For the man who killed bin Laden, what’s next?
Esquire magazine has a fascinating, lengthy interview with the unnamed member of Seal Team 6 credited with killing Osama bin Laden. “The Shooter,” as he’s called in the piece, recently left the service after 16 years, four short of the 20 years needed for a pension and health care.
Like many who leave the military, he doesn’t know what to do next in his life.
He does know he doesn’t want anything more to do with guns or killing people, so that line of work is out. His marriage is ending, although he and wife are separating on good terms. And lurking in the background is fear that they or their children may become targets for retribution.
As his wife puts it:
“He gave so much to his country, and now it seems he’s left in the dust. I feel there’s no support, not just for my family but for other families in the community. I honestly have nobody I can go to or talk to. Nor do I feel my husband has gotten much for what he’s accomplished in his career.”
Exactly what, if any, responsibility should the government have to her family?
The loss of income and insurance and no pension aside, she can no longer walk onto the local base if she feels a threat to her family. They’ve surrendered their military IDs. If something were to happen, the Shooter has instructed her to take the kids to the base gate anyway and demand to see the commanding officer, or someone from the SEAL team. “He said someone will come get us.”
Because of the mission, she says that “my family is always going to be at risk. It’s just a matter of finding coping strategies.”
The whole piece is definitely worth a read, particularly if you’ve seen the movie version, “Zero Dark Thirty,” which is absolutely absorbing. But here are a few excerpts to whet your appetite:
“We all wrote letters (before the bin Laden operation). I had my … little room and I’m sitting on my Pelican case with all my gear, a manila envelope on my bed, and I’m writing letters to my kids. They were to be delivered in case of my death, something for them to read when they’re 35. I have no idea what I said except I’m explaining everything, that it was a noble mission and I hope we got him. I’m saying I wish I could be there for them.
“And the tears are hitting the page, because we all knew that none of us were coming back alive. It was either death or a Pakistani prison, where we’d be raped for the rest of our lives.”
He gave the letters to an intel guy not on the mission, with instructions. He would shred them if he made it back.
“You write it, it’s horrible, you hand it off, and it’s like, Okay, that part’s over. And I’m back, ready to roll.”
Then they’re gathered by a fire pit (in Afghanistan), suiting up. Just before he got on the chopper to leave for Abbottabad, the Shooter called his dad. “I didn’t know where he was, but I found out later he was in a Walmart parking lot. I said, ‘Hey, it’s time to go to work,’ and I’m thinking, I’m calling for the last time. I thought there was a good chance of dying.
He knew something significant was up, though he didn’t know what.” The Shooter could hear him start to tear up. “He told me later that he sat in his pickup in that parking lot for an hour and couldn’t get out of the car.”
On preparations should things go awry:
“The group discussed what would happen if they were surrounded by Pakistani troops. We would surrender. The original plan was to have Vice-President Biden fly to Islamabad and negotiate our release with Pakistan’s president.
This is hearsay, but I understand Obama said, Hell no. My guys are not surrendering. What do we need to rain hell on the Pakistani military? That was the one time in my life I was thinking, I am f…ing voting for this guy. I had a picture of him lying in bed at night, thinking, ‘You’re not f…ing with my guys.’ Like, he’s thinking about us.”
On approaching the bin Ladin compound:
“I remember banking to the south, which meant we were getting ready to hit. We had about another fifteen minutes. Instead of counting, for some reason I said to myself the George Bush 9/11 quote: Freedom itself was attacked this morning by a faceless coward, and freedom will be defended. I could just hear his voice, and that was neat. I started saying it again and again to myself. Then I started to get pumped up. I’m like: This is so on.”
On the end of the long hunt, as they moved through the compound toward the target:
“We had to move, because bin Laden is now going to be grabbing some weapon because he’s getting shot at. I had my hand on the point man’s shoulder and squeezed, a signal to go. The two of us went up. On the third floor, he tackled the two women in the hallway right outside the first door on the right, moving them past it just enough. He thought he was going to absorb the blast of suicide vests; he was going to kill himself so I could get the shot. It was the most heroic thing I’ve ever seen.
I rolled past him into the room, just inside the doorway.
There was bin Laden standing there. He had his hands on a woman’s shoulders, pushing her ahead, not exactly toward me but by me, in the direction of the hallway commotion. It was his youngest wife, Amal.
He looked confused. And way taller than I was expecting. He had a cap on and didn’t appear to be hit. I can’t tell you 100 percent, but he was standing and moving. He was holding her in front of him. Maybe as a shield, I don’t know.
For me, it was a snapshot of a target ID, definitely him. Even in our kill houses where we train, there are targets with his face on them. This was repetition and muscle memory. That’s him, boom, done….
And I remember as I watched him breathe out the last part of air, I thought: Is this the best thing I’ve ever done, or the worst thing I’ve ever done?”
At the end of “Zero Dark Thirty,” the camera focuses on the CIA analyst whose dedication and even obsession with tracking bin Laden finally ended up putting him in a body bag. Her mission complete, she has no idea what comes next or where to turn. The Shooter clearly shares both her sense of great accomplishment and her sense of emptiness.
– Jay Bookman
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579 comments Add your comment
Dunwoody Granny
February 11th, 2013
3:19 pm
DDR –
I think the door closes with this mission.
There was a $25M bounty on bin Laden because he was a true danger to our country, as well as a hugely symbolic opponent. I think the men and women who put an end to him should get that bounty.
I realize this is outside the rules. I still think the circumstances are outside the ordinary.
RIckster
February 11th, 2013
3:19 pm
but… but… Pres. Obama promised that “If you like your health care… you can keep it.”
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
February 11th, 2013
3:19 pm
Well, I’m real sorry for this guy and his family but that’s the way it is when you’re in the military. They expect and take everything from you. When I got out of the army no one was falling all over hisself to hire me and the GI Bill wasn’t much use to a guy that never finished the 5th grade. As for what you do when you’re in there, that’s not your call except when you volunteer. Some people get lucky by getting a MOS that can prepare them for a civilian job. But there ain’t much call for a infantryman or a trained killer. And while you’re in there, the people that duck military service but scream about patriotism are getting a leg up on you in the civilian job market. In my opinion it was a little fairer when there was a draft and you had to go.
So this poor guy is finding out what I found out. Nobody gives a tinker’s damn about your military service, tho they pretend to be grateful for it. Your military service and 3 bucks will buy you a cup of coffee. You get out with nothing you didn’t have when you went in except for the pride of serving. And it’s even worse for the people that get their head messed up in combat, because there’s no help offered by the military.
I’ll get off of my soapbox now. Just want y’all to know there’s alot of resentment built up in this old redneck.
Erwin's cat
February 11th, 2013
3:20 pm
He was responding to the comment that I posted.
so…I was responding to the comment he posted.
Is the biologist any different than the enlisted man just doing a job?
emz
February 11th, 2013
3:20 pm
I agree with DebbieDoRight @ 2:24 pm and 2:29 pm and 2:39 pm — said all the things I’ve been thinking. He did shoot him but he just happened to be the SEAL in that place; it was his job — could have been another SEAL. Also I thought there was to be total secrecy about the identity of the SEALS. If he’s concerned about his family, he should be quiet.
Jay
February 11th, 2013
3:20 pm
Occupation, I’ve seen the movie, and because of its frankness, it strengthened rather than weakened my opposition to use of torture. I didn’t see it as an apologia for torture in any way.
stands for decibels
February 11th, 2013
3:20 pm
I have read numerous accounts of the narrative and the depiction of torture
Every account of that movie tells me that the viewer is led to believe that torture totally got us OBL.
I’ve no interest in enriching scammers so, I don’t plan to watch it anytime soon. Maybe if/when it’s a free streamer on Netflix. Maybe.
TBS
February 11th, 2013
3:23 pm
Corbin @ 3:17
Well said.
And as always I thank each of you on the blog who have served or are currently serving in a military or law enforcement capacity.
комиссар (Occupation)
February 11th, 2013
3:24 pm
Jay: “Occupation, I’ve seen the movie, and because of its frankness, it strengthened rather than weakened my opposition to use of torture. I didn’t see it as an apologia for torture in any way.”
Really? Well in that case, I really will have to wait until I have seen and can judge for myself.
Itchy Finger
February 11th, 2013
3:26 pm
Jay
Occupation, I’ve seen the movie, and because of its frankness, it strengthened rather than weakened my opposition to use of torture. I didn’t see it as an apologia for torture in any way.
So the use of drones by the current occupant of the White House to kill American citizens without substantial evidence is ok? The logic of libs is so confusing… Ok to kill but not make someone sweat or listen to loud music of be dunked under water… Whoa the missing logic….
Jay
February 11th, 2013
3:28 pm
Itchy, your phrase “without substantial evidence” makes that entire post a lie.
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
February 11th, 2013
3:29 pm
Corbin: Nobody I knew ever knew what he was getting into when they joined the service.
Maybe — however, if you’ve joined the service during WAR TIME; do you at least EXPECT to have to go to war?
If you’ve joined an elite group called the NAVY SEALS, and you know just as well as the most dense civilian knows just WHAT the Seals do, do you at least EXPECT to have to carry out a mission that is hazardous?
If you are a POLICE OFFICER, and you’re working in the streets, do you expect that one day, if you’re unlucky you may catch a bullet? maybe for something as innocuous as a domestic violence call or maybe during a routine traffic stop.
Why is it any different for a soldier/servicemember? Our servicemembers are NOT stupid and it is a all volunteer military; you can not seriously expect me to believe that SOME aspects of military life was not expected. That would be ludicrous.
Corbin: I sent a good part of my Care in Special Boat Units, working with the SEAL teams.
I spend a good deal of my time TALKING to old soldiers. Sometimes it helps them; sometimes it helps me to understand them.
Has anyone on this blog ever actually sit down and TALKED to them about their service? Especially if they served during a time of war? I have. Sometimes, they can’t talk to their families; so they talk to people liek me; (I volunteer at the VA), because they know I’ll listen.
I’ve never said, that what some of these soldiers go through and what they’ve LIVED through isn’t hell; but its part of the job. Period.
I’m not disrespecting their service, their sacrifice, their scars or their memories; but it is what it is. Period.
комиссар (Occupation)
February 11th, 2013
3:29 pm
stands for decibels: “Every account of that movie tells me that the viewer is led to believe that torture totally got us OBL.”
Absolutely, same for me. And even if the film is ‘agnostic’, the fact that some take it as an implicit invitation to embrace torture is enough, in a sense, for me. In other words, the fact that the film even leaves open the possibility to be entertained is almost tantamount to implicit endorsement.
For example, can you imagine a film that portrayed other tactics of genocide, such as gang rape and the abuse of women and children, etc., and did so in a “neutral” light so that the viewer was free to “judge for himself”? Naturally, we would find that repellant and morally obscene. The same should be true of waterboarding and any other torture.
Jefferson
February 11th, 2013
3:32 pm
itch is full.
Redcoat
February 11th, 2013
3:32 pm
I sure the Shooter could have any assignment he wanted to finish 20 years……..why didn’t he? Who “outed” our Seals to begin with?
Itchy Finger
February 11th, 2013
3:32 pm
Jay
Itchy, your phrase “without substantial evidence” makes that entire post a lie.
obama is in charge of the military… This man is a veteran. I guess somehow its the GOP’s fault he’s being forgotten about???
Jay
February 11th, 2013
3:32 pm
Occupation, I took it as a relatively straightforward account of what happened, warts and all, rather than a movie making a political statement one way or the other.
Redcoat
February 11th, 2013
3:34 pm
* I’m
TaxPayer
February 11th, 2013
3:34 pm
itchy finger lives a lie.
Itchy Finger
February 11th, 2013
3:34 pm
Redcoat
I sure the Shooter could have any assignment he wanted to finish 20 years……..why didn’t he? Who “outed” our Seals to begin with?
The obama administration did… They went around the country patting themselves on the back and his followers let it slip…..
Jay
February 11th, 2013
3:35 pm
It certainly didn’t shy from the degrading psychological toll even on those who perpetrated the torture.
too little time
February 11th, 2013
3:37 pm
DebbiDoRight: “Hash but true. It happens all over the world, for instance — You work for Merck Laboratories as a biologists or whatever, and discovers a new drug that SAVES billions of lives. you don’t get SQUAT. You MAY get a bonus, but other than that, you don’t get one DIME. who gets all the money AND the patent from all your hard work and toil? THE COMPANY you work for”
I think DebbieDoRight has the capitalist system of exploitation down pretty pat.
Except you both are missing the part where, like the vast majority of times, you DONT come up with the next best drug since sliced bread, and Merck pays you a salary anyway… .for years and years. And you don’t mention where Merck spent millions of dollars developing that drug… and others that never made it. But you didn’t have any skin in the game, so when a drug goes bad, you don’t have to repay your salary do you? So WHO is taking the risk? MERCK! Thats right, the company that laid their millions/billions on the line took ALL of the risk. Therefore, they get ALL of the profit. THAT is what capitalism is about. THAT is NOT exploitation. And when someone dies from the drug that you created and Merck profited from, YOU don’t go to court… Merck does. And when a financial judgement comes out against Merck from a drug that you created, you don’t pay that penalty, Merck does.
DebbiDoRight and your example of exploitation is laughable, and shows just how little the both of you know about capitalism.
Itchy Finger
February 11th, 2013
3:37 pm
Its sad that obama is willing to cut veterans benefits but not touch unionized federal workers… He now wants to give them a raise!
http://www.humanevents.com/2012/02/28/obama-cuts-military-health-care-benefits-leaves-unionized-civilians-untouched/
barking frog
February 11th, 2013
3:37 pm
After reading the entire article I still say Good job, now take
care of your family. Veteran’s benefits may help.
Doggone/GA
February 11th, 2013
3:37 pm
“I realize this is outside the rules. I still think the circumstances are outside the ordinary”
And I don’t think it is. The only thing “outside the ordinary” is that the media publicized the story because of who died. We don’t hear about all the other brave soldiers who did the job they signed up for.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 11th, 2013
3:37 pm
Ok to kill but not make someone sweat or listen to loud music of be dunked under water… Whoa the missing logic….
Waterboarding is torture, sport.
Itchy Finger
February 11th, 2013
3:38 pm
The Bookman buffoons just can’t stay with it today… What’s up???
UNCLE SAMANTHA
February 11th, 2013
3:38 pm
DIRTY POLLUTING LIBERALS
you sold us a bill of goods you lying libs………….. SHAME ON YOU
http://www.rr.com/news/topic/article/rr/55255105/81350875/Solar_industry_grapples_with_hazardous_wastes
Itchy Finger
February 11th, 2013
3:39 pm
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
Ok to kill but not make someone sweat or listen to loud music of be dunked under water… Whoa the missing logic….
Waterboarding is torture, sport.
That’s your opinion sport. No one has ever taken this court to determine if it was. Using drones to kill people without evidence is murder sport….
GT
February 11th, 2013
3:40 pm
It is the realness that escapes us. I think in the age of television and film we become disenfranchised with reality, it is the only way to explain dead babies on playgrounds, ugly hate.
I thoroughly think our forefathers had a better handle on the needs of each of us for each other. They had to live and know other human beings to survive. The enemy was a sea and language away, usually described by propaganda where the goal was hate, but domestically we were all Americans, which meant we were human.
We have these feelings of hate for our fellow countrymen because we don’t meet them, they are like that German in World War II, we are feed propaganda and we are too willing because most of us are social cowards to believe it and not realize it for what it is. A manipulation of good people to do the work of bad men and women is always the reward for hating our fellow man.
getalife
February 11th, 2013
3:41 pm
This would make a good tv movie and he could get paid.
His story is not over.
I hope he gets paid because the man that killed obl is a BFD.
Dunwoody Granny
February 11th, 2013
3:42 pm
Jay, meaning no disrespect, but from the books I’ve read (including “Manhunt” by Peter Bergen and Mark Bowden’s book), I think the film leaned a little more on the intel from torture than real life would have justified. I agree that it wasn’t to make a political statement; I think it was just because it’s a lot more dramatic to watch someone review tapes of torture sessions than to watch someone load search terms in order to comb through data files.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 11th, 2013
3:42 pm
Well if it’s just dunking under water, I wonder why Hannity chickened out after “bravely” promising to be waterboarded for charity.
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
February 11th, 2013
3:43 pm
Granny: I think the door closes with this mission.
Not that simple Granny…..once you’ve opened a door you’ve set a precedent. Once a precedent is set, it can’t be ignored or undone.
For example — The civil rights. You can’t say, “I’m going to let Black people drink from this fountain for 30 years”; then all of sudden take it away from them.
Life doesn’t work like that.
Corbin Sharpe. I think, therefore I am...I think.
February 11th, 2013
3:43 pm
Itchy Finger
February 11th, 2013
3:38 pm
The Bookman buffoons just can’t stay with it today… What’s up???
That’s because we are all pointing our fingers at you and laughing.
Itchy Finger
February 11th, 2013
3:45 pm
Corbin Sharpe. I think, therefore I am…I think.
February 11th, 2013
3:43 pm
Itchy Finger
February 11th, 2013
3:38 pm
The Bookman buffoons just can’t stay with it today… What’s up???
That’s because we are all pointing our fingers at you and laughing.
Yes when people look foolish and can’t string together a coherent message that’s about all they you fruits do is laugh…..
Doggone/GA
February 11th, 2013
3:45 pm
“For example — The civil rights. You can’t say, “I’m going to let Black people drink from this fountain for 30 years”; then all of sudden take it away from them.
Life doesn’t work like that.”
You’re wrong on that. Life DOES work like that. The reason for laws like “Black people can’t drink from this fountain” is because they DID drink from that fountain and someone didn’t like it…so it was TAKEN AWAY from them.
Happens ALL the time.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 11th, 2013
3:45 pm
No one has ever taken this court to determine if it was
Japanese soldiers prosecuted by US for torture (waterboarding) say what?
Oscar
February 11th, 2013
3:45 pm
Most corporations are cutting out their pensions and going with 401K plans. Fderal government should do the sme Spot all future pensions. W don’t have the money to pay them. That is one problem with the post ofice. Can’t pay its pnsions.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 11th, 2013
3:46 pm
That’s your opinion sport.
Actually it is the opinion of Malcolm Nance, former Master Instructor and Chief of Training at the US Navy Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape School (SERE) in San Diego, California and I’ll take his opinion over yours any day of the week and twice on Sunday, sport.
Doggone/GA
February 11th, 2013
3:47 pm
“That is one problem with the post ofice. Can’t pay its pnsions.”
that isn’t correct. The problem is that the Post Office is REQUIRE BY LAW to “prefund” their pension for 75 years – which NO other government system is required to do.
http://blog.syracuse.com/opinion/2013/02/congress_created_this_mess_for.html
Itchy Finger
February 11th, 2013
3:47 pm
If water boarding has been determined by you libs to be torture then why didn’t Bush get impeached?
Corbin Sharpe. I think, therefore I am...I think.
February 11th, 2013
3:48 pm
Well Itchy,
I do like having you around…you are good for my morale. No matter how bad things get for me, at least I can always say, “At least I’m not Itchy”…and I feel better…
getalife
February 11th, 2013
3:48 pm
They had the American sniper funeral at Cowboy stadium.
That story has a tragic ending.
War is hell.
UNCLE SAMANTHA
February 11th, 2013
3:49 pm
waterboarding top level terrorist by bush – bad
KILLING WOMEN AND CHILDREN WITH DRONES – GOOD
shame on you libs
Itchy Finger
February 11th, 2013
3:49 pm
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 11th, 2013
3:46 pm
That’s your opinion sport.
Actually it is the opinion of Malcolm Nance, former Master Instructor and Chief of Training at the US Navy Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape School (SERE) in San Diego, California and I’ll take his opinion over yours any day of the week and twice on Sunday, sport.
Well dang sport! Bush should have been impeached then since this one guy thought it was torture…
Doggone/GA
February 11th, 2013
3:51 pm
“If water boarding has been determined by you libs to be torture then why didn’t Bush get impeached?”
And who did Bush waterboard? And it isn’t “you libs” who determined that. We tried and convicted people after WW2 for using waterboarding as torture. You don’t agree? Take it up with the experts who agree it IS torture.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 11th, 2013
3:51 pm
If water boarding has been determined by you libs to be torture then why didn’t Bush get impeached?
A rather clownish retort that suffices to demonstrate that that particular poster has cluelessly confused legal determination with political issues regarding prosecution. A person may violate law and yet not be prosecuted for a number of reasons. That does not mean that the law was not violated. But considering the source and the ODS, not surprising.
barking frog
February 11th, 2013
3:51 pm
getalife
They had the American sniper funeral at Cowboy stadium.
That story has a tragic ending.
War is hell.
………………………………………………………………….
actually he did o.k. in war, it’s the firing ranges that are dangerous.
Doggone/GA
February 11th, 2013
3:52 pm
“KILLING WOMEN AND CHILDREN WITH DRONES – GOOD”
But killing women and children in a country that never attacked us, and was no threat to us is just fine with you.
shame on you
Itchy Finger
February 11th, 2013
3:52 pm
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes:
Jose Rodriguez Defends Enhanced Interrogation… And he was in charge of the operation sport….
Itchy Finger
February 11th, 2013
3:53 pm
Doggone/GA:
He was the President. Remember back then the buck stopped with the President… Of course its different now….
Regnad Kcin
February 11th, 2013
3:55 pm
“Waterboarding is torture, sport.
That’s your opinion sport. No one has ever taken this court to determine if it was. Using drones to kill people without evidence is murder sport….
=============
If pigs had wings, they’s be pigeons, sport.
This has been another episode of non sequiter theater…
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
February 11th, 2013
3:56 pm
Except you both are missing the part where, like the vast majority of times, you DONT come up with the next best drug since sliced bread, and Merck pays you a salary anyway… .for years and years.
this is the last time I’m going to broach this subject; because frankly, it’s taking away from the subject on the blog …………….but…………………..
Please look up these words in your local dictionary:
EXAMPLE, COMPARISON, CONTRAST, SAMPLE, STEROTYPE, PROTOTYPE.
DebbiDoRight and your example of exploitation is laughable, and shows just how little the both of you know about capitalism.
DDR’s explanation of capitalism and how it works:
See pimps and h**es.
Pimp — Provides the ladies with a place to stay, food, drugs, and water to bathe.
The h##es provide the pimp with money, cars, and more women to exploit.
Capitalism 101.
getalife
February 11th, 2013
3:56 pm
frog,
True and he died doing what he loved.
Itchy Finger
February 11th, 2013
3:58 pm
Using drones to kill Americans with no evidence is murder… Why can’t you libs simply admit it???
barking frog
February 11th, 2013
4:00 pm
getalife
,True and he died doing what he loved.
…………………………………………………….
I understand he was trying to help a friend who shot him.
UNCLE SAMANTHA
February 11th, 2013
4:00 pm
SHAME ON LIBERALS
women/children killers
at least CONSERVATIVES only want children to drink dirty water and breath dirty air and only want women to use coat hangers………….
barking frog
February 11th, 2013
4:02 pm
Itchy Finger
Using drones to kill Americans with no evidence is murder… Why can’t you libs simply admit it???
…………………………………………………………………………………..
It is abundantly clear that you do understand evidence or murder.
Regnad Kcin
February 11th, 2013
4:02 pm
“Using drones to kill Americans with no evidence is murder… Why can’t you libs simply admit it???”
The key phrase being “no evidence.” Gotta link? To one of your “murders” with “no evidence?”
Itchy Finger
February 11th, 2013
4:02 pm
This is a great example of how out of touch liberals are from reality….
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/02/11/pelosi-false-argument-to-say-washington-has-spending-problem/
Itchy Finger
February 11th, 2013
4:03 pm
barking frog
Itchy Finger
Using drones to kill Americans with no evidence is murder… Why can’t you libs simply admit it???
…………………………………………………………………………………..
It is abundantly clear that you did not read the memo’s
Itchy Finger
February 11th, 2013
4:05 pm
Regnad Kcin:
There’s plenty of links… Google is your friend….
http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/Obama-drones-terror-bush/2013/02/07/id/489365
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
February 11th, 2013
4:06 pm
You’re wrong on that. Life DOES work like that. The reason for laws like “Black people can’t drink from this fountain” is because they DID drink from that fountain and someone didn’t like it…so it was TAKEN AWAY from them. Happens ALL the time.
Let me rephrase what i said earlier — was typing fast and when I looked back, saw where the error was made.
Here goes:
ONCE you’ve past legislation that outlaws an unjust law, THEN try to rescind that law; it would be nearly impossible to do.
For instance — The Civil Rights Legislation, or whatever its called, which gave blacks/minorities in america equal rights; OR the 19th Ammend; that gave women the right to vote. Once you’ve set that precedent and given these rights, it wouldn’t be easy trying to TAKE THOSE RIGHTS AWAY.
There.
That should be a bit more clear.
Jefferson
February 11th, 2013
4:06 pm
full of crap
Oscar
February 11th, 2013
4:06 pm
Killing in self defense is not murder. All a question of proof. Proven after the fact.
barking frog
February 11th, 2013
4:06 pm
Itchy Finger
It is abundantly clear that you did not read the memo’s.
…………………………………………………………..
tell me what they said.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 11th, 2013
4:07 pm
Jose Rodriguez Defends Enhanced Interrogation…
And I will be meeting Ilary Blasi at the Holiday Inn Express tonight at 8:00
pogo
February 11th, 2013
4:07 pm
getalife, if he tries to capitalize on this it will make him a target for Islamic extremists. He can really do nothing at all but live with it. Besides, are you for people capitalizing on killing? Should anyone be?
UNCLE SAMANTHA
February 11th, 2013
4:08 pm
regnad kcin
SHAME ON THE LIBERAL DENIERS
http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/25/world/asia/pakistan-us-drone-strikes
(CNN) — U.S. drone strikes in Pakistan have killed far more people than the United States has acknowledged, have traumatized innocent residents and largely been ineffective, according to a new study released Tuesday.
The study by Stanford Law School and New York University’s School of Law calls for a re-evaluation of the practice, saying the number of “high-level” targets killed as a percentage of total casualties is extremely low — about 2%.
Common Sense isn't very Common
February 11th, 2013
4:09 pm
DDR
3:56 pm
That’s one of the many reasons we love you
AmericaShrugged
February 11th, 2013
4:09 pm
Enhanced interogation is a good thing, it probably saves lives.
Shooter volunteered and in return received pay and benefits. It was an arms length transaction like any other job.
Some of you may have forgotten that the 9/11 victims families got compensated in return for an agreement not to sue the airlines. It wasn’t about the famly’s loss at the hands of terrorists; it was about the alternative being crippling or possibly bankrupting the airlines. It had more in commomn with the GM bailout than the shooter’s situation.
Oscar
February 11th, 2013
4:10 pm
The memo’s in effect said we could kill in defense of out country.
Aquagirl
February 11th, 2013
4:11 pm
Using drones to kill Americans with no evidence is murder… Why can’t you libs simply admit it???
Less than two pages on the busted-up SEAL and our cons are bored already…there’s the thanks of a grateful nation.
Common Sense isn't very Common
February 11th, 2013
4:12 pm
DDR
now you want to give women the right to VOTE, HELL NO
Itchy Finger
February 11th, 2013
4:12 pm
Sorry jay but this wasn’t a good idea writing about this. Your die hard followers have no clue how to even argue a topic such as this….
Itchy Finger
February 11th, 2013
4:13 pm
Oscar:
And it says with no evidence…..
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 11th, 2013
4:13 pm
Enhanced interogation[sic] is a good thing, it probably saves lives.
Not according to Malcolm Nance.
Enhanced interrogation?
Are you too squishy to say torture?
indigo
February 11th, 2013
4:14 pm
Itchy Finger, Uncle Samantha
These terrorists we’ve killed would not have hesitated for a second to smuggle nuclear weapons into America and kill you.
Since you must know this, its clear there is nothing at all in your protestings but pure political anti-Obama rantings.
Itchy Finger
February 11th, 2013
4:15 pm
Oscar:
The “white paper”, obtained by NBC News, states that Americans and others can be targeted if they are believed to be “senior operational leaders” of al-Qaida or “an associated force,” even if there is no evidence that they are engaged in an active plot to attack American interests.
Oscar
February 11th, 2013
4:15 pm
Finger – No, tht’s not what it says . Better read it again.
UNCLE SAMANTHA
February 11th, 2013
4:16 pm
LIBS HAVE NO PROOF OF ANY DEATHS BY WATERBOARDING
THEN STICK THEIR HEADS IN THE OIL-SPILL INFESTED SAND ABOUT DEATHS FROM DRONES
obama gets the nobel peace prize for KILLING CHILDREN
and carter gets the nobel peace prize for providing the arms for indonesia to committ genocide in EAST TIMOR
the shame aint the same… just deflect the blame…. thats the liberal game…..
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
February 11th, 2013
4:16 pm
now you want to give women the right to VOTE, HELL NO
Common — it’ll be easier, and probably safer, taking cake from a fat kid, than trying to mess with a woman’s rights.
ESPECIALLY american women. Some of carry guns. And we know how to use them!
=========
Kam – Are you too squishy to say torture?
Yep.
Paul
February 11th, 2013
4:17 pm
Pretty somber, Jay. That and your 3:15. Somber.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 11th, 2013
4:17 pm
LIBS HAVE NO PROOF OF ANY DEATHS BY WATERBOARDING
WATERBOARDING IS TORTURE REGARDLESS OF WHETHER OR NOT DEATH OCCURS, SPORT.
Itchy Finger
February 11th, 2013
4:17 pm
indigo:
I agree with you. Its all about politics and exposing the double standard. The left demonized Bush for dunking someone in water but remain silent about obama killing people with no evidence…
Erwin's cat
February 11th, 2013
4:18 pm
EXAMPLE, COMPARISON, CONTRAST, SAMPLE, STEROTYPE, PROTOTYPE.
VAGUE, UNRELATED, GERMANE, RELEVANT, MEANINGLESS, IMMATERIAL
Itchy Finger
February 11th, 2013
4:18 pm
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes:
And where are those court documents where it was ruled torture. I can’t seem to find them sport….
UNCLE SAMANTHA
February 11th, 2013
4:18 pm
indigo
February 11th, 2013
4:14 pm
Itchy Finger, Uncle Samantha
These terrorists we’ve killed would not have hesitated for a second to smuggle nuclear weapons into America and kill you.
================================================================
liberalism at work
calling the women and children killed by drones TERRORISTS THAT WOULD SMUGGLE NUCLEAR WEAPONS is low
they were innocent ………. never had the chance to drink dirty water or breath dirty air
more shameful blamefule deflection
blame the vicitims
Moderate Line
February 11th, 2013
4:19 pm
Whether there is enough evidence or not is a matter of opinion which is why we have juries and judges in courts to determine such thing. The burden of proof is much less when all that is required is the opinion of high ranking intelligence official vs a judge and jury.
However, if you’re claiming he or she was a military attacks then you goal is not to prove “substantial evidence” which is what I thought the defenders of the drone attacks had been claiming. The goal is then to prove he or she was a military target according to international law.
Also, note it is not the libs with the double standard. Most liberals are calling for more transparency on this issue. It is merely the partisan apologist who are defending Obama.
One of the problems that people have with these attacks is the military has policy and procedures to ensure that international laws are being followed.
Dunwoody Granny
February 11th, 2013
4:19 pm
DDR –
Okay, fine, I’m willing to establish precedent.
In this case, and in every future case in which the US gov’t establishes a $25M bounty on someone, and that someone eventually winds up being picked off by the US military thanks to extraordinary work by a handful of CIA agents, the CIA agents and the military members on the mission get to divide the $25M. Just for doing their jobs. Because occasionally someone does a job that’s actually worth a bonus.
Football players get paid for showing up at the weekly game. They get extra for going to the Super Bowl. Even more if they win the Super Bowl.
Again I say: the circumstances of this case were extraordinary. The actions of these people were exemplary. That’s in no way meant to take away from the service of the ordinary soldier, the ordinary CIA analyst, the ordinary firefighter or police officer or working stiff. It’s just that this was the Super Bowl and these people stepped up.
Itchy Finger
February 11th, 2013
4:20 pm
Oscar:
Can you read?
Common Sense isn't very Common
February 11th, 2013
4:20 pm
DDR
Just for you. You don’t have the right equipment
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hz9AEJYCKrg
East Lake Ira
February 11th, 2013
4:21 pm
Somebody change Itchy already, it’s starting to really smell in here.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 11th, 2013
4:22 pm
And where are those court documents where it was ruled torture. I can’t seem to find them sport….
Already answered at 3:45 p.m.
Maybe one of your class mates will lend you their notes since you aren’t paying attention in class.
UNCLE SAMANTHA
February 11th, 2013
4:22 pm
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 11th, 2013
4:17 pm
LIBS HAVE NO PROOF OF ANY DEATHS BY WATERBOARDING
WATERBOARDING IS TORTURE REGARDLESS OF WHETHER OR NOT DEATH OCCURS, SPORT.
===============================================================
is DEATH BY DRONE ATTACK then TORTURE?
or just MURDER?
or just liberal SPORT where everyone is a WINNER?
whiner
Brosephus™
February 11th, 2013
4:23 pm
Oscar @ 3:45
Google FERS and TSP. What you’re asking for was started in 1987 during the Reagan administration. The issues with the post office is due to the requirement that they prepay billions to their pension fund when nobody else has such a requirement.
Doggone/GA
February 11th, 2013
4:24 pm
“He was the President. Remember back then the buck stopped with the President… Of course its different now”
Nope, it isn’t. An impeachment proceding still has to meet the Constitutional requirements and just because he was President does not meet that requirement. Now, if he personally approved the use of torture…that would be a different story, but even then, a case has to be brought. No case before Congress, no impeachment.
Doggone/GA
February 11th, 2013
4:24 pm
“Using drones to kill Americans with no evidence is murder… Why can’t you libs simply admit it???”
Because you can’t admit a lie
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 11th, 2013
4:24 pm
is DEATH BY DRONE ATTACK then TORTURE?
NO
THIS HAS BEEN ANOTHER EPISODE OF ONE WORD ANSWERS TO A SIMPLE(TON’S) QUESTION.