Liberal critics of drone-warfare standards are simply wrong
In a secret 16-page “white paper” leaked to NBC, Justice Department lawyers have laid out an argument attempting to justify the president’s decision to launch drone attacks even against overseas terrorist leaders who are U.S. citizens.
According to authors of that memo, that presidential authority is derived from “his constitutional responsibility to protect the country, the inherent right of the United States to national self-defense under international law, Congress’s authorization of the use of all necessary and appropriate military force against this enemy, and the existence of an armed conflict with al-Qaida under international law.”
The document also explains the standards implemented by the current administration in using that authority. It concludes that such strikes are legal when:
– The targeted individual is “a senior operational leader of al Qaida or an associated force of al Qaida — that is, an al Qaida leader actively engaged in planning operations to kill Americans.”
– “… an informed, high-level official of the US government has determined that the targeted individual poses an imminent threat of violent attack against the U.S.”
– The capture of the individual located in a foreign country is deemed “infeasible.”
It’s important to point out that this is not a theoretical exercise. President Obama has used this life-and-death authority to order a successful drone strike against Anwar al-Alwaki, a U.S. citizen who became a top regional leader for Al Qaida in Yemen, where arresting him was impossible.
Among other plots, Al-Awlaki helped plan the attempted airliner bombing on Christmas Day in 2009, as well as two attempted cargo-plane bombings using plastic explosives. As a recruiter for al Qaida, he also encouraged the attack by Major Nidal Hasan that killed 13 U.S. soldiers at Fort Hood, Texas.
In the video below, Al-Awlaki makes his loyalties and his intentions quite clear:
“We have chosen the path of war in order to defend ourselves against your oppression,” he says, in one of many damning statements. “God willing, we will continue in this war and you will find us persistent.”
In his particular case, God was not willing. Al-Alwaki died in a drone attack in Yemen on Sept. 30, 2011.
Personally, I have no problem whatsoever with launching such an attack. His citizenship does not outweigh the threat that he clearly posed to the security of this country. Others, however, have expressed deep concern about what they see as a violation of al-Alwaki’s right to legal due process, and about an unconstitutional, even radical expansion of executive powers.
You will sometimes run across a half-hearted version of that critique coming from conservatives, but it is hard to take such complaints seriously. If you doubt that conclusion, imagine what conservative critics would be saying if the Obama administration had announced that it would NOT target known al Qaida leaders out of deference to due process concerns.
The howling would be epic.
On the other hand, those liberals who take issue with the policy tend to be sincere and serious about it, to the point of near-hysteria.
In Salon, for example, columnist David Sirota claims that in the leaked white paper, the White House has asserted the radical power to kill citizens “without any concrete intelligence suggesting a citizen is linked to terrorist activity” (emphasis original). It is a claim that he repeats throughout the column, asserting that “evidence is not required to kill someone,” that “the president doesn’t actually need evidence to order someone’s death” and that “not a single shred of actual evidence is needed not just to prosecute (the target), but to outright execute him.”
Here’s the section of the memo on which Sirota bases that charge:
“The condition that an operational leader present an ‘imminent’ threat of violent attack against the United States does not require the United States to have clear evidence that a specific attack on U.S. persons and interests will take place in the immediate future. Given the nature of, for example, the terrorist attacks on September 11, in which civilian airliners were hijacked to strike the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, this definition of imminence, which would require the United States to refrain from action until preparations for an attack are concluded, would not allow the United States sufficient time to defend itself.”
The memo states that the president doesn’t need evidence of a particular, specific plot being hatched in the immediate future in order to take action against an al Qaida leader. That’s a far cry from “not a single shred of actual evidence is needed.”
And again, the case of al-Alwaki offers a useful example. Given what we already knew about his actions, and given his own public testimony, we did not need evidence of a specific new plot in the immediate future to justify taking action against him. We knew more than enough already.
Glenn Greenwald, writing in The Guardian, takes a tack similar to Sirota, accusing the administration of obviating a citizen’s constitutional right to due process before his life can be taken by his government.
Like Sirota, he writes:
“Specifically, the president’s assassination power ‘does not require that the US have clear evidence that a specific attack . . . will take place in the immediate future’. The US routinely assassinates its targets not when they are engaged in or plotting attacks but when they are at home, with family members, riding in a car, at work, at funerals, rescuing other drone victims, etc. ”
I’m not sure what that last sentence is intended to communicate. Are bank robbers only to be arrested in the actual act of robbing the bank?
That aside, here’s the most basic problem with the criticisms raised by Sirota, Greenwald and others: What is the cure?
If you do not want “an informed, high-level official of the US government,” i.e., the president and commander in chief, to determine whether a “targeted individual poses an imminent threat of violent attack against the U.S.,” to whom would you give that authority?
By casting it as a question of due process, you necessarily invest that full power in the judiciary. You would require a judge or panel of judges to decide from the bench whether it is operationally plausible to capture rather than kill this particular terrorist in this particular country. A judge or judges would have to balance a citizen’s right to due process against the threat of an attack imminent enough to justify military intervention.
No judge is capable of such a decision. On what legal basis could such judgments be based? The answer is none. No reasonable judge would want the power or responsibility to make such national security judgments.
This is not wiretapping, a field in which judges have years of legal training, decades of experience and centuries of constitutional precedent to fall back upon. This cuts to the core of the commander in chief’s duty, and I do not believe for one second that the Founding Fathers envisioned giving judges the power to make such decisions. Giving judges that kind of power and responsibility would make a joke of the separation of powers and seriously damage the security of this country.
– Jay Bookman
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497 comments Add your comment
Oscar
February 5th, 2013
8:21 pm
I will wait to get an AK 15 after the bubble brusst. Prices too high now.
Brosephus™
February 5th, 2013
8:21 pm
brocephus you are an angry young man.
Yeah, right…. Coming from the blog’s version of a “Ritalin kid”, I seriously doubt that nobody here beyond yourself actually believes a word that you say. You can’t even stay on one topic more than 5 minutes. I know speed junkies that can focus better than you.
Instead of trying to jump into every conversation to prove how ignorant you are, why not focus on actually learning something about one or two topics and only chiming in when those are brought up? Just a suggestion for you…
TBS
February 5th, 2013
8:22 pm
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=shelby+cobra+replica
If I purchase one of these cars, do I now own a Shelby Cobra?
Brosephus™
February 5th, 2013
8:23 pm
TBS
Using keith’s logic, I’d say yeah….
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
February 5th, 2013
8:24 pm
Oscar
February 5th, 2013
8:18 pm
Nothing can be further from the truth. Wait til you get a load of the division that may arise from the far left who have thought Guantanomo was the root of all evil…
Of course despite sentiment to the contrary, many liberals will simply study the talking points and all the sudden get completely comfortable with indiscriminant death from the sky..
keith
February 5th, 2013
8:25 pm
The kid is trying to say if you modify an AK-47 to legally import it into the country it stops being an AK-47. Tell that crap to the Feinstein crowd that keep waving them around screaming AK-47s kill.
I guess I would call it a modified AK-47. Still an AK-47 regardless. Feinstein would be all over brocephus and his stupidity.
barking frog
February 5th, 2013
8:25 pm
Johnny Reb
In no case is it OK for our Country to take the life of a US Citizen without due process
………………………………………………………………
How many ‘Johnny Rebs’ were killed by US soldiers without due process ?
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
February 5th, 2013
8:25 pm
Brosephus™
February 5th, 2013
8:21 pm
Gee BRO, I didn’t realize you were such an angry man:-)
This topic makes me angry, disappointed, ashamed and mislead.
Soothsayer
February 5th, 2013
8:25 pm
BTW, for those with the intestinal fortitude, this is a great time to short the market. It doesn’t really matter which one: DJIA, S&P, FTSE, DAX. They’re all ready to tumble. They’ve been defying gravity much too long now. You heard it here first.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 5th, 2013
8:27 pm
This topic makes me angry, disappointed, ashamed and mislead.
Exactly like a guest on the Jerry Springer show.
TBS
February 5th, 2013
8:27 pm
Sooth
Not sure how far it will go down, but a correction is probably due.
keith
February 5th, 2013
8:28 pm
TBS, Cant you read? Brocephus just posted they modify AK-47s to import them here. He didnt say they are copying them, he said they modify them. BIG DIFFERENCE. If you have a manual transmission in a Cobra and you modify it to automatic its STILL a Cobra. Get it now son?
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
February 5th, 2013
8:28 pm
Soothsayer
February 5th, 2013
8:25 pm
Yup..I bet the crooks at Goldman Sachs are busy shorting the very products they sell clients…deja vous…probably making sure politicians of all flavors are getting a taste as well..
Soothsayer
February 5th, 2013
8:28 pm
I would also be LONG gold right now. Great contrarian play. They can’t short it forever. I’m betting $2,500 by mid-year. $3,000 by year end.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
February 5th, 2013
8:30 pm
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 5th, 2013
8:27 pm
Wow, there’s Kamchak with something more brilliant to say. You still working on the Philosophy textbook? Hope that is going along nicely.
moonbat betty
February 5th, 2013
8:30 pm
Sooth,
you should go to Vegas for March Madness.
BIG $$.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 5th, 2013
8:31 pm
In no case is it OK for our Country to take the life of a US Citizen without due process
But locking US Citizens away without trial or due process for any number of years or even life is okay with the cons.
keith
February 5th, 2013
8:33 pm
I guess if brocephus and oscar think that if you have a manual transmission in a Plymouth Cuda, modify it by installing an automatic transmission it ceases to being a Cuda. What logic. LMAO.
Liberals language for their 47%
February 5th, 2013
8:33 pm
Let’s see — Obama rebranded the “war on terror” phrase to “Overseas Contingency Operations” then to “Countering Violent Extremism”; “taxes” became “revenues”; “tax increases” became “revenue positive”; “increase taxes on the rich” became “letting the Bush tax cuts expire”; “government spending” became “investing”; “earmarks” and “pork-barrel spending” became “congressionally directed spending”; “Stimulus” became “job creation”; etc…and now….
…wait for it….
“I hope no one uses the term illegal immigrants here today. Our citizens are not — the people in this country are not illegal. They are are out of status. They are new Americans that are immigrants,” said Rep. John Conyers Jr., Michigan Democrat.
Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/inside-politics/2013/feb/5/top-democrat-warns-against-using-term-illegal-immi/#ixzz2K4ulmZRi
moonbat betty
February 5th, 2013
8:34 pm
In no case is it OK for our Country to take the life of a US Citizen without due process,
that’s why we all need as chip in our head.
So they can identify us.
keith
February 5th, 2013
8:34 pm
can you just imagine oscar and brocephus going to barret jackson? they would get run off.
Paul
February 5th, 2013
8:35 pm
Season premier of Smash on tonight.
Some of you will feel better watching that than reading this.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
February 5th, 2013
8:37 pm
Seems that the WH is regretting that whole sequester thingy. He wants to avoid cuts in our military now that he has had a chance to flex his 700 bln dollar toy…
Just itching, like Bush, to shoot off some of those toys in the name of peace and national security…Al Queda is about as much threat to our shores and the WMD’s in Iraq…
Thomas Heyward Jr
February 5th, 2013
8:40 pm
BUT………..and in closing,
considering the way that Obama throws a baseball…..AND…………considering progressives in general…………I CAN understand how a pimply-faced sixteen year old AMERICAN BOY (searching for his Pa) could be percieved as a Threat.
.
Not a National security threat…………but just a threat.
.
It’s a shame he was murdered, but MY conscious is clear.
.
Sorry Obama-Bots.
Maybe one day……….yours will be too.
.
Liberals language for their 47% @8:33
February 5th, 2013
8:45 pm
Drat — I’m missed the PC warm and fuzzy term from the stellar liberal universities —
Academics, searching for a more neutral term, have recently begun using “unauthorized migrants” as their phrase of choice.
Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/inside-politics/2013/feb/5/top-democrat-warns-against-using-term-illegal-immi/#ixzz2K4xlwsH4
Moderate Line
February 5th, 2013
8:48 pm
Jay
February 5th, 2013
5:19 pm
“Keep in mind he was in custody twice after Ft. Hood. Once in the US and once in Yemen.”
Do you have a cite for that claim, Moderate? The Fort Hood shooting was 2009; my understanding is al Alwaki went underground in 2006-07.
+++++
My error. He was detained in in 2002 in the US and released in Yemen in 2007.
However, your statements concerning Ft Hood seem to imply he was involved.
From the NYTimes:
The officials said the Departments of Defense and Justice had decided Major Hasan would be prosecuted in a military court, an indication that investigators believe he acted alone. Government lawyers had said his case might be tried in civilian court if he were believed to have conspired with nonmilitary defendants.
In a statement, the Federal Bureau of Investigation said, “At this point, there is no information to indicate Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan had any co-conspirators or was part of a broader terrorist plot.” The statement concluded that “because the content of the communications was explainable by his research and nothing else was found,” investigators decided “that Major Hasan was not involved in terrorist activities or terrorist planning.”
The more I read the more interesting this gets.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 5th, 2013
8:52 pm
keith:
“The kid is trying to say if you modify an AK-47 to legally import it into the country it stops being an AK-47. Tell that crap to the Feinstein crowd that keep waving them around screaming AK-47s kill.
I guess I would call it a modified AK-47. Still an AK-47 regardless. Feinstein would be all over brocephus and his stupidity.”
THANK YOU …………. except my law enforcement brother in arms is not “stupid” ……… he’s just playing the sematics game to save face.
bman.
February 5th, 2013
8:52 pm
i guess it’s probably some top-secret thing, but i wonder how many drones the U.S. has. 100’s? 1000’s?
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 5th, 2013
8:53 pm
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/
Step right up and “backorder” your AK-47 semi-auto assault rifle !!!
Curious Observer
February 5th, 2013
8:54 pm
I am convinced that if Jesus Christ returned to earth in all His glory and walked hand-in-hand with Obama, the hard-core Republicans here would label both as extreme liberals unworthy of any respect.
Recon 0311 2533
February 5th, 2013
8:57 pm
Well we have the stupids who’re sooo against enhanced interrogations and now accept evaporating U.S. citizens with hell fire drone hits. Yes,stupids I believe wherever we identify those who wish to do harm to America we must neutralize them, however, if they possess actionable intelligence we should make every effort to capture and extract whatever intel they have by any means.
Recon 0311 2533
February 5th, 2013
9:03 pm
Curious Observer, must be curiously hallucinating.
Brosephus™
February 5th, 2013
9:04 pm
keith
You just can’t leave well enough alone, huh? Why don’t you go import a Ferrari engine, put it in a Ford Festiva, and brag to some car collectors about your new bad assed Ferrari. Basically, what you own is a modified AK-47 receiver with some other aftermarket parts bolted on to look like a real AK. If it helps you to sleep at night by calling your rifle an AK, then don’t let me take the wind out of your sail.
You claim that I’m angry, yet you can’t stop trying to defend yourself long after I left to give my child a bath. If you knew you were right and I was wrong, you wouldn’t feel the need to defend yourself in my absence. You can outwardly lie, but your subconscious mind won’t allow you to believe the lies.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 5th, 2013
9:06 pm
Let’s see — Obama rebranded the…
Frank Luntz says, “What?”
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 5th, 2013
9:12 pm
Old man yells “stupids” at clouds. His diaper change at 9:15.
Straitroad
February 5th, 2013
9:12 pm
Jay, you are officially drinking the koolaid. You would be howling like a werewolf if we were dealing with a republican administration. It’s sad to see you contort yourself into a position that allows you to justify this policy.
moonbat betty
February 5th, 2013
9:17 pm
geez,
those liberal bass faces are a little angry!!
RUN!
Recon 0311 2533
February 5th, 2013
9:18 pm
Keep up the poor fight can’t even tell time. The azz of the far-left.
Brosephus™
February 5th, 2013
9:18 pm
THANK YOU …………. except my law enforcement brother in arms is not “stupid” ……… he’s just playing the sematics game to save face.
Not playing the semantics game, but thanks for the support anyway. Most every military rifle has a different designation for the civilian version. Civilians can’t buy M4’s, but they can buy an AR-15. The military uses a Barrett M107A1 rifle, but the civilian designation is the M82A1. The AK-47 does not have such a designation, so just simply using that name does not denote whether it’s a true AK-47 (military version) or a civilian replica. It’s not semantics, and I’m sure any serious collector would tell you the same thing. I’m sure you’re aware of that though.
Jackie
February 5th, 2013
9:19 pm
Killing an American citizen without due process is wrong!
What does it hurt to chase him/her down and try to bring them back to the USA for trial.
After all, our law is based on innocent until proven guilty.
moonbat betty
February 5th, 2013
9:19 pm
Recon,
he’s just waiting to change your latrine….
Brosephus™
February 5th, 2013
9:23 pm
The kid is trying to say if you modify an AK-47 to legally import it into the country it stops being an AK-47. Tell that crap to the Feinstein crowd that keep waving them around screaming AK-47s kill.
WHen you start flinging names and stuff, that’s usually the white flag that you’ve lost the debate. They modify AK-47 RECEIVERS to import to the US, not the whole gun. Geez, for someone who claims to own one, you obviously don’t know much about it. Simply having the receiver itself does not equate to owning the complete gun.
Why don’t you talk to Feinstein as I don’t give a flying rat’s ass what she’s going around saying. I don’t have to vote for her, nor does she represent me in any shape, form, or fashion.
I probably shouldn’t have ever tried to engage you in a debate. People always say to never debate with a fool as they will drag you down to their level and beat you with their experience. Here I was thinking you were a knowledgable gun owner.
Recon 0311 2533
February 5th, 2013
9:25 pm
moonbat betty,
He or she’s, been stuck in a one, two three trench from the beginning.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 5th, 2013
9:26 pm
Well looks like the old man yelling at clouds just admitted he wears diapers.
godless heathen - owner of many things he does not need
February 5th, 2013
9:28 pm
Let’s roll two issues into one. Balance the budget and drone terrorists.
I understand that the drones are piloted from a secure location in Kansas. I expect that a person with average motor skills and a history of video gaming could operate the critical functions after a couple of hours of sim time.
Why don’t we offer well-healed patriotic Americans the opportunity to drone a terrorist (suspected) for a hefty fee? What would people pay for the chance to kill an insurgent? There could be a price scale. Regular terrorist $100K. Al Queda operative $150K. Al Queda 2nd in command (there seems to be an endless supply of those) $500K.
We could make a reality show out of it and sell advertising.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 5th, 2013
9:29 pm
Brosephus:
I hear you but I still say it’s semantics.
For example, you can have a .223 hunting rifle that will take a 30 round magazine vs. a .223 AR-15 that will do the same thing. One is a hunting rifle and the other is an “assault weapon” simply because it LOOKS ugly/military vs. what it does.
Semantics.
moonbat betty
February 5th, 2013
9:30 pm
Keep.
Seek help.
Please…
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 5th, 2013
9:30 pm
Maybe terrorists should wear better helmets like the NFL ??
Recon 0311 2533
February 5th, 2013
9:31 pm
I think someone smells, sucks and wears diapers. Yes, it’s the old man who pretends to be a young man.
guy
February 5th, 2013
9:33 pm
keith, never,ever trust a liberal. I think you smell a rat too as far as this issue is concerned.
TaxPayer
February 5th, 2013
9:35 pm
Ok. Cons should have the right to bear .223 bolt action hunting rifles with thirty round clips.
getalife
February 5th, 2013
9:35 pm
Once again, this is not a con echo chamber.
Go to bed cons.
You can lie and call names for your failed pols in the morning.
Marty Huggins'
February 5th, 2013
9:40 pm
So jay is for the destruction of due process.
Also he makes it clear that in his world conservatives are only faking their criticism while democrats are being completely honest in their concerns.
What a joke Jay.
How arrogant of you to claim to know what is in people’s hearts.
What if the person who decides is wrong Jay?
I mean with how well our intel has been lately seems like the channels of communication are wide open and there are no gaps nor confusion within our intel gathering agencies. Right.
So why not put the faith in one person to decide who deserve to attempt to capture and give a trial as opposed to who we just kill.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 5th, 2013
9:40 pm
Brosephus:
For example …………. these are BAR’s (Browning Automatic Rifles).
Now we know it’s not the BAR of WWII and they’re not “automatic” but semi-automatic.
But ……………. Browning calls them BAR’s ! Same thing with the AK’s …………….
)
http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/finder.asp?f1=002B
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 5th, 2013
9:42 pm
We won WWII with an 8 round clip.
moonbat betty
February 5th, 2013
9:42 pm
getalife,
duck, and hope you don’t get caught, lib.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 5th, 2013
9:42 pm
he’s just waiting to change your latrine….
I believe that you were red-carded for suggesting that someone put their head in a toilet, and now you’re talking about latrines.
You have a toilet fixation.
Seek help.
Please…
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 5th, 2013
9:43 pm
The budget deficit is projected to shrink to $845 billion this year and $435 billion next year. That’s got to hurt them ODS inflicted.
moonbat betty
February 5th, 2013
9:44 pm
Kamchak,
Please quit eating the yellow snow.
geez…..
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 5th, 2013
9:46 pm
Please quit eating the yellow snow.
Thanks for proving my point.
Seek help.
Please…
Oscar
February 5th, 2013
9:48 pm
I vote we quit talking about assault weapons or hunting rifles,etc and talk about functions that should or should not be banned.
Issue iss whether weapons should be restricted to number of rounds they hol. N
Drop the sematics.
Recon 0311 2533
February 5th, 2013
9:48 pm
Most people who own AR’s do so as collectors or those who enjoy target shooting. My SR 556 sits in my locked safe until I take it to the range about twice a year. My home protection is a 12 gauge 870 tactical Remington and a .45 Springfield XD
oldguy
February 5th, 2013
9:49 pm
I love it!
Jay uses “Liberal…Standards…..and wrong” in the same sentence.
In the words of our newest gay marine “Well surprise…surprise!”
How dare they question the wisdom of the omnipotent one (he that shall not be named).
Duel on Libs.!
Oscar
February 5th, 2013
9:51 pm
Let the sequester begin. The cuts will take effect slowly over the next year. We will have a minor resession but will live over it. Most of us. Deaths by suicide go up during resessions. And as unemployment rates go up.
oldguy
February 5th, 2013
9:54 pm
Woopie!!
We are going to only go another $845 Billion in debt this year!
That’s about like saying “I’m happy as hell, I only lost a foot in the accident instead of a leg!”
Woopie!…..Woopie!
Uh Huh... The penalty for Patriotic Treason is death
February 5th, 2013
9:59 pm
@oldguy
February 5th, 2013
9:54 pm
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Consider yourself blessed.
getalife
February 5th, 2013
9:59 pm
I will duel you.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 5th, 2013
10:01 pm
getalife
http://ringofsteel.org/reference/irishcode.html
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 5th, 2013
10:02 pm
Oscar @ 9:48
Now you’re catching on !
The debate should be about functionality (not looks) and the 2nd Amendment.
I have always said I will support any new regulation or legislation if I am CONVINCED it will do two things:
1) Actually make a difference (reason vs. emotion)
2) Does not violate the Constitution
KEITH
February 5th, 2013
10:02 pm
And I have an AK-47 locked in my safe. Along with a Benelli M-4. my HD weapon is a Glock 20 10mm 15 round mag, or clip to you liberals lol, with a tac light. Both the AK-47 and Benelli are fully loaded and ready to go, just punch in the 6 digit code and Im in. No 911 and waiting, hoping the cops arrive in time. When seconds count, cops are minutes away.
getalife
February 5th, 2013
10:03 pm
Is this sequester the last gop self inflicted bs?
I hope so.
We don’t need no stinking gop regulation.
Recon 0311 2533
February 5th, 2013
10:04 pm
0311/8541,
I was in 61-67 and my first duty assignment was M-3-6 where I was a BAR man. Great weapon until a few weeks later we were issued M-14’s and in my case M-14’s modified for full rock and roll. The gun would throw rounds off target unless you kept the gas cylinder plug tight. It was a good piece in early Vietnam as long as you understood that flaw.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 5th, 2013
10:04 pm
Recon:
“Most people who own AR’s do so as collectors or those who enjoy target shooting. My SR 556 sits in my locked safe until I take it to the range about twice a year. My home protection is a 12 gauge 870 tactical Remington and a .45 Springfield XD”
And I have my Remington 870 and my Glock Model 30 (.45 caliber).
Like minds think alike !
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 5th, 2013
10:05 pm
Recon:
I hear you ! My assigned MOS weapon in Nam was a Remington 700. Need I say more ?
KEITH
February 5th, 2013
10:05 pm
So according to Brocephus, if you have body work done on a Cobra it ceases at being a Cobra because it doesnt have the original body panels on it. Yea right. lol
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 5th, 2013
10:07 pm
First it’s keith, and now it’s KEITH.
It’s a good idea to check the spelling of your nom-de-blog — paying special attention to upper and lower case usage — after doing the sock-puppet thingie.
Just suggestin’.
oldguy
February 5th, 2013
10:07 pm
get,
Too busy to argue tonight, am making a CD for my car of Caroline Costa and Priscilla Betti hits.
sorry
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 5th, 2013
10:07 pm
KEITH:
Shhhhhhhhhh …………… don’t say AK-47.
You’ll get Brosephus going again ………………..
KEITH
February 5th, 2013
10:08 pm
i changed computers. im on a laptop now. sorry it bothers you
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
February 5th, 2013
10:08 pm
Kammie:
He just “modified” himself like that AK-47.
It’s still an AK and he’s still “kEiTh” !
KEITH
February 5th, 2013
10:09 pm
KEITH:
Shhhhhhhhhh …………… don’t say AK-47.
You’ll get Brosephus going again ………………..
ok sorry. i can admit when im wrong. see? lol
keith
February 5th, 2013
10:10 pm
better? man people let the tiniest things bother them.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 5th, 2013
10:10 pm
i changed computers. im on a laptop now. sorry it bothers you
Uh, huh.
And I have a date later this evening with Catrinel Menghia.
keith
February 5th, 2013
10:11 pm
enjoy your date.
keith
February 5th, 2013
10:13 pm
enjoy your date but i figured justin bieber to be more your type.
moonbat betty
February 5th, 2013
10:17 pm
kamchack’s antentae are erect.
flagboy?
February 5th, 2013
10:17 pm
Must be tough swallowing some things to toe the party line. . .
oldguy
February 5th, 2013
10:18 pm
Recon and 0311,
My emergency bedroom arm is a .357 snub nosed revolver; for a specific reason. When you are awakened in the middle of the night by a crash or a door opening you are half asleep and you don’t need to be thinking “is the safety on? is there a round in the chamber? is it cocked?” with the revolver it’s simply “point and shoot”.
For more serious defense I have a .45 Ruger 90 with a 12 rd magazine in the headboard of the bed.
Everything in my place is loaded, because an unloaded firearm is just a poor club.
keith
February 5th, 2013
10:18 pm
California is one of the worst places to own a business, they passed 8 hundered new laws just last year. So the Texas Governor is running ads in CA inviting businesses to move to TX. CA Governor is pissed at Texas blaming their Governor for the job losses. Gov Brown. look in the mirror.
keith
February 5th, 2013
10:20 pm
Recon and 0311,
My emergency bedroom arm is a .357 snub nosed revolver; for a specific reason. When you are awakened in the middle of the night by a crash or a door opening you are half asleep and you don’t need to be thinking “is the safety on? is there a round in the chamber? is it cocked?” with the revolver it’s simply “point and shoot”.
For more serious defense I have a .45 Ruger 90 with a 12 rd magazine in the headboard of the bed.
Everything in my place is loaded, because an unloaded firearm is just a poor club.
G20 is the same way. point and shoot.
kayaker 71
February 5th, 2013
10:20 pm
I really do pity the home intruder who comes into my home uninvited. You ought to see what a double 0 buck round does to the human body. Even one or two of the pellets will turn the perp around and usually knock them down and render them as a non threat. I am not sure why a 12ga should not be issued with the title to your home.
Doggone/GA
February 5th, 2013
10:21 pm
You know, this “AK47″ discussion is beginning to remind me of the old tramp that had a knife to sell. Had a good story too, said it was the original knife the was used to cut Jesus down from the cross. Only wanted $20 for it too. A bargain.
Of course, it had had 6 new blades, and 4 new handles since then…but it was the ORIGINAL!
keith
February 5th, 2013
10:21 pm
BTW I recently bought a Smith 686 plus 7 shot 2 1/2 inch barrel and put night sights on it.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 5th, 2013
10:21 pm
i figured justin bieber to be more your type.
And there’s your sign.
oldguy
February 5th, 2013
10:23 pm
Keith,
I see the Biebs is smoking a lot of weed lately, that’s why he lost Selena Gomez, you just can’t trust those Canooks!
keith
February 5th, 2013
10:27 pm
Bieber is the typical liberal leftwing hypcrite. He whines about the media following him around then goes out and gets a chrome plated Fisker. never get noticed in that lol
getalife
February 5th, 2013
10:30 pm
I only buy special forces guns and ammo.
Oscar
February 5th, 2013
10:31 pm
I once had a pair of steel framed glasses. Had to replace the left earpiece, then the rightafter another year. Then the lenses. And the nose pice and then the remaining part of the frame, and started over again. But I wore those glasses fifteen years before I ever had to buy a new pair.
moonbat betty
February 5th, 2013
10:31 pm
Sounds like keith and getalife should hang out. lol
oldguy
February 5th, 2013
10:32 pm
kayaker71,
long barrels are not good in tight places and around corners, ask our guys in Iraq. The British have the best idea, bullpup type weapons, very short but with an adequate barrel for accuracy.