Low-income students used as excuse for vouchers
Time and again, state Rep. Earl Ehrhart, R-Marietta, stressed the importance of adding another $30 million to the state’s private-school scholarship program as a way to help students trapped in failed schools and failed systems.
“It is a quasi-voucher,” he told members of a House subcommittee this week. “I will admit that to anybody. It helps people get out of failed systems.” Critics of the program, he said, need to sit down and talk with the grateful parents and children who have used it to escape bad schools.
“I challenge them to look into the eyes of those parents and children and convince them that they really need to go back to the schools that were failing,” he told his fellow legislators.
There is no question that the tax-subsidized program has helped at least some low-income children move into private schools that their parents could never have afforded. However, there is also no question that the program has been and continues to be abused.
Unlike tuition-tax credits in most other states, Georgia makes no attempt to limit the scholarships to children in failing public schools or to low-income children. There is no means-testing of recipients. As a result, tax-subsidized scholarship money collected in the name of helping students in failing schools is being used to benefit economically comfortable students who have never attended public schools for a single day.
To their credit, some supporters of the scholarship program have taken steps on their own to honor its original intent. Arete Scholars Fund, one of more than 30 Georgia organizations that collect and distribute tax-subsidized scholarship money, gives scholarships only to students who are attending public schools, and it awards those scholarships on a strict, needs-based system. According to data released voluntarily by Arete, the average annual household income of its beneficiaries is $28,000, and 82 percent of those receiving aid are eligible for free or reduced-price lunches.
Georgia Goal, another scholarship organization, pursues similar need-based policies. Like Arete, it focuses its assistance on lower-income households. According to its data — again released voluntarily — its recipients come from households with an average adjusted gross income of $26,601.
Similar policies adopted into state law would go a long way to correcting the program and allowing it to serve many more students in failing schools. At the very least, state scholarship organizations should be required to release information of the type released voluntarily by Arete and GOAL, detailing how much of the $52 million in tax-financed scholarships awarded annually go to lower-income as opposed to middle- and upper-income families.
Unfortunately, we are not allowed to know such things. State law prohibits the collection or distribution of such data by the Georgia Department of Revenue. So while the plight of students in failing schools is used to generate public support for the program, we have no idea how much of the money actually goes to that cause.
It’s important to note that in its latest form, Ehrhart’s bill does contain one substantial reform. For the first time, those who donate to the scholarship program would no longer be allowed to designate who gets that scholarship, which may at least make abuse of the program more difficult. Overall, however, the program would remain the worst-managed, least transparent scholarship program of its kind in the country.
– Jay Bookman
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453 comments Add your comment
Moderate Line
February 18th, 2013
11:57 am
Doggone/GA
February 18th, 2013
11:51 am
““Does this program allow anyone to direct a ’scholarship’
to any school whether they have children or not ?””
No, that does not address MY question. Even if I could donate money to a school and get a refund of THAT money, there’s still the question of the money I pay in taxes…which *I* cannot direct, but someone else can.
+++++
Do you have this right when your money is directed towards public schools. It seems the state has the right to place the same regulation on this money that it does on public schools. It may choose not to do so which I think is wrong.
This is a valid argument for lower taxes but it is not a valid argument for the distribution of tax money. I have the same amount of control over all the tax money I pay.
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
12:00 pm
alex, true, I have no idea who he is or what names he used to post under.
josef
February 18th, 2013
12:00 pm
Mr B
Shalom! Furlough day?
Doggone/GA
February 18th, 2013
12:01 pm
“Unfortuantelly we can only do this through our representatives, some with whom I agree and some I don’t.”
Or, someone can pay their child’s tuition, get a tax credit for that money, and then what is paid to the school comes out of YOUR tax money. So they can direct where YOUR tax money goes, but YOU can’.t
Fred ™
February 18th, 2013
12:01 pm
In the middle
February 18th, 2013
11:33 am
You lie – the new anthem of the left. What is a lie and prove it.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Well I’m not from the left (another of your lies) but I’ll take this. First of I say YOUR lie, not you lie. Fallacy number 2 in your 2 sentence little post. 2 for 2. But let’s take it further back to what I will assume you are referring to, your post at 11:22.
What I SAID was your second lie proves your first lie. Therefore in 2 sentences at 11:33, 15 words, you had 3 lies.
Lie:To lie is to deliver a false statement to another person which the speaking person knows is not the whole truth, intentionally.
You lie-the new anthem of the left.
First off, it isn’t an anthem and you know it. Also you have no data to show it is the major rebuttal OF the left. Further more, you give no definitive description of what constitutes “left.”
You direct the post at me, yet I am not from the left. I am an Independent. Since I am an Independent, that is a lie. See the definition above of lie.
You post virtually nothing that is factual, it is mostly hyperbole, innuendo, rumor, suspicion, and bad opinions.
Matti
February 18th, 2013
12:02 pm
Snotty vs. Non-Snotty
I’m tired of my tax dollars subsidizing the entitlement mentality of snotty rich people who think their kids are too good for public school, and those who aspire to be like them. They are free to pay as much as they want for “private” education, but why do they get to siphon needed funds from the public system to do so? Non-snotty rich people get involved with their local school systems to make them better. Non-snotty rich people are FOR quality public education because they don’t want to live in a country full of stupid people. Snotty rich people feel better about themselves and justify their snottiness when the number of stupid people in their community increases. Enough snot already.
barking frog
February 18th, 2013
12:04 pm
The deeper you go the trickier this seems to get. It seems
a for profit corporation could use up to 75% of its state income
tax liability to fund a private school for its employees and the
employees could use their tax credit for the same school and
solicit friends and family to do the same.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 18th, 2013
12:04 pm
Kleenex anyone?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
February 18th, 2013
12:05 pm
sorry, off topic but an excellent article on the paths of Elizabeth Warren: 1) keep quiet, don’t rock any boats, and go on to bigger things than Senator like Hillary and Obama. 2) Rock the heck out of it and just keep working to make this a better country.
I prefer choice #2.
http://www.salon.com/2013/02/18/beltway_to_elizabeth_warren_shhh/
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 18th, 2013
12:06 pm
Are THE SONS OF CONFEDERATE VETERANS! pro voucher?
Fred ™
February 18th, 2013
12:07 pm
Jay: Under current law, you can not only direct a scholarship to a particular school, you can direct it to a particular student at a particular school, as long as that student is not your dependent.
Could you post your source for that please? I specifically asked not only a tax attorney but also officials at my school about that. As did my friend who runs a multi- million dollar business in 35 States. You see, I would donate for HIS daughter, and he would donate for MINE. Seems pretty straight forward right? Well wrong. Other than you and Doggone saying differently everyone else (people who make this business their life) says it can’t be done. I would love to have info to the contrary because the deposit is due this month and the balance in May. I can use that 20 grand back on my returns.
Moderate Line
February 18th, 2013
12:07 pm
Doggone/GA
February 18th, 2013
12:01 pm
“Unfortuantelly we can only do this through our representatives, some with whom I agree and some I don’t.”
Or, someone can pay their child’s tuition, get a tax credit for that money, and then what is paid to the school comes out of YOUR tax money. So they can direct where YOUR tax money goes, but YOU can’.t
+++++
And someone in south Georgia can have a road built which goes to contractor who makes a profit so someone is directing my tax money there and I have no say.
Again this seems to be a good reason to be against taxes in general. I would bet very little of my tax money goes where I want it to. For example, the war in Iraq.
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
February 18th, 2013
12:08 pm
Has kayaker started drinking earlier (than usual) today?
K71 — here’s my hint to you — you’re not one of “them”. Your measly six figures wouldn’t even buy one boat in Romney’s fleet.
You’re what I like to call a “tween”. You’re between being Lower Upper Class and Upper Middle Class. Your money, though substantial to you, is NOT wha’t s considered as even being “semi-rich” to the rich.
Paris Hilton would ignore you on the streets and sneer at your choice of clothes. In french, you’d be called the nouveau riche.
josef
February 18th, 2013
12:08 pm
K’CHAK
@ 12:06
And what’s this President’s Day in history?
In the middle
February 18th, 2013
12:11 pm
Fred, Was it a lie to say you are on the left when you say you are not. It may have been an assumption but not a lie. Was not meant to intentionaly deceive, but rather to a response that appeared more on the left than the right.
Like I said earlier, I am not very good at emotional discussions, but that is the world we seem to be in these days.
I have been accused of many things. I am not a strong writer and sometimes have difficulty expressing my points of view.
I have only recently started voicing my opinion, and I have been properly executed. I guess the true place for us in the middle is to just be quiet and let the extremists duke it out.
Doggone/GA
February 18th, 2013
12:11 pm
“And someone in south Georgia can have a road built which goes to contractor who makes a profit so someone is directing my tax money there and I have no say”
Is the contractor donating the mone to build that road, then getting a tax credit (refund) on that money? Nope, he is not. I have no problem that I can’t direct where my money is spent. I have a problem that SOMEONE ELSE CAN.
Brosephus™
February 18th, 2013
12:11 pm
Moderate Line
I live in an area with decent schools too. I still have the choice to use public or private school to educate my child. Living in a “good” school district doesn’t remove my choices.
As to taxes, read what Erwin’s Cat posted on the percentages. Most everyone pays between 25% to 30% of their income in taxes. Only an idiot would try to frame the debate as who pays more because we know the top 25% controls most of the income too, but you never, ever hear the taxists mention that in their diatribes, do you?
Moderate Line
February 18th, 2013
12:14 pm
Moderate Line
February 18th, 2013
12:07 pm
Doggone/GA
February 18th, 2013
12:01 pm
“Unfortuantelly we can only do this through our representatives, some with whom I agree and some I don’t.”
Or, someone can pay their child’s tuition, get a tax credit for that money, and then what is paid to the school comes out of YOUR tax money. So they can direct where YOUR tax money goes, but YOU can’.t
++++++++++++
If someone is sending their kid to a private school as long as the deduction is less than what it would cost the state to pay for the kids education why would I care.
Let’s say it cost $10,000 a year to educate a kid at private school.
Here is the problem as I see it.
$10,000 to educate a kid in private school no say
$10,000 to educate a kids in public school with say(I don’t think I really have say)
Now, if you reduce the credit for private school to be less than the cost of public school I am saving money.
josef
February 18th, 2013
12:14 pm
Back in a bit…
In the Middle
As Granddaddy used to say, when you’re getting shot in the ass in both cheeks, it probably means you’re right (correct).
barking frog
February 18th, 2013
12:15 pm
In the middle
I have only recently started voicing my opinion, and I have been properly executed. I guess the true place for us in the middle is to just be quiet and let the extremists duke it out.
……………………………………………………………………………………………
You are on an anonymous opinion blog, say what you want as long as
the blogmeister is o.k. with it….
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 18th, 2013
12:18 pm
And what’s this President’s Day in history?
Protestant reformist, Martin Luther died in 1546 and Ajax soccer team forms in Amsterdam, 1900.
Fred ™
February 18th, 2013
12:18 pm
Matti: Your 12:02 is both simplistic and wrong. Even the best public schools around aren’t as good as the school I send my daughter to. I decided to send her to Woodward at least 10 years before she was born. At the time I lived in Gwinnett in the Brookwood school district. Then, it was one of the best in the State. My next door neighbor, a PhD microbiologist working at the CDC on infectious diseases sent his daughter to the local public school. A guy who worked for me, an $11 an hour scruffy carpenter type sent HIS daughters to Woodward. The kids were the same age. I listened to what the kids were doing and how the schools were. No comparison. Woodward kicked butt.
Fast forward to today: Oak Grove schools and Lakeside High: Again, one of the best districts in the State. Oak Grove is populated by all kinds of rich yuppies, doctors, lawyers, PhD’s ect……. House around the elementary school were going for 1 million before the housing boom (haven’t checked lately). Parent ARE involved. I have a buddy, he’s a neurosurgeon. His daughter goes to Oak Grove. Mine goes to Woodward Academy. There is no comparison as to the level of education provided.
DESPITE the best intentions of the parent of public schools children, they are still restrained by state and local school boards, our school isn’t.
It isn’t about snot, it’s about education. The sacrifices I make for my daughter to go to the best school around is MY choice, and it’s not something I scrape off a hankie when I blow my nose.
Tom( Viet Vet-USAF)
February 18th, 2013
12:19 pm
Matti@12:02 – Say what?? I am assuming you are one of those guys who go around all day saying “pay your fair share” to the high achievers?
That Black Guy
February 18th, 2013
12:19 pm
Bro – Laying blame on the Knee Groes is sooooo last year
Or as I like to call them, The Melinators.
Our catch phrase, “I’ll be Black”.
GT
February 18th, 2013
12:20 pm
td a good percent of those poor that pull their way up do it as crooks. If they get lucky and don’t get caught they make it to the next stage of raising spoil entitled children, if they don’t get caught they go to jail.
There is no coincidence that politicians are one of the major wings of federal prisons. Populous uneducated people, who by habit are crooks, find their way to the ego jobs. The middle class has more honest percentage wise than the rich and rich want to bes. But what would the country be without the guts of a burglar pushing that envelop. How we make sausage is amazing and what we think we are compared to reality is amazing.
I really don’t mind this until it gets into our banks and government. I think a person buys a lemon for a car has recourse but in a bank to large to fail there is no public protection. You have to expect and demand character. Most in this country now days thanks to the decay of the church and family have no clue what character is much less demand it.
Goody Three Shoes
February 18th, 2013
12:21 pm
“As Granddaddy used to say, when you’re getting shot in the ass in both cheeks, it probably means you’re right (correct).”
Or you are so dead wrong that even a blind man can see it.
Fred ™
February 18th, 2013
12:22 pm
I have only recently started voicing my opinion, and I have been properly executed. I guess the true place for us in the middle is to just be quiet and let the extremists duke it out.
When you call out the left and ONLY the left, you aren’t in the middle. When you use far right wing FOXBOT terms and phrases, you aren’t in the middle. Sorry, that’s just how it is.
JamVet
February 18th, 2013
12:23 pm
I have only recently started voicing my opinion…
I speak for no one but myself and your voice is welcome here.
This country profits when all voices are allowed…
Flashback to the Southern School Desegregation in the 1950’s
February 18th, 2013
12:23 pm
The rhetoric beginning at 18:44 is the same rhetoric that the Repubs that come on this blog use today. The more things change, the more they remain the same in Dixie….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9ACS4PgDFA
getalife
February 18th, 2013
12:23 pm
“romney in a landslide” fox news.
Fred ™
February 18th, 2013
12:24 pm
TBG: Our catch phrase, “I’ll be Black”.
LOL that was so classic I just KNEW there had to be a clip or soundbite parody of that on youtube.
Today’s not my day. I was wrong. That makes TWICE in the same day. Damn, i’ve gone YEARS without being wrong and here today in less than an hour I’ve mucked it up twice. Guess I’ll just go do a Mindy McCready………
In the middle
February 18th, 2013
12:25 pm
The thing is, I really care a great deal about the quality of the education we provide. Getting hung up on who pays what does not get to the issue. If money was really the answer we wouldn’t need to worry about private schools. The problem is how the money is being used. We are not getting the results we pay for. Blaming the failures on tax credits is not the answer. A more lively discussion on improving the education with the tools we have today would be more fun and possibly more beneficial.
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
February 18th, 2013
12:25 pm
ITM – Fred is o.k. — he is passionate because he cares; not because he’s trying to be snarky.
Please keep posting — in every discussion we need 3 types of people to take part:
The Fred’s of the world who are passionate about what they believe in.
People like YOU who are the voice of calm
And people who are ANALYTICAL who can divide the emotion and practicality from the facts and figures.
Brosephus™
February 18th, 2013
12:26 pm
TBG
In the middle
February 18th, 2013
12:27 pm
What is a FOXBOT.
barking frog
February 18th, 2013
12:27 pm
DDR 12:25
…..and frogs.
Tom( Viet Vet-USAF)
February 18th, 2013
12:27 pm
Fred@12:18 – Good post, I understand completely. I also live in the Brookwood district, I sent my son to GAC(private christian school) for two years. That helped him do well at the public colleges he attended. Graduated with honors and now teaches AP courses at his local HS and coaches sports. It was well worth the expense!
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
February 18th, 2013
12:27 pm
Snotty rich people feel better about themselves and justify their snottiness when the number of stupid people in their community increases. Enough snot already.
Well, you got to admit Matti says what she thinks. I couldn’t of said it better myself. I think I found a redneck girl.
Fred ™
February 18th, 2013
12:27 pm
Hi DDR: I’m sick which makes me grumpy. I probably ought not post any more today………….. My family has already locked me in my cave and are feeding me only whatever they can shove through the crack under the door………..
godless heathen - owner of many things he does not need
February 18th, 2013
12:29 pm
I was wrong.
OMFG! Someone actually admitted it on the Internet. Fred, you are my hero for the day.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 18th, 2013
12:30 pm
Blaming the failures on tax credits is not the answer
No one is blaming the “failures” on tax credits. That said, if you reduce funding for public schools and then divert millions to private schools for those who can afford to pay for their private schools and at the same time tie the hands of those who could monitor the use of the diverted money to verify that it is spend well, that is a different type of failure than the failure to provide a “good education”.
godless heathen - owner of many things he does not need
February 18th, 2013
12:35 pm
There IS no choice involved if the world in which you live provides no examples of achievement other than in the realm of sports or entertainment. There IS no choice if no one in your community has experienced success.
There are none so blind as those that refuse to see.
I wonder if those kids standing on the corner seeing me and thousands of others on our way home from work every day, don’t know that we have jobs because we stayed in school. How could they not know this?
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
February 18th, 2013
12:35 pm
Of course frogs too!
Fred — I can’t believe that you admitted that you were WRONG!!!
You’ve just broken Blog Rule #12257 — You are now elevated to Blog God. Please wear the title well. We’ll be watching…………
Jefferson
February 18th, 2013
12:36 pm
The state cannot affort this wellfare, simply too many projects are not getting done do to lack of revenue. State income taxes need revisions.
Fred ™
February 18th, 2013
12:38 pm
Oh and BTW. I am LONG on the record, both here and at Maureens blog for being AGAINST vouchers and that stupid Charter School amendment money grab. I GLADLY pay my school taxes as I spend money to send my child to private school.
Vouchers are nothing more than moochers stealing money away from other taxpayers to pay for THEIR private school because they are unwilling to make the sacrifice to do it themselves.
Stealing even more money from public schools is not going to solve the problems, it’s going to make them worse. Anyone with two brain cells knows that.
Latrina
February 18th, 2013
12:40 pm
I believe a strong case can be made for subsidizing education excellence for students at both ends of the economic hierarchy.
The disadvantaged kids get a potentially life changing leg up that they won’t get in government schools. The presence of more affluent kids, who are likely to be from educated and stable families, brings balance and helps prevent the private school from morphing into what the poor kids are trying to escape from.
Moderate Line
February 18th, 2013
12:42 pm
Brosephus™
February 18th, 2013
12:11 pm
Moderate Line
I live in an area with decent schools too. I still have the choice to use public or private school to educate my child. Living in a “good” school district doesn’t remove my choices.
As to taxes, read what Erwin’s Cat posted on the percentages. Most everyone pays between 25% to 30% of their income in taxes. Only an idiot would try to frame the debate as who pays more because we know the top 25% controls most of the income too, but you never, ever hear the taxists mention that in their diatribes, do you?
++++
Unfortunately, he is not telling the WHOLE STORY as you say.
As far as people mention who controls the money no they never mention it. But you also failed to mention that 20% of the people pay 52% of the taxes and you failed to recognized that Erwin was implying that the taxes paid as a percentage was fairly even when they are not.
Most everyone does not pay 25 to 30% but that is the upper half of tax payers. The bottom half is NOT paying 25% to 30%. It is funny how you accepted his data with no rebuttal but immediately rejected the other.
The bottom 20% 16.2%
The next 20% pay 20.7%
The next 20% pay 25.1%
The next 20% pay 28.5%
The next 10% pay 30.0%
The next 5% pay 31.1%
The next 4% pay 31.3%
Top 1% pay 30.0%
Only an idiot would try to frame the debate as who pays more because we know the top 25% controls most of the income too, but you never, ever hear the taxists mention that in their diatribes, do you?
I think if one side is trying to make an argument that the beneficiary of a tax credit is the wealthy then it legitimate to see who is paying the taxes. If everyone with a child can take a advantage of the program then the people who are most likely to benefit as far as taxes go is the poor since taxes paid are fairly uneven although not as uneven as the right would lead us to believe
If you want to look at a tax deduction that benefits the rich look at home mortgages. I think you would have a better case.
Stevie Ray
February 18th, 2013
12:43 pm
Isn’t the answer always simply to tax the rich more? That way we can invest more dough without any change in outcomes..
That top 20% are getting away with murder!
Fred ™
February 18th, 2013
12:45 pm
This whole process the Republicans in our State have started of stealing the money from local public schools to give to whoever pays them off just sickens me. First they hoodwinked folks with lies into voting for the so called “Charter School Amendment” and now they are trying to steal what little is left with this failed voucher thing. I quit reading Maureens blog last night because she was discussing it, and I passed this one by 3 times earlier today. I guess I should have made it 4. It infuriates me to no end. Very little said here regularly angers me, despite what some folks think, but this issue sure as hell does.
In the end, a society is judged by history for the way it treats it’s weakest members, the children, and the elderly. Look at what we are doing to ours. But even more selfishly, how stupid are we to doom ourselves to future generations of dummies because we won’t educate them?
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
February 18th, 2013
12:45 pm
Dear Blog God – Blog Gods do not get sick………………………only the peons do. Please remember this in the future.
Signed,
‘
A loyal peon.
skipper
February 18th, 2013
12:46 pm
Hard point, but here it goes. Forgetting race, etc. there is not a person in his/her right mind who would move to Atlanta, open a business etc., and put their kids in an inner-city school. This blog (or any other) can go back and forth, debate the issues, etc. but ten years from now (cuss me all you want) this cluster that is so wrongly deemed an education system will be in the same, or worse, shape than it is now. I know it is the chicken or the egg syndrome. Poverty is solved by education…..but it is as much the CULTURE as anything. You have less than competent people on the board. Political correctness and not calling out folks who are to dumb to be on a school board is not a way for education to advance. Libs, conservatives, independents, etc. all know it. Lets see where the system is in a few years. Meanwhile, yeah, folks are gonna do what they can.
Matti
February 18th, 2013
12:49 pm
Fred,
I’m glad to know you are concerned with the quality of education your offspring receive. However, I challenge your assertion that Woodward is “better” than any public school. I have close friends who sent their son to Woodward, and frankly, he has not done as well as many that I know from my own neighborhood public high school. (Frankly, he’s not that bright, and life in the real, unprivileged world is proving more challenging than it should be.) The list of Woodward graduates in the program did not boast a higher ivy-league acceptance rate than the public schools in my area.
MY position is that ALL the schools should be excellent, and the reason they’re not is that we, as a society, are just too comfortable with the notion that “some people matter, and some people don’t.” Our collective willingness to simply write off large groups of children as ineducable, and brush off the fact that failing schools lack the resources they need to succeed — though the specifics of those resources may vary widely — says that we, as a society, simply do not care. Far too many of our children fail to succeed, and *I* think we can and should do better.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 18th, 2013
12:49 pm
Political correctness and…
Mid 90s Bill Maher called and said he wants his phrase back.
Stevie Ray
February 18th, 2013
12:50 pm
Here’s what I’m finding on tax contributors:
1980: Top 10% paid 49% of taxes
Bottom 90% paid 51% of taxes
2008: Top 10% paid 70% of taxes
bottom 90% paid 30% of taxes.
Anecdotally:
1965: Defense Spending/GDP 7.4%
Entitlemants/GDP 2.5$
2010: Defense Spending/GDP 5%
Entitlements/GDP 10%
Doggone/GA
February 18th, 2013
12:53 pm
“2008: Top 10% paid 70% of taxes
bottom 90% paid 30% of taxes”
Now tell us how much of the country’s wealth each set controls. Not has, CONTROLS.
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
February 18th, 2013
12:53 pm
Fred – I voted against the Charter School Ammendment too. It was noted, some time ago, that the majority of people who voted FOR the ammendment didn’t truly understand what they were voting for.
the language of the amm. was so bogged down in legalese that the average “Joe” couldn’t understand it…it was DELIBERATELY done this way so to gain that very result.
There need to be a substantial change to the way our legislature is allowed to put an ammendment on the ballot.
It should be in plain english easily understood by everyone.
AND not one sentence should contain a “Whetherto, Aforementioned, In accordance with, or By common knowledge”.
It should just say: “Ya’ll wanna take the choice of who determines where a Charter school is gonna be? If ya’ll take it out of the school board’shands then public money from taxes will go straight to the charter schools without the local school board’s consent” Yes or No ya’ll.
skipper
February 18th, 2013
12:54 pm
Matti,
Yhats “in your area”…..bet it was not one of the “sho-nuff” inner city cesspools………there are some decent schools on the fringes. (Like the one or one’s I’m sure Jay’s kids went to.)
Moderate Line
February 18th, 2013
12:54 pm
Stevie Ray
February 18th, 2013
12:50 pm
Good Data!
Stevie Ray
February 18th, 2013
12:54 pm
MATTI
“MY position is that ALL the schools should be excellent, and the reason they’re not is that we, as a society, are just too comfortable with the notion that “some people matter, and some people don’t”
How exactly do you define “excellent”? I’m not sure the notion that some people matter and some don’t is solid in application here. The most significant determinates of success are not money spent necessarily, its parent involvement. There are demographics relative to transient students and those otherwise not from a tradition of education. In other words, if we gave kids at schools you would call problematic a Woodward education, I doubt the outcomes would change.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 18th, 2013
12:55 pm
Stevie, you might want to check those results with the growing disparity in incomes, wealth and other factors to show their meaning in context. You won’t like the results because, as I am sure you are aware if you have done “research”, that the changes are the result of variety of nuanced factors. Now do show that you can do more than regurgitate partisan nonsense as some sort of intelligent commentary by, just my suggestion, having intelligent commentary.
Regnad Kcin
February 18th, 2013
12:56 pm
“I wonder if those kids standing on the corner seeing me and thousands of others on our way home from work every day, don’t know that we have jobs because we stayed in school. How could they not know this?”
+++++++++++++++++++
You may not understand this, but I have to try…
It’s easy, when your life is full of obstacles, to say to yourself, “I wish I could have a job like that guy, but he doesn’t face the obstacles I do.” And that thought may well be true.
It’s difficult for this hypothetical person to identify with YOUR success. Does he drive a car like yours? Does he drive a car at all? “If only I had a car like that guy…”
However, if you are surrounded by people in your social group that succeed, that takes away your objections, and gives you the feeling, “if they can do it, so can I!”
Do you now see why YOU may not fill the role of “inspiring example?”
Vet
February 18th, 2013
12:56 pm
why worry about anything…just go play golf with Tiger and blame others for everything!
Stevie Ray
February 18th, 2013
12:58 pm
Doggone/GA
February 18th, 2013
12:53 pm
I think if they were to tax wealth, you point is valid. That is not the case.
I understand that the 5% pays 58% of tax burden but earns about 31% of nations adjusted gross income.
n
February 18th, 2013
12:59 pm
Shar 7:58–I agree completely.
Anything less constitutes fraud on the public.
Which has become SOP with many/most of the state leadership.
Ehrhart thinks we are idiots.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 18th, 2013
1:01 pm
why worry about anything…just go play golf with Tiger and blame others for everything!
George Bush says “
What?Now, watch this drive.Stevie Ray
February 18th, 2013
1:02 pm
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 18th, 2013
12:55 pm
First it is not partisan data unless you feel the OMB or IRS.
Secon, I’m not taking a partisan position on this data. It just is what it is…draw your own conclusions. The one that I draw remains the same, namely; the trend of tax burdens will soon reach a point where new revenue go to which is the top 5% or so, will reach diminishing returns..
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 18th, 2013
1:02 pm
So now Stevie is moving away from “taxes” and just going with “income taxes”. What exactly is “tax burden”?
GIGO.
alex
February 18th, 2013
1:03 pm
@ Kam, include paradigm shift and “wait for it”,add “word”….
Mr Right
February 18th, 2013
1:04 pm
Coming soon, another GOP bashing from Jay, I can smell it!
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 18th, 2013
1:04 pm
Stevie, the information does not make it partisan, your disingenuous regurgitation without context and drawing wild conclusions is what is partisan and uninformed.
Doggone/GA
February 18th, 2013
1:06 pm
“I think if they were to tax wealth, you point is valid. That is not the case”
I said CONTROLS, not HAS. Those at the top CONTROL what those below them make. If they are paying a greater share of the taxes, it’s because they have prevented those below them from making enough to contribute more.
The classic description of a “trickle up” economny. Those what has, gets. Those what don’t has, don’t get.
Matti
February 18th, 2013
1:06 pm
Stevie Ray: “The most significant determinates of success are not money spent necessarily, its parent involvement. ….. if we gave kids at schools you would call problematic a Woodward education, I doubt the outcomes would change.”
Exactly. Independent of neighborhood or income, children whose parents are dedicated to their academic success do better than children whose parents do not or cannot invest the necessary give-a-flip. My point is that, instead of saying, “Gee, there’s nothing we can do about it,” that we should empower our public education systems to do more for those children whose parents, for whatever reason, do less. This means letting go of the traditional definitions of what a public school does because we realize it is simply NOT working for too many children. The challenge then becomes to finally address the real issues and find solutions that work.
Easy? No. Worth it? When the United States starts inventing and producing stuff the rest of the world wants again, and our citizens can compete in the global market, then I think it will be. I guess that’s just my opinion/wishful thinking.
Granny Godzilla
February 18th, 2013
1:06 pm
Mr Right
February 18th, 2013
1:04 pm
Coming soon, another GOP bashing from Jay, I can smell it!
.
.
.
.
I for one wish the GOP could do something that we could parise them for.
Don’t you?
yuzeyurbrane
February 18th, 2013
1:06 pm
Ehrhart also proposes to change the already huge loophole that allows scholarships to be spent on those who have been admitted to public school but not attended. The reform proposed? To not even require an application or registration in public school—specifically to make scholarship available to anyone who could have registered in public school! Folks, if you haven’t figured it out yet, that is EVERYBODY since every child is eligible for public school. Does he think the public is stupid? How arrogant and condescending. This would turn his quasi-voucher into a voucher until $80 million is expended. By the way, what are the statistics on the SOS in which Ehrhart is a leader?
Fred ™
February 18th, 2013
1:06 pm
Matti: Woodward Academy boast a ONE HUNDRED PERCENT rate of graduates going to college. Does your local High School?
My daughter in the first 9 weeks of second grade did a research project in powerpoint, by herself. Did your kids? I could go on but I won’t.
Oh yeah, and her over privileged ass rides to school in my beat to hell ‘98 Dodge Ram. Her over privileged ass had a “staycation” last year because we didn’t have the cash to go anywhere else.
Your ridiculous assumption that anyone who goes to private school is not only rich and over privilege but somehow snotty pisses me off. I’ll bet YOU have newer cars than I do. I’ll bet YOU go on more vacations than I do. I’ll bet the list of things thta YOU do that we don’t is endless.
It’s CHOICES Matti, not privilege. As to your friend’s son/ I’m sorry he wasn’t smart enough to stay at Woodward. That is another one of the advantages of the school, unlike in public school, they don’t have to teach down to the dumbest. You see, it takes more than money to get in.
You can “challenge” the FACT that Woodward is better than public schools all you want, I don’t give a fat rats ass, it still won’t make your assumption true. You can challenge the “assertion” of gravity too, but you jump your butt off the tallest roadway of spaghetti junction and I guarantee that you will hit and make a splat below.
Life isn’t an American Idol vote on everything Matti. You need to separate facts from opinions. And quite frankly? Your OPINIONS on Woodward Academy are dead ass wrong. There is a good mix of us “poor folks” to go along with the super rich. Yeah, Arthur Blanks grand son goes there, but so does the son of the grounds keeper.
DownInAlbany
February 18th, 2013
1:07 pm
This is not a commentary on GOAL, but, I pulled my kid out of the local public school after the first semester, his 9th grade year. He probably would have finished as the valedictorian. He was taking all honors classes. Had 100 averages in all and literally never brought home a book. He simply was not being challenged. For the first 9 weeks at the private school, it kicked his butt! He ended up finishing 5th in his graduating class. He’s now a sophmore at UGA carrying a 4.0. He has thanked me on more than one occasion for sending him to the private school. He cannot imagine that he would have been equally prepared if he had stayed in public. I understand that some would argue that students such as my kid are destined to do well wherever they are. I am afraid that during debates such as the one taking place on this blog, the one thing that is overlooked is that there truly are two “Georgia’s”…metro Atlanta and then the rest of the State.
skipper
February 18th, 2013
1:07 pm
Regnad,
Good thought, but unless (using your criteria) all of the north plans on shipping kids to the inner-city, it would not ever happen. That is basically what you are saying…..just using a more p.c. choice of words……..
RB from Gwinnett
February 18th, 2013
1:09 pm
Gas prices up $.17 in a week and $.41 in a month and not a word of whining from the same liberals who vilified W for it under his watch. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not surprised by that with ya’ll being liberals and all, but I just thought I’d point out what hypocrits you are.
And how about all those liberals rallying in support of that Dorner character? What’s up with that, libs? Anybody on board with that sicko crowd?
Stevie Ray
February 18th, 2013
1:09 pm
KEEP
Here is a thoughtful read on the causes of inequality.
http://www.nber.org/digest/dec08/w13982.html
Also, Joseph Stiglitz wrote a book called The Cost of Income Inequality which you may check out.
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/american-dream-myth-joseph-stiglitz-price-inequality-124338674.html
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 18th, 2013
1:10 pm
Granny, well its only fair that Jay not bash the GOP (”bashing” means not swallowing the GOP arguments as gospel). I mean look how rational and fair the GOP was to the leaked immigration plans of the WH or to the Hagel nomination. You won’t find anyone claiming that the GOP will oppose anything Obama proposes or that the GOP opposes Hagel because he would not support the nonsense and lies of the GOP about Bush’s war desires.
Oh wait
Stevie Ray
February 18th, 2013
1:13 pm
Matti
February 18th, 2013
1:06 pm
The government can in no way, shape or form replace the influence of a parent on a childs scholastic success.
No amount of money can help a single parent working 2 jobs just to live paycheck to paycheck do more than they can do or what tradition the come from..
Fred ™
February 18th, 2013
1:13 pm
Backwards Nick @ 12:56: What an awesome post. I couldn’t think of a nice way to say what you did so I didn’t respond, but you freaking nailed it.
It’s EASY to say, “You can overcome anything.” It’s harder to live when all around you is negativity and folks beating you down and beating down your dream. Yeah a few make it out, but only a few few. I would suggest that more kids born to privilege lower themselves than those born to poverty raise themselves.
That is an OPINION based on no facts whatsoever, but I’m sure it could be proved.
Anyway, I’m just getting grumpier so I’m gonna split. Maybe there is a Touched By an Angel marathon on that I can watch to make me nice……….
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 18th, 2013
1:14 pm
Stevie, Dr. Suess wrote a Cat in the Hat but that does not mean that he comprehended everything about cats or that he was right about cats without hats.
“I do not like green eggs and ham”. Its in another book but that does not mean it supports your partisan nonsense.
Erwin's cat
February 18th, 2013
1:15 pm
Oh…and happy engineers week..to my fellow geeks
Corbin Sharpe. I think, therefore I am...I think.
February 18th, 2013
1:16 pm
An open letter to all y’all…
——————————-
Subject: Mr. President, it’s well past time to end the war in Afghanistan.
Dear Friend,
We invaded Afghanistan almost 12 years ago to pursue the terrorists behind the September 11 attacks, and we succeeded in that objective long ago.
It’s been almost two years since Osama bin Laden was killed deep within the borders of Pakistan during a covert operation carried out by a few dozen elite soldiers.
And during his recent State of the Union address, President Obama said Al Qaeda is a “shadow of its former self,” continuing:
“Different Al Qaeda affiliates and extremist groups have emerged … The threat these groups pose is evolving. But to meet this threat, we don’t need to send tens of thousands of our sons and daughters abroad, or occupy other nations.”
Yet the large-scale, military occupation of Afghanistan continues at a tremendous human and monetary cost.
So I just signed a petition telling President Obama that it’s well past time to end the war in Afghanistan.
You should sign the letter, too. It’s easy to do so. Just click on this link:
http://act.credoaction.com/campaign/obama_afghanistan_2013/?r_by=54931-2457263-3Y3Injx&rc=paste1
Stevie Ray
February 18th, 2013
1:17 pm
Fred ™
February 18th, 2013
1:06 pm
Agreed however, despite the amazing effort you put toward you kid, a significant majority financially can’t swing it no matter what…
Too bad everyone didn’t apply your practices to their kids…at least the ones who can…
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 18th, 2013
1:17 pm
Can I get one of them $25 papa john pizzas with that gas rant, pizza boy?
DownInAlbany
February 18th, 2013
1:18 pm
Fred ™
February 18th, 2013
1:06 pm
Fred, you and I rarely see eye-to-eye, but, I overwhelmingly agree with your comments. My wife and I sacrificed to send our kids to private schools. We made the choice to invest in their future. My kids drive the oldest vehicles in the parking lot and we live on the other side of the tracks compared to most kids there, but, it’s the greatest decision we’ve made regarding our kids!
Stevie Ray
February 18th, 2013
1:20 pm
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 18th, 2013
1:14 pm
Once again you go once and out. If you can please point out how I use this data in partisan fashion and what legitimate differences do you find when researching this data.
I find that, after much experience, all of your posts quickly get reduced to personal attacks or other irrelevant submission.
All you have put forth is idiotic DEM soundbites…can really expect much more from you unfortunately.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 18th, 2013
1:21 pm
I find that, after much experience, all of your posts quickly get reduced to personal attacks or other irrelevant submission.
All you have put forth is idiotic DEM soundbites…can really expect much more from you unfortunately
Irony!
guy
February 18th, 2013
1:21 pm
So proud of chimpama throwing our tax money on a golf lesson and Amazon woman going to Colorado on our dime also.That’s ok though if they do it.Great leadership!
Corbin Sharpe. I think, therefore I am...I think.
February 18th, 2013
1:25 pm
Guy,
You’re a dork.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 18th, 2013
1:26 pm
So proud of chimpama…
Wow.
There’s your sign
Jefferson
February 18th, 2013
1:27 pm
Private schools should stand on their own feet and not have tax monies direct toward them, unless they want to follow rules they might not like.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 18th, 2013
1:27 pm
Jerry Springer reference in 3…2…1….
Jefferson
February 18th, 2013
1:27 pm
guy is full and a joke, time for the diaper change.
williebkind
February 18th, 2013
1:28 pm
Why cant they just let school be voluntary?
Erwin's cat
February 18th, 2013
1:28 pm
Guy,
You’re a dork.
that’s an insult to dorks everywhere
Matti
February 18th, 2013
1:29 pm
Fred,
I don’t know what you’re flipping problem is today, but I am not the cause of it.
My assertion is that our public schools should be better and should not be deprived of resources. If you don’t like it, you can stick it up your cranky, snotty, beat up tailpipe. I’m done with you.
комиссар (Occupation)
February 18th, 2013
1:29 pm
..life prospects of an American are more dependent on the income and education of his parents than in almost any other advanced country for which there is data.
Perhaps a hundred years ago, America might have rightly claimed to have been the land of opportunity, or at least a land where there was more opportunity than elsewhere. But not for at least a quarter of a century. Horatio Alger-style rags-to-riches stories were not a deliberate hoax, but given how they’ve lulled us into a sense of complacency, they might as well have been.
It’s not that social mobility is impossible, but that the upwardly mobile American is becoming a statistical oddity. According to research from the Brookings Institution, only 58 percent of Americans born into the bottom fifth of income earners move out of that category, and just 6 percent born into the bottom fifth move into the top. Economic mobility in the United States is lower than in most of Europe and lower than in all of Scandinavia.
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/16/equal-opportunity-our-national-myth/?hp