For the man who killed bin Laden, what’s next?
Esquire magazine has a fascinating, lengthy interview with the unnamed member of Seal Team 6 credited with killing Osama bin Laden. “The Shooter,” as he’s called in the piece, recently left the service after 16 years, four short of the 20 years needed for a pension and health care.
Like many who leave the military, he doesn’t know what to do next in his life.
He does know he doesn’t want anything more to do with guns or killing people, so that line of work is out. His marriage is ending, although he and wife are separating on good terms. And lurking in the background is fear that they or their children may become targets for retribution.
As his wife puts it:
“He gave so much to his country, and now it seems he’s left in the dust. I feel there’s no support, not just for my family but for other families in the community. I honestly have nobody I can go to or talk to. Nor do I feel my husband has gotten much for what he’s accomplished in his career.”
Exactly what, if any, responsibility should the government have to her family?
The loss of income and insurance and no pension aside, she can no longer walk onto the local base if she feels a threat to her family. They’ve surrendered their military IDs. If something were to happen, the Shooter has instructed her to take the kids to the base gate anyway and demand to see the commanding officer, or someone from the SEAL team. “He said someone will come get us.”
Because of the mission, she says that “my family is always going to be at risk. It’s just a matter of finding coping strategies.”
The whole piece is definitely worth a read, particularly if you’ve seen the movie version, “Zero Dark Thirty,” which is absolutely absorbing. But here are a few excerpts to whet your appetite:
“We all wrote letters (before the bin Laden operation). I had my … little room and I’m sitting on my Pelican case with all my gear, a manila envelope on my bed, and I’m writing letters to my kids. They were to be delivered in case of my death, something for them to read when they’re 35. I have no idea what I said except I’m explaining everything, that it was a noble mission and I hope we got him. I’m saying I wish I could be there for them.
“And the tears are hitting the page, because we all knew that none of us were coming back alive. It was either death or a Pakistani prison, where we’d be raped for the rest of our lives.”
He gave the letters to an intel guy not on the mission, with instructions. He would shred them if he made it back.
“You write it, it’s horrible, you hand it off, and it’s like, Okay, that part’s over. And I’m back, ready to roll.”
Then they’re gathered by a fire pit (in Afghanistan), suiting up. Just before he got on the chopper to leave for Abbottabad, the Shooter called his dad. “I didn’t know where he was, but I found out later he was in a Walmart parking lot. I said, ‘Hey, it’s time to go to work,’ and I’m thinking, I’m calling for the last time. I thought there was a good chance of dying.
He knew something significant was up, though he didn’t know what.” The Shooter could hear him start to tear up. “He told me later that he sat in his pickup in that parking lot for an hour and couldn’t get out of the car.”
On preparations should things go awry:
“The group discussed what would happen if they were surrounded by Pakistani troops. We would surrender. The original plan was to have Vice-President Biden fly to Islamabad and negotiate our release with Pakistan’s president.
This is hearsay, but I understand Obama said, Hell no. My guys are not surrendering. What do we need to rain hell on the Pakistani military? That was the one time in my life I was thinking, I am f…ing voting for this guy. I had a picture of him lying in bed at night, thinking, ‘You’re not f…ing with my guys.’ Like, he’s thinking about us.”
On approaching the bin Ladin compound:
“I remember banking to the south, which meant we were getting ready to hit. We had about another fifteen minutes. Instead of counting, for some reason I said to myself the George Bush 9/11 quote: Freedom itself was attacked this morning by a faceless coward, and freedom will be defended. I could just hear his voice, and that was neat. I started saying it again and again to myself. Then I started to get pumped up. I’m like: This is so on.”
On the end of the long hunt, as they moved through the compound toward the target:
“We had to move, because bin Laden is now going to be grabbing some weapon because he’s getting shot at. I had my hand on the point man’s shoulder and squeezed, a signal to go. The two of us went up. On the third floor, he tackled the two women in the hallway right outside the first door on the right, moving them past it just enough. He thought he was going to absorb the blast of suicide vests; he was going to kill himself so I could get the shot. It was the most heroic thing I’ve ever seen.
I rolled past him into the room, just inside the doorway.
There was bin Laden standing there. He had his hands on a woman’s shoulders, pushing her ahead, not exactly toward me but by me, in the direction of the hallway commotion. It was his youngest wife, Amal.
He looked confused. And way taller than I was expecting. He had a cap on and didn’t appear to be hit. I can’t tell you 100 percent, but he was standing and moving. He was holding her in front of him. Maybe as a shield, I don’t know.
For me, it was a snapshot of a target ID, definitely him. Even in our kill houses where we train, there are targets with his face on them. This was repetition and muscle memory. That’s him, boom, done….
And I remember as I watched him breathe out the last part of air, I thought: Is this the best thing I’ve ever done, or the worst thing I’ve ever done?”
At the end of “Zero Dark Thirty,” the camera focuses on the CIA analyst whose dedication and even obsession with tracking bin Laden finally ended up putting him in a body bag. Her mission complete, she has no idea what comes next or where to turn. The Shooter clearly shares both her sense of great accomplishment and her sense of emptiness.
– Jay Bookman
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579 comments Add your comment
Paul
February 11th, 2013
4:24 pm
Oscar
“I am surprised tht no pension and other benifits are vested until 20 yeares in the military. Should be vested at five years. Serving 16 years and leaving without any pension is really a disgrace”
A long time ago one of the justifications for the military retirement program was that it was a form of deferred compensation to make up for lower-than-civilan sector pay and living conditions. With the advent of pay parity and median compensation packages in the six figures, that rationale is weakened but the system survives. Vesting may seem fair, but it works against the idea of retaining personnel to the minimum 20-year point. But then again, so does a new GI Bill that provides nearly 50 grand a year to leave service.
Doggone/GA
February 11th, 2013
4:26 pm
“Once you’ve set that precedent and given these rights, it wouldn’t be easy trying to TAKE THOSE RIGHTS AWAY”
And I still don’t agree. All it takes is enough people in Congress to pass the bill and a President willing to sign it. Whether it will pass constitution muster is another subject, but I refer you to the treatment of Japanese American citizens during WW2 for an example of how it can be done.
Paul
February 11th, 2013
4:27 pm
Three pages and none of the Obama-bashers have taken on ” I understand Obama said, Hell no. My guys are not surrendering. What do we need to rain hell on the Pakistani military? That was the one time in my life I was thinking, I am f…ing voting for this guy. I had a picture of him lying in bed at night, thinking, ‘You’re not f…ing with my guys.’
So they must accept it as plausible.
They sure do type pretty well with their heads spinning.
UNCLE SAMANTHA
February 11th, 2013
4:28 pm
Bro is correct…….. the upfront load of pension/healthcare is the reason for the USPS woes……….
however, the demographics was becoming such that there would be more retirees than active workers as the baby boomers retire………. then it would be a huge problem..
so typical DC solution….. solve one problem by making a worse problem
dbm
February 11th, 2013
4:28 pm
DebbieDoRight – A Do Right Woman
February 11th, 2013
3:56 pm
The reason pimps can get away with exploitation is that the government forces prostitution to stay outside the law, so prostitutes have no recourse when they are subjugated by a pimp. The proper function of government is to defend everyone, including prostitutes, from the initiation of direct or indirect physical force. Where government does not perform this function, capitalism can’t function. The prostitution industry in its current form is not an example of capitalism.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 11th, 2013
4:30 pm
Apparently Itchy does not have the ability to comprehend the google. Here Itchy, let me bing that for you so you can be educated and end your ignorance about Japanese soldiers who were hung for waterboarding American prisoners of war. http://tinyurl.com/b655thz
You may also want to become educated (I know we are reaching to ask you to do that before posting on a subject, but really, be one of the first conned to try something new) by at least using Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding
Common Sense isn't very Common
February 11th, 2013
4:30 pm
Bro
Glad you’re here.
I was just speaking with someone today about the OLD retirement plan for Federal employees and had to set them straight on the differences.
The workers of today aren’t treated near as well as the former military retirees or civil service employees.
I salute you for you service to our country
Stay safe my friend
UNCLE SAMANTHA
February 11th, 2013
4:32 pm
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 11th, 2013
4:24 pm
is DEATH BY DRONE ATTACK then TORTURE?
NO
===================================================================
and now we have it
LIBERAL LOGIC
torture is WORSE than MURDER
that LIBERAL LEFT WING RADIO HOST MICHAEL SAVAGE FROM SAN FRAN HAS IT RIGHT
liberalism is a mental disorder
http://www.amazon.com/Liberalism-Mental-Disorder-Savage-Solutions/dp/1595550437
alex
February 11th, 2013
4:32 pm
Jay, inrelation to your Civil war reading earlier; read Pat Barker’s “Regeneration Trilogy”- extremely powerful anti-war sentiment.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 11th, 2013
4:34 pm
Uncle Samatha does not comprehend the difference between a prisoner in custody and a terrorist who has eluded capture and meets other criteria. Oh the poutfest.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 11th, 2013
4:36 pm
…LIBERAL LEFT WING RADIO HOST MICHAEL SAVAGE…
NOT INTENDED TO BE A FACTUAL STATEMENT.
AmericaShrugged
February 11th, 2013
4:37 pm
I’m not squishy, but you libs should figure out if you want to play PC or not. You play PC when it suits you but use words like “unconscionable” as Jay did earlier when it doesn’t.
Kam – We firebombed about 100,000 mostly women and children in Japan and followed that up with Nagasaki and Hiroshima, while under the direct orders of a Dem President. The Islamo facists killed over 3000. So no, I’m not squishy about a little water up the nose. I just wonder if blowtorches would be more effective?
UNCLE SAMANTHA
February 11th, 2013
4:39 pm
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 11th, 2013
4:34 pm
Uncle Samatha does not comprehend the difference between a prisoner in custody and a terrorist who has eluded capture and meets other criteria. Oh the poutfest.
==================================================================
KEEP UP THE GOOD FIGHT DOES NOT UNDERSTAND THAT INNOCENT WOMEN AND CHILDREN ARE NOT TERRORISTS………….. SCARY
ACTUALLY THINKS ALL DEATHS BY DRONES ARE TERRORISTS……. NOT THE 2% THAT ARE ACTUALLY TERRORISTS………….. VERY SCARY
The study by Stanford Law School and New York University’s School of Law calls for a re-evaluation of the practice, saying the number of “high-level” targets killed as a percentage of total casualties is extremely low — about 2%.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/25/world/asia/pakistan-us-drone-strikes
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 11th, 2013
4:40 pm
Israel To Praying Ladies: You Can’t Have It Yahweh
All in all it’s just another chick at the wall
Uh Huh........Your beloved Bush & Bin Laden? George W. Bush Had Ties to Billionaire bin Laden Brood
February 11th, 2013
4:41 pm
WHAT DID YOUR BELOVED BUSH DO?
alex
February 11th, 2013
4:41 pm
@Kam, get over yourself, you are filled with one word answers, so nothing new, occassionally a pithy 3-4 words, nothing special same old rubbish, you and granny and her pthith (or whatever). If you are “literally”challenged,my bad…., but get over the self-enriching arrogance…”Wait for it “(3 words)
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 11th, 2013
4:42 pm
So no, I’m not squishy about a little water up the nose.
Not intended to be a factual statement.
Oh, and PC?
Bill Maher from the mid nineties called and said he wants his talking point back.
josef
February 11th, 2013
4:43 pm
An interesting read.
Granny Godzilla
February 11th, 2013
4:43 pm
alex
it’s piffle
as is your 4:41.
AmericaShrugged
February 11th, 2013
4:45 pm
Kam please….What does this man?
So no, I’m not squishy about a little water up the nose.
Not intended to be a factual statement.
You post that same line about 5 times a day when you have absolutely nothing to contribute but still feel compelled to post something. Did mommy dearest wean you from the teat too soon?
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 11th, 2013
4:47 pm
Kam please….What does this man[sic]?
Oh, the irony.
UNCLE SAMANTHA
February 11th, 2013
4:49 pm
AmericaShrugged
February 11th, 2013
4:45 pm
Kam please….What does this man?
Not intended to be a factual statement.
================================================
“Not intended to be a factual statement.” is actually a factual statement
appleseed
February 11th, 2013
4:49 pm
Sounds screwy to me.Why did he not finish out his 20 yrs?Could he not have transferred to another unit.Or at least applied ? He made the decision,so stop the self-pity.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
February 11th, 2013
4:49 pm
So no, I’m not squishy about a little water up the nose. I just wonder if blowtorches would be more effective?
They wouldn’t that’s the problem
Torture me enough ill tell you I started the Great Chicago Fire and Killed Kennedy if that’s what you want to hear.
Intelligence gained by torture is notoriously unreliable.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 11th, 2013
4:50 pm
Sam, yes I do comprehend the distinctions. The collateral deaths from a drone attack are NOT the same as torture of a prisoner. If you wish to discuss drone policy and collateral damage (including the tragic loss of innocent civilians), lets start with WWII and firebombing a city. Congress authorized drone attacks by a President, see Patriot Act.
josef
February 11th, 2013
4:50 pm
alex
“the self-enriching arrogance…”
I like that turn of phrase. May I use it?
Oscar
February 11th, 2013
4:50 pm
At some point the drone attacks will have to stop being used in their present numbers. We may be losing more now in creating more harman danimosity than we are gaining by taking out the targets we are after.
But that is a political decision, not a legal question. Don’t think that a killing with documentation in the file showing it was reasonable aand justifiable is a violation of any law, US or International.
Common Sense isn't very Common
February 11th, 2013
4:53 pm
josef
the self-enriching arrogance
———————————————–
too late I Trademarked it
Uh Huh........Your beloved Bush & Bin Laden? George W. Bush Had Ties to Billionaire bin Laden Brood
February 11th, 2013
4:53 pm
CONS can say what they like about Obama.
What you WON’T get them to say is:
How the Bush family’s private connection to a dirty offshore bank is the only link between Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein.
The following chapter, “The BCCI Game: Banking on America, Banking on Jihad,” appears in investigative journalist Lucy Komisar’s new book “A Game as Old as Empire,” published by Berrett-Koehler (San Francisco).
Now that the U.S. Congress is investigating the truth of President George W. Bush’s statements about the Iraq war, they might look into one of his most startling assertions: that there was a link between Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden.
Critics dismissed that as an invention. They were wrong. There was a link, but not the one Bush was selling. The link between Hussein and Bin Laden was their banker, BCCI. But the link went beyond the dictator and the jihadist — it passed through Saudi Arabia and stretched all the way to George W. Bush and his father.
BCCI was the Bank of Credit and Commerce International, a dirty offshore bank that then-President Ronald Reagan’s Central Intelligence Agency used to run guns to Hussein, finance Osama bin Laden, move money in the illegal Iran-Contra operation and carry out other “agency” black ops. The Bushes also benefited privately; one of the bank’s largest Saudi investors helped bail out George W. Bush’s troubled oil investments.
UH HUH
TaxPayer
February 11th, 2013
4:55 pm
I see the Republicans posting here continue to ignore Jindal’s desire that the Republicans not be the stupid party.
josef
February 11th, 2013
4:56 pm
Common Sense….
Well, just d*mn…and I already had in mind just whom it fit…
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 11th, 2013
4:56 pm
Intelligence gained by torture is notoriously unreliable.
But…but…but… I saw the ticking time-bomb scenario on 24 so it MUST be true!
Butch Cassidy (I)
February 11th, 2013
4:56 pm
Please do not engage itchy. If you speak to him, he will never go away.
Uh Huh........Your beloved Bush & Bin Laden? George W. Bush Had Ties to Billionaire bin Laden Brood
February 11th, 2013
4:57 pm
@TaxPayer
February 11th, 2013
4:55 pm
I see the Republicans posting here continue to ignore Jindal’s desire that the Republicans not be the stupid party.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
CONS can have a FACELIFT…..
Eventually it FALLS back down.
Uh Huh
UNCLE SAMANTHA
February 11th, 2013
4:58 pm
COLLATERAL DEATHS ARE MURDER…….. LIBERALS WANT TO RUN AND HIDE FROM IT
SHAME
комиссар (Occupation)
February 11th, 2013
4:58 pm
Jay: “It certainly didn’t shy from the degrading psychological toll even on those who perpetrated the torture.”
I’m sure it did. But my point is that so is burning down a village or gang-raping women in wartime. But that doesn’t mean I want to get a chance to empathize with that psychological toll. Instead I’d like it to continue to be unthinkable that such things happen in the first place.
Doggone/GA
February 11th, 2013
4:58 pm
“If you speak to him, he will never go away”
Do we WANT him to go away?
Oscar
February 11th, 2013
4:59 pm
Arrogance becomes Him – Sounds like a good movie title
Common Sense isn't very Common
February 11th, 2013
4:59 pm
josef
Send Jay the check when you use that phrase and all will be good,
Doggone/GA
February 11th, 2013
4:59 pm
“COLLATERAL DEATHS ARE MURDER…….. LIBERALS WANT TO RUN AND HIDE FROM IT”
Unlike the cons, who didn’t even bother to COUNT them during that ill advised adventure in Iraq
Uh Huh........Your beloved Bush & Bin Laden? George W. Bush Had Ties to Billionaire bin Laden Brood
February 11th, 2013
5:00 pm
@UNCLE SAMANTHA
February 11th, 2013
4:58 pm
COLLATERAL DEATHS ARE MURDER…….. LIBERALS WANT TO RUN AND HIDE FROM IT
SHAME
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
JUST LIKE CONS WANT TO RUN AND HIDE FROM WEAPONS
OF MASS DESTRUCTION THAT CAUSED THOUSANDS TO
LOSE THEIR LIVES.
SHAME
UH HUH
josef
February 11th, 2013
5:01 pm
Common Sense
He takes a 10% fee, ya know…
Cosby
February 11th, 2013
5:01 pm
to the press and the white house and congress – Some things should remain secret and not made public like the Grammy’s…no Seal Team 6, no identification of those who belonged to Seal Team 6..but no..we have one of their own writing a book, we have the press lurching at each corner to get that “Excludive Interview”…..when all should have kept silent shame on those who cannot keep a secret. Now the dumb government should step in and hel he and his family..but they will not see government motors and green energy!!
UNCLE SAMANTHA
February 11th, 2013
5:01 pm
Doggone/GA
February 11th, 2013
4:59 pm
“COLLATERAL DEATHS ARE MURDER…….. LIBERALS WANT TO RUN AND HIDE FROM IT”
Unlike the cons, who didn’t even bother to COUNT them during that ill advised adventure in Iraq
======================================================================
WELL SAID
UNCLE SAMANTHA
February 11th, 2013
5:02 pm
Uh Huh……..Your beloved Bush & Bin Laden? George W. Bush Had Ties to Billionaire bin Laden Brood
February 11th, 2013
5:00 pm
@UNCLE SAMANTHA
February 11th, 2013
4:58 pm
COLLATERAL DEATHS ARE MURDER…….. LIBERALS WANT TO RUN AND HIDE FROM IT
SHAME
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
JUST LIKE CONS WANT TO RUN AND HIDE FROM WEAPONS
OF MASS DESTRUCTION THAT CAUSED THOUSANDS TO
LOSE THEIR LIVES.
SHAME
UH HUH
======================================================================
AGREED
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
February 11th, 2013
5:03 pm
DG — DG please read the following words, (that i stated earlier):
it wouldn’t be easy trying to TAKE THOSE RIGHTS AWAY”
I said it wouldn’t be easy, i didn’t say it wouldn’ t be impossible.
================
dbm: The proper function of government is to defend everyone, including prostitutes, from the initiation of direct or indirect physical force. Where government does not perform this function, capitalism can’t function. The prostitution industry in its current form is not an example of capitalism.
Tomato / tomato it’s walking like a duck, talking like a duck, etc.; etc.
IMO prostitution is a GREAT example of capitalism.
Definition (as defined by Websters):
Capitalism – an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market.
an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods
the pimp OWNS the h@@es – the ho##es are the goods.
investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods
the pimp determine the prices that the h##es will solicit from their customers.
determined mainly by competition in a free market
the pimp’s pricing will be in line with what the other pimp’s are getting from their ho##s; in order to compete for the customer’s dollars.
All of this ^^ sounds like the perfect example of capitalism in its purest form.
Common Sense isn't very Common
February 11th, 2013
5:03 pm
josef
How else do you think he can pay for that cheap bourbon he drinks
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 11th, 2013
5:04 pm
to the press and the white house and congress – Some things should remain secret and not made public
Valerie Plame says, “What?”
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
February 11th, 2013
5:04 pm
DG — DG please read the following words, (that i stated earlier):
it wouldn’t be easy trying to TAKE THOSE RIGHTS AWAY”
I said it wouldn’t be easy, i didn’t say it wouldn’ t be impossible.
================
dbm: The proper function of government is to defend everyone, including prostitutes, from the initiation of direct or indirect physical force. Where government does not perform this function, capitalism can’t function. The prostitution industry in its current form is not an example of capitalism.
Tomato / tomato it’s walking like a duck, talking like a duck, etc.; etc.
IMO prostitution is a GREAT example of capitalism.
Definition (as defined by Websters):
Capitalism – an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market.
an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods
for intents and purposes, the pimp OWNS the h#@es – therefore the ho##es are the goods.
investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods
the pimp determines the price that the h##es will solicit from their customers.
determined mainly by competition in a free market
the pimp’s pricing will be in line with what the other pimp’s are getting from their ho##s; in order to compete for the customer’s dollars.
IMO All of this ^^ sounds like the perfect example of capitalism in its purest form.
UNCLE SAMANTHA
February 11th, 2013
5:05 pm
SOME DUMMY LIBERALS ACTUALLY BELIEVE I AM CONSERVATIVE………..AND TRY TO COUNTER MY ARGUMENTS OF THE HYPICRACY OF THE LIBERALS BY DEFLECTING TO A CONSERVATIVE POINT OF EQUAL BUT OPPOSITE IDIOCY
SILLY LIBERAL RABBITS
TRIX IS FOR KIDS
Recon 0311 2533
February 11th, 2013
5:05 pm
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed appears to be in much better condition than Anwar al-Awlaki and his 16 year old son. KSM and two others underwent enhanced interrogation in the form of water boarding and Leon Pannetta recently dispelled White House misinformation by stating that water boarding did indeed play a significant role in obtaining the intelligence that led to OBL. I don’t particularly have a problem with how the Obama administration sends the likes of al-Awlaki off to Allah but when these guys get slammed with a Hell-Fire rocket there’s not much left of them to provide any intel. It does beg the question should one wish to debate the humane issue as to which is the most humane enhanced interrogation that produces actionable intelligence while leaving the interrogatee alive and well or a drone strike that produces a confirmed kill.
Common Sense isn't very Common
February 11th, 2013
5:09 pm
Del
Boots on the ground come with other risks as you know.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 11th, 2013
5:09 pm
SOMEONE WHO USES THE WORD “HYPICRACY”, SHOULDN’T BE THROWING WORDS AROUND LIKE “DUMMY” AND “IDIOCY”.
JUST SUGGESTING
JamVet
February 11th, 2013
5:10 pm
I find it very encouraging that we now have a robust anti-war voice among Republicans and other right wingers.
UNCLE SAMANTHA, AmericaShrugged and Itchy are to be commended for standing up to and denouncing those who violate American and international law in the name of the “War on Terror”.
Hopefully their voices were heard loud and clear during the previous administration’s serial violations of law as well, but even if they are new to this concept, they have now joined in with the anti-war movement and are speaking out against this administration. And that is important.
And I welcome them to the fold. We need many more of them!
That Black Guy
February 11th, 2013
5:10 pm
If any of you guys know jay personally, please shake his hand for me.
Jay, thanks for bringing this to your attention.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 11th, 2013
5:10 pm
It does beg the question should one wish to debate the humane issue as to which is the most humane enhanced interrogation that produces actionable intelligence while leaving the interrogatee alive and well or a drone strike that produces a confirmed kill.
Oh prey tell, how do you interrogate a person not in custody. Or you just yelling at the clouds again?
That Black Guy
February 11th, 2013
5:11 pm
Jay, thanks for bringing this to your attention.
make that OUR attention.
That Black Guy
February 11th, 2013
5:14 pm
Native Atlantan
February 11th, 2013
2:00 pm
Only Crapwich could take a unifying moment and turn it partisan…..
*along with his twin*
fedup
February 11th, 2013
2:00 pm
Some facts. It was riveting. Can somebody do something for the shooter and his family.
Now cons and NRA bums take a lesson from the shooter. He has nothing to do with guns.
barking frog
February 11th, 2013
5:16 pm
josef
you may have self-effacing arrogance….
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
February 11th, 2013
5:17 pm
I’ve figured out how we can NOT use the drones and STILL get those terrorists!
We can teleport them!
Don’t laugh! They do it on Star Trek all the time!
Just the other day, I saw where Capt. Jean Luc Picard, told his Chief Engineer, to “beam” up an enemy combatant and send them directly to the brig!!
It was fascinating!
If we did that, we could save lives, millions of lives, property and food supplies!
this would work people! this would really work!
Who’s with me?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 11th, 2013
5:17 pm
josef, thought you might enjoy this one: Atop yet another typical Fox News article espousing the merits of heteronormativity sits a decidedly atypical sight: A photo of the same-sex couple who made headlines last year for being the first same-sex couple to get married at the Empire State Building.
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
February 11th, 2013
5:18 pm
Oh and thanks common for the dedication!!
You’re so sweet!
Recon 0311 2533
February 11th, 2013
5:18 pm
Oh prey tell, how do you interrogate a person not in custody. Or you just yelling at the clouds again?
The voice of incoherence utters yet another inane comment.
That Black Guy
February 11th, 2013
5:19 pm
Native Atlantan
February 11th, 2013
2:00 pm
Only Crapwich could take a unifying moment and turn it partisan…..
_____________________________________________
Reading 30 min after your post shows that it’s NOT “Only Crapwich could take a unifying moment and turn it partisan…..”
Both sides…
Brosephus™
February 11th, 2013
5:20 pm
NoCom
I laugh my ass off at people who think government workers have some kind of big assed retirement plan. Unless you were hired before 1987, your retirement plan could best be called, “market better save my ass ’cause that’s all I’ll have by the time I retire.” The people who retire in the next 10 years might be lucky, but I don’t expect to see a penny from Social Security or my defined pension, as small as it is.
Real Scootter
February 11th, 2013
5:21 pm
Oh prey tell, how do you interrogate a person not in custody. Or you just yelling at the clouds again?
Keep,
How would you answer the question he posed? (no snarc)
josef
February 11th, 2013
5:21 pm
Common Sense
A bourbon man can’t be all bad…
FROG
Not if you believe my detractor from last evening!
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 11th, 2013
5:22 pm
In other words, Del fails again.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 11th, 2013
5:24 pm
Scooter, Del did not post a question that can be answered. You cannot interrogate a person not in custody. So “which is the “most humane enhanced interrogation technique” is plainly an idiotic question when discussing a drone attack on a person who is not in custody nor easily reached.
josef
February 11th, 2013
5:25 pm
GOOD FIGHT
Now that’s just TOOOO funny! Thanks for sharing…
BROSEPHUS
Got my first pre-retirement workshop coming up next Monday…furlough day…how apt is that?
indigo
February 11th, 2013
5:25 pm
Uncle – 4:18
How do you know women and children were killed?
Were you there?
And, even if you’re right, you know perfectly well I was NOT talking about them.
Common Sense isn't very Common
February 11th, 2013
5:25 pm
DDR
any time love
Keep
If a person who had a sex change operation in somewhere else and then moved to Ga. and then got married, what would be their standing?
I am curious as this might be a real problem nationwide.
getalife
February 11th, 2013
5:25 pm
cnn and rw media covered this one.
He is working some as a consultant.
Orange13
February 11th, 2013
5:27 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUzMPlQb2G4
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
February 11th, 2013
5:27 pm
Oh prey tell, how do you interrogate a person not in custody. Or you just yelling at the clouds again?
Not keep, (he’s prettier — he looks like a girl, throws like one too); but I would ask the question is there just some people who are too dangerous to keep in custody?
Would we really want to endanger our people’s lives by keeping someone like OBL in custody? Imagine the rescue attempts that would take place trying to free him; not to mention the disruption that he may bring to the general population at the facility.
Imagine the SYMBOLISM too. He would become a martyr, a symbol of a man who is holding out against american imperialism. Good example (but not a PERFECT EXAMPLE) is Nelson Mandela. the South Africans would’ve had more peace if they would’ve just executed him. By keeping him imprisoned and alive all those years, they just strengthened the resistance.
IMO
Recon 0311 2533
February 11th, 2013
5:29 pm
Common Sense, you’re correct there. Like I said I personally don’t have a problem with drone strike hits on terrorists. We can’t, however, kill enough of them to really get ahead in this war. Over the last four years we’ve only captured one high ranking AQ member. It seems we’re losing sight of valuable intelligence opportunities with a kill only strategy verses a capture or kill.
Real Scootter
February 11th, 2013
5:30 pm
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 11th, 2013
5:24 pm
Thanks Keep! No wonder I couldn’t come up with an answer.I was really hoping you had one!
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 11th, 2013
5:30 pm
Common, not sure. I suspect it depends on the definition of woman and whether it requires “natural born” (whatever that means in an age of fertility implantation). But I have not researched that.
josef
February 11th, 2013
5:31 pm
DDR
Good point at 5:27
Soothsayer
February 11th, 2013
5:34 pm
As stated before, I think that the “real-life killing” of Osama bin Laden and now this movie are wonderful works of fiction designed to entertain an ignorant populace.
Gosh, we kill the head of Al Qaeda, and, rather than putting him in the cold locker aboard ship and returning his body to the U.S. for identification, we give him a full-fledged burial at sea presumably with honors.
Then, serendipitously, most of those involved in the “raid” are killed in a questionable helicopter accident.
I think this good soldier knows when to “get out while the getting’s good.”
I love a good fiction.
Common Sense isn't very Common
February 11th, 2013
5:34 pm
Del
Human Intel has been cut along with the budget over the years, what would you do to increase the amount of intel available?
Recon 0311 2533
February 11th, 2013
5:35 pm
Scooter, Del did not post a question that can be answered. You cannot interrogate a person not in custody. So “which is the “most humane enhanced interrogation technique” is plainly an idiotic question when discussing a drone attack on a person who is not in custody nor easily reached
Do you proof read your posts before clicking submit comment. No problem a rhetorical question.
josef
February 11th, 2013
5:36 pm
Common Sense
Why do you ask? Inquiring minds want to know….
Oscar
February 11th, 2013
5:36 pm
Bro at 5:20 – Good plan. If you don’t expect anything you won’t be disappointed.
I think s.s. will be here, but, you are right not to count on it. Or a pension.
Brosephus™
February 11th, 2013
5:36 pm
josef
In layman’s terms, I think you just got the finger.
That Black Guy
February 11th, 2013
5:37 pm
indigo
February 11th, 2013
3:11 pm
In the middle – 2:55
What is this Obamaphone you speak of?
Is this one of the gifts Ronald McRomney alluded to?
How do I get one?
__________________________________
http://obamaphone.net/
Oscar
February 11th, 2013
5:38 pm
Does the Pope have a pension?
Common Sense isn't very Common
February 11th, 2013
5:39 pm
josef
If you retire you will be here ALL DAY.
Gessh Jay will not have a freakin break. More Bourbon will be called for.
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
February 11th, 2013
5:40 pm
hiya josef! sorry it me so long to “write” you back. I hardly EVAH go through non-work related emails (unless they’re Evites!); so i missed the shout out.
Common Sense isn't very Common
February 11th, 2013
5:41 pm
josef
I have a friend who is trying to decide where to get married
josef
February 11th, 2013
5:41 pm
Why not stick to the tried and true…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAn7baRbhx4
UNCLE SAMANTHA
February 11th, 2013
5:41 pm
indigo
February 11th, 2013
5:25 pm
Uncle – 4:18
How do you know women and children were killed?
Were you there?
And, even if you’re right, you know perfectly well I was NOT talking about them.
=====================================================================
AND HOW DO YOU KNOW ONLY TERRORISTS WERE KILLED…… WERE YOU THERE?
RB from Gwinnett
February 11th, 2013
5:42 pm
Can you liberals clear this up for me, please….
Was it this guy who killed Osama, or was it his gun? Seems if the gun was the blame for Newtown, it must also get the blame/credit for Osama, right?
Oscar
February 11th, 2013
5:44 pm
RB – It was the bullet that killed him
Real Scootter
February 11th, 2013
5:44 pm
Do you proof read your posts before clicking submit comment
Yes I do Recon and still manage to make stupid mistakes.I don’t understand your point in asking me that question though.Would you mind explaining?
barking frog
February 11th, 2013
5:45 pm
Oscar
the pope does not have a pension plan but he may create
one before he leaves office.
josef
February 11th, 2013
5:45 pm
DDR
You should have another one…
Brosephus
Curious
S/he’s marrying a sex change?
COMMON SENSE
He deserves it, I tell ya…
getalife
February 11th, 2013
5:45 pm
rb,
I would love to own the gun that killed obl.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 11th, 2013
5:45 pm
Doggone, that is a great law school question but it presumes a lot. If an American citizen, then constitutionally you could not kill once in custody (although we know that some law enforcement has acted as judge and executioner). But whether OBL would have been a “magnet” for more attacks alive or dead, or a martyr whether alive or dead presumes we can have a lot of “facts” that are really non-existence. Saddam was not much of a lightning rod once captured. And we have prisoners all the time who may encourage others to try to free.
Recon 0311 2533
February 11th, 2013
5:45 pm
Common Sense, just for an example we now know enough about the bin Ladin operation, (although we shouldn’t) to know it was a snuff operation and he could have been easily captured. Imagine OBL undergoing enhanced interrogation. He would have broke. Even though the CIA has done a great job of intercepting communication traffic and utilizing informent assets given the nature of this enemy we need to focus capturing and interrogating not just eliminatinghigh value targets IMO.