The world as Marco Rubio prefers to see it
U.S. Sen. Marco Rubio may have had an awkward, amateurish moment in his rebuttal to the State of the Union last night — grace under pressure it was not — but it’s nothing that will do permanent damage to his career. The national spotlight is a difficult place, and you learn how to handle it by living in it. Sarah Palin, for example, never got the benefit of the learning curve that Rubio is now experiencing, and the lack of preparation ended her career.
With that in mind, let’s set aside talk of Rubio’s delivery and take a serious look at the message itself. (Transcript available here.) And let’s start with the fact that in most respects, his speech was a standard, rote recitation of Republican ideology, including a familiar condemnation of President Obama as an enemy of capitalism:
“Presidents in both parties – from John F. Kennedy to Ronald Reagan – have known that our free enterprise economy is the source of our middle class prosperity. But President Obama? He believes it’s the cause of our problems.”
“… the idea that more taxes and more government spending is the best way to help hardworking middle class taxpayers – that’s an old idea that’s failed every time it’s been tried. More government isn’t going to help you get ahead. It’s going to hold you back.”
That is an easily disprovable assertion. Medicare is not a failure; Social Security is not a failure; the GI Bill was not a failure; Head Start is not a failure; unemployment insurance is not a failure. The student loan and Pell Grant programs are not failures. Neither is Medicaid, which among other things insures two-thirds of Americans receiving long-term nursing home care in this country.
These and other programs — almost all of them opposed by Republicans since their inception — have been of immense service to “hardworking middle-class taxpayers” and other Americans. In fact, Rubio and his family have themselves benefited greatly from those programs. As he acknowledged later in his speech, his mother and late father have relied heavily on Medicare to deal with their declining health. Rubio attended a state-financed university, including a community college and the University of Florida, and financed that college education through federal loans and the Pell Grant program.
It is not an exaggeration to say that those taxpayer-funded programs — dismissed by Rubio as failures in helping the middle class — have made his entire life and career possible. College, for example, would have been much more difficult. And without Medicare and Social Security footing the bill, the cost of caring for his aging parents would have had to be paid from his own pocket, significantly shrinking his own economic and career options.
However, when Rubio recounts his personal history, such inconvenient facts seem to melt away. As he said in his speech last night:
“My parents immigrated here in pursuit of the opportunity to improve their life and give their children the chance at an even better one. They made it to the middle class, my dad working as a bartender and my mother as a cashier and a maid. I didn’t inherit any money from them. But I inherited something far better – the real opportunity to accomplish my dreams. This opportunity – to make it to the middle class or beyond no matter where you start out in life – it isn’t bestowed on us from Washington.”
It is a theme that he returned to in his closing, in which he talked of the dreams that parents of today have for their newborn children, just as his parents had for him:
“For many of these parents, life has not gone the way they had planned. Maybe they were born into circumstances they’ve found difficult to escape. Maybe they’ve made some mistakes along the way. Maybe they’re young mothers, all alone, the father of their child long gone.
But tonight, when they look into the eyes of their child for the first time, their lives will change forever. Because in those eyes, they will see what my parents saw in me, and what your parents saw in you. They will see all the hopes and dreams they once had for themselves. This dream – of a better life for their children – it’s the hope of parents everywhere. Politicians here and throughout the world have long promised that more government can make those dreams come true.
But we Americans have always known better. From our earliest days, we embraced economic liberty instead. And because we did, America remains one of the few places on earth where dreams like these even have a chance.”
It is moving stuff, but again, it is romanticized to the point of caricature. These parents “born into circumstances they’ve found difficult to escape” would no doubt welcome high-quality pre-K programs of the sort advocated Tuesday night by Obama, because without it their children would have a much tougher time excelling in school. The earned-income tax credit for working families having a hard time making ends meet would be invaluable to them. Parents working as bartenders and cashiers are highly unlikely to have employer-provided health insurance, so Medicaid would be essential if their children should become ill.
There’s one more very important factor to consider. Rubio’s parents came to this country in 1956, and over the next quarter century, as they tried to establish an economic foothold here, they did so in an era when economic prosperity was more broadly shared than it is today.
Here’s what income inequality looked like in America from 1956 to 1981:
Here’s what it has done since:
Here’s what employees’ share of the gross domestic product did from 1956 to 1981:
Here’s what it has done since:
Those and other profound, structural changes in the American economy have made it much more difficult for modern versions of Mario and Oria Rubio to look into their children’s eyes and dream of a better life for them. Yet, as their son explained to the American people Tuesday night, the Republican Party believes that government should take no account of those changed conditions. “More government isn’t going to help you get ahead,” as he told us. “It’s going to hold you back.”
In fact, we are told, the answer must be to shrink those government programs that — Rubio’s denials aside — have helped himself and countless millions more Americans achieve the dreams of their fathers and mothers. The American people are going to have a hard time swallowing that.
– Jay Bookman
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856 comments Add your comment
Steve
February 13th, 2013
1:04 pm
And the same trolls who post racist nonsense and all out lies will continue to ignore the data and vote against their best interests.
Fly-On-The-Wall
February 13th, 2013
1:04 pm
Itchy, but what you don’t state is the reasons why those items ‘massively increased’ under this President. No mention of the failed policies of the previous President and all of the debt that came from him.
Steve
February 13th, 2013
1:06 pm
How many people in here realize that countries with ‘more government’ than us that balance capitalism with socialism, are doing BETTER than us and people live longer and are HAPPIER, and more prosperous?
Seriously folks, please join the rest of us in the 21st century. We outnumber you now.
Itchy Finger
February 13th, 2013
1:07 pm
I just don’t understand how obama can say what he proposes won’t increase the debt…. I wonder if libs simply ignore facts or maybe perhaps they are so far entrenched in the obama fairy tale that they can’t focus on intellectual thought?
liberal hack
February 13th, 2013
1:07 pm
I have to say that I agreed w/ 1 1/2 points from the President’s speech last night.
Anyone can get a girl pregnant, it takes a man to raise it. AGREED wholeheartedly, maybe women wouldn’t feel pressured to abort a living child if men stepped up and raised that child with her.
I also agree that maybe we shouldn’t give subsidies to oil and gas companies, but we shouldn’t subsidize wind, solar, farts, or any other “green energy” either!
moonbat betty
February 13th, 2013
1:08 pm
“Since the cons refuse to listen to our President, I refuse to listen to the gop.”
It’s hard to listen to a broken record for 4 years.
Vet
February 13th, 2013
1:08 pm
Rubio is a fine man so why attack him because he has different views than Obama! Do we really want a one party system in America? People need to come together for the common good and stop blaming the other party. Two wrongs never make a right!
Living With Open Eyes
February 13th, 2013
1:09 pm
It is not the USA’s responsibility to take care of the world. It is the resposibility of the USA to take care of its citizens.If the USA trades almost exclusively within its own borders all the “dumb” people will be able to do the “dumb”jobs we pay foreigners overseas to do – like make shoes and clothing, household goods etc.”Dumb” people have a right to earn a living too.
stands for decibels
February 13th, 2013
1:09 pm
Ok, so I had a look at the prepared text:
There are valid reasons to be concerned about the President’s plan to grow our government. But any time anyone opposes the President’s agenda, he and his allies usually respond by falsely attacking their motives.
When we point out that no matter how many job-killing laws we pass, our government can’t control the weather – he accuses us of wanting dirty water and dirty air.
When we suggest we strengthen our safety net programs by giving states more flexibility to manage them – he accuses us of wanting to leave the elderly and disabled to fend for themselves.
And tonight, he even criticized us for refusing to raise taxes to delay military cuts – cuts that were his idea in the first place. But his favorite attack of all is that those who don’t agree with him – they only care about rich people.
What a friggin’ WATB.
JamVet
February 13th, 2013
1:10 pm
Staggering losses in three out of the past four national elections confirm that the American Fascist Party is spiraling in. Further, the chances of them getting crushed in three out of the next four are also very high. And growing weekly.
Ask them why they keep getting their teeth kicked in in national elections and they will tell you.
1) The American people are stupid. Everybody that is except them and their GOP pals.
2) The American people are lazy mooches who do not want good jobs. Everybody that is except them and their GOP pals.
3) The American people are “dependent upon government.” (Ask them, I have no idea what this one even means) Everybody that is except them and their GOP pals.
4) Uncle Sam is too big for his britches and needs to be drowned in a bathtub.
Fortunately as they champion themselves as the party of no personal responsibility (LOL!) they do not have to admit that they are their worst problem. That the reason they are getting annihilated so regularly anymore has NOTHING to do with them as people or their policies.
And I encourage them to NOT change one single thing in this new Republican model of success…
Joe Hussein Mama
February 13th, 2013
1:11 pm
jhunt — “That is the most ignorant statement you have made yet.”
Oh, get over yourself.
If you dislike SS, then simply don’t file to claim it. And if you have anything else to say to that, do us both a favor and keep it to yourself, because I’m sick of your whining and complaining.
“Of course I am going to claim it since I have been forced, and yes I mean forced to participate in it.”
Sucks to be you.
“Oh, and yes, I do have multiple IRA’s.”
Good. Then pipe down about SS and go manage your retirement funds like an adult.
“I have no grandiose delusions on the survival or value of our entitlement programs.”
Just FYI, SS is *insurance.* It’s even in the name.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OASDI
Butch Cassidy (I)
February 13th, 2013
1:12 pm
Liberal Nightmare – “Your party and ideology exists because of an ever growing entitlist society and an ethic group whose fear causes them vote 90% to one party.”
I know, all those Republicans who feel entitled to all this country has to offer but never want to pony up to pay the bill. As to all the old white guys always voting GOP, I understand the party is trying to change. Buck up little camper.
Steve
February 13th, 2013
1:12 pm
Yeah, Rubio is a “fine man” …easy on the eyes, but delusional:
“Rubio: George W. Bush ‘did a fantastic job as president’
By David Edwards
Sunday, April 22, 2012 13:16 EDT
“I haven’t gone through the comparison,” Rubio told CNN’s Candy Crowley. “I think that presidents serve in different times with different challenges. And so I think that George W. Bush, in my opinion, did a fantastic job as president over eight years, facing a set of circumstances during those eight years that are different from the circumstances that a President Romney would face.””
getalife
February 13th, 2013
1:14 pm
He cleaned up the we disasters and now he will restore the American dream.
If you work hard, you can make a decent living for your family.
God bless President Obama.
Butch Cassidy (I)
February 13th, 2013
1:14 pm
Itchy Finger – “Sure looks like most people didn’t agree with hardly any of obama’s tripe…. 12.9 million people..”
12.9 million out of a country of over 300 million? That translates into “most people” for you?
JamVet
February 13th, 2013
1:14 pm
And so I think that George W. Bush, in my opinion, did a fantastic job as president over eight years…
Three words – political death sentence.
Stevie Ray
February 13th, 2013
1:15 pm
DebbieDoRight – A Do Right Woman
February 13th, 2013
1:04 pm
Any one who even hints that manufacturing jobs will become fashionable in the US anytime in the future is matherbating like it was the last day on earth.
getalife
February 13th, 2013
1:15 pm
w disasters.
Stevie Ray
February 13th, 2013
1:17 pm
Butch Cassidy (I)
February 13th, 2013
1:14 pm
You do realize all those polls folks are so smitten with are generally conducted on 1000 give or take respondents?
Ergo, 13 million is statistically meaningful without dispute…of course the way questions are phrased can certainly impact outcomes.
getalife
February 13th, 2013
1:18 pm
“And so I think that George W. Bush, in my opinion, did a fantastic job as president over eight years…”
And that “delusional lick spittle” ended rubio’s career.
HT/ Fred.
monty
February 13th, 2013
1:18 pm
We need bigger government!! More spending and less cuts!! Go Obama!! HIgher taxes on the wealthy!! THat will solve everything!! It’s all working great!! Big government will save us, tell us what, when and how to do it!! Can’t wait for 4 more years of this stuff!! BY the time Hilary gets ready to run we’ll be well on our way to less debt and more jobs!! YAh!! It’s going to be comical when she has to diss the Obama policies in order to have something to run on.They were such good buds. But then again maybe she’ll get elected for being the 1st woman (you know like Obama did for being Black) and it won’t matter about the economy because gay marriage will mean more to the avg. american or having a woman Pres.(maybe she’ll garner every woman’s vote!!) Yay, women’s rights!! Poor America!! We’ve lost our senses. Form over substance.
Steve
February 13th, 2013
1:18 pm
40% of Republicans still think Iraq had WMDs, Jesus walked with the Dinosaurs, and Obama is a Muslim…so who cares what these people think.
moonbat betty
February 13th, 2013
1:18 pm
“American Fascist Party”
McCarthy say, WHAT!?
Steve
February 13th, 2013
1:19 pm
@monty – so how well did this all work out with George Bush/Cheney at the helm? Wasn’t three trillion dollar failed wars pretty much the BIG GOVERNMENT you are wailing about? However, they lowered taxes to the point that we can’t even keep our infrastructure in shape.
Steve
February 13th, 2013
1:20 pm
Yay! Vote against the stopping violence against women act! Yay!
Erwin's cat
February 13th, 2013
1:21 pm
so who cares what these people think.
I think we’ve finally identified the problem
mm
February 13th, 2013
1:21 pm
“Record unemployment for a first term Presidency, Record spending. Record food stamp recipients, Record number of people no longer in the workforce. Record number of people on disability, Record gas prices. Record health costs… I could go on and on and there’s nothing you could say to refute this….”
All thanks to Republican policies that are still in place.
Tax cuts.
Medicare Part D
2 wars we’re trying to wind down.
The repeal of Glass-Steagall.
Shipping jobs overseas for a tax credit.
Trade agreements.
Unregulated Wall St.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 13th, 2013
1:21 pm
S. Ray — “Ergo, 13 million is statistically meaningful without dispute…”
Rejected. 13 million, *randomly sampled,* would be meaningful.
13 million, *without* benefit of random sampling, isn’t.
alex
February 13th, 2013
1:22 pm
@ stands” thanks for the reference, but I was asking Jay, if he understood the Index, hopefully he will google your reference, “as the kids say:..let’s hear your interpretation, I don’t need no “stinking WWW”!. Sheesh! The point is a presentation of 4 out of thousands of charts will ,without furter explanation of their significance , only support what people want to see or confirm their biases. i am no economists, obviously, so I I don’t try to throw a few charts which I don’t understand into the fray and neither should Jay. and then you’ve got debbie and her fantasies about her 3rd grade math teacher, I guess she needs and outlet..go for it,
@ Bruce…., for Jay, it’s better than cowbell.
monty
February 13th, 2013
1:22 pm
“all 57 states” didn’t seem to hurt Obama.
Steve
February 13th, 2013
1:22 pm
You can tell just how insane the Republican Party has become when it can’t even agree that prosecuting and reducing violence against women is a no-brainer. For nearly two decades, even Republicans supported the Violence Against Women Act, because what kind of horrible, rotten excuse of a human being would publicly take issue with that?
Well, on Tuesday, when the Senate voted, again, to re-authorize the VAWA, 22 senators—all Republicans, all men—raised their hands to proudly proclaim, “I am that kind of horrible, rotten excuse of a human being!”
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
February 13th, 2013
1:24 pm
Ughhh that should’ve been facts and FRACTIONS! sorry!
=================
As for families, my parents immigrated here in the early 1950′, the only country that would take them, ask them if they think the explosion of govt. has helped this country, go ahead…My parents voted for obama, They came from a fascists country, you think they’re impressed by Govt . programs..
Perhaps you should start by looking up the word FASCISM in the dictionary — afterwards you can, perhaps, give us examples on how Obama is such a Fascist. I think that’ll be a great start! Whaddaya think?
Stevie Ray
February 13th, 2013
1:24 pm
Joe Hussein Mama
February 13th, 2013
1:11 pm
Technically, insurance is a means to transfer the misfortunes of a few amongst the many. Insurance is generally financed with premiums in line with all future liabilities, not a ponzi financing arrangement that exists. The problem is simple, early in its implementation, there were 16 workers supporting 1 current benefit recipient. In a matter of years, that ratio will be 2:1. So I can stop any two college graduates and say thanks in advance for the pain you will feel when I collect benefits…
JamVet
February 13th, 2013
1:24 pm
That’s right, betty. From the fascist McCarthy to the fascist Reagan to the fascist nimrods here who write about the Marxist Obama, it is the thread that has run through the GOP for sixty years…
Fortunately America’s liberals, moderates and progressives are finally getting good, very good, at politically killing American fascists…
Oscar
February 13th, 2013
1:25 pm
Monty – You must not have been listening to the President. That is not at all what he sai.
He said we need to reduce our debt, cut out waste and cut back programs nd ivest in infratructure, eucation and research with no net increasein spending, but an overall reduction. Combined with elimination od deductions to simplify the tax code.
That does not spell increase in big government..
St Simons - he-ne-ha
February 13th, 2013
1:25 pm
what i noticed and had a wtf moment over this grandchild tittybaby
of 1%er Cuban robber-barons, was –
“I benefiitted from gubmint aid to go to college.”
“We want to cut gubmint aid to go to college.”
This is one of a plethora of reasons the working class & the browns
down this way & south of here despiiise Mocha-latte Richy Rich.
Steve
February 13th, 2013
1:25 pm
@JamVet, and it is making the wingnuts lose it. I love watching the unraveling that occurs in these forums.
getalife
February 13th, 2013
1:26 pm
“Ordinary folks” is you cons.
You are self defeatists.
Your party does not care about you unless you are wealthy and can bribe them.
Your kids should shake you and say wake the f up.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 13th, 2013
1:28 pm
S. Ray — “Technically, insurance is a means to transfer the misfortunes of a few amongst the many.”
I’m aware of everything you said in your post, though I don’t agree with it all. That said, you ignore the key point, that being that SS is *insurance.*
And frankly, I thought you were better informed about SS. I’m quite disappointed in you, referring to SS as a “Ponzi” scheme; frankly, an actuarial professional like yourself should know better.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_debate_in_the_United_States#Pyramid_or_Ponzi_scheme_claims
getalife
February 13th, 2013
1:28 pm
Jay was right about rubio’s water bottle going viral.
St Simons - he-ne-ha
February 13th, 2013
1:31 pm
oh dang, one of my favorite posters beat me to his most famous quote –
“..I think (Little Nero w/a Cowboy Hat) did an excellent job..as president”
for this reason alone he should not be allowed anywhere near sharp
forks or spoons, much less levers of power.
Marty Huggins'
February 13th, 2013
1:32 pm
Steve
February 13th, 2013
1:19 pm
It figures in like it should.
What led you to believe I agreed with Bush/Cheney?
I was a 19 year old college Freshman during Bush’s first election didn’t even vote. We had a game that day and at 19 I forgot to.
But if you looked at the link, the graphs show that continually from 1970 a mandatory spending system that was very small in regards to GDP has ballooned.
It also shows that many of the lines match up with that of the income inequality.
Why continue to compare ones actions to Bush’s?
Is that really the standard we want to set for presidents?
It would be more useful to compare to President Henry Harrison
Stevie Ray
February 13th, 2013
1:33 pm
Joe Hussein Mama
February 13th, 2013
1:21 pm
You have a point about the randomness of pool but the numbers are so significant that the factor of random selection is minimalized..that is to any extent one party had a significantly larger participation level that another. In that case, the outcome needs be normalized…at least to the extent that the deviation was more that 10% or so…good point no less.
Uh Huh.......Rubio's Internal Contradictions
February 13th, 2013
1:34 pm
@larry
February 13th, 2013
12:37 pm
Speaking of Ted Nugent, did he show up last night ?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
At first reporters had a hard time finding him, but eventually the cameras discovered the Motor City Madman high in the House gallery, sitting quietly in the crowd, with his hat off, wearing non-camouflage clothing. He looked out of place, like a cowboy at a piano recital. He also looked bored.
Nugent told Breitbart that the GOP is more concerned with looking pretty than winning. They should not back off, not stop to allow the other side to talk, not acquiesce. They should escalate, he said.
“It’s almost like Mr. Rogers with Lawrence Welk music,” said Nugent, referring (we think) to the GOP. “That can’t win anything. The other side is ruthless. They’re just ruthless…. Maybe that’s why I’m allergic to ties. I see too many Republicans worried about grooming instead of winning.”
Ouch.
Uh Huh
alex
February 13th, 2013
1:36 pm
@ Debbie , another example or reading something that isn’t here because you are biased against what I have to say, before you actually read it. My parents came from a FASCISTS govt. What do I think, Read the statement, don’t prejudge, you MAY learn something more than “matherbation” if you want to.
@ Steve , of course Jesus walked with dinasours, if you believe in Christ, goodness……as for Iraq, old news ..muslim and obama, , you can’t teach everyone, see above!
JohnnyReb
February 13th, 2013
1:36 pm
It’s amazing how easily Moonbats fall for propaganda, but it explains how Obama was reelected.
Just where, please tell us, does it state, for example, in the law against assault that one can beat the heck out of woman but if a man you will be prosecuted? Let me save you some time, it doesn’t.
Where in the law on equal pay for equal work, which by the way came up for many reasons but mostly for the fair haired sex, does it state it’s OK to pay women less. Again, it doesn’t.
So, why, please tell us, do we need one more law to protect women? Answer, to make Libs feel better and give them one more talking point against those with common sense.
And, while you are at it, tell us how women will receive the fact that they will have to register for the draft, and if a draft actually occurs they will be included? That’s right, on the front line, crawling on their belly through grease, mud, sh (oh, the blue dog don’t like that word), excuse me, crap while real bullets whiz, if they are lucky, over their heads.
No, the Left has bought into the drivel of the Feminazis lock, stock and bra strap.
Erwin's cat
February 13th, 2013
1:36 pm
In fact, we are told, the answer must be to shrink those government programs that — Rubio’s denials aside — have helped himself and countless millions more Americans achieve the dreams of their fathers and mothers.
He’s probably okay with shrinking the govt to what it was when he and his family took advantage of those programs…how does shrinking a govt or a program equate to total elimination?
Uh Huh.......Rubio's Internal Contradictions
February 13th, 2013
1:37 pm
Rubio not ready for prime time.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 13th, 2013
1:37 pm
S. Ray — “You have a point about the randomness of pool but the numbers are so significant that the factor of random selection is minimalized..”
I disagree. The number cited was 12.9M out of the entire US population. That’s slightly over *four percent.* I don’t find that number “significant” at all, absent any specific context.
Itchy Finger
February 13th, 2013
1:39 pm
Butch Cassidy (I)
Itchy Finger – “Sure looks like most people didn’t agree with hardly any of obama’s tripe…. 12.9 million people..”
12.9 million out of a country of over 300 million? That translates into “most people” for you?
You must know that many million obama supporters lack internet access or can even read….
Joe Hussein Mama
February 13th, 2013
1:40 pm
J. Reb — “No, the Left has bought into the drivel of the Feminazis lock, stock and bra strap.”
So this is a preview of the Republicans’ 2016 outreach to women voters, is it?
Itchy Finger
February 13th, 2013
1:40 pm
mm
“Record unemployment for a first term Presidency, Record spending. Record food stamp recipients, Record number of people no longer in the workforce. Record number of people on disability, Record gas prices. Record health costs… I could go on and on and there’s nothing you could say to refute this….”
All thanks to Republican policies that are still in place.
Tax cuts.
Medicare Part D
2 wars we’re trying to wind down.
The repeal of Glass-Steagall.
Shipping jobs overseas for a tax credit.
Trade agreements.
Unregulated Wall St.
Blame blame blame… Is that all you loons can do? A mind is a terrible thing to waste…
JamVet
February 13th, 2013
1:41 pm
That Rubio was insane enough to actually say that about Bush/Cheney merely proves why millions of Americans are never again going to give these economic meltdown neocons another chance to prove what deadly and incompetent “crusaders” (GWB’s word) that they can once again be.
I suspect that in another 12 to 16 years they may start getting the message that they are the problem with the GOP. But maybe not…
getalife
February 13th, 2013
1:41 pm
Oh no, the gop lost the nuge.
They still have the newt for some bizarre reason.
JohnnyReb
February 13th, 2013
1:42 pm
Joe Mama – you’re a funny guy.
What’s this you think 12.9M, 4% of the populous are insignificant when your champion won reelection by a little less than 5 mil?
St Simons - he-ne-ha
February 13th, 2013
1:42 pm
‘Justice’ Scalia did not attend the SOTU.
“I don’t want to be there to lend dignity to it.”
c’mon evolution! Select for the gene that senses irony..
Stevie Ray
February 13th, 2013
1:43 pm
Joe Hussein Mama
February 13th, 2013
1:28 pm
The term ‘insurance” is often misused relative to its tenets. And yes, the need to take in money from new sources to meet obligations of earlier investors is definitely ponzi like. this is confirmed by the commentary of the vested SS administration. Also, like ponzi schemes, the administrator uses investment income with trust funds but also uses the proceeds as security to assume debt.
It’s not a nice word of course but from a financing perspective, it definitely has all the qualities of a ponzi. Since the obligations in the future are not accounted for by current collections, it is not insurance. But technicalities like this really are irrelevant.
Its as good a system as any to be certain but the underwriting demograhics upcoming are nothing short of devastating.
Seriously Folks
February 13th, 2013
1:43 pm
What I find incredible, is there are NONE of the usual conservatives on here denouncing Sen. Rubio as an “anchor baby”…remember that whole debate? HMMM???? i mean his parents “showed up on the shores of Florida” and gained immediate citizenship (I will assume that will be made into a GOP/Rubio platform..just get here and BAM your are a citizen)…had babies….and keep their rights as citizens!
(meanwhile, they still cling to a fantasy of some VAST conspiracy whereby a US Citizen (the Presidents mother) has a baby in Hawaii, and somehow he is part Kenyan….)
But thats ok…we are reminded that those “libs” have double standards….
Jefferson
February 13th, 2013
1:43 pm
It is dang sho working.
Itchy Finger
February 13th, 2013
1:43 pm
Steve
You can tell just how insane the obama and the dem Party has become when they still won’t call Ft Hood an act of terror. For nearly four years they are still in denial for fear of hurting the muslims feelings.
getalife
February 13th, 2013
1:43 pm
reb,
You got annihilated twice.
Man up and accept this fact.
JamVet
February 13th, 2013
1:44 pm
JHM, you gotta LOVE the Limbaugh-led Reb!
He is a walking billboard as to why the neocons are imploding.
And why they will likely never ( a word I do not use causally) again obtain a majority of the women voters in this country!
Awesome.
Good job misogynists!
комиссар (Occupation)
February 13th, 2013
1:44 pm
Vet: “Do we really want a one party system in America? ”
No. But we’ve effectively got one anyway.
getalife
February 13th, 2013
1:45 pm
scalia did not want to watch his party act like spoiled children again.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 13th, 2013
1:46 pm
J. Reb — “Joe Mama – you’re a funny guy.”
Shrug.
“What’s this you think 12.9M, 4% of the populous are insignificant when your champion won reelection by a little less than 5 mil?”
One, I don’t have a “champion.”
Two, how many semesters of statistics have you had at or above the undergraduate level? I want to be sure I’m not wasting my time explaining this to you before I start.
Itchy Finger
February 13th, 2013
1:46 pm
I propose a simple question to you libs. Dems controlled Congress during Bush’s last two years but bare no blame. Republicans have controlled Congress for the last two years of obama’s failed Presidency and bares all the blame… How is this a logical argument for ya’ll?
Simple Truths
February 13th, 2013
1:47 pm
Government has been such a good steward of our money and our country. Jay’s idea: let’s give them more.
No thanks. I’ll pass.
curious
February 13th, 2013
1:47 pm
Sequestration will reduce the size of Government; just not the parts of Government the Republicans don’t like.
JohnnyReb
February 13th, 2013
1:48 pm
Joe Mama – spare me your arrogance. I might not understand that 2 plus 2 equals 4.
guy
February 13th, 2013
1:48 pm
YOU LIE!
Joe Hussein Mama
February 13th, 2013
1:50 pm
S. Ray — “The term ‘insurance” is often misused relative to its tenets.”
The term “insurance” is right in the name, OASDI.
“And yes, the need to take in money from new sources to meet obligations of earlier investors is definitely ponzi like.”
However, that’s not the *only* funding mechanism SS uses, and SS employs transparency in accounting, whereas Ponzi schemes do not. In any event, pay-as-you-go funding mechanisms — such as the one employed by SS — often *appear* to be the same as Ponzi schemes, despite the fact that they’re not.
Stevie Ray
February 13th, 2013
1:50 pm
Joe Hussein Mama
February 13th, 2013
1:37 pm
Of course I see your point. As hard as it is to believe, the reason you hear caveat of +/- 3% or so, is explained by attached. As agreed the randomness of the bing thingy is suspect depending on the split. We will see what other random polls indicate I guess.
http://www.sciencebuddies.org/science-fair-projects/project_ideas/Soc_participants.shtml
Halftrack
February 13th, 2013
1:50 pm
Jay, if everything is so good – - – Why is our debt still getting bigger everyday? and where are the jobs Obummer said he provided? Where did all the “stimulus” money go and where can I see something physical that shows an improvement beyond normal or routine? Oh Yeah; I hope you really don’t believe nothing is gonna cost you another dime. Get real, look around and see for yourself that things are getting worse.
комиссар (Occupation)
February 13th, 2013
1:51 pm
Here’s the Bookman blog versioin of a retweet. It’s just such a classic, I thought we should all enjoy it again;
We need bigger government!! More spending and less cuts!! Go Obama!! HIgher taxes on the wealthy!! THat will solve everything!! It’s all working great!! Big government will save us, tell us what, when and how to do it!! Can’t wait for 4 more years of this stuff!! BY the time Hilary gets ready to run we’ll be well on our way to less debt and more jobs!! YAh!! It’s going to be comical when she has to diss the Obama policies in order to have something to run on.They were such good buds. But then again maybe she’ll get elected for being the 1st woman (you know like Obama did for being Black) and it won’t matter about the economy because gay marriage will mean more to the avg. american or having a woman Pres.(maybe she’ll garner every woman’s vote!!) Yay, women’s rights!! Poor America!! We’ve lost our senses. Form over substance.
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
February 13th, 2013
1:51 pm
Steve @ 1:22 — Wow! your comment made me think of this picture — I’m going to call it the New Republican Party Symbol Of Manhood”.
stands for decibels
February 13th, 2013
1:51 pm
Is this Bing poll supposed to tell me that Bing users get uncomfortable when Barack says “s’cuse me while I whip this out?”
is that my take-away here?
Joe Hussein Mama
February 13th, 2013
1:51 pm
J. Reb — “Joe Mama – spare me your arrogance.”
Conclusion — you’ve taken little or no Stats at the college level. Thought so.
Jefferson
February 13th, 2013
1:51 pm
The GOP is being played big time, the president whips them into a frenzy, then they play right into what he wanted…sooner or later the money backers will bail on them
getalife
February 13th, 2013
1:52 pm
Lets not answer these cons ignorant questions because they failed to even bothering to listen to our President.
You can’t fix a stupid party and just keep marginalizing these con kooks.
JohnnyReb
February 13th, 2013
1:52 pm
Some of you who proclaim intellectual superiority might want to answer why is it the AJC today chose NOT to politifact Obama’s statements on the success of Pre-K ?
Hint – I’m sure it has nothing to do with the tall, skinny black man coming to ATL tomorrow to visit. Our beloved fish wrapper would not want to offend little Barry.
moonbat betty
February 13th, 2013
1:53 pm
“Fortunately America’s liberals, moderates and progressives are finally getting good, very good, at politically killing American fascists…”
You crack me up, Jamvet!
Stevie Ray
February 13th, 2013
1:53 pm
Joe Hussein Mama
February 13th, 2013
1:50 pm
The government also calls pre-existing conditions coverage “insurance”. Nothing is further from the truth. You can’t insure a building already on fire…unless of course a buyer is willing to pay a premium in an amount of expected damage.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 13th, 2013
1:53 pm
S. Ray — “Of course I see your point. As hard as it is to believe, the reason you hear caveat of +/- 3% or so, is explained by attached.”
I’m aware of how an MOE is calculated. However, you can’t make any credible claim of a *knowable* MOE with a non-random sample like that. Heck, you don’t even have a sampling frame to start from there.
Ben
February 13th, 2013
1:55 pm
It’s interesting to look at those charts. To me those charts display quite starkly that as government has increased, so has inequality and the share of GDP going to the rich. So your solution is to increase government even more?
Did it not occur to you that those items are all moving together, and so if we instead shrink government then inequality will shrink and the share of GDP going to the rich will shrink?
Your logic is the opposite of actual logic.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 13th, 2013
1:55 pm
J. Reb — “Some of you who proclaim intellectual superiority”
J. Reb — “It’s amazing how easily Moonbats fall for propaganda, but it explains how Obama was reelected.”
Monsieur Pot, meet Senor Kettle.
Stevie Ray
February 13th, 2013
1:56 pm
DEBBIE
Sorry that doesn’t work for me..the foundation is accurate but he is not carrying a weapon with more that 10 rounds in it…also, no bible in tow or bumper stickers on his cart suggesting please don’t kill the babies.
Jay
February 13th, 2013
1:57 pm
Seriously, you’re seriously mistaken.
Rubio’s parents came here in 1956, well before Castro took power and thus well before the “one-foot-dry” policy took effect. His parents didn’t become citizens until almost 20 years later. Moreover, they emigrated here legally, so Marco was in no way an “anchor baby.”
JamVet
February 13th, 2013
1:59 pm
betty and I love it.
Spreading joy (or is it manure? LOL!) is what I love doing!
OK, back out to keep the Obama Recovery from the Bush Depression rolling…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h59mDlBSt7o
Joe Hussein Mama
February 13th, 2013
1:59 pm
S. Ray — “The government also calls pre-existing conditions coverage “insurance”. Nothing is further from the truth.”
Oh, please. An insurer can write whatever riders into a policy that it pleases, subject to applicable regulation and law. Besides, even before the ACA, plenty of health insurers would write coverage for pre-existing conditions, so long as you hadn’t needed treatment for it during the previous year or two (exclusion period). I’m sure Doom could tell you more about that, if he were here.
“You can’t insure a building already on fire…unless of course a buyer is willing to pay a premium in an amount of expected damage.”
However, I *could* insure a building that had *already* burnt down once and had been rebuilt.
Bohica
February 13th, 2013
2:00 pm
Many of the programs that Jay sights as successful govt. programs began in a different era of our history and initially had little affect on our economy. I. E. there were more workers contributing or paying into the sys than were recipients of the program. They did not have a huge impact on GDP. Our demographic has changed and there are fewer workers paying into the system and the numbers of receiving benefits has grown substantially with little change in the benefits earned. If something doesn’t change then these programs have a questionable future. Successful now, maybe not so sucessful later.
OBIWAN
February 13th, 2013
2:00 pm
Funny how libs blame Fox News for the ills of the world, so I am guessing that libs believe ABC, CBS, and NBC? How is it that the party that claims to be all inclusive single out Fox as telling lies, but ignore the lies of the other 3….
Stevie Ray
February 13th, 2013
2:02 pm
Joe Hussein Mama
February 13th, 2013
1:53 pm
My point is that if you can create a credible outcome with 1000 randomly selected, we will find some merit with a sampling of 13 million. You’d be pleased to know your challenge to that particular survey has become a fun topic for the propeller heads here.
Gotta go..
independent thinker
February 13th, 2013
2:02 pm
So this is the savior of the stupid party? He seemed as knowledgeable about the presidency as that imbecile from Alaska. Has he gotten the Karl Rove seal of approval?
DownInAlbany
February 13th, 2013
2:02 pm
Vet
February 13th, 2013
1:08 pm
Rubio is a fine man so why attack him because he has different views than Obama! Do we really want a one party system in America? People need to come together for the common good and stop blaming the other party. Two wrongs never make a right!
Simple, but, true. Very true!
Jay
February 13th, 2013
2:02 pm
Ben, before you lecture others about deficient logic, I would suggest that you google “correlation is not causation.” It might save you further embarrassment and the rest of us further tedium.
Adam
February 13th, 2013
2:03 pm
but it’s nothing that will do permanent damage to his career
I disagree. The current Republican party is very dog eat dog. It almost seems as if they put people up to do the rebuttals so they can have a reason not to like them anymore.
Itchy Finger
February 13th, 2013
2:04 pm
Jay
Seriously, you’re seriously mistaken.
Rubio’s parents came here in 1956, well before Castro took power and thus well before the “one-foot-dry” policy took effect. His parents didn’t become citizens until almost 20 years later. Moreover, they emigrated here legally, so Marco was in no way an “anchor baby.”
Wow Jay you pounced on this like a cougar on a jack rabbit. We gotta stop anyone from talking about Rubio being Hispanic and how he can relate to them and their needs…. We can’t lose that foothold…
Joe Hussein Mama
February 13th, 2013
2:07 pm
S. Ray — “My point is that if you can create a credible outcome with 1000 randomly selected, we will find some merit with a sampling of 13 million.”
Agreed, PROVIDED the 13M are ALSO randomly sampled.
Would you agree if my sample was, for example, composed of every individual living in the Greater Los Angeles area? That’d be about 13M.
How about if I said my sample was everyone living in the state of Georgia? There’s about 13M for you.
This is my point — with proper random sampling, you can make credible claims of that sort. *Without* proper random sampling, you might as well not have bothered; a WAG (Wild Azz Guess) is just as good.
You’d be pleased to know your challenge to that particular survey has become a fun topic for the propeller heads here.
Bernie
February 13th, 2013
2:08 pm
Marco Rubio is just a HAND PUPPET for the Republican Party. His remarks last night were so angry,frustrated, disconnected and he basically loooked like a USED CAR SALESMAN with too much hand movement. How can one possibly TRUST a MAN when he is speaking his hands are flailing all about. It shows lack of confidence of what is be said. If he lacks the confidence why shou;ld the American people trust him too!
Itchy Finger
February 13th, 2013
2:08 pm
When will we see some of these gun control measures brought up for a vote?