as immoral. Lincoln and the north saw this, a mature vision of how we need to conduct ourselves. The reason these states prosper and we in the south don’t is they live by a different code, they don’t justify injustice by misreading the bible. You may think you are fooling someone but at the end of the day honest Abe was right.
Thomas Heyward Jr
February 19th, 2013
8:35 am
JamVet
February 19th, 2013
8:23 am
Heyward would prefer that his and fellow southerners could still keep slaves.
——————————————————————————————-
.
What would a slave such as you know what the verb “prefer” means?
.
You should stick to your Prog talking points.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 19th, 2013
8:35 am
Oh noooo Kam is wining.
комиссар (Occupation)
February 19th, 2013
8:37 am
“General Butler was one of the most ruthless and cruel Northern generals.”
Sort of a Yankee Nathan Bedford Forrest, huh.
indigo
February 19th, 2013
8:38 am
Thomas Heyward Jr. -8:35
Why don’t you just say “no, I don’t prefer that we keep slaves”?
The flip answer you did give makes us all wonder.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 19th, 2013
8:38 am
Keep
I’m sure that the sun is over the yardarm somewhere.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 19th, 2013
8:39 am
GT:
Uh huh !
“Rust Belt States Losing People, Political Clout”
“The latest census figures show that states in much of the Midwest and Northeast have been overtaken in population growth by the South and West.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/22/rust-belt-states-losing-p_n_800557.html
Corbin Sharpe. I think, therefore I am...I think.
February 19th, 2013
8:40 am
Being a Southerner, I think I have the right to say that the South of the 1860’s had a lot of Chutzpah, thinking that, even though they had no industrial base, no navy, no war material, and no way to get them, that they could win a war with the Union. Yep, Chutzpah…
TaxPayer
February 19th, 2013
8:41 am
The flip answer you did give makes us all wonder.
What’s there to wonder about.
JamVet
February 19th, 2013
8:41 am
Thomas, you White Power boys are a trip. A real bad one with a hundred and fifty year hangover! No wonder you are so paranoid and delusional!
Go put on your sheets and burn Lincoln in effigy.
You’ll feel better.
barking frog
February 19th, 2013
8:42 am
The cotton gin revolutionized the cotton industry but
would not have abolished slavery because it couldn’t
serve drinks on the verandah or service the massuh
in its quarters.
Thomas Heyward Jr
February 19th, 2013
8:43 am
indigo
February 19th, 2013
8:38 am
Thomas Heyward Jr. -8:35
Why don’t you just say “no, I don’t prefer that we keep slaves”?
The flip answer you did give makes us all wonder.
—————————————————————————————–
.
Nor you………………..would understand the NAP.
Non-Agression Pact.
.
Something went wrong at an early age with progs.
.
wonder away.
Decency will prevail.
Thomas Heyward Jr
February 19th, 2013
8:46 am
barking frog
February 19th, 2013
8:42 am
The cotton gin revolutionized the cotton industry but
would not have abolished slavery because it couldn’t
serve drinks on the verandah or service the massuh
in its quarters.
——————————————————————–
.
Yea…………..kinda like what working folks are doing now,
for the bankster’s and their respective congress puppets.
.
lol
barking frog
February 19th, 2013
8:50 am
Thomas Heyward Jr.
Yea…………..kinda like what working folks are doing now,
for the bankster’s and their respective congress puppets
………………………………………………………………………………..
While an undesirable situation, not even close to slavery.
Granny Godzilla
February 19th, 2013
8:55 am
THjr
I loved the part of Roots when Kunta Kinte took his vacation……
Oh and when Kizzie got maternity leave…that was cool too.
Christian Conservative
February 19th, 2013
8:56 am
Jay
“He was certainly respected by every nation as was Bush. Clintoon and the current White House buffoon were laughed at…
Oh yeah. The Iranians sure respected him. He sent them a cake and a Bible! Oh, and the Lebanese! They respected him for turning tail and retreating after hundreds of our Marines were slaughtered in Beirut, and then taking it out on mighty Grenada. And the Israelis were no doubt in awe when they learned that he had been there in person filming the liberation of Nazi concentration camps.
I’m amazed at you Jay. I realize you’re a left wing buffoon but slimming Reagan who fundamentally transformed the US into the super power it is today by his extraordinary leadership. Of course its slowly being chipped away with the current inept leader we now have but Reagan set us on a path to greatness after the Carter debacle. I guess in the 80’s you were part of the dazed and confused crowd who simply did not understand what he did for us.
GT
February 19th, 2013
8:56 am
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801 one of Christy’s problems with New Jersey not getting rescue money which has set this moderate Republican revolt in motion is that state gives a multiple dollar for every dollar received. A rich state of NJ that has been supporting the welfare of the much poorer south in such times as Katrina is denied by the same rogue Republicans that received the charity of New Jersey. Also check the test scores of the rust belt you introduced. Then look at the job we are doing down here because of our lack of resources. Self inflicted suffering is what the south is all about, that manifest itself in immoral behavior.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 19th, 2013
8:57 am
Got this from the dead tree edition of the AJC this morning
http://www.berry.edu/eaglecam/
Saw one of the adults earlier, but kinda quiet now.
St Simons - he-ne-ha
February 19th, 2013
8:58 am
Thank goodness for Google. Its Copernicus’ birthday.
The one that 500 yrs ago said ‘No, the earth revolves around the sun.’
Thank goodness for Google.
Our children in Georgia couldn’t learn that in their
suppy-side-jaysus-rode-the-dinosaur-fer-profit skool.
And that knowledge is 500 yrs old.
Way to go, Ga cons. yee-haw.
St Simons - he-ne-ha
February 19th, 2013
9:02 am
wow, and that’s the news from planet kolob…
how’s the weather?
Thomas Heyward Jr
February 19th, 2013
9:04 am
barking frog
February 19th, 2013
8:50 am
Thomas Heyward Jr.
Yea…………..kinda like what working folks are doing now,
for the bankster’s and their respective congress puppets
………………………………………………………………………………..
While an undesirable situation, not even close to slavery.
————————————————————————————————-
.
Yea..whatever dude.
Try telling that to the world’s largest prison population,(at present more than all slaves that ever existed in America) the world’s largest population on probation, the millions of incarcerated defense contractor/workers.
Try telling that to the millions of americans that initially owed the IRS a few thousand bucks but watched in horror as that balance has bloomed into millions of dollars.
Try telling that to a small business that has government thugs storm into their office space and demand that said business owner has GOT to pay a certainwage, has GOT to hire a certain amount of genders and/or sexual preferences.
Try telling that colledge loan debtors.
Try telling that to Private Manning(isolation now for about 5 years) or the other poor souls in Gitmo.
What about the thousands shot down or murdered in the streets by our beloved Police state or the cwomen and children red-misted overseas.?
.
You’re right though………………it’s not even close to slavery.
.
We get to vote for our masters.
.
lol
.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
February 19th, 2013
9:05 am
I guess in the 80’s you were part of the dazed and confused crowd who simply did not understand what he did for us.
There are a lot of us in that group.
The myth making on the right of Reagan is incredible.
The truth is he wasn’t a very good President.
Thomas Heyward Jr
February 19th, 2013
9:06 am
Granny Godzilla
February 19th, 2013
8:55 am
THjr
I loved the part of Roots when Kunta Kinte took his vacation……
Oh and when Kizzie got maternity leave…that was cool too.
————————
.
another prog that confuses hoolywood with reality.
.
Dime a dozen.
.
lol
JamVet
February 19th, 2013
9:06 am
Thomas and those like him with their Klan forgiving backgrounds, will NEVER allow themselves to admit that the very cause of the Civil War that they championed was unaspologetic murder, brutality and torture. Of innocent men, women AND children.
And he writes about decency?
Please.
It’s all good. This issue separates the wheat from the chaff and as I have lived in the Deep South for 36 years I can say unequivocally that MOST southerners are the wheat. Great Americans who would never defend that most unrighteous cause – in any way or form. This, in spite of the romanticism given it in films like Gone With the Wind.
That a tiny percentage, like Thomas, do so, is in and of itself, interesting, but in the picture, he and his Whites Only cronies are completely irrelevant.
Other than as modern day curiosities…
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
February 19th, 2013
9:06 am
Thomas Heyward Jr
Please put on your tin foil hat at this time.
The black helicopters will be with you shortly.
td
February 19th, 2013
9:07 am
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 18th, 2013
10:26 pm
td:
“Slavery was on the way out as a viable economic system at the time of the Civil War. The Industrial revolution made it so that low skilled workers could be paid less then the cost of a slave.”
Just now reading a fascinating book entilted “1493″ by Charles C. Mann
In brief:
Indentured servants from Europe were actually cheaper than slaves. So why didn’t we use them instead?
Agree and disagree. At the time, land was money and the normal indentured servant agreement was to give them land after their term was over. In addition, if the indentured servant had a child then the child was free but if a slave had a child then that was another slave that the owner did not have to pay for.
I had never heard of the malaria theory before but it sounds viable.
комиссар (Occupation)
February 19th, 2013
9:09 am
“I realize you’re a left wing buffoon but slimming Reagan who fundamentally transformed the US into the super power it is today by his extraordinary leadership”
Boy, we’re drinking the thick stuff this morning.
“Of course its slowly being chipped away with the current inept leader we now have but Reagan set us on a path to greatness after the Carter debacle”
What do you make of the fact that it was under Reagan that our deficits really started to increase substantially? And what do you make of the fact that it was the Reagan era that kicked off the great divergence between average incomes and the incomes of the top earners, the lords of Wall St., etc., in the share of the pie of productivity that translates to income for the bulk of earners vis-a-vis the very wealthy, a trend that has only accelerated in the present day?
And by the way, on that Lebanon/Grenada episode, You didn’t really address Jay’s point, did you?
I bet you think Reagan single-handedly brought the Soviet Union to its knees, don’t you?
St Simons - he-ne-ha
February 19th, 2013
9:12 am
ground control to major tom….
Corbin Sharpe. I think, therefore I am...I think.
February 19th, 2013
9:12 am
“The truth is he wasn’t a very good President.”
Well, in Ronnie’s defense, he was suffering from dementia. The Presidency was being run by his handlers…
barking frog
February 19th, 2013
9:13 am
Thomas Heyward Jr.
We get to vote for our masters
……………………………………………
The ability to vote against them denies that they are
our masters. Criminals are not forced to commit crimes.
The IRS cannot turn a pittance owed into millions owed.
College students are not forced to take loans.
Businesses are not forced to start uneducated.
War is hell.
Christian Conservative
February 19th, 2013
9:14 am
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
I guess in the 80’s you were part of the dazed and confused crowd who simply did not understand what he did for us.
There are a lot of us in that group.
The myth making on the right of Reagan is incredible.
The truth is he wasn’t a very good President.
Most people disagree… The illusions of the left about Reagan are laughable considering the new front man for the dem party….
Granny Godzilla
February 19th, 2013
9:14 am
THjr
Confuse hollywood with reality?
Are you suggesting slaves DID get vacation time and maternity leave?
You really are a hoot.
Thomas Heyward Jr
February 19th, 2013
9:15 am
JamVet
February 19th, 2013
9:06 am
Thomas and those like him with their Klan forgiving backgrounds, will NEVER allow themselves to admit that the very cause of the Civil War that they championed was unaspologetic murder, brutality and torture. Of innocent men, women AND children.
And he writes about decency?
Please.
It’s all good. This issue separates the wheat from the chaff and as I have lived in the Deep South for 36 years I can say unequivocally that MOST southerners are the wheat. Great Americans who would never defend that most unrighteous cause – in any way or form. This, in spite of the romanticism given it in films like Gone With the Wind.
That a tiny percentage, like Thomas, do so, is in and of itself, interesting, but in the picture, he and his Whites Only cronies are completely irrelevant.
Other than as modern day curiosities…
————————————————————————–
.
I am immune to your race-baiting.
Most well-raised southern boys realized at an early age that this was the tactic of the immature, crass, and ones without class.
.
Albeit………Its never too late to improve one’s self.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 19th, 2013
9:15 am
The Presidency was being run by his handlers…
Or Nancy’s astrologer.
barking frog
February 19th, 2013
9:18 am
Reagan knew where the camera was, at all times.
Christian Conservative
February 19th, 2013
9:18 am
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten:
Reagan won 49 states in his re-election. But he wasn’t a very good President… LOL…
JamVet
February 19th, 2013
9:18 am
OK, the Obama Recovery calls.
I’ll leave you good people to help the sad Thomas come to terms with his “Negro problem”!
My heroes will always be Sojourner Truth and Frederick Douglass and John Brown and Abraham Lincoln and Rosa Parks. And many, many liberals and progressives who stood up to evil.
Gawd only knows who his are, maybe he’ll share a list!
Granny Godzilla
February 19th, 2013
9:18 am
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Heyward_Jr.
indigo
February 19th, 2013
9:20 am
Thomas Hewyard, Jr. – 8:43
That is precisely the answer I was hoping not to hear.
St Simons - he-ne-ha
February 19th, 2013
9:20 am
Reagan was much more liberal than Obama.
Thanks for the approval of our president, cons.
td
February 19th, 2013
9:21 am
JamVet
February 19th, 2013
9:06 am
“Thomas and those like him with their Klan forgiving backgrounds, will NEVER allow themselves to admit that the very cause of the Civil War that they championed was unaspologetic murder, brutality and torture. Of innocent men, women AND children.”
It is you my friend that does not understand because you are looking at the issue from a 21st century mindset instead of a 18th or 19th century mindset prior to the “Great awakening” movement. If you go back and read history you will find that people did what was in their own best interest to survive. Example: Look at what happened in the Bible when the Israelites came back and conquered Israel. They came to a city and killed every man, woman and child of that city. We would think that was genocide if we were thinking in the terms of today but it was to ensure the survival of a people in those days and was an acceptable practice.
Granny Godzilla
February 19th, 2013
9:21 am
THjr has gone all Hilly Holbrook “decency” on us.
What a hoot.
Care for some pie?
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
February 19th, 2013
9:22 am
Most people disagree…
No they dont.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 19th, 2013
9:23 am
Reagan won 49 states in his re-election. But he wasn’t a very good President… LOL…
Well if we go by just winning elections, then I guess Obama is a very good President. CC is needs to have a talk to CC about why he keeps claiming otherwise.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 19th, 2013
9:26 am
Did I mention SONS OF CONFEDERATE VETERANS! ?
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 19th, 2013
9:29 am
Sequester SHEETZ!
TaxPayer
February 19th, 2013
9:29 am
Poor Heyward. Every time he tries to flee the oppresive USofA, his chains keep pulling him back. If only he had the key.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 19th, 2013
10:54 am
GT:
Do you live here?
Migrate north !!!!