Boy Scouts prepare to compromise on gay membership
Leaders of the Boy Scouts of America will vote this week on whether to ease the group’s long-standing, ironclad ban on allowing gay boys to become members and gay adults to serve as volunteers.
Under the proposal, organizations such as churches and civic clubs that sponsor Boy Scout troops and Cub Scout packs would be able to decide for themselves what policy to set. No local group would be forced to admit gay members and adults, in violation of its conscience or comfort zone; likewise, no group will be forced to ban or oust gay members and adults, which BSA policy now requires.
That seems like exactly the right compromise, given the range of geographic, religious and cultural communities that Scouting serves. After all, what works in Utah may not work in Minnesota. It also may not be as simple as it might sound — troops meet often in regional, state and even national events, creating the potential for continued cultural conflicts. However, part of the role of Scouting should be to teach young boys how to overcome such differences.
As a veteran of many a Scout jamboree, not to mention weekly meetings in dank church basements, I still feel a deep personal connection to and affection for the organization, and would welcome this important step forward. While others may not be as supportive, time does and must change things.
(Because some will ask, I got as far as Life Scout, one rank below Eagle, before our troop in suburban Pittsburgh fell apart quickly in what — in hindsight — may have been a covered-up abuse scandal. My military family was transferred to an airbase in Italy shortly thereafter, and that was the end of Scouting for my brother and I. But by then, to be honest, girls and other distractions had begun to pull my attention away anyway.)
– Jay Bookman
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453 comments Add your comment
Erwin's cat
February 4th, 2013
10:03 am
the dog – erwin-well yes that is different.
how so?
Brosephus™
February 4th, 2013
10:03 am
It’s about men’s penchant for sexual misbehavior.
Funny that there’s a site that actually ranks “The Hottest Teachers Caught Sleeping With Students”, and based on the first few photos, there’s not a single male teacher to be found on the list.
http://www.ranker.com/list/hottest-teachers-caught-sleeping-with-students/trent-walker
the dog
February 4th, 2013
10:04 am
erwin- I read and COMPREHEND what I write, try it sometime.
Aquagirl
February 4th, 2013
10:04 am
What’s next? Hairdressing and Interior Decorating merit badges?
I totally want to see a Parade-Frolicking badge. That’s a timeless ‘Merican value, right up there with fishing and hunting.
USinUK - former Girl Scout
February 4th, 2013
10:05 am
Brocephus – 10:03 – I blame Van Halen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4GZFbCqx18
off topic...Alabama will "never" change
February 4th, 2013
10:05 am
Alabama makes the ‘Terrible Ten’ because we are not fair
A nonpartisan research organization in Washington, the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, says Alabama’s system of taxation was placed on its list of states with the most regressive tax systems.
Why we are not surprised?
For years, tax experts have told the state’s legislative leaders that over-reliance on sales and unfairly distributed income taxes places the heaviest tax burden on those least able to pay. It also creates an upside-down system that makes budgeting difficult and revenue often inadequate for the needs of a modern state. At the same time, groups and individuals who are concerned with the social consequences of this system have cited Scripture and verse condemning how our state treats the “least of these.”
http://www.annistonstar.com/view/full_story/21591832/article-Alabama-makes-the-%E2%80%98Terrible-Ten%E2%80%99-because-we-are-not-fair?instance=home_opinion
barking frog
February 4th, 2013
10:06 am
Brosephus ™ 9:58
Where were these women when I was in school ? Oh yes,
they weren’t born yet…..
Brosephus™
February 4th, 2013
10:06 am
You give me statemets of Lincoln ………………….lying.
No, I gave you statements of Lincoln that shows how conflicted he truly was. Lincoln is not the example I would have used to drive that point home. There are likely much better choices available.
N-GA
February 4th, 2013
10:07 am
Jay – I was sent to a US government run boarding school near Paris, France (Dreux). Yes, it was so long ago that the US still had military bases in France. The students were from military, embassy and NGO families working in areas where the numbers of students was too low to justify a fully-staffed High School. There are so many, many stories to relate!
Thomas Heyward Jr
February 4th, 2013
10:07 am
Brosephus™
February 4th, 2013
9:23 am
If you are a black fraternaty you should have to admit a pecentage of whites that mirrors the campus racial makeup.
You can’t admit people who don’t apply to join your organization. That usually means they are not interested in joining. Why force someone to be a part of something they don’t want to belong to?
——————————————————————————————————————————–
.
That’s what Lestor Maddox was saying.
That chicken-frying resteraunt was HIS property.
Erwin's cat
February 4th, 2013
10:08 am
Adam – get a grip
I’m not gonna defend the church, but they have and continue to address the problem, but to suggest Catholics members every where had knowledge and ignored it is simply stupid…but I shouldn’t have expected anything else
Doggone/GA
February 4th, 2013
10:08 am
“It’s about men’s penchant for sexual misbehavior”
It isn’t even that. Sex is the weapon, but the “penchant” is for control over someone who is weaker. Rape..in any form, and regardless of the age of the victim, is a power play with sex as the weapon.
East Cobb RINO, Inc (LLC)
February 4th, 2013
10:08 am
Who cares about scouting anyway. We pulled our kid out of Cub Scouts when a Boy Scout bullied and assaulted his older brother at an official function in his official uniform. Because his dad was a troop leader there was no punishment. Just questions about what our kid did that deserved to be assaulted.
1811, etc.
February 4th, 2013
10:09 am
Another degree for the “frog in the kettle”.
USinUK - former Girl Scout
February 4th, 2013
10:10 am
” Because his dad was a troop leader there was no punishment. Just questions about what our kid did that deserved to be assaulted.”
oh, man … that’s awful
USinUK - former Girl Scout
February 4th, 2013
10:11 am
“Another degree for the “frog in the kettle”.”
yep. soon gays will be treated like real people with real rights and EVERYthing
Brosephus™
February 4th, 2013
10:12 am
USinner @ 10:05
frog @ 10:06
Adam
February 4th, 2013
10:14 am
Erwin’s cat: Having had knowledge is not what I care about. Having knowledge that they still, to this day, defend and protect the priests who engage in sexual assault is what I care about.
Continuing to remain a member despite all this is where I see more of a loyalty to false gods (the clergy and local groups) than faith. Or perhaps it is an attempt at societal acceptance. Part of the reason this country has separation of church and state is so that you don’t have to be brow-beaten into remaining with a corrupt religious group.
You don’t have to be a church goer to be faithful or to do good works. I see any monetary compensation to the Catholic Church as downright evil at this point, and any church going as being dishonest about Christianity in general.
Jerome Horwitz
February 4th, 2013
10:14 am
USinUK – That will indeed be a great day in America. Doubt that it will happen in my time as long as the attitudes exhibited on this blog continue. My optimism has decreased and my faith shaken by what I read posted by “Christains” regarding gay folks.
Brosephus™
February 4th, 2013
10:14 am
Heyward
The question would be whether they really wanted to go to Lester’s restaurant or not. Do you honestly know whether they did or did not? You’re getting closer though, I’ll give you that.
stands for decibels
February 4th, 2013
10:15 am
I got shipped off to a boarding school in Munich run by the Department of Defense.
Not anywhere near as bad as it might sound …. :>)
I *get* the potential-for-a-joke here, but having spent some very pleasant business and leisure time in München over the years, it doesn’t sound like bad time at all, whether spent as an adolescent or an adult.
Adam
February 4th, 2013
10:15 am
Doesn’t anyone realize that sexual assault is bad, but that you’re more likely to get exactly that result by forcing people to repress themselves into adulthood?
Doggone/GA
February 4th, 2013
10:17 am
“but that you’re more likely to get exactly that result by forcing people to repress themselves into adulthood?”
Have you got proof of that?
USinUK - former Girl Scout
February 4th, 2013
10:18 am
“Doubt that it will happen in my time as long as the attitudes exhibited on this blog continue.”
I disagree – I look at the amazing progress that’s already being made, with more people being comfortable being “out and proud” as well as the number of states that have legalized same-sex marriage. I think we’re making tremendous steps (but, I’m a glass half-full kinda gal)
Aquagirl
February 4th, 2013
10:19 am
yep. soon gays will be treated like real people with real rights and EVERYthing
And then society will collapse, just like our Military did. Oh, wait….
Erwin's cat
February 4th, 2013
10:19 am
Adam – I get it….you don’t like all Catholics because of the behavior of a few…I get it.
At least admit your own bias against the church.
FWIW I was raised catholic, but don’t associate with the church and haven’t for quite sometime..all religions are a bit of a reach to me, but it works for some people and I don’t belittle them for it and don’t broad brush the majority because of the actions of a few.
Adam
February 4th, 2013
10:23 am
Doggone: Have you got proof of that?
Of repressed sexuality resulting in more bad behavior than would otherwise exist (statistically)? Why yes.
You can start here for a gentle introduction to the topic of sexual repression and its effects:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sex-dawn/201004/sexual-repression-the-malady-considers-itself-the-remedy
Then if you wish, you can move on to reading the book “Sex At Dawn” which details some of the underlying scientific realities.
And if you are interested further, after that, I would be happy to recommend more reading.
This isn’t my first rodeo on this topic, either. I do wonder sometimes why the questioning continues. Is it because I told Thulsa he was right that one time to shut him up? He’ll get his commuppance. I’m not done with that topic either.
RB from Gwinnett
February 4th, 2013
10:23 am
“That seems like exactly the right compromise”
What could possibly go wrong with allowing gay men to hang out with young boys?…. Geez….
And for the record, gay boys have been in the scouts for as long as there have been scouts. I’d prefer a “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy for the boys, but for the adults?????
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
February 4th, 2013
10:23 am
Heyward — The Civil Rights movement / Lester Maddox was over 25+ years ago. He lost CRM won; don’t you think it’s time to get over it? Just let it go man, just let it go……
=====
Spin that any way you want. It’s the reason I am no longer a member. It is shameful to remain part of a group that de facto condones sexual assault.
Adam, speaking of which, I saw a movie on Showtime over the weekend called The Magdalene Sisters — it was awful! After watching that movie, and finding out that this was something that REALLY HAPPENED to women at that time; I have decided to embrace a non-denominational relationship towards God. I don’t want any part of anymore “organized religions”. Too much dirt, blood and wrong have been done in the name of religion — I’m through with it.
skipper
February 4th, 2013
10:24 am
Gay scout creed:
“On my honor
to do my best
to do my duty
to bust that booty……………..”
Comedy at all times, folks.gotta hve fun.
Nobody will truthfully answer, but REALLY…HONEST QUESTION…. what is the difference between a gay scout and another guy at 13 in the same tent, and letting a boy and girl of that age be in the same tent…………………somebody wanna explain????
the dog
February 4th, 2013
10:24 am
I will admit my bias against the catholic church. One would have to be illiterate and living under a rock not to know of the sexual abuse coverup and the ongoing sexual abuse. The church continues to move priests around instead of defrocking them and putting them in prison. So erwin if you are okay with that, I feel sorry for you.
Adam
February 4th, 2013
10:25 am
Erwin: At least admit your own bias against the church.
Did I not?
Glad you are on the same page as I am for the most part. I no more blame people who are personally religious than I blame energy workers for power outages. It’s mismanagement at the top and treating employees like crap that causes that stuff. Sadly, the difference between religious organizations and private employment is that in this day and age you have more of a choice to leave your religion than you do to leave your job.
USinUK - former Girl Scout
February 4th, 2013
10:26 am
“FWIW I was raised catholic, but don’t associate with the church and haven’t for quite sometime”
the largest religion in the world … lapsed catholics.
barking frog
February 4th, 2013
10:26 am
Erwin’s cat
FWIW I was raised catholic, but don’t associate with the church and haven’t for quite sometime..all religions are a bit of a reach to me, but it works for some people and I don’t belittle them for it and don’t broad brush the majority because of the actions of a few.
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………
The Pope covered up for pedophile priests. Until the members of the Church
begin a movement to defrock the Pope, they deserve to be painted evil with
the same broad brush.
tom gambeski
February 4th, 2013
10:26 am
To Taxpayer,
. … _._
the dog
February 4th, 2013
10:27 am
DDR-I am the same way about organized religion. What started me down that path are the huge, empty, tax free buildings sitting empty except for a few hours on Sunday and Wednesday while homeless people are freezing to death.
Adam
February 4th, 2013
10:27 am
they deserve to be painted evil with
the same broad brush.
I wouldn’t go that far. I would say that it’s a shame and not based on faith to remain in “the flock”
Oscar
February 4th, 2013
10:28 am
Strange world we live in. When I was young and in the Boy Scouts that was before anyone would ever have thought of coming out. I guess there were gays in grade school and high school when I was there but they didn’t admit it.
Don’t know how I would have felt knowing that some of the kids I knew were gay, especially on overnight trips scouting and with the baskeball team.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 4th, 2013
10:28 am
skipper — “Nobody will truthfully answer, but REALLY…HONEST QUESTION…. what is the difference between a gay scout and another guy at 13 in the same tent, and letting a boy and girl of that age be in the same tent…………………somebody wanna explain????”
You mean ‘nobody will answer my question in the way that I want them to answer?’
If you want a REALLY HONEST answer, then be REALLY HONEST about your aims and objectives in asking it in the first place.
USinUK - former Girl Scout
February 4th, 2013
10:30 am
“And for the record, gay boys have been in the scouts for as long as there have been scouts”
and, again, see my earlier story about the boy who qualified as an eagle scout, but was refused because he was gay. sorry, but that ain’t right.
“What could possibly go wrong with allowing gay men to hang out with young boys?”
nothing that couldn’t go wrong with allowing straight men to hang out with young boys.
Erwin's cat
February 4th, 2013
10:30 am
the dog – The church continues to move priests around instead of defrocking them and putting them in prison.So erwin if you are okay with that, I feel sorry for you.
how sensational….seriously, I don’t blame the Sunday church goer like you apparently do.
Oscar
February 4th, 2013
10:30 am
the dog
Always have wondered why churches don’t open their gyms and fellowship halls to homeless people during freezing weather.
Doggone/GA
February 4th, 2013
10:30 am
“This isn’t my first rodeo on this topic, either. I do wonder sometimes why the questioning continues”
Because when you make an absolute statement you make in incorrect statement. Repression does not ALWAYS lead to “that result”…it’s not even “more than likely” What is at least equally “more than likely” is that people who cannot come to terms with their own problems will join an organization – such as a celebate priesthood or brotherhood – HOPING that the rigid rules of such an order will enable them to get their impulses under control. And has been shown with the Catholic priesthood, it far too often DOESN’T.
But repression ALONE is not the cause of such behavior, and can be a result of an attempt to get such behaviors under control.
Oscar
February 4th, 2013
10:32 am
Skipper – for one thing, 13 year old girls can get pregnant.
the dog
February 4th, 2013
10:32 am
I do blame the Sunday church goer if they are part of the coverup and ongoing abuse. Of course I do.
kayaker 71
February 4th, 2013
10:32 am
Granny, 9:58,
And there is not a damn thing in all of that rhetoric that states that you have to be tolerant of other people’s sexual choice. There are lots of people who still believe that homosexuality does not represent a moral choice. They have a right to that opinion just as you a have a right to yours. Why in the hell do liberals constantly believe that no one has a right to an opinion but them?
skipper
February 4th, 2013
10:32 am
Joe Hussein Mama,
Nope, nobody answered the question period………..no matter who asked it or how. Again, (answer it your way if you want) what is the difference between a 13 year old gay scout in the tent with a boy and a 13 year old straight boy in the tent with a girl (say on some “scout-jubilee” or something. why don’t you answer that?
barking frog
February 4th, 2013
10:33 am
Adam
I wouldn’t go that far. I would say that it’s a shame and not based on faith to remain in “the flock”
………………………………………………………………..
Child rape is a crime. Conspiracy to cover it up is a crime. It is a sin and evil by Bible
standards.
A little bit more than a shame.
Thomas Heyward Jr
February 4th, 2013
10:34 am
DebbieDoRight – A Do Right Woman
February 4th, 2013
10:23 am
Heyward — The Civil Rights movement / Lester Maddox was over 25+ years ago. He lost CRM won; don’t you think it’s time to get over it? Just let it go man, just let it go……
———————————————————————————
.
I’ll never let the right to my personal property go.
Sorry.
.
Get back to me AFTER the FedCoats seize your 401K————
.
The U.S. Consumer Financial Protection Bureau is weighing whether it should take on a role in helping Americans manage the $19.4 trillion they have put into retirement savings, a move that would be the agency’s first foray into consumer investments.
That’s one of the things we’ve been exploring and are interested in in terms of whether and what authority we have,” bureau director Richard Cordray said in an interview. He didn’t provide additional details.
The bureau’s core concern is that many Americans, notably those from the retiring Baby Boom generation, may fall prey to financial scams, according to three people briefed on the CFPB’s deliberations who asked not to be named because the matter is still under discussion.
The Securities and Exchange Commission and the Department of Labor are the main regulators of U.S. retirement savings vehicles and funds. However, the consumer bureau — established by the 2010 Dodd-Frank Act — sees itself as a potential catalyst for promoting a coherent policy across the government, the people said.
.
.
lol
the dog
February 4th, 2013
10:34 am
This country could suddenly have lots and lots of cash if churches were taxed. Tax all the property except for the sanctuary, tax the gyms, church schools, the mansion the minister lives in, etc.
USinUK - former Girl Scout
February 4th, 2013
10:35 am
“other people’s sexual choice”
of course, the fact that homosexuality isn’t a CHOICE seems to have eluded you …
Granny Godzilla
February 4th, 2013
10:37 am
Skipper
Nobody will truthfully answer, but REALLY…HONEST QUESTION…. what is the difference between a gay scout and another guy at 13 in the same tent, and letting a boy and girl of that age be in the same tent…………………somebody wanna explain????
.
.
.
The difference? The number of penises in the tent.
.
Jerome Horwitz
February 4th, 2013
10:37 am
USinUKc- You’re right, great strides have been made regarding rights for gay folks. Attended the Gay Pride parade and came away energized at the love and respect from many. Yeah, there were some groups over the top, but, on the whole a celebration of respect for everyone. I need to realize that there will always be narrow minded bigots like those who continually revel in their ignorance/arrogance. Just need to tune them out and focus on those moving forward.
Erwin's cat
February 4th, 2013
10:37 am
the dog – Wednesday while homeless people are freezing to death.
Let’s completely discount all the good work and charetiy for the homeless and weak that the church has done because of your slanted idea of justice for a few…burn’em all. Do you feel equal outrage towards Penn State grads too?
Corbin Sharpe. I think, therefore I am...I think.
February 4th, 2013
10:37 am
“What could possibly go wrong with allowing gay men to hang out with young boys?”
This statement supposes that Gay men can’t control their urges. It also doesn’t take into account that gay men might not prefer young boys to grown men as a choice of partners.
It also doesn’t take into account that men who prefer young boys are most always straight and always pedophiles. All in all the above statement shows a lack of understanding of what “Gay” means and is blatantly bigoted.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 4th, 2013
10:37 am
skipper — “Joe Hussein Mama, Nope, nobody answered the question period………..no matter who asked it or how.”
Wrong. You got at least two answers. You clearly just didn’t like them.
“Again, (answer it your way if you want) what is the difference between a 13 year old gay scout in the tent with a boy and a 13 year old straight boy in the tent with a girl (say on some “scout-jubilee” or something. why don’t you answer that?”
Why don’t YOU answer it yourself, since you seem to have some sort of lecturey response all prepared for us already?
Oscar
February 4th, 2013
10:38 am
Granny – and the number of people in the tent who can get pregnant.
indigo
February 4th, 2013
10:39 am
Any group that allows openly gay men to be “volunteers” is just asking for trouble. I don’t think abused boys would take much comfort in knowing these gay men were admitted because of political correctness.
Its true. Common sense really is becoming less and less common.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 4th, 2013
10:40 am
E. Cat — “Let’s completely discount all the good work and charetiy for the homeless and weak that the church has done because of your slanted idea of justice for a few…burn’em all.”
Not to be contentious, but how much good work and charity for the homeless does it take, exactly, to balance out with just one kid molested by a priest?
If we’re going to engage in some sort of moral calculus here, then we should certainly operationalize our terms first.
the dog
February 4th, 2013
10:40 am
erwin-please tell us all the catholic church has done for the poor and homeless in Atlanta. We’ll wait.
Jerome Horwitz
February 4th, 2013
10:40 am
Yakker – I respect your right to be a bigoted, ignorant, self important blowhard.
USinUK - former Girl Scout
February 4th, 2013
10:41 am
” I need to realize that there will always be narrow minded bigots like those who continually revel in their ignorance/arrogance. Just need to tune them out and focus on those moving forward.”
exactly – there are still racists … there are still sexists … but we as a society have come a long way. We have a ways to go (we’re not there, yet), but I think the world is a much better place for our kids than it was when I was a child.
Aquagirl
February 4th, 2013
10:41 am
Why in the hell do liberals constantly believe that no one has a right to an opinion but them?
Maybe because our opinion doesn’t equate to “not exist.” Your OPINION on homosexuality is your business, you certainly have a right to that. What you insist upon is the exclusion of gay people from things like the Boy Scouts, marriage, etc. Nobody is obligated to live their life based on your opinion.
You can’t do that any more. And that, of course, is why you’re so angry.
USinUK - former Girl Scout
February 4th, 2013
10:42 am
Hi Corbin!!
how’s the knee??
Ronald Reagan
February 4th, 2013
10:42 am
Craigslist will now have to add a heading for Scout outfits for sale.
Fat Freddie's Cat
February 4th, 2013
10:43 am
While we’re bashing the Catholic Church let’s not forget about their role in helping Nazi’s escape to South America. Churches have a checkered past – for every good deed you can probably find at least a couple instances of outright nasty actions.
Towncrier
February 4th, 2013
10:44 am
“While others may not be as supportive, time does and must change things.”
Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil.
“Bigotry is still bigotry. Hatred and prejudice are still hatred and prejudice.”
People don’t choose their ethnicity, Sherlock. Not can they change it by choice. But they do, in the end, choose whether or not to be homosexual. Equating racism with not accepting homosexuality has got to be the biggest piece of sophistry ever foisted upon the American people.
“Liberalism has never worked, but has always been instrumental in ruining values that have worked and remain timeless in its essence.”
The modern sort of liberalism – that stupidly equates “LGBT” and abortion “rights” (things about which people have a choice) with laws aimed at removing discrimination around race, age and gender (things about which people do NOT have a choice).
the dog
February 4th, 2013
10:44 am
To be perfectly fair, there is a big episcopal church in Buckhead that discontinued housing the homeless because the school rooms were begininning to smell like, well homeless people. The church? St. Phillips, sitting on gazillions of tax free property.
Oscar
February 4th, 2013
10:44 am
Gay men are no more likely to molest boys than straight men. Adults who molest boys are pedoplies. And they are no more prevalent among gays than among straights.
Vashtai
February 4th, 2013
10:45 am
You know, Boy Scouts founder Sir Robert Baden Powell was, more than likely, a closeted Homo. Not that that will matter to you men who think Gay=Pedophile. Read the article published last year in the NYTimes:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/20/opinion/scoutings-gay-founder.html
Stevie Ray
February 4th, 2013
10:47 am
Boy Scouts is awesome program which when I participated, most meetings/clubhouses resided in a church..
About time these folks learned the difference between gay and pedofilia…simple measures can be taken to minimize exposure to the latter.
Granny Godzilla
February 4th, 2013
10:47 am
Towncrier
“But they do, in the end, choose whether or not to be homosexual”
No more than you have CHOSEN to be or not to be heterosexual.
Jerome Horwitz
February 4th, 2013
10:47 am
TC – Now how many times you spout that crud Sherlock being gay is not a choice. Just ask a gay person if they had a choice which team would they play on. But you continue on your merry way in BS Land.
Towncrier
February 4th, 2013
10:48 am
“It also doesn’t take into account that men who prefer young boys are most always straight and always pedophiles.”
Please explain to all of us how a man who “prefers young boys” is “straight”, genius. You do know what the “B” in LGBT means, right?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 4th, 2013
10:48 am
People don’t choose their ethnicity, Sherlock. Not can they change it by choice. But they do, in the end, choose whether or not to be homosexual.
And you know this because you read it on the internet? Or because Marcus Bachmann told you? Are you applying the same “scientific” standards that you are applying to climate change or is this another in “this we know that cannot be confused by facts”
Joe Hussein Mama
February 4th, 2013
10:48 am
Towncrier — “But they do, in the end, choose whether or not to be homosexual.”
Your conclusive evidence for this assertion, please, “Sherlock.”
USinUK - former Girl Scout
February 4th, 2013
10:48 am
“While we’re bashing the Catholic Church let’s not forget about their role in helping Nazi’s escape to South America.”
and generally colluding with the Nazis in Europe.
see “The Nasty Girl” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nasty_Girl
Adam
February 4th, 2013
10:48 am
Doggone: Repression does not ALWAYS lead to “that result”…it’s not even “more than likely” What is at least equally “more than likely”
Except I did not say “always” nor did I say “more than likely.”
the dog
February 4th, 2013
10:49 am
Jerome-are you worried about your sexuality?
Adam
February 4th, 2013
10:50 am
Child rape is a crime. Conspiracy to cover it up is a crime. It is a sin and evil by Bible
standards.
Yeah, except that church goers and members are not part of the conspiracy, but instead offering de facto acceptance and perhaps even condoning it. That is what I calla shame, and a sham.
Stevie Ray
February 4th, 2013
10:50 am
Am I the only one who thinks that homosexuality has likely been around as the hetero version?
Another example of monotheism doing everything possible to keep our predictable social culture development retarded..
USinUK - former Girl Scout
February 4th, 2013
10:50 am
““But they do, in the end, choose whether or not to be homosexual.””
as opposed to … ??? what, getting married and having 2.5 kids and a dog, living in suburbia and making everyone miserable because they’re living a lie?
Jerome Horwitz
February 4th, 2013
10:50 am
It’s Bi-sexual fool.
skipper
February 4th, 2013
10:50 am
Joe Hussein Mama,
Are you saying that even at age 13 boys and girls (at 4-h camp, for instance) should be in the same bunk? You are still dancin’………….and you have not answered.
ATL Born and Raised
February 4th, 2013
10:51 am
Why in the hell do liberals constantly believe that no one has a right to an opinion but them?
You absolutely have the right to an opinion. What you don’t have is the right not to be criticized for having that opinion.
Oscar
February 4th, 2013
10:52 am
Towncrier – do a little research on pedophilies and you will learn something. Gay men are not more likely to molest boys. They are less likely to.
Adam
February 4th, 2013
10:52 am
Towncrier: But they do, in the end, choose whether or not to be homosexual.
No, they do not.
Brosephus™
February 4th, 2013
10:52 am
Get back to me AFTER the FedCoats seize your 401K————
For quite some time now, I’ve been enviously looking in from the outside at what is easily the best 401(k) retirement plan in the country – The U.S. Government’s $254 billion Thrift Savings Plan (TSP).
Several years ago, I had the good fortune to get to know Mike Causey, senior correspondent for Federal News Radio. He was extolling the many benefits of the TSP so I thought I’d check it out, and what I discovered blew me away.
[...]
Costs really matter – the 0.03 percent annual expense ratio compares to the 401(k) industry average expenses of 2.00 percent, as noted by a recent LA Times article by fellow blogger Kathy Kristof. To put the costs in perspective, the average 401(k) plan costs 67 times the amount of the TSP, and even my own portfolio is about five times more expensive. Hence the envy I have for this plan.
—————————
But the TSP is better than 99.44% of civilian 401(k) plans that private employers offer. Like 401(k) plans, the TSP is a defined contribution plan that allows elective deferrals. The TSP shares the same contribution limits as 401(k) plans, and participation is optional. While matching contributions are authorized for certain military specialties, none is currently being funded.
Tiny costs, simple plan
What makes the TSP superior is its simplicity coupled with minuscule costs. All of the options in the TSP have annual administrative expenses of just 0.03%. That’s just $30 a year on a $100,000 account. Compare that to fees that could exceed $1,000 per year for 401(k) plans holding traditional mutual funds.
The TSP isn’t by any means perfect, but I’ll take my low cost retirement fund over paying out more than I keep over my lifetime anyday.
Per John Bogle, founder of Vanguard Mutual Fund:
So if I do your average, what percentage of my net growth is going to fees in a 401(k) plan?
Well, it’s awesome. Let me give you a little longer-term example. The example I use in my book is an individual who is 20 years old today starting to accumulate for retirement. That person has about 45 years to go before retirement — 20 to 65 — and then, if you believe the actuarial tables, another 20 years to go before death mercifully brings his or her life to a close. So that’s 65 years of investing. If you invest $1,000 at the beginning of that time and earn 8 percent, that $1,000 will grow in that 65-year period to around $140,000.
Now, the financial system — the mutual fund system in this case — will take about two and a half percentage points out of that return, so you will have a gross return of 8 percent, a net return of 5.5 percent, and your $1,000 will grow to approximately $30,000. One hundred ten thousand dollars goes to the financial system and $30,000 to you, the investor. Think about that. That means the financial system put up zero percent of the capital and took zero percent of the risk and got almost 80 percent of the return, and you, the investor in this long time period, an investment lifetime, put up 100 percent of the capital, took 100 percent of the risk, and got only a little bit over 20 percent of the return. That is a financial system that is failing investors because of those costs of financial advice and brokerage, some hidden, some out in plain sight, that investors face today. So the system has to be fixed.
I’ve got to unscramble what you just said. You said that in the case of the $1,000 invested for 65 years, the financial system is taking 80 percent of the money. But most of us aren’t doing that. In the first place, at 20 we’re out spending it; we’re not putting it away. But set that aside. We’re really talking about people who are probably saving from 35 or 40 or 45 at best for retirement at 55, 60 or 65. and they are plunking the money away into 401(k)s. I’m just asking you, in that system, roughly what chunk of it are people getting back themselves out of their gains, and what chunk of that is going to go to the financial system for managing their money?
Well, in the long run, it’s 80 percent to the financial system, 20 percent to you. In a given year, it’s about 80 percent to you and 20 percent to the financial system, so if you look at 10 years or 15 years, you’re probably talking about 60 percent to you and 40 percent to the financial system maybe over 20 years, something like that. But the longer the period, the greater the impact of that tyranny of compounding costs is.
RB from Gwinnett
February 4th, 2013
10:52 am
This is crazy. If I’m reading this right, the leftwind nuts here are attacking the Catholic church for their preists molesting young boys out of one side of their mouth while praising the Boy Scouts for letting homosexual men be scout leaders. Does that make ANY sense?
indigo
February 4th, 2013
10:52 am
Brosephus – 10:03
Unfortunately, when I was in school, all my teachers looked like Ma Kettle.
Stevie Ray
February 4th, 2013
10:52 am
Joe Hussein Mama
February 4th, 2013
10:48 am
I’d love to see that documentation as well.
Marty Huggins'
February 4th, 2013
10:52 am
the dog
February 4th, 2013
10:34 am
Lets hope they would bring in a lot of money.
Because if our church was taxed at any type of substantial rate we would not be able to do many of the programs that we carry on 7 days a week. Ranging from a sexual abuse counseling group to AA and DAA groups for free. We also have a day care service that gives 7 children per age group free childcare for needy families. We wish we could do more but currently that is all we can sufficiently afford.
Also I cannot speak for others but my “priest” does not live in anything considered to be a mansion unless one sees a 2/1 as a mansion.
We all know some religions are bad and some churches are bad.
Being as absolute as you are about churches makes you appear as close minded and ignorant as those you speak so critically of.
Brosephus™
February 4th, 2013
10:52 am
Didn’t put the link for the Bogle interview in…
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/retirement/interviews/bogle.html
Jerome Horwitz
February 4th, 2013
10:53 am
dog – not a bit. Focused on the opposite sex since day one. Do happen to know many gay folk and don’t like it when thier rights are stepped on. What about you?
Stevie Ray
February 4th, 2013
10:54 am
Brosephus™
February 4th, 2013
10:52 am
I didn’t realize gay scout leaders were so preoccupied with 401K outcomes…:-)
Joe Hussein Mama
February 4th, 2013
10:54 am
skipper — “Joe Hussein Mama, Are you saying that even at age 13 boys and girls (at 4-h camp, for instance) should be in the same bunk?”
Didn’t say it, didn’t think it.
“You are still dancin’……”
I can’t be dancing since I didn’t bother to answer your question.
“….and you have not answered.”
Just in case you haven’t been listening the other times I replied to you, I don’t *plan* to answer your question. I don’t owe you an answer and you’re not getting one from me. Clear?
So answer your question your ownself and give us that big honking lecture you seem to be dying to blast us with.
Towncrier
February 4th, 2013
10:54 am
“Now how many times you spout that crud Sherlock being gay is not a choice. Just ask a gay person if they had a choice which team would they play on.”
It IS a choice in the end. People, because of their environment and events that occur when they were children, may be disposed to certain kinds of behavior. For instance, I saw a Dr. Phil show recently where this kid who was basically raised to be obese by his mother had grown to over 800 pounds as the age of 22. He is now getting the help he needs. If anyone can’t see that, for example, sticking one’s p*nis in the backside of another man is both unnatural and disgusting, then I don’t know how to help you. You are deluded.
Adam
February 4th, 2013
10:55 am
RB: Does that make ANY sense?
Yes. But you clearly can’t see the difference. For example, your head will explode now if I say that openly gay men should be allowed to be priests.
You will never understand why this is different than sexual assault, because you think gay means “molests little boys.” You think those things are the same. You see no difference. And no amount of explaining will get you to understand the wide chasm between the two.
Brosephus™
February 4th, 2013
10:55 am
indigo
I wouldn’t have dared to think about any teacher in that manner, regardless to how she looked.
Towncrier
February 4th, 2013
10:55 am
“No, they do not.”
YES, they do.